[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/05 12:59:58 AM, Sanguinegirl83@... writes:


> Sang quoted me from an article:
> -=-=
> For some, this is their first real conversation with a person who isn't
> grown
> to adulthood. My kids are used to being the first, in that way. They're used
> to the look in people's eyes when they realize that here is a child who has
> something to talk about and who will confidently and guilelessly speak.~~~>>>
>
>
> Then wrote:
> -=-
> Wow... That gives me hope that I'm at least on the right track. Wyl has
> been
> like that since he could talk-18 months? 2 years old?-People would look at
> me
> baffled, questioning, uncertain. Until I read that, I had just assumed it
> was
> a "safety" kind of issue, "You're letting your toddler/preschooler talk to a
> complete stranger without you guarding (hovering over) him?!". He's always
> been
> a natural, voluminous talker, eager to share all that happened to him that
> day, that week, this lifetime... :~) Glad to know we haven't inadvertently
> stifled that in our bumbling to be the best parents we can be. Thanks for
> the
> little peace of mind.-=-
>

That clarifies something for me and might be a good thing for further
discussion. It IS comforting and calming, something about this ability to talk to
others.

If someone tried to be abusive or inappropriate to my kids, my kids would
tell them so.
And later, my kids would not hesitate to tell others what happened.

There's something in "be seen but not heard" and "don't talk to strangers"
and "I don't want to hear any backtalk" and "Be quiet, adults are talking" and
ALL that layer of kid-hushing attitude and behavior that puts kids in danger.

A kid who is told not to talk to strangers won't be prepared to tell a
stranger off.
A kid who has been shushed and belittled isn't likely to trust that he will
be heard and trusted if he has a serious offense to report.

Sandra


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Ren Allen

"
A kid who is told not to talk to strangers won't be prepared to tell a
stranger off."

Not to mention how confused they would be about why children can't
talk to strangers, but adults talk to strangers every day. Most adults
also FORCE kids to talk to strangers constantly ("tell the nice lady
your name", "tell him thank you" etc...) while still saying "don't
talk to strangers"
I had some bizarre idea that "strangers" were creepy looking people,
as though you could tell which ones wanted to cause harm. All it did
was make me judge people based on how they looked, NOT keep me safe.
Crazy.

Ren

jacquie krauskopf

Thanks for the insight. My son is extremly friendly and strangers is a major problem. He goes up to anyone and everyone- fearless. So we are constantly telling him to not talk to strangers. Stay away from strangers. So then we go to church and the children's sermon the pastor is telling the kids to be friendly and meet people- like neighbors you do not know. This makes it difficult.
Jacquie

Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
"
A kid who is told not to talk to strangers won't be prepared to tell a
stranger off."

Not to mention how confused they would be about why children can't
talk to strangers, but adults talk to strangers every day. Most adults
also FORCE kids to talk to strangers constantly ("tell the nice lady
your name", "tell him thank you" etc...) while still saying "don't
talk to strangers"
I had some bizarre idea that "strangers" were creepy looking people,
as though you could tell which ones wanted to cause harm. All it did
was make me judge people based on how they looked, NOT keep me safe.
Crazy.

Ren




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diana jenner

jacquie krauskopf wrote:

>Thanks for the insight. My son is extremly friendly and strangers is a major problem. He goes up to anyone and everyone- fearless. So we are constantly telling him to not talk to strangers. Stay away from strangers. So then we go to church and the children's sermon the pastor is telling the kids to be friendly and meet people- like neighbors you do not know. This makes it difficult.
>
I'm a talking to strangers kinda gal (the stranger the better, hee hee
hee) and always have been... the one thing I really don't want to be to
my kids is a hypocrite! It's far more important to know *HOW* to talk
to strangers than a blanket *don't do it* -- after all, mommy and daddy
were strangers to one another once, if they didn't talk there'd be no
kids!!

:) diana


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jacquie krauskopf

So what your saying is that we need to let our kids talk to strangers and thus learn how to talk to people, but also how to handle bad situations if one arises???
Jacquie

diana jenner <hahamommy@...> wrote:
jacquie krauskopf wrote:

>Thanks for the insight. My son is extremly friendly and strangers is a major problem. He goes up to anyone and everyone- fearless. So we are constantly telling him to not talk to strangers. Stay away from strangers. So then we go to church and the children's sermon the pastor is telling the kids to be friendly and meet people- like neighbors you do not know. This makes it difficult.
>
I'm a talking to strangers kinda gal (the stranger the better, hee hee
hee) and always have been... the one thing I really don't want to be to
my kids is a hypocrite! It's far more important to know *HOW* to talk
to strangers than a blanket *don't do it* -- after all, mommy and daddy
were strangers to one another once, if they didn't talk there'd be no
kids!!

:) diana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Karri Lewis

Has anyone read, "Protecting the Gift?" It's a great book that dispels the "stranger danger" myth. Sadly, abuse, violence and death happen statistically way more often from someone the child knows than with a "stranger." I'm not saying that it can't happen with a stranger, it's just way more likely with someone a child is familiar with.
-Karri

Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
"
A kid who is told not to talk to strangers won't be prepared to tell a
stranger off."

<<<<Not to mention how confused they would be about why children can't
talk to strangers, but adults talk to strangers every day.>>>>

Karri, Lindsay (4/16/02) and Camden (6/8/04)

We are students of words; we are shut up in schools, and colleges, and recitation rooms, for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson






















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Deb

--- In [email protected], diana jenner
<hahamommy@s...> wrote:
>after all, mommy and daddy
> were strangers to one another once, if they didn't talk there'd be
>no
> kids!!
>
> :) diana
>
I don't think it was the talking that got the kids going <wink> LOL
--Deb

Marjorie Kirk

Has anyone read, "Protecting the Gift?" It's a great book that dispels the
"stranger danger" myth. Sadly, abuse, violence and death happen
statistically way more often from someone the child knows than with a
"stranger." I'm not saying that it can't happen with a stranger, it's just
way more likely with someone a child is familiar with.
-Karri
****************************************************************************
*****************************************
I love that book. I have never really told my kids not to talk to strangers
(because I do it all the time!), but I have told them that if something
doesn't seem right, it probably isn't, and you don't have to continue to
converse, or even be near, a person that makes you uncomfortable. It's all
about listening to your instincts.

Marjorie

jacquie krauskopf

If it was talking alone that would explain why we only have one...
Jacquie

Deb <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], diana jenner
<hahamommy@s...> wrote:
>after all, mommy and daddy
> were strangers to one another once, if they didn't talk there'd be
>no
> kids!!
>
> :) diana
>
I don't think it was the talking that got the kids going <wink> LOL
--Deb




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[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/05 11:01:11 PM, kraus12@... writes:


> -=-So what your saying is that we need to let our kids talk to strangers
> and thus learn how to talk to people, but also how to handle bad situations if
> one arises???-=-
>
Consider your alternatives, and make a conscious, mindful choice about how to
advise your kids.

"Don't talk to strangers" is a rule.
What is the principle?

http://sandradodd.com/benrules
http://sandradodd.com/rules

If you ask us what you should let your kids do, you're asking for another
rule, a new and different set of rules.

Dump all rules and go for underlying purposes.

My mom said "Never play in the barn with David " (my nextdoor neighbor).
She didn't say why. She didn't say "nor any outbuilding," it was "the barn"
and "David." David was never inappropriate with us, and I was unprepared for
whatever it was my mom was envisioning. She didn't explain. I couldn't
generalize it to other boys or other places. And the sexual abuse that DID
happen in our family was female cousin a year older than my sister messing with
her. My mom didn't prepare us for any real situations, just made a
magic-bullet rule which wasn't effective. But for her own peace of mind, she had "told
us what to do."

Another thing that was said to kids ALL THE TIME in those days was "Don't
take candy from strangers." Huh. What about Cokes? Gum? *Cash*? What
about candy from known individuals? Their intent was to advise children not
to be lured or bribed into a situation of indebtedness to a predatory man.
That intent wasn't usually clear to children. It was just a rule.

Sandra




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diana jenner

jacquie krauskopf wrote:

>So what your saying is that we need to let our kids talk to strangers and thus learn how to talk to people, but also how to handle bad situations if one arises???
>
>
Yes! I'm sure they see you in the grocery store, and unless you're in a
very small town, the person you ask for directions is a stranger, as is
the meat man and the cashier; and yet you *seek them out* AND speak to
them! Your kids will pick up on how you're different with those you know
well vs those you've just spoken to for the first time -- they will
emulate that and experiment on their own, if allowed the freedom to do
so. Do your kids keep to themselves at the park or do they play with
whomever is close by? My kids go thru stages of wanting only those they
know to play and then seeking out newbies to include. I've met more
than a few friends because my kids have sought out the children first
<g> (especially at the Live and Learn conference, where everyone is a
stranger the first day, but not so much by the last!).

Your fears should remain just that: *YOURS* and not passed down to your
kids without serious deep thought to the consequences (of the FEAR, not
what you're afraid of)

When my kids get stuck in a social situation, I'm on hand to
coach/negotiate/interpret whatever is asked of me; I'm also ready and
willing to help with prep (who's gonna be there, what to expect) for
specific situations and to decompress after a particularly stressful
situations (family members who are virtual strangers, but want to be
treated as *family*).

There's a good situation for pondering: what to do when Gramma is the
stranger and demands the props of grandmotherhood?
It took a long time for my MIL to accept my children will not be forced
into intimacy, but will hug and kiss when they feel the desire to do
so. She is much better at patience, as the genuine showing of affection
feels much better than the obligatory ones.

:) diana


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Schuyler Waynforth

> Another thing that was said to kids ALL THE TIME in those days was
"Don't
> take candy from strangers." Huh. What about Cokes? Gum?
*Cash*? What
> about candy from known individuals? Their intent was to advise
children not
> to be lured or bribed into a situation of indebtedness to a
predatory man.
> That intent wasn't usually clear to children. It was just a rule.
>
> Sandra


I can remember talking to a guy in an alley near my cousins' house in
Wichita. I was with my younger cousin. Apparently we were seen
speaking to this guy. I got in big trouble later for talking to a
stranger with my younger cousin. I can remember being told that as I
was older I should know better. But the guy was nice and chatty, and
nothing bad happened. And he didn't offer us candy, which I'd been
warned about. And nothing happened, except that the adults got scared
and didn't know what to do with that fear except to make me
accountable for it. I can understand the fear, but not really the
making me accountable for it--I was 8, I think. It didn't stop me
later from getting into a car with a guy from a diner I worked in who
offered me drugs and then refused to take me and my friend home unless
we kissed him. Nor did the knowledge that I shouldn't have taken a
ride from him keep me from getting me and my friend back home without
kissing him (she was going to kiss him--I threatened to turn him into
the police, I think my tactic was probably the better choice). Nor
did it stop me from taking a ride from a guy on a moped when I was
waiting for a bus to get to an art gallery opening that the artist had
invited me to. The moped rider turned up the wrong street after
feeling up my leg, slowing just enough on the turn for me to jump off
and flee for the bus which I caught before he came back for me. But,
them telling me not to talk to strangers kept me from telling my
parents about any of those things happening to me. I have a friend who
was raped who didn't tell her mom because she had been told not to
talk to strangers and the fear of hearing "I told you so" kept her
from being open when she could have used the support. But it didn't
keep her from telling her friends at school about not accepting rides
from strangers. I guess what I am saying is that my parents rule about
not talking to strangers only kept me from admitting my conversations
with strangers to them and didn't keep me from having them.

As a side note The Jimmy Neutron movie is all about not talking to
strangers. Jimmy sends a message into space that gets picked up by
hostile aliens who come to earth and steal all the parents. After all
is okay again Jimmy Neutron gets in trouble for talking to strangers.
I hadn't even thought of sending a message into space as a talking to
strangers kind of issue before.

Schuyler

Debi

>As a side note The Jimmy Neutron movie is all about not talking to
>strangers.
>
(snip)

>Jimmy sends a message into space that gets picked up by
>hostile aliens who come to earth and steal all the parents. After all
>is okay again Jimmy Neutron gets in trouble for talking to strangers.
> I hadn't even thought of sending a message into space as a talking to
>strangers kind of issue before.
>
>
Aren't many of us, by using this egroup, *talking to strangers* right
now?! And thank goodness for it, really. I would not have grown nearly
as much as i have without the benefit of many of the posts here, written
by people unknown to me.

Debi from Canada, who prefers the song from the Muppet Movie:
"There's not a word yet
For old friends who have just met.
You can just visit, but I plan to stay...
I'm going to come back here some day."

[email protected]

Instant messages and stranger danger:

Someone IMed me years back saying we had the same birthday. I could have
said "get lost, creep" or just closed it and turned off my computer, but instead
I made a friend with a man from northern Germany who has the same birthday I
do to the year. He's been to visit me twice, and lives in the U.S. now,
married to someone from Texas. <g> We've talked each other through personal
dramas (more his dramas than mine, poor guy) and it's been really very nice for
both of us.

A guy wrote once and asked me if I wanted to fool around. He was very
polite about it. I didn't want to, but I did have a friend who had told me the
week before that she would love to just have a casual fling with someone who
would not then want her to "be his girlfriend." I inquired in both directions,
asked some questions to satisfy my own mind so that I could feel that I wasn't
putting my friend in danger, and they saw each other several times. Nobody
was hurt or sorrowful about it. She was glad; I didn't check back with him. <
g>

Strangers have talked to me in grocery store lines and restaurants my whole
life, and some end up telling me about a death from which they haven't
recovered (maybe told lots of people, but for some reason people tell me their stuff).
One man I met at a medieval banquet sat and told me his wife had died
trying to save their son from drowning. Both drowned. There wasn't anything
more important for me to do then and there but to let him tell his story, and
comfort him. He didn't try to "fool around with me."

Marty and I helped an older woman who couldn't start her car one day outside
a Blake's. She might've been afraid for a big teenaged boy to offer to help
her, but maybe because I was there it helped make it okay.

My kids have seen me not be afraid of strangers, and have seen me sometimes
wary in a situation too, and that's a better way for them to figure out how to
decide. Then too, though, some people have a better sense of other people's
motives and intent, but no matter how good they are at reading people some
people have the sociopathic talent of masking their ill intent very well.
All that is good for kids to consider, as they get older and it comes into the
conversation.

Sandra


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[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/2005 11:59:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> If someone tried to be abusive or inappropriate to my kids, my kids would
> tell them so.
>

That's an interesting point.... I'm not sure Wyl would at this point (but he
IS only 6 1/2), but I'm not sure he wouldn't, either... He thinks nothing of
telling an adult they're wrong when it comes to something he knows (dinosaurs,
space, etc.), so maybe THAT'S a good sign... I know he WON'T tell
Santa-at-the-mall anything negative... maybe its time to start countering some of that
general Santa negativity (be good/be NICE or Santa won't bring you toys) that is
so prevalent in society... books, t.v., cartoons, grandparents... Another one
of those "reward/punishment" things I've started reading about in Alphie
Kohn's book, anyway... He DEFINITELY doesn't want to sit on Santa's lap, and seems
VERY uncomfortable about the idea. I've never had a problem with my son not
wanting to sit on a strange man's lap!! Just that above line has given me a
whole new scope of things to think about. Good time of year to re-examine those
things, too. Thanks.

Peace,
Sang


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