Daughter wanting to try new activities but stopping out of fear
cosmicpuma
Hi all,
This is my first post and I have lurked on and off for years.
Here's a bit of background. My kids are 8 (DD) and 5 (DS) and my daughter is the one I'm asking for thoughts on.
Ian (DS) has never wanted to take a class. I'm ok with that. He says that he might want to when he's older. When something new comes up, like a homeschool parkour class I mention it to him, no pushing. He is a bit of a perfectionist, but is usually willing to keep trying something even if he gets so upset he's crying over it. That's what happens with video games sometimes. He always goes back because he loves playing them. Sometimes my husband and I help him when he asks. Usually once we help him he goes on to play the level again by himself and he gets through since he's seen how it's done.
My daughter is an extreme perfectionist. She is in all aspects of her life. Her response when she wants to do something new is to try for a moment, throw it down, say she can't do it, then want me to do it for her. It really slows down her learning anything. These are things she wants to do, not things I've asked her to do. It's really frustrating for her and us.
Shannon (DD) has wanted to take certain classes over the years. She has tried ballet at two different studios (first instructor told the class that what they had done was "bad" and to do it again. My daughter was 5 and didn't take well to that type of instruction. She wanted an apology from the instructor since she wasn't kind to them) and recently an art class. She also wants to try guitar and horseback riding. She tries a class for 1 - 3 days and that's it. Sometimes she says yes to a class, I sign her up, and then she refuses to go. She is doing the same thing at classes as she does at home. When she doesn't know how to do something really well she doesn't want to try. She's scared. So she just shuts down and wants to hide.
The last time was yesterday which was her third art class. The instructor spoke to me after the class saying that Shannon wouldn't try the new activity. It was drawing her own face. Shannon hid in the bathroom and around the corner of the room by the front door. The instructor explained to her (and me afterwards) that she legally has to be able to see all the kids during the class time so she couldn't stay by the front door.
What I am seeing is that Shannon isn't a child who wants to talk about her feelings. She wants what she wants and she doesn't want to hear anyone say anything different. Any time we won't do what she desires she comes out hitting, literally, at me. I can understand getting upset, everyone has a right to it, but we need to compromise sometimes since more than one person lives in our house.
Last night she told her dad (and this morning to me) that she quit art class and wants to move on to horseback riding lessons. My husband didn't respond past trying to talk about fears. I admit I'm tired of spending money and then she gives up. I wouldn't mind her quitting if it was because she didn't like the classes. What upsets me is that she gives up on a passion. She loves art. She's quite often doing something artistic at home and she had finally said she wanted to take a class to learn more. So with some trepidation I signed her up and as luck would have it her best friend signed up as well. And like the other things she has tried she gave up as soon as something new was presented.
What happened with ballet is that she stopped liking/loving ballet as soon as she had a new experience (in the first class at the new studio) where she didn't know how to do a move. After that she said she didn't like ballet anymore and wouldn't even practice at home like she used to. She would make up her own moves and dance around the house. The class stopped all of that. I'm afraid she's going to with art now.
Both guitar and horseback riding have a fair amount of money for start up (a guitar and other supplies before lessons and shoes/helmet before riding). I don't have the money to spend on those things if she isn't willing to give them a try for two months. I have talked to her about it before. I want her to really give things a try before saying no. She's never quit because she didn't like the activity. She's always quit out of fear. That is what she tells us. She is afraid to try new things out of fear of not being good at them.
I admit that this morning I told her that I am not willing to pay for either guitar or horseback riding for quite some time based on her past actions of not giving a class a chance. We have limited funds. Their are two more art classes that have been paid for (since you pay a month at a time and the first class was a free trial). Once again we are losing money due to her perfectionism/fears.
At heart I have a perfectionist. I know that. She is a perfectionist in all aspects of her life. I am not a perfectionist to her extent, but I can understand her a bit. But it's killing us that she is giving up her passions out of fear. I know that money is my issue, but I'd love to somehow work with her to overcome her fear of learning new things. It's also why she doesn't want to learn to read (she's told me this).
Thoughts? I know I've rambled and I'm not sure I got everything across very well. I'm hoping I can get some ideas from you wonderful people. I feel a bit lost.
Allison
This is my first post and I have lurked on and off for years.
Here's a bit of background. My kids are 8 (DD) and 5 (DS) and my daughter is the one I'm asking for thoughts on.
Ian (DS) has never wanted to take a class. I'm ok with that. He says that he might want to when he's older. When something new comes up, like a homeschool parkour class I mention it to him, no pushing. He is a bit of a perfectionist, but is usually willing to keep trying something even if he gets so upset he's crying over it. That's what happens with video games sometimes. He always goes back because he loves playing them. Sometimes my husband and I help him when he asks. Usually once we help him he goes on to play the level again by himself and he gets through since he's seen how it's done.
My daughter is an extreme perfectionist. She is in all aspects of her life. Her response when she wants to do something new is to try for a moment, throw it down, say she can't do it, then want me to do it for her. It really slows down her learning anything. These are things she wants to do, not things I've asked her to do. It's really frustrating for her and us.
Shannon (DD) has wanted to take certain classes over the years. She has tried ballet at two different studios (first instructor told the class that what they had done was "bad" and to do it again. My daughter was 5 and didn't take well to that type of instruction. She wanted an apology from the instructor since she wasn't kind to them) and recently an art class. She also wants to try guitar and horseback riding. She tries a class for 1 - 3 days and that's it. Sometimes she says yes to a class, I sign her up, and then she refuses to go. She is doing the same thing at classes as she does at home. When she doesn't know how to do something really well she doesn't want to try. She's scared. So she just shuts down and wants to hide.
The last time was yesterday which was her third art class. The instructor spoke to me after the class saying that Shannon wouldn't try the new activity. It was drawing her own face. Shannon hid in the bathroom and around the corner of the room by the front door. The instructor explained to her (and me afterwards) that she legally has to be able to see all the kids during the class time so she couldn't stay by the front door.
What I am seeing is that Shannon isn't a child who wants to talk about her feelings. She wants what she wants and she doesn't want to hear anyone say anything different. Any time we won't do what she desires she comes out hitting, literally, at me. I can understand getting upset, everyone has a right to it, but we need to compromise sometimes since more than one person lives in our house.
Last night she told her dad (and this morning to me) that she quit art class and wants to move on to horseback riding lessons. My husband didn't respond past trying to talk about fears. I admit I'm tired of spending money and then she gives up. I wouldn't mind her quitting if it was because she didn't like the classes. What upsets me is that she gives up on a passion. She loves art. She's quite often doing something artistic at home and she had finally said she wanted to take a class to learn more. So with some trepidation I signed her up and as luck would have it her best friend signed up as well. And like the other things she has tried she gave up as soon as something new was presented.
What happened with ballet is that she stopped liking/loving ballet as soon as she had a new experience (in the first class at the new studio) where she didn't know how to do a move. After that she said she didn't like ballet anymore and wouldn't even practice at home like she used to. She would make up her own moves and dance around the house. The class stopped all of that. I'm afraid she's going to with art now.
Both guitar and horseback riding have a fair amount of money for start up (a guitar and other supplies before lessons and shoes/helmet before riding). I don't have the money to spend on those things if she isn't willing to give them a try for two months. I have talked to her about it before. I want her to really give things a try before saying no. She's never quit because she didn't like the activity. She's always quit out of fear. That is what she tells us. She is afraid to try new things out of fear of not being good at them.
I admit that this morning I told her that I am not willing to pay for either guitar or horseback riding for quite some time based on her past actions of not giving a class a chance. We have limited funds. Their are two more art classes that have been paid for (since you pay a month at a time and the first class was a free trial). Once again we are losing money due to her perfectionism/fears.
At heart I have a perfectionist. I know that. She is a perfectionist in all aspects of her life. I am not a perfectionist to her extent, but I can understand her a bit. But it's killing us that she is giving up her passions out of fear. I know that money is my issue, but I'd love to somehow work with her to overcome her fear of learning new things. It's also why she doesn't want to learn to read (she's told me this).
Thoughts? I know I've rambled and I'm not sure I got everything across very well. I'm hoping I can get some ideas from you wonderful people. I feel a bit lost.
Allison
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:58 AM, cosmicpuma wrote:
Rather than trying to change her, accept that aspect of her. Then help her find ways to do what she wants. She will develop strategies that will help her throughout her life. Being upset with who she is, wishing she were different, will only make her feel bad about herself.
How can she do art in other ways? Does she need a class? Or is that the first thing you think of when you think of helping her? If she wants a class, look for free ones. Perhaps a tutor who would help her do what she wants. (It might be cheaper than paying for a month of classes when she only takes one!)
Are there stables around that have helmets? Will they allow her to use boots she already has? Or do you have 2nd hand clothing places where you can shop? It's the end of winter so boots should be appearing soon. The stable my daughter rode at had helmets and let her use work boots.
Is there someone you can borrow a guitar from? Craigslist? Freecycle? Yard sales? eBay? Kids quit guitar all the time! Wal-mart sells the First Act (I think) series (acoustic and electric) that are actually pretty good for beginners. (They're sturdy and stay in tune longer.)
It's frustrating being with her. But imagine how frustrating it is *being* her! You wish she'd change that aspect of herself so she would *be* so frustrated but she can't. So imagine how frustrating it is to have people frustrated with you on top of all that.
Talk to her before hand and come up with options for typical things she encounters. *Don't* have in mind how she should behave. *Don't* come up with strategies that will move her towards that. Open up the problem solving to *her* ideas. Then add to them so others aren't being hurt.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My daughter is an extreme perfectionist.And that's who she is. It's who she will always be.
Rather than trying to change her, accept that aspect of her. Then help her find ways to do what she wants. She will develop strategies that will help her throughout her life. Being upset with who she is, wishing she were different, will only make her feel bad about herself.
How can she do art in other ways? Does she need a class? Or is that the first thing you think of when you think of helping her? If she wants a class, look for free ones. Perhaps a tutor who would help her do what she wants. (It might be cheaper than paying for a month of classes when she only takes one!)
Are there stables around that have helmets? Will they allow her to use boots she already has? Or do you have 2nd hand clothing places where you can shop? It's the end of winter so boots should be appearing soon. The stable my daughter rode at had helmets and let her use work boots.
Is there someone you can borrow a guitar from? Craigslist? Freecycle? Yard sales? eBay? Kids quit guitar all the time! Wal-mart sells the First Act (I think) series (acoustic and electric) that are actually pretty good for beginners. (They're sturdy and stay in tune longer.)
It's frustrating being with her. But imagine how frustrating it is *being* her! You wish she'd change that aspect of herself so she would *be* so frustrated but she can't. So imagine how frustrating it is to have people frustrated with you on top of all that.
Talk to her before hand and come up with options for typical things she encounters. *Don't* have in mind how she should behave. *Don't* come up with strategies that will move her towards that. Open up the problem solving to *her* ideas. Then add to them so others aren't being hurt.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Why does she want to do classes instead of just doing, say, art at home? Does she think there's something going on in a class that she can't get at home?
Does she know that you call her a perfectionist?
When she talked about being afraid to learn to read, how did that conversation go? "I'm afraid to learn to read because I'm a perfectionist"??
Nance
Does she know that you call her a perfectionist?
When she talked about being afraid to learn to read, how did that conversation go? "I'm afraid to learn to read because I'm a perfectionist"??
Nance
--- In [email protected], "cosmicpuma" <cosmicpuma@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> This is my first post and I have lurked on and off for years.
>
>
Meredith
"cosmicpuma" <cosmicpuma@...> wrote:
You don't know that it's slowing anything down - unless you're refusing to do things for her, and then you are slowing her down. She just learns in a way you don't expect.
She may need to see a whole process several times before she's comfortable trying to duplicated any part of it - my stepson is like that. He needs to watch other people do things, and talk about that, so he can have a kind of gestalt idea in his head - a whole, big picture - before he can dive in. He's learning a lot while he's watching and talking... but it doesn't look at all like the way anyone else in the family learns. I think of it as whole-to-part learning where the rest of us are part-to-whole learners. Another way to think of it is "intuitive" learning as opposed to "logical" learning - intuitive learners need to have a grasp of the big picture to understand the details.
Set her up to observe rather than participate. It might even be better for her to watch "experts" in any particular field than other students - because what she needs to see is the best possible examples so she can emulate them.
Alternately, she may actually be a very logical, part-to-whole learner but need a lot more time to experiment and play with the materials than she'll ever get in a class. Classes are perfect for pushing groups of people through a project or list of projects - and for some, that's a great way to learn! But especially classes for children have almost no sensitivity to the fact that some people need a lot of time to explore the materials - even classes that build in time for that kind of exploration eventually nudge students toward a project, sometimes before they're ready. And that leaves kids feeling incompetent.
Part of the problem, I'm guessing, is that you're still struggling with fairly narrow view of learning. Because I'm willing to be she learns lots of new things on a regular basis, and you're overlooking those. See her learning through play, through watching, through listening. The way she learns may not look like others around her - that's okay. But if you can't see - or at least trust - that she Is learning, then your lack of understanding will erode her self esteem. She is learning all the time. Celebrate that and look for ways to support her in doing things she enjoys, without the pressure to achieve or perform ("learn" by someone else's standards).
---Meredith
>> My daughter is an extreme perfectionist. She is in all aspects of her life. Her response when she wants to do something new is to try for a moment, throw it down, say she can't do it, then want me to do it for her. It really slows down her learning anything.****************
You don't know that it's slowing anything down - unless you're refusing to do things for her, and then you are slowing her down. She just learns in a way you don't expect.
She may need to see a whole process several times before she's comfortable trying to duplicated any part of it - my stepson is like that. He needs to watch other people do things, and talk about that, so he can have a kind of gestalt idea in his head - a whole, big picture - before he can dive in. He's learning a lot while he's watching and talking... but it doesn't look at all like the way anyone else in the family learns. I think of it as whole-to-part learning where the rest of us are part-to-whole learners. Another way to think of it is "intuitive" learning as opposed to "logical" learning - intuitive learners need to have a grasp of the big picture to understand the details.
> Shannon (DD) has wanted to take certain classes over the years.I'd steer her away from classes in a big way! In fact, too many classes and lessons seem like a big part of the problem - from my standpoint, she's had an enormous number of lessons so far. Way too many.
Set her up to observe rather than participate. It might even be better for her to watch "experts" in any particular field than other students - because what she needs to see is the best possible examples so she can emulate them.
Alternately, she may actually be a very logical, part-to-whole learner but need a lot more time to experiment and play with the materials than she'll ever get in a class. Classes are perfect for pushing groups of people through a project or list of projects - and for some, that's a great way to learn! But especially classes for children have almost no sensitivity to the fact that some people need a lot of time to explore the materials - even classes that build in time for that kind of exploration eventually nudge students toward a project, sometimes before they're ready. And that leaves kids feeling incompetent.
>>I'd love to somehow work with her to overcome her fear of learning new things.*************
Part of the problem, I'm guessing, is that you're still struggling with fairly narrow view of learning. Because I'm willing to be she learns lots of new things on a regular basis, and you're overlooking those. See her learning through play, through watching, through listening. The way she learns may not look like others around her - that's okay. But if you can't see - or at least trust - that she Is learning, then your lack of understanding will erode her self esteem. She is learning all the time. Celebrate that and look for ways to support her in doing things she enjoys, without the pressure to achieve or perform ("learn" by someone else's standards).
---Meredith
Meredith
It occured to me that another reason for her hesitation could be that she doesn't like to learn "in front of other people". Learning something new can feel very vulnerable! and it can be easier to move through that vulnerability someplace she feels safe and private, especially at first.
That could be tied in to needing to watch more, too - because part of what she's learning is how to make mistakes, how to fail. And if she's not getting enough of a chance to watch, she's not getting to see how mistakes happen. Even very skilled people make mistakes - and one of the wonders of watching a person with a high degree of skill is seeing the grace with which he or she handles mistakes.
So in that vein... does your daughter get to see you make mistakes on a regular basis? That's important! There were things I never wanted to do in front of my dad as a kid because he always seemed so capable. But I know my mom burned herself while ironing, cut herself cooking, scorched her hair with a curling iron (and told stories of setting it on fire with the old fashioned type). I still have the one dress she ever made me, complete with her bloodstains on it. She actually was just as capable as my dad - but with her I got to see mistakes, and that made it easier to try things.
And yet at the same time, she was super-competent socially And one of those people who dives right in to things. Socially, I prefered to watch (so that's something to keep in mind in terms of how learning happens - it's different for different skills!) but because she coaxed and encouraged and pushed me to join in, I didn't get a chance to do that. And school did the same thing so I Really didn't get a chance to learn social skills until I was in my late 20s and got to meet people who understood introversion and the need to watch. Then I got to see people make Social mistakes and handle them gracefully - and I'm slowly learning to do that, myself.
---Meredith
That could be tied in to needing to watch more, too - because part of what she's learning is how to make mistakes, how to fail. And if she's not getting enough of a chance to watch, she's not getting to see how mistakes happen. Even very skilled people make mistakes - and one of the wonders of watching a person with a high degree of skill is seeing the grace with which he or she handles mistakes.
So in that vein... does your daughter get to see you make mistakes on a regular basis? That's important! There were things I never wanted to do in front of my dad as a kid because he always seemed so capable. But I know my mom burned herself while ironing, cut herself cooking, scorched her hair with a curling iron (and told stories of setting it on fire with the old fashioned type). I still have the one dress she ever made me, complete with her bloodstains on it. She actually was just as capable as my dad - but with her I got to see mistakes, and that made it easier to try things.
And yet at the same time, she was super-competent socially And one of those people who dives right in to things. Socially, I prefered to watch (so that's something to keep in mind in terms of how learning happens - it's different for different skills!) but because she coaxed and encouraged and pushed me to join in, I didn't get a chance to do that. And school did the same thing so I Really didn't get a chance to learn social skills until I was in my late 20s and got to meet people who understood introversion and the need to watch. Then I got to see people make Social mistakes and handle them gracefully - and I'm slowly learning to do that, myself.
---Meredith
Debra Rossing
>She may need to see a whole process several times before she's comfortable trying to duplicated any part of it - my stepson is like that. He needs to watch other people do things, and talk about that, so he can have a kind of gestalt idea in his head - a whole, big picture - before he can dive inMy DS is like that, particularly with videogames - there are some games that he will buy with his own money or request as birthday/holiday gifts that it'll be months before he actually plays. He'll watch DH play through several times before he starts. Part of it is getting the whole picture in his head, part of it is removing some of the 'unexpected' stuff - if he's already seen that going into this room has a something that jumps out, it's less difficult for him than not knowing, and part of it is creating for himself a 'reference' person - when DS gets stuck on something, he knows that DH has already figured that out and can give him tips, tricks, pointers on how to do whatever it is. Kinda clever actually. It's a strategy he developed when he was younger and didn't have all the skills he needed to look up and read through walk thrus and guides by himself. Now he can and sometimes when DH gets stuck, DS will provide info from a play thru or wiki about the game that he read. So, now it works both ways.
All that to say that maybe a different 'type' of class might be needed (if a class at all) - something where it's a bit more free form and just watching from the periphery is fine. If that's okay, she may pick up what she needs by watching and then it'll show up in what she does at home, where she is free to do her own thing without the critiquing and expectations that go with any kind of performance related class.
Deb R
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