Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion]Rob Reich
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/16/2004 6:40:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
-=-Children can grow up to become ethically servile to their parents,
which is incompatible with them being free persons,'' Reich saidin a
Beacon Journal interview-=-
But he's not talking about us. <<<<
This is where you're wrong. He *IS* talking about us! Because they lump all
of us together as "homeschoolers"---and people like Helen Hegener, who is ALSO
trying to lump us all together---- and make us all one big happy group.
And again, I'll scream! <g>: I insist that we're NOT homeschoolers to anyone
that asks. I insist that we're UNschoolers because it matters to me that we
NOT be lumped together with those freaks.
They have a huge lobby, through H$LDA, that is VERY visible and loud. They
spend lots of money and manpower on articles like this one----even though
it's not all peachy-keen and good----because it may inspire MORE freaks to join
their cause. They don't care how we all look to the outside world if they can
recruit another freaky family.
It only hurts *US*. Unschoolers aren't visible enough or loud enough (yet!
<G> give me time! <g>) to counter these stupid beliefs. "Normal" people read
that and say, "See, Thelma! ALL them homeschoolers are just a bunch of crazy
freaks who want to take over the country and rule the world through the Bible.
Bunch of freaks!". Hell, *I* say the same things!
As long as all homeschoolers are lumped together, then he IS talking about
us.
~Kelly, do NOT call me a homeschooling mom!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
-=-Children can grow up to become ethically servile to their parents,
which is incompatible with them being free persons,'' Reich saidin a
Beacon Journal interview-=-
But he's not talking about us. <<<<
This is where you're wrong. He *IS* talking about us! Because they lump all
of us together as "homeschoolers"---and people like Helen Hegener, who is ALSO
trying to lump us all together---- and make us all one big happy group.
And again, I'll scream! <g>: I insist that we're NOT homeschoolers to anyone
that asks. I insist that we're UNschoolers because it matters to me that we
NOT be lumped together with those freaks.
They have a huge lobby, through H$LDA, that is VERY visible and loud. They
spend lots of money and manpower on articles like this one----even though
it's not all peachy-keen and good----because it may inspire MORE freaks to join
their cause. They don't care how we all look to the outside world if they can
recruit another freaky family.
It only hurts *US*. Unschoolers aren't visible enough or loud enough (yet!
<G> give me time! <g>) to counter these stupid beliefs. "Normal" people read
that and say, "See, Thelma! ALL them homeschoolers are just a bunch of crazy
freaks who want to take over the country and rule the world through the Bible.
Bunch of freaks!". Hell, *I* say the same things!
As long as all homeschoolers are lumped together, then he IS talking about
us.
~Kelly, do NOT call me a homeschooling mom!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Holly Furgason
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
ones who were scared- scared of the truant officers, scared of child
welfare, scared of our relatives. But unschooling has gone from the
theoretical to the practical. The country is full of kids who were
unschooled who are doing just fine, thank you. Yet still we tend to
be so quiet.
represent what we do in academic terms, we are denying the power and
beauty of unschooling. We're misrepresenting what we do when we say
that gardening is botany or cooking is math. It's not the same at
all. It's like someone who lives in Mexico for 4 years and comes
back speaking Spanish fluently yet cannot conjugate a verb to save
their life compared to someone who studied Spanish in school for 4
years and can the conjugate the heck out any verb yet can't hold a
two minute conversation at a four year old level.
We are the fluent ones. Live and learning all meld together in our
lives to create wise, knowledgable and capable children and adults.
We need to start letting people know.
Holly
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
Unschooling t-shirts and more!
http://www.cafperess.com/2cool4school
> Unschoolers aren't visible enough or loud enough (yet!Bravo, Kelly, for saying this. I think for a long time we were the
> <G> give me time! <g>) to counter these stupid beliefs.
ones who were scared- scared of the truant officers, scared of child
welfare, scared of our relatives. But unschooling has gone from the
theoretical to the practical. The country is full of kids who were
unschooled who are doing just fine, thank you. Yet still we tend to
be so quiet.
> It only hurts *US*.I think we're hurting ourselves in many ways too. Every time we
represent what we do in academic terms, we are denying the power and
beauty of unschooling. We're misrepresenting what we do when we say
that gardening is botany or cooking is math. It's not the same at
all. It's like someone who lives in Mexico for 4 years and comes
back speaking Spanish fluently yet cannot conjugate a verb to save
their life compared to someone who studied Spanish in school for 4
years and can the conjugate the heck out any verb yet can't hold a
two minute conversation at a four year old level.
We are the fluent ones. Live and learning all meld together in our
lives to create wise, knowledgable and capable children and adults.
We need to start letting people know.
Holly
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
Unschooling t-shirts and more!
http://www.cafperess.com/2cool4school
Elizabeth Roberts
Holly,
That was a very good analogy, and I really appreciate
the way you wrote that! Thanks!
Elizabeth
Elizabeth
Http://rainbowacademy.blogspot.com
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
That was a very good analogy, and I really appreciate
the way you wrote that! Thanks!
Elizabeth
>=====
> I think we're hurting ourselves in many ways too.
> Every time we
> represent what we do in academic terms, we are
> denying the power and
> beauty of unschooling. We're misrepresenting what
> we do when we say
> that gardening is botany or cooking is math. It's
> not the same at
> all. It's like someone who lives in Mexico for 4
> years and comes
> back speaking Spanish fluently yet cannot conjugate
> a verb to save
> their life compared to someone who studied Spanish
> in school for 4
> years and can the conjugate the heck out any verb
> yet can't hold a
> two minute conversation at a four year old level.
>
> We are the fluent ones. Live and learning all meld
> together in our
> lives to create wise, knowledgable and capable
> children and adults.
> We need to start letting people know.
>
> Holly
> 2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
> Unschooling t-shirts and more!
> http://www.cafperess.com/2cool4school
>
>
>
>
Elizabeth
Http://rainbowacademy.blogspot.com
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
pam sorooshian
On Nov 16, 2004, at 4:37 PM, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
some HSLDA people were interviewed, just like I was and others were. I
am quite certain that they are not at all happy with the way the
articles came out.
HSLDA attorney, Scott Sommerville, arranged for me to be on that panel
in San Diego, knowing that I'd criticize HSLDA and knowing that I'd
make it clear that I had nothing in common with their way of thinking
other than that my kids don't go to school and that I want freedom for
parents to raise their kids as they see fit - limited only by specific
situations of abuse. He knew I'd be better able to defend against Rob
Reich's accusations than he would - although I must admit that he
talked about his family's long-time involvement in the civil rights
movement, which was a darn good counter to Rob, too.
I agree with Sandra that we shouldn't cover up what I think of as the
ugly underbelly of homeschooling - the rigid, ignorant, punitive
nonthinking extremists who call themselves Christian Homeschoolers. In
the interest of being credible, we should not pretend they don't exist.
But also in the interest of being credible, we should paint HSLDA only
with the brushes that it deserves - which is more than enough. But
they're not responsible for the journalism in this series of articles -
let's give the journalists the credit they deserve, too. The series is
awful - they missed a HUGE chance to talk about learning and the
diversity of homeschoolers and what schools could learn from how
children develop when they're set free of artificial constraints, and
so on. Instead the journalists chose to focus on the stuff that breeds
suspicion and hostility and fear - homeschoolers are racists, they're
child abusers, they're noncustodial parents who are hiding children
from their ex-spouses, etc.
-pam
> They have a huge lobby, through H$LDA, that is VERY visible and loud.HSLDA didn't spend any money or manpower on this series of articles -
> They
> spend lots of money and manpower on articles like this one----even
> though
> it's not all peachy-keen and good----because it may inspire MORE
> freaks to join
> their cause. They don't care how we all look to the outside world if
> they can
> recruit another freaky family.
some HSLDA people were interviewed, just like I was and others were. I
am quite certain that they are not at all happy with the way the
articles came out.
HSLDA attorney, Scott Sommerville, arranged for me to be on that panel
in San Diego, knowing that I'd criticize HSLDA and knowing that I'd
make it clear that I had nothing in common with their way of thinking
other than that my kids don't go to school and that I want freedom for
parents to raise their kids as they see fit - limited only by specific
situations of abuse. He knew I'd be better able to defend against Rob
Reich's accusations than he would - although I must admit that he
talked about his family's long-time involvement in the civil rights
movement, which was a darn good counter to Rob, too.
I agree with Sandra that we shouldn't cover up what I think of as the
ugly underbelly of homeschooling - the rigid, ignorant, punitive
nonthinking extremists who call themselves Christian Homeschoolers. In
the interest of being credible, we should not pretend they don't exist.
But also in the interest of being credible, we should paint HSLDA only
with the brushes that it deserves - which is more than enough. But
they're not responsible for the journalism in this series of articles -
let's give the journalists the credit they deserve, too. The series is
awful - they missed a HUGE chance to talk about learning and the
diversity of homeschoolers and what schools could learn from how
children develop when they're set free of artificial constraints, and
so on. Instead the journalists chose to focus on the stuff that breeds
suspicion and hostility and fear - homeschoolers are racists, they're
child abusers, they're noncustodial parents who are hiding children
from their ex-spouses, etc.
-pam
pam sorooshian
On Nov 17, 2004, at 6:53 AM, Holly Furgason wrote:
It is schools who screwed up the meanings of these things. Botany IS
fooling with plants, learning about them, working with them. Math is
fooling with numbers or shapes or measurements, etc. These are what
botanists or mathematicians do. What we're not doing is school subjects
- studying "about" it - but we ARE doing the real thing. The person who
lived in Mexico really DID do Spanish, as opposed to someone who took a
Spanish class in school.
-pam
> We're misrepresenting what we do when we sayThis is SO true, Holly. What a GREAT analogy.
> that gardening is botany or cooking is math. It's not the same at
> all. It's like someone who lives in Mexico for 4 years and comes
> back speaking Spanish fluently yet cannot conjugate a verb to save
> their life compared to someone who studied Spanish in school for 4
> years and can the conjugate the heck out any verb yet can't hold a
> two minute conversation at a four year old level.
>
> We are the fluent ones. Live and learning all meld together in our
> lives to create wise, knowledgable and capable children and adults.
> We need to start letting people know.
It is schools who screwed up the meanings of these things. Botany IS
fooling with plants, learning about them, working with them. Math is
fooling with numbers or shapes or measurements, etc. These are what
botanists or mathematicians do. What we're not doing is school subjects
- studying "about" it - but we ARE doing the real thing. The person who
lived in Mexico really DID do Spanish, as opposed to someone who took a
Spanish class in school.
-pam