Betsie Eikenberry

My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betj

My son reads mostly manga and occasionally picks up other books and may or may not finish them, I figure he's enjoying it and reading should be for enjoyment.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Betsie Eikenberry <mama251ders@...>

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:14:24
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11yo stubborn reader


My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan Burgess

My 11 yr old dd is barely a reader at all. She cannot read a book all the
way through, she can sound out some words and recognize others, but all in
all, not a fluent reader. She went to school thru 2nd grade and was labeled
dyslexic, put in special ed classes. Even after I brought her home, I looked
to getting her help. All of which I highly regret. She is now recovering
from being made to feel less than she was, that she wasn't good enough. I am
just letting her heal and not bringing up "learning to read". She reads some
things on her own, many others she asks me or her older sister what it says.
It does hinder her some, there are some classes she is interested in,
cooking for instance, but she won't take because you have to read things in
them. It worries me some, but I think letting her heal is the best thing to
do.

All that to say, I don't think pushing him to read things he's not
interested in will help him. I'm not sure what you mean by graphic novels,
but Eyewitness books are wonderful and full of great, interesting things, it
sounds great to me. He might not ever be interested in reading novels, but
more informational books, there's nothing wrong with that!



From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Betj
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] 11yo stubborn reader



My son reads mostly manga and occasionally picks up other books and may or
may not finish them, I figure he's enjoying it and reading should be for
enjoyment.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Betsie Eikenberry <mama251ders@...
<mailto:mama251ders%40gmail.com> >

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:14:24
To: <[email protected]
<mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11yo stubborn reader


My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

Have you read graphic novels? There are some amazing graphic novels. Watchman, Persepolis, Maus these are all fantastic books, fantastics pieces of art. I saw the pages from Maus at MOMA in New York years ago. Art Speigelman won a Pulitzer Prize Letters Award for Maus. Bone, I love Bone. I could go on. They aren't minor things, they aren't distractions from literature, they are literature. Neil Gaiman's Sandman is such a weaving of mythology and cynicism and story telling, it is as real a book as any other book. Grant Morrison's Animal Man discusses vegetarianism, social issues, the context of being a superhero and having a life. Alan Moore's MiracleMan discusses some similar ideas. If you want to look at it, for yourself, from an academic perspective Scott McCloud did a comic book called Understanding Comics (http://www.scottmccloud.com/2-print/1-uc/index.html) which talks about the combination of a visual medium with a literary medium and all that
comes within that.

They are real books. I have re-tellings of different stories as graphic novels and while there may be fewer words, the books aren't any less complicated for the accompanying pictures. Why do you feel that graphic novels are less than other books? How do you define a real book?

Schuyler




________________________________
From: Betsie Eikenberry <mama251ders@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February, 2009 9:14:24 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11yo stubborn reader

My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Betsie Eikenberry <mama251ders@...>wrote:

> My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and
> things
> like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
> it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
> read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
> novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
> for me.
>

>
>

Your son is reading for pleasure, his own pleasure. Real words, real
sentences, real ideas, real pictures, all proposed by real people.

Imagine yourself as him... You're happily enjoying your little world created
by the graphic novel in front of you and each time your loved one walks
through the room, you either hear or feel their dismay with your choice. How
long would that person remain loved by you?
I hope not very long. Chances are, you don't have much opportunity to
remain loved by your son, either.
Please honor his joy. It really is the *least* you can do.

~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schuyler

I wrote my first response, running around the house for a couple of minutes to find Scott McCloud's book (I couldn't remember his name) and after I'd written it I had a few other thoughts.

Why do you read? Really. I read to get information, to engage and amuse me, to pass time, because words are in front of my face. Why do you want your 11 year old son to read? What do you think pressing him to read "real" books will do? How would encouraging him to read "real" books look? If David, my husband, came to me and told me that he thought I was reading too much Terry Pratchett and not enough of the classics I would get pretty irritated. And it wouldn't make me feel good about my choices, nor would it make me feel fonder of him.

Schuyler

________________________________

From: Betsie Eikenberry <mama251ders@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February, 2009 9:14:24 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11yo stubborn reader

My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I was labeled a slow reader in school. I had to go to a tutor in 3rd grade
to catch up with the other kids. I never enjoyed reading and I didn't have the
capacity to sit and read for more then a few minutes. My mind kept wandering
to other things and I would have read the whole page and not remembered a
thing. When I was in 8th grade (around 13) I read a VC Andrews book that
belonged to my sister and I fell in love with reading. I couldn't get enough. I
loved that there were more books with the same story, and I hated that the
stories would eventually come to an end. (I still am that way...LOL) There was
nothing that anyone could have done for me to prepare me to read "books". My
parents tried and my teachers tried but my mind was not yet ready. I love reading
today thankfully but sometimes I feel like "the stupid one in class" even
though they never told it to me but because I always needed extra help or
someone was telling me I should be at this level.

Erin


In a message dated 2/25/2009 4:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mama251ders@... writes:




My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
_http://andanotherthhttp://andanhttp://andanothehttp:/_
(http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

griesellists

I have to second your recommendation. I was a "real book" reader as
a kid and did not discover graphic novels until introduced to them as
an adult. Many have the same depth of character, theme, and plotting
of "real books". I'd go one further on Understanding Comics, a book
I also really like. I would get a copy, read it, then casually leave
it around the house where your son could find it and pick it up.
Maybe while casually leaving some sketch paper and good quality
colored pencils lying about.

Tamara

> Have you read graphic novels? There are some amazing graphic
novels. Watchman, Persepolis, Maus these are all fantastic books,
fantastics pieces of art. I saw the pages from Maus at MOMA in New
York years ago. Art Speigelman won a Pulitzer Prize Letters Award for
Maus. Bone, I love Bone. I could go on. They aren't minor things,
they aren't distractions from literature, they are literature. Neil
Gaiman's Sandman is such a weaving of mythology and cynicism and
story telling, it is as real a book as any other book. Grant
Morrison's Animal Man discusses vegetarianism, social issues, the
context of being a superhero and having a life. Alan Moore's
MiracleMan discusses some similar ideas. If you want to look at it,
for yourself, from an academic perspective Scott McCloud did a comic
book called Understanding Comics (http://www.scottmccloud.com/2-
print/1-uc/index.html) which talks about the combination of a visual
medium with a literary medium and all that

Heather & Markus Schleidt

Most people worry when you unschool about reading and math. Funny, my husband never read a book in his life (although he was supposed to in school) until one year ago. There was never any need to read for him. He is successful, funny, easy to talk to (unless you are discussing Shakespeare or Dickens and who really cares???) and now he reads a lot of stuff that interests him.



I, on the other hand, could read 24 hours a day - mysteries, romances, suspense, classics, adventure - I don't care. I can honestly say that my husband is more educated and knowledgeable about the world than I am, and I have been reading "real" books all my life.



My only point in saying all this is why do we put so much emphasis on reading anyway?? In the schools you hear things like "Those that read, succeed." Although I would love it if my boys read (they don't much) it is really only because I know how much I enjoy it and think they would, too. I guess everyone has different things that interest them and we should respect that. I just choose to have my discussions about Dante or Dickens or Shakespeare with someone other than my husband. That doesn't make him any less of a person and you shouldn't worry about your son being less "educated" or whatever your worries are.



To: [email protected]
From: mama251ders@...
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:14:24 -0500
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] 11yo stubborn reader





My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live�: Discover 10 secrets about the new Windows Live.
http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!7540.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_ugc_post_022009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AHMAD MALLAH

Dear Heather:You couldn't have expressed it any better. I totally agree with your point of view and every person is different and nobody is better than the other, as simple as that. Amelia




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lovejoy

-----Original Message-----
From: Betsie Eikenberry <mama251ders@...>








My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

First of all, take a D-E-E-P breath. 



Now think:




Do you *really*...REALLY...think he will never move on from the graphic novels? Seriously?




REALLY?




OK---worst case scenario: he never reads another book. Ever. Would that make him "less than"' who he is?




What if you forced him to read the classics? What if that turned him off from reading altogether? This was the case with my son, Cameron. In school, he was required to read all sorts of books. After he left school (end of sixth grade), he refused to read books for *years*. Six years, if I'm not mistaken. Then he chose to read Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child, An Unschooled Life. Then he read Stargirl. Since then, he can't seem to be without a book. He reads every day. On *his* terms. Because he wants to. Right now he's reading John Holt. <bwg>




As hard as it was for me to accept that he needed to find it in his own time, it was just as sweet fo
r me to watch him become a bibliophile. <g> I'm so glad I backed off of the reading and let him come to it in his own way, in his own time.



 ~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." ~Gandhi














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

My son is 12 and although he can read, he doesn't seem to enjoy it as much
as I do. I love to read and would quite happily read all day, to the
exclusion of many other things. My son, not so much. He enjoyed graphic novels,
although he hasn't read any lately. He reads magazines and used to read comic
books. I haven't bought any comics lately. (Note to self --- ask if he'd
like any to take on the road) His interests change from time to time. We have
lots of books around the house and he is free to read any that he chooses.
Some times I'll read something to him from a book I'm reading and he'll want
to hear more or he won't. He came to me recently and read to me from the game
informer magazine to point out an error they made. So, I know he can read.
It's just that his choices aren't the same as mine. I don't particularly
enjoy game informer magazine, but he does.
His older sister and I go to the library frequently. He sometimes chooses
to go and sometimes not. If he does go he doesn't always get books to bring
home. I will bring home books that I think might interest him. Sometimes I'm
right and sometimes not. Once in a while he isn't interested in reading,
but is interested in the book. It gives us a chance to sit together and read.
lol, or rather, I read until I don't have enough voice left.
Some of the books that I like my daughter wouldn't enjoy. That doesn't mean
that at 24 she can't read or that her choices are wrong. It doesn't mean
that my choices are wrong. It just means we have different interests. I would
think that it is okay for your son to avoid the so-called real books.
Graphic novels meet a need or fill an interest he has. He enjoys them. When he
wants to read something different he will.

Marianne

******************************************************************************
**********************************


My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

**************Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your
neighborhood today.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000004)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 2/25/2009 6:36 PM, PCAFARDI@... wrote:
> My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
> like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books.
Just a few sort of related thoughts, based on my own experience:

I'm in the middle of reading Watchman - the most famous of all graphic
novels and about to be a movie. It is hard for me to read a graphic
novel - my eyes don't quite know how to do it. I lose concentration. I'm
impressed by how my kids read graphic novels and get so much out of
them. I constantly have to go back and really look at the pictures, my
habit is to ignore pictures and just read the words - missing a lot of
important stuff going on.

My vision is not great and is getting worse, so a few years ago I
started listening to books, instead of reading them. When I started, I
hated it. I just couldn't pay attention and I'd suddenly realize that
the book was playing in my ear but I hadn't heard it for 10 minutes. My
mind wandered. I persisted because someone else told me that they'd had
trouble listening at the beginning and then grew to love it. I do too,
now. I've listened to something around 200 books in the last few years.

For about 20 years I barely read any fiction. I read nonfiction of all
kinds, but fiction just didn't appeal to me. Just in the last few years
has fiction again become the focus of my reading (or listening).

-pam

Schuyler

Ooh V.C. Andrews Flowers in the Attic? I can remember reading that and a couple of the sequels in one night in the basement of my extended families' friends who had taken us in after my grandfather's car caught on fire on our way to Wyoming to go fishing. Would those count as "real" books or live in the derisively thought of world of incestous romance novels? If you enjoy them does it matter whether they are Dickens or Walker or if they are V.C. Andrews or Alan Moore or Stan Lee?

Humans are such wonderful specialists. We find our own niches, our own skills. And yet schools teach to those of us who are good at the academic skills, who are good at reading and writing and analyzing and regurgitating and who are good at math from a computational standpoint and later from a more artistic understanding of math. Schools do not reward those who are looking to fill the other many and wonderful niches that humans fill. So those who aren't academically minded are punished and made to feel less than or lazy or difficult or special needs and not embiggened. It is an awful thing.

Schuyler




________________________________
From: "ewoodward76@..." <ewoodward76@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February, 2009 10:40:02 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] 11yo stubborn reader

I was labeled a slow reader in school. I had to go to a tutor in 3rd grade
to catch up with the other kids. I never enjoyed reading and I didn't have the
capacity to sit and read for more then a few minutes. My mind kept wandering
to other things and I would have read the whole page and not remembered a
thing. When I was in 8th grade (around 13) I read a VC Andrews book that
belonged to my sister and I fell in love with reading. I couldn't get enough. I
loved that there were more books with the same story, and I hated that the
stories would eventually come to an end. (I still am that way...LOL) There was
nothing that anyone could have done for me to prepare me to read "books". My
parents tried and my teachers tried but my mind was not yet ready. I love reading
today thankfully but sometimes I feel like "the stupid one in class" even
though they never told it to me but because I always needed extra help or
someone was telling me I should be at this level.

Erin


In a message dated 2/25/2009 4:26:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mama251ders@... writes:




My oldest son is almost 11 and only wants to read graphic novels and things
like Eyewitness books. I feel like he should be reading "real" books. Is
it okay for him to avoid "real" books still? Should I encourage him more to
read "real" books? My fear is that he will never move on from the graphic
novels and such. I know I should be more trusting, but this is a hard one
for me.

Betsie

--
Betsie Eikenberry
Senior Domestic Coordinator and
Employee Development Specialist
Eikenberry Enterprises LLC
_http://andanotherthhttp://andanhttp://andanothehttp:/_
(http://andanotherthing.typepad.com/and_another_thing/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 25, 2009, at 4:14 PM, Betsie Eikenberry wrote:

> I feel like he should be reading "real" books.

I *love* graphic novels, especially manga. *That's* what I wanted my
whole life and nothing else quite filled the hole. Comics and science
fiction and fantasy didn't have the depth of character I wanted. In
fact, now that Kathryn's ready to move on, I'm moving out the "real"
books so there's plenty of room for the manga that's stacking up
everywhere ;-)

For years people have pointed out that some people learn better
visually (by seeing something) and some people learn better by
reading. It wasn't until recently that I realized I draw from both.
Growing up I bet I never made it through a full article in National
Geographic or Popular Science or Popular Mechanics. But I went
through and looked at all the pictures and read the captions of the
ones that interested me. (Even though I was a prolific reader. But
what I read other people would have branded as fluff (science fiction
and fantasy).)

Science classes didn't feed my love of science. Nor did "real" books
about science. Pictures and Nova and other science programs on TV and
science fictions. Nothing that educators would have deemed real.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tammy Curry

This is a hard one to let go of especially if you are a prolific novel (fiction/non-fiction) reader yourself. My youngest brother barely read all the way through public school, now he reads everything he can get his hands on. My daughter started off with a love books and it died some where along the line in public school. Now, graphic novels she can't put down. I know she can read and read quite well. But she is happy and always has a book lying around that she is reading. I spent a little bit of time talking to our children's librarian. She and my daughter spent two separate days combing the library to find books that appealed to her. I honestly didn't care of it was just a picture book but I wanted her to find that love of books again. She loved it she and the librarian became really good friends, they talk about the books she reads and she asks the librarian for recommendations on different subjects. So I know she is reading but her fun relaxation
reading is graphic novels. For her special interests she is finding a wealth of information in various sources and they don't have to be books. Videos, games, internet, they all require reading. So if it is not your typical story just know that they cannot get through the day without seeing words posted/printed some place. All books were created equal, some just appeal to different people more than others.


Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

Hmm so should I, at 48, NOT be reading books from the "young adult"
section of the library? That's where things like The Giver and the Ember
series and the Harry Potter series are. Are they not "real" enough for a
"grown up"? Graphic novels are awesome works of BOTH art and literature,
that takes serious work. Instead of 'disapproving' (verbally or not),
encourage it, find places to get more of what he loves. Find out what he
loves about them - have you even read some yourself, asked his advice on
what would be a fun one for you to read?

Deb R


**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsie

First of all, thank you to everyone who answered my concerns. I
really appreciate the support. I am just learning to let go of all my
pre-conceived notions from being public-schooled myself and it helps
to have the support of others who are on this journey too.

And Deb, I am so sorry if I have offended you. I actually didn't say
anything specifically about young adult books. I read those too and
love them. I was actually including those in my statement "real"
books. I guess I used the wrong term, I actually meant comic books
like Calvin and Hobbes and Astrix, not the more involved graphic
novels (I have no idea what terms go with what!). I actually think
these are quite fun to read and enjoy them myself. My concern was
that he may not move on from these and learn to enjoy other books as
well. I have never said anything to him about disapproving of comic
books and we read them together all the time. I encourage him to read
other things, but I don't push.

Again, if I insulted you , I am deeply sorry. That was not my intent.
My intent was simply to get some advice on an issue I am struggling
with. I understand that not everyone struggles with the same issues
and that we all have differing opinions. I am relatively new to this
way of life and I am still adjusting and letting go. Everyone is at
different places in their journey and this is were I am at right now.

Blessings,
Betsie
--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing"
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm so should I, at 48, NOT be reading books from the "young adult"
> section of the library? That's where things like The Giver and the Ember
> series and the Harry Potter series are. Are they not "real" enough for a
> "grown up"? Graphic novels are awesome works of BOTH art and literature,
> that takes serious work. Instead of 'disapproving' (verbally or not),
> encourage it, find places to get more of what he loves. Find out what he
> loves about them - have you even read some yourself, asked his advice on
> what would be a fun one for you to read?
>
> Deb R
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> CNC Software, Inc.
> www.mastercam.com
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Meredith

--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> When I started, I
> hated it. I just couldn't pay attention and I'd suddenly realize
that
> the book was playing in my ear but I hadn't heard it for 10
minutes. My
> mind wandered. I persisted because someone else told me that they'd
had
> trouble listening at the beginning and then grew to love it. I do
too,
> now. I've listened to something around 200 books in the last few
years.

Wow, Pam, I'm so glad you wrote this. I've avoided audio books for
exactly this reason - but I really do crave something other than
music when I'm working. I sometimes play a movie while I sew just so
I can listen to it. I'll have to practice this, now that I know its
something that takes time to develop.
Thank You!

---Merdith (Mo 7, Ray 15)

griesellists

Tripods. Day of the Triffids. Holes. Robert Cormier. Madeleine
L'Engle. Ursula LeGuin (Earthsea). Twain. Many authors have used
children's fiction as a place to write about the truly important things
or to subvert the established order. I'm still finding new "kid stuff"
to read.

Beverly Cleary still makes me laugh out loud.

Tamara

Schuyler

Calvin and Hobbes is amazing. The name Hobbes is a reference to Thomas Hobbes and Calvin to John Calvin. It's a study in how those two world views play out, as well as many other things. Fantastically wonderful books. Read up on them. Start at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_and_Hobbes. There are fantastic ideas in morality and empathy and snowman sculpture and time travel being played out in that strip.

Simon loves Asterix and Obelix. The puns are great, the references, Cesar in every one. Have you seen the movies? See if you can get them in the U.S. There is even a live action one. See if your son would enjoy those. There is even an Asterix theme park in France that I really would love to take Simon to sometime.

Linnaea really likes Pearls Before Swine. Maybe your son would enjoy some of the collections of that. I'm sure there are more that are along the same lines. I like Jughead comics, we have a lot of those laying around.

Schuyler




________________________________
From: Betsie <mama251ders@...>

I was actually including those in my statement "real"
books. I guess I used the wrong term, I actually meant comic books
like Calvin and Hobbes and Astrix, not the more involved graphic
novels (I have no idea what terms go with what!). I actually think
these are quite fun to read and enjoy them myself.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Betsie <mama251ders@...> wrote:

> I actually didn't say
> anything specifically about young adult books. I read those too and
> love them. I was actually including those in my statement "real"
> books. I guess I used the wrong term, I actually meant comic books
> like Calvin and Hobbes and Astrix, not the more involved graphic
> novels (I have no idea what terms go with what!). I actually think
> these are quite fun to read and enjoy them myself. My concern was
> that he may not move on from these and learn to enjoy other books as
> well. I have never said anything to him about disapproving of comic
> books and we read them together all the time. I encourage him to read
> other things, but I don't push.
>













Calvin and Hobbes: My Super Cool Boyfriend has them tatooed on his arm,
dancing. One of the things I love about him is that he hasn't outgrown his
love of Calvin & Hobbes; in fact, his relation to Calvin has helped his
understanding of unschooling! He wishes Calvin's parents had been so
enlightened :D Again, very real, not in any way not-real (I guess I'm not
sure I understand what you mean with this distinction)

>
> I am relatively new to this
> way of life and I am still adjusting and letting go. Everyone is at
> different places in their journey and this is were I am at right now.
>
>
>
One really important thing to let go of is that picture in your mind of what
*should be* -- those thoughts are blocking your ability to embrace *what is*
right in front of you.

This time of year is really, really tough for me... this week included the
3rd anniversary of my daughter's death AND the 1st anniversary of the death
of a very cool unschooling mama. It is the reality in my life that Life is
Short and every single second counts! If your son got hit by a bus tomorrow
(sorry for the macbre example) would you rather he die: feeling he
disappointed his mother for liking the *wrong* things or feeling completely
loved and accepted for who he is, exacty where he is?? Truly, the choice is
yours, right here, right now in every single moment there's a chance to do
better, to listen more, to accept wholly... Better there be no regrets in
your relationship + gaps in education than no regrets about arbitrary
*shoulds* + insurmountable gaps in your relationship.

Please forgive what may seem harsh advice and try on the urgency I feel is
at the heart of unschooling - our time (even without young death) with our
children is *so* short on the scope of Life, what we make of it matters
deeply.
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

>
> I encourage him to read
> other things, but I don't push.
>

What that looks like at our house:
~[to Hayden from me] Hey! Did you know World of Warcraft has books!! Let's
get this trilogy!
~[to Hayden from me] If you get bored while we're doing X, I have Artemis
Fowl, Harry Potter and Unfortunate Events on the MP3 for ya.
~[from Scotty to me VERY EXCITED]OMG I just got this cool Dune installment,
written by the son after the dad died, and I think you'll love it!! There
are descriptions of the palace and your favorite character is explained in
more detail...
~[me, in general] I'm listening to Sohie's World this week while I walk the
dog, I am really liking it, if you want a great explanation of philosophy
through the ages, this book is really cool.

I also tend to blather on about whatever it is I'm listening to at the
moment, because while I'm listening I generally only have the dog as company
:) I'm pretty excited at the moment because I put HP1 on the MP3 and
listened to it for the 114th time and decided to find it in Spanish!! So
far, I can only catch the names - and not all of those because of the
pronunciation difference :-/

As someone who really relishes the tactile experience of a book, I found the
learning curve of listening pretty steep in the beginning. The more I walk
the dog and knit easy projects, the easier it is to listen to books. The
more I'm interested in books that interest me and the more interesting I
become in sharing what I come away with, the more interesting books become
to those around me.
I listened to Dune for the first time last year, only because it's Scotty's
favorite and he was *so* passionate it was contagious! Be contagious!

There is a very, very delicious novelization of V for Vendetta available in
audio...
(a graphic novel, turned movie, turned novel... tough to place on the *real*
scale :::vbeg:::)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
>
>
> .
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carenkh

~~My concern was that he may not move on from these and learn to enjoy
other books as well.~~

I understand this. When my oldest (now 16) was younger, he did not
spend a lot of time reading. I had a hard time accepting that! Books
were such a HUGE part of my life - it's how I survived my childhood,
really, and I still love to read today. *How* could he not LOVE to
read?! Someone said something on a list back then that helped me see
it differently. They said, "In your childhood, you read to escape.
Your son doesn't have this need to escape." At the time, it opened my
eyes! Oh! He is NOT ME. Go figure! Now, there are some nit-picky
things I could say about that, but at the time, it helped me move
toward acceptance of his not-reading-voraciously.

One other time I got a *little* stuck with the reading thing was when
I got a set of World Book Encyclopedias. Ah! The boys were going to
LOVE them, there's a whole WORLD in those books, with information, and
pictures... I used to read our (my childhood family) set of
encyclopedias, each book, cover to cover when I was little. (I'm a
nerd, I used to also read the dictionary!) I used to spend *hours*
poring over the pictures, the different breeds of dogs, the clear
plastic human body pages, that layered. Yes, it was going to be
*bliss* at our house when I brought this set of books in. Except.
Except the boys never read them. Ever. When they asked something, I'd
look it up in the encyclopedias when appropriate, and they'd glance at
it, nothing more. {sigh} I had them for four years, before I asked the
boys if they minded if I offered them on freecycle. (I wasn't reading
them, either!) They didn't mind a bit.

It's hard when I loved something SO much, it used to make me feel like
the boys were missing out on this wonderful thing! But they have their
OWN things they love, Calvin & Hobbes among those, their OWN things
that bring them joy, that they return to again and again. My things
don't have to be their things. They are not missing a *thing*.

peace,
Caren

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 26, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Betsie wrote:

> And Deb, I am so sorry if I have offended you.

I bet Deb was not offended. That's the tough thing about this medium:
there's no voice tone that goes with it. Which means sometimes we
suply the wrong tone in our minds when we read.

That's why it's often suggested that if words sound harsh to reread
them with the gentle tone of voice of your best friend who is trying
to help you.

Hers was a legitimate question to make you stop and think about the
subject of YA books from a different direction: "Hmm so should I, at
48, NOT be reading books from the "young adult" section of the library?"

I read young adult book science fiction and fantasy long after being
a young adult because the characters were, at the time, more fully
formed.

There's a quote from Madeline L'Engle who wrote my favorite book
growing up, Wrinkle in Time: "You have to write the book that wants
to be written. And if the book will be too difficult for grown-ups,
then you write it for children."

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jodi Bezzola

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, diana jenner <hahamommy@...> wrote:
 
~~This time of year is really, really tough for me... this week included the 3rd anniversary of my daughter's death AND the 1st anniversary of the death of a very cool unschooling mama. It is the reality in my life that Life is Short and every single second counts! <snip> try on the urgency I feel is at the heart of unschooling - our time (even without young death) with our children is *so* short on the scope of Life, what we make of it matters deeply.~~
 
Thanks for this Diana, god I love your posts.  I got all teary when I read it's the anniversary of Hannah.  I'm not sure if I've said, but your posts about this topic are one of the big-time influences that shifted me into being totally in love with my girls...and treasuring every moment, even if sometimes that particular moment happens to kind of suck :).  It's during the moments that suck that I usually remember Hannah...and you...and how short your time was together...and then I give them a huge hug and whatever sucked no longer matters. 
 
Big hugs and much love and light to you this week.  My vision is still my girls and I being able to party with y'all at Life Is Good!!!
 
Jodi






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 2/26/2009 8:01 AM, Betsie wrote:
> My concern was
> that he may not move on from these and learn to enjoy other books as
> well. I have never said anything to him about disapproving of comic
> books and we read them together all the time. I encourage him to read
> other things, but I don't push.
>

He may not, but I have a friend who is about 35 and he has been a comic
book lover his entire life. He worked in a comic book store for many
years. In fact, he put himself through college and grad school working
in the comic book shop. He's now a college literature professor.

-pam

Pam Sorooshian

On 2/26/2009 3:01 PM, diana jenner wrote:
> As someone who really relishes the tactile experience of a book, I found the
> learning curve of listening pretty steep in the beginning. The more I walk
> the dog and knit easy projects, the easier it is to listen to books.

Pulling that out for Meredith (or anybody else) to see that Diana had
the same experience - steep learning curve in getting started listening
to audible books.

I've listened to over 300 audible books - and I now have favorite
narrators. Sometimes I listen to a book that I'd probably never pick up
and read, because I like the narrator so much. I've discovered some good
stuff that I'd have otherwise ignored.

-pam

Debra Rossing

Nope, I wasn't insulted - my comment was specifically designed to draw
out (in your mind) what exactly you meant by 'real' books - because you
seemed to be putting an 'age appropriate' tag on what materials your
child 'should' be reading.

Calvin and Hobbs is awesome! Have you read them? Do you catch all the
literary and cultural references in there? Have you asked which ones are
favorites and why?

> My concern was that he may not move on from these and learn to enjoy
other books as well.
Why is it necessary to "move on" from those? The vet we take our dog to
mentioned once that he rarely reads fiction at all - mostly he reads
informational/professional materials and the occasional biography (like
the recent John Adams and Ben Franklin biographies). Should he "move on"
to learn to enjoy other books as well? The fact is, some people ONLY
read for information and don't read as entertainment. Reading is a tool,
just like a hammer. If I really enjoy making bird houses, and I make
them for friends and family and maybe sell them at craft fairs, should I
"move on" to making tables and not "just" make bird houses because I'm
not expanding how I use my hammer? Sounds silly put that way, doesn't
it? :-) But it's a true analogy - reading is not an end in itself
(though school makes us think it is); it is one among MANY tools for
gathering information about the world around us.

Deb R


**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

We were just discussing books last night on the way in to Starbucks
because DS had his current book (Bionicle Chronicles I think it is, he
finished the Bionicle Legends series a week or two ago). But, there are
only 3 chapters left in this book. We've pulled out a few things we
already own that he might enjoy next - DH has a bunch of novelizations
of Star Trek episodes (with photos of scenes and everything) and we've
got a few other things he might like (some Star Wars "junior" novels as
well as some full size fat novels). I mentioned that if we go to the
library, he can 'try out' a few different books and if he doesn't like
them we just take them right back. Plus, the children's librarian might
be able to point us at similar stuff "If you liked this, you might like
that" (kind of like video stores and Amazon do). Odds are we'll be
hitting the library this weekend or early next week (depending on how
bad the impending nor'easter is - it's going to be partly sunny and mid
50s today and a nor'easter starting Sunday and potentially lasting until
Tuesday - go figure! Ah, New England in the springtime-ish).

Deb R


**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]