What do you do when your child doubts herself?
Tina M
Greetings fellow travelers!
My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
Tina
in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
Tina
in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
Renée Cooper
I'm sure you'll receive lots of great advice on this one. Personally, I have my own moments like this, where others manage somehow to make me feel less-than. Do you? If you do, think about how you handle it for yourself. Because whether it's schooly facts or something else (appearance, housekeeping skills, views on politics or religion, performance at work...) there will times in life where others try to put you down. We all need coping strategies to handle such situations. Would your daughter be open to you sharing an experience you have had, or how you deal with people who feel threatened when you aren't the same as they are?
She may also be old enough to talk about the motivation behind their actions. Why do you suppose they did that to her today? It's quite possible they are jealous that she doesn't have to go to middle school. Frankly, I found those few years to be a hellish nightmare. I had 2 friends from church who were homeschooled (back then it was correspondence course schooling) -- I was so jealous! When my daughter is feeling low like this, I try to do something to make her feel special, like a little love note, doing her nails, going out and doing something together. -Renee(oh, and yay for moving to the PNW! Maybe I will get to meet you at Life is Good conference over Memorial Day weekend.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She may also be old enough to talk about the motivation behind their actions. Why do you suppose they did that to her today? It's quite possible they are jealous that she doesn't have to go to middle school. Frankly, I found those few years to be a hellish nightmare. I had 2 friends from church who were homeschooled (back then it was correspondence course schooling) -- I was so jealous! When my daughter is feeling low like this, I try to do something to make her feel special, like a little love note, doing her nails, going out and doing something together. -Renee(oh, and yay for moving to the PNW! Maybe I will get to meet you at Life is Good conference over Memorial Day weekend.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
You could give your daughter some one-liners -- "I'm not a trained seal here to answer questions for your or anyone else." or something less confrontational, hmmm, can't think of anything, mean people tick me off. . .
Give your nice, polite young daughter permission to be straight-forward and a bit rude if necessary. There are rude and mean people in the world and she needs to deal with them. Not by doubting herself and her abilities but by confronting their ignorance or at least getting them to back the heck off.
Nance
Give your nice, polite young daughter permission to be straight-forward and a bit rude if necessary. There are rude and mean people in the world and she needs to deal with them. Not by doubting herself and her abilities but by confronting their ignorance or at least getting them to back the heck off.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "Tina M" <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings fellow travelers!
>
> My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
>
> Tina
> in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
>
lindaguitar
My daughter, now 19 and in college, has doubted herself many times, and has even told me that she feels "stupid" - especially when it comes to math. (She has the kind of extreme difficulty with abstract math that, if she were tested for learning disabilities, would probably get her a diagnosis of "dyscalculia", which would lead to her being able to get certain accommodations in college, but at this point, she doesn't want to have to pay for the testing or ask for special accommodations. She's doing very well in everything else.)
I have usually responded by pointing out her strengths and talents, and by reminding her that she can learn all the information that schooled kids learn, if and when *she* chooses to learn it, and in her own way. It doesn't always make her feel better in the moment, when she's busy comparing herself to friends (other homeschooled friends, actually) who are more advanced than she in subjects that she doesn't know a lot about. But then there are all the subjects that she *does* know a lot about, and all her artistic talents, etc. Overall, she recognizes her strengths/talents, as well as her weaknesses. And I know that she appreciates the benefits of having been unschooled. (She has told me so!) Especially now that she is in college, and sees the results of public schooling. (Not an impressive lot, overall.)
Your daughter can't stop the schooled kids from being mean. (As the previous reply mentioned, they are probably jealous that she doesn't have to go to school and do all the forced busywork that they have to do, and deal with all the test anxiety, etc.) But she can let them know that she gets to choose what to learn, and when to learn it, and that learning information in a different order / at a different age than kids learn it in public schools doesn't make her any less intelligent than they are.
She can let them know that homeschooled (she doesn't have to say "unschooled" when talking to them) kids generally get into good colleges, or start their own businesses, and know everything they need to know to do whatever they choose to do in life.
And she can tell them that learning isn't supposed to be "hard", and that waiting until one is older (and more interested) to learn some of the school-ish stuff makes it easier to learn - or at least makes the learning more enjoyable.
Perhaps she could also talk about what she has been focusing on or has learned about (in addition to gymnastics) instead of spending her time memorizing math facts that she can get from any calculator. :-)
Linda
I have usually responded by pointing out her strengths and talents, and by reminding her that she can learn all the information that schooled kids learn, if and when *she* chooses to learn it, and in her own way. It doesn't always make her feel better in the moment, when she's busy comparing herself to friends (other homeschooled friends, actually) who are more advanced than she in subjects that she doesn't know a lot about. But then there are all the subjects that she *does* know a lot about, and all her artistic talents, etc. Overall, she recognizes her strengths/talents, as well as her weaknesses. And I know that she appreciates the benefits of having been unschooled. (She has told me so!) Especially now that she is in college, and sees the results of public schooling. (Not an impressive lot, overall.)
Your daughter can't stop the schooled kids from being mean. (As the previous reply mentioned, they are probably jealous that she doesn't have to go to school and do all the forced busywork that they have to do, and deal with all the test anxiety, etc.) But she can let them know that she gets to choose what to learn, and when to learn it, and that learning information in a different order / at a different age than kids learn it in public schools doesn't make her any less intelligent than they are.
She can let them know that homeschooled (she doesn't have to say "unschooled" when talking to them) kids generally get into good colleges, or start their own businesses, and know everything they need to know to do whatever they choose to do in life.
And she can tell them that learning isn't supposed to be "hard", and that waiting until one is older (and more interested) to learn some of the school-ish stuff makes it easier to learn - or at least makes the learning more enjoyable.
Perhaps she could also talk about what she has been focusing on or has learned about (in addition to gymnastics) instead of spending her time memorizing math facts that she can get from any calculator. :-)
Linda
--- In [email protected], "Tina M" <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings fellow travelers!
>
> My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
>
> Tina
> in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Sep 24, 2012, at 6:51 PM, Tina M wrote:
I think it's unfortunate that smart has come to mean a head full of facts. If that were true a dictionary, an encyclopedia, the internet is way "smarter" than any human could ever be.
Being able to recite information *looks* and *sounds* smart. But it's no smarter than the book sitting on the shelf. It's just a collection of facts. What's truly smart is being able to *use* what you know in *new* ways to solve real life problems. Anyone can memorize facts. Smart people can go beyond books and come up with new ways to do things.
What she could do is memorize some facts that they're not likely to know. Cool but impressive stuff that connects to things she's interested in. :-) That's all that they're doing. But the difference is they don't get to choose what gets crammed into their heads. Your daughter *could* cram the same stuff in if she wanted. *But* she could also let those facts just get absorbed by using them for real life things and by the time she's 18 she'll have it all and never have had to do any boring memorization.
They're angry that your daughter doesn't have to do what they're told they have no choice about doing. They're afraid for her because they *have* to believe what they're doing is worthwhile, otherwise it means they're wasting hours and hours of every day.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.'Because she's going in a different order than the kids in school. RIght now she's learning things that are far more important and interesting to her. The kids in school *have* to learn what they're told to learn. They don't get a choice.
I think it's unfortunate that smart has come to mean a head full of facts. If that were true a dictionary, an encyclopedia, the internet is way "smarter" than any human could ever be.
Being able to recite information *looks* and *sounds* smart. But it's no smarter than the book sitting on the shelf. It's just a collection of facts. What's truly smart is being able to *use* what you know in *new* ways to solve real life problems. Anyone can memorize facts. Smart people can go beyond books and come up with new ways to do things.
What she could do is memorize some facts that they're not likely to know. Cool but impressive stuff that connects to things she's interested in. :-) That's all that they're doing. But the difference is they don't get to choose what gets crammed into their heads. Your daughter *could* cram the same stuff in if she wanted. *But* she could also let those facts just get absorbed by using them for real life things and by the time she's 18 she'll have it all and never have had to do any boring memorization.
> The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled.The reason they're so negative is because at 12 they're just realizing how boring and seemingly pointless all this stuff is they're learning in school. BUT THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. They have *at least* 6 more years of this ahead of them. So they have two choices: get angry that their time is being wasted. And spend the next 6 years seeing the truth and being angry about it. (And many do! They become the "problem" kids when their only problem is they see the truth.) Or buy into the idea that it must be important even if they can't see why.
They're angry that your daughter doesn't have to do what they're told they have no choice about doing. They're afraid for her because they *have* to believe what they're doing is worthwhile, otherwise it means they're wasting hours and hours of every day.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy Lemmon
I have been there with my daughter, she is now 17 and in college. She has doubted herself many times and I am sure still will at times. I think reminding her that everyone learns different things at different times and I am SURE that there are things that she excels at that this gal from gymnastics does not! Some examples of how my daughter has realized this is:
* She was into theater and one day she was talking to another girl her age (age 14 at the time). They were talking about grocery shopping and cooking and the other little girl said she had never gone into a store by herself to buy something, that her mom always did that. And she did not know how to cook except in the microwave. My daughter was amazed because I give her a list and send her into the store all the time. And she cooks (sometimes on a wood cookstove) and can put together a complete meal for our family of eight.
* In May she was hired for a summer job and has excelled very quickly to be the lead person. Her boss praises her all the time at how well she does. Responsibility is something that a lot of time homeschoolers learn that is not taught real well in the public school.
* This fall she started a dual enrollment program with the local college and she has been amazed at how brief and 'copy from the book' the discussions and answers of her public school classmates are ... she on the other hand like to research and really think about her answers and pose questions, etc... This is the bottom line ... public school student (a lot of the time) know how to do their 'work' real well but are not always so great at thinking for themselves. Facts spewed back are not always a sign of KNOWING something.
Whenever she would doubt herself I would talk to her about the things that she does know ... our focus has been very different than most ... I have always wanted my children to think and make decisions for themselves. So instead of teaching facts and figures we have always taught skills. So when they have been faced with questions like "do you know what 12 +12 is? Even if they can not rattle off the answer, my question to your daughter is "do you know how to figure it out?" because that is indeed what is important! And if she does not know, then use it as a teaching moment! My daughter other daughter is 14 and she really dislikes math ... she knows some very basic concepts and that is it ... she does not like doing facts! I was told by a college math professor that in the event that she needed a certain math skill for a job or college she would easily be able to learn it with a little studying ... otherwise basic math skills is all she needs!
Also maybe sharing with your daughter some tools to communicate with others ... what things she does know. My oldest always felt off guard when someone asked her "what are you doing in school?" and she would say "I do not go to school." This always caused a lot of questioning. So we thought about some things that she could answer ... how to describe her schooling to fit into the classrooms of public school. This helped her be able to talk with others more about it and not feel uncomfortable.
Also sharing about all the amazing homeschoolers in this world ... http://www.homeschoolacademy.com/famoushomeschoolers.htm
Just some thoughts ... maybe talking with other homeschoolers her age and older who have gone through this. My daughter may be willing to email with her if that would help. I think knowing your not alone in this journey is good!
Good luck!
With peace, love and kindness,
Amy Lemmon
amylemmon@...
Blog: Six Flower Mom
________________________________
From: Tina M <tmcadams81670@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:51 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] What do you do when your child doubts herself?
Greetings fellow travelers!
My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
Tina
in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
* She was into theater and one day she was talking to another girl her age (age 14 at the time). They were talking about grocery shopping and cooking and the other little girl said she had never gone into a store by herself to buy something, that her mom always did that. And she did not know how to cook except in the microwave. My daughter was amazed because I give her a list and send her into the store all the time. And she cooks (sometimes on a wood cookstove) and can put together a complete meal for our family of eight.
* In May she was hired for a summer job and has excelled very quickly to be the lead person. Her boss praises her all the time at how well she does. Responsibility is something that a lot of time homeschoolers learn that is not taught real well in the public school.
* This fall she started a dual enrollment program with the local college and she has been amazed at how brief and 'copy from the book' the discussions and answers of her public school classmates are ... she on the other hand like to research and really think about her answers and pose questions, etc... This is the bottom line ... public school student (a lot of the time) know how to do their 'work' real well but are not always so great at thinking for themselves. Facts spewed back are not always a sign of KNOWING something.
Whenever she would doubt herself I would talk to her about the things that she does know ... our focus has been very different than most ... I have always wanted my children to think and make decisions for themselves. So instead of teaching facts and figures we have always taught skills. So when they have been faced with questions like "do you know what 12 +12 is? Even if they can not rattle off the answer, my question to your daughter is "do you know how to figure it out?" because that is indeed what is important! And if she does not know, then use it as a teaching moment! My daughter other daughter is 14 and she really dislikes math ... she knows some very basic concepts and that is it ... she does not like doing facts! I was told by a college math professor that in the event that she needed a certain math skill for a job or college she would easily be able to learn it with a little studying ... otherwise basic math skills is all she needs!
Also maybe sharing with your daughter some tools to communicate with others ... what things she does know. My oldest always felt off guard when someone asked her "what are you doing in school?" and she would say "I do not go to school." This always caused a lot of questioning. So we thought about some things that she could answer ... how to describe her schooling to fit into the classrooms of public school. This helped her be able to talk with others more about it and not feel uncomfortable.
Also sharing about all the amazing homeschoolers in this world ... http://www.homeschoolacademy.com/famoushomeschoolers.htm
Just some thoughts ... maybe talking with other homeschoolers her age and older who have gone through this. My daughter may be willing to email with her if that would help. I think knowing your not alone in this journey is good!
Good luck!
With peace, love and kindness,
Amy Lemmon
amylemmon@...
Blog: Six Flower Mom
________________________________
From: Tina M <tmcadams81670@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 5:51 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] What do you do when your child doubts herself?
Greetings fellow travelers!
My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
Tina
in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Amy Lemmon <amylemmon@...> wrote:
I'd ask first... actually I wouldn't even start with "do you know how to figure it out?" I'd start by trying to get a sense of why my kid was telling me. Maybe she'd be looking for commiseration or reassurance that the information is unimportant. Maybe she's like to memorize some schooly facts to relate - or like someone else suggested, Other kinds of facts which are interesting and sound "brainy". Maybe she'd like a snappy comeback like "who cares! that's what calculators are for! Do you know how to make minecraft mods? That would be useful." If she Wanted to learn how to figure something out - beyond pulling up the calculator on the computer - then there's no reason not to show her, but I wouldn't start there unless I had a child who really liked that sort of thing (mine don't!).
---Meredith
>o when they have been faced with questions like "do you know what 12 +12 is? Even if they can not rattle off the answer, my question to your daughter is "do you know how to figure it out?" because that is indeed what is important! And if she does not know, then use it as a teaching moment!****************
I'd ask first... actually I wouldn't even start with "do you know how to figure it out?" I'd start by trying to get a sense of why my kid was telling me. Maybe she'd be looking for commiseration or reassurance that the information is unimportant. Maybe she's like to memorize some schooly facts to relate - or like someone else suggested, Other kinds of facts which are interesting and sound "brainy". Maybe she'd like a snappy comeback like "who cares! that's what calculators are for! Do you know how to make minecraft mods? That would be useful." If she Wanted to learn how to figure something out - beyond pulling up the calculator on the computer - then there's no reason not to show her, but I wouldn't start there unless I had a child who really liked that sort of thing (mine don't!).
---Meredith
Amy Lemmon
I agree Meredith ... I was just thinking if she DID want to know then it is easy enough to use that moment to teach it .. I see I was not clear about that!
With peace, love and kindness,
Amy Lemmon
amylemmon@...
Blog: Six Flower Mom
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:13 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: What do you do when your child doubts herself?
Amy Lemmon <amylemmon@...> wrote:
I'd ask first... actually I wouldn't even start with "do you know how to figure it out?" I'd start by trying to get a sense of why my kid was telling me. Maybe she'd be looking for commiseration or reassurance that the information is unimportant. Maybe she's like to memorize some schooly facts to relate - or like someone else suggested, Other kinds of facts which are interesting and sound "brainy". Maybe she'd like a snappy comeback like "who cares! that's what calculators are for! Do you know how to make minecraft mods? That would be useful." If she Wanted to learn how to figure something out - beyond pulling up the calculator on the computer - then there's no reason not to show her, but I wouldn't start there unless I had a child who really liked that sort of thing (mine don't!).
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
With peace, love and kindness,
Amy Lemmon
amylemmon@...
Blog: Six Flower Mom
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:13 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: What do you do when your child doubts herself?
Amy Lemmon <amylemmon@...> wrote:
>o when they have been faced with questions like "do you know what 12 +12 is? Even if they can not rattle off the answer, my question to your daughter is "do you know how to figure it out?" because that is indeed what is important! And if she does not know, then use it as a teaching moment!****************
I'd ask first... actually I wouldn't even start with "do you know how to figure it out?" I'd start by trying to get a sense of why my kid was telling me. Maybe she'd be looking for commiseration or reassurance that the information is unimportant. Maybe she's like to memorize some schooly facts to relate - or like someone else suggested, Other kinds of facts which are interesting and sound "brainy". Maybe she'd like a snappy comeback like "who cares! that's what calculators are for! Do you know how to make minecraft mods? That would be useful." If she Wanted to learn how to figure something out - beyond pulling up the calculator on the computer - then there's no reason not to show her, but I wouldn't start there unless I had a child who really liked that sort of thing (mine don't!).
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Other unschooled kids have had similar moments. It may help for her to know that. It isn't in the least bit an isolated experience. She isn't the only one who doesn't know how to answer those sorts of questions. I'm looking for a couple of stories that have Holly in them, but I found this. I found how children who aren't learning how to answer questions on a test are seeing lots of possibilities: http://sandradodd.com/betteranswers%c2%a0and this one: http://sandradodd.com/testing/teens. Oh, this has some of those stories: http://sandradodd.com/timestables, stories of kids being tested by kids and responding without a sense of their own lack, or, one at least. It's in Sandra's story:
"Jody Hegener once told me a tale of having been challenged by kids from a Waldorf school who waited until they had an eleven or twelve year old Jody headed out on horseback at a ranch with them to ask the big question: "Do you know your times tables?"
"Jody told them she didn't know if she did or not, since she didn't know what "times tables" meant.
"Ooh, they had her good. But they told her what it was that she knew so little about, and they demonstrated, zipping on up to the times TWELVE they knew (way better than the nine or ten limit of public schools).
"So Jody was up with them and getting the pattern on the elevens and twelves, and said "What about 13?"
"They didn't have to know 13. It wasn't so fun anymore. Jody told me she was multiplying by 14 when they finally got her to stop. I imagine she was thinking of how very easy fifteens would be.
"But "times fifteen" won't be on the test."
Maybe those stories will help her see how much these other kids need to know that there is value in their going to school. That knowing what 12+12 equals has made all their school days better than all her days of not going to school. You could talk about how they might really envy her. They might need to know that the suffering that they go through by going to school is only validated if they can see that they are somehow superior to her. Or maybe, it isn't even that complicated. Maybe it is simply that school has shown them how important it is to be better than everyone else and they are working to figure out how they can maintain that superiority.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Tina M <tmcadams81670@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2012, 8:51
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] What do you do when your child doubts herself?
Greetings fellow travelers!
My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
Tina
in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Jody Hegener once told me a tale of having been challenged by kids from a Waldorf school who waited until they had an eleven or twelve year old Jody headed out on horseback at a ranch with them to ask the big question: "Do you know your times tables?"
"Jody told them she didn't know if she did or not, since she didn't know what "times tables" meant.
"Ooh, they had her good. But they told her what it was that she knew so little about, and they demonstrated, zipping on up to the times TWELVE they knew (way better than the nine or ten limit of public schools).
"So Jody was up with them and getting the pattern on the elevens and twelves, and said "What about 13?"
"They didn't have to know 13. It wasn't so fun anymore. Jody told me she was multiplying by 14 when they finally got her to stop. I imagine she was thinking of how very easy fifteens would be.
"But "times fifteen" won't be on the test."
Maybe those stories will help her see how much these other kids need to know that there is value in their going to school. That knowing what 12+12 equals has made all their school days better than all her days of not going to school. You could talk about how they might really envy her. They might need to know that the suffering that they go through by going to school is only validated if they can see that they are somehow superior to her. Or maybe, it isn't even that complicated. Maybe it is simply that school has shown them how important it is to be better than everyone else and they are working to figure out how they can maintain that superiority.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Tina M <tmcadams81670@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2012, 8:51
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] What do you do when your child doubts herself?
Greetings fellow travelers!
My DD had a conversation with a schooled child(ren) today while at gymnastics. One question lead to another and other children asking her "what's 12+12" (and other facts, too)? DD is almost 12. DD asked me if she was smart and if she was smart why can't she recite 'facts.' The girls were very negative towards her and told her that she needed to be in school for 8 hours a day and that basically she is stupid b/c she is homeschooled/unschooled. She is in gymnastics for 12 hours a week - the mean girls are always going to be there(though we are moving soon). what do I do? I have asked her gently what she would like to do, but she's not ready to talk about it. Thank you in advance! Everyone is always so supportive and I am always grateful. Thank you!
Tina
in South Florida soon to be Salem, OR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
For that matter, school kids have those experiences when they change schools - maybe less now, in the US, with more standardization in the public schools, but kids go from public to private and back, plus magnet and charter schools. And even kids within a single school have moments like that - the main difference is that school kids learn tactics to deflect questions they can't answer. I've heard school kids say "I know, but I'm not going to tell you" and "you're not the teacher" or even turn around and throw insults like "you're ugly".
And some kids are actively told learning these kinds of facts is part of being smart. "Why do I have to go to school?" "To be smart, to learn stuff - do you want to be a big dummy?"
---Meredith
>***************
> Other unschooled kids have had similar moments. It may help for her to know that. It isn't in the least bit an isolated experience.
For that matter, school kids have those experiences when they change schools - maybe less now, in the US, with more standardization in the public schools, but kids go from public to private and back, plus magnet and charter schools. And even kids within a single school have moments like that - the main difference is that school kids learn tactics to deflect questions they can't answer. I've heard school kids say "I know, but I'm not going to tell you" and "you're not the teacher" or even turn around and throw insults like "you're ugly".
> Maybe those stories will help her see how much these other kids need to know that there is value in their going to school.*******************
And some kids are actively told learning these kinds of facts is part of being smart. "Why do I have to go to school?" "To be smart, to learn stuff - do you want to be a big dummy?"
---Meredith