Social growth
Renee Cooper
Hi all,
Hoping to get some insight and suggestions from you all about our current
situation with our 7 yr old daughter Lian. She is very social and outgoing.
Like many little girls, she's also somewhat of a director.I don't really
like the term "bossy", but she does like to direct the play when playing
with other children. She's the oldest, with a 5 yr old brother.
Here's the current situation: next door we have neighbors with girls who
are 6 and 5, as well as their 10 yr old boy cousin who lives with them.
Next door to them are a girl, 8, and her 10 yr old brother. Further down
the street in the other direction is a boy, just turning 6, who is the
oldest of 5 children and a bit of a bully (lots of name-calling, hitting,
etc)
When our daughter plays with the neighbor girls she comes home acting
differently than her usual sweet self: her words are sarcastic and snotty
and rude, lots of eye-rolling and door slamming. She's not like this
normally, and it takes a day or so for her to return to normal afterwards.
Because of this, Ryan (my husband) has banned her from playing with the
neighbors except on the weekends, and only then because it's hard on the
kids to not be included in the neighborhood fun when all the kids are
outside playing and laughing.
When the girls come over here, we can hear them - the younger is emotionally
sensitive and everything hurts her feelings so she is constantly whining,
crying or running out in a huff; the older girl has a bit of a "mean girl"
mentality going on. Pretty much every time they are over I have to
intervene over some exclusionary thing that she's ordained ("boys stink, you
can't play with us" - hurts my sons feelings; "Layla is a monster, she's not
allowed in our club" (Layla is the younger sister), etc). Right now in fact
they just came in to change into swimsuits and I hear that they've kicked
out Layla from their play "because she's a whiner".
We see our daughter taking some of this behavior elsewhere, when she gets
together with unschooling and other family friends, and even with her
brother Neither of us likes it, and we've talked to her about it being
unkind and hurtful. She knows it is, too.
School is out starting next week. That means the neighbors are going to be
out in the yard all the time, and it's going to be hard for my daughter to
be excluded if we say she can't play with them. The other alternative seems
to be that either Ryan or I supervise when they play. The kids don't like
this though - they want to run free around the neighborhood. Or we could
just let the chips fall - we let her know when her behavior is unkind, and
if she treats her friends this way they probably aren't going to be friends
with her anymore. I don't want to see that happen either.
I'm sure we're not the only ones who have had to go through guiding their
children on appropriate social behavior, helping them grow in positive ways.
What can we do to help encourage our daughter to be kind to others besides
continuing to be kind ourselves? Do we ban them from playing with kids who
have negative influence over their behavior? Continue to point it out?
Supervise? Make a plan to spend a lot more time with other unschooling
families so our kids don't feel left out if we don't let them play with the
neighbors?
Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions - this is pretty long and I'm not sure
I've completely captured the scenario so feel free to ask questions. Both
Ryan and I were pretty geeky and shy growing up and so don't have a lot of
positive social experience from our childhoods to draw on.
-Renee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hoping to get some insight and suggestions from you all about our current
situation with our 7 yr old daughter Lian. She is very social and outgoing.
Like many little girls, she's also somewhat of a director.I don't really
like the term "bossy", but she does like to direct the play when playing
with other children. She's the oldest, with a 5 yr old brother.
Here's the current situation: next door we have neighbors with girls who
are 6 and 5, as well as their 10 yr old boy cousin who lives with them.
Next door to them are a girl, 8, and her 10 yr old brother. Further down
the street in the other direction is a boy, just turning 6, who is the
oldest of 5 children and a bit of a bully (lots of name-calling, hitting,
etc)
When our daughter plays with the neighbor girls she comes home acting
differently than her usual sweet self: her words are sarcastic and snotty
and rude, lots of eye-rolling and door slamming. She's not like this
normally, and it takes a day or so for her to return to normal afterwards.
Because of this, Ryan (my husband) has banned her from playing with the
neighbors except on the weekends, and only then because it's hard on the
kids to not be included in the neighborhood fun when all the kids are
outside playing and laughing.
When the girls come over here, we can hear them - the younger is emotionally
sensitive and everything hurts her feelings so she is constantly whining,
crying or running out in a huff; the older girl has a bit of a "mean girl"
mentality going on. Pretty much every time they are over I have to
intervene over some exclusionary thing that she's ordained ("boys stink, you
can't play with us" - hurts my sons feelings; "Layla is a monster, she's not
allowed in our club" (Layla is the younger sister), etc). Right now in fact
they just came in to change into swimsuits and I hear that they've kicked
out Layla from their play "because she's a whiner".
We see our daughter taking some of this behavior elsewhere, when she gets
together with unschooling and other family friends, and even with her
brother Neither of us likes it, and we've talked to her about it being
unkind and hurtful. She knows it is, too.
School is out starting next week. That means the neighbors are going to be
out in the yard all the time, and it's going to be hard for my daughter to
be excluded if we say she can't play with them. The other alternative seems
to be that either Ryan or I supervise when they play. The kids don't like
this though - they want to run free around the neighborhood. Or we could
just let the chips fall - we let her know when her behavior is unkind, and
if she treats her friends this way they probably aren't going to be friends
with her anymore. I don't want to see that happen either.
I'm sure we're not the only ones who have had to go through guiding their
children on appropriate social behavior, helping them grow in positive ways.
What can we do to help encourage our daughter to be kind to others besides
continuing to be kind ourselves? Do we ban them from playing with kids who
have negative influence over their behavior? Continue to point it out?
Supervise? Make a plan to spend a lot more time with other unschooling
families so our kids don't feel left out if we don't let them play with the
neighbors?
Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions - this is pretty long and I'm not sure
I've completely captured the scenario so feel free to ask questions. Both
Ryan and I were pretty geeky and shy growing up and so don't have a lot of
positive social experience from our childhoods to draw on.
-Renee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
Just tRying to get straight your current situation: do all these kids play free outdoors in one pack, is that why you mention them all? Or is it just one set of two girls who worry you? Are they all part of who your daughter bosses (because some are older than she)? Or is it that she does NOT boss them and instead emulates them when you'd rather she WOULD direct them?
And my first reaction to this description was, poor kid! He's only just past five himself and he has FIVE younger siblings?? No wonder he has to fight and claw . . .
And my first reaction to this description was, poor kid! He's only just past five himself and he has FIVE younger siblings?? No wonder he has to fight and claw . . .
--- In [email protected], Renee Cooper <rmilller@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Hoping to get some insight and suggestions from you all about our current
> situation with our 7 yr old daughter Lian. She is very social and outgoing.
> Like many little girls, she's also somewhat of a director.I don't really
> like the term "bossy", but she does like to direct the play when playing
> with other children. She's the oldest, with a 5 yr old brother.
>
>
>
> Here's the current situation: next door we have neighbors with girls who
> are 6 and 5, as well as their 10 yr old boy cousin who lives with them.
> Next door to them are a girl, 8, and her 10 yr old brother. Further down
> the street in the other direction is a boy, just turning 6, who is the
> oldest of 5 children and a bit of a bully (lots of name-calling, hitting,
> etc)
>
>
>
> When our daughter plays with the neighbor girls she comes home acting
> differently than her usual sweet self: her words are sarcastic and snotty
> and rude, lots of eye-rolling and door slamming. She's not like this
> normally, and it takes a day or so for her to return to normal afterwards.
> Because of this, Ryan (my husband) has banned her from playing with the
> neighbors except on the weekends, and only then because it's hard on the
> kids to not be included in the neighborhood fun when all the kids are
> outside playing and laughing.
>
>
>
> When the girls come over here, we can hear them - the younger is emotionally
> sensitive and everything hurts her feelings so she is constantly whining,
> crying or running out in a huff; the older girl has a bit of a "mean girl"
> mentality going on. Pretty much every time they are over I have to
> intervene over some exclusionary thing that she's ordained ("boys stink, you
> can't play with us" - hurts my sons feelings; "Layla is a monster, she's not
> allowed in our club" (Layla is the younger sister), etc). Right now in fact
> they just came in to change into swimsuits and I hear that they've kicked
> out Layla from their play "because she's a whiner".
>
>
>
> We see our daughter taking some of this behavior elsewhere, when she gets
> together with unschooling and other family friends, and even with her
> brother Neither of us likes it, and we've talked to her about it being
> unkind and hurtful. She knows it is, too.
>
>
>
> School is out starting next week. That means the neighbors are going to be
> out in the yard all the time, and it's going to be hard for my daughter to
> be excluded if we say she can't play with them. The other alternative seems
> to be that either Ryan or I supervise when they play. The kids don't like
> this though - they want to run free around the neighborhood. Or we could
> just let the chips fall - we let her know when her behavior is unkind, and
> if she treats her friends this way they probably aren't going to be friends
> with her anymore. I don't want to see that happen either.
>
>
>
> I'm sure we're not the only ones who have had to go through guiding their
> children on appropriate social behavior, helping them grow in positive ways.
> What can we do to help encourage our daughter to be kind to others besides
> continuing to be kind ourselves? Do we ban them from playing with kids who
> have negative influence over their behavior? Continue to point it out?
> Supervise? Make a plan to spend a lot more time with other unschooling
> families so our kids don't feel left out if we don't let them play with the
> neighbors?
>
>
>
> Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions - this is pretty long and I'm not sure
> I've completely captured the scenario so feel free to ask questions. Both
> Ryan and I were pretty geeky and shy growing up and so don't have a lot of
> positive social experience from our childhoods to draw on.
>
>
>
> -Renee
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
JJ
Correction, four younger siblings for a total of five kids in six years, pretty much the max unless there were adoptions which can bring just as much adjustment demand and the same sleep deprivation and strain on resources. I should have said poor mama too. :)
--- In [email protected], "JJ" <jrossedd@...> wrote:
>
>
> And my first reaction to this description was, poor kid! He's only just past five himself and he has FIVE younger siblings?? No wonder he has to fight and claw . . .
> >
Further down
> > the street in the other direction is a boy, just turning 6, who is the
> > oldest of 5 children and a bit of a bully (lots of name-calling, hitting,
> > etc)
> >
Dawn Hall
Depends on what viewpoint the mama has. I have 9 children ages 14 and under
and feel SO blessed. I love and have loved my years of mothering! And our
children don't have to fight and claw or bully. They are best friends with
each other and a delight to be around.
and feel SO blessed. I love and have loved my years of mothering! And our
children don't have to fight and claw or bully. They are best friends with
each other and a delight to be around.
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:33 PM, JJ <jrossedd@...> wrote:
>
>
> Correction, four younger siblings for a total of five kids in six years,
> pretty much the max unless there were adoptions which can bring just as much
> adjustment demand and the same sleep deprivation and strain on resources. I
> should have said poor mama too. :)
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "JJ" <jrossedd@...> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > And my first reaction to this description was, poor kid! He's only just
> past five himself and he has FIVE younger siblings?? No wonder he has to
> fight and claw . . .
>
> --
Love, Dawn
Helpmeet to Aaron
Mommy to Thomas (14), Stephen (14), Naomi Ruth (12), Rebekah (10), Hannah
(8), Miriam (7), Susanna (5), Benjamin (2), and Matthew (8mo)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
Quite so. The neighbor mama and little boy sound like they are without unschooling. :)
> Depends on what viewpoint the mama has. I have 9 children ages 14 and under
> and feel SO blessed. I love and have loved my years of mothering! And our
> children don't have to fight and claw or bully. They are best friends with
> each other and a delight to be around.
>
> >
> > Correction, four younger siblings for a total of five kids in six years,
> > pretty much the max unless there were adoptions which can bring just as much
> > adjustment demand and the same sleep deprivation and strain on resources. I
> > should have said poor mama too. :)
>
plaidpanties666
There are a few different issues going on here at the same time.
---Meredith
>it's going to be hard for my daughter toThere's another option, which is that you work with your kids to generate projects and activities to do with the other kids. Make your home the place where fun things happen so the kids want to be there and there's plenty of things for everyone. That probably won't be something you're up for every day, but its something you can build: hold "parties" once a week to start - movie parties, make-up parties, lego parties, pokemon parties, littlest pets parties... whatever is interesting to the kids. And rather than "supervising" be involved in the fun as much as you possibly can so that you can steer dynamics before they get ugly. It's not a perfect solution, but then again there won't be One perfect solution, you need a set of tools to make things better, not a one-size-fits-all solution.
> be excluded if we say she can't play with them. The other alternative seems
> to be that either Ryan or I supervise when they play. The kids don't like
> this though - they want to run free around the neighborhood. Or we could
> just let the chips fall
> When our daughter plays with the neighbor girls she comes home actingAnother tool is to separate your feelings from her behavior - its not about You, its about her decompressing from a very different environment. Be gentle and easy. Play along if you can - turn on your best tween self and roll with it, but kindly. Show her how you can be ironic and have attitude without being rotten and mean. If you need to draw a line, draw it at rotten and mean, not snotty and rude - be a grownup and have the grace she's momentarily lacking.
> differently than her usual sweet self: her words are sarcastic and snotty
> and rude, lots of eye-rolling and door slamming.
>>Pretty much every time they are over I have toActually, you don't have to do that at all - you can be sensitive to the fact that the girls don't want to play with the brother and youngest sister and do something with Them instead. Make it a special opportunity to connect with your kids so they feel warm and special and wanted *without* foisting them on the girls. That's kinder to All of them - its just as ugly to have someone foisted on you as to be the foistee.
> intervene over some exclusionary thing
> Neither of us likes it, and we've talked to her about it beingShe's caught between a rock and a hard place. She wants connection, but can't get the connection she wants when she's "playing by the rules" and "being nice". Help her change the rules. Rather than run her down when she's unkind, be the kinder one, help her find more options so she has better choices to make. Realize that every time you're dismissive of her behavior you're showing her how to be dismissive of others. I'm not saying to overlook it when she's obnoxious, but be sensitive to the fact that she's trying to get her needs met but can't figure out how to do that any better way than what she's doing right now.
> unkind and hurtful. She knows it is, too.
---Meredith
[email protected]
"I'm sure we're not the only ones who have had to go through guiding their
children on appropriate social behavior, helping them grow in positive ways.
What can we do to help encourage our daughter to be kind to others besides
continuing to be kind ourselves? Do we ban them from playing with kids who
have negative influence over their behavior? Continue to point it out?
Supervise? Make a plan to spend a lot more time with other unschooling
families so our kids don't feel left out if we don't let them play with the
neighbors?"
Hmm. . . OK, first, banning them from seeing other kids in the neighborhood is not the solution. It's just arbitrary and cruel. Unless the other kids are ax murderers. And it doesn't sound like they are anything but regular kids.
Seeing other unschooling families is always a good idea. :) And a good opportunity to notice that unschooling kids aren't always perfect either and/or that they do seem easier to get along with and not as concerned about some problem the school kids were upset about.
With that many young kids, I would think supervision would be a necessity. This ain't the movies where the gang runs down to the local sand lot to play ball. This is real life where an adult needs to be present.
How you are present and what you show to the other kids, as well as your own, about living well -- that's where I would put my energy. Treat your kids kindly - in front of the other kids. Help them work out a problem - in front of the other kids.
And I like the idea of making your house the fun house. Not in material ways or even in the level of activities. Not the entertainment center, necessarily, but the place where a kid won't get yelled at, will be treated well, will be asked instead of told, etc.
Sounds like you have a busy summer ahead of you. :)
Nance
children on appropriate social behavior, helping them grow in positive ways.
What can we do to help encourage our daughter to be kind to others besides
continuing to be kind ourselves? Do we ban them from playing with kids who
have negative influence over their behavior? Continue to point it out?
Supervise? Make a plan to spend a lot more time with other unschooling
families so our kids don't feel left out if we don't let them play with the
neighbors?"
Hmm. . . OK, first, banning them from seeing other kids in the neighborhood is not the solution. It's just arbitrary and cruel. Unless the other kids are ax murderers. And it doesn't sound like they are anything but regular kids.
Seeing other unschooling families is always a good idea. :) And a good opportunity to notice that unschooling kids aren't always perfect either and/or that they do seem easier to get along with and not as concerned about some problem the school kids were upset about.
With that many young kids, I would think supervision would be a necessity. This ain't the movies where the gang runs down to the local sand lot to play ball. This is real life where an adult needs to be present.
How you are present and what you show to the other kids, as well as your own, about living well -- that's where I would put my energy. Treat your kids kindly - in front of the other kids. Help them work out a problem - in front of the other kids.
And I like the idea of making your house the fun house. Not in material ways or even in the level of activities. Not the entertainment center, necessarily, but the place where a kid won't get yelled at, will be treated well, will be asked instead of told, etc.
Sounds like you have a busy summer ahead of you. :)
Nance