Meg Grooms

My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of dysgraphia. I wont get into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very difficult for her. In fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable sounding manner is difficult most of the time.

I wouldn't be worried about it except she becomes very upset that her younger friends can read and write better than she can, it's very apparent to her.

Does anyone have any suggestions for helping or book suggestions? I want to help her over this hurdle but I feel so unqualified.

TIA!

Meg G


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Fetteroll

on 2/15/05 2:34 PM, Meg Grooms at habby_cat@... wrote:

> My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of dysgraphia. I wont get
> into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very difficult for her. In
> fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable sounding manner is difficult most
> of the time.

My 13 yo daughter has always had a passion for creative writing and drawing.
But up until she was 11 or so she told me how much she hated writing --
sometimes meaning handwriting, sometimes meaning getting thoughts out of her
head onto paper -- because it wasn't effortless. She went to school for 2
months of 2nd grade and the looks of her handwriting improved but it didn't
become easier. And when she stopped school, her handwriting reverted to what
it was. At 9 she may have even been still reversing some letters. But even
though she hated writing she did (still does) a lot of it.

But around 11 or so writing and typing started becoming easier and at 13 it
seems effortless. At least she hasn't mentioned any difficulties for quite
some time.

I'd like to be able to tell your daughter that practice will help, but for
my daughter who did do a *lot* of writing the thing that helped the most was
time. Her brain needed to mature and all the practice in the world wasn't
going to speed that up.

> I wouldn't be worried about it except she becomes very upset that her younger
> friends can read and write better than she can, it's very apparent to her.

The kids for whom writing comes easily won't be shy about writing in front
of her.

But the kids who can't write, who get humiliated in class because they
can't, who hate writing because they've been forced to write are not going
to write around her!

Analogies usually don't work well on younger kids but you could try! 9 mo
kids usually can't walk. But if there were a room of 20 9 mo and you were
standing in the hall and one walked out, you might think, "Wow, 9 mo kids
can walk!" But that wouldn't be a true picture of what 9 mo can do. You'd
only be seeing the exceptional one, not the other 19 who were in there
sitting on their butts or crawling around.

Joyce

nellebelle

I think it is ridiculous to diagnose a 9 year old with a writing disorder. They are still developing physically. To use Joyce's example, that is like saying that a 7 month old baby has a "walking disorder".

If she has ideas (stories, poems, essays) that she wants to get out of her head and recorded somehow, there are plenty of options. Tape recorders, typing, someone else writing it down for her (I have typed up things my kids have said into a tape recorder), voice recording mp3 players, Sound Recorder (look under accesories in your computer's program files - this one is a blast!), Kid Pix.

If someone else is telling her she must be writing, they are wrong.

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/15/05 11:49:16 PM, habby_cat@... writes:

<< My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of dysgraphia. I wont
get into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very difficult for her.
In fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable sounding manner is difficult
most of the time. >>

I have vivid memories of being her age. I was the best writer in my class,
and my greatest achievement was a four or five page story. Some kids couldn't
construct a sentence. She's only nine, and I think you're encouraging her
to expect too much of herself.

If you're asking her to write, stop asking her to. It will come later.
If she wants to write, get her on the computer and forget handwriting for now.

-=-I wouldn't be worried about it except she becomes very upset that her
younger friends can read and write better than she can, it's very apparent to
her.-=-

Are those friends in school? Are they writing anything real, or just
homework? Will they still want to read and write in ten years?

Remind her of the things she can do better than her younger friends can.
Take her off the assembly line. Take her out of sight of the assembly line.
It's a facade anyway, as only a small percentage of kids are "at grade level" and
most are not.

-=-Does anyone have any suggestions for helping or book suggestions? I want
to help her over this hurdle but I feel so unqualified.-=-

Remove the hurdle, get off the course, don't even go the direction of the
hurdle. Cross through the fence and go out into the world.

Hurdles are unnatural, fake little fences put in a race course for horses or
people to jump over. To be thinking in terms of "hurdles" is not the
direction you need to go for natural learning to take hold in your lives.

Sandra

Heidi

Hi Meg

We have a ten year old girl who doesn't read yet (I almost
wrote "Still not reading" but that is SO school mentality, and I'm
working on erasing that from my thoughts)...she doesn't read yet, and
you should see her pack a suitcase, or find any item in any spot in
the house. Her spatial sense is lightyears ahead of MY linear, two
dimensional brain. She also listens to books on tape endlessly, is
hankering for guitar lessons (which she will start, this year) and
has an amazing way with numbers.

And...her younger friends, a lot of them can read and write, but she
is accepting of herself. She even told a Sunday school group, when
introducing herself, that she has dyslexia.

start noticing your girl's strengths, and remind her of them if she
gets frustrated. And let time pass. I'm confident that she will "get
it" and when she does, she's gonna blow you away.

It's hard,though, isn't it? Hard to shake that school mentality that
wants our kids to be "caught up" with the other kids. Well, I betcha
that your girl is leagues ahead of her reading peers, in some way or
in many ways, most likely.

blessings, HeidiC
p.s. a book suggestion: anything about different minds/learning
styles. I'm reading Dr. Mel Levine right now, but there are others
out there. Also, read something about simply observing your children.
John Holt is the author I have read, and he's got some kindly,
avuncular advice about letting them be and simply observing them, not
worrying about where they are or are not in the spectrum of
abilities.

The book I read about dyslexia, that made a difference for myself and
my girl "The Gift of Dyslexia" can't remember the author. But it's a
good un.


--- In [email protected], Meg Grooms
<habby_cat@y...> wrote:
>
>
> My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of dysgraphia.
I wont get into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very
difficult for her. In fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable
sounding manner is difficult most of the time.
>
> I wouldn't be worried about it except she becomes very upset that
her younger friends can read and write better than she can, it's very
apparent to her.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for helping or book suggestions?
I want to help her over this hurdle but I feel so unqualified.
>
> TIA!
>
> Meg G
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joni Zander

I just checked out a book from the library last night called, "The Gift
of Dyslexia" by Ronald D. Davis. I've read about 2/3 of it, and so far
like a lot of what he is saying. It seems to go along with the thread
we had on here last week. Of course, his assumption is that the kids
are being forced to read by age 6 in school, and talks about how
letting kids wait until 11 or so will help.

One of the things he does in the book is to explain what is happening
to a dyslexic while reading - they are seeing pictures as they read,
and when they come to certain words (a little over 200 of them, that he
calls Key Triggers for Disorientation - words that don't easily have a
picture associated with them), they become disoriented and their
picture that they've been building fails. So, in his example, "The
brown horse jumped over the stone fence and ran through the pasture",
the reader starts out seeing a brown blob that turns into a horse, then
jumps in the air, then sees a stone that turns into a fence. At the
"and" the picture can disappear, then the reader could see himself
running, then confused, sees something being thrown, then a large piece
of grass. Very interesting.

Anyway, he also addresses (in a small way) dysgraphia and dyscalculia.

It could help, and probably won't hurt.

Joni Zander
FotoCEO@...


> My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of dysgraphia. I
> wont get into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very
> difficult for her. In fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable
> sounding manner is difficult most of the time.
>
> I wouldn't be worried about it except she becomes very upset that her
> younger friends can read and write better than she can, it's very
> apparent to her.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for helping or book suggestions? I
> want to help her over this hurdle but I feel so unqualified.

Heidi

Hi Joni

I read this book, too, when I began to suspect that my 10 y.o. has
dyslexia. It was eye opening for me, both his own story (He figured
out what the spaces between words were, as an adult. Went straight
from being a slow/non-reader, to checking out Treasure Island and
reading it in three hours, or some such) and his assertion that
dyslexics see three dimensionally, all the time. This works fine,
when a person recognizes a lump of fur in the corner as a kitten, but
it throws them off when they are confronted with two dimensional
symbols. What *is* that A on the page? What does its backside look
like? and their brains are trying to see a third dimension in a two
dimensional figure.

My Katie definitely thinks in pictures. She's always making maps of
her room, with arrows pointing to where she wants to move the desk.
If she wants to grasp the ideas in something written, she asks me to
draw pictures of it, and then she gets it immediately.

I'm so glad I checked back in here. It's reminded me that I wasn't
going to worry about Katie's late-reading.

blessings, HeidiC

--- In [email protected], Joni Zander
<fotoceo@c...> wrote:
> I just checked out a book from the library last night called, "The
Gift
> of Dyslexia" by Ronald D. Davis. I've read about 2/3 of it, and so
far
> like a lot of what he is saying. It seems to go along with the
thread
> we had on here last week. Of course, his assumption is that the
kids
> are being forced to read by age 6 in school, and talks about how
> letting kids wait until 11 or so will help.
>
> One of the things he does in the book is to explain what is
happening
> to a dyslexic while reading - they are seeing pictures as they
read,
>

ecsamhill

> My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of dysgraphia.
I wont get into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very
difficult for her. In fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable
sounding manner is difficult most of the time.

Hi, Meg --

I posted after Xmas that my almost 11 year old boy didn't write at
all. (And I mean barely wrote his name. Wrote maybe less than a
dozen words all year.)

Well, I had a re-affirming moment that I wanted to share with the list
because it was such an unschooling cliche. <smile>

What did he want to write? A 100 word character description for a
warrior character for the roleplaying game Heroquest!

He wrote ten times more than he had written in one sitting before, and
he asked for help with spelling and (some) letter orientation without
feeling self-conscious. I feel better. (I had been concerned that he
physically couldn't write, but now I see that he, as they say, "can if
he wants to". Something that I was having a hard time taking on
faith.)

Your mileage may vary. Every kid is different. My husband has very
tortured handwriting and may have dysgraphia, although in college he
could type complete term papers in one draft, pure stream of
consciousness. Well written papers, even. (This was before word
processors!)

Betsy

PS I think I can see the influence of Calvin and Hobbes in my kids
writing style. <g> Which I probably could have predicted, had I been
thinking clearly

Meg Grooms

Wow.
Did I say someone else told her she should be writing?

Nope, in fact, it was SHE who approached ME and asked ME to help her
write better, so I'm just following her lead.

Meg

--- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
<nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> I think it is ridiculous to diagnose a 9 year old with a writing
disorder. They are still developing physically. To use Joyce's
example, that is like saying that a 7 month old baby has a "walking
disorder".
>
> If she has ideas (stories, poems, essays) that she wants to get
out of her head and recorded somehow, there are plenty of options.
Tape recorders, typing, someone else writing it down for her (I have
typed up things my kids have said into a tape recorder), voice
recording mp3 players, Sound Recorder (look under accesories in your
computer's program files - this one is a blast!), Kid Pix.
>
> If someone else is telling her she must be writing, they are wrong.
>
> Mary Ellen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meg Grooms

Thanks for the kind and understanding reply, Heidi :)

I approach life a lot like this, focusing on the strengths...I just
wanted some help in getting her the help she asked for.

Meg

--- In [email protected], "Heidi"
<bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
>
> Hi Meg
>
> We have a ten year old girl who doesn't read yet (I almost
> wrote "Still not reading" but that is SO school mentality, and I'm
> working on erasing that from my thoughts)...she doesn't read yet,
and
> you should see her pack a suitcase, or find any item in any spot
in
> the house. Her spatial sense is lightyears ahead of MY linear, two
> dimensional brain. She also listens to books on tape endlessly, is
> hankering for guitar lessons (which she will start, this year) and
> has an amazing way with numbers.
>
> And...her younger friends, a lot of them can read and write, but
she
> is accepting of herself. She even told a Sunday school group, when
> introducing herself, that she has dyslexia.
>
> start noticing your girl's strengths, and remind her of them if
she
> gets frustrated. And let time pass. I'm confident that she
will "get
> it" and when she does, she's gonna blow you away.
>
> It's hard,though, isn't it? Hard to shake that school mentality
that
> wants our kids to be "caught up" with the other kids. Well, I
betcha
> that your girl is leagues ahead of her reading peers, in some way
or
> in many ways, most likely.
>
> blessings, HeidiC
> p.s. a book suggestion: anything about different minds/learning
> styles. I'm reading Dr. Mel Levine right now, but there are others
> out there. Also, read something about simply observing your
children.
> John Holt is the author I have read, and he's got some kindly,
> avuncular advice about letting them be and simply observing them,
not
> worrying about where they are or are not in the spectrum of
> abilities.
>
> The book I read about dyslexia, that made a difference for myself
and
> my girl "The Gift of Dyslexia" can't remember the author. But it's
a
> good un.
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Meg Grooms
> <habby_cat@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of
dysgraphia.
> I wont get into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very
> difficult for her. In fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable
> sounding manner is difficult most of the time.
> >
> > I wouldn't be worried about it except she becomes very upset
that
> her younger friends can read and write better than she can, it's
very
> apparent to her.
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for helping or book
suggestions?
> I want to help her over this hurdle but I feel so unqualified.
> >
> > TIA!
> >
> > Meg G
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Hill

Can we talk about "scaffolding" (as PamS sometimes has) as a technique
for supporting learning in unschooling families? I think I might be
ready to "get it" now. <g> I think before I was too much of a knee-jerk
Rousseauvian and that interfered with my ability to really embrace the
idea. A little more scaffolding might be just what I need around here...

Betsy

nellebelle

>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wow.
Did I say someone else told her she should be writing?
Nope, in fact, it was SHE who approached ME and asked ME to help her write better, so I'm just following her lead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wow.

Don't take it personally. I've never met you or your daughter and have no idea what writing experiences or lack of them your daughter has had. I was responding to a post with some ideas that might help. If they don't seem like ideas that would work for you, just delete them.

If you read my post again you might notice that I said "IF" "If someone else is telling her she must be writing, they are wrong."

I stand by my belief that age 9 is too young to diagnose with a writing disorder, if there even is such a thing.

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On Feb 17, 2005, at 11:27 AM, Meg Grooms wrote:

> Wow.
> Did I say someone else told her she should be writing?
>
> Nope, in fact, it was SHE who approached ME and asked ME to help her
> write better, so I'm just following her lead.

Meg - it was just one possible assumption. I think the post said, "IF
someone is telling her she should be writing."

People posting can always correct mistaken assumptions and we can
continue to talk about it with that information so that the discussion
can be more focused - but, there are almost certainly people out there
whose kids ARE being told they should be writing, so the other
responses might be useful for them.

-pam

julie w

You know if the frustration is coming from her and her own, in born need
to write things out better, there are somethings she could try.
Sometimes those pencil grip thingees work.
It can just be caused by poor muscle condition so playing with those
koosh things might help and soft, smooshy balls. Push ups against the
wall for the lower forearms.
There is the whole "body work" stuff with cross-crawling that some folks
say have helped their kids...ummm "Brain-Gym" I think its called.

Julie W in AR

Meg Grooms wrote:

>
>
> My almost 9 yr old is suspected of having some form of dysgraphia. I
> wont get into the symptoms right now, but it makes writing very
> difficult for her. In fact, getting thoughts out in a reasonable
> sounding manner is difficult most of the time.
>
> I wouldn't be worried about it except she becomes very upset that her
> younger friends can read and write better than she can, it's very
> apparent to her.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for helping or book suggestions? I
> want to help her over this hurdle but I feel so unqualified.
>
> TIA!
>
> Meg G
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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