book worship and some of its history
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/26/05 9:44:02 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
by hand. That's beyond snazzy. That's like building a bridge or a church.
-=-All I learned in school about Guttenberg was "movable type",-=-
Right. The "new" technology before that was hand-carving each page in
reverse. Those wooden printblocks didn't last very long at all. Or they could
cast a page in lead. Lead ones didn't either. They couldn't make unlimited
print runs. They couldn't even make LARGE printruns. Each page was printed
and hung up or laid out to dry.
Owning a book created by hand is not even nearly in the same category as
going and buying one of however-many-million copies of the new Harry Potter book.
I was talking to Keith last night about autographed books. I don't like to
have them.<g> Too much responsibility. I had an autographed copy of Shane
and gave it away. Of course I wish I hadn't. But I'm glad I did. I gave
away an autographed copy of the first novel my friend wrote (she's written
several now) because it was about a period and incident I didn't care about; gave
it to an unschooler teen who WAS interested.
What I told Keith was that I like to think of books as the essence of them,
the information that's in them, not as their physical selves. On the other
hand, I write in my books, and that makes that copy important to me (and
relatively less valuable to others, which is fine with me, because in my view of
"that book" I haven't harmed the book (the greater soul of that collection of
writings), just that COPY of the book.
A hundred years ago, and even more 200 years ago, and VASTLY more 500 years
ago, that thought would have been nonsense. A book was a very valuable thing.
More than the new iMac I just got (which was also one of millions, and
shouldn't be expected to last me ten years).
I was watching Sense and Sensibility yesterday. Part of the subplot of the
movie (not of the essence of the novel, I think, which has existed since the
18th century in many copies and passed through MANY kinds of printing
processes) is that the youngest sister loves an atlas that was at their house, in the
library of the "stately home" (just an everyday large estate with dozens of
servants, in those days—not a government-subsidized museum). An older
half-brother inherits the house. The house includes the library. The atlas belongs
to the owner of the house, whoever that might be.
Before that there was such a thing as "bound libraries": books were chained
to the tables. Y'know bookstands, angled bookstands? There were big ones,
with benches in front of them. Books LIVED there--not ten years, like an
i-Mac. Hundreds of years, in universities. Universities existed because
books lived in certain places. They weren't carried around in backpacks or the
back windows of cars. They weren't carried around anywhere. They were
transported in wooden trunks to the place where they would live from then on.
To this day, in English universities, someone will say "I'm reading in
history" (whereas Americans say "I'm majoring in history"). They go to the
university to read (at least linguistically), still.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Well, the technology was new, that must have made it seem snazzy.Books were written and illuminated and bound by hand on velum that was made
>
by hand. That's beyond snazzy. That's like building a bridge or a church.
-=-All I learned in school about Guttenberg was "movable type",-=-
Right. The "new" technology before that was hand-carving each page in
reverse. Those wooden printblocks didn't last very long at all. Or they could
cast a page in lead. Lead ones didn't either. They couldn't make unlimited
print runs. They couldn't even make LARGE printruns. Each page was printed
and hung up or laid out to dry.
Owning a book created by hand is not even nearly in the same category as
going and buying one of however-many-million copies of the new Harry Potter book.
I was talking to Keith last night about autographed books. I don't like to
have them.<g> Too much responsibility. I had an autographed copy of Shane
and gave it away. Of course I wish I hadn't. But I'm glad I did. I gave
away an autographed copy of the first novel my friend wrote (she's written
several now) because it was about a period and incident I didn't care about; gave
it to an unschooler teen who WAS interested.
What I told Keith was that I like to think of books as the essence of them,
the information that's in them, not as their physical selves. On the other
hand, I write in my books, and that makes that copy important to me (and
relatively less valuable to others, which is fine with me, because in my view of
"that book" I haven't harmed the book (the greater soul of that collection of
writings), just that COPY of the book.
A hundred years ago, and even more 200 years ago, and VASTLY more 500 years
ago, that thought would have been nonsense. A book was a very valuable thing.
More than the new iMac I just got (which was also one of millions, and
shouldn't be expected to last me ten years).
I was watching Sense and Sensibility yesterday. Part of the subplot of the
movie (not of the essence of the novel, I think, which has existed since the
18th century in many copies and passed through MANY kinds of printing
processes) is that the youngest sister loves an atlas that was at their house, in the
library of the "stately home" (just an everyday large estate with dozens of
servants, in those days—not a government-subsidized museum). An older
half-brother inherits the house. The house includes the library. The atlas belongs
to the owner of the house, whoever that might be.
Before that there was such a thing as "bound libraries": books were chained
to the tables. Y'know bookstands, angled bookstands? There were big ones,
with benches in front of them. Books LIVED there--not ten years, like an
i-Mac. Hundreds of years, in universities. Universities existed because
books lived in certain places. They weren't carried around in backpacks or the
back windows of cars. They weren't carried around anywhere. They were
transported in wooden trunks to the place where they would live from then on.
To this day, in English universities, someone will say "I'm reading in
history" (whereas Americans say "I'm majoring in history"). They go to the
university to read (at least linguistically), still.
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
** To this day, in English universities, someone will say "I'm reading in
history"**
Right. The knowledge was in the books. It is kind of a weird shift
from the older idea of knowledge being in people's heads, or
discoverable in the world.
Without books, I bet we'd respect older people more in our culture.
Betsy
history"**
Right. The knowledge was in the books. It is kind of a weird shift
from the older idea of knowledge being in people's heads, or
discoverable in the world.
Without books, I bet we'd respect older people more in our culture.
Betsy
Danielle Conger
SandraDodd@... wrote:
art was the medium he used--relief etching. Most scholars believe this
process, which Blake claimed came to him in a dream delivered by his
dead brother, was a kind of acid etching on copper. Blake, by trade an
engraver, was able to print text and picture this way (so all the text
was etched backwards) then use watercolors to finish.
The result is an amazing blend of literature and art and science and
psychology and the paranormal and religion and mythology and...
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
>One of the really interesting things about William Blake's writing and
>
> Books were written and illuminated and bound by hand on velum that was
> made
> by hand. That's beyond snazzy. That's like building a bridge or a
> church.
>
> -=-All I learned in school about Guttenberg was "movable type",-=-
>
> Right. The "new" technology before that was hand-carving each page in
> reverse. Those wooden printblocks didn't last very long at all. Or
> they could
> cast a page in lead. Lead ones didn't either. They couldn't make
> unlimited
> print runs. They couldn't even make LARGE printruns. Each page was
> printed
> and hung up or laid out to dry.
art was the medium he used--relief etching. Most scholars believe this
process, which Blake claimed came to him in a dream delivered by his
dead brother, was a kind of acid etching on copper. Blake, by trade an
engraver, was able to print text and picture this way (so all the text
was etched backwards) then use watercolors to finish.
The result is an amazing blend of literature and art and science and
psychology and the paranormal and religion and mythology and...
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/26/05 10:23:59 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
Now we only respect older published authors, or older PhDs.<g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Without books, I bet we'd respect older people more in our culture.True!
>
Now we only respect older published authors, or older PhDs.<g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/26/05 10:25:54 AM, danielle.conger@... writes:
Books as ju-ju.
Some of the medieval monks were making ju-ju books, BIGtime. Even now, the
dedication of a book creates ju-ju. A book is personified, embued with the
soul of a person. And that meant a LOT more when there weren't going to be
six million copies the first day. (I still am not over the stats on the new
Harry Potter book, which I got on the first day and took a week to read.)
Quite common in the Renaissance was dedicating a book to a king or some other
royal patron. Still common into the early 20th century.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Ah...
> The result is an amazing blend of literature and art and science and
> psychology and the paranormal and religion and mythology and...
>
>
Books as ju-ju.
Some of the medieval monks were making ju-ju books, BIGtime. Even now, the
dedication of a book creates ju-ju. A book is personified, embued with the
soul of a person. And that meant a LOT more when there weren't going to be
six million copies the first day. (I still am not over the stats on the new
Harry Potter book, which I got on the first day and took a week to read.)
Quite common in the Renaissance was dedicating a book to a king or some other
royal patron. Still common into the early 20th century.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elainegh8
Hi Sandra
In the UK we generally say we are reading history or they
are reading history at such and such University, we skip the 'in'.
Regards, Elaine
In the UK we generally say we are reading history or they
are reading history at such and such University, we skip the 'in'.
Regards, Elaine
> To this day, in English universities, someone will say "I'm readingin
> history" (whereas Americans say "I'm majoring in history"). Theygo to the
> university to read (at least linguistically), still.
>
> Sandra
elainegh8
Hi
What's ju-ju?
BWs Elaine
What's ju-ju?
BWs Elaine
> Ah...Even now, the
>
> Books as ju-ju.
> Some of the medieval monks were making ju-ju books, BIGtime.
> dedication of a book creates ju-ju. A book is personified,embued with the
> soul of a person. And that meant a LOT more when there weren'tgoing to be
> six million copies the first day. (I still am not over the statson the new
> Harry Potter book, which I got on the first day and took a week toread.)
> Quite common in the Renaissance was dedicating a book to a king orsome other
> royal patron. Still common into the early 20th century.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/27/05 8:38:09 AM, elainegh8@... writes:
useage.
Or maybe I made it up, but I don't think so. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> In the UK we generally say we are reading history or theyThanks. I hesitated, and I think maybe what I wrote is an archaic older
> are reading history at such and such University, we skip the 'in'.
>
>
useage.
Or maybe I made it up, but I don't think so. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elainegh8
Hi Sandra
yeah I think you're right using the 'in' is archaic usage.
BWs Elaine
yeah I think you're right using the 'in' is archaic usage.
BWs Elaine
> > In the UK we generally say we are reading history or theyolder
> > are reading history at such and such University, we skip the 'in'.
> >
> >
>
> Thanks. I hesitated, and I think maybe what I wrote is an archaic
> useage.
> Or maybe I made it up, but I don't think so. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I find some of the best things when looking for something else.
Found this quote:
“Wherever two people live together in this kind of comradeship, giving and
receiving mutual help, there real education is in progress. The place of books
is, therefore, secondary. This idea troubles many people, who think that if the
place assigned to books is reduced the students will be deprived of the most
valuable tools of knowledge. Books do have a place as tools of knowledge, but
it is a very minor place. The major need is for teacher and student to become
work-partners, and this can happen only when the distinction between the
teacher 'teaching' and the student 'learning' can be overcome.” - Vinoba Bhave, an
educational philosopher born in the Indian state of Maharashtra in 1895,
identified by Ghandi as his spiritual successor.
Found it here:
http://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/19413/2979/4
Very well organized set of info!
There was another quote by the same guy about Indian languages not having the
same problem English has about teacher/student, because they don't have our
idea of "teach."
I put that quote along with my collection here:
http://sandradodd.com/wordswordsother
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Found this quote:
“Wherever two people live together in this kind of comradeship, giving and
receiving mutual help, there real education is in progress. The place of books
is, therefore, secondary. This idea troubles many people, who think that if the
place assigned to books is reduced the students will be deprived of the most
valuable tools of knowledge. Books do have a place as tools of knowledge, but
it is a very minor place. The major need is for teacher and student to become
work-partners, and this can happen only when the distinction between the
teacher 'teaching' and the student 'learning' can be overcome.” - Vinoba Bhave, an
educational philosopher born in the Indian state of Maharashtra in 1895,
identified by Ghandi as his spiritual successor.
Found it here:
http://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/19413/2979/4
Very well organized set of info!
There was another quote by the same guy about Indian languages not having the
same problem English has about teacher/student, because they don't have our
idea of "teach."
I put that quote along with my collection here:
http://sandradodd.com/wordswordsother
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Someone asked what ju-ju was.
It's a term for something having a magical or powerful-of-some-sort
essence.
If there is "juju" in something, it's like power. Not Christian-by-god
power, but a power of its own, instilled by someone else, probably.
Someone can believe something has juju while others might not, and I'm sure
juju is unmeasurable in objective terms. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's a term for something having a magical or powerful-of-some-sort
essence.
If there is "juju" in something, it's like power. Not Christian-by-god
power, but a power of its own, instilled by someone else, probably.
Someone can believe something has juju while others might not, and I'm sure
juju is unmeasurable in objective terms. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elainegh8
Hi
BWs Elaine (UK)
Not Christian-by-god > power, but a power of its own, instilled by
someone else, probably.> > Someone can believe something has juju
while others might not, and I'm sure > juju is unmeasurable in
objective terms. <g>>
> Someone asked what ju-ju was.It was me. Thanks for the explanation,much appreciated.
BWs Elaine (UK)
> It's a term for something having a magical or powerful-of-some-sort > essence. > If there is "juju" in something, it's like power.
Not Christian-by-god > power, but a power of its own, instilled by
someone else, probably.> > Someone can believe something has juju
while others might not, and I'm sure > juju is unmeasurable in
objective terms. <g>>
> Sandra
Danielle Conger
Okay, speaking of book worship, which I freely and unabashedly admit...
I finally got some book shelves up in the living room after our move and
am in the midst of unpacking my book boxes. Ahhhhh....now it's finally
starting to feel like home. I love my books!
Who was it--Cicero?--who said a room without books is like a body
without a soul.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
I finally got some book shelves up in the living room after our move and
am in the midst of unpacking my book boxes. Ahhhhh....now it's finally
starting to feel like home. I love my books!
Who was it--Cicero?--who said a room without books is like a body
without a soul.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
Deb Lewis
***Who was it--Cicero?--who said a room without books is like a body
without a soul.***
Yes, Cicero. A friend sent this quote recently...
"Books are not made for furniture, but there is nothing else that so
beautifully furnishes a house. "
~Henry Ward Beecher ~ ...after seeing that my night stand is a stack of
books with a lamp on top. <g>
But my favorite book quote is by Groucho Marx:
"Outside of a dog a book is man's best. Inside of a dog it's too dark to
read. "
Deb L
without a soul.***
Yes, Cicero. A friend sent this quote recently...
"Books are not made for furniture, but there is nothing else that so
beautifully furnishes a house. "
~Henry Ward Beecher ~ ...after seeing that my night stand is a stack of
books with a lamp on top. <g>
But my favorite book quote is by Groucho Marx:
"Outside of a dog a book is man's best. Inside of a dog it's too dark to
read. "
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/30/05 9:09:44 AM, danielle.conger@... writes:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Who was it--Cicero?--who said a room without books is like a bodyThere was more soul in a book in Cicero's day than now.
> without a soul.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
elainegh8
I'm having to sell on some of my books as they turned from furniture
to wallpaper. I have too much stuff! Too many things and not enough
doing, that's my problem :S
Actually it's quite a nice feeling as I feel the weight of my
possesions lifting. It's been good for my dd too as I am calmer,
nicer to be around and have more time for her. :)
BWs Elaine (UK)
to wallpaper. I have too much stuff! Too many things and not enough
doing, that's my problem :S
Actually it's quite a nice feeling as I feel the weight of my
possesions lifting. It's been good for my dd too as I am calmer,
nicer to be around and have more time for her. :)
BWs Elaine (UK)
>so
> Yes, Cicero. A friend sent this quote recently...
> "Books are not made for furniture, but there is nothing else that
> beautifully furnishes a house. "stack of
> ~Henry Ward Beecher ~ ...after seeing that my night stand is a
> books with a lamp on top. <g>dark to
>
> But my favorite book quote is by Groucho Marx:
> "Outside of a dog a book is man's best. Inside of a dog it's too
> read. "
>
> Deb L