arcarpenter2003

I need some guidance regarding my highly sensitive son, age 7. I've
read Raising Your Spirited Child, and I'm getting a handle on my son's
intense and wonderful personality, but the holidays do add some stress.

Some background: he very rarely wants to leave the house, and we
respect that. I never ask him to go grocery shopping or errand
running -- even when my husband is out of town, I hire someone to
watch my boys so I can get those things done. I offer only things
that might be fun to him, and he usually refuses those as well. If
it's something that we've planned with other people (extremely rare --
less than once per month), I gently work with him through his crying
and resistance (let him wear his pajamas in the car, take a snack and
GameBoy and stuffed animal) -- and then when we get there, he has a
*great* time. So often, it feels like an outing is just what he
needed, but I respect that the transition is very difficult for him
right now, and I don't push it.

Being around other people seems hard for him right now, too. The last
few times we've been at extended family gatherings, he's played for a
bit and then really locked into "I want to go home." We haven't even
finished our meal, so we try to find things for him -- the TV in
Grandma's basement is a big one -- until we can finish up.

Now the holidays are here. During present opening and dinner, his
grandparents and aunts and uncles would, I'm sure, really like to
interact with him, at least a little. I'm guessing that they'll try,
and he knows them all quite well. But right now he's very shy, and it
comes across as "rude." I'm a bit worried (breathe) that he's going
to get overwhelmed and have an awful time, and cause quite a bit of
irritation in others at the same time.

At Live and Learn 2004, Anne Ohman talked about how she prepared her
son for such gatherings, and then helped him through it, and then
debriefed with him afterwards. I'm looking for some specifics along
these lines.

Also: much of Fisher's spirited personality became apparent to others
right around the time that we began unschooling. I'm starting to pick
up hints that people think that our "lenience" is the cause of this
"unpleasantness." (I don't think he's unpleasant, but I think they
are starting to.) To be honest, it hurts to see my son not
appreciated by his own family -- usually a pretty loving group.

I'm looking for some suggestions in answering their concerns. There's
so much content to the belief and philosophy of unschooling, and I'm
trying to find the focus in relation to this. Here's where I'm going
so far: I think unschooling will give him the room to learn to deal
with his own personality and sensitivity. In a few years I expect
that he'll be a lot more comfortable in social situations -- but he
needs this time to work through it on his own terms.

Thoughts on that?

Thanks in advance,
Amy

Elizabeth Hill

** Now the holidays are here...**

Are your family gatherings pretty predictable? Can you start talking
about the events that happened last year in a way that will help him
anticipate what will happen this year, in a mostly positive way?

(I probably wouldn't take a kid into a situation that I thought was most
likely to be negative. I have a history of unpleasant scenes with my
father's family and I'm visiting them without my kid this year.) (But
he has a health issue that helps me duck the direct insult.)

** Also: much of Fisher's spirited personality became apparent to others
right around the time that we began unschooling. I'm starting to pick
up hints that people think that our "lenience" is the cause of this
"unpleasantness." **

I would probably do gentle redirecting or suggesting better behavior
loudly enough that the audience can hear it. This shows that you aren't
just accepting and promoting that behavior.

I live in a relatively warm state, so just stepping outside and walking
around the block is feasible when we have "too much family" and too much
noise at the holidays. I realize this is a less attractive option where
it's wetter or colder. But I do have one adult relative who will
routinely go to one of the bedrooms and rest or nap halfway through
family events. Some people might think "How rude!", but I think "How
sensible!"

** I'm looking for some suggestions in answering their concerns.**

I think you may have to break it into two parts. The first part would
be just hearing their concerns, when your son isn't around. Letting
them talk for a long time or asking follow up questions can help make
things clearer. (The first sentence they offer may be the harshest
one. It doesn't necessarily get worse as the conversation continues.)
Taking their comments back to their personal experience or their core
values can help you comprehend their point of view, even if it is
strange or obnoxious. Sometimes letting the conversation get deeper can
also narrow down the criticism, and I think focused criticism is easier
to discuss than broad criticism is. I think at this point maybe the
best you can hope for is to say "I understand your concern". Take time
until the next gathering to get perfectly calm and offer "answers" to
the concerns, if you feel you have to. You don't *owe* them answers,
and you can't always change their minds about how *they* would approach
parenting even with the best damn answers ever written.

Betsy

PS Don't let them play "pin the blame on the mommy" with you.
Everything your child does is not caused by you (or by unschooling).

Deb Lewis

***Being around other people seems hard for him right now, too. ***

Will the festivities be at your house this year?

Do you have enough room and a place he'd feel comfortable by himself so
he could escape the crowd if he needed to? If you could set up a room
that was his hide away, make a cozy place to sit, good lighting if he
wanted to read or play, a TV, etc. he might feel better. He might not
need to use it, just knowing it was there might be enough.

You could stash it with a cooler and drinks and snacks before guests
arrive. And when you notice he's slipped away you could sneak in with
top secret cookies or something so he knows you're connected to him, even
when he's removed himself from the rest of the group.

Dylan used to go under the eaves. Upstairs we have these little Hobbit
doors that allow access to the long storage space under the eaves and we
kept toys in there. He had a little inflatable mattress and his favorite
blankets and when we had a lot of people over he liked being able to slip
away for little bits of time. Sometimes I or his dad would go up and
knock on the door and visit a bit and usually he'd come down shortly
after, ready to participate again.

If you won't be at home will you at least have your own room where you're
staying? You could let him know he could hang out in there if he needed
to.

Or in your car, if it's warm enough outside.

We used to take a little tent along, a kid tent, and set it up for Dylan
in some out of the way place and put his blankets and favorite toys in
there.
This might not work as well if there are other kids around. They might
want to be in the tent too, but if it's mostly big people the tent can be
really cool because he can still listen in on conversations, but be in
his own secret place.

Let him know you'll go outside with him if he needs to get out. Go for a
walk. Arrange with your partner to manage things while you're gone and
take off for twenty or thirty minutes. The people in the house are going
to have each other and be busy with conversation or whatever and won't
really be thinking of how long you're gone.

Does he ride a bike? Can you take it with you. If it's snowy, take a
sled. You can pull him around in the yard or street if there are no
hills.

This is an age thing and it will pass for the most part. There are
family members that just aren't that much fun to be around let alone have
to make nice with when you're seven. (Or forty one<g>)

***I'm looking for some suggestions in answering their concerns. ***

If your son is getting frustrated or excited and you think it might
escalate you can sneak a away to a quiet part of the house and talk a bit
until he seems calmer.

If the problem is mostly the expectation others have of how your kid
should be, just stop them.
I once said, very sweetly to my brother in law, when he was expressing
his concern Dylan was playing PlayStation too much (on Christmas day, the
day he received it!) "I'm sorry you're not having a good time, if you'd
like to go that's perfectly ok with me." <G> He stayed and he was
nicer.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time discussing the unschooling philosophy
unless it was really apparent someone was genuinely interested. Most
people who feel the need to tell us there's something wrong with our kids
don't really care about our philosophy. They care about getting the kid
to do what they want him to do at the moment. That's not a kid problem.
I'd probably just say, "Look, it's Christmas, things are hectic, give
him a break."

You know your son is wonderful. You understand him and you'd like
everyone to be able to understand him. If it's too hard this year make
different plans next year. And it probably won't matter to your son. He
likely will not even notice if people think he's being antisocial. If
you can get past it in a calm and direct way you'll feel better.
Everyone is feeling more stress at Christmas, with travel and late hours
and too much food and excitement. A loving pat on your concerned
uncle's arm and a reminder your son is only seven might be all it takes.


Deb L

[email protected]

Hi- my name is Kirsten and as recommended, I've just been reading the
messages posted for a few weeks without posting. This is partly because I'm new to
homeschooling in general and even newer to the concept of unschooling, though
it seems to be close to what we've been doing from the start. Anyway, after
reading Amy's story about her sensitive son, I simply had to write back. I too
have a highly sensitive son, and without going into detail about his
condition, let me recommend a book that gave me the greatest insight into his
personality and how to make his environment more user friendly. It's called The
Explosive Child by Dr. Ross Green. There is also a website for Parents and Teachers
of Explosive Kids at www.explosivekids.org. We struggled with my son having
meltdowns at school, due to his inability to change gears, and low threshold
for frustration. After discovering this book, we had a better understanding
of Skyler and what he needed, but it took me until the beginning of this school
year to realize the school could not think outside the box enough to provide
for him. Thankfully you are already unschooling- which has helped Skyler
truly draw upon his strengths, rather than highlighting his weaknesses. It sounds
as if you already have a grasp of your son's temperament and are probably
doing all the right things to help him. Perhaps this book can give you the
language to explain his needs to your family. If you can't convince them that your
methods are best, at least they can be respectful of the way you are helping
him. Try to have confidence in your choices. That confidence will be more
convincing to unsure relatives. As for your specific problems with the
holidays, the book will describe a process called collaborative problem solving where
your child can help you find alternative solutions. You will be amazed how
well the child knows what he needs and can handle. I liked the advice of giving
him an escape from the crowds and noise. And if you decide the whole thing
would be too much, let your relatives know that he becomes painfully anxious
during these events, and perhaps you can bring him to visit them separately.
Small, one on one visits may be more enjoyable for everyone involved. Design
the visit around an activity your son enjoys, in an environment he feels most
safe and in control. Discuss with him ahead of time what behavior is expected-
as long as that behavior is within his consistent ability. For those
relatives who lack the compassion, or education to understand your son's needs, you
could resort to giving it a name like anxiety disorder. I've found that medical
labels, while otherwise useless, can serve to impress and silence those
cherished but ignorant relatives and friends. Well, anyway, please check out that
book and website. It sounds like you are way ahead of me- it took so long for
me to get where you are already. I had to unlearn so much of my own
upbringing. OK, I'm done now- good luck.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/20/04 8:44:12 AM, arcarpenter@... writes:

<< Here's where I'm going

so far: I think unschooling will give him the room to learn to deal

with his own personality and sensitivity. >>

But too much room can be uncomfortable, and you already know he likes being
home and in familiar circumstances, where things are quiet.

So if you're out and about what is the most enclosed and familiar place he
could be for a re-charge and a rest? Your lap.

If he's too old to sit in your lap, find times every half hour or so to get
him aside and sit with him, hug him, touch his hair maybe (for lots of people
that's comforting--maybe you could comb his hair, and smell it, and say nice
things to him, and then go back out into the fray). Sometimes still, with my
kids all teens, if it looks like one is starting to be uncomfortable or
agitated, I'll ask for help to get something out of the car, or ask him or her to
come in the back yard to see something. My mother-in-law has desert tortoises in
her back yard, and that makes a peaceful break and opportunity for me to chat
with a kid who otherwise might start to get antsy to go home. Those things
were even easier when they were littler. "Let's go play with the dog," or if
there's an ice run or grocery store trip needed, volunteer and take your kid(s).

Even during the event you can take a little time out to review what's
happening next and what's expected of them, so that it's in shorter units than all
day. Young kids aren't clear on lengths of time like four hours or six hours or
"until tomorrow." They need smaller blocks of preparation.

-=-right now he's very shy, and it

comes across as "rude." I'm a bit worried (breathe) that he's going

to get overwhelmed and have an awful time, and cause quite a bit of

irritation in others at the same time.-=-

If he's really sensitive he might sense if you're worried about it too, which
will make a feedback loop back and forth between you. If you coach him with
even a few specific phrases to use, you can both feel more comfortable.
Maybe one of the coaching moments could be what to do if he can't think of
anything to say at all and starts to panic. Maybe he could say "Just a minute" and
go and talk to you for a bit.

When my kids were little and going to birthday parties we would talk about
things to say when you get there, and that way they weren't just reciting what I
had said, but had a range of reasonable greetings and the reason for them.
"Happy Birthday" or "Thanks for inviting me." Then when they were leaving,
they would (if they remembered) say "I had a good time," or something more
specific. Sometimes I would (and still) say something like that when entering or
leaving their rooms, and that reinforces the little courtesies some people
don't easily figure out on their own. If Holly invites me in to see something
she's arranged, or drawn, or to see something new in her rat cage, I often say
"Thanks for showing me that!" or "That was fun, thanks," when I'm leaving.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/20/04 10:49:39 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< Don't let them play "pin the blame on the mommy" with you.

Everything your child does is not caused by you (or by unschooling).>>

This is true, but I will admit to having seen some people just not watch
their kids or not coach them very well at all and say it's because they're
unschooling, and that's unfortunate for all concerned. "They'll grow out of it" is
another probably truth, but leaving them to grow out of it without direct and
regular assistance seems cruel to me.

Social situations do have some requirements that anyone who attends should be
aware of, and I don't see an advantage of a parent saying "That's just the
way he is" while she's in the other room visiting with adults. I'm not saying
that's happening here or being recommended, but there IS the other side of the
situation, which is that if the child can't be happy and productive in and of
a social gathering, either the mom should hold him the whole time or have him
sit next to her the whole time or not have him there until he can handle it
better.

We found public places better than homes. In a person's home there be
unguesseable rule and expectations. Our kids violated protocol just too much at my
in-laws' when they were little, but if we went to a miniature golf course or a
restaurant with things for kids to do, everyone got along better.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/20/04 11:36:13 AM, ddzimlew@... writes:

<< There are
family members that just aren't that much fun to be around let alone have
to make nice with when you're seven. (Or forty one<g>) >>

AMEN!
Sometimes I get antsy and am ready to go home from a party too early, and I'm
51. So that's when I go and look at the books on their bookshelves, or carry
dishes or trash to the kitchen, or something where I am being busy and
solitary.

Sandra

Elizabeth Hill

** If you could set up a room
that was his hide away, make a cozy place to sit, good lighting if he
wanted to read or play, a TV, etc. he might feel better. He might not
need to use it, just knowing it was there might be enough.

You could stash it with a cooler and drinks and snacks before guests
arrive. **

I personally like the idea of a food stash. One of the hardest things
for me in social situations, esp. those that involve foods like turkey
that take forever, is waiting and waiting for a meal when becoming
hungry and tired. I don't always stay calm and happy with this as an
adult, and in theory I have more mature coping skills than a child. <g>

Betsy

arcarpenter2003

Kirsten,

Welcome and thank you for the book recommendation. I will check it out!

Peace,
Amy

--- In [email protected], kish95@a... wrote:
>
> let me recommend a book that gave me the greatest insight into his
> personality and how to make his environment more user friendly.
It's called The
> Explosive Child by Dr. Ross Green.

arcarpenter2003

I agree. In the heat of the moment, I find myself torn by 1) a
feeling of helplessness and 2) trying to respect where Fisher is and
3) wishing I could find the magic button to just make the tantrum
noise (which hurts my ears) go away.

The helpless feeling comes from this: once Fisher is upset, it's very
unlikely that he'll go into another room, away from others, without
being physically put there (which feels like punishment to him -- he
hates it). He also will hit me if I try to touch him when his mood is
wrong, or yell if I try to talk to him or even look his way -- but a
minute later, still crying the same way, he clings to me. It's hard
to know what to do sometimes. To those watching, I may seem like I'm
being too "hands-off" during a tantrum, because in my experience the
worst of it has to blow over before I can be helpful at all.

I'm not saying this to complain -- his feelings are strong and he's
doing the best he can. I'm saying that this is why it's so important
that I get as skillful as I can at coaching and observing and finding
solutions before he gets really upset. And when I do feel helpless, I
know that he will grow out of it, and that helps me remember that me
punishing him or getting upset will NOT be the magic button that makes
him stop. I still work to help him as much as I know how.

Thank you to all who responded -- I love the idea of having a room for
him with snacks and comfortable things. I will check in with him
often. I think we will bring two cars (we live 5 minutes away) so
that if he really needs to go home, one person can bring him and the
others can stay.

And I love the idea of sometimes gently redirecting him in a voice
loud enough so that others can hear. Sneaky. <G> I often try to be
private when talking to him, but I think it will be helpful for family
to see how we're dealing with things.

Peace,
Amy

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/20/04 10:49:39 AM, ecsamhill@e... writes:

> Everything your child does is not caused by you (or by unschooling).>>
>
> This is true, but I will admit to having seen some people just not
watch
> their kids or not coach them very well at all and say it's because
they're
> unschooling, and that's unfortunate for all concerned. "They'll
grow out of it" is
> another probably truth, but leaving them to grow out of it without
direct and
> regular assistance seems cruel to me.
>
> Social situations do have some requirements that anyone who attends
should be
> aware of, and I don't see an advantage of a parent saying "That's
just the
> way he is" while she's in the other room visiting with adults. I'm
not saying
> that's happening here or being recommended, but there IS the other
side of the
> situation, which is that if the child can't be happy and productive
in and of
> a social gathering, either the mom should hold him the whole time or
have him
> sit next to her the whole time or not have him there until he can
handle it
> better.

>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/20/2004 2:30:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

<< There are
family members that just aren't that much fun to be around let alone have
to make nice with when you're seven. (Or forty one<g>) >>

AMEN!
Sometimes I get antsy and am ready to go home from a party too early, and
I'm
51. So that's when I go and look at the books on their bookshelves, or
carry
dishes or trash to the kitchen, or something where I am being busy and
solitary.<<<<

Hell, I just go get in the CAR! <BWG>

~Kelly, 44 <g>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:

> Sometimes I get antsy and am ready to go home from a party too
early, and I'm
> 51. So that's when I go and look at the books on their
bookshelves, or carry
> dishes or trash to the kitchen, or something where I am being busy
and
> solitary.

That's why dh handles the diaper changes! It gives him a chance to
get away from the party or outing for a few minutes. I get to keep
being social and--well, the other benefit is obvious!

I agree with the ideas about talking about things ahead of time. One
thing especially is talking about what the house is like, where a
special place to curl up might be, etc. Maybe since it's close by you
could take a couple things over ahead of time to make it special or
plant a couple suprises if that would help.

I knew our issues at MIL's house would be food for ds. We had a
gentle talk ahead of time about how long we'd be there and how he'd
really need to eat something to keep from feeling grumpy. He didn't
eat more than a few bites of bread and some fruit (and almost skipped
that when dh refered to it as fruit salad, heaven help us), but a
while after that I suggested milk with dessert and that was enough.
He felt bad when everyone started telling how he needs to eat more,
but he just curled up with me and then was okay. His first box of
Lincoln Logs and older cousins to help build really helped too.

Dd ended up running around the house hysterically chasing BIL's dog
for about 15 minutes before we left. Everyone was really nice about
it...especially the dog who only nipped her gently once. I kept her
from hurting the dog and otherwise tried to stay out of her way. I
was really, really relieved that no one gave me a hard time and told
me what I should be doing to her. They just laughed about how much
she's like her aunt...

--aj

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "mamaaj2000"
<mamaaj2000@y...> wrote:

> I agree with the ideas about talking about things ahead of time. One
> thing especially is talking about what the house is like, where a
> special place to curl up might be, etc. Maybe since it's close by you
> could take a couple things over ahead of time to make it special or
> plant a couple suprises if that would help.

Great ideas. I know I have use a light touch when I talk about it
beforehand -- sometimes he has too long to dwell on something and gets
himself worked up that way. <g>

He has been doing a great job identifying which situations are tough
for him, and some of the reasons why. It's hard to express how proud
I am of him for that -- it's tough work.

Peace,
Amy

pam sorooshian

On Dec 20, 2004, at 2:53 PM, arcarpenter2003 wrote:

> To those watching, I may seem like I'm
> being too "hands-off" during a tantrum, because in my experience the
> worst of it has to blow over before I can be helpful at all.

I hope it encourages you to know that my now-17 yo was EXACTLY like
this - and she's now an accomplished young woman who can go anywhere
and people constantly tell me how poised and delightful she is. Only
her immediate family really knows how sensitive she STILL is and how
explosive she can be and how much harder life seems to be for her than
for most other people. That temperament doesn't just "go away" - but
she uses it in her theatrical life and that helps a lot. And she is
smart and has learned to see the repercussions of her own behavior, so
she is learning to take care of herself and her relationships.

I wanted to suggest the possibility that a LOT of dramatic play would
be really useful - maybe make a special effort just before you have to
go to your family's to have lots of unstructured pretend play time
available for him. In other words, think of him as needing to be filled
up before you go, because he's going to be drained while you're out.
Roxana's ability to escape into her own pretend play was such a
critical element of her life - if she didn't get enough of it she
became far far more difficult to live with for others. She was happier
if she was in costume, too, most of the time - even when going to
relatives' homes for holidays,etc.

I remember just nodding and agreeing - "Yeah, she's an odd kid, isn't
she?" I mean - so what?

I also had to leave her alone a bit when she had a tantrum -
approaching her would make things worse. And the worst part was
convincing other people to just leave her alone - because, like you
said, they'd think I was awful not to go comfort her and they'd just be
sure THEY could do it. HA.

A suggestion - talk openly with him before you go - about how draining
it can be to be around all those people for so long and then the two of
you come up with signals -- one signal he can give you when he thinks
he really needs to get away for a little while and another signal you
can give you him to ask him if he's "okay."

And - - make a HUGE effort to connect deeply with him very very often
while you're there - look deeply into his eyes every chance you get,
touch him - even if just to brush his hand, and mouth "I love you," at
him. You can't do this too much - even every 15 minutes during times
you feel are more stressful. Mostly just be sure to catch his eyes and
look deeply into them!!! That's home and comfort - more than anything
else you can do, probably.

Personal cd players are fantastic - they can let a kid escape into
their own world - either with books on cd or music.
If he's a movie watcher - even a personal dvd player might be WELL
worth the expense.

-pam

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:

> I wanted to suggest the possibility that a LOT of dramatic play would
> be really useful - maybe make a special effort just before you have to
> go to your family's to have lots of unstructured pretend play time
> available for him. In other words, think of him as needing to be filled
> up before you go, because he's going to be drained while you're out.
> Roxana's ability to escape into her own pretend play was such a
> critical element of her life - if she didn't get enough of it she
> became far far more difficult to live with for others.

Brilliant, Pam, absolutely brilliant. This was not a connection I had
made myself, but now that you say it, it makes total sense. That is
*so* the kind of kid he is. I've written it on the calendar so I will
schedule my own day around it (he usually needs me for a playslave,
YKWIM?) -- an hour or more of Pretend before we leave the house.

Thank you,
Amy

julie w

> In a message dated 12/20/2004 2:30:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> << There are
> family members that just aren't that much fun to be around let alone have
> to make nice with when you're seven. (Or forty one<g>) >>

How true.
I just spent parts of the Thanksgiving weekend in the car, or the
backyard, or the back bedroom in a constant battle to balance the desire
to just avoid my sister (an the inevitable illness that comes the next
week because I tap out all my emotional and physical energy when she's
here) with wanting to be with everyone else. It helps to just know why
you can go to calm down every once in awhile. I've quit worrying that
she thinks Josh is being rude because he avoids her and refuses to come
vist them....
Julie W in AR

>
>



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AnneO

Hi all!

For those of you who aren't aware of the *Shine* list, it's for
Unschooling Highly Sensitive/Out of Sync/otherwise non-typical
children. For the past few months, we've been discussing the
holidays and our children...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shinewithunschooling/

I didn't have time to read all of the posts, but I did want to talk
about not only helping the child to get away to a place alone, but
bringing with you (at ALL times, not just holiday gatherings)
something that can be a place where he can escape in his mind. I
refer to items like these as *safe zone* items...Jake never leaves
the house without his gameboy, sketch pad, books, or magazines.
These things are what he LOVES, the things that his heart holds a
deep connection with. And these are the things that he *needs*,
especially when he's feeling overwhelmed and anxious.

Be Well ~
Anne

AnneO

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:

make a HUGE effort to connect deeply with him very very often
> while you're there - look deeply into his eyes every chance you
get,
> touch him - even if just to brush his hand, and mouth "I love you,"
at
> him. You can't do this too much - even every 15 minutes during
times
> you feel are more stressful. Mostly just be sure to catch his eyes
and
> look deeply into them!!! That's home and comfort - more than
anything
> else you can do, probably.***

Yes, this is EXTREMELY crucial.

I've often talked about how Jake seems to *fly away* from his body
during overwhelming occassions. I have done this *connection* with
him since he was a small child. This connection brings him back to
Who He Is, grounds him, and keeps him from behaving in a way that
will make him feel bad about himself afterwards ~ because that's the
very thing I'm trying to avoid. It's not so much for the social
gathering...it's for my child's Spirit. I want him to feel good
about himself, and when he does something that he's not happy with,
he re-lives that moment and lives with deep guilt long afterwards
(really...sometimes it's YEARS).

My child deserves to Shine, so I put my life's energy into making
sure that he does. Carefully selecting what social situations we go
into along with a huge amount of preparation ~ emotional, mental and
physical ~ is absolutely necessary.

Be Well ~
Anne

soggyboysmom

My DS is 6 1/2 and a SK with high energy as a bonus. Two big things
I've been learning are (a) learn his cues - meltdowns don't really
come out of nowhere even if it seems like it. There's something
that's been building somewhere if you look for it (b) learn *my*
issues - for example, I have more trouble focusing on him and tuning
out others and being calm if *I'm* hungry and tired.

When we *know* it's going to a long drawn out time before we eat
(Christmas Eve at SIL's is notorious for starting the gathering
around 3 and not getting to dinner until after 7!), we make sure to
pack snacks for DS - yes, there'll probably be tons of food BUT it's
often mostly cookies and chips and sodas and such. We make sure to
pack some protein - sometimes we'll even make a big whatever (ham
and cream cheese rollups for instance) and bring that as an
appetizer for everyone - that way we *know* there will be *protein*
for DS - a major component, we've found, in helping him maintain
equilibrium.

Finding those particular things that are calming is important too.
For my DS, for instance, rubbing his back helps to keep him tuned
in. And it helps me tune in to him as well and anticipate how things
are going. If he's been going and going, I'll try to make a space
near me and call him over for a short rest - and I'll blow across
his hair - he likes that and it is calming to him. Then he can go
back to running but in control of himself again. If there's not a
lot of space for him to move (he HAS TO exert his muscles some),
we'll play "basketball" - I hold out my hand at his head level and
he bounces up and down just tapped my hand with his head so it looks
as if I'm "dribbling" him. A little of that, a hug, and he's off
again, but back to himself. One time I asked him what was going on
with him (it was one of those days) and he said his energy gauge was
too full. So we worked out ways to get his energy gauge back into a
better range.

If you know in advance that folks will be trying to interact, stick
close. I've found that physical contact with me kind of bolsters him
when he's having a hard time sociably. Just as I know that being
close to DH helps me because I'm not a naturally social person.

It really will work out over time. Stay your course with confidence -
do what you and your family need.

diana jenner

Have you ever tried Rescue Remedy?? For us, it's great for when that
meltdown begins and you just don't know what to do (as either the melter
or the watcher) - I don't know how, but it brings back focus in the
situation. When it's not appropriate to squirt the stuff (sometimes in
the belly button is just the distraction Hayden needs) I put some on my
fingertips to rub onto any pulse point, it quietly calms us both. When
we're going anywhere we *know* is stressful, I'll put a few drops in
everyones water bottles to 'keep the edge off' -- even if you have it on
hand for *YOU* for the moments when you're fine with your son's
situation, but not okay with the family's (perceived or real) reaction
to you, a couple squirts could save their lives <bg>
:) diana

arcarpenter2003 wrote:

>The helpless feeling comes from this: once Fisher is upset, it's very
>unlikely that he'll go into another room, away from others, without
>being physically put there (which feels like punishment to him -- he
>hates it). He also will hit me if I try to touch him when his mood is
>wrong, or yell if I try to talk to him or even look his way -- but a
>minute later, still crying the same way, he clings to me. It's hard
>to know what to do sometimes. To those watching, I may seem like I'm
>being too "hands-off" during a tantrum, because in my experience the
>worst of it has to blow over before I can be helpful at all.
>
>

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "AnneO" <ohman@c...> wrote:
ild. This connection brings him back to
> Who He Is, grounds him, and keeps him from behaving in a way that
> will make him feel bad about himself afterwards ~ because that's the
> very thing I'm trying to avoid. It's not so much for the social
> gathering...it's for my child's Spirit. I want him to feel good
> about himself, and when he does something that he's not happy with,
> he re-lives that moment and lives with deep guilt long afterwards
> (really...sometimes it's YEARS).

Yes! In my own thinking, I was starting to deal with this exact issue
-- Fisher feels like a freak when he loses it (like I felt when I was
a girl), even though I don't feel that way about him. Thank you for
articulating this so well.

And I am very careful about what social gatherings I bring him into --
I'm getting extremely familiar with the inside of my own house this
way. <g>

Peace,
Amy

Dana Matt

>
> Personal cd players are fantastic - they can let a
> kid escape into
> their own world - either with books on cd or music.
> If he's a movie watcher - even a personal dvd player
> might be WELL
> worth the expense.
>
> -pam

We went to my brother's house a couple of weeks ago
for his "F*** Cancer" Party--he now has a clean bill
of health :) Emma, 6.5, was thought of ahead of time
by my brother and his wife, as she was the only little
person there, and they set up a room just for her,
with pillows and low tables, and they had special
yummies in the frige that were only for her, and we
broght a laptop so she could either watch dvd's or
play games...and that kept her busy and happy (with
mom and dad and sister each checking in on her every
10 minutes or so) until the party wound down...oh, and
we also took a walk, all of us and an adult friend, to
the co-op about 11:30, and that was a fun adventure
just about the time the room was getting boring.
Dana

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Dana Matt

> I agree with the ideas about talking about things
> ahead of time. One
> thing especially is talking about what the house is
> like, where a
> special place to curl up might be, etc.

I am in no way suggesting NOT talking about it ahead
of time, but maybe talk with the hostess ahead of time
to make sure you know what you're talking about;). I
just got in trouble this weekend, when planning a
dinner out with my brother--we went to a brewpub that
we had been to last year, and they had kids menus
then, so that was the selling point for my 6 yo--Oh,
and they'll have a kids menu for you, and colors,
etc...WELL...when we got there, they said they had
phased out the kids menu due to lack of interest, and
although she searched the waitress couldn't find one
in the back, and Emma and I ended up coming home early
as that just set the mood for the whole evening...
Dana

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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2004 11:19:37 AM Mountain Standard Time,
hoffmanwilson@... writes:
I am in no way suggesting NOT talking about it ahead
of time, but maybe talk with the hostess ahead of time
to make sure you know what you're talking about;).

--------------

Have a plan B.

Crayons and paper are cheap and worth carrying with you.
Maybe cards too, or little toys that wouldn't be distracting in restaurants.

I don't think it's the hostess's responsibility to entertain other people's
kids when it's not specifically a kids' activity.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dana Matt

> I am in no way suggesting NOT talking about it ahead
> of time, but maybe talk with the hostess ahead of
> time
> to make sure you know what you're talking about;).
>
> --------------
>
> Have a plan B.
>
> Crayons and paper are cheap and worth carrying with
> you.
> Maybe cards too, or little toys that wouldn't be
> distracting in restaurants.
>
> I don't think it's the hostess's responsibility to
> entertain other people's
> kids when it's not specifically a kids' activity.

I wasn't suggesting that the hostess needed to take
care of your kids. I was suggesting that you check
with SIL ahead of time, or whomever, to make sure it's
ok that you set Johnny up in the rec room, or the back
bedroom, because if you tell your child that the back
room will be "his" and your SIL has three babies
sleeping in there, it won't help the situation...
Dana

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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2004 11:51:57 AM Mountain Standard Time,
hoffmanwilson@... writes:
because if you tell your child that the back
room will be "his" and your SIL has three babies
sleeping in there, it won't help the situation...
------------------------

True. But even if she agrees and you pass that on, something could happen to
make it unavailable. Even is someone chose a kid-friendly restaurant, they
might be out of children's menus and crayons.

Helping a child who doesn't like change to accept the possibility of change
is a good thing.
Making them promises you can't (nor anyone else could) keep is assured to
make the situation worse.

Kirby hated change as a kid. (Still, at 18, prefers to avoid it if that's
convenient.) He wanted to know what was happening in advance and he wanted it
to be like the last time. I learned to qualify statements with "might" and
"probably" and "I'll try." I was telling the truth AND being helpful when I
suggested what was possible or likely. Once I moved into "will" and "yours" and
"for sure," I was part of the problem and not the solution.

The "will" and "for sure" a mom is most likely to be able to ensure is her
own availability and attention, and there even could come a day when that fails.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jessie

On Dec 20, 2004, at 8:20 PM, [email protected]
wrote:

> He also will hit me if I try to touch him when his mood is
> wrong, or yell if I try to talk to him or even look his way -- but a
> minute later, still crying the same way, he clings to me. It's hard
> to know what to do sometimes. To those watching, I may seem like I'm
> being too "hands-off" during a tantrum, because in my experience the
> worst of it has to blow over before I can be helpful at all.

My dd has been like this since age 2 (she's 5 now). If she is in the
midst of a meltdown (and the slightest thing in my eyes can set her off
- like me opening the door when she (in her mind) thought she was going
to do it) I pretty much need to stay close but NOT touch her. If I do
she will usually hit me in the face. I have no idea why except that she
is so overwhelmed she can't control it. She screams, growls, kicks,
clenches her teeth etc, I am a very mild-mannered person but also
highly sensitive so her outbursts really freaked me out in the
beginning. I tried to "fix" her for a year. It was awful. I felt like a
failure and she became neurotic. Luckily I saw Anne O speak (thank you
Anne!) and now try and just help her cope before she is overwhelmed.

I have a bizarre family with lots of cousins who yell at their kids and
it makes her (and me) very uncomfortable. I am always checking in with
her and it definitely helps - as does lap time. Some relatives have
learned to respect that she's sensitive, others probably never will.
Those are the relatives I would never leave her alone with and try to
avoid while she's young.

Good luck,
Jessie

Jessie

Wow! Your description of your daughter sounds so much like mine! She
LIVES for costumes too, will wear several a day, and takes on other
personalities in her imaginary play - male and female roles. She's very
outgoing, very perfectionist, and very intense. I want to keep that
intensity alive but help her learn to channel it into positive outlets
- like acting (which she is very good at - I really believed she was
crying yesterday and I said, "What's the matter?!" and she immediately
grinned and said, "Mom, I'm acting!")!

:)
Jessie


On Dec 21, 2004, at 7:04 PM, [email protected]
wrote:

> She was happier
> if she was in costume, too, most of the time - even when going to
> relatives' homes for holidays,etc.