squeakybiscuit

My 12 year old is interested in the Holocaust. His reading level is
not that hot, and won't really read entire books that are on an adult
level. I was looking for good books for him. He was very interested
in the concentration camps and the experiments by josef mengele (sp?)

Anyone recommend anything?

L. Amphay

We just read a picture book by David (I thought it was Adler-started with an A) about 2 children , from different families (Eli, and Hilde), their experiences and deaths in the holocaust. This book is based on true stories given to the author by the victim's siblings.

Lucy
squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote: My 12 year old is interested in the Holocaust. His reading level is
not that hot, and won't really read entire books that are on an adult
level. I was looking for good books for him. He was very interested
in the concentration camps and the experiments by josef mengele (sp?)

Anyone recommend anything?








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Sandra Dodd

On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, squeakybiscuit wrote:

> My 12 year old is interested in the Holocaust. His reading level is
> not that hot, and won't really read entire books that are on an adult
> level. I was looking for good books for him. He was very interested
> in the concentration camps and the experiments by josef mengele (sp?)
>
> Anyone recommend anything?


Why does it need to be a book?
What about websites, movies, documentaries? Magazine articles?
Museum displays (or at least webpages about those displays)?

Sandra

squeakybiscuit

I guess it doesn't need to be a book. Anything will do. He would
probably enjoy documentaries with footage. He also reads websites
alot. Any documentaries or websites about Mengele's twins studies?



Erin


--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd
<Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:21 PM, squeakybiscuit wrote:
>
> > My 12 year old is interested in the Holocaust. His reading level
is
> > not that hot, and won't really read entire books that are on an
adult
> > level. I was looking for good books for him. He was very
interested
> > in the concentration camps and the experiments by josef mengele
(sp?)
> >
> > Anyone recommend anything?
>
>
> Why does it need to be a book?
> What about websites, movies, documentaries? Magazine articles?
> Museum displays (or at least webpages about those displays)?
>
> Sandra
>

elainegh8

This is a good site. I recommend the People section. I came across
this site as I have been interested in the fate of The Roma (gypsies)
in the holocaust and also today.

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/default.htm

BWs Elaine

elainegh8

Should've also said the Arts section is very good too. My partner is
an artist and his work would have been categorised as 'degenerate' art
by the Nazis.

One of the reasons for some of the great art and architecture in the
US today is because so many artists, architects, writers etc who fled
from the nazis settled in the US.


BWs Elaine

jenstarc4

That IS a really good site! My oldest dd has had an ongoing interest
with the holocaust. Some our best information however has come from
German friends who have had to live with the shame of the holocaust in
the history of their culture. Movies have been good too, can't think
of any off the top of my head, but there are quite a few out there,
and we've seen many. Then of course there is the classic "the Diary
of Anne Frank". My daughter was especially able to relate to her
story because of the fact that she was a young girl.

--- In [email protected], "elainegh8"
<elainegh8@...> wrote:
>
> This is a good site. I recommend the People section. I came across
> this site as I have been interested in the fate of The Roma
(gypsies)
> in the holocaust and also today.
>
> http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/default.htm
>
> BWs Elaine
>

Nina Pike Echeverria

I have never read them, but a good friend liked "Maus" which is a series of graphic novels (comics) about the Holocaust. Here is a good 'hit' on Google for the author and the series.

http://www.clintonbook.com/pantheon/graphicnovels/spiegelman.html
----- Original Message -----

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

squeakybiscuit wrote:

> I guess it doesn't need to be a book. Anything will do. He would
> probably enjoy documentaries with footage. He also reads websites
> alot. Any documentaries or websites about Mengele's twins studies?
>

Well, on the book side of things, there's _Night_ by Elie Wiesel, which
is a short, powerful novel, and the comic book style _MAUS I_ and MAUS
II_ by Art Spiegelman.

--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

[email protected]

I think one of the best movies on the Holocaust is "Schindler's List." Very
heavy, very sad, but very good.

A book (the movie wasn't good) that I LOVED as a teenager and have read many
times since, about the holocaust from a different perspective, was "The
Hiding Place" by Corrie Ten Boom. It's a true story of a spinster woman, her
sister, and her father hiding jews in their home in Holland and working with the
underground during the Holocaust. WONDERFUL story, which showed faith in
such a GOOD way, as it should be...sacrificing everything for others.

Nancy B.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

elainegh8

Hi
I've read Maus. Just want to pre warn anyone before they buy it. I
think it may be confusing for a young child to read. There are very
difficult adult themes in it too. Not least the person's Jewish
father's racism. It really is a very adult read, the issues can be
very subtle, disturbing and take a lot of thinking about for an adult.

I do recommend it, but probably not for young children.

BWs Elaine

> I have never read them, but a good friend liked "Maus" which is a
series of graphic novels (comics) about the Holocaust. Here is a
good 'hit' on Google for the author and the series.
>
> http://www.clintonbook.com/pantheon/graphicnovels/spiegelman.html
> ----- Original Message -----

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/2006 3:58:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Sandra@... writes:

>>Museum displays (or at least webpages about those displays)?<<

If you live in the Los Angeles area (and I think there is another one in
Washington DC) the Museum of Tolerance (Simon Wiesenthal Center) is wonderful
and has a tour that walks you through the holocaust, from the beginning when
there were just rumors floating around, to having to wear yellow stars of David,
and into a death camp. It's been over 8 years since we were there, so I'm
not sure what it is like now, but it was very well done. There's a TON of
holocaust information there.

_http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023_
(http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023)

Nancy B.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nina Pike Echeverria

And yet, it might be difficult to find a real book about the Holocaust that glosses lightly over subtle, difficult, disturbing themes... or a movie about it for that matter. "Sophie's Choice" springs to mind. "Schindler's List." I think that chldren and people must be confused and curious before they learn and can be enlightened.

But that said, maybe go to the library and look at Microfilm or Microfische from newspapers, magazines or newsreels of the period??

Anyway, here is a sample of Maus from that same main webpage I sent the link to before:

http://www.clintonbook.com/pantheon/graphicnovels/mauscomp_3.html


----- Original Message -----
From: elainegh8
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Holocaust books suggestions


Hi
I've read Maus. Just want to pre warn anyone before they buy it. I
think it may be confusing for a young child to read. There are very
difficult adult themes in it too. Not least the person's Jewish
father's racism. It really is a very adult read, the issues can be
very subtle, disturbing and take a lot of thinking about for an adult.

I do recommend it, but probably not for young children.

BWs Elaine

> I have never read them, but a good friend liked "Maus" which is a
series of graphic novels (comics) about the Holocaust. Here is a
good 'hit' on Google for the author and the series.
>
> http://www.clintonbook.com/pantheon/graphicnovels/spiegelman.html
> ----- Original Message -----







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Nina Pike Echeverria

aaaarrrggghhhh - so sorry, i totally forgot to trim the original message - beg pardon.

nina
(Julian 2.8, Heidi almost 10m)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

On Mar 15, 2006, at 5:51 AM, elainegh8 wrote:

> Just want to pre warn anyone before they buy it. I
> think it may be confusing for a young child to read. There are very
> difficult adult themes in it too. Not least the person's Jewish
> father's racism. It really is a very adult read, the issues can be
> very subtle, disturbing and take a lot of thinking about for an adult.


I haven't seen that book, but I did think of a movie involving kids
and then thought "No, let it go."
A child could be crushed with the weight of the holocaust. Let him
look at a few things and then move on to something else. He's too
young to "study it" in depth, and too many stories and images could
overwhelm his thinking and his emotions.

Touch it and back away. He can come back to it if and when he wants
to as he gets older, but a big holocaust unit for someone so young
could be devastating. He might THINK he wants to know all that, but
it's too much. Let him grow up happy.

Sandra

Danielle Conger

Sandra Dodd wrote:

>
> On Mar 15, 2006, at 5:51 AM, elainegh8 wrote:
>
> > Just want to pre warn anyone before they buy it. I
> > think it may be confusing for a young child to read. There are very
> > difficult adult themes in it too. Not least the person's Jewish
> > father's racism. It really is a very adult read, the issues can be
> > very subtle, disturbing and take a lot of thinking about for an adult.
>
>
> I haven't seen that book, but I did think of a movie involving kids
> and then thought "No, let it go."
> A child could be crushed with the weight of the holocaust. Let him
> look at a few things and then move on to something else. He's too
> young to "study it" in depth, and too many stories and images could
> overwhelm his thinking and his emotions.
>
> Touch it and back away. He can come back to it if and when he wants
> to as he gets older, but a big holocaust unit for someone so young
> could be devastating. He might THINK he wants to know all that, but
> it's too much. Let him grow up happy.


Yes, I can see this point. I'd personally think _MAUS_ might be a good
way into the topic without too much analysis. A 12 yo could take what he
wanted and leave the rest because of the format, imo. I think many of
the issues are subtle and would go over a child's head.

http://www.ushmm.org/ That's a link to the National Holocaust Museum in
DC. I've been through the Children's section, which is powerful and
difficult and disturbing, but never the whole thing. I won't take my
kids for many more years, but the website might be worth exploring with
a 12 yo, depending upon his own comfort levels and emotional maturity.
There's some cool stuff under the "Special Exhibits" link.


--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

jenstarc4

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd
<Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>> A child could be crushed with the weight of the holocaust. Let
him
> look at a few things and then move on to something else. > Sandra
>

That is exactly what I was thinking when Chamille wanted to learn
more about the holocaust. I really appreciated having German
friends during this time for exactly this reason. They were able to
put it into a different light for her that gave a personal human to
human understanding of it. I know that some of the things that she
saw and heard about were too much for her to understand.

The whole "why" about it was almost too much for her and in fact I'm
not sure I can even understand it. I can understand in the literal,
or logical, but not the emotional or spiritual. Just like I find it
hard to understand why someone can murder someone else even if they
have a reason that I can understand. When one looks at the
holocaust, it is easy to become overwhelmed with the tragedies and
horrors.

For some reason though, Chamille seeks out injustices in the world
to find ways to stop them. So, learning about the holocaust seemed
just a part of that aspect of her person. When we get into stuff
like this, I always try to bring it back out of the details and into
the human nature aspect so that she knows that these are real humans
who are doing the harm and real humans that are doing the hurting.
Being able to bring it back to that helps her find concrete ways of
helping in her own world where she knows that she can't change
everything but she can make a difference.

Interestingly, she likes "The Series of Unfortunate Events" for that
very same reason. The injustices are so obvious, and often so
absurd. The kids in the book just deal with it by trying to do what
is right and saving themselves at the same time.

Dealing with injustices has helped her narrow down where she wants
to put her own energy into helping. Recently we had a discussion on
why it would be hard to decide where to donate your time or money if
you had to choose between feeding the hungry or homeless people, or
animals. Ultimately she chose helping animals. We talked about
playing to our strengths and to what are hearts call us to do.
She's chosen to find a way to volunteer to help animals in need, now
we are looking for ways to do that.

It is strange for me to know that I have a child that sees the
horrors and injustices stronger than she sees the joys. My thinking
is that there must be a reason for it. So I just help her in any
way I can. She really seems to have a better grasp than I did at
her age, of the realities of suffering that exist in the world.
That kind of enlightenment can be a gift and a curse.

rina_groeneveld

There is a recent movie (I don't know if it has been dubbed into
English) called "Sophie Scholl" about a girl who was one of the
central figures of a german resistance group called The White Rose.
Unfortunately they were caught by the Gestapo and Sophie, her
brother and some others were executed soon after. The film is about
the last few days of her life.

Rina


--- In [email protected], "jenstarc4"
<jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
> That IS a really good site! My oldest dd has had an ongoing
interest
> with the holocaust. Some our best information however has come
from
> German friends who have had to live with the shame of the
holocaust in
> the history of their culture. Movies have been good too, can't
think
> of any off the top of my head, but there are quite a few out
there,
> and we've seen many. Then of course there is the classic "the
Diary
> of Anne Frank". My daughter was especially able to relate to her
> story because of the fact that she was a young girl.
>
>

rina_groeneveld

We live quite near a holocaust memorial, at the concentration camp
where Anne Frank died. I keep meaning to go and visit it. One of
those really important things that I keep meaning to do...

Rina
--- In [email protected], CelticFrau@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/14/2006 3:58:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Sandra@... writes:
>
> >>Museum displays (or at least webpages about those displays)?<<
>
> If you live in the Los Angeles area (and I think there is another
one in
> Washington DC) the Museum of Tolerance (Simon Wiesenthal Center)
is wonderful
> and has a tour that walks you through the holocaust, from the
beginning when
> there were just rumors floating around, to having to wear yellow
stars of David,
> and into a death camp. It's been over 8 years since we were
there, so I'm
> not sure what it is like now, but it was very well done. There's
a TON of
> holocaust information there.
>
> _http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023_
> (http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023)
>
> Nancy B.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

one_morning_star

Just a week or two ago was an interesting movie on, It was called
Island on Bird Street. It was about the holocaust from a childs point
of view. Father was taken away and the boy (about 12 yo) stays in
their apartment building to wait for his father to return. Not alot of
blood or gore, and definitely very riveting. I would probably let my
12yo son watch it if it was on during reasonable hours. I think it
came on about 11 or 12 at night when I saw it.
Good luck on this subjetct, I am not even of german descent and still
the history of the holocaust shames me...
Robyn

--- In [email protected], "squeakybiscuit"
<squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
>
> My 12 year old is interested in the Holocaust. His reading level is
> not that hot, and won't really read entire books that are on an
adult
> level. I was looking for good books for him. He was very interested
> in the concentration camps and the experiments by josef mengele (sp?)
>
> Anyone recommend anything?
>

rina_groeneveld

> A child could be crushed with the weight of the holocaust. Let
him
> look at a few things and then move on to something else. He's too
> young to "study it" in depth, and too many stories and images could
> overwhelm his thinking and his emotions.
>
> Touch it and back away. He can come back to it if and when he
wants
> to as he gets older, but a big holocaust unit for someone so young
> could be devastating. He might THINK he wants to know all that,
but
> it's too much. Let him grow up happy.
>
> Sandra
>

Yes, that's one of the reasons I haven't gotten to that holocaust
memorial yet and why I never went to the Dachau one when we lived near
Munich. I didn't want to burden my little ones with it.

Rina

rina_groeneveld

I just thought of another brilliant holocaust film. It's Roberto
Benigni's "Life is Beautiful" about an Italian Jewish father who
manages to protect his son from the harsh realities of the
concentration camp to which they are sent. It is incredibly funny in
so many places (Roberto Benigni is a born comedian) but also very sad.
I howled at the end. I think that a child from about 10 to 12 could
watch it.

Rina

rina_groeneveld

I remember a book that I read as a child that was on a level I could
deal with. I think I was about 10. It was "The File on Fraulein Berg by
Joan Lingard. It is about some schoolgirls in Belfast who are
suspicious of their German teacher and follow her around. At the end
they discover that she is a Jew who escaped from the holocaust.

Rina


> --- In [email protected], "squeakybiscuit"
> <squeakybiscuit@> wrote:
> >
> > My 12 year old is interested in the Holocaust. His reading level
is
> > not that hot, and won't really read entire books that are on an
> adult
> > level. I was looking for good books for him. He was very
interested
> > in the concentration camps and the experiments by josef mengele
(sp?)
> >
> > Anyone recommend anything?
> >
>

nellebelle

Another interesting book is Stones From the River. It is fiction and deals
with the question of why so few people openly opposed the holocaust. I read
this as an adult, however, and can't remember all the details. I don't
think it had much about holocaust victims - it was more about the residents
of one small town and how things slowly changed. The family owned a
*bookstore* but it was more like a library with fees for each book borrowed.

"Things We Couldn't Say" by Diet Eman is set in Holland and is a true story
about a couple who assisted Jews. Also a love story.

Mary Ellen

Robyn Coburn

<<<< The whole "why" about it was almost too much for her and in fact I'm
not sure I can even understand it. I can understand in the literal,
or logical, but not the emotional or spiritual. Just like I find it
hard to understand why someone can murder someone else even if they
have a reason that I can understand. When one looks at the
holocaust, it is easy to become overwhelmed with the tragedies and
horrors. >>>>

Another idea, depending on the child: if the stage musical "Cabaret" is
playing anywhere near, go see it, or read the script. The primary themes of
it are fear and "All that evil needs to succeed is for good people to do
nothing".

The stage play is *considerably* different from the Liza Minelli movie
version. For example the character of Max is a low-income Jewish lodger in
the boarding house, in love with his landlady, not a wealthy bisexual. A
number of the songs are different from the movie or sung by different
characters, and to my recollection the whole odd "absent father" thruline in
the Minelli version is not in the play at all.

I haven't read "I Am A Camera" on which the play is based.

One children's book that I remember from my youth is "I am David", about a
little boy who escapes a concentration camp.

The History Channel, and History International, have *tons* of documentary
programming about the rise of the Nazis, the Holocaust and WWII, including a
series of biographies about Hitler and his various henchmen. There is one on
"Dr" Mengele and the horrific twin experiments. It distressed me greatly, so
should certainly be approached with a lot of caution where a kid is
concerned.

Robyn L. Coburn


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Deanne Brown

>>>I just thought of another brilliant holocaust film. It's Roberto
Benigni's "Life is Beautiful"<<<

This is one of my favorite movies. I cried also (well, maybe more like
sobbed). I highly recommend it. It takes a look at the holocaust
without all the graphic images (except for one that I vividly remember)
and really focuses on the love that binds a family together. I think
that I will have to rent it for my family. Thanks for bringing it up.

Deanne








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Lisa H

The Devil's Arithmetic, book by Jane Yolen was made into a movie with Kirsten Dunst. Geared toward the teen market. My 12yo dd (was 11) when she saw it.

Lisa Heyman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

s.waynforth

There is a Maus website at http://www.nmajh.org/exhibitions/maus/ . I
saw this exhibit at MOMA when Maus hadn't been out for very long and it
is a wonderful look at the creation of a comic. But Maus is a very
complicated comic. When I was 9 or 10 I read "When Hitler stole Pink
Rabbit" by Judith Kerr, which I've just discovered (thank you google) is
based on her own life, which is about a family working to run from Nazi
Germany and Nazi sympathetic Europe. I have a copy that I found for 5
pence at W.H. Smiths, I wouldn't mind rereading that. David rented a
movie from some little artsy video rental in Albuquerque called The
Nasty Girl (not a particularly appealing title) which he had seen at
college or something that is about a girl who in innocently delving into
the history of her town discovers that they were complicit with the
Nazis.
http://www.harvardfilmarchive.org/calendars/06_spring/verhoeven.html has
a bit of information on the film as well as 2 others that might be
interesting. But not easy watching. My brother's first wife set up a
project in New York where she got Holocaust survivors to come to schools
and talk about their experiences in the Death Camps and their
experiences in Nazi Germany, maybe you could look at World Federation of
Jewish Child Survivors of the Holocaust and see if there is a chapter
that you could contact: http://www.wfjcsh.org/chapters.htm. There is a
section of personal stories there as well:
http://www.wfjcsh.org/stories/ontherun.htm . There is the Holocaust
History Project as well: http://www.holocaust-history.org/ .

At about 12 I became fascinated with WWII. I can remember reading a
book about the massacre at Babi Yar and it was horrific and painful, oh
and Jerzy Kozinski's Painted Bird which I absolutely do not recommend.
I read it in my closet, not because I wasn't allowed, but maybe it felt
appropriate, like Ann Frank or because it seemed like secret not to be
discussed or presented by public reading. I read about the Donner party
in the same way. I think it might have been nicer for me if I could
have talked about these horrors more publicly. Instead of lying in bed
at night imagining myself drowning under the bodies of others, covered
in a dusting of lime, talking about these things with my parents. I am
sure if I had approached them they would have been more than willing to
talk about these things, but I needed them to watch me in order to open
the discussion, I guess.

Anyhow. If you want to look at what led up to such a horrible thing
there were eugenic sterilization laws passed in the U.S. by 1907
http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/html/eugenics/essay8text.html which led
to sterilizations performed, involuntarily, on 60,000 people, or so the
cited article states. If you go up a level to
http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/eugenics/ it is an interesting site, if
depressing.

Schuyler

Amanda

A good book I read in my early teens was Child of the Holocaust by
Jack Kuper .

Amanda

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> <<<< The whole "why" about it was almost too much for her and in
fact I'm
> not sure I can even understand it. I can understand in the
literal,
> or logical, but not the emotional or spiritual. Just like I find
it
> hard to understand why someone can murder someone else even if
they
> have a reason that I can understand. When one looks at the
> holocaust, it is easy to become overwhelmed with the tragedies and
> horrors. >>>>
>
> Another idea, depending on the child: if the stage
musical "Cabaret" is
> playing anywhere near, go see it, or read the script. The primary
themes of
> it are fear and "All that evil needs to succeed is for good people
to do
> nothing".
>
> The stage play is *considerably* different from the Liza Minelli
movie
> version. For example the character of Max is a low-income Jewish
lodger in
> the boarding house, in love with his landlady, not a wealthy
bisexual. A
> number of the songs are different from the movie or sung by
different
> characters, and to my recollection the whole odd "absent father"
thruline in
> the Minelli version is not in the play at all.
>
> I haven't read "I Am A Camera" on which the play is based.
>
> One children's book that I remember from my youth is "I am David",
about a
> little boy who escapes a concentration camp.
>
> The History Channel, and History International, have *tons* of
documentary
> programming about the rise of the Nazis, the Holocaust and WWII,
including a
> series of biographies about Hitler and his various henchmen. There
is one on
> "Dr" Mengele and the horrific twin experiments. It distressed me
greatly, so
> should certainly be approached with a lot of caution where a kid is
> concerned.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
>
> --
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>

Sandra Dodd

On Mar 16, 2006, at 4:44 AM, s.waynforth wrote:

> and Jerzy Kozinski's Painted Bird which I absolutely do not recommend.


A friend of mine pressed me to read that in high school, badgered me
and badgered me to read it, and I'm still mad at him about it.
It's like sadistic fantasy, described like bad dreams, all artsy but
horrible.

Sandra