Foster care
Ren Allen
"I have come to see that all children are born equal: full of
vitality, enthusiasm, curiosity, love, intelligence. It is a world of
abuse brought on by adults in the form of parents, school teachers and
others that neglect and thwart the child's bright spirit that makes
one dull, mediocre, depressed, helpless."
I think what Barb meant (correct me if I'm wrong Barb) is that all
people are not born with equal amounts of the positive, nor equal
traits, but ALL children have those wonderful qualities and a bad
environment is what squashes those positive traits.
Because I doubt she really meant that all people are born with equal
intelligence and such. ?? They are equal in that they are AlL born
with those traits. There's always the caveat of severe brain damage
though, and those children aren't born with all of the positive traits
listed.
One thing about foster care, is there has often been physical damage
or other issues at play you might not know about. My brother had FAS,
something that happens in the womb and sometimes no amount of nurture
can overcome that.
I think RU has the best chance for helping those children heal though.
My brother got the whole Ritalyn, schooling crap and whether or not
that's a cause, it sure was a contributing factor in his life
today...which is all about prison at this point.
My other two adopted sibs had abuse issues when they came to live with
us, they live somewhat dysfuntional lives today...sadly. One more so
than the other.
If I were going to choose foster care or adoption, I would be sure to
only get children that were younger than my own children. Messing up
the whole birth order thing ended up being really a difficult dynamic
in our family.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
vitality, enthusiasm, curiosity, love, intelligence. It is a world of
abuse brought on by adults in the form of parents, school teachers and
others that neglect and thwart the child's bright spirit that makes
one dull, mediocre, depressed, helpless."
I think what Barb meant (correct me if I'm wrong Barb) is that all
people are not born with equal amounts of the positive, nor equal
traits, but ALL children have those wonderful qualities and a bad
environment is what squashes those positive traits.
Because I doubt she really meant that all people are born with equal
intelligence and such. ?? They are equal in that they are AlL born
with those traits. There's always the caveat of severe brain damage
though, and those children aren't born with all of the positive traits
listed.
One thing about foster care, is there has often been physical damage
or other issues at play you might not know about. My brother had FAS,
something that happens in the womb and sometimes no amount of nurture
can overcome that.
I think RU has the best chance for helping those children heal though.
My brother got the whole Ritalyn, schooling crap and whether or not
that's a cause, it sure was a contributing factor in his life
today...which is all about prison at this point.
My other two adopted sibs had abuse issues when they came to live with
us, they live somewhat dysfuntional lives today...sadly. One more so
than the other.
If I were going to choose foster care or adoption, I would be sure to
only get children that were younger than my own children. Messing up
the whole birth order thing ended up being really a difficult dynamic
in our family.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/2006 12:17:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
something that happens in the womb and sometimes no amount of nurture
can overcome that.
I think RU has the best chance for helping those children heal though.
My brother got the whole Ritalyn, schooling crap and whether or not
that's a cause, it sure was a contributing factor in his life
today...which is all about prison at this point.<<
We are foster parents, and have adopted 3 of our foster kids, and are in the
process of getting full custody of our 10 yo foster daughter. The first boy
we adopted had/has FAS and RAD. It was a big struggle at first, but the one
thing that probably made the BIGGEST difference was pulling him out of
school as soon as the adoption was final. It lifted this huge weight off of him
and us. He just couldn't handle the stifling environment and needed freedom.
He was always in trouble at school, it was awful. We know he will never be
"normal" but he has come so incredibly far. He's a very happy, busy kid.
His biggest joy is untangling things, finding things no one else can seem to
locate, and "fixing" things.
The other two boys had "learning disabilities." Since we took them out of
school, that has changed, though one still struggles to read. They blossomed
once taken out of school.
At this time, our two foster children are not bothered that they have to go
to school and the others get to stay home. They do their homework if the
want to, wear what they want to, go to sleep when they're tired, and do a good
job ot if. Our oldest foster son is about to turn 18, and will go to live
with family. So soon, we won't have to live by the school's schedule, as when
we get full custody, we'll be able to take her out of school. For the
meantime, she's OK with it. She has been in horrible situations, including almost a
year in hospitalization, so live in our home has been the most stable thing
in her life, probably since she was born.
I think a radical unschooling family can be wonderful for children who've
been in foster care. They've lived with so many rules, so much "system" that
giving them a lot of freedom to make mistakes and grow from them gives them a
chance to have a little control over their own world, something they've not
had in the past. They were either controlled by abuse, or neglect, or the
system.
Something else: I've noticed through the years, that many of these kids
don't "make it" in strict, Christian or Fundamentalist homes. We go to Church
(Mass), but our kids have a lot of freedom, they can have their own interests,
watch most movies, dress the way they want. To look at our home you would
never think we're religious. In that way, the unschooling/relaxed lifestyle
has helped these kids tremendously.
the whole birth order thing ended up being really a difficult dynamic
in our family.<<<<
I have to second this. I would never recommend taking in a child older than
your youngest. The only reason we had the 17 yo is because we had known him
a long time before he was in our home, and we knew his issues were very
minimal, and he still has a good relationship with his father. Still, it was
probably not the best choice, and I'd never do it again. I just wouldn't bring
a teen into my home, you just never know.
I think Sandra did have a point. To have a child for years and years who
has to go to school while the rest of the family is having a ball, could be
cruel. But with us, we were always open to adoption so there was a light at the
end of the tunnel for our kids. After our 10 yo girl, we don't plan on
adopting any more, so we are not going to foster. Sending children from home to
home is the most damaging thing foster care does to kids, so I really suggest
only doing it if you're in it for the long haul.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
>>One thing about foster care, is there has often been physical damageor other issues at play you might not know about. My brother had FAS,
something that happens in the womb and sometimes no amount of nurture
can overcome that.
I think RU has the best chance for helping those children heal though.
My brother got the whole Ritalyn, schooling crap and whether or not
that's a cause, it sure was a contributing factor in his life
today...which is all about prison at this point.<<
We are foster parents, and have adopted 3 of our foster kids, and are in the
process of getting full custody of our 10 yo foster daughter. The first boy
we adopted had/has FAS and RAD. It was a big struggle at first, but the one
thing that probably made the BIGGEST difference was pulling him out of
school as soon as the adoption was final. It lifted this huge weight off of him
and us. He just couldn't handle the stifling environment and needed freedom.
He was always in trouble at school, it was awful. We know he will never be
"normal" but he has come so incredibly far. He's a very happy, busy kid.
His biggest joy is untangling things, finding things no one else can seem to
locate, and "fixing" things.
The other two boys had "learning disabilities." Since we took them out of
school, that has changed, though one still struggles to read. They blossomed
once taken out of school.
At this time, our two foster children are not bothered that they have to go
to school and the others get to stay home. They do their homework if the
want to, wear what they want to, go to sleep when they're tired, and do a good
job ot if. Our oldest foster son is about to turn 18, and will go to live
with family. So soon, we won't have to live by the school's schedule, as when
we get full custody, we'll be able to take her out of school. For the
meantime, she's OK with it. She has been in horrible situations, including almost a
year in hospitalization, so live in our home has been the most stable thing
in her life, probably since she was born.
I think a radical unschooling family can be wonderful for children who've
been in foster care. They've lived with so many rules, so much "system" that
giving them a lot of freedom to make mistakes and grow from them gives them a
chance to have a little control over their own world, something they've not
had in the past. They were either controlled by abuse, or neglect, or the
system.
Something else: I've noticed through the years, that many of these kids
don't "make it" in strict, Christian or Fundamentalist homes. We go to Church
(Mass), but our kids have a lot of freedom, they can have their own interests,
watch most movies, dress the way they want. To look at our home you would
never think we're religious. In that way, the unschooling/relaxed lifestyle
has helped these kids tremendously.
>>>If I were going to choose foster care or adoption, I would be sure toonly get children that were younger than my own children. Messing up
the whole birth order thing ended up being really a difficult dynamic
in our family.<<<<
I have to second this. I would never recommend taking in a child older than
your youngest. The only reason we had the 17 yo is because we had known him
a long time before he was in our home, and we knew his issues were very
minimal, and he still has a good relationship with his father. Still, it was
probably not the best choice, and I'd never do it again. I just wouldn't bring
a teen into my home, you just never know.
I think Sandra did have a point. To have a child for years and years who
has to go to school while the rest of the family is having a ball, could be
cruel. But with us, we were always open to adoption so there was a light at the
end of the tunnel for our kids. After our 10 yo girl, we don't plan on
adopting any more, so we are not going to foster. Sending children from home to
home is the most damaging thing foster care does to kids, so I really suggest
only doing it if you're in it for the long haul.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Barb Lundgren
Of course. Children are not born as "empty slates" and do not need adults
to fill them up to make them whole. They are born with inherent
intelligence, curiosity, need to love and be loved. When the love they
express is not returned, when their intelligence is dumbed down, when their
curiosity is thwarted as being mischievous or wrong in some way, then they
are insulted, slapped, punished, etc. they learn to respond accordingly.
The longer a child has had to adapt to such influences, the greater the
likelihood he has come to believe he is unworthy, stupid and unlovable.
Any organism will falter under less than ideal growing situations and the
human is no different. Anger, depression, illness, inflicting pain on
oneself and others are just some of the ways a human will learn to express
themselves under such circumstances.
Some children and some adults may be unable to recover. Many can however,
especially with the influence of tender, loving people who can give them the
courage and freedom to express themselves in a hundred different ways and
begin to explore the world on their own terms.
In the world of foster care, the system of "care" and "treatment" is
bureaucratic and cold and harsh. Kids are expected to go to school as soon
as they are removed from their abusive homes, even though it may be a new
school miles from their former neighborhood, even though they are terrified,
hurt, angry and confused. The system believes they need "structure". When
kids show how they feel by acting out, rebelling, etc. they system believes
they should be medicated into submission. The list is long, and these are
just two examples.
It's people who help people, not a system. People respond to love, they
respond to freedom. There are no other substitutes, and we are all capable
of change, rehabilitation, making a difference.
Barb
E-mail: barb.lundgren@...
"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness
has genius, power, and magic in it." Goethe
From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:15:46 -0000
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Foster care
"I have come to see that all children are born equal: full of
vitality, enthusiasm, curiosity, love, intelligence. It is a world of
abuse brought on by adults in the form of parents, school teachers and
others that neglect and thwart the child's bright spirit that makes
one dull, mediocre, depressed, helpless."
I think what Barb meant (correct me if I'm wrong Barb) is that all
people are not born with equal amounts of the positive, nor equal
traits, but ALL children have those wonderful qualities and a bad
environment is what squashes those positive traits.
Because I doubt she really meant that all people are born with equal
intelligence and such. ?? They are equal in that they are AlL born
with those traits. There's always the caveat of severe brain damage
though, and those children aren't born with all of the positive traits
listed.
One thing about foster care, is there has often been physical damage
or other issues at play you might not know about. My brother had FAS,
something that happens in the womb and sometimes no amount of nurture
can overcome that.
I think RU has the best chance for helping those children heal though.
My brother got the whole Ritalyn, schooling crap and whether or not
that's a cause, it sure was a contributing factor in his life
today...which is all about prison at this point.
My other two adopted sibs had abuse issues when they came to live with
us, they live somewhat dysfuntional lives today...sadly. One more so
than the other.
If I were going to choose foster care or adoption, I would be sure to
only get children that were younger than my own children. Messing up
the whole birth order thing ended up being really a difficult dynamic
in our family.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to fill them up to make them whole. They are born with inherent
intelligence, curiosity, need to love and be loved. When the love they
express is not returned, when their intelligence is dumbed down, when their
curiosity is thwarted as being mischievous or wrong in some way, then they
are insulted, slapped, punished, etc. they learn to respond accordingly.
The longer a child has had to adapt to such influences, the greater the
likelihood he has come to believe he is unworthy, stupid and unlovable.
Any organism will falter under less than ideal growing situations and the
human is no different. Anger, depression, illness, inflicting pain on
oneself and others are just some of the ways a human will learn to express
themselves under such circumstances.
Some children and some adults may be unable to recover. Many can however,
especially with the influence of tender, loving people who can give them the
courage and freedom to express themselves in a hundred different ways and
begin to explore the world on their own terms.
In the world of foster care, the system of "care" and "treatment" is
bureaucratic and cold and harsh. Kids are expected to go to school as soon
as they are removed from their abusive homes, even though it may be a new
school miles from their former neighborhood, even though they are terrified,
hurt, angry and confused. The system believes they need "structure". When
kids show how they feel by acting out, rebelling, etc. they system believes
they should be medicated into submission. The list is long, and these are
just two examples.
It's people who help people, not a system. People respond to love, they
respond to freedom. There are no other substitutes, and we are all capable
of change, rehabilitation, making a difference.
Barb
E-mail: barb.lundgren@...
"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness
has genius, power, and magic in it." Goethe
From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:15:46 -0000
To: [email protected]
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Foster care
"I have come to see that all children are born equal: full of
vitality, enthusiasm, curiosity, love, intelligence. It is a world of
abuse brought on by adults in the form of parents, school teachers and
others that neglect and thwart the child's bright spirit that makes
one dull, mediocre, depressed, helpless."
I think what Barb meant (correct me if I'm wrong Barb) is that all
people are not born with equal amounts of the positive, nor equal
traits, but ALL children have those wonderful qualities and a bad
environment is what squashes those positive traits.
Because I doubt she really meant that all people are born with equal
intelligence and such. ?? They are equal in that they are AlL born
with those traits. There's always the caveat of severe brain damage
though, and those children aren't born with all of the positive traits
listed.
One thing about foster care, is there has often been physical damage
or other issues at play you might not know about. My brother had FAS,
something that happens in the womb and sometimes no amount of nurture
can overcome that.
I think RU has the best chance for helping those children heal though.
My brother got the whole Ritalyn, schooling crap and whether or not
that's a cause, it sure was a contributing factor in his life
today...which is all about prison at this point.
My other two adopted sibs had abuse issues when they came to live with
us, they live somewhat dysfuntional lives today...sadly. One more so
than the other.
If I were going to choose foster care or adoption, I would be sure to
only get children that were younger than my own children. Messing up
the whole birth order thing ended up being really a difficult dynamic
in our family.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
<http://www.unschooling.info>
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555
>Why do you suppose this is? I'm curious how "birth order" plays out,
> If I were going to choose foster care or adoption, I would be sure to
> only get children that were younger than my own children. Messing up
> the whole birth order thing ended up being really a difficult dynamic
> in our family.
>
or why its important in an unschooling environment? I'm curious to
hear opinions about why being "the oldest" or "youngest" matters in an
unschooling family that doesnt segregrate/discriminate etc by age? I
think i asked this before awhile back when the subject of adoption
came up, but not sure if it was really answered. (i'm not talking
about how adopting/fostering a much bigger/older kid who might
perpetrate on a younger kid might be a problem.)
Katherine
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 29, 2006, at 3:42 PM, queenjane555 wrote:
rights and privileges is bad. Giving your own oldest child over to
the position of #2 in age sucks (and I know from personal experience).
I'm not sure the youngest would appreciate not being the baby
anymore, either, but having your children be bigger and stronger than
stranger children would be a courtesy and a safety.
My sister was sexually molested by the female cousin a year older
than she was. (She didn't tell, because my mom had a no-tattling
policy.)
And my sister went from being one of two to #4 of four.
Sandra
> Why do you suppose this is? I'm curious how "birth order" plays out,Anything parents do to keep their own children from feeling their own
> or why its important in an unschooling environment? I'm curious to
> hear opinions about why being "the oldest" or "youngest" matters in an
> unschooling family that doesnt segregrate/discriminate etc by age?
rights and privileges is bad. Giving your own oldest child over to
the position of #2 in age sucks (and I know from personal experience).
I'm not sure the youngest would appreciate not being the baby
anymore, either, but having your children be bigger and stronger than
stranger children would be a courtesy and a safety.
My sister was sexually molested by the female cousin a year older
than she was. (She didn't tell, because my mom had a no-tattling
policy.)
And my sister went from being one of two to #4 of four.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/29/2006 5:50:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
queenjane555@... writes:
hear opinions about why being "the oldest" or "youngest" matters in an
unschooling family that doesnt segregrate/discriminate etc by age? I
think i asked this before awhile back when the subject of adoption
came up, but not sure if it was really answered.<<<
We may like to think it does not matter and maybe we've never discriminated
or segregated by age. But being born first or last is just not something
that can be changed, and I believe it DOES matter very much to the children.
Not adopting or fostering children older than your own, helps prevent
resentment and "pecking order" problems. I just think it's also respectful of your
biological kids...they were there first and it's just better to keep the order
that way. I wish I could explain it more. I think it helped my biological
children to have a little more compassion for the foster children...sort of
like the the way a big brother or big sister sticks up for their younger
siblings.
perpetrate on a younger kid might be a problem.)<<
This is a big concern, though, and important to be realistic about. It
would NEVER be worth the risk to younger children.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555@... writes:
>>>Why do you suppose this is? I'm curious how "birth order" plays out,or why its important in an unschooling environment? I'm curious to
hear opinions about why being "the oldest" or "youngest" matters in an
unschooling family that doesnt segregrate/discriminate etc by age? I
think i asked this before awhile back when the subject of adoption
came up, but not sure if it was really answered.<<<
We may like to think it does not matter and maybe we've never discriminated
or segregated by age. But being born first or last is just not something
that can be changed, and I believe it DOES matter very much to the children.
Not adopting or fostering children older than your own, helps prevent
resentment and "pecking order" problems. I just think it's also respectful of your
biological kids...they were there first and it's just better to keep the order
that way. I wish I could explain it more. I think it helped my biological
children to have a little more compassion for the foster children...sort of
like the the way a big brother or big sister sticks up for their younger
siblings.
>> (i'm not talkingabout how adopting/fostering a much bigger/older kid who might
perpetrate on a younger kid might be a problem.)<<
This is a big concern, though, and important to be realistic about. It
would NEVER be worth the risk to younger children.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"I'm curious to
hear opinions about why being "the oldest" or "youngest" matters in an
unschooling family that doesnt segregrate/discriminate etc by age?"
It has nothing to do with unschooling or age segregation...it has
everything to do with sibling issues.
Here's what happened in my life; We adopted two girls (birth sisters)
that had a history of abuse and an alcoholic Dad (the abuse mostly
came from him). Cindy was two years older than I, Dana was just a few
months older.
I had been the oldest in my family. My family had a middle class
existance, lots of love and nurture...I seemed to have everything in
their eyes. Being the oldest, then bringing in someone older than me
(these kids DON'T have the advantage of being unschooled/non-age
segregated before they get to your home btw) meant all of her anger
and meanness got aimed at ME.
She hated me.
She destroyed things I loved, she wrote horrible things about me...we
also were friends at times, but the pain of being hated was horrible.
I knew logically, that her hatred was not about me, but I was a kid,
with kid experience and it was hard to understand.
The kids you get through foster care at older ages, usually have a
HOST of issues to deal with. You don't want that anger and hatred of
what happened before your family, getting taken out on your own
children. Please consider that carefully.
You owe your birth children FIRST and foremost. If there's room in
your family for adoption or fostering, I think that's awesome. Just
don't make your own children pay the price for shit done to kids by
crappy parents that you don't even know.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
hear opinions about why being "the oldest" or "youngest" matters in an
unschooling family that doesnt segregrate/discriminate etc by age?"
It has nothing to do with unschooling or age segregation...it has
everything to do with sibling issues.
Here's what happened in my life; We adopted two girls (birth sisters)
that had a history of abuse and an alcoholic Dad (the abuse mostly
came from him). Cindy was two years older than I, Dana was just a few
months older.
I had been the oldest in my family. My family had a middle class
existance, lots of love and nurture...I seemed to have everything in
their eyes. Being the oldest, then bringing in someone older than me
(these kids DON'T have the advantage of being unschooled/non-age
segregated before they get to your home btw) meant all of her anger
and meanness got aimed at ME.
She hated me.
She destroyed things I loved, she wrote horrible things about me...we
also were friends at times, but the pain of being hated was horrible.
I knew logically, that her hatred was not about me, but I was a kid,
with kid experience and it was hard to understand.
The kids you get through foster care at older ages, usually have a
HOST of issues to deal with. You don't want that anger and hatred of
what happened before your family, getting taken out on your own
children. Please consider that carefully.
You owe your birth children FIRST and foremost. If there's room in
your family for adoption or fostering, I think that's awesome. Just
don't make your own children pay the price for shit done to kids by
crappy parents that you don't even know.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 29, 2006, at 7:08 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
"be a better parent" by being a more diluted parent.
I know a family with two children. They adopted three--one between
the ages of their two, and two younger. The mother's attention went
almost exclusively to those three, because they had problems, because
they needed attention. She called them "my Russian" and "my Korean"
and such, but she wouldn't call her own children "my own child"
because that would have seemed to set them apart.
It wasn't long at all before her original two children ALSO needed
attention and had problems.
She had something to brag about at church, at first, though. She
felt like more of a mom.
But quantity isn't quality.
Sandra
> You owe your birth children FIRST and foremost. If there's room inDon't make your own children pay the price for a parent's desire to
> your family for adoption or fostering, I think that's awesome. Just
> don't make your own children pay the price for shit done to kids by
> crappy parents that you don't even know.
"be a better parent" by being a more diluted parent.
I know a family with two children. They adopted three--one between
the ages of their two, and two younger. The mother's attention went
almost exclusively to those three, because they had problems, because
they needed attention. She called them "my Russian" and "my Korean"
and such, but she wouldn't call her own children "my own child"
because that would have seemed to set them apart.
It wasn't long at all before her original two children ALSO needed
attention and had problems.
She had something to brag about at church, at first, though. She
felt like more of a mom.
But quantity isn't quality.
Sandra
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@c...> wrote:
what you wanted in a sibling? Did you meet the girls ahead of time,
and did they live with you for months before the adoption was
finalized? The reason that i ask is that it seems so hard to find
support for "mindful parenting" in adoption circles. I am on a
couple of lists, and the parents mostly talk about diagnoses,
medication, structure, time outs, etc etc. Its hard to know if thats
just alot of mainstream parenting BS, or if its "necessary" ya know?
So when i hear peoples' stories about how it was really hard for
them growing up, its difficult (for me)to discern whether thats an
adoption issue, or a parenting issue. Thats why i specifically asked
about birth order.
Did your parents address the issues between you and your sister? Was
she allowed to get away with treating you badly because she was
adopted? Did SHE want to be adopted into your family? I think it
would be a terrible idea to adopt a child if the current kids in the
family didnt want to do it.
Katherine
<starsuncloud@c...> wrote:
>Cindy was two years older than I, Dana was just a fewWere you involved in the process of the adoption, were you asked
> months older. I had been the oldest in my family. My family had a
>middle class existance, lots of love and nurture...I seemed to have
>everything in their eyes. Being the oldest, then bringing in
>someone older than me (these kids DON'T have the advantage of being
>unschooled/non-age segregated before they get to your home btw)
>meant all of her anger and meanness got aimed at ME.
what you wanted in a sibling? Did you meet the girls ahead of time,
and did they live with you for months before the adoption was
finalized? The reason that i ask is that it seems so hard to find
support for "mindful parenting" in adoption circles. I am on a
couple of lists, and the parents mostly talk about diagnoses,
medication, structure, time outs, etc etc. Its hard to know if thats
just alot of mainstream parenting BS, or if its "necessary" ya know?
So when i hear peoples' stories about how it was really hard for
them growing up, its difficult (for me)to discern whether thats an
adoption issue, or a parenting issue. Thats why i specifically asked
about birth order.
Did your parents address the issues between you and your sister? Was
she allowed to get away with treating you badly because she was
adopted? Did SHE want to be adopted into your family? I think it
would be a terrible idea to adopt a child if the current kids in the
family didnt want to do it.
Katherine
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd
<Sandra@S...> wrote:
who parented "mindfully"?
My child never feels that he is lacking in his own "rights in
priveledges", and i am not sure how adding a child who is two years
*younger* as opposed to two years *older* will make much of a
difference.
festival last year we met a child who was a bit older than my son (a
year older i think)and yet was MUCH smaller physically...he couldve
been a six year old just from looking at him.
acting out sexually. But in our unschooling home, where there is
such an atmosphere of openness, ANY inappropriateness would most
likely be dealt with right away.
Were the kids in your family consulted at all about taking in the
extra family members? My son is desperate for a brother, he said he
would give up his computer to have a brother (and that's saying
something). I think if the current kids in the family really *want*
more siblings, are totally on board with it, thats got to be alot
better than being forced to share what you don't want to share by
parents who don't care about your opinions or feelings.
It doesnt sound like your situation wouldve been made much better if
the cousins were a bit younger and therefore not messing up "the
birth order" though.
I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of
birth order being important. I think any time you change the family
dynamic in *any* way, there will need to be adjustment to that. My
son has been an only child for 9 yrs. I know it will be hard to then
have a new sibling (and not a little lump of a newborn but a fully
formed kid with likes and dislikes and fully formed personality),
and it will change our family forever. But he absolutely does not
*want* to be an only child so i believe its worth it for us. But
with regards to birth order, i'm trying to figure how (for us)how a
child two years older would be a worse choice than one two years
younger. At this point i'm thinking it might be easier with a
younger child (3-7 or so)because he could take the big brother role.
But he has stated he wants a brother closer to his age (he said "I
want a 14 yr old brother!" but i dont think i'm up for that right
now)
I know the most important thing (for us)in adopting would be to be
matched with a kid that has similar interests (i think a boy who's
main love was all things sports related, or NASCAR, or going to
church would probably not be so comfortable here....the SuperBowl is
here this weekend and i dont even know who's
playing!...thats..uh...football right?!?), a kid without significant
attachment issues or history of mental illness, and a child who will
be willing to try homeschooling.
Katherine
<Sandra@S...> wrote:
> Anything parents do to keep their own children from feeling theirBut you didnt grow up in an unschooling home right? Nor with parents
>own rights and privileges is bad. Giving your own oldest child
>over to the position of #2 in age sucks (and I know from personal
>experience).
who parented "mindfully"?
My child never feels that he is lacking in his own "rights in
priveledges", and i am not sure how adding a child who is two years
*younger* as opposed to two years *older* will make much of a
difference.
>But again, i am speaking about *age* specifically. At an adoption
> I'm not sure the youngest would appreciate not being the baby
> anymore, either, but having your children be bigger and stronger
>than stranger children would be a courtesy and a safety.
festival last year we met a child who was a bit older than my son (a
year older i think)and yet was MUCH smaller physically...he couldve
been a six year old just from looking at him.
>Obviously i would not want to adopt a child that had any history of
> My sister was sexually molested by the female cousin a year older
> than she was. (She didn't tell, because my mom had a no-tattling
> policy.)
>
> And my sister went from being one of two to #4 of four.
acting out sexually. But in our unschooling home, where there is
such an atmosphere of openness, ANY inappropriateness would most
likely be dealt with right away.
Were the kids in your family consulted at all about taking in the
extra family members? My son is desperate for a brother, he said he
would give up his computer to have a brother (and that's saying
something). I think if the current kids in the family really *want*
more siblings, are totally on board with it, thats got to be alot
better than being forced to share what you don't want to share by
parents who don't care about your opinions or feelings.
It doesnt sound like your situation wouldve been made much better if
the cousins were a bit younger and therefore not messing up "the
birth order" though.
I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of
birth order being important. I think any time you change the family
dynamic in *any* way, there will need to be adjustment to that. My
son has been an only child for 9 yrs. I know it will be hard to then
have a new sibling (and not a little lump of a newborn but a fully
formed kid with likes and dislikes and fully formed personality),
and it will change our family forever. But he absolutely does not
*want* to be an only child so i believe its worth it for us. But
with regards to birth order, i'm trying to figure how (for us)how a
child two years older would be a worse choice than one two years
younger. At this point i'm thinking it might be easier with a
younger child (3-7 or so)because he could take the big brother role.
But he has stated he wants a brother closer to his age (he said "I
want a 14 yr old brother!" but i dont think i'm up for that right
now)
I know the most important thing (for us)in adopting would be to be
matched with a kid that has similar interests (i think a boy who's
main love was all things sports related, or NASCAR, or going to
church would probably not be so comfortable here....the SuperBowl is
here this weekend and i dont even know who's
playing!...thats..uh...football right?!?), a kid without significant
attachment issues or history of mental illness, and a child who will
be willing to try homeschooling.
Katherine
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/30/2006 9:11:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
queenjane555@... writes:
couple of lists, and the parents mostly talk about diagnoses,
medication, structure, time outs, etc etc. Its hard to know if thats
just alot of mainstream parenting BS, or if its "necessary" ya know?<<
Katherine - I think at first, especially if the child has attachment issues,
there has to be a lot of firm structure. Not because it's "good parenting"
but because the child has to give up and give in and surrender their control
to the parents, so that bonding can begin. It sounds horrible, I know. But
in the children's past, controlling their own situations (through whatever
means possible, usually negative ) was the only way they could prevent
themselves being hurt, rejected, and disappointed. They can't trust adults because
everytime they have in the past, the adults have either hurt them, or sent
them away. It's sort of a "strike first" mentality.
They have to see that there is someone whom they can completely depend on,
who will take care of their needs, love them, protect them, and especially who
won't abandon them. And they will fight it every step of the way..it's the
only way they have defended themselves in the past.
But once our kids bonded with us, we were able to give their lives and
decisions back to them. I wouldn't say that we can give them as much freedom as
the children we've raised from birth, though 2 of our adopted sons are very
close.
I think a lot of adoptive parents do hold onto those parenting styles
forever, which I think is a mistake. The children may appear "obedient" and healed
on the surface, but I have seen so many stifled and not allowed to grow.
They usually explode later.
Have you read anything by Dr. Keck and Regina Kupecky? (Adopting the Hurt
Child, Parenting the Hurt Child) They are my favorite "adoption" authors and
the books apply to foster care too. They really hit the nail on the head.
Describes what does and doesn't work with healing adoptive children, I can't
recommend their books enough.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555@... writes:
>>The reason that i ask is that it seems so hard to findsupport for "mindful parenting" in adoption circles. I am on a
couple of lists, and the parents mostly talk about diagnoses,
medication, structure, time outs, etc etc. Its hard to know if thats
just alot of mainstream parenting BS, or if its "necessary" ya know?<<
Katherine - I think at first, especially if the child has attachment issues,
there has to be a lot of firm structure. Not because it's "good parenting"
but because the child has to give up and give in and surrender their control
to the parents, so that bonding can begin. It sounds horrible, I know. But
in the children's past, controlling their own situations (through whatever
means possible, usually negative ) was the only way they could prevent
themselves being hurt, rejected, and disappointed. They can't trust adults because
everytime they have in the past, the adults have either hurt them, or sent
them away. It's sort of a "strike first" mentality.
They have to see that there is someone whom they can completely depend on,
who will take care of their needs, love them, protect them, and especially who
won't abandon them. And they will fight it every step of the way..it's the
only way they have defended themselves in the past.
But once our kids bonded with us, we were able to give their lives and
decisions back to them. I wouldn't say that we can give them as much freedom as
the children we've raised from birth, though 2 of our adopted sons are very
close.
I think a lot of adoptive parents do hold onto those parenting styles
forever, which I think is a mistake. The children may appear "obedient" and healed
on the surface, but I have seen so many stifled and not allowed to grow.
They usually explode later.
Have you read anything by Dr. Keck and Regina Kupecky? (Adopting the Hurt
Child, Parenting the Hurt Child) They are my favorite "adoption" authors and
the books apply to foster care too. They really hit the nail on the head.
Describes what does and doesn't work with healing adoptive children, I can't
recommend their books enough.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** So when i hear peoples' stories about how it was really hard for
them growing up, its difficult (for me)to discern whether thats an
adoption issue, or a parenting issue. Thats why i specifically asked
about birth order.**
My dad got remarried when I was 14 and my brother 12. The oldest of my
stepsiblings (8) let us know that she didn't like being bumped out of
her role as the oldest responsible kid. That was the role she had
played when her mom was a single parent, and she was pretty level
headed. But no one was going to leave her in charge when they could
nominate a 14 year old for that task. From her comments, it's pretty
clear that she felt she lost status, and I don't know how a parent could
minimize that effect. (It's not like I belittled or patronized her, um,
at least not consciously. Maybe IF I hadn't been schooled I wouldn't
have thought I was way more evolved than her. I don't know.)
Betsy
them growing up, its difficult (for me)to discern whether thats an
adoption issue, or a parenting issue. Thats why i specifically asked
about birth order.**
My dad got remarried when I was 14 and my brother 12. The oldest of my
stepsiblings (8) let us know that she didn't like being bumped out of
her role as the oldest responsible kid. That was the role she had
played when her mom was a single parent, and she was pretty level
headed. But no one was going to leave her in charge when they could
nominate a 14 year old for that task. From her comments, it's pretty
clear that she felt she lost status, and I don't know how a parent could
minimize that effect. (It's not like I belittled or patronized her, um,
at least not consciously. Maybe IF I hadn't been schooled I wouldn't
have thought I was way more evolved than her. I don't know.)
Betsy
Joanne
--- In [email protected], CelticFrau@a... wrote:
it's "good parenting" but because the child has to give up and give
in and surrender their control to the parents, so that bonding can
begin. It sounds horrible, I know. But in the children's past,
controlling their own situations (through whatever means possible,
usually negative ) was the only way they could prevent themselves
being hurt, rejected, and disappointed. They can't trust adults
because everytime they have in the past, the adults have either
hurt them, or sent them away. It's sort of a "strike first"
mentality.>>>>>>>
My middle daughter Shawna used intimidation and manipulation to
abuse her siblings. She was determined to show me (their anger is
usually directed at the mother) that she controlled her siblings,
not me. She constantly tested me to see if I was strong enough to
handle her, to see if I could take what she dished out.
And I was, and I did.
My mantra the whole first year to her was "I will wear you down
before you wear me down. Give me all you got."
And she did.
But we survived and she's healing and learning to trust and loving
life every day.
This was a child who, on the first day I met her (and her siblings)
told me "Don't lie to us" when I asked thme if they wanted to get
together again the following week.
I hope Cimion will be at that level one day. His RAD symptoms are
more deep rooted that Shawna's. His abuse was also longer and more
severe. This is a child who told me he loved me an hour after he met
me.
appear "obedient" and healed on the surface, but I have seen so
many stifled and not allowed to grow. They usually explode
later.>>>>
Yes and this is where I'm forever grateful to unschooling and the
voices who brought it to the front of my mind. As Shawna was making
progress and changes, I knew I had to change my parenting also.
That was VERY hard to do. It was at this point I found
unschooling.com and soaked it all in. I started applyling some of
the ways I was reading about with Jacqueline and she just blossomed.
I then started with Shawna, very slowly and started to really open
up. It was like the vehicle she needed to grow as a person.
favorite "adoption" authors and the books apply to foster care
too. They really hit the nail on the head. Describes what does and
doesn't work with healing adoptive children, I can't recommend
their books enough.>>>>>
That is a great book. I also like Parenting the Hurt Child by them
and Nancy Thomas' "Love is not enough" although I found her
technique worked more with Shawna than Cimion.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
>>>>I think at first, especially if the child has attachmentissues, there has to be a lot of firm structure. Not because
it's "good parenting" but because the child has to give up and give
in and surrender their control to the parents, so that bonding can
begin. It sounds horrible, I know. But in the children's past,
controlling their own situations (through whatever means possible,
usually negative ) was the only way they could prevent themselves
being hurt, rejected, and disappointed. They can't trust adults
because everytime they have in the past, the adults have either
hurt them, or sent them away. It's sort of a "strike first"
mentality.>>>>>>>
My middle daughter Shawna used intimidation and manipulation to
abuse her siblings. She was determined to show me (their anger is
usually directed at the mother) that she controlled her siblings,
not me. She constantly tested me to see if I was strong enough to
handle her, to see if I could take what she dished out.
And I was, and I did.
My mantra the whole first year to her was "I will wear you down
before you wear me down. Give me all you got."
And she did.
But we survived and she's healing and learning to trust and loving
life every day.
This was a child who, on the first day I met her (and her siblings)
told me "Don't lie to us" when I asked thme if they wanted to get
together again the following week.
I hope Cimion will be at that level one day. His RAD symptoms are
more deep rooted that Shawna's. His abuse was also longer and more
severe. This is a child who told me he loved me an hour after he met
me.
>>>>>I think a lot of adoptive parents do hold onto those parentingstyles forever, which I think is a mistake. The children may
appear "obedient" and healed on the surface, but I have seen so
many stifled and not allowed to grow. They usually explode
later.>>>>
Yes and this is where I'm forever grateful to unschooling and the
voices who brought it to the front of my mind. As Shawna was making
progress and changes, I knew I had to change my parenting also.
That was VERY hard to do. It was at this point I found
unschooling.com and soaked it all in. I started applyling some of
the ways I was reading about with Jacqueline and she just blossomed.
I then started with Shawna, very slowly and started to really open
up. It was like the vehicle she needed to grow as a person.
>>>>>Have you read anything by Dr. Keck and Regina Kupecky?(Adopting the Hurt Child, Parenting the Hurt Child) They are my
favorite "adoption" authors and the books apply to foster care
too. They really hit the nail on the head. Describes what does and
doesn't work with healing adoptive children, I can't recommend
their books enough.>>>>>
That is a great book. I also like Parenting the Hurt Child by them
and Nancy Thomas' "Love is not enough" although I found her
technique worked more with Shawna than Cimion.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 30, 2006, at 7:26 PM, queenjane555 wrote:
No I didn't.
But no amount of mindfulness would have kept me as the oldest child
if an older child had been brought in.
I don't think a mindful parent should minimize the potential impact
on their children.
-=-My child never feels that he is lacking in his own "rights in
priveledges", and i am not sure how adding a child who is two years
*younger* as opposed to two years *older* will make much of a
difference. -=-
You don't TRULY know what your child feels he is lacking, and your
not being sure how something could make a difference is no safety
against the difference being made. And does it need to be "much"
damage to be enough?
-=-It doesnt sound like your situation wouldve been made much better if
the cousins were a bit younger and therefore not messing up "the
birth order" though. -=-
Yes, it would have been. Not MUCH better, but better. And better is
better.
-=-> And my sister went from being one of two to #4 of four.
-=-Obviously i would not want to adopt a child that had any history of
acting out sexually.-=-
At the age of seven, when Nadine came to our house, she had no
history of acting out sexually.
-=-But in our unschooling home, where there is
such an atmosphere of openness, ANY inappropriateness would most
likely be dealt with right away. -=-
Much more likely in your situation, yes.
-=-Were the kids in your family consulted at all about taking in the
extra family members?-=-
With the first, yes. With the second, no. She was rescued from a
county orphanage. It was our house or Tarrant County social
services. Her mom (my mothers older sister) left her in a bar and
didn't come back for her soon enough to suit the owners. Because we
already had her sister, it was just done. Nadine didn't want it.
She cried daily for a long time, and when she wasn't crying she was
lashing out at the other kids. I felt sorry for her, but it was like
putting a mean dog in with the kittens.
-=-My son is desperate for a brother, he said he
would give up his computer to have a brother (and that's saying
something). I think if the current kids in the family really *want*
more siblings, are totally on board with it, thats got to be alot
better than being forced to share what you don't want to share by
parents who don't care about your opinions or feelings.-=-
True, but it's bad enough that adults don't have realistic idea of
what they're getting into. Kids have NO idea.
-=-I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of
birth order being important. . . . But he absolutely does not
*want* to be an only child so i believe its worth it for us.-=-
Were you an only?
If not, what was your position, numerically? What of how many?
-=-At this point i'm thinking it might be easier with a
younger child (3-7 or so)because he could take the big brother role.
But he has stated he wants a brother closer to his age (he said "I
want a 14 yr old brother!" but i dont think i'm up for that right
now)
-=-
Are you sure he doesn't just want more friends? Can you find 14 year
old friends (give or take a couple of years for extended visits,
overnights, long weekends? He might want his personal-fantasy
brother, but you won't find that person.
You'll do what you do, but giving some serious thought to possible
longterm (LIFElong—every life involved) ramifications is good.
Sandra
> But you didnt grow up in an unschooling home right? Nor with parents==============
> who parented "mindfully"?
No I didn't.
But no amount of mindfulness would have kept me as the oldest child
if an older child had been brought in.
I don't think a mindful parent should minimize the potential impact
on their children.
-=-My child never feels that he is lacking in his own "rights in
priveledges", and i am not sure how adding a child who is two years
*younger* as opposed to two years *older* will make much of a
difference. -=-
You don't TRULY know what your child feels he is lacking, and your
not being sure how something could make a difference is no safety
against the difference being made. And does it need to be "much"
damage to be enough?
-=-It doesnt sound like your situation wouldve been made much better if
the cousins were a bit younger and therefore not messing up "the
birth order" though. -=-
Yes, it would have been. Not MUCH better, but better. And better is
better.
-=-> And my sister went from being one of two to #4 of four.
-=-Obviously i would not want to adopt a child that had any history of
acting out sexually.-=-
At the age of seven, when Nadine came to our house, she had no
history of acting out sexually.
-=-But in our unschooling home, where there is
such an atmosphere of openness, ANY inappropriateness would most
likely be dealt with right away. -=-
Much more likely in your situation, yes.
-=-Were the kids in your family consulted at all about taking in the
extra family members?-=-
With the first, yes. With the second, no. She was rescued from a
county orphanage. It was our house or Tarrant County social
services. Her mom (my mothers older sister) left her in a bar and
didn't come back for her soon enough to suit the owners. Because we
already had her sister, it was just done. Nadine didn't want it.
She cried daily for a long time, and when she wasn't crying she was
lashing out at the other kids. I felt sorry for her, but it was like
putting a mean dog in with the kittens.
-=-My son is desperate for a brother, he said he
would give up his computer to have a brother (and that's saying
something). I think if the current kids in the family really *want*
more siblings, are totally on board with it, thats got to be alot
better than being forced to share what you don't want to share by
parents who don't care about your opinions or feelings.-=-
True, but it's bad enough that adults don't have realistic idea of
what they're getting into. Kids have NO idea.
-=-I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of
birth order being important. . . . But he absolutely does not
*want* to be an only child so i believe its worth it for us.-=-
Were you an only?
If not, what was your position, numerically? What of how many?
-=-At this point i'm thinking it might be easier with a
younger child (3-7 or so)because he could take the big brother role.
But he has stated he wants a brother closer to his age (he said "I
want a 14 yr old brother!" but i dont think i'm up for that right
now)
-=-
Are you sure he doesn't just want more friends? Can you find 14 year
old friends (give or take a couple of years for extended visits,
overnights, long weekends? He might want his personal-fantasy
brother, but you won't find that person.
You'll do what you do, but giving some serious thought to possible
longterm (LIFElong—every life involved) ramifications is good.
Sandra
[email protected]
>>>Are you sure he doesn't just want more friends? Can you find 14 yearold friends (give or take a couple of years for extended visits,
overnights, long weekends? He might want his personal-fantasy
brother, but you won't find that person.
If you take in a 14 year old, I can almost guarantee you won't find that
person. I think if you are set on this, your hunch about a 6 or 7 year old is a
better idea. If a 14 year old has been moved many places, there's a reason.
If a 14 yo HASN'T been moved a lot and has been with his foster family for
a long time, then that's probably the best place for him to stay until he
turns 18.
You will just have a better chance with a younger child. We adopted 3, all
younger than our own. The oldest (at the time he first came to live with us)
was 9, he's 15 now, and he and my son are probably best friends (my son is
almost 18). They talk all the time about getting an apartment together some
day, or starting a business. This boy had no history of FAS or RAD, and other
than the emergency shelter, ours was the first foster home he and his
brother had been in. So it CAN work, though I always tend to emphasize the bad
(sorry) because I want everyone to know what they're getting into up front.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"Were you involved in the process of the adoption, were you asked
what you wanted in a sibling? Did you meet the girls ahead of time,
and did they live with you for months before the adoption was
finalized?"
Yes on both counts. I could not have understood the affect of messing
with the birth order at my age (9), nor the dynamics my sisters
brought into the household. Could my parents have anticipated? Sure,
now that they've lived through raising three high needs, previously
abused children.
No, she was not allowed to continue with the meanness unchecked, but
what you're not understanding is how subtle it was. It was very
sneaky....so my parents couldn't just go off accusing her without
evidence that she'd done it.
She lied of course. And that's the reason it would have been
impossible to understand whether they wanted to be adopted.For so long
in their lives, they'd been trained to say what elicited a certain
response, they wouldn't tell you what they really felt.
We had them as foster kids for a couple of months before adoption was
discussed. My parents had fallen in love with them by that time....as
had myself and my other sibs. It's a lot more complicated than one
would believe.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
what you wanted in a sibling? Did you meet the girls ahead of time,
and did they live with you for months before the adoption was
finalized?"
Yes on both counts. I could not have understood the affect of messing
with the birth order at my age (9), nor the dynamics my sisters
brought into the household. Could my parents have anticipated? Sure,
now that they've lived through raising three high needs, previously
abused children.
No, she was not allowed to continue with the meanness unchecked, but
what you're not understanding is how subtle it was. It was very
sneaky....so my parents couldn't just go off accusing her without
evidence that she'd done it.
She lied of course. And that's the reason it would have been
impossible to understand whether they wanted to be adopted.For so long
in their lives, they'd been trained to say what elicited a certain
response, they wouldn't tell you what they really felt.
We had them as foster kids for a couple of months before adoption was
discussed. My parents had fallen in love with them by that time....as
had myself and my other sibs. It's a lot more complicated than one
would believe.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
" I think if the current kids in the family really *want*
more siblings, are totally on board with it, thats got to be alot
better than being forced to share what you don't want to share by
parents who don't care about your opinions or feelings."
WE had all of that.
we BEGGED our parents to adopt, more than once. Children do NOT have
the life experience nor understanding of what it's like once these
children are part of your family forever.
It sounds GREAT to have this new sibling, already your age (or older)
to hang out with and have as a friend. The reality is, they don't
always bond the same way.
I have a very surface relationship with all of my adopted sibs,
nothing deep at ALL. That is a very real possibilty, one you need to
accept if you're going to adopt.
Don't go into this all roses and sunshine, thinking you're going to
get a kid that is a great brother for your existing child. You might,
and that would be wonderful, but you might not.
Adoption should not be about providing an instant sibling. You need to
be better prepared for the possibility that it won't happen, and that
child still needs parents and love for the rest of their lives.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
more siblings, are totally on board with it, thats got to be alot
better than being forced to share what you don't want to share by
parents who don't care about your opinions or feelings."
WE had all of that.
we BEGGED our parents to adopt, more than once. Children do NOT have
the life experience nor understanding of what it's like once these
children are part of your family forever.
It sounds GREAT to have this new sibling, already your age (or older)
to hang out with and have as a friend. The reality is, they don't
always bond the same way.
I have a very surface relationship with all of my adopted sibs,
nothing deep at ALL. That is a very real possibilty, one you need to
accept if you're going to adopt.
Don't go into this all roses and sunshine, thinking you're going to
get a kid that is a great brother for your existing child. You might,
and that would be wonderful, but you might not.
Adoption should not be about providing an instant sibling. You need to
be better prepared for the possibility that it won't happen, and that
child still needs parents and love for the rest of their lives.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 31, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
help and support (or he becomes an orphan once he leaves), but your
OWN child might want your resources, attention, private help, after
he's grown.
Sandra
> Don't go into this all roses and sunshine, thinking you're going toYou might, but that would be a miracle, and you PROBABLY will not.
> get a kid that is a great brother for your existing child. You might,
> and that would be wonderful, but you might not.
>Not only does the adopted child either come back to you for life for
> Adoption should not be about providing an instant sibling. You need to
> be better prepared for the possibility that it won't happen, and that
> child still needs parents and love for the rest of their lives.
>
help and support (or he becomes an orphan once he leaves), but your
OWN child might want your resources, attention, private help, after
he's grown.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
The new issue of Life Learning magazine has an article on adoption
and unschooling by Laurie Couture, called "Freeing Brycen." "Part
One of a single mom's journey to adopt and unschool her young son."
Sandra
and unschooling by Laurie Couture, called "Freeing Brycen." "Part
One of a single mom's journey to adopt and unschool her young son."
Sandra
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 31, 2006, at 8:56 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
Things didn't turn out well and it was absolutely definitely not of
benefit to the boys for my sister to adopt another child. And she WAS
younger, by the way. They had a good friend with a really cool
younger sister who they liked a lot. They thought it would be like
that. It wasn't.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> WE had all of that. we BEGGED our parents to adopt, more than once.My nephews thought having a little sister sounded great.
> Children do NOT have
> the life experience nor understanding of what it's like once these
> children are part of your family forever.
Things didn't turn out well and it was absolutely definitely not of
benefit to the boys for my sister to adopt another child. And she WAS
younger, by the way. They had a good friend with a really cool
younger sister who they liked a lot. They thought it would be like
that. It wasn't.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
The more I think about adoption and foster care, the more I think
wanting a sibling for your child is one of the WORST possible reasons
for doing it.
If you have the resources to really GIVE an adopted child a wonderful
life, and you want to make a difference in a child's life, that's a
good reason to adopt. An instant sibling is NOT what you get most
times, and is really a very selfish reason.
That adopted child (if older) WILL come with issues. You need to be
prepared (as does your child) for dealing with those issues long term.
Social workers will NOT tell you every bit of detail about that
child's history...heck, they might not even know all of it themselves.
There is a chance that the child will heal, become a very bonded child
and be wonderful friends with everyone in the family. But you need to
accept the fact that it may very well never happen and if you want to
adopt in spite of that fact, then you are in it for the right reasons.
I am a big fan of adoption and long to adopt a child myself...so don't
get me wrong, I'm not against adoption at all. My dh was adopted and
I've been trying to find his birth mother for years....adoption has
been a big part of my life.
Adopt a child to love them, nourish them and give them opportunities
they may otherwise never have. Plan to love them and nourish them in
spite of the fact that you may never get much back. If you can do it
for those reasons, you will be a great adoptive parent.
If you want a sibling for your existing child, there are other ways to
address that need.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
wanting a sibling for your child is one of the WORST possible reasons
for doing it.
If you have the resources to really GIVE an adopted child a wonderful
life, and you want to make a difference in a child's life, that's a
good reason to adopt. An instant sibling is NOT what you get most
times, and is really a very selfish reason.
That adopted child (if older) WILL come with issues. You need to be
prepared (as does your child) for dealing with those issues long term.
Social workers will NOT tell you every bit of detail about that
child's history...heck, they might not even know all of it themselves.
There is a chance that the child will heal, become a very bonded child
and be wonderful friends with everyone in the family. But you need to
accept the fact that it may very well never happen and if you want to
adopt in spite of that fact, then you are in it for the right reasons.
I am a big fan of adoption and long to adopt a child myself...so don't
get me wrong, I'm not against adoption at all. My dh was adopted and
I've been trying to find his birth mother for years....adoption has
been a big part of my life.
Adopt a child to love them, nourish them and give them opportunities
they may otherwise never have. Plan to love them and nourish them in
spite of the fact that you may never get much back. If you can do it
for those reasons, you will be a great adoptive parent.
If you want a sibling for your existing child, there are other ways to
address that need.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Nisha
**** True, but it's bad enough that adults don't have realistic
idea of what they're getting into. Kids have NO idea.
You don't really have an idea of what you are going to get no matter
HOW you add a child to your family.
.***** . . But he absolutely does not
I was 10 and she was 5. My advice is to make sure you include him in
all the steps that you can. Right down to taking him to court with
you when the papers are done. Also, something my parents didn't
know, make sure the adopted child knows that they have the option of
changing their name if they choose to do so. My sister is still kind
of bitter about that one. :)
There are a lot of reasons why they tend to want you to adopt kids
younger than your born to you children. Birth order does matter in a
lot of ways. It really does influence a lot of things in your
personality. There tend to be less problematic issues with kids who
are younger than your birth children.
visits, overnights, long weekends? He might want his personal-
fantasy brother, but you won't find that person.
There will be adjustments, road bumps and friction. Even when you
want a sibling so bad you can taste it, the reality of it takes some
getting used to. But friends aren't going to cut it if he really
wants a sibling. I've been there. I hated being an only. HATED it.
good.
thankful to have her in my life.
I was asked what I wanted from a sibling, whether I'd prefer a
brother or sister, if I was aware it wasn't like a puppy, that we
wouldn't be able to give them back. That I'd have to share my mom
and dad. The psychologist from the adoption agency talked to me
alone as part of the screening process. There were several things I
could have done or said that would've put a halt on the whole deal.
If I had said I didn't want a sibling, it would have been over.
I did.
We went to Kansas CIty to meet ANg a couple of times before we all
decided to go for it. She had some major issues, and still does if
I'm honest. SHe was seriously mentally and physically abused,
abandoned by both her birth mother, (to her father) and then by her
father for her stepmother and her kids. He drove her to child
services and just signed away rights to her and her two sibs. So she
has some abandonement issues to this day. This all happened before
she turned 5.
I don't think my parents really were equipped to deal with her
problems in a way that helped her at all. A more openly loving, non
punitive home probably would've been better for Ang, but she'd
already been in 6 foster homes in less than a year, and almost
adopted, and then had the family change their mind after they'd
already told her she was theirs forever and she'd lived with them
for weeks. THey were looking at her as being unadoptable and about
ready to write her off completely. So she came to us.
It was a rough road, but like I said, I'm glad she's a big part of
my life. She has said she feels the same way.
Nisha
idea of what they're getting into. Kids have NO idea.
You don't really have an idea of what you are going to get no matter
HOW you add a child to your family.
.***** . . But he absolutely does not
> *want* to be an onlyI felt that way when I was a kid as well. We adopted my sister when
I was 10 and she was 5. My advice is to make sure you include him in
all the steps that you can. Right down to taking him to court with
you when the papers are done. Also, something my parents didn't
know, make sure the adopted child knows that they have the option of
changing their name if they choose to do so. My sister is still kind
of bitter about that one. :)
There are a lot of reasons why they tend to want you to adopt kids
younger than your born to you children. Birth order does matter in a
lot of ways. It really does influence a lot of things in your
personality. There tend to be less problematic issues with kids who
are younger than your birth children.
>year old friends (give or take a couple of years for extended
> Are you sure he doesn't just want more friends? Can you find 14
visits, overnights, long weekends? He might want his personal-
fantasy brother, but you won't find that person.
There will be adjustments, road bumps and friction. Even when you
want a sibling so bad you can taste it, the reality of it takes some
getting used to. But friends aren't going to cut it if he really
wants a sibling. I've been there. I hated being an only. HATED it.
> You'll do what you do, but giving some serious thought topossible longterm (LIFElongevery life involved) ramifications is
good.
>My sister and I are now very close. We weren't always, but I am very
thankful to have her in my life.
I was asked what I wanted from a sibling, whether I'd prefer a
brother or sister, if I was aware it wasn't like a puppy, that we
wouldn't be able to give them back. That I'd have to share my mom
and dad. The psychologist from the adoption agency talked to me
alone as part of the screening process. There were several things I
could have done or said that would've put a halt on the whole deal.
If I had said I didn't want a sibling, it would have been over.
I did.
We went to Kansas CIty to meet ANg a couple of times before we all
decided to go for it. She had some major issues, and still does if
I'm honest. SHe was seriously mentally and physically abused,
abandoned by both her birth mother, (to her father) and then by her
father for her stepmother and her kids. He drove her to child
services and just signed away rights to her and her two sibs. So she
has some abandonement issues to this day. This all happened before
she turned 5.
I don't think my parents really were equipped to deal with her
problems in a way that helped her at all. A more openly loving, non
punitive home probably would've been better for Ang, but she'd
already been in 6 foster homes in less than a year, and almost
adopted, and then had the family change their mind after they'd
already told her she was theirs forever and she'd lived with them
for weeks. THey were looking at her as being unadoptable and about
ready to write her off completely. So she came to us.
It was a rough road, but like I said, I'm glad she's a big part of
my life. She has said she feels the same way.
Nisha
Nisha
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@c...> wrote:
Social workers will NOT tell you every bit of detail about that
until a couple of years ago, and she's over 30. She joined out family
at age 5. We are closer as adults than we were as little kids, but we
started to really bond after about a year of her placement with us.
First fight I ever got into in my life, was when someone at church
camp kept saying that she wasn't REALLY my sister. I gave them a
bloody nose.
nisha
<starsuncloud@c...> wrote:
Social workers will NOT tell you every bit of detail about that
> child's history...heck, they might not even know all of itthemselves.
>That is absolutely true. I didn't know the extent of my sister's abuse
until a couple of years ago, and she's over 30. She joined out family
at age 5. We are closer as adults than we were as little kids, but we
started to really bond after about a year of her placement with us.
First fight I ever got into in my life, was when someone at church
camp kept saying that she wasn't REALLY my sister. I gave them a
bloody nose.
nisha
Ren Allen
"You don't really have an idea of what you are going to get no matter
HOW you add a child to your family."
You can guarantee they won't have FAS or drug addiction. You can
guarantee they won't be malnourished! But it's true that you can have
issues surface no matter the method of adding a child...it's still
good to be equipped with all the information about adoption, in which
you have zero control over the childs environment until they're in
your home.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
HOW you add a child to your family."
You can guarantee they won't have FAS or drug addiction. You can
guarantee they won't be malnourished! But it's true that you can have
issues surface no matter the method of adding a child...it's still
good to be equipped with all the information about adoption, in which
you have zero control over the childs environment until they're in
your home.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
"First fight I ever got into in my life, was when someone at church
camp kept saying that she wasn't REALLY my sister."
Ooh yeah...we used to have issues about people saying "she's not your
REAL sister right?" My two adopted sisters are Eskimo, so we look
obviously different. My sister Dana and I are only a few months apart
in age, so we were in the same grade for all of our school years.
We especially got crap from the kids when we lived in Hawaii!
After explaining adoption and how she was Eskimo they would taunt and
tease us because they thought we were lying. So we concocted a big old
story that our Dad was Hawaiian and our Mom was Haole and we were
twins that each look like one parent.
They bought that story just fine and left us alone. Sheesh.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
camp kept saying that she wasn't REALLY my sister."
Ooh yeah...we used to have issues about people saying "she's not your
REAL sister right?" My two adopted sisters are Eskimo, so we look
obviously different. My sister Dana and I are only a few months apart
in age, so we were in the same grade for all of our school years.
We especially got crap from the kids when we lived in Hawaii!
After explaining adoption and how she was Eskimo they would taunt and
tease us because they thought we were lying. So we concocted a big old
story that our Dad was Hawaiian and our Mom was Haole and we were
twins that each look like one parent.
They bought that story just fine and left us alone. Sheesh.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
"First fight I ever got into in my life, was when someone at church
camp kept saying that she wasn't REALLY my sister."
Ooh yeah...we used to have issues about people saying "she's not your
REAL sister right?" My two adopted sisters are Eskimo, so we look
obviously different. My sister Dana and I are only a few months apart
in age, so we were in the same grade for all of our school years.
We especially got crap from the kids when we lived in Hawaii!
After explaining adoption and how she was Eskimo they would taunt and
tease us because they thought we were lying. So we concocted a big old
story that our Dad was Hawaiian and our Mom was Haole and we were
twins that each look like one parent.
They bought that story just fine and left us alone. Sheesh.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://
www.unschooling.info>
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
camp kept saying that she wasn't REALLY my sister."
Ooh yeah...we used to have issues about people saying "she's not your
REAL sister right?" My two adopted sisters are Eskimo, so we look
obviously different. My sister Dana and I are only a few months apart
in age, so we were in the same grade for all of our school years.
We especially got crap from the kids when we lived in Hawaii!
After explaining adoption and how she was Eskimo they would taunt and
tease us because they thought we were lying. So we concocted a big old
story that our Dad was Hawaiian and our Mom was Haole and we were
twins that each look like one parent.
They bought that story just fine and left us alone. Sheesh.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: <http://
www.unschooling.info>
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "UnschoolingDiscussion" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
> "You don't really have an idea of what you are going to get no matterThat's not quite true. It reminds me of the argument a month or two
> HOW you add a child to your family."
back that anyone's kids could run away, unschooling was no proof
against running away. It wasn't worded that elegantly, I don't
think, but more like runaways could be anyone. As though it were a
random occurrence with no cause.
When I had my children, I couldn't guarantee that they would be
healthy, but I knew who the father was and I chose him. I knew who I
was.
There are genetic tendencies still unidentified or unadmitted, and
one seems to me to be a steadfastness and presence. I think any
child whose father just irresponsibly split and whose mother couldn't
get it together to want to take care of her child is going to be less
likely (for reasons of both nature AND nurture, for starters) to
calmly work at staying focussed and attentive within a family, to
WANT to stay there, and to become a really good mom herself. I know
for sure there are orphans whose parents would have been great; there
are babies whose mothers wanted to keep them but whose parents
cruelly chose for her, to give the baby away. I'm not talking about
those babies, though the parents who adopt them don't then often know
how the parents' were. I'm talking worst case scenario, like my
half brother getting someone pregnant and bailing. (The only
pregnancy of which I'm aware did not come to term.) He doesn't stay
and take responsibility; neither did HIS father. Our mom wasn't all
that great at that either, in the longrun.
I was thinking about the bad adoption stories I know, and thought of
two cases in which the adopted child was the star of the family. I
was visiting one of Kirby's friend's families a few months back. I
know the boy, who's the middle of three boys and was adopted from
inside the family in some way (from a cousin or sibling of one of the
parents, Kirby thinks). He's the star of the show in every family
photo. The brothers have been in serious trouble (attempted suicide
and alcoholism, and getting a girl pregnant); he's had no problems of
any sort. (They're all in their 20's.)
Another family adopted one boy, an only child. All they knew were
the parents were musicians. He is a stunning musician, a NICE guy,
married a woman from Asia, helped her with immigration to Canada;
he's impressive all kinds of ways, and was unschooled for most of his
teen years, which gave him the chance to really focus on music. (The
adoptive parents are not musical at all.)
Sandra
Nisha
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
always things you don't expect, no matter how you add a child to your
family.
Adoption isn't always horrible, it's not always great, but the really
bad ones are the ones that make the news or people tend to want to
want to pass along. Kind of like the stories that hit the news about
abusers who call themselves homeschoolers, or the HORRIBLE birth
stories people tend to tell pregnant women. Not that you don't need to
be prepared for any of it,not that there aren't bad things that
happen, but since there is so much that is unknown, you don't have to
expect the absolute worst either.
Nisha
wrote:
>matter
>
> > "You don't really have an idea of what you are going to get no
> > HOW you add a child to your family."I
> When I had my children, I couldn't guarantee that they would be
> healthy, but I knew who the father was and I chose him. I knew who
> was.Maybe a better way for me to have said that would've been , There are
always things you don't expect, no matter how you add a child to your
family.
Adoption isn't always horrible, it's not always great, but the really
bad ones are the ones that make the news or people tend to want to
want to pass along. Kind of like the stories that hit the news about
abusers who call themselves homeschoolers, or the HORRIBLE birth
stories people tend to tell pregnant women. Not that you don't need to
be prepared for any of it,not that there aren't bad things that
happen, but since there is so much that is unknown, you don't have to
expect the absolute worst either.
Nisha
Kathleen and David Gehrke
--- Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
wrote:
also amazed at lots of the negativity. I have seven
adopted and two birth sons. NEVER did I say WOW I
think we will create this really large family. It
happened one kid at a time and a choice at a time. I
would have one son that hated change and would baulk
each time and one that was all for it. Today they are
both grown men and they couldn't pick one sib that our
family could do without. They both live in another
state. Are some of my best friends and despite being
married and fathers and having their own lives call to
talk to their younger sibs. My eldest daughter was
recently interviewed on tv. When she was asked about
living in such a large family her description was fun,
but loud. She is sixteen. Because we have so many
genetic packages we have kids of high intelligence and
kids who in ps would spend lots of the day in special
ed. That is why unschooling is the perfect thing for
us. It works so beautifully with each unique
individual in our family. When we stepped into the
world we live in we quit just being our genetic make
up. We became this whole new package each time a child
joined our family. My kids are best friends mostly. I
have several that have personality bump up against the
other and I use many of the ideas that Sandra has
shared for heading off conflict, especially with some
of my stronger personalities.
I need to clarify. Adoption is completely different
from foster care. I did that. It was great work.
Adoption is creating a forever family. A new family
from the family you are changing by adopting. A family
that may be better or worse , but for certain will
make the family you had become a memory. Exactly like
when you and your hubby had you first child and your
lives changed forever.
I also need to say adoption is in no way inferior to
birth. If any of my seven children had come from my
body I could not love them more. They are a much a
part of me as my bio children. In their imperfection,
just like mine, and their beauty they are not less.
I once had foster daughters for year. I was lucky
enough to help them go home to their family. There was
one point that it appeared perhaps their mom would not
be able to get them home. I told my worker we would
not be able to adopt the girls if they were
available. They were lovely girls. They would just
never be mine. Never get the status that every child
deserves being part of a forever family.
Our unschooling lives have allowed me to free my
children. To honor them for their uniqueness. My just
turned ten year old daughter learned how to write her
name is cursive yesterday. She wants to open a saving
account and someone told her she needed to sign her
name. In about five minutes she wrote her name
perfectly. Today we are opening an account.
Enough of my rant.
Kathleen
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
wrote:
> Things didn't turn out well and it was absolutelyI am amazed at how long this thread has gone on. I am
> definitely not of
> benefit to the boys for my sister to adopt another
> child. And she WAS
> younger, by the way. They had a good friend with a
> really cool
> younger sister who they liked a lot. They thought it
> would be like
> that. It wasn't.
>
also amazed at lots of the negativity. I have seven
adopted and two birth sons. NEVER did I say WOW I
think we will create this really large family. It
happened one kid at a time and a choice at a time. I
would have one son that hated change and would baulk
each time and one that was all for it. Today they are
both grown men and they couldn't pick one sib that our
family could do without. They both live in another
state. Are some of my best friends and despite being
married and fathers and having their own lives call to
talk to their younger sibs. My eldest daughter was
recently interviewed on tv. When she was asked about
living in such a large family her description was fun,
but loud. She is sixteen. Because we have so many
genetic packages we have kids of high intelligence and
kids who in ps would spend lots of the day in special
ed. That is why unschooling is the perfect thing for
us. It works so beautifully with each unique
individual in our family. When we stepped into the
world we live in we quit just being our genetic make
up. We became this whole new package each time a child
joined our family. My kids are best friends mostly. I
have several that have personality bump up against the
other and I use many of the ideas that Sandra has
shared for heading off conflict, especially with some
of my stronger personalities.
I need to clarify. Adoption is completely different
from foster care. I did that. It was great work.
Adoption is creating a forever family. A new family
from the family you are changing by adopting. A family
that may be better or worse , but for certain will
make the family you had become a memory. Exactly like
when you and your hubby had you first child and your
lives changed forever.
I also need to say adoption is in no way inferior to
birth. If any of my seven children had come from my
body I could not love them more. They are a much a
part of me as my bio children. In their imperfection,
just like mine, and their beauty they are not less.
I once had foster daughters for year. I was lucky
enough to help them go home to their family. There was
one point that it appeared perhaps their mom would not
be able to get them home. I told my worker we would
not be able to adopt the girls if they were
available. They were lovely girls. They would just
never be mine. Never get the status that every child
deserves being part of a forever family.
Our unschooling lives have allowed me to free my
children. To honor them for their uniqueness. My just
turned ten year old daughter learned how to write her
name is cursive yesterday. She wants to open a saving
account and someone told her she needed to sign her
name. In about five minutes she wrote her name
perfectly. Today we are opening an account.
Enough of my rant.
Kathleen
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Joanne
--- In [email protected], "Nisha"
<nishamartin@...> wrote:
My youngest is living proof that removing a child early from an
abusive birth home and NOT giving their abuser another chance to
abuse them is in the best interest of the child. To many times the
system puts the abuser first and the child second. Although she grew
up in foster care, she was in a loving home, with loving people and
she grew up attached and secure.
Today she is a seven year old that is a joy to be around and is the
light of my life. :-)
My middle child is living proof that trauma and hurt can be reversed
and that a child can heal, once they decide they want it. She
learned to trust again and because of that, she learned to love and
be loved again.
Today my daughter is a loving ten year old that amazes me every day
with their strength of character.
My oldest is living proof that abusers must NOT be allowed to have
access to their victims and that children should have the same
rights as adults when they've been abused. Time and time again, he
was sent back to his hell, only to be abused again. His abuser was
given many chances, he wasn't even given one. The very people that
were supposed to protect him, were the ones who caused the most
suffering. The system needs to put the children FIRST.
Today my son is a 13 year old boy who hates himself. He feels
worthless and unlovable, not because he is, but because that's what
he's been shown. He's come a long way since we adopted him and he's
got a long, tough road of healing ahead of him.
My brother, who we adopted in the 60's is living proof that back
then, they thought love healed all and they were wrong. My parents
were not prepared to help him, as I am with my children. They
treated him just as they treated me and it pushed him away. He
needed a different kind of parenting but there were no books or
classes available, like there is now.
Yes, there ARE horror stories but those cases are becoming less and
less as we learn more and more about hurt and traumatized (sp?)
children and what their needs are. Getting these kids out of abusers
hands and into a loving foster home as quickly and as early as
possible WORKS. Severing the parental rights of the abusers quickly
and getting these kids adopted within a reasonable amount of time
WORKS. Having parents who are prepared and educated on disorders
like RAD, works.
When we stop putting the needs of abusers before the needs of their
young victims, cases like my brother will become less and less and
cases like my youngest daughter will become more and more.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
<nishamartin@...> wrote:
>>>Adoption isn't always horrible, >>>>No, it isn't even horrible most of the time. :-)
My youngest is living proof that removing a child early from an
abusive birth home and NOT giving their abuser another chance to
abuse them is in the best interest of the child. To many times the
system puts the abuser first and the child second. Although she grew
up in foster care, she was in a loving home, with loving people and
she grew up attached and secure.
Today she is a seven year old that is a joy to be around and is the
light of my life. :-)
My middle child is living proof that trauma and hurt can be reversed
and that a child can heal, once they decide they want it. She
learned to trust again and because of that, she learned to love and
be loved again.
Today my daughter is a loving ten year old that amazes me every day
with their strength of character.
My oldest is living proof that abusers must NOT be allowed to have
access to their victims and that children should have the same
rights as adults when they've been abused. Time and time again, he
was sent back to his hell, only to be abused again. His abuser was
given many chances, he wasn't even given one. The very people that
were supposed to protect him, were the ones who caused the most
suffering. The system needs to put the children FIRST.
Today my son is a 13 year old boy who hates himself. He feels
worthless and unlovable, not because he is, but because that's what
he's been shown. He's come a long way since we adopted him and he's
got a long, tough road of healing ahead of him.
My brother, who we adopted in the 60's is living proof that back
then, they thought love healed all and they were wrong. My parents
were not prepared to help him, as I am with my children. They
treated him just as they treated me and it pushed him away. He
needed a different kind of parenting but there were no books or
classes available, like there is now.
Yes, there ARE horror stories but those cases are becoming less and
less as we learn more and more about hurt and traumatized (sp?)
children and what their needs are. Getting these kids out of abusers
hands and into a loving foster home as quickly and as early as
possible WORKS. Severing the parental rights of the abusers quickly
and getting these kids adopted within a reasonable amount of time
WORKS. Having parents who are prepared and educated on disorders
like RAD, works.
When we stop putting the needs of abusers before the needs of their
young victims, cases like my brother will become less and less and
cases like my youngest daughter will become more and more.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/