Schooling Unschoolers
nellebelle
I know a few homeschooling families who say that their children have chosen to use a curriulum - or attend school - , but consider it unschooling because the child chose it.
At what point is it no longer unschooling?
Mary Ellen
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At what point is it no longer unschooling?
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Mar 7, 2005, at 4:23 PM, nellebelle wrote:
unschooling. Unschooling is "not schooling."
But when unschoolers choose to attend school or use a curriculum, it is
a very different experience than it is for kids who are there with no
choice.
My daughters will identify themselves as unschoolers - they've been
raised as unschoolers for long enough that that is their identity - it
isn't just something they "do." They really truly feel there is a
definite difference between people who have been unschooled and those
who have been schooled - a difference that persists beyond school age.
But my daughter who is a full-time college student studying for a
specific degree is not "unschooling college." She is an unschooler who
is no longer unschooling.
-pam
> I know a few homeschooling families who say that their children haveAttending school is not unschooling. Using a full curriculum is not
> chosen to use a curriulum - or attend school - , but consider it
> unschooling because the child chose it.
>
> At what point is it no longer unschooling?
unschooling. Unschooling is "not schooling."
But when unschoolers choose to attend school or use a curriculum, it is
a very different experience than it is for kids who are there with no
choice.
My daughters will identify themselves as unschoolers - they've been
raised as unschoolers for long enough that that is their identity - it
isn't just something they "do." They really truly feel there is a
definite difference between people who have been unschooled and those
who have been schooled - a difference that persists beyond school age.
But my daughter who is a full-time college student studying for a
specific degree is not "unschooling college." She is an unschooler who
is no longer unschooling.
-pam
nellebelle
>>>>>>>>>But when unschoolers choose to attend school or use a curriculum, it isa very different experience than it is for kids who are there with no choice.>>>>>>>>>
Thanks. The post Pam wrote earlier 3/7 in response to YES, how unschooling works, also went a long way in answering my question, but I didn't see that one until after I wrote.
It seems that WHY a person is attending school or using a curriculum is more important than whether or not they are doing it, in terms of unschooling.
All too often I hear new unschoolers say that their child, often quite young, is choosing to go to school or *wants* a curriculum. It seems that the child isn't making an informed choice, really. But the families want to say that it is still unschooling because it is what the child wants.
On the other end, I've encountered some families whose older children have "chosen" to follow a curriculum, but it seems often to be in response to pressure from parents or elsewhere that it is the best way to prepare for their future. Again, I'm not convinced that the child is truly informed of all the possible options when making the choice. As in "go to college or end up at McDonalds", so the child chooses the college prep curriculum, not having support for choosing from the multitude of options between those two choices.
Mary Ellen
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Fetteroll
on 3/7/05 7:23 PM, nellebelle at nellebelle@... wrote:
people build up their own image of what unschooling is.
Helping people understand what unschooling is is like helping little kids
figure out what a dog is. Dogs come in so many different forms that I doubt
anyone could define "dog" in a way that a child could unerringly sort all
dogs from other animals properly. So we help them build up their own
criteria for what constitutes dog/not-dog and they refine that as they
encounter stranger breeds that push the edges of the understanding they're
building.
(And really that's how *any* learning works. We build up an image of what we
think it is and we test it (or it tests us!) and we refine it.)
Some unschooling kids will use workbooks and use school. But pointing to
workbooks and school won't help anyone understand what unschooling is.
Once someone understands unschooling then they don't need to ask if
workbooks and school are unschooling ;-) Because unschooling is defined by
true freedom to learn free from false ideas of what learning needs to look
like rather than what a child is doing.
Joyce
> It seems that WHY a person is attending school or using a curriculum is moreIdentifying what is and isn't unschooling on the list is a way of helping
> important than whether or not they are doing it, in terms of unschooling.
people build up their own image of what unschooling is.
Helping people understand what unschooling is is like helping little kids
figure out what a dog is. Dogs come in so many different forms that I doubt
anyone could define "dog" in a way that a child could unerringly sort all
dogs from other animals properly. So we help them build up their own
criteria for what constitutes dog/not-dog and they refine that as they
encounter stranger breeds that push the edges of the understanding they're
building.
(And really that's how *any* learning works. We build up an image of what we
think it is and we test it (or it tests us!) and we refine it.)
Some unschooling kids will use workbooks and use school. But pointing to
workbooks and school won't help anyone understand what unschooling is.
Once someone understands unschooling then they don't need to ask if
workbooks and school are unschooling ;-) Because unschooling is defined by
true freedom to learn free from false ideas of what learning needs to look
like rather than what a child is doing.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/2005 5:33:17 PM Mountain Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:
I know a few homeschooling families who say that their children have chosen
to use a curriulum - or attend school - , but consider it unschooling because
the child chose it.
At what point is it no longer unschooling?
==============
I don't personally think going to school is unschooling.
If Holly goes to 8th grade next year, I'll say "Holly's in school." She's
still going back and forth on it, and I'm thinking of writing to get her a
full-day visit, if the school will allow that; I got the principal's name from a
neighbor who's a teacher.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle@... writes:
I know a few homeschooling families who say that their children have chosen
to use a curriulum - or attend school - , but consider it unschooling because
the child chose it.
At what point is it no longer unschooling?
==============
I don't personally think going to school is unschooling.
If Holly goes to 8th grade next year, I'll say "Holly's in school." She's
still going back and forth on it, and I'm thinking of writing to get her a
full-day visit, if the school will allow that; I got the principal's name from a
neighbor who's a teacher.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/2005 8:52:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:
-=-It seems that WHY a person is attending school or using a curriculum is
more important than whether or not they are doing it, in terms of
unschooling.-=-
----------
It matters in real-life terms, more than "in terms of unschooling."
A child in a class (or a whole school) by her own choice and for her own
reasons will have a different experience there than a child who is there against
her will or without having considered she HAD a choice.
A child whose parents would rather her come home than stay there will have a
VERY different experience. The teachers had better be DAMNED nice and
entertaining and inspiring, or the kid is gone. Teachers aren't at all used to
that. But still, that child in school isn't unschooling.
-=-All too often I hear new unschoolers say that their child, often quite
young, is choosing to go to school or *wants* a curriculum. It seems that the
child isn't making an informed choice, really. But the families want to say
that it is still unschooling because it is what the child wants.
-=-
I agree. And the parents aren't either, if they think it's not harmful to
say "Okay, I'll teach you math a little each day." It's the path to more
lessons and more teaching, not to less.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle@... writes:
-=-It seems that WHY a person is attending school or using a curriculum is
more important than whether or not they are doing it, in terms of
unschooling.-=-
----------
It matters in real-life terms, more than "in terms of unschooling."
A child in a class (or a whole school) by her own choice and for her own
reasons will have a different experience there than a child who is there against
her will or without having considered she HAD a choice.
A child whose parents would rather her come home than stay there will have a
VERY different experience. The teachers had better be DAMNED nice and
entertaining and inspiring, or the kid is gone. Teachers aren't at all used to
that. But still, that child in school isn't unschooling.
-=-All too often I hear new unschoolers say that their child, often quite
young, is choosing to go to school or *wants* a curriculum. It seems that the
child isn't making an informed choice, really. But the families want to say
that it is still unschooling because it is what the child wants.
-=-
I agree. And the parents aren't either, if they think it's not harmful to
say "Okay, I'll teach you math a little each day." It's the path to more
lessons and more teaching, not to less.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lgbryk
I don't personally think going to school is unschooling.
If Holly goes to 8th grade next year, I'll say "Holly's in school." She's
still going back and forth on it, and I'm thinking of writing to get her a
full-day visit, if the school will allow that; I got the principal's name from a
neighbor who's a teacher.
Sandra
We live in NJ, and I don't know how things work in your state. But, my daughter was able to spend a day at our local regional high school. She went as a visitor with a student who went to the school. The girl had to request permission from each of her teachers. It was eye-opening to my daughter -- she liked the french class, probably because she is studying french at the local community college. She found the day very disjointed, moving from class to class -- never fully covering anything. In the grammar/reading class my daughter helped show the class how to read poetry with feeling -- the teacher was so impressed she invited my daughter back for a reading of Anne Frank. My dd has never had a reading/grammar class in her life. I found this quite amusing. It is doubtful that my daughter will go, she said she attempted to read the book a while ago, and found it too hard (emotionally) on her. All in all her visit to the local high school was another experience in life, that she doesn't feel she needs to explore any further.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If Holly goes to 8th grade next year, I'll say "Holly's in school." She's
still going back and forth on it, and I'm thinking of writing to get her a
full-day visit, if the school will allow that; I got the principal's name from a
neighbor who's a teacher.
Sandra
We live in NJ, and I don't know how things work in your state. But, my daughter was able to spend a day at our local regional high school. She went as a visitor with a student who went to the school. The girl had to request permission from each of her teachers. It was eye-opening to my daughter -- she liked the french class, probably because she is studying french at the local community college. She found the day very disjointed, moving from class to class -- never fully covering anything. In the grammar/reading class my daughter helped show the class how to read poetry with feeling -- the teacher was so impressed she invited my daughter back for a reading of Anne Frank. My dd has never had a reading/grammar class in her life. I found this quite amusing. It is doubtful that my daughter will go, she said she attempted to read the book a while ago, and found it too hard (emotionally) on her. All in all her visit to the local high school was another experience in life, that she doesn't feel she needs to explore any further.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nicole Willoughby
SandraDodd@... wrote:
I agree. And the parents aren't either, if they think it's not harmful to
say "Okay, I'll teach you math a little each day." It's the path to more
lessons and more teaching, not to less>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I want to ask for opinions here because maybe I dont fully understand unschooling.
My daughter has some anxiety about needing to learn to read ( I honestly dont know where she got it from ). After many requests I got headsprout reading for her. She had a lot of fun with it untill episode 35 and quit ( there are 40 episodes) She was always free to come and go as she pleased and she is now back in read to me mode.
I never pressured her to do it but I think headsprout was a good experience for her. It think it removed a lot of her anxiety and she feels confident to explore reading on her own now .
Now i hate to put things in categories but her new thing seems to be science concepts. Her questions lately have been about volcanoes, where does gas go when the car runs out? What is water made out of?
If there is oxygen in water why can we breathe it?
So as a means to answer her questions I will go get books, find info and mini movies on the internet, etc. If she is interested at the moment Ill talk more about it and we will look at even more things relating to the subject. If she says no I want to make dominoe rallies right now I leave her to it .
Nicole
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree. And the parents aren't either, if they think it's not harmful to
say "Okay, I'll teach you math a little each day." It's the path to more
lessons and more teaching, not to less>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I want to ask for opinions here because maybe I dont fully understand unschooling.
My daughter has some anxiety about needing to learn to read ( I honestly dont know where she got it from ). After many requests I got headsprout reading for her. She had a lot of fun with it untill episode 35 and quit ( there are 40 episodes) She was always free to come and go as she pleased and she is now back in read to me mode.
I never pressured her to do it but I think headsprout was a good experience for her. It think it removed a lot of her anxiety and she feels confident to explore reading on her own now .
Now i hate to put things in categories but her new thing seems to be science concepts. Her questions lately have been about volcanoes, where does gas go when the car runs out? What is water made out of?
If there is oxygen in water why can we breathe it?
So as a means to answer her questions I will go get books, find info and mini movies on the internet, etc. If she is interested at the moment Ill talk more about it and we will look at even more things relating to the subject. If she says no I want to make dominoe rallies right now I leave her to it .
Nicole
---------------------------------
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/8/2005 10:36:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
lgbryk@... writes:
All in all her visit to the local high school was another experience in
life, that she doesn't feel she needs to explore any further.
---------
I think it might be that way for Holly, too.
It just occurred to me that I could arrange for her to have a day at Sandia
Prep, too, a private school, to be there all day with another student. The
danger there is if she loved it a lot, I'd be sad because we can't afford it.
But if she just goes as an anthropologist or tourist, that's okay. <G>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lgbryk@... writes:
All in all her visit to the local high school was another experience in
life, that she doesn't feel she needs to explore any further.
---------
I think it might be that way for Holly, too.
It just occurred to me that I could arrange for her to have a day at Sandia
Prep, too, a private school, to be there all day with another student. The
danger there is if she loved it a lot, I'd be sad because we can't afford it.
But if she just goes as an anthropologist or tourist, that's okay. <G>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/8/2005 7:40:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
As in "go to college or end up at McDonalds", so the child chooses the
college prep curriculum, not having support for choosing from the multitude of
options between those two choices.
**********************
This reminds me of what I used to say early on in our unschooling when
people would ask, incredulously, if we did ANY structured learning.
I'd explain that yes, we were doing an important unit on Multicultural
Vocational Homeschooling Education: I was teaching Julian to say "Do you want
fries with that?" in fourteen languages.
Generally they would laugh and then drop it.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
As in "go to college or end up at McDonalds", so the child chooses the
college prep curriculum, not having support for choosing from the multitude of
options between those two choices.
**********************
This reminds me of what I used to say early on in our unschooling when
people would ask, incredulously, if we did ANY structured learning.
I'd explain that yes, we were doing an important unit on Multicultural
Vocational Homeschooling Education: I was teaching Julian to say "Do you want
fries with that?" in fourteen languages.
Generally they would laugh and then drop it.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<<My daughter has some anxiety about needing to learn to read ( I
honestly dont know where she got it from ). After many requests I got
headsprout reading for her. She had a lot of fun with it untill episode 35
and quit ( there are 40 episodes) She was always free to come and go as she
pleased and she is now back in read to me mode.
I never pressured her to do it but I think headsprout was a good experience
for her. It think it removed a lot of her anxiety and she feels confident to
explore reading on her own now .
Now i hate to put things in categories but her new thing seems to be science
concepts. Her questions lately have been about volcanoes, where does gas go
when the car runs out? What is water made out of?
If there is oxygen in water why can we breathe it?
So as a means to answer her questions I will go get books, find info and
mini movies on the internet, etc. If she is interested at the moment Ill
talk more about it and we will look at even more things relating to the
subject. If she says no I want to make dominoe rallies right now I leave her
to it . >>>>>>
This is another of those posts where I kept waiting in vain for the problem
to be revealed. Sounds like a bunch of great Unschooling moments and great
parental facilitating.
Still worried? Keep on posting about your days like this. Then next time you
get anxiety you can refer back to your own experiences for reassurance.
Robyn L. Coburn
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honestly dont know where she got it from ). After many requests I got
headsprout reading for her. She had a lot of fun with it untill episode 35
and quit ( there are 40 episodes) She was always free to come and go as she
pleased and she is now back in read to me mode.
I never pressured her to do it but I think headsprout was a good experience
for her. It think it removed a lot of her anxiety and she feels confident to
explore reading on her own now .
Now i hate to put things in categories but her new thing seems to be science
concepts. Her questions lately have been about volcanoes, where does gas go
when the car runs out? What is water made out of?
If there is oxygen in water why can we breathe it?
So as a means to answer her questions I will go get books, find info and
mini movies on the internet, etc. If she is interested at the moment Ill
talk more about it and we will look at even more things relating to the
subject. If she says no I want to make dominoe rallies right now I leave her
to it . >>>>>>
This is another of those posts where I kept waiting in vain for the problem
to be revealed. Sounds like a bunch of great Unschooling moments and great
parental facilitating.
Still worried? Keep on posting about your days like this. Then next time you
get anxiety you can refer back to your own experiences for reassurance.
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.4 - Release Date: 3/7/2005