Marieke Hensel

Hi,
I am very new to unschooling, as we have just decided not to return after
the summer. So I am still working on how unschooling works for our family,
although I have read a lot about it.

I have 3 boys (7yo, 8yo and 10yo) and my 8yo has speech issues. At school
he had an IEP to work on using his muscles more. Now I am wondering what
will happen with that. Do I still have right to have the IEP for my son?
And how does that work? Would the school district provide that? I am in
california, and it might be specific to my school district, but I hope
there is maybe someone on this list that might know?

On a broader note, is speech development something you can let go of and
trust the child that it will develop by itself? Its mainly muscle
development in his tongue what they are working on with the speech
therapist.

I love to hear from you on this.

Thanks so very much!
Marieke
--
Marieke Hensel
http://twitter.com/hensel

We take your name to fame
1-877-747-FAME

Generate profits by rewarding your loyal customers and attracting new ones:
http://www.brandingpersonality.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

iris777888

According to this page http://www.hsc.org/snpulling.php in California if you pull your kids from school they are not required to continue providing services to your child. The good news is that the page says having an IEP does not mean that you can't pull them out. In some states they make it very difficult for kids with an IEP to withdraw.

As for your question about long-term prognosis with speech, whoever diagnosed the problem originally should be able to tell you if the cause is something that will resolve on its own in time, or not. For instance, if it's an issue of apraxia or something else physically wrong, that would be different from a phonological weakness that is not caused by something physical. Immature articulation can resolve through time as the kid picks up on the difference in what is being said/what they say and self corrects. Also, once they can read it can sometimes help because they see a difference between what they are saying and how a word is spelled. From what I hear from other parents with speech issues, not all speech therapists do a good job telling the difference and will have your kid do mouth exercises (blowing bubbles and stuff like that) that won't really help.

Heather

--- In [email protected], Marieke Hensel <marieke@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am very new to unschooling, as we have just decided not to return after
> the summer. So I am still working on how unschooling works for our family,
> although I have read a lot about it.
>
> I have 3 boys (7yo, 8yo and 10yo) and my 8yo has speech issues. At school
> he had an IEP to work on using his muscles more. Now I am wondering what
> will happen with that. Do I still have right to have the IEP for my son?
> And how does that work? Would the school district provide that? I am in
> california, and it might be specific to my school district, but I hope
> there is maybe someone on this list that might know?
>
> On a broader note, is speech development something you can let go of and
> trust the child that it will develop by itself? Its mainly muscle
> development in his tongue what they are working on with the speech
> therapist.
>
> I love to hear from you on this.
>
> Thanks so very much!
> Marieke
> --
> Marieke Hensel
> http://twitter.com/hensel
>
> We take your name to fame
> 1-877-747-FAME
>
> Generate profits by rewarding your loyal customers and attracting new ones:
> http://www.brandingpersonality.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Meredith

Marieke Hensel <marieke@...> wrote:
>>Its mainly muscle
> development in his tongue what they are working on with the speech
> therapist.

If it's developmental then whatever work they're doing won't help - and an honest speech therapist will tell you that if you ask. They go through the motions because parents and teachers want them to be "working on the problem" but developmental issues are developmental - based on an internal timetable.

>> On a broader note, is speech development something you can let go of and
> trust the child that it will develop by itself?

I'm going to assume you mean something other than real development for a moment and instead are really asking "is it possible for kids to voluntarily learn to do things which are difficult and unpleasant??" One of the beauties of unschooling is getting to watch kids do exactly that. If he can hear his own speech, he knows it's not like that of others - which may or may not be an issue for him, personally right now. It may be a few years before it's important to him, especially if he's burnt out on speech therapy (one of the dangers of any kind of teaching is student burnout), but people Like to sound like the other people around them. It's why some adults will actively choose to change accents when they move. People like to be understood and to fit in.

If you're asking if there's a kind of "magic window" for speech development, no, there isn't. The whole theory of "critical periods" has been pared down to events before birth and in infancy. There is no validity behind the increasing emphasis that children need learn things as early as possible. If anything, there's increasing evidence that it's better to wait and learn specific things later, when kids (or adults for that matter) have reasons to do so.

---Meredith

Marieke Hensel

On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Meredith <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:

> Marieke Hensel <marieke@...> wrote:
> >>Its mainly muscle
> > development in his tongue what they are working on with the speech
> > therapist.
>
> If it's developmental then whatever work they're doing won't help - and an
> honest speech therapist will tell you that if you ask. They go through the
> motions because parents and teachers want them to be "working on the
> problem" but developmental issues are developmental - based on an internal
> timetable.
>
> >> On a broader note, is speech development something you can let go of and
> > trust the child that it will develop by itself?
>
> I'm going to assume you mean something other than real development for a
> moment and instead are really asking "is it possible for kids to
> voluntarily learn to do things which are difficult and unpleasant??" One of
> the beauties of unschooling is getting to watch kids do exactly that.


Thank you so much Meredith! It is a brave step to take when going
unschooling. And I definitely am worried that my son doesn't care about his
speech enough to practice his muscles. But I will work on trusting that
process. :-)

:-)
Marieke



> If he can hear his own speech, he knows it's not like that of others -
> which may or may not be an issue for him, personally right now. It may be a
> few years before it's important to him, especially if he's burnt out on
> speech therapy (one of the dangers of any kind of teaching is student
> burnout), but people Like to sound like the other people around them. It's
> why some adults will actively choose to change accents when they move.
> People like to be understood and to fit in.
>
> If you're asking if there's a kind of "magic window" for speech
> development, no, there isn't. The whole theory of "critical periods" has
> been pared down to events before birth and in infancy. There is no validity
> behind the increasing emphasis that children need learn things as early as
> possible. If anything, there's increasing evidence that it's better to wait
> and learn specific things later, when kids (or adults for that matter) have
> reasons to do so.
>
> ---Meredith
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Aug 28, 2012, at 7:47 PM, Marieke Hensel wrote:

> And I definitely am worried that my son doesn't care about his
> speech enough to practice his muscles. But I will work on trusting that
> process. :-)


What he will do won't look like caring and then practicing. What it will look like is a need or desire to be understood. And then effort put in each time to be understood. His muscles will be exercised as a side effect of speaking more.

Rather than focusing on something he doesn't want to do, make it as easy as possible for him to speak. Be patient when he speaks. Give him your full, unrushed attention. If you haven't understood something, let him know the part you didn't understand, just as you would to a friend. Not to correct him but to give him information so he can meet his need to communicate better. If you do understand him, but no one else would, don't worry. If he's been making progress over the years, even if he's not on a "normal" schedule, it will work itself out with time.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

heat11396

My son is 4.5 and has a severe speech disorder. I was taking him to a specialty care facility out of our local children's hospital 2x a week (out of pocket since our ins policy doesn't cover speech). The speech language pathologist recommended he get evaluated by the school system to qualify for additional treatment (at no cost). It was a long process but he does qualify. With that qualification came their recommendation for 3hrs 4 days a week to be in a special Ed speech prek room on a school campus, yikes! Because if his severity, his frustration with not being understood and financial resins we tried it. Today was his last day.... After 2 weeks he now uses the terms "doing it right" and tells me how he has to try and try again because he can't "say it right".... I now have a lot to undo.

I don't know your free options out there or what you can apply for but in FL every child has access to the same special needs care. I can choose to take him for 30 minute sessions and sit with him rather than the classroom setting. I also applied for a speech treatment grant (there are hundreds online) so that I pay only $25 a visit to continue with the Children's Hospital speech pathology facility that he was going to until 2 weeks ago. This will help. I was told by the children's hospital that his speech will not just correct itself when it is a severe disorder such as my sons. If it was simply a few delayed sounds, then yes, but the things my son is doing needs intervention to improve.

I would really research what you have available to you. Grants are a great option too as there are many great people to consider for the help :-)

Heather

Meredith

"heat11396" <heat11396@...> wrote:
>I was told by the children's hospital that his speech will not just correct itself when it is a severe disorder such as my sons. If it was simply a few delayed sounds, then yes, but the things my son is doing needs intervention to improve.
***************

There's a big difference between a person needing help and support and "needing intervention" - and for the most part the people who are paid to provide the intervention don't know that, they rarely if ever See people who find other sources of help and support. They can only compare what they do to people who get little to no help.

That's not to say unschooling parents should never seek out advice or help from professionals - sometimes it can be really valuable, either in terms of parents learning how to be a good resource for kids, or in terms of more direct assistance.

>> With that qualification came their recommendation for 3hrs 4 days a week to be in a special Ed speech prek room
**************

Keep in mind that Their goal is to get him mainstreamed into school - they won't see "what's best for him" in any other terms than those. To educational professionals what's Best for a child is early intervention to facilitate a better chance of success in school. Period. Home/unschooling doesn't enter their equation at all.

It seems unrealistic to expect a 4yo to do nothing but "work on language production" for 3hrs a day - and I'll bet that's not what they're doing the whole time. Some of what they'll be doing is to adapt him to a school environment - that's what preschool programs are for, to get kids ready for school. To them, it looks necessary because if kids know what to expect in school, it will make communication easier even if they don't make progress otherwise.

That's not to say there's nothing to be learned from that kind of environment, or that you won't be able to unschool later on. It's not unschooling, though - it's definitely school. Sometimes parents find it easier to have a kid with special needs in school or something like it, especially if that child has needs parents can't meet very well at home (and maybe have other kids which limit the amount of time and energy they can spend) - although there are unschooling families with special needs kids at home. It's a matter of what's possible given the family resources.

---Meredith

heat11396

Thanks :-) I need all the support I can get, as this has really been very emotional!

Yes, I totally agree that the school program is entirely on a school schedule for improvement. It was blatant (and in writing) that THEIR goal was to have him 80% intelligible by the end of this school year (aka when he would become Kindergarten age). I heard the PreK speech teacher telling another family that this PreK program will have her child not needing to take part in speech by K. This was never my goal, we don't run our lives on timelines, age, or school labeled grade deadlines.... I initially put up my walls and said this wasn't for us. BUT, and it's a big BUT, I do feel as though his speech is affecting him, his social interactions etc and I do not want it to affect his confidence and self. I also don't want his treatment to draw out those feelings either, hence the reason he isn't going back to the PreK room. He is now referring to his sessions as his need to 'get it right'. He is to the point that he is getting frustrated and feels bad when he tries and tries and others just can't understand him. He uses complete and complex sentences and words, his intelligence isn't a factor, which is why he gets so upset.

I do have the time and energy, even with other kids at home, but I question my ability in the specific area and feel like he should be afforded the expertise of someone that can help with his specific speech issues. I could buy the resources and read up on it, but more time would pass etc. I am honestly looking for direction and advice as to this ordeal.... I feel like he will go back to the one speech pathologist 2x a week at our expense but I'd LOVE other suggestions, support and maybe even pointers. I'm in Tampa Bay area of FL. I just want to help him, but avoid all the potential baggage that could come with it :-)

Thanks to anyone that can offer advise :-)

Heather

--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "heat11396" <heat11396@> wrote:
> >I was told by the children's hospital that his speech will not just correct itself when it is a severe disorder such as my sons. If it was simply a few delayed sounds, then yes, but the things my son is doing needs intervention to improve.
> ***************
>
> There's a big difference between a person needing help and support and "needing intervention" - and for the most part the people who are paid to provide the intervention don't know that, they rarely if ever See people who find other sources of help and support. They can only compare what they do to people who get little to no help.
>
> That's not to say unschooling parents should never seek out advice or help from professionals - sometimes it can be really valuable, either in terms of parents learning how to be a good resource for kids, or in terms of more direct assistance.
>
> >> With that qualification came their recommendation for 3hrs 4 days a week to be in a special Ed speech prek room
> **************
>
> Keep in mind that Their goal is to get him mainstreamed into school - they won't see "what's best for him" in any other terms than those. To educational professionals what's Best for a child is early intervention to facilitate a better chance of success in school. Period. Home/unschooling doesn't enter their equation at all.
>
> It seems unrealistic to expect a 4yo to do nothing but "work on language production" for 3hrs a day - and I'll bet that's not what they're doing the whole time. Some of what they'll be doing is to adapt him to a school environment - that's what preschool programs are for, to get kids ready for school. To them, it looks necessary because if kids know what to expect in school, it will make communication easier even if they don't make progress otherwise.
>
> That's not to say there's nothing to be learned from that kind of environment, or that you won't be able to unschool later on. It's not unschooling, though - it's definitely school. Sometimes parents find it easier to have a kid with special needs in school or something like it, especially if that child has needs parents can't meet very well at home (and maybe have other kids which limit the amount of time and energy they can spend) - although there are unschooling families with special needs kids at home. It's a matter of what's possible given the family resources.
>
> ---Meredith
>

Kelly Lovejoy

Heather, are you coming to the unschooling conference near Tampa in October?

Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
"Childhood is not a dress rehearsal"

On Sep 2, 2012, at 3:51 PM, "heat11396" <heat11396@...> wrote:

> Thanks :-) I need all the support I can get, as this has really been very emotional!
>
> Yes, I totally agree that the school program is entirely on a school schedule for improvement. It was blatant (and in writing) that THEIR goal was to have him 80% intelligible by the end of this school year (aka when he would become Kindergarten age). I heard the PreK speech teacher telling another family that this PreK program will have her child not needing to take part in speech by K. This was never my goal, we don't run our lives on timelines, age, or school labeled grade deadlines.... I initially put up my walls and said this wasn't for us. BUT, and it's a big BUT, I do feel as though his speech is affecting him, his social interactions etc and I do not want it to affect his confidence and self. I also don't want his treatment to draw out those feelings either, hence the reason he isn't going back to the PreK room. He is now referring to his sessions as his need to 'get it right'. He is to the point that he is getting frustrated and feels bad when he tries and tries and
> others just can't understand him. He uses complete and complex sentences and words, his intelligence isn't a factor, which is why he gets so upset.
>
> I do have the time and energy, even with other kids at home, but I question my ability in the specific area and feel like he should be afforded the expertise of someone that can help with his specific speech issues. I could buy the resources and read up on it, but more time would pass etc. I am honestly looking for direction and advice as to this ordeal.... I feel like he will go back to the one speech pathologist 2x a week at our expense but I'd LOVE other suggestions, support and maybe even pointers. I'm in Tampa Bay area of FL. I just want to help him, but avoid all the potential baggage that could come with it :-)
>
> Thanks to anyone that can offer advise :-)
>
> Heather
>
> --- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>>
>> "heat11396" <heat11396@> wrote:
>>> I was told by the children's hospital that his speech will not just correct itself when it is a severe disorder such as my sons. If it was simply a few delayed sounds, then yes, but the things my son is doing needs intervention to improve.
>> ***************
>>
>> There's a big difference between a person needing help and support and "needing intervention" - and for the most part the people who are paid to provide the intervention don't know that, they rarely if ever See people who find other sources of help and support. They can only compare what they do to people who get little to no help.
>>
>> That's not to say unschooling parents should never seek out advice or help from professionals - sometimes it can be really valuable, either in terms of parents learning how to be a good resource for kids, or in terms of more direct assistance.
>>
>>>> With that qualification came their recommendation for 3hrs 4 days a week to be in a special Ed speech prek room
>> **************
>>
>> Keep in mind that Their goal is to get him mainstreamed into school - they won't see "what's best for him" in any other terms than those. To educational professionals what's Best for a child is early intervention to facilitate a better chance of success in school. Period. Home/unschooling doesn't enter their equation at all.
>>
>> It seems unrealistic to expect a 4yo to do nothing but "work on language production" for 3hrs a day - and I'll bet that's not what they're doing the whole time. Some of what they'll be doing is to adapt him to a school environment - that's what preschool programs are for, to get kids ready for school. To them, it looks necessary because if kids know what to expect in school, it will make communication easier even if they don't make progress otherwise.
>>
>> That's not to say there's nothing to be learned from that kind of environment, or that you won't be able to unschool later on. It's not unschooling, though - it's definitely school. Sometimes parents find it easier to have a kid with special needs in school or something like it, especially if that child has needs parents can't meet very well at home (and maybe have other kids which limit the amount of time and energy they can spend) - although there are unschooling families with special needs kids at home. It's a matter of what's possible given the family resources.
>>
>> ---Meredith
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Meredith

"heat11396" <heat11396@...> wrote:
>He is to the point that he is getting frustrated and feels bad when he tries and tries and others just can't understand him. He uses complete and complex sentences and words, his intelligence isn't a factor, which is why he gets so upset.
***************

It's frustrating to be unable to communicate! Be gentle and sympathetic to his struggle - keeping in mind that it not yet be possible for him to "get it right" no matter how hard her tries. He's only 4 - some kids are in speech therapy for years because they are not developmentally ready to do what the therapist is trying to teach them.

If you can get an evaluation from an independent speech pathologist, that may be helpful in terms of finding out what you can do at home - and what sorts of issues are most likely to resolve over time.

>>I could buy the resources and read up on it, but more time would pass etc.

Don't let "time" be a leash on your efforts - you do more damage by pushing therapy than you will by waiting a few weeks or months, especially if he's not developmentally ready for the "work" they're throwing at him.

---Meredith

heat11396

Kelly - I'm looking into it! I hope we are able to attend :-)

Meredith - Thank you so much. I suppose I am putting time restrictions on myself and shouldn't be. I feel like I can do most of what is practiced in his sessions with the All Childrens Hosp person, yet as the focus changes I would need direction. Maybe I could have him go 1x a week where I sit in and then I replicate at home for the rest of the week (not in a sit down session, but just casually throughout the week). He likes going and the All Childrens person is very good IMO. The PreK class had a specific agenda and although they did say that they work with each child individually (there was only 1 other boy in there) it still appeared very structured and set. The teacher had been a little short with people when she couldn't understand them too, once with a 3 yr old and once with a Spanish speaking family. Her reaction/response didn't set well with me.

Who else would you recommend he be evaluated by? I have had him to the local childrens hospital for a full eval and have been in thereapy there since Feb. He also had another eval by the school system in May. Both evals were different but showed similar results. Both were not concerned with sounds and speech that isn't typical of a 4 yr old. They would tell me that they wouldn't be working on anything that typically comes later. Understandably, some that they are working on may come naturally for him later but some are very delayed, which is causing the frustration. I still stress over how to help him or to back off.....

Our plan is to not send him back to the PreK tomorrow. I hope I am making the right decision for him :-)

Heather

Thanks again for the helpful advice.... :-)

Marina DeLuca-Howard

My nine year old enunciates really well.
But a consult with a speech consultant when he was four led to a
diagnosis. He had a lisp at 4, which disappeared by six. We talked to
him, he talked back, singing, playing...

Marina

On 3 September 2012 10:47, heat11396 <heat11396@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Kelly - I'm looking into it! I hope we are able to attend :-)
>
> Meredith - Thank you so much. I suppose I am putting time restrictions on
> myself and shouldn't be. I feel like I can do most of what is practiced in
> his sessions with the All Childrens Hosp person, yet as the focus changes I
> would need direction. Maybe I could have him go 1x a week where I sit in
> and then I replicate at home for the rest of the week (not in a sit down
> session, but just casually throughout the week). He likes going and the All
> Childrens person is very good IMO. The PreK class had a specific agenda and
> although they did say that they work with each child individually (there
> was only 1 other boy in there) it still appeared very structured and set.
> The teacher had been a little short with people when she couldn't
> understand them too, once with a 3 yr old and once with a Spanish speaking
> family. Her reaction/response didn't set well with me.
>
> Who else would you recommend he be evaluated by? I have had him to the
> local childrens hospital for a full eval and have been in thereapy there
> since Feb. He also had another eval by the school system in May. Both evals
> were different but showed similar results. Both were not concerned with
> sounds and speech that isn't typical of a 4 yr old. They would tell me that
> they wouldn't be working on anything that typically comes later.
> Understandably, some that they are working on may come naturally for him
> later but some are very delayed, which is causing the frustration. I still
> stress over how to help him or to back off.....
>
> Our plan is to not send him back to the PreK tomorrow. I hope I am making
> the right decision for him :-)
>
> Heather
>
> Thanks again for the helpful advice.... :-)
>
>



--

*Quis hic locus, quae regio, quae mundi plaga?*

What seas what shores what grey rocks and what islands

What water lapping the bow

And scent of pine and the woodthrush singing through the fog

What images return


<http://goog_2075824263>

http://surrendertorandomobfuscation.blogspot.ca/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<<Kelly - I'm looking into it! I hope we are able to attend :-)>>>>


Hi Heather ~ I will be speaking at the Un in the Sun Conference and would be happy to talk with you about your son's speech and maybe help brainstorm some ideas if you come to the conference. I'm a Speech Therapist and have worked with children in both pre-k programs as well a private practice for many years, however, my philosophy for therapy intervention comes more from that of a long time unschooling parent. I'd be happy to discuss this more off- list if you'd like to e-mail me.


Gail Higgins







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]