VickiJ

Hello from a reader, now a poster. I've only known there was such a thing as unschooling for about 20 months, though a lot of how I've always been with my children fit with unschooling notions.

The other day a couple with whom I am friends were remarking about someone else's children, how they were never "disciplined" by the parents. The man said, "What many parents don't know is that 'No means I love you' ". All I could think of to say at the moment was that I thought it was good to think of ways to say yes as often as possible, but that didn't really address his point about the children he thought were behaving badly.

I feel new enough to the ideas of unschooling that I need some help with ways to respond to conversations like the one just related, way that allow me to remain true to my beliefs about relating to children, but don't set me up for an all-out attack on "those people who just let their children run wild". This may have been discussed already ad infinitum, so feel free to direct me to those discussions, but I'm interested in anecdotal stories of how unschoolers respond to "accepted wisdom" regarding childrearing, whether stock answers or thought of in the moment.

Thanks for any great responses you've come up with in the past.

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "VickiJ" <vjohnsonbarrett@...> wrote:
>> I feel new enough to the ideas of unschooling that I need some help with ways to respond to conversations like the one just related, way that allow me to remain true to my beliefs about relating to children, but don't set me up for an all-out attack
*******************

You might want to spend some time thinking about why you want to respond at all - are you feeling defensive? like you want to teach those other parents something? Those would be good reasons to bite your tongue. If you're wanting to offer up a gentler perspective in the moment it can be enough to make a "normal" sort of comment like "parenting's a lot of hard work, sometimes" or "some kids are easier to parent than others."

When I've talked about unschooling with other, non-unschooling parents its usually outside of situations like the one you've described - its just not helpful to get into a debate at a time like that. I'm more likely to offer alternative ideas when another mom is complaining about her kids if she seems to be looking for ideas - although not if she's just venting.

---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)

[email protected]

What exactly were these horrible, awful, terrible children doing?

Nance


--- In [email protected], "VickiJ" <vjohnsonbarrett@...> wrote:
>
> Hello from a reader, now a poster. I've only known there was such a thing as unschooling for about 20 months, though a lot of how I've always been with my children fit with unschooling notions.
>
> The other day a couple with whom I am friends were remarking about someone else's children, how they were never "disciplined" by the parents. The man said, "What many parents don't know is that 'No means I love you' ". All I could think of to say at the moment was that I thought it was good to think of ways to say yes as often as possible, but that didn't really address his point about the children he thought were behaving badly.

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jan 17, 2010, at 6:35 AM, VickiJ wrote:

> The man said, "What many parents don't know is that 'No means I
> love you' "

If his wife says no to him, does he feel more loved?

Why do adults think children are alien creatures who react to
treatment completely different from adults?

If I were quick, I could say -- but I'm not so I can write ;-): "As
an adult, No makes me feel like someone's saying, 'I don't care what
you want. I need you to do what I think is right,' and that makes me
not want to listen."

I think he *means* No means "I love you so I'll stop you from
behavior that is dangerous now or, if you continue, in the future as
an adult." But it creates very sloppy thinking to shorten it to "No
means I love you" because 1) parents don't have much more than gut
feeling about when to say no. Most is guess work based on a bits and
pieces of philosophy gathered over a lifetime that actually don't
work together. Which is why parents think parenting is so hard! And
2) while the sound bite doesn't mean any and every No means "I love
you," it does say that and muddies thinking. Better to be longer and
clear than short and muddy.

While, yes, I want my husband to stop me before I do something
dangerous! What I'd really like is his help in figuring out a better
way to do something. So, there are more options than No, Yes (or
implied yes by not telling kids no). There's "Hey, let's find a
better way to do that." (Sometimes an explanation is in order if
they're not seeing the big picture. Sometimes they know what they're
doing is less than respectful or safe, but just can't figure out a
way to avoid the danger or hurt feelings. "No" doesn't tell them
anything they don't know. "No" doesn't help them find a better
solution. (Their actions are already saying they couldn't figure it
out.)

So a short version is "'Let's find a better way to do that' means 'I
love you.'"
> I feel new enough to the ideas of unschooling that I need some help
> with ways to respond to conversations like the one just related,
> way that allow me to remain true to my beliefs about relating to
> children, but don't set me up for an all-out attack on "those
> people who just let their children run wild".


Keeping it short and about yourself is good rather than trying to
make generalizations. You could say that you want them to hear your
approach and think "Good, Mom's coming to help us fix this," rather
than "Crap, Mom's coming to stop us."

But sometimes silence is best. Actions speak louder than words :-)

Joyce