mamacari78

I understand what was meant by the "schooly" voices that we adults
have in our heads. I am encouraged to read of those that are more
relaxed about T.V. watching, because that has been a source of
tension in our house.
It is also nice to have someone say that my girls are so young (5 &
6) that I don't need to "worry" about what they are doing in a way
of formalized learning. I do see them developing interests
constantly, playing fantasy dress-up for an hour or two at a time,
looking at books that they discover on the bookshelf, etc. I see
them happy, too. Those friends that I have who have children of the
same age in public schools are very tense, with sometimes only one
hour of free time to themselves each day. When they come over for a
visit there is a noticable difference in the way the public school
kiddos relate over the way I am accustomed seeing fellow
homeschoolers kiddos relate. Just being witness to that is enough to
convince me that we are doing the right thing. I guess I just feel
uptight about not doing formal learning with my kids, even though it
feels almost unnatural to force us all to sit down at the kitchen
table and look at phonics flash cards (YUCK!)
Every parenting choice that we have tried to make thus far has
focused on what feels intuitivly right for our family. I need to
convince myself that this intuitve choice is indeed the right one--
in spite of the institutionalized voice in my head that keeps
distracting me.

simplemom3

> Every parenting choice that we have tried to make thus far has
> focused on what feels intuitivly right for our family. I need to
> convince myself that this intuitve choice is indeed the right one--
> in spite of the institutionalized voice in my head that keeps
> distracting me.
>
Cari -
I loved reading your post. What you are saying makes so much sense.
For me, it is a frequent battle between my intuition (6th sense, as my
grandma would say :) and those blasted SCHOOL voices.

As I think about this, it seems that almost every time I've gone
against my "gut," I live to regret it. This applies not only to
unschooling, but all areas of my life. Hmmmm....makes me think I
should trust myself a little more:-)

Sharon

mkesinding

--- In [email protected], "mamacari78"
<mamacari78@y...> wrote:
>
Those friends that I have who have children of the
> same age in public schools are very tense, with sometimes only one
> hour of free time to themselves each day. When they come over for a
> visit there is a noticable difference in the way the public school
> kiddos relate over the way I am accustomed seeing fellow
> homeschoolers kiddos relate. Just being witness to that is enough to
> convince me that we are doing the right thing.

I find this, too. They're very tense and competitive.
My unschooled 7yodd said to my public schooled 5yo niece
yesterday: "You know what? We went skating at a rink right across
from your daddy's work."
DD was just offering what she thought was an exciting piece of
information. Niece looked at her and said, "Well ... so? I've been
to an even closer one."
This is just one example. There is a constant one-upmanship against
my kids going on with this child and her 7yo brother. I'm beginning
to really dislike their company and often wonder if it's even harmful
for my kids, who honestly do not have a competitive bone in their body.
Also, this niece thrives on exclusionary play. She's always cliquing
with one or two of my three children and excluding one. The other day
she ran into my dd's room with dd1 and slammed the door behind her
leaving dd2 in tears locked out of her own room. I am tired of
dealing with my kids' hurt feelings when these schooled kids are
around. My kids know nothing about cliques and exclusionary play, and
I'd like to keep it that way.

Well, I guess I've turned this into a rant, but those are my
experiences with schooled kids.

Maria

multimomma

I'm curious as to how your dd1 reacted to your neice locking #2 out of the room. It seems
to me it could have been a valuble lesson for both of your daughters...
We have a similar situation in our family, most of the cousins live close together, leaving
our kids feeling left out when we visit. There have been interesting conversations about
why this happens and how we can work around it. Not seeing them would make it worse.

Anyway, my kids were schooled up til last year, and I don't see them acting like that. I
understand what you're feeling, but I think we can't generalize all schoolkids into being
the same.

Melissa

--- In [email protected], "mkesinding" <mkeasinding@y...> wrote:
> This is just one example. There is a constant one-upmanship against
> my kids going on with this child and her 7yo brother. I'm beginning
> to really dislike their company and often wonder if it's even harmful
> for my kids, who honestly do not have a competitive bone in their body.
> Also, this niece thrives on exclusionary play. She's always cliquing
> with one or two of my three children and excluding one. The other day
> she ran into my dd's room with dd1 and slammed the door behind her
> leaving dd2 in tears locked out of her own room. I am tired of
> dealing with my kids' hurt feelings when these schooled kids are
> around. My kids know nothing about cliques and exclusionary play, and
> I'd like to keep it that way.
>
> Well, I guess I've turned this into a rant, but those are my
> experiences with schooled kids.
>
> Maria
>

Ren Allen

"I
understand what you're feeling, but I think we can't generalize all
schoolkids
into being
the same."

Yeah, and even unschooled kids get mad at each other and lock siblings
out of their room.:)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

mkesinding

In all fairness we have had a lot of wonderful playdates with school
kids, too. So I didn't mean to generalize all school kids into
being the same -- I realise it sounded that way at the end of my
post.
But the experiences I've had with my niece and nephew in particular
(one-upping, cliques, competitiveness) I believe are, at least
partly, the result of their school situation. My nephew's classroom
is very heavily on a reward system with students receiving
individual check marks for good behavior, receiving group check
marks with the row their desk is in, getting the classroom teddy
bear to sit on their desk if they get the most check marks, getting
special treats etc for reading a certain number of books, and the
list goes on. My nephew has (according to my sil) been very
stressed with a little boy in his row who sometimes causes the rest
of his row to lose check marks. I can only imagine how that poor
little guy is ostracised by the rest of his row. I can just see the
jeers of the other kids in the winning row to those of the losing
rows. I realize that not all schools and classrooms run on such
reward systems, but in this particular situation with these
particular kids, their school experiences are affecting our
playdates. My sil thought the rewards were working so well at
school (making the kids do what the teacher wanted) that she
implemented the same type of reward system at home.

My niece who is in kindergarten, has had some 'friend' troubles
already, and I have no doubts that she is bringing these new 'social
skills' at play with my kids.

As for my dd1's reaction to the locked door, she unlocked the door
immediately and let me and dd2 in. I had a talk with all three
girls about including everyone that wanted to be included, not being
mean, etc. So I'm hoping it was a learning experience for all of
them.

I realize it's silly of me to blame playdate problems on my niece
and nephew. They are, afterall, just innocent little children. My
own children are not perfect. They do fight, say mean things, etc.
just like typical siblings. But like I said before, I do feel my
niece and nephew have picked up some negative social skills from
their school.


--- In [email protected], "multimomma"
<autismhelp@c...> wrote:
>
> I'm curious as to how your dd1 reacted to your neice locking #2
out of the room. It seems
> to me it could have been a valuble lesson for both of your
daughters...
> We have a similar situation in our family, most of the cousins
live close together, leaving
> our kids feeling left out when we visit. There have been
interesting conversations about
> why this happens and how we can work around it. Not seeing them
would make it worse.
>
> Anyway, my kids were schooled up til last year, and I don't see
them acting like that. I
> understand what you're feeling, but I think we can't generalize
all schoolkids into being
> the same.
>
> Melissa
>
> --- In [email protected], "mkesinding"
<mkeasinding@y...> wrote:
> > This is just one example. There is a constant one-upmanship
against
> > my kids going on with this child and her 7yo brother. I'm
beginning
> > to really dislike their company and often wonder if it's even
harmful
> > for my kids, who honestly do not have a competitive bone in
their body.
> > Also, this niece thrives on exclusionary play. She's always
cliquing
> > with one or two of my three children and excluding one. The
other day
> > she ran into my dd's room with dd1 and slammed the door behind
her
> > leaving dd2 in tears locked out of her own room. I am tired of
> > dealing with my kids' hurt feelings when these schooled kids are
> > around. My kids know nothing about cliques and exclusionary
play, and
> > I'd like to keep it that way.
> >
> > Well, I guess I've turned this into a rant, but those are my
> > experiences with schooled kids.
> >
> > Maria
> >
>

multimomma

sounds like your niece and nephew have a tough row to hoe. I think I'm pretty lucky that
while my kids were in school, it wasn't that bad. I've never understood the concept of
punishing an entire group of kids based on one child's problems. And since I've had my own
children, never really understood punishing kids for doing what they need to do to survive a
situation.

And now they can't even come home and relax, since their mom has implemented the same
program! I know a hs'ing mom who is hs'ing to protect her kids from the world. She's also
very strict and started putting her kids names on a board so that her husband can punish
when he gets home. I just sigh for them.

Melissa
--- In [email protected], "mkesinding" <mkeasinding@y...> wrote:

Jennifer Croce

< As for the car seat you need to find a reason for her to get in .
Yes allowing time is great but maybe she needs more time or different incentive.
a promise to go to a place she likes. >

A lot of the time lately we are going someplace fun like the park and she still won't comply.  I feel bad because my older dd is sitting there waiting to go and the little one is being challenging.  I have even asked my older dd to ask the younger one to get in her seat since I thought maybe it was just me she wasn't listening to, I think that worked once.  So am I to assume the park isn't something that interests her and shouldn't go?  But then my older dd will have a tantrum.  Sometimes I just feel like there is no way to make everyone happy.

 < We keep special single bad snacks in the car that are "car snacks" stuff that were
generally don't have anywhere but the car. >

and

< Have play time in the car. With lots of exploration and fun--turning on the windshield washers and blinkers--with you in it, she'll be safe and watched over. And let her explore it to her heart's content. That'll help get the power struggle out of the situation. >

Great ideas, I noticed lately that she loves jumping in the driver's seat and pushing all the buttons.  She was playing in it the other day while I was cleaning it .  Unfortunately, she stuck pennies in the tape player (I have to make the car child proof I guess. Luckily I don't play tapes).

In regards to the sanitary issue and going bottomless, I am just afraid of her having accidents.  I do have little potties in both our upstairs and downstairs bathrooms, but she is still in the very early stages of potty training.  Also, with the daycare I just can't have her running around bottomless since I don't think it is good role modeling for the other kids and I be in trouble if my licensor came and saw her like that.  I can work on letting her do it more whenever I can, but during daycare hours she has to be covered up (I know it is another con to having the daycare).  I will be closing the daycare at the end of June so she can run around bottomless all summer.  I am seeing too that the bottomless thing is just my hang up (man, I have a lot of them).  I just see it as an unsanitary thing. 

Thanks,
Jen

PS: Here is a quick afternote: this morning I took younger dd with me grocery shopping and brought along a child size shopping cart (she likes using the ones at another store but I knew this one didn't have them).  She brought a little purse and baby doll and helped me shop.  She was very helpful and compliant, in fact she was mad when we got home because she wanted to go back to the store.  I'll keep the cart in the back of my car (thank goodness I have a mini van) so we can pull it out when we shop.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Faith Void

Just a quickie here, I love this quote and maybe somebody else can
recall who it is attributed to as I can't look things up ok my phone.

Disobidience isn't an issue if obidience isn't the goal.

Just drop 'getting her to comply' from your mental vocabulary and
replace it with looking for ways to assist her in this transition.

Faith

Sent from my iPhone

On May 27, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Jennifer Croce
<jennifercroce37@...> wrote:

>
>
> < As for the car seat you need to find a reason for her to get in .
> Yes allowing time is great but maybe she needs more time or
> different incentive.
> a promise to go to a place she likes. >
>
> A lot of the time lately we are going someplace fun like the park
> and she still won't comply. I feel bad because my older dd is
> sitting there waiting to go and the little one is being
> challenging. I have even asked my older dd to ask the younger one
> to get in her seat since I thought maybe it was just me she wasn't
> listening to, I think that worked once. So am I to assume the park
> isn't something that interests her and shouldn't go? But then my
> older dd will have a tantrum. Sometimes I just feel like there is
> no way to make everyone happy.
>
> < We keep special single bad snacks in the car that are "car
> snacks" stuff that were
> generally don't have anywhere but the car. >
>
> and
>
> < Have play time in the car. With lots of exploration and fun--
> turning on the windshield washers and blinkers--with you in it,
> she'll be safe and watched over. And let her explore it to her
> heart's content. That'll help get the power struggle out of the
> situation. >
>
> Great ideas, I noticed lately that she loves jumping in the driver's
> seat and pushing all the buttons. She was playing in it the other
> day while I was cleaning it . Unfortunately, she stuck pennies in
> the tape player (I have to make the car child proof I guess. Luckily
> I don't play tapes).
>
> In regards to the sanitary issue and going bottomless, I am just
> afraid of her having accidents. I do have little potties in both
> our upstairs and downstairs bathrooms, but she is still in the very
> early stages of potty training. Also, with the daycare I just can't
> have her running around bottomless since I don't think it is good
> role modeling for the other kids and I be in trouble if my licensor
> came and saw her like that. I can work on letting her do it more
> whenever I can, but during daycare hours she has to be covered up (I
> know it is another con to having the daycare). I will be closing
> the daycare at the end of June so she can run around bottomless all
> summer. I am seeing too that the bottomless thing is just my hang
> up (man, I have a lot of them). I just see it as an unsanitary thing.
>
> Thanks,
> Jen
>
> PS: Here is a quick afternote: this morning I took younger dd with
> me grocery shopping and brought along a child size shopping cart
> (she likes using the ones at another store but I knew this one
> didn't have them). She brought a little purse and baby doll and
> helped me shop. She was very helpful and compliant, in fact she was
> mad when we got home because she wanted to go back to the store.
> I'll keep the cart in the back of my car (thank goodness I have a
> mini van) so we can pull it out when we shop.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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