Brand New & dipping my toe into the water
Melissa J
Hello everyone :-) I'm happy to be here! It's such a blessing to have the internet so we can all quickly find support in our new ventures.
I'd like to share a bit about myself and our family before diving in with questions. I hope you'll all be patient with me, this might be looooong as I enjoy talking. :-)
Okay.... so I am a stay-at-home mother who has been married to her best friend for almost 10 years, and I have two children (DD 8 & DS 6) and two cats. I am an artist and I run a business from my home as well.
When our daughter was almost 6, I had a lot of anxiety about our daughter attending public school. I remembered what it did to me (my best years in schooling were when I had a year of unstructured private schooling when I was about 15) - and seeing how similar my daughter was to me, I didn't want to throw her into 'the world' and have the same things happen to her. My husband actually came to me one day with the thought of homeschooling. I felt a wave of peace come over me. We prayed about it, and it has just become a part of our life since then.
Initially, when I sat down with ideas for what I wanted to do with my children, I *ironically* wrote down a lot of ideas that could have been considered unschooling methods. But when I did research and realized there were homeschooling laws, state standards, etc. that sort of flew out the window. I can honestly say that going that route broke my spirit & excitement for homeschooling.
Two years and hundreds of dollars later, I have skimmed through different methods of homeschooling - classic, textbook, worksheets, Charlotte Mason, etc. and even though each had its benefits, I continue to fall away from each of them. Weeks would go by without curriculum and just 'doing nothing', and I'd try again - two weeks later, we'd stop again for a month or more. I fall away more quickly each time.
Over the past week I have been evaluating our lives here at home in what 'should' be 'homeschooling' time. I have had long stretches of time where I felt like we 'weren't doing anything' and it got me down. I felt like a failure. After my father passed away about 2 years ago, it grew increasingly more difficult. BUT - in prayer and searching on the internet for help in homeschooling today, I grew to realize something. The times that we had relaxed and just enjoyed life, where I shared things I had learned, took the kids to interesting places, showed them the beauty of the world outside our door, played with our cats, walked in the leaves, crafting & drawing, or curled up and enjoyed a movie - THOSE were the moments that stuck with me the hardest. Those were the times I kept returning to when I would fall away from 'curriculum'. I had been in an unschooling mode all along, all I needed to do was re-direct myself!
I have to admit, I am scared. I have been reading Sandra Dodd's articles & watching some of her videos on Youtube like crazy today. It is helping immensely. But of course, how I was raised with an uptight mother & a 'spotless' house (heaven knows mine is nowhere NEAR close to that) and public school stripping away a lot of my individuality... well, I have a lot to unlearn. But I look at my life and realize that my TRUE love for learning came from my own delight-driven education. I taught myself most of what I still know today by delving into things that interested me. THOSE are the learning experiences that stick!
I don't know if anyone here is familiar with Star Wars, but it's as Yoda says (and this has always piqued my interest ever since I was young)... 'You must unlearn what you have learned.' I know I cannot fill a cup that is already full of standardization & the need to 'fit in'. I want to look at the world with childlike curiosity and soak it all up like a sponge with my children.
I would love all the support I can get. I am worried about math, about state standards (I live in Washington), and how to let GO of WORRYING about those things, lol. :-) I am just BARELY getting to know Unschooling. I had always heard rumors about it, and of course all of them were harsh and negative. But now that I read about it, I am so excited. It's what I originally wanted for my children, I just never realized it.
Thank you all for listening. See? I can write a novel!
(hugs) Melissa
I'd like to share a bit about myself and our family before diving in with questions. I hope you'll all be patient with me, this might be looooong as I enjoy talking. :-)
Okay.... so I am a stay-at-home mother who has been married to her best friend for almost 10 years, and I have two children (DD 8 & DS 6) and two cats. I am an artist and I run a business from my home as well.
When our daughter was almost 6, I had a lot of anxiety about our daughter attending public school. I remembered what it did to me (my best years in schooling were when I had a year of unstructured private schooling when I was about 15) - and seeing how similar my daughter was to me, I didn't want to throw her into 'the world' and have the same things happen to her. My husband actually came to me one day with the thought of homeschooling. I felt a wave of peace come over me. We prayed about it, and it has just become a part of our life since then.
Initially, when I sat down with ideas for what I wanted to do with my children, I *ironically* wrote down a lot of ideas that could have been considered unschooling methods. But when I did research and realized there were homeschooling laws, state standards, etc. that sort of flew out the window. I can honestly say that going that route broke my spirit & excitement for homeschooling.
Two years and hundreds of dollars later, I have skimmed through different methods of homeschooling - classic, textbook, worksheets, Charlotte Mason, etc. and even though each had its benefits, I continue to fall away from each of them. Weeks would go by without curriculum and just 'doing nothing', and I'd try again - two weeks later, we'd stop again for a month or more. I fall away more quickly each time.
Over the past week I have been evaluating our lives here at home in what 'should' be 'homeschooling' time. I have had long stretches of time where I felt like we 'weren't doing anything' and it got me down. I felt like a failure. After my father passed away about 2 years ago, it grew increasingly more difficult. BUT - in prayer and searching on the internet for help in homeschooling today, I grew to realize something. The times that we had relaxed and just enjoyed life, where I shared things I had learned, took the kids to interesting places, showed them the beauty of the world outside our door, played with our cats, walked in the leaves, crafting & drawing, or curled up and enjoyed a movie - THOSE were the moments that stuck with me the hardest. Those were the times I kept returning to when I would fall away from 'curriculum'. I had been in an unschooling mode all along, all I needed to do was re-direct myself!
I have to admit, I am scared. I have been reading Sandra Dodd's articles & watching some of her videos on Youtube like crazy today. It is helping immensely. But of course, how I was raised with an uptight mother & a 'spotless' house (heaven knows mine is nowhere NEAR close to that) and public school stripping away a lot of my individuality... well, I have a lot to unlearn. But I look at my life and realize that my TRUE love for learning came from my own delight-driven education. I taught myself most of what I still know today by delving into things that interested me. THOSE are the learning experiences that stick!
I don't know if anyone here is familiar with Star Wars, but it's as Yoda says (and this has always piqued my interest ever since I was young)... 'You must unlearn what you have learned.' I know I cannot fill a cup that is already full of standardization & the need to 'fit in'. I want to look at the world with childlike curiosity and soak it all up like a sponge with my children.
I would love all the support I can get. I am worried about math, about state standards (I live in Washington), and how to let GO of WORRYING about those things, lol. :-) I am just BARELY getting to know Unschooling. I had always heard rumors about it, and of course all of them were harsh and negative. But now that I read about it, I am so excited. It's what I originally wanted for my children, I just never realized it.
Thank you all for listening. See? I can write a novel!
(hugs) Melissa
lindaguitar
--- In [email protected], "Melissa J" <mnjenkins@...> wrote:
I recommended reading articles on the Sudbury Valley School website, earlier. sudval.org . I would also recommend reading the book "Deschooling Society", by Ivan Illich.
http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/DESCHOOLING.pdf
AND I recommend this amazing, very inspirational TED Talk by Sugata Mitra:
http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_the_child_driven_education.html
Linda
>I can't imagine that anyone here is NOT familiar with Star Wars! :-)
> Hello everyone :-) I'm happy to be here! ....
> I don't know if anyone here is familiar with Star Wars, ...
> I would love all the support I can get. I am worried about math,I know some unschoolers in Washington State from another unschool list. Have you looked for a local/state unschooling group? People in WA will be able to tell you how unschoolers there comply with the state requirements. There are unschoolers in every state, and they all manage to comply with the state requirements for homeschoolers.
> about state standards (I live in Washington), and how to let GO of
> WORRYING about those things, lol. :-)
> I am just BARELY getting to know Unschooling. I had always heardIt takes time to "deschool" yourself and to accept the truth that each child can and will learn what s/he needs to know, when s/he is ready to learn it. And to stop placing more value on the "core academic subjects" than on all of the millions of other subjects and skills worth learning. The more you read, and hear from other unschoolers, the more you will be able to feel comfortable letting go of the public school system's brainwashing.
> rumors about it, and of course all of them were harsh and negative.
> But now that I read about it, I am so excited. It's what I
> originally wanted for my children, I just never realized it.
I recommended reading articles on the Sudbury Valley School website, earlier. sudval.org . I would also recommend reading the book "Deschooling Society", by Ivan Illich.
http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/DESCHOOLING.pdf
AND I recommend this amazing, very inspirational TED Talk by Sugata Mitra:
http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_the_child_driven_education.html
Linda
Debra Rossing
>I would love all the support I can get. I am worried about math, about state standards (I live in Washington), and how to let GO of WORRYING about those things, lol. :-) I am just BARELY getting to know Unschooling. I had always heard rumors about it, and of course all of them were harsh and negative. But now that I read about it, I am so excited. It's what I originally wanted for my children, I just never realized it.
The FIRST thing is to take a breath. Then, get to really KNOW the actual laws of the state - what is *mandatory* and what are the repercussions? For example, in some states, you have to do standardized testing BUT no one sees the results unless you are specifically asked to produce them at some point. Otherwise, you just plop them in a folder in a drawer and there they sit until the next required test time, then they get tossed and the new envelope goes in. I've heard some folks don't even bother opening the envelope to look at the results. http://washhomeschool.org/homeschooling/top10faq.html might help - definitely find local homeschoolers/unschoolers to find out the details of it all. If you've been homeschooling you are probably already familiar with the laws. You can also likely google your state and unschooling and probably find some info out there on it already. Bottom line is that it is possible to unschool in every state with minimal impact from the hoops that need to be jumped.
Deb R
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Melissa J
Thanks Deb. Yeah, thankfully I had researched the WA laws quite a bit. I plan on ordering an eval that our daughter can do from home. Due to my husband and I going to public schools, I have my natural fears that I won't 'do enough'. But the more I read, the more I relax.
I think I might look at a scope and sequence to see what kids are expected to know and use that as a base for ideas to help the kids learn different topics. :-)
Again thank you! -Mel
I think I might look at a scope and sequence to see what kids are expected to know and use that as a base for ideas to help the kids learn different topics. :-)
Again thank you! -Mel
Meredith
"Melissa J" <mnjenkins@...> wrote:
It might be better Not to look at any of that for awhile, and spend the time getting to know what your kids enjoy, what they like to learn about naturally. But to do that well, you'll need to broaden your mind a little around the idea of "learning" - you're still thinking in terms of schoolish subjects (natural, at this point) when learning is So Much more than that.
Here's a good place to start reading and thinking about how natural learning, real life learning, is different than school learning:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
And two of my favorite essays on the subject - both "snapshots" of how learning looks for unschoolers:
http://sandradodd.com/puddle
http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents
---Meredith
>> I think I might look at a scope and sequence to see what kids are expected to know and use that as a base for ideas to help the kids learn different topics*****************
It might be better Not to look at any of that for awhile, and spend the time getting to know what your kids enjoy, what they like to learn about naturally. But to do that well, you'll need to broaden your mind a little around the idea of "learning" - you're still thinking in terms of schoolish subjects (natural, at this point) when learning is So Much more than that.
Here's a good place to start reading and thinking about how natural learning, real life learning, is different than school learning:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
And two of my favorite essays on the subject - both "snapshots" of how learning looks for unschoolers:
http://sandradodd.com/puddle
http://sandradodd.com/day/presidents
---Meredith
odiniella
--- In [email protected], "Melissa J" <mnjenkins@...>
wrote:
different topics. :-)
I would gently suggest you not do that yet (or for years). Familiarize
yourself not only with the practice of unschooling but the philosophy.
It really is a whole 'nother paradigm. Get out of the mindset of
categorizing knowledge and information (math, science, history), and get
into the mindset of broader skills, social and intellectual. Social
skills requires social participation. Allow your kids to experience
those things that they naturally gravitate towards. If they like dress
up, bring them to a living history museum. If they like cars, open the
hood of your car and try to learn all the parts together. Social
participation comes naturally in conversations, experiences, even time
alone playing by oneself. Intellectual skills requires learning how to
think critically. When kids aren't spending their day learning specific
information one someone else's schedule they learn to pay attention to
details and develop well-structured thoughts because they experience
cause and effect rather than wait for the lesson to be taught. Again,
this comes naturally throughout the day.
Now, don't do like I did and try and "force" these experiences! Don't
nag your kids to make sure they're thinking critically. Don't harp on
them to speak to strangers. Don't take them on field trips if they
don't want. Let them be kids and when an opportunity comes in to model
for them the kind of skills they'll need in life, they'll pick up on it.
And for goodness sake, if you model something they find to be less
effective than their plan, let them do it their way if it doesn't hurt
them or others. A lot of conventional parenting advice tries to
convince us to "correct" our child when they do something we wouldn't.
Keep your eye out for that because your kids are not you, and they have
their very own idea of what is a good way to respond to any given
situation. Don't coerce them emotionally to "encourage" them to do
things your way. Let them mature as is natural for them.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wrote:
> I think I might look at a scope and sequence to see what kids areexpected to know and use that as a base for ideas to help the kids learn
different topics. :-)
I would gently suggest you not do that yet (or for years). Familiarize
yourself not only with the practice of unschooling but the philosophy.
It really is a whole 'nother paradigm. Get out of the mindset of
categorizing knowledge and information (math, science, history), and get
into the mindset of broader skills, social and intellectual. Social
skills requires social participation. Allow your kids to experience
those things that they naturally gravitate towards. If they like dress
up, bring them to a living history museum. If they like cars, open the
hood of your car and try to learn all the parts together. Social
participation comes naturally in conversations, experiences, even time
alone playing by oneself. Intellectual skills requires learning how to
think critically. When kids aren't spending their day learning specific
information one someone else's schedule they learn to pay attention to
details and develop well-structured thoughts because they experience
cause and effect rather than wait for the lesson to be taught. Again,
this comes naturally throughout the day.
Now, don't do like I did and try and "force" these experiences! Don't
nag your kids to make sure they're thinking critically. Don't harp on
them to speak to strangers. Don't take them on field trips if they
don't want. Let them be kids and when an opportunity comes in to model
for them the kind of skills they'll need in life, they'll pick up on it.
And for goodness sake, if you model something they find to be less
effective than their plan, let them do it their way if it doesn't hurt
them or others. A lot of conventional parenting advice tries to
convince us to "correct" our child when they do something we wouldn't.
Keep your eye out for that because your kids are not you, and they have
their very own idea of what is a good way to respond to any given
situation. Don't coerce them emotionally to "encourage" them to do
things your way. Let them mature as is natural for them.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa J
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I think I worded things incorrectly - I don't mean that I would aim to have them learn this or that by a certain time and be technical about 'they have to know this kind of math' etc. - but use it as a list of fun ideas for things we can learn together, or things I can present, perhaps. I normally only introduce topics that are in-line with something we (or just the kids) are doing. Like if we eat Chinese food, we might talk about China, or pandas, or anything we come up with.
I'm still trying to figure this out, lol - bear with me!
Melissa
I'm still trying to figure this out, lol - bear with me!
Melissa
--- In [email protected], "odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Melissa J" <mnjenkins@>
> wrote:
> > I think I might look at a scope and sequence to see what kids are
> expected to know and use that as a base for ideas to help the kids learn
> different topics. :-)
>
>
>
> I would gently suggest you not do that yet (or for years). Familiarize
> yourself not only with the practice of unschooling but the philosophy.
> It really is a whole 'nother paradigm. Get out of the mindset of
> categorizing knowledge and information (math, science, history), and get
> into the mindset of broader skills, social and intellectual. Social
> skills requires social participation. Allow your kids to experience
> those things that they naturally gravitate towards. If they like dress
> up, bring them to a living history museum. If they like cars, open the
> hood of your car and try to learn all the parts together.
Anita
Hi Melissa,
I live in New Zealand so can't comment on state standards. However I do want
to share how well my 10 year old son is doing after 18 months of
unschooling.
Louis had developmental delays and was really struggling at school. Now he's
blossoming. He has lots of interests , particularly geography and history.
He knows the names of all the US presidents, is learning about communism
(told me I was the bourgeoisie the other day, he's right!) and right now is
learning German (as a result of studying communism)It's wonderful to see
him excelling at things he's interested in. His confidence has been boosted
enormously. So much more important than learning curriculum for the sake of
it!
Anita
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I live in New Zealand so can't comment on state standards. However I do want
to share how well my 10 year old son is doing after 18 months of
unschooling.
Louis had developmental delays and was really struggling at school. Now he's
blossoming. He has lots of interests , particularly geography and history.
He knows the names of all the US presidents, is learning about communism
(told me I was the bourgeoisie the other day, he's right!) and right now is
learning German (as a result of studying communism)It's wonderful to see
him excelling at things he's interested in. His confidence has been boosted
enormously. So much more important than learning curriculum for the sake of
it!
Anita
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"Melissa J" <mnjenkins@...> wrote:
It can be useful to have an idea book, or other way to brighten up a dull day, or even just have stockpile of interesting things/resources to share. It's good to keep your life (and that of your kids) fresh and expanding!
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Especially if you're coming from a background in education or home education, though, it could actually be an important part of your own deschooling to step away from thinking about learning or learning opportunities. When the world is fresh and exciting, kids Are learning, and learning along with them is often as simple as spending time in their company, watching and listening as they discover - or invent! - the world.
If your goal is for natural learning to blossom, it will help to step back from the idea of "introducing topics" and consider how you would talk with a friend. Friends talk and share information, tidbits, insights, and views on a regular basis, without an underlying agenda (most of the time) of teaching each other anything.
---Meredith
> I don't mean that I would aim to have them learn this or that by a certain time and be technical about 'they have to know this kind of math' etc. - but use it as a list of fun ideas for things we can learn together***************
It can be useful to have an idea book, or other way to brighten up a dull day, or even just have stockpile of interesting things/resources to share. It's good to keep your life (and that of your kids) fresh and expanding!
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Especially if you're coming from a background in education or home education, though, it could actually be an important part of your own deschooling to step away from thinking about learning or learning opportunities. When the world is fresh and exciting, kids Are learning, and learning along with them is often as simple as spending time in their company, watching and listening as they discover - or invent! - the world.
>> I normally only introduce topics that are in-line with something we (or just the kids) are doing. Like if we eat Chinese food, we might talk about China, or pandas, or anything we come up with.****************
If your goal is for natural learning to blossom, it will help to step back from the idea of "introducing topics" and consider how you would talk with a friend. Friends talk and share information, tidbits, insights, and views on a regular basis, without an underlying agenda (most of the time) of teaching each other anything.
> I'm still trying to figure this out, lol - bear with me!I know ;) I'm using your posts as a chance to bring up tidbits on what helps learning to flow naturally. It may all be too much to process at once, but that's okay.
---Meredith
[email protected]
Picture having dinner at the local Chinese restaurant with your friend. Now think about what you do with your kids.
See the difference?
One is a natural, enjoyable evening of good food and a good relationship. The other is a pretense looking for "teachable moments."
See how much you can stretch yourself, deschool yourself, to move away from one to the other. It does take a while. Enjoy! :)
Nance
Like if we eat Chinese food, we might talk about China, or pandas, or anything we come up with.
I'm still trying to figure this out, lol - bear with me!
Melissa
See the difference?
One is a natural, enjoyable evening of good food and a good relationship. The other is a pretense looking for "teachable moments."
See how much you can stretch yourself, deschool yourself, to move away from one to the other. It does take a while. Enjoy! :)
Nance
Like if we eat Chinese food, we might talk about China, or pandas, or anything we come up with.
I'm still trying to figure this out, lol - bear with me!
Melissa
lindaguitar
--- In [email protected], "Anita" <anita@...> wrote:
Now I feel like I should read something about the history and politics of new Zealand. I do like learning about other countries, but never thought of looking up info about NZ until now.
Linda
>Just curious - why does a kid in New Zealand want to know the names of U.S. presidents?
> .... He knows the names of all the US presidents,
Now I feel like I should read something about the history and politics of new Zealand. I do like learning about other countries, but never thought of looking up info about NZ until now.
Linda