Elli

Hi all -

I've got this fabulous daughter who spends her every waking minute making videos and posting them on Youtube. I can't begin to list all of the things she is learning...acting, directing, producing, editing, marketing, networking, coordinating, collaborating...okay, so I can list them!

Anyway, she has always been a kid who likes to try things, just a sample of a class, like someone who wants to poke their fingers in all of the chocolates to taste each filling - curiosity, enthusiasm, excitement, eagerness....

During this past year she's asked to take acting classes. I signed her up in the spring. She went to one class. And, then she told me she wasn't interested any more - they were doing a musical and she wanted drama. So, after some unsuccessful cajoling, I stopped taking her.

This fall, she asked again for a class at a different acting school. I signed her up again. She went. She even asked to audition for the associated acting troop. She auditioned and got in. Now, she doesn't want to do either - the troop or the class. She has work she wants to do at home instead.

I've got $250 left to pay for the class and limited funds with which to pay that.

The teacher has said that she is counting on all of the kids who joined the troop to come and do their roles. My kid is one of those.

I've pushed her to go for the past month now. She's goes, kicking and screaming. I am tired of pushing. She is tired of being pushed. And, I know, it is not very un-schooly to make anyone do anything that they don't want to do.

I've thought about doing the following, and I'd like your feedback.

1. Writing an email to the teacher telling her to remove my kid from the class.

2. Ask if I can stop paying on the class, since my kid won't be there anymore.

3. Let teacher know that my kid won't be in the troop either.

4. Apologize on behalf of my daughter for leaving the teacher in the lurch with the play and the three lines my kids has in it.

And, I've thought about how to approach this in the future with my kid:

1. Find shorter classes for her (already did that once, went last weekend to the ActorsFest in NYC, signed up for 2 one-hour classes, went to one together, learned a lot, and then went on about our day, skipping the second class, had a great time, not a big financial investment either!)

2. If she finds a longer class she is interested in, ask the school/teacher if she can try a sample class or two or three. Offer to pay a prorated rate for the hours she attends.

To my schooled mind, these ideas sound crazy - nagging thoughts running through my head sound like this, "How will she learn about commitment if she breaks this one??" and "She promised to participate!!! She's letting folks down now." and "No one lets a kid sample a class before signing up, that's crazy!"

My un-schooled mind says, "Your daughter's needs are more important than the teacher's needs." and "Your daughter knows what is best for her, so trust her." and "Your relationship with your daughter is more important than what the teacher thinks of you or her."

So, unschooling parents - are these ideas crazy? Is there another way I am not seeing right now? Any other un-schooling parent thoughts I can open up to in order to support my daughter?

Thanks!

Elli

ps. I appreciated reading the post about the kid who likes to stay home. That is my son completely!! I am learning not to push him. As we heal, as I stop pushing, he finds it easier to leave the house when we have somewhere to go. And, the relationship between my two kids is better than I could ever have imagined it would be, thanks to un-schooling and a love-based rather than fear-based approach to life!!

Joyce Fetteroll

On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Elli wrote:

> "No one lets a kid sample a class before signing up, that's crazy!"

Sure they do :-) Some places will even refund some of your money up
until a certain number of classes.

All you have to do is ask to find out what their policy is!

> "How will she learn about commitment if she breaks this one??"
>

What she'll learn is that it's best not to try things or she'll be
stuck with them.

She'll learn that her internal sense that something's taking from her
more than it's giving back is to be ignored. Sticking to something no
matter what is what counts.

We stick with our obligations not because we have to, but because we
care about our reputation and we don't want to hurt others. What
parents make kids do is go through the motions so the *surface* looks
like duty and commitment. You can't make someone feel duty. Though
you can make them feel guilty for not going through the motions!
> "Your daughter's needs are more important than the teacher's needs."

That's really more of a case by case basis. No teacher wants kids
there who don't want to be there. If there's a performance, they know
it's possible one or two kids might not make it (illness for
instance). That's what understudies are for. But if half the cast
decides they don't want to do it just because, that's not fair to the
teacher or the other kids who've put a lot of time into something
based on everyone showing up.

But that's better covered with her before someone signs up. If you
know she has a history of this, then it's best not to sign her up for
anything where her absence will be a burden on other people in the
class.

The problem is that most parents just react in a knee jerk way and
color all lessons and activities with the same amount of obligation.
That doesn't help kids be thoughtful and discerning.

> "Your daughter knows what is best for her, so trust her."
>


As far as quitting, I'd say yes. As far as signing up for a
particular class, she obviously doesn't have the experience to grasp
what's ahead. She may be signing up for the *idea* of the class
rather than what the class will actually be. Your idea of signing her
up for shorter classes seems to suit who she is right now better.

When a class looks intriguing, you can ask her what she expects it
will be like and what she expects to get out of it. She may be
grasping at a class because it seems like the only opportunity so the
more choices she has, the better.

> "Your relationship with your daughter is more important than what
> the teacher thinks of you or her."
>

Well, yeah :-)

Joyce

JJ

I was thinking that maybe it's the "class" structure itself that she doesn't like in all these examples, and that is a valuable bit of learning! If so, that's a good thing for her to know about herself because now you can move in a different direction than classes. Maybe help such a child explore other wonderful ways to engage in the activities she likes, rather than continuing to put her into and out of a whole series of classes looking for the one she will continue, when she doesn't like classes.

Our daughter like musical theatre more than drama, but she didn't like acting and musical theatre classes with other kids. She didn't want to be in youth productions run by schools and teachers either. She wanted to do real community theatre among adults even as a 12-year-old. So that's what we invested her time and our money in, and she became part of a real "troupe" learning from doing, at first running crew, being props assistant etc, helping to paint sets, mop the stage before each show.

One advantage of that btw, is that you meet and get to know many professionals who are amateur (meaning for the love of it) do-ers rather than primarily teachers running classes in how to do, and when you meet just the right one for you at the right time, you can arrange for them to teach you exactly what you want to learn, the way you want to learn it.


--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Elli wrote:
>
> > "No one lets a kid sample a class before signing up, that's crazy!"
>
> Sure they do :-) Some places will even refund some of your money up
> until a certain number of classes.
>
> All you have to do is ask to find out what their policy is!
>
> > "How will she learn about commitment if she breaks this one??"
> >
>
> What she'll learn is that it's best not to try things or she'll be
> stuck with them.
>
> She'll learn that her internal sense that something's taking from her
> more than it's giving back is to be ignored. Sticking to something no
> matter what is what counts.
>
> We stick with our obligations not because we have to, but because we
> care about our reputation and we don't want to hurt others. What
> parents make kids do is go through the motions so the *surface* looks
> like duty and commitment. You can't make someone feel duty. Though
> you can make them feel guilty for not going through the motions!
> > "Your daughter's needs are more important than the teacher's needs."
>
> That's really more of a case by case basis. No teacher wants kids
> there who don't want to be there. If there's a performance, they know
> it's possible one or two kids might not make it (illness for
> instance). That's what understudies are for. But if half the cast
> decides they don't want to do it just because, that's not fair to the
> teacher or the other kids who've put a lot of time into something
> based on everyone showing up.
>
> But that's better covered with her before someone signs up. If you
> know she has a history of this, then it's best not to sign her up for
> anything where her absence will be a burden on other people in the
> class.
>
> The problem is that most parents just react in a knee jerk way and
> color all lessons and activities with the same amount of obligation.
> That doesn't help kids be thoughtful and discerning.
>
> > "Your daughter knows what is best for her, so trust her."
> >
>
>
> As far as quitting, I'd say yes. As far as signing up for a
> particular class, she obviously doesn't have the experience to grasp
> what's ahead. She may be signing up for the *idea* of the class
> rather than what the class will actually be. Your idea of signing her
> up for shorter classes seems to suit who she is right now better.
>
> When a class looks intriguing, you can ask her what she expects it
> will be like and what she expects to get out of it. She may be
> grasping at a class because it seems like the only opportunity so the
> more choices she has, the better.
>
> > "Your relationship with your daughter is more important than what
> > the teacher thinks of you or her."
> >
>
> Well, yeah :-)
>
> Joyce
>

JJ

Joyce is right. And who does it most of all? Why college of course! Without drop-and-add for a few weeks every term, college classes wouldn't work for the teachers or the students. And without switching classes around after the terms starts, honoring the commitment still only mean three months or so, not a year at a time as younger students usually have to sign on for blind.

So you can think of it as (and tell the next teacher who tries to guilt you that) your daughter having skipped over the artificial kid stuff for higher education, and already following the college learning model. Then ask which they are set up to operate as. ;-)

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:00 AM, Elli wrote:
>
> > "No one lets a kid sample a class before signing up, that's crazy!"
>
> Sure they do :-) Some places will even refund some of your money up
> until a certain number of classes.
>
> All you have to do is ask to find out what their policy is!
>
> > "How will she learn about commitment if she breaks this one??"
> >
>
> What she'll learn is that it's best not to try things or she'll be
> stuck with them.
>
> She'll learn that her internal sense that something's taking from her
> more than it's giving back is to be ignored. Sticking to something no
> matter what is what counts.
>

Janice Reynolds

Just an FYI example of how our parent-run competitive dance studio handles
this.



We allow kids to come and watch and participate in any class, till the end
of September. So current students of our studio, can try new classes. New
students can come see what its like, or which classes suit them. You
basically don't have to pay anything till the end of Sept. During that
time, we have one "Parent Watch" week where the parents can come and watch,
and see for themselves what it is about. (otherwise we have a closed-door
policy).



We really want to encourage kids to come and try.



After the end of September, we still accept withdrawals, and refund money on
a pro-rated basis. By Dec, we have to order costumes, so we need kids to
commit after that, since a costume is ordered, but they could still quite as
long as the parent still pays for the costume, since we can't cancel them.



After Christmas, choreography for competition starts, so we expect very good
attendance, and that you will stay with the class till the end of the year.
If you miss too many classes or can't commit, the teacher will take the
student out of the choreography. There are no refunds after Christmas.



I handle the registration - all this trying out of classes in the fall, is a
pain in the butt, but we think it pays off in letting kids see what it is
like. We'd like dance to be accessible to all. We also know its better if
they quit in the fall, than try to stick it out, and then quit during
competition time when it really screws everything up.



Janice



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