[email protected]

hi faith,
i am curious about a few more things. ( i asked you the other question about
child-centered parenting on the list) to let you know where i am coming
from, let me explain. i am a child of a retired la leche league leader (dr.
sears, nursing on demand, loving guidance discipline, etc) and have happily
raised my babies the same way. i am also a Christian and believe my
parenting style is supported by Scripture, as you do. since this is one of
those issues that people get heated about, i dont often pursue a discussion
about it with the people that i know who have mentioned this method in real
face to face. maybe i should but i have been uncomfortable thinking that
they may assume i am criticizing them personally or that i am interested in
trying it out-- neither of which is the case! i thought maybe since you
didnt shy away from all the heat on the list you would be willing to explain
over email the way that you see a few things. just to satisfy my
wonderment!!

first: you wrote: <<Although I certainly do not feed-on-demand>>
i wonder, what does your view see that is so shockingly wrong with following
the cues that God has given the baby to tell us of her needs?

and second: <<But I always compare it to what Scripture has to say.>>
since Scripture can be so easily used out of context to suit the defender, on
whose interpretation do you rest your trust?

thanks for sharing,
erin

faith buckley

Erin,
Please don't take my silence as if I am not going to answer. I am just trying to
get my info together in order to answer your questions adequately. :-) Thanks
for your patience!

Faith

Annette Naake

Sandra wrote....

"You guys are so nice!!

I told Marty, when he was in that phase, that he needed not to be a
bullshitter and if he was just going to make stuff up pretty soon people
wouldn't have faith in his word, and since I didn't want him to have to
undo
a bad reputation I wanted him to start ONLY saying things he could back
with
fact, starting right then.

He took it okay. "

Sandra

Sandra, I don't post much but I enjoy your ruthlessly candid contributions.
I thought this was kind of a funny look at "what it would be like to have
Sandra for your mom"!

When my kids ask me questions, I often respond by asking them to tell me
what THEY think. Sometimes they know the answers already. Other times,
they want to know something other than what they've asked. A question about
where the dinosaurs went or why does John's dad not live with him any more
might really be a way to get into a larger topic. If you always supply the
facts right away, or find an encyclopedia and point out how wrong-headed
their ideas are, you might be shutting down discussion. Instead, if you
say, "what do YOU think? ... Really?" you can often have an illuminating
talk.

I don't mean to be obstructionist... if Tony were trying to add up a bunch
of numbers and just asked me a series of addition facts, for instance, or
how to spell words, I wouldn't respond with a question more than once.

For example with my kids, 9 and 5, if they ask how much money I earn (which
comes up from time to time), I sometimes respond by asking what they think I
earn. Their response gives me a way to frame my answer in a manner that
makes sense to them. If outright contradiction makes you crazy, this might
avert it.

But if kids really want to know what YOU think, they'll insist you tell
them.

Annette














_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls!�Get MSN Broadband.
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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/3/02 4:23:27 PM, naake1999@... writes:

<< For example with my kids, 9 and 5, if they ask how much money I earn
(which
comes up from time to time), I sometimes respond by asking what they think I
earn. >>

Some people are so afraid of a bad guess that this would shut down
conversation. It would have with me, when I was a kid. (Maybe now!)

I'd rather answer directly and THEN try to figure out what they want to know,
personally.

<<Sandra, I don't post much but I enjoy your ruthlessly candid contributions.
I thought this was kind of a funny look at "what it would be like to have
Sandra for your mom"!>>

Yeah. Well... <g>

Close friends, too. They are in constant peril of a candid analysis if they
ask me anything.
On the other hand, too many people in the world have not one single source
for analysis, candid or otherwise, and are just muddling along.

Sandra

Nora or Devereaux Cannon

Just to be a little contrairian - I try to never answer a kid's
question with a question. It punishes curiosity with a pop quiz.
I am not above the occasional incredulous "Huh?" when asked why
the little green men kidnapped me last night - or the indirect
framing response like "How much do I make - enough to keep you in
candy bars and dance lessons. Why do you ask?" But I try to
give some answer first.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Annette Naake" <naake1999@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:22 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] questions


|
| Sandra wrote....
|
| "You guys are so nice!!
|
| I told Marty, when he was in that phase, that he needed not
to be a
| bullshitter and if he was just going to make stuff up pretty
soon people
| wouldn't have faith in his word, and since I didn't want him
to have to
| undo
| a bad reputation I wanted him to start ONLY saying things he
could back
| with
| fact, starting right then.
|
| He took it okay. "
|
| Sandra
|
| Sandra, I don't post much but I enjoy your ruthlessly candid
contributions.
| I thought this was kind of a funny look at "what it would be
like to have
| Sandra for your mom"!
|
| When my kids ask me questions, I often respond by asking them
to tell me
| what THEY think. Sometimes they know the answers already.
Other times,
| they want to know something other than what they've asked. A
question about
| where the dinosaurs went or why does John's dad not live with
him any more
| might really be a way to get into a larger topic. If you
always supply the
| facts right away, or find an encyclopedia and point out how
wrong-headed
| their ideas are, you might be shutting down discussion.
Instead, if you
| say, "what do YOU think? ... Really?" you can often have an
illuminating
| talk.
|
| I don't mean to be obstructionist... if Tony were trying to add
up a bunch
| of numbers and just asked me a series of addition facts, for
instance, or
| how to spell words, I wouldn't respond with a question more
than once.
|
| For example with my kids, 9 and 5, if they ask how much money I
earn (which
| comes up from time to time), I sometimes respond by asking what
they think I
| earn. Their response gives me a way to frame my answer in a
manner that
| makes sense to them. If outright contradiction makes you crazy,
this might
| avert it.
|
| But if kids really want to know what YOU think, they'll insist
you tell
| them.
|
| Annette
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
_________________________________________________________________
| Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
| http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
|
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|

Stephanie Elms

Funny that this topic came up...on our way to church (we just started going to a UU
church and are really enjoying it), Jason (5.5 yo) started saying that
"4+1=5, right?", "5+1=6, right?", "6+1=7, right?" When we got out of the car, he asked if
I knew what 7+5 was. I replied "what is it?". He said 12 and I said "you're right!".
He got this strange look on his face and then asked me "If you knew what the answer
was, why didn't you say so?". I asked him if he really had wanted me to answer him
and he said yes. I apologized and told him that next time I would give him the answer.

I have thought about this and I realized that when I was little, I asked my mom these
types of questions to show off what I knew. My mom was very much the type that if I
asked a question, like how to spell something, she would tell me to go look it up.
It was very eye-opening to realize that Jason was really curious to know if I knew
the answer! It was not to show off for me...kind of cool that he does not feel the
need to perform....also pretty cool that he was just pondering how numbers combine
because he wanted to. This topic came out of the blue while we were driving. :o)

Stephanie E.

kayb85

I remember once asking my grandpa about what school was like when he
was a little boy. He mentioned something about square roots, and I
asked him to explain square roots to me. He wouldn't, because he
didn't want to teach me something that my teachers hadn't taught me
yet. It might mess me up. Same thing with cursive handwriting. My
mom wouldn't show me how to write in cursive even when I really
wanted to know, because I would learn in school "when it was time".:(
Sheila


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Stephanie Elms"
<stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
> Funny that this topic came up...on our way to church (we just
started going to a UU
> church and are really enjoying it), Jason (5.5 yo) started saying
that
> "4+1=5, right?", "5+1=6, right?", "6+1=7, right?" When we got out
of the car, he asked if
> I knew what 7+5 was. I replied "what is it?". He said 12 and I
said "you're right!".
> He got this strange look on his face and then asked me "If you knew
what the answer
> was, why didn't you say so?". I asked him if he really had wanted
me to answer him
> and he said yes. I apologized and told him that next time I would
give him the answer.
>
> I have thought about this and I realized that when I was little, I
asked my mom these
> types of questions to show off what I knew. My mom was very much
the type that if I
> asked a question, like how to spell something, she would tell me to
go look it up.
> It was very eye-opening to realize that Jason was really curious to
know if I knew
> the answer! It was not to show off for me...kind of cool that he
does not feel the
> need to perform....also pretty cool that he was just pondering how
numbers combine
> because he wanted to. This topic came out of the blue while we were
driving. :o)
>
> Stephanie E.

Stephanie Elms

> I remember once asking my grandpa about what school was like when he
> was a little boy. He mentioned something about square roots, and I
> asked him to explain square roots to me. He wouldn't, because he
> didn't want to teach me something that my teachers hadn't taught me
> yet. It might mess me up. Same thing with cursive handwriting. My
> mom wouldn't show me how to write in cursive even when I really
> wanted to know, because I would learn in school "when it was time".:(
> Sheila

I had a friend like that. She was telling me during the summer that her
son was so excited that he would get to learn how to read next year in
1st grade. And then there was the time at the pool when Jason used a
word (can't remember what it was) and a boy (who was about 8 or 9) looked
at me and asked where he learned that because it was a was a word that
he should not learn until 2nd grade. sigh.

I love that when we were up on ebay today (looking for Bionicles), he
wanted to figure out how much the bid was and asked about the numbers, so
we talked about how the decimal point divided the dollars and the cents. I
love that when I was following directions to the pumpkin farm, I set my trip
odometer to track the mileage and he wanted to know what it was tracking and we
wound up talking about tenths of a mile. I love that when he was playing around
with a calculator he got a negative number and wanted to know what the line in
front meant. And that the next day he was still asking questions about it. I
love the way his mind works and that he just ponders these things.

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/3/02 6:00:08 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< Same thing with cursive handwriting. My
mom wouldn't show me how to write in cursive even when I really
wanted to know, because I would learn in school "when it was time".:( >>

I had learned to write my name in cursive before I went to school.

I got in trouble for doing it. Trouble to the extent that the teacher told
me not to do it anymore, to print. And I had to erase it and re-write my
name in printing.

Kirby went to a party Saturday night. He only knew the hostess, from his
karate class. It was from 6:00 to 10:00, and his dad picked him up right on
the button.

It was a Halloween party, he had been told. He was one of two people in
costume. He had dressed as a medieval king. He had his dad's broadsword.

I asked him later how it had gone. He said the kids were all very much
schoolkids. They didn't talk about much of anything, and that each seemed to
have one small narrow role in the group. The one who was the toughest guy,
the bully of the group, mentioned more than once, to Kirby and about him,
that Kirby could probably kick his ass.

Great. So there he was, over-dressed, over-dimensional, and assured that he
was out-alphaing the alpha male. Not much to say or do at that point.

Keith said when he went in that the kids were sitting around watching a
dog-training show on TV.

I don't know why I put this on the "questions" topic, but it really did just
seem to flow.

There are so many questions and answers in the world that we can answer
directly and ask some really gloriously thought-provoking questions. We
don't need to practice conservation in conversation.

Sandra

[email protected]

> Close friends, too. They are in constant peril of a candid analysis if they
>
> ask me anything

Sandra--
This sounds like my sister. When someone asked her opinion, she replied,
"Do you want the truth or do you want me to make you feel good?"
Mary J


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/4/02 12:38:45 PM, mc1mommy@... writes:

<<
> Close friends, too. They are in constant peril of a candid analysis if
they
>
> ask me anything

Sandra--
This sounds like my sister. When someone asked her opinion, she replied,
"Do you want the truth or do you want me to make you feel good?"
Mary J >>

Your sister is a cold woman! <g>

I have to tell a story so I can make a point. Sorry. It happens. <g>

A friend of mine teaches a martial arts form with a long lineage, and he's
involved in all directions, with his teachers, and his own students, and his
fellow students. There are annual get-togethers, people come a long way.

One of the rules is you promise not to share what happens within the school
with those outside. It's to be taught only through the tradition, through
the lineage, and they sign an oath.

One guy wrote a book. Told all KINDS of stuff. It was fiction, but was just
practically snapshot moments, quotes, details. The other high-level
students thought the teacher would boot him right out, gone. He didn't.
They asked about it. The teacher just shook his head like no, it was no big
deal.

Here's what happened: the teacher never gave him any useful information
again. When he would learn a technique, the teacher would say "Good!" and
walk on by. Everything he did, no matter how crappy, got "good." No more
actually useful information, ever again. He kept taking his money, kept
letting him come to class, didn't make a scene. Eventually the guy figured
it out and quit, embarrassed.

One of the meanest things I could do would be to tell some people "Oh, that
sounds great!" or any version of "Good!"

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/4/02 4:27:18 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< "Do you want the truth or do you want me to make you feel good?" >>

I sometimes ask people if they want honesty or flattery.
If it's a question about homeschooling or any of my other life choices I'll
ask "do you really want to know?" with a smile.
It weeds out some of the troublemakers....

Ren

J. Stauffer

<<I really struggle with these questions>>

But given the option of stuff to do, kids rarely just want to sit and watch
violence and sex all day. If I ask the kids to go to the park, they are
always raring to go. If I ask the kids to help make cookies, they always
say yes. Yesterday, the 5 kids (ages 12 down to 4) had the opportunity to
watch any kind of television they wanted for as long as they wanted, to play
any kind of video game or computer game as long as they wanted. They chose
to play some rough-housing with stuffed animals.

If kids do just want to sit and watch television all day, that is a pretty
good cue that something is going on. There is a reason behind it, perhaps
they are scared that someone will take them, perhaps they are beginning to
have mature sexual urges, whatever. But there is something there, they are
working on something.

Julie S.