Susan Ide Patton

What are people's thoughts about Alfie Kohn and his books "Punished by
Rewards" and "Unconditional Parenting"? I know that he doesn't fully support
unschooling, but he seems to have a lot of wisdom about rewards, punishing,
testing etc.

Susan




Message: 24
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 03:18:50 -0000
From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
Subject: Dr. Dobson

"It didn't speak to me, but that may have been due to it's emphasis
on Christianity--which might really be appealing to another reader."

You know, it's been a few years since I've read it and I remembered it
being theistic, but not Christian. Oh well, it might be perfect for
the Christian families looking for change. I guess I need to look at
it again!:)

"The book that I would recommend (though I had problems with this one,
too--but that's just cuz I'm difficult!) is Win and Bill Sweet's _Living
Joyfully With Children_, that's a really good introduction to
principle-based parenting."

THAT'S the one!! My sister raves about this book, says it was the most
helpful book in making that shift she needed. Recommends it to everyone.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Danielle Conger

Susan Ide Patton wrote:

> What are people's thoughts about Alfie Kohn and his books "Punished by
> Rewards" and "Unconditional Parenting"? I know that he doesn't fully
> support
> unschooling, but he seems to have a lot of wisdom about rewards,
> punishing,
> testing etc.

Well, he does, he just doesn't *know* it yet. *eg* Kinda like Daniel
Pink, author of _Free Agent Nation_--these guys are just still being
washed over by the mainstream and can't see all the way out yet. ;)

I love _Unconditional Parenting_ and would whole-heartedly recommend it
for anyone unschooling or looking to move closer to gentle, respectful
parenting.

I'd also whole-heartedly recommend Jan Hunt's _The Natural Child:
Parenting from the Heart_ for those with young children. I think it's
going to be my standard new baby book gift from now on! Much of it is
essays that can be found on the natural child website, but it's still
great to have them all together in one place.


--
~~Danielle, enjoying the gloriously warm weather outside as the kids draw with chalk, climb on the wood pile and bore holes through the chalk with sticks.
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

Alexandra & Brian Polikowsky

I think they are great. And you are right he is not for unschooling or homeschooling.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Ide Patton
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:45 AM
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] books


What are people's thoughts about Alfie Kohn and his books "Punished by
Rewards" and "Unconditional Parenting"? I know that he doesn't fully support
unschooling, but he seems to have a lot of wisdom about rewards, punishing,
testing etc.

Susan




Message: 24
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 03:18:50 -0000
From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
Subject: Dr. Dobson

"It didn't speak to me, but that may have been due to it's emphasis
on Christianity--which might really be appealing to another reader."

You know, it's been a few years since I've read it and I remembered it
being theistic, but not Christian. Oh well, it might be perfect for
the Christian families looking for change. I guess I need to look at
it again!:)

"The book that I would recommend (though I had problems with this one,
too--but that's just cuz I'm difficult!) is Win and Bill Sweet's _Living
Joyfully With Children_, that's a really good introduction to
principle-based parenting."

THAT'S the one!! My sister raves about this book, says it was the most
helpful book in making that shift she needed. Recommends it to everyone.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharissa13

Does anyone have any suggestions for good books on
unschooling? I have one view of how to unschool my son
and my husband has another. So, we're hoping that some
books can help us better understand how to go about it
all and work together.

TIA!


____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Jacquie Krauskopf

The Unschooling Handbook by Mary Griffith is my favorite found in most libraries and bookstores.
Jacquie

Sharissa13 <sharissa13@...> wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions for good books on
unschooling? I have one view of how to unschool my son
and my husband has another. So, we're hoping that some
books can help us better understand how to go about it
all and work together.

TIA!

__________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs





---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agnieszka

Hi!
I'm new to unschooling and some of the books I have found helpful
include Teach Your Own by John Holt and Sandra Dodd's Website
http://www.sandradodd.com/ There is SO much information on the
internet, it's sometimes hard to know what's what. But from what I've
been told Rue Kream, the website http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com (Jan
Hunt's, I believe) are good resources. Oh, and the Natural Child
Project is also very good: http://www.naturalchild.org


Agnieszka


--- In [email protected], Sharissa13 <sharissa13@...>
wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for good books on
> unschooling? I have one view of how to unschool my son
> and my husband has another. So, we're hoping that some
> books can help us better understand how to go about it
> all and work together.
>
> TIA!
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 6, 2008, at 9:58 PM, Agnieszka wrote:

> the website http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com (Jan
> Hunt's, I believe)

Joyce Fetteroll's actually :-)

Which is why rejoicing is misspelled. Couldn't resist the pun!

(Though if you type "rejoycing" into Google you'll find plenty of
people don't know how to spell it! ;-)

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Sharissa13 <sharissa13@...>

Does anyone have any suggestions for good books on
unschooling? I have one view of how to unschool my son
and my husband has another. So, we're hoping that some
books can help us better understand how to go about it
all and work together.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Below is the list I usually send to folks questioning unschooling in SC
(with a few additions). Long book list as well as elists, websites, and
conferences.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org




There are several good books on the inanity and insanity of schools and
on
the marvels of unschooling.

The unschooling "patron saint" is John Holt. He was a school reformer
in the
70's who came to realize that schools are NOT reformable. His most
popular
books are _How Children Fail_, _How Children Learn_, _Teach Your Own_,
and _Learning
All the Time_.

John Taylor Gatto was a NY city and NY state teacher of the year. He
finally
quit and started on the speaking circuit. He seems completely behind
unschooling (although a little anti-TV and -gaming). His two big books
are _Dumbing Us Down_ and _The Underground
History of American Education_.

Frank Smith has a great little book called _The Book of Learning and
Forgetting_ that shows how little one learns in and remembers from
school. He
pushes REAL learning---for a purpose. GREAT for dads!!

Alfie Kohn's _Punished by Rewards_ shows the total inanity of EXtrinsic
motivation (gold stars, grades, etc.) and the attributes of INtrinsic
motivation.

Grace Llewellyn's _The Teenage Liberation Handbook (How to Quit School
and
Get a REAL Education)_ is the "bible" for unschoolers. It's a great
read for
teens, but parents should read it too. Be SURE not to skip the "cute
little
story" at the beginning. Grace also hosts the "Not Back To School Camp"
in
the early fall for teen unschoolers---a place to meet other unschoolers
and share
passions and interests.

Mary Griffith has two books, _The Homeschooling Handbook_ and _The
Unschooling
Handbook_. The Homeschooling Handbook has many great ideas for
documenting
what's being learned; and, since that is a requirement in SC, it's very
helpful. But _The Unschooling Handbook_ is THE handbook for new
unschoolers. In it she
gives real life examples and explanations. VERY understandable.
Convinced my
husband that what I was suggesting made sense! <g>

Mark Prenky (not an unschooler) has several books---anything by him
would be worthwhile. But his _Don't Bother Me , Mom! I'm Learning!_ is
a great introduction to understanding gaming and the 21st century.

Daniel Pink---also not an unschooler---has written several books on how
traditional schooling/education is failing the modern human. _A Whole
New Mind_ is a good read.

David Albert has two: _And the Skylark Sings with Me_ and
_Homeschooling and the
Voyage of Self-Discovery_. Both are witty---and easy reads.

Valerie Fitzenreiter has a book that I highly recommend: _The
Unprocessed Child: Living Without School_. It's about unschooling her
daughter, Laurie.

Sandra Dodd's _Moving a Puddle_---a collection of essays. Most can be
found online and at her site, but it's nice to have them bound---all in
one place.

My absolute favorite of all time is Rue Kream's _Parenting a Free
Child; An Unschooled Life_. It WILL change your life! Worth its weight
in gold!

Magazines:

"Connections" e-zine ---online magazine
"Life Learning Magazine"
"Live Free Learn Free"
"Growing Without Schooling", originally put out by John Holt. No longer
in
production, but back issues available from "old" unschoolers and from
FUNbooks.

Websites:

_www.unschooling.info_ (http://www.unschooling.info/) There are other
lists
that "say" they unschool; these are the radicals who KNOW what they are
talking about. There are essays and FAQs which you should definitely
read first.
Afterwards go to the message boards and read, read, READ! If you have
questions after reading for a few weeks, then post---but most things
have been
explained before, so if you read, you'll run across the answers to most
of your
questions.
*note: this has become a rather quiet board---not that *you* can't make
it lively again! <g>


_UnschoolingDiscussion@..._
(mailto:UnschoolingDiscussion@...) is a great e-list if
you prefer
your messages in mail form. Unless you're hard
core, or just prefer your lists this way, I'd recommend the message
boards.

There is also [email protected]_
(mailto:[email protected]) . The "basics" for those who
wish to make this huge lifestyle change. I own this list with Ren
Allen.

[email protected] for experienced unschoolers

[email protected] for parents of children eight and
under

[email protected] for parents of children who SHINE!

[email protected] for support wrt The Secret (LoA)

[email protected] (Radical Unschoolers List) for…um…radicals. <g>

_www.SchoolsOutSupport.com_ (http://www.schoolsoutsupport.com/) is the
South Carolina unschooling accountability association and support group.

There's a very good chance that there is an unschooling group in your
state/city. Google it. If not, start your own!

Sandra Dodd is a radical unschooler of three children, 19, 17, & 15 (I
think). She has her own website that is chocked FULL of essays and
stories
about unschooling. It's a great place to start.
_www.SandraDodd.com/unschooling_
(http://www.sandradodd.com/unschooling)

Joyce Fetteroll has an engineer's mind and a very *logical* way of
explaining unschooling even to the most diehard critic!
www.joyfullyrejoycing.com

Ned Vare & Luz Shosie have an
already-graduated-from-college-always-unschooled son. Their website is
full
of short essays on unschooling. They have a
newsletter as well.
_http://borntoexplore.org/unschool/_
(http://borntoexplore.org/unschool/)

Billy and Nancy Greer own FUN-books---a mail-order catalogue for
unschoolish
books and games. _www.FUN-Books.com_ (http://www.fun-books.com/)

And the conference:

Live & Learn Unschooling Conference
September 5-9. 2007 in Black Mountain, NC at the YMCA Blue Ridge
Assembly.

Go To _www.LiveandLearnConference.org_
(http://www.liveandlearnconference.org/)

This conference is a must attend! Meet other families on the same
journey,
listen to inspiring speakers, and discover the art of unschooling in
beautiful Black Mountain, NC. This is a non-age-discriminatory
conference: anyone
can participate in any Funshop or Presentation. Bring the whole family
for a
joy-filled weekend!

If this is not in your neck of the woods or if you just need *more*
unschooling conferencing, try these:

www.livingjoyfully.ca/conference
www.LIFEisGood Conference.com
www.NorthEastUnschoolingConference.com
PuraVida Conference in Costa Rica in Dec 2008---not set in stone yet
and no website

plus there are plenty of opportunities for unschoolers to gather:
NonCons, WaterPark Adventures, all sorts of things. And if you don't
see something that appeals, start one yourself! <g>








________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Since you are all talking about book here:

A friend on mine has an older boy who just turned 13. I have known this boy since he was3.
He is always been a sweet, easy going, complacent, polite kid.
The parents are divorced and the dad is a super control freak.
He even controls the kid's hair cut.
The mother is a little better but still has a long ways to go ( me too but I disgress). She has been reading some unschooling things I send her. She now does not control video games , etc.
She wants to help her son because she now says he is coming into the age where he is changing. Having more mood swings, rebeling a little ( no wonder).
As much as she can help he will alwasy have the super controling dad ( mom would homeschool but dad says no way and they have shared custody.)
I have heard some people here talk about a book on parenting teens.
Any suggestions????????????
She has Unconditional Parenting, by Alphie Konh and Rasing our Children, Raising Ourselves, by Naomi Aldort./
She is still working on reading them. She is trying hard to do the best she can. I have been kind of a guide to her. She has asked for a book on teens ,
Thanks in advance






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>

> I have heard some people here talk about a book on parenting
teens.
> Any suggestions????????????
> She has Unconditional Parenting, by Alphie Konh and Rasing our
Children, Raising Ourselves, by Naomi Aldort./
> She is still working on reading them. She is trying hard to do
the best she can. I have been kind of a guide to her. She has asked
for a book on teens ,
> Thanks in advance
>
Guerilla Learning might be a good choice along with the Teenage
Liberation Handbook (both by the same author). The subtitle on the
former is How to Give Your Kids a Real Education With or Without
School so that might be helpful in ways that she can move toward an
unschooling mindset while still dealing with school. Both by Grace
Llewellyn.

--Deb

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Thanks Deb I will give her those two names But I remeber one that was not about homeschooling , just parenting??? ANy ideas??


Alex






Deb <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>

> I have heard some people here talk about a book on parenting
teens.
> Any suggestions????????????
> She has Unconditional Parenting, by Alphie Konh and Rasing our
Children, Raising Ourselves, by Naomi Aldort./
> She is still working on reading them. She is trying hard to do
the best she can. I have been kind of a guide to her. She has asked
for a book on teens ,
> Thanks in advance
>
Guerilla Learning might be a good choice along with the Teenage
Liberation Handbook (both by the same author). The subtitle on the
former is How to Give Your Kids a Real Education With or Without
School so that might be helpful in ways that she can move toward an
unschooling mindset while still dealing with school. Both by Grace
Llewellyn.

--Deb






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 8, 2008, at 5:13 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

> Thanks Deb I will give her those two names But I remeber one that
> was not about homeschooling , just parenting??? ANy ideas??


Parent/Teen Breakthrough is excellent. All about relationship
building with teens.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

:: anne | arun ::

i think the best introduction/ initial tool kit for alternative
parenting is Pam Leo's Connection Parenting. Its not teen specific
but the principles apply across the board.

ive personally found many books useful on my own parenting journey
but im yet to find one that summarises and distills so much of what
is out there. Its also much more practical than say Alfie Kohn (who
is another favourite of mine), so in that sense its a great "life
line" to throw your friend in the situation you described.

i did a full review here:
http://theparentingpit.com/reviews/pamleo_connectionparenting/

all the best
arun

> Posted by: "BRIAN POLIKOWSKY" polykowholsteins@...
> polykowholsteins
> Fri Feb 8, 2008 2:13 pm (PST)
>
> Thanks Deb I will give her those two names But I remeber one that
> was not about homeschooling , just parenting??? ANy ideas??
>
>
> Alex

_____________________________________________

http://www.theparentingpit.com








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Thanks I will pass that on to her and with your review.
Alex

: anne | arun: : Fri Feb 8 16: 14: 58@..., [email protected].;;;;;, ":: anne | arun ::" <life@...> wrote:
i think the best introduction/ initial tool kit for alternative
parenting is Pam Leo's Connection Parenting. Its not teen specific
but the principles apply across the board.

ive personally found many books useful on my own parenting journey
but im yet to find one that summarises and distills so much of what
is out there. Its also much more practical than say Alfie Kohn (who
is another favourite of mine), so in that sense its a great "life
line" to throw your friend in the situation you described.

i did a full review here:
http://theparentingpit.com/reviews/pamleo_connectionparenting/

all the best
arun

> Posted by: "BRIAN POLIKOWSKY" polykowholsteins@...
> polykowholsteins
> Fri Feb 8, 2008 2:13 pm (PST)
>
> Thanks Deb I will give her those two names But I remeber one that
> was not about homeschooling , just parenting??? ANy ideas??
>
>
> Alex

_____________________________________________

http://www.theparentingpit.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Thanks Joyce. That is what I was looking for!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex










Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:

On Feb 8, 2008, at 5:13 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

> Thanks Deb I will give her those two names But I remeber one that
> was not about homeschooling , just parenting??? ANy ideas??

Parent/Teen Breakthrough is excellent. All about relationship
building with teens.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

These are both good books that I have suggested to people, with a couple
caveats. One has an obnoxious subtitle, and there are points where each is
pretty schooly (not suprising, given most teens do school.)

First, Whatever, Mom: Hip Mama's Guide to Raising a Teenager, by Ariel Gore
is pretty cool. She really likes being a mom and likes her kid. She's very
honest. In her resources section she mentions unschooling and the Teenage
Liberation Handbook.

Wonderful Ways to Love a Teen, by Judy Ford (subtitle -- Even when it seems
impossible) is really quite nice too. It's very positive, tells parents to
lighten up, and has sections called "Bring on the Blaring Music," "Let Them Burn
the Midnight Oil," "Believe in them totally," and "Guide the toward their
passion."

Kathryn

As much as she can help he will alwasy have the super controling dad ( mom
would homeschool but dad says no way and they have shared custody.)
I have heard some people here talk about a book on parenting teens.
Any suggestions?Any sugAn
She has Unconditional Parenting, by Alphie Konh and Rasing our Children,
Raising Ourselves, by Naomi Aldort./
She is still working on reading them. She is trying hard to do the best she
can. I have been kind of a guide to her. She has asked for a book on teens ,

Come to the Northeast Unschooling conference Memorial Day Weekend, May 23-25
2008 in Peabody, Massachusetts _www.northeastunschoolingconference.com_
(http://www.northeastunschoolingconference.com/)




**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Thanks KAthryn,
I will pass these on to her,
Love,
ALEX


KathrynJB@... wrote:
These are both good books that I have suggested to people, with a couple
caveats. One has an obnoxious subtitle, and there are points where each is
pretty schooly (not suprising, given most teens do school.)

First, Whatever, Mom: Hip Mama's Guide to Raising a Teenager, by Ariel Gore
is pretty cool. She really likes being a mom and likes her kid. She's very
honest. In her resources section she mentions unschooling and the Teenage
Liberation Handbook.

Wonderful Ways to Love a Teen, by Judy Ford (subtitle -- Even when it seems
impossible) is really quite nice too. It's very positive, tells parents to
lighten up, and has sections called "Bring on the Blaring Music," "Let Them Burn
the Midnight Oil," "Believe in them totally," and "Guide the toward their
passion."

Kathryn

As much as she can help he will alwasy have the super controling dad ( mom
would homeschool but dad says no way and they have shared custody.)
I have heard some people here talk about a book on parenting teens.
Any suggestions?Any sugAn
She has Unconditional Parenting, by Alphie Konh and Rasing our Children,
Raising Ourselves, by Naomi Aldort./
She is still working on reading them. She is trying hard to do the best she
can. I have been kind of a guide to her. She has asked for a book on teens ,

Come to the Northeast Unschooling conference Memorial Day Weekend, May 23-25
2008 in Peabody, Massachusetts _www.northeastunschoolingconference.com_
(http://www.northeastunschoolingconference.com/)

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]