Thought this was an interesting tidbit
Deb
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-1748-Salaries-and-Promotions-
20-Big-Salary-Jobs-No-Degree-Required/?
cbsid=20dee4cf1c184d2ca1f947fd3225b0a7-284475371-wj-
6&sc_extcmp=JS_1748_home1&cbRecursionCnt=2&SiteId=cbmsnhp41748&ArticleID
=1748>1=23000
An article listing 20 jobs that don't require a college degree and yet
make $50K or more per year. What they do require, it looks like, is
putting in your time and working your way up - most are supervisory
type positions which means starting out doing the small things and
working up into the bigger things (like managing a mini mart/gas
station - generally starts at minimum wage clerk and you work your way
into more responsiblities by being responsible - my brother did that
when he was in college, started as a clerk in a mini mart and ended up
assistant manager by the time he left after college graduation. Mostly
it took showing up on time ready to work and saying Yes when asked to
take on additional tasks, then doing those tasks in a timely, efficient
manner as instructed - like stocking the milk in the refrigerator).
--Deb
20-Big-Salary-Jobs-No-Degree-Required/?
cbsid=20dee4cf1c184d2ca1f947fd3225b0a7-284475371-wj-
6&sc_extcmp=JS_1748_home1&cbRecursionCnt=2&SiteId=cbmsnhp41748&ArticleID
=1748>1=23000
An article listing 20 jobs that don't require a college degree and yet
make $50K or more per year. What they do require, it looks like, is
putting in your time and working your way up - most are supervisory
type positions which means starting out doing the small things and
working up into the bigger things (like managing a mini mart/gas
station - generally starts at minimum wage clerk and you work your way
into more responsiblities by being responsible - my brother did that
when he was in college, started as a clerk in a mini mart and ended up
assistant manager by the time he left after college graduation. Mostly
it took showing up on time ready to work and saying Yes when asked to
take on additional tasks, then doing those tasks in a timely, efficient
manner as instructed - like stocking the milk in the refrigerator).
--Deb
Dan Lake
It was an interesting list to read through. There may be people currently in
those fields who do not have degrees, but a business or technical degree
would be beneficial for any of the "supervisor" type positions, even if not
strictly "required". If someone is truly passionate about managing a payroll
department or a service station, they would also be interested in most of
the coursework leading to a management or business degree. It would be a
mistake for anyone to take a job which they were not passionate about, and a
2 or 4 year degree is not a burden if you are studying what you love.
I worked as an engineer at a company here in Portland, Oregon for 10 years.
When I started, I had a BS and many of my colleagues had started years
earlier with no degree at all. After 10 years, I had completed a MS in
engineering and everyone without a degree has been let go during various
layoffs and subsequently replaced with engineers holding MS degrees. Only 1
engineer was left with a BS. There has been an inflation of educational
requirements in a lot of fields and where you used to be able to start based
on passion or experience or "who you know", many jobs will require a degree
or certification because many employers use it to differentiate between an
over-abundance of applicants in a tight job market.
If not going to college is a goal or requirement for your life, then you
will certainly have less options available and a more difficult time getting
into some fields, even when a degree is not required. I imagine that
technical trades such as plumbers and electricians would be a good match for
someone who wanted to get right in and manage their own path.
~Dan
those fields who do not have degrees, but a business or technical degree
would be beneficial for any of the "supervisor" type positions, even if not
strictly "required". If someone is truly passionate about managing a payroll
department or a service station, they would also be interested in most of
the coursework leading to a management or business degree. It would be a
mistake for anyone to take a job which they were not passionate about, and a
2 or 4 year degree is not a burden if you are studying what you love.
I worked as an engineer at a company here in Portland, Oregon for 10 years.
When I started, I had a BS and many of my colleagues had started years
earlier with no degree at all. After 10 years, I had completed a MS in
engineering and everyone without a degree has been let go during various
layoffs and subsequently replaced with engineers holding MS degrees. Only 1
engineer was left with a BS. There has been an inflation of educational
requirements in a lot of fields and where you used to be able to start based
on passion or experience or "who you know", many jobs will require a degree
or certification because many employers use it to differentiate between an
over-abundance of applicants in a tight job market.
If not going to college is a goal or requirement for your life, then you
will certainly have less options available and a more difficult time getting
into some fields, even when a degree is not required. I imagine that
technical trades such as plumbers and electricians would be a good match for
someone who wanted to get right in and manage their own path.
~Dan
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Deb <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
> http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-1748-Salaries-and-Promotions-
> 20-Big-Salary-Jobs-No-Degree-Required/?
> cbsid=20dee4cf1c184d2ca1f947fd3225b0a7-284475371-wj-
> 6&sc_extcmp=JS_1748_home1&cbRecursionCnt=2&SiteId=cbmsnhp41748&ArticleID
> =1748>1=23000
>
> An article listing 20 jobs that don't require a college degree and yet
> make $50K or more per year. What they do require, it looks like, is
> putting in your time and working your way up - most are supervisory
> type positions which means starting out doing the small things and
> working up into the bigger things (like managing a mini mart/gas
> station - generally starts at minimum wage clerk and you work your way
> into more responsiblities by being responsible - my brother did that
> when he was in college, started as a clerk in a mini mart and ended up
> assistant manager by the time he left after college graduation. Mostly
> it took showing up on time ready to work and saying Yes when asked to
> take on additional tasks, then doing those tasks in a timely, efficient
> manner as instructed - like stocking the milk in the refrigerator).
>
> --Deb
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~
If not going to college is a goal or requirement for your life, then you
will certainly have less options available and a more difficult time
getting into some fields, even when a degree is not required. ~~
That is a strange way to phrase it; "not going to college is a goal or
requirement".
I don't see a choice of taking other paths a "goal of not going to
college". Rather a conscious choice by some people to pursue their
life passions in a less formal manner. Sure, some people desire
careers or jobs that mostly require degrees but even within a degree
requirement there are ways to avoid the traditional college route if
it doesn't fit for an individual.
I would disagree that opting out of a college path will limit you in
any way. A college degree in my field is useless. As a makeup artist
the very best way to get ahead in the industry is plain-old-vanilla
hard work. Self-motivated individuals do the best in this
field...people willing to practice, learn, watch, trade-for-portfolio
and basically get out there and DO. Sure, a class or workshop can
really help hone a skill but nothing beats passion and motivation.
True in many fields. College can be such a cop-out in my opinion.
Following your passions is important. College can be ONE such tool for
doing that but I hate to see brilliant unschooling minds assume that
is the best option. It is for SOME. Certainly was not for me and many,
many other people I know.
Ren
If not going to college is a goal or requirement for your life, then you
will certainly have less options available and a more difficult time
getting into some fields, even when a degree is not required. ~~
That is a strange way to phrase it; "not going to college is a goal or
requirement".
I don't see a choice of taking other paths a "goal of not going to
college". Rather a conscious choice by some people to pursue their
life passions in a less formal manner. Sure, some people desire
careers or jobs that mostly require degrees but even within a degree
requirement there are ways to avoid the traditional college route if
it doesn't fit for an individual.
I would disagree that opting out of a college path will limit you in
any way. A college degree in my field is useless. As a makeup artist
the very best way to get ahead in the industry is plain-old-vanilla
hard work. Self-motivated individuals do the best in this
field...people willing to practice, learn, watch, trade-for-portfolio
and basically get out there and DO. Sure, a class or workshop can
really help hone a skill but nothing beats passion and motivation.
True in many fields. College can be such a cop-out in my opinion.
Following your passions is important. College can be ONE such tool for
doing that but I hate to see brilliant unschooling minds assume that
is the best option. It is for SOME. Certainly was not for me and many,
many other people I know.
Ren
Meridith Richardson
true, I was an archaeology major, and NEVER used it to secure a job. But, my best friend could not be a sonographer without some sort of education in a formal setting, nor could my other friend be a "brain surgeon" as we call him. so college IS sometimes the only way, but there are definitely many passions that require no school at all! :)
--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
From: Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Thought this was an interesting tidbit
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 5:06 PM
~~
If not going to college is a goal or requirement for your life, then you
will certainly have less options available and a more difficult time
getting into some fields, even when a degree is not required. ~~
That is a strange way to phrase it; "not going to college is a goal or
requirement" .
I don't see a choice of taking other paths a "goal of not going to
college". Rather a conscious choice by some people to pursue their
life passions in a less formal manner. Sure, some people desire
careers or jobs that mostly require degrees but even within a degree
requirement there are ways to avoid the traditional college route if
it doesn't fit for an individual.
I would disagree that opting out of a college path will limit you in
any way. A college degree in my field is useless. As a makeup artist
the very best way to get ahead in the industry is plain-old-vanilla
hard work. Self-motivated individuals do the best in this
field...people willing to practice, learn, watch, trade-for-portfolio
and basically get out there and DO. Sure, a class or workshop can
really help hone a skill but nothing beats passion and motivation.
True in many fields. College can be such a cop-out in my opinion.
Following your passions is important. College can be ONE such tool for
doing that but I hate to see brilliant unschooling minds assume that
is the best option. It is for SOME. Certainly was not for me and many,
many other people I know.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dan Lake
Hi Ren, thanks for the reply. I'm sorry if it sounded like I think everyone
should get a degree, that is certainly not the case. I agree that a goal of
following your dreams is not a goal of not going to college.
I just don't understand the purpose of creating a list of jobs that do not
require a degree unless finding a career without a degree requirement is the
goal. People should follow a life and career path which they are passionate
about and through hard work or study or whatever else is required, follow
their dreams. Someone can either choose from a list like this and pursue one
of those jobs, or follow their passion and deal with the requirements when
they show up. You are correct that in many cases, the requirements are more
of guidelines anyway.
I would never encourage my kids to go to college unless they knew for
certain what they were trying to achieve and why a degree was needed. Some
parents may push their kids into college when nobody has any idea why they
are even there. I went to college to get a Master's degree because I was
excited about computer engineering and was not being exposed to state of the
art tech at the company I was at. The university gave me access to dozens of
new mentors in the industry and along with the new degree, landed me the
position I had long been looking for.
Until relatively recently, anyone could be a doctor with only a desire to
heal the sick or injured and some experience. Now, by law, if medicine is
your calling then college is in your future. It's the same story with
professional engineering. My main point was that I know people doing many of
the jobs on that list in some form or another and they all have degrees. I
do believe that college is a strict requirement for some fields, may be an
enabler to a career in other fields, and totally irrelevant in many other
exciting areas such as being a makeup artist. College may be exciting for
some, a necessary evil for others, or even a formality that is unacceptable
to some.
Follow your dreams..
~Dan
should get a degree, that is certainly not the case. I agree that a goal of
following your dreams is not a goal of not going to college.
I just don't understand the purpose of creating a list of jobs that do not
require a degree unless finding a career without a degree requirement is the
goal. People should follow a life and career path which they are passionate
about and through hard work or study or whatever else is required, follow
their dreams. Someone can either choose from a list like this and pursue one
of those jobs, or follow their passion and deal with the requirements when
they show up. You are correct that in many cases, the requirements are more
of guidelines anyway.
I would never encourage my kids to go to college unless they knew for
certain what they were trying to achieve and why a degree was needed. Some
parents may push their kids into college when nobody has any idea why they
are even there. I went to college to get a Master's degree because I was
excited about computer engineering and was not being exposed to state of the
art tech at the company I was at. The university gave me access to dozens of
new mentors in the industry and along with the new degree, landed me the
position I had long been looking for.
Until relatively recently, anyone could be a doctor with only a desire to
heal the sick or injured and some experience. Now, by law, if medicine is
your calling then college is in your future. It's the same story with
professional engineering. My main point was that I know people doing many of
the jobs on that list in some form or another and they all have degrees. I
do believe that college is a strict requirement for some fields, may be an
enabler to a career in other fields, and totally irrelevant in many other
exciting areas such as being a makeup artist. College may be exciting for
some, a necessary evil for others, or even a formality that is unacceptable
to some.
Follow your dreams..
~Dan
On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> ~~
>
> If not going to college is a goal or requirement for your life, then you
> will certainly have less options available and a more difficult time
> getting into some fields, even when a degree is not required. ~~
>
> That is a strange way to phrase it; "not going to college is a goal or
> requirement".
> I don't see a choice of taking other paths a "goal of not going to
> college". Rather a conscious choice by some people to pursue their
> life passions in a less formal manner. Sure, some people desire
> careers or jobs that mostly require degrees but even within a degree
> requirement there are ways to avoid the traditional college route if
> it doesn't fit for an individual.
>
> I would disagree that opting out of a college path will limit you in
> any way. A college degree in my field is useless. As a makeup artist
> the very best way to get ahead in the industry is plain-old-vanilla
> hard work. Self-motivated individuals do the best in this
> field...people willing to practice, learn, watch, trade-for-portfolio
> and basically get out there and DO. Sure, a class or workshop can
> really help hone a skill but nothing beats passion and motivation.
>
> True in many fields. College can be such a cop-out in my opinion.
> Following your passions is important. College can be ONE such tool for
> doing that but I hate to see brilliant unschooling minds assume that
> is the best option. It is for SOME. Certainly was not for me and many,
> many other people I know.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Vickisue Gray
Nice list but a little miss leading. For Air Traffic Controller, currently, you need four degree unless you join the National Guard.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 5, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Dan Lake wrote:
their kids if they don't make them go to college.
There is a strong belief in the US that without a degree you are
severely limited in jobs and pay.
While there are certainly jobs that require a degree, a degree is not
a guarantee of a good paying job and a good paying job doesn't
necessarily require a degree.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I just don't understand the purpose of creating a list of jobs thatBecause it helps parents let go of the fear that they're harming
> do not
> require a degree unless finding a career without a degree
> requirement is the
> goal.
their kids if they don't make them go to college.
There is a strong belief in the US that without a degree you are
severely limited in jobs and pay.
While there are certainly jobs that require a degree, a degree is not
a guarantee of a good paying job and a good paying job doesn't
necessarily require a degree.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Professional Parenting
The beleif that everyone needs a degree is very strong here in Canada too. It's very hard for a parent to let go of that, when evidence (I'm speaking only from personal experience) rears it's ugly head around every day that a degree opens up a lot more choices. My colleague has many years of parent education experience, three launched children and yet, because she doesn't have a degree in anything (from science to nursing) she can't get a job teaching parenting for our health department. That is the basic minimum hiring standards. I know that twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a hefty dose of inititive could get many people careers in their chosen fields, but I can't say the same thing now days. Sorry to be so pessimistic. I want to beleive that hard work and initiative will get anyone where they want to go, but I see so much evidence to the contrary, I can't pass that on to my kids.
Still, I fully realize that I can't make my kids want it.
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting, Family and Relationship Expert, Speaker (Professional Member of CAPS) and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
Still, I fully realize that I can't make my kids want it.
Judy Arnall, Peaceful Parenting, Family and Relationship Expert, Speaker (Professional Member of CAPS) and Author of "Discipline Without Distress: 135 tools for raising caring, responsible children without time-out, spanking, punishment or bribery" www.professionalparenting.ca Tele: (403) 714-6766 Email jarnall@... "Peace In The World Begins In The Home"
----- Original Message -----
From: Joyce Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Thought this was an interesting tidbit
On Jan 5, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Dan Lake wrote:
> I just don't understand the purpose of creating a list of jobs that
> do not
> require a degree unless finding a career without a degree
> requirement is the
> goal.
Because it helps parents let go of the fear that they're harming
their kids if they don't make them go to college.
There is a strong belief in the US that without a degree you are
severely limited in jobs and pay.
While there are certainly jobs that require a degree, a degree is not
a guarantee of a good paying job and a good paying job doesn't
necessarily require a degree.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 6, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Professional Parenting wrote:
There are many jobs that require a degree and kids shouldn't be
heading off to life outside of the home not knowing that!
But not having a degree does not limit someone to cashier at the
grocery store or greeter at WalMart. Kids shouldn't be leaving the
house thinking that all decent doors are closed because they don't
have a degree. I'd bet there are plenty of schooled kids who opted
not to go to college or who dropped out of high school who have
heard they're now headed no where and they believe that and don't
even try. But it isn't true.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I know that twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a heftyNo one *is* saying anyone can get any job without a degree.
> dose of inititive could get many people careers in their chosen
> fields, but I can't say the same thing now days.
There are many jobs that require a degree and kids shouldn't be
heading off to life outside of the home not knowing that!
But not having a degree does not limit someone to cashier at the
grocery store or greeter at WalMart. Kids shouldn't be leaving the
house thinking that all decent doors are closed because they don't
have a degree. I'd bet there are plenty of schooled kids who opted
not to go to college or who dropped out of high school who have
heard they're now headed no where and they believe that and don't
even try. But it isn't true.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dan Lake
I would recommend to my kids that they figure out what they love doing, and
find a way to get paid for doing exactly that. They ~may~ choose to modify
what they are doing only enough to balance income with the love for what
they are doing. They should stay as close to their passions as possible. If
what interests them requires more knowledge, experience, training, or even a
certificate or degree to get paid for it, then I don't think they would shy
away from it.
~Dan
find a way to get paid for doing exactly that. They ~may~ choose to modify
what they are doing only enough to balance income with the love for what
they are doing. They should stay as close to their passions as possible. If
what interests them requires more knowledge, experience, training, or even a
certificate or degree to get paid for it, then I don't think they would shy
away from it.
~Dan
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:
>
> On Jan 6, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Professional Parenting wrote:
>
> > I know that twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a hefty
> > dose of inititive could get many people careers in their chosen
> > fields, but I can't say the same thing now days.
>
> No one *is* saying anyone can get any job without a degree.
>
> There are many jobs that require a degree and kids shouldn't be
> heading off to life outside of the home not knowing that!
>
> But not having a degree does not limit someone to cashier at the
> grocery store or greeter at WalMart. Kids shouldn't be leaving the
> house thinking that all decent doors are closed because they don't
> have a degree. I'd bet there are plenty of schooled kids who opted
> not to go to college or who dropped out of high school who have
> heard they're now headed no where and they believe that and don't
> even try. But it isn't true.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pclatha
Excellent point, Joyce. Or there are plenty of kids in college, who
wouldn't be if they knew about these options.
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
wouldn't be if they knew about these options.
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>hefty
>
> On Jan 6, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Professional Parenting wrote:
>
> > I know that twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a
> > dose of inititive could get many people careers in their chosenthe
> > fields, but I can't say the same thing now days.
>
> No one *is* saying anyone can get any job without a degree.
>
> There are many jobs that require a degree and kids shouldn't be
> heading off to life outside of the home not knowing that!
>
> But not having a degree does not limit someone to cashier at the
> grocery store or greeter at WalMart. Kids shouldn't be leaving
> house thinking that all decent doors are closed because theydon't
> have a degree. I'd bet there are plenty of schooled kids whoopted
> not to go to college or who dropped out of high school who have
> heard they're now headed no where and they believe that and don't
> even try. But it isn't true.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Meredith
--- In [email protected], "Dan Lake" <danthedad@...>
wrote:
figuring out what they love doing! Its an important shift in
thinking.
That being said, I try not to put too much influence on the idea
that "you could make money doing this." Both my kids think about ways
to make money, and they think about things they love to do - and they
both get the idea that sometimes those are two different things. Ray
(at 15) has quite a bit of work experience and much of it is in an
area that he doesn't necessarily love - agriculture and landscaping -
but he's content to do those things to fund his passions. He *knows*
people who make a living with one of his passions - juggling fire -
but he doesn't really want to talk about how He could do that, at
least not right now. Right now he wants to play with fire!
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
wrote:
>doing, and
> I would recommend to my kids that they figure out what they love
> find a way to get paid for doing exactly that.I'd like to suggest a slight shift in wording: I'd Support my kids in
figuring out what they love doing! Its an important shift in
thinking.
That being said, I try not to put too much influence on the idea
that "you could make money doing this." Both my kids think about ways
to make money, and they think about things they love to do - and they
both get the idea that sometimes those are two different things. Ray
(at 15) has quite a bit of work experience and much of it is in an
area that he doesn't necessarily love - agriculture and landscaping -
but he's content to do those things to fund his passions. He *knows*
people who make a living with one of his passions - juggling fire -
but he doesn't really want to talk about how He could do that, at
least not right now. Right now he wants to play with fire!
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Debra Rossing
> Ray (at 15) has quite a bit of work experience and much of it is in anarea that he doesn't necessarily love - agriculture and landscaping -
but he's content to do those things to fund his passions
A friend of ours, homeschooled for the majority of his minority (LOL)
worked as a cashier at a mini mart for a few years - very not his
passion. As he was naturally a night owl, he could work the quieter late
night shifts (with a shift differential so a little bit extra pay). That
left him lots of thinking space and daylight hours (late afternoons and
early evenings) to pursue his passion - cartooning. It also was a
flexible enough type job that he could take a few days off to go to
trade shows and expos related to cartooning/art/etc. He's now making
money with his twin passions - music and drawing (www.toddbot.com is his
website - the bio section gives some idea of the things he's worked
on/is working on, other sections you can see some of his work)
---Deb R
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katherinesaund
A good friend recently told me about a book she read by a homeschooled
young man - I'll try to find the details. He has published a book on
how he got an accredited college degree by combining classes, life
experience, internships and job experience in something like 2 years for
around $5,000! There are so many ways to pursue "education" in our
world today - it amazes me! If I find the title of the book, I'll post
it!
Kate
young man - I'll try to find the details. He has published a book on
how he got an accredited college degree by combining classes, life
experience, internships and job experience in something like 2 years for
around $5,000! There are so many ways to pursue "education" in our
world today - it amazes me! If I find the title of the book, I'll post
it!
Kate
--- In [email protected], "pclatha" <pclatha@...> wrote:
>
> Excellent point, Joyce. Or there are plenty of kids in college, who
> wouldn't be if they knew about these options.
>
> --- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
> jfetteroll@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jan 6, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Professional Parenting wrote:
> >
> > > I know that twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a
> hefty
> > > dose of inititive could get many people careers in their chosen
> > > fields, but I can't say the same thing now days.
> >
> > No one *is* saying anyone can get any job without a degree.
> >
> > There are many jobs that require a degree and kids shouldn't be
> > heading off to life outside of the home not knowing that!
> >
> > But not having a degree does not limit someone to cashier at the
> > grocery store or greeter at WalMart. Kids shouldn't be leaving
> the
> > house thinking that all decent doors are closed because they
> don't
> > have a degree. I'd bet there are plenty of schooled kids who
> opted
> > not to go to college or who dropped out of high school who have
> > heard they're now headed no where and they believe that and don't
> > even try. But it isn't true.
> >
> > Joyce
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KAREN RAK
Deb,
Thanks for sharing this.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for sharing this.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sybelle
I'd love to know the title/writer of that book!
Sybelle
--- In [email protected], "katherinesaund"
<ksaund@...> wrote:
Sybelle
--- In [email protected], "katherinesaund"
<ksaund@...> wrote:
>homeschooled
>
> A good friend recently told me about a book she read by a
> young man - I'll try to find the details. He has published a bookon
> how he got an accredited college degree by combining classes, lifeyears for
> experience, internships and job experience in something like 2
> around $5,000! There are so many ways to pursue "education" in ourpost
> world today - it amazes me! If I find the title of the book, I'll
> it!wrote:
>
> Kate
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "pclatha" <pclatha@>
> >who
> > Excellent point, Joyce. Or there are plenty of kids in college,
> > wouldn't be if they knew about these options.chosen
> >
> > --- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
> > jfetteroll@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 6, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Professional Parenting wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know that twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a
> > hefty
> > > > dose of inititive could get many people careers in their
> > > > fields, but I can't say the same thing now days.don't
> > >
> > > No one *is* saying anyone can get any job without a degree.
> > >
> > > There are many jobs that require a degree and kids shouldn't be
> > > heading off to life outside of the home not knowing that!
> > >
> > > But not having a degree does not limit someone to cashier at the
> > > grocery store or greeter at WalMart. Kids shouldn't be leaving
> > the
> > > house thinking that all decent doors are closed because they
> > don't
> > > have a degree. I'd bet there are plenty of schooled kids who
> > opted
> > > not to go to college or who dropped out of high school who have
> > > heard they're now headed no where and they believe that and
> > > even try. But it isn't true.
> > >
> > > Joyce
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: Professional Parenting <jarnall@...>
The beleif that everyone needs a degree is very strong here in Canada too. It's
very hard for a parent to let go of that, when evidence (I'm speaking only from
personal experience) rears it's ugly head around every day that a degree opens
up a lot more choices. My colleague has many years of parent education
experience, three launched children and yet, because she doesn't have a degree
in anything (from science to nursing) she can't get a job teaching parenting for
our health department. That is the basic minimum hiring standards.
-=-=-=-=-
And someone needs a job in the health department to help parents?
Here's where I start questioning. OK---so what IS "parent education experience"? Why would somebody need a degree to "teach" it? What's stopping her from getting a degree? Why can't she start her own "parenting" business, if that's what she wants to do? What other options are there? I have dozens of other questions---and I really don't want the answers. It's just that such a "position" could be looked at from *dozens* of different angles, but it seems she's only looking at one.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I know that
twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a hefty dose of inititive could get
many people careers in their chosen fields, but I can't say the same thing now
days.
-=-=-=-
Twenty years ago? That sounds twisted20to me.
I'd say, *maybe*....50 years ago. Seventy-five years ago, for SURE! But 50 years ago, a *college* diploma was a sure fire trip to easy street! Twenty years ago, it was already considered a necessity to have a college degree---and to be a *real* success, you needed a master's---THAT was your ticket out! Ten years ago, a PhD was the only way to BE somebody.
The difference between the 1950s and the 2000s is NOW college tuition is ASTRONOMICAL! A college student today will pay (I looked it up) about $25,000 in tuition alone for four years at a state college, and four times that for a private school---not including books and room & board! A graduate will spend *years* covering student loans if he chooses *that* route. Starting OUT with debt? Crazy! ANd there's NO guarantee that a job will be waiting!
For $120,000 (what it would cost to send Cameron four years to (one of <g>) my alma mater(s), a small private college in SC), I could set him up in a business of his choosing. He would be MAKING money rather than paying off debt. He wouldn't be looking for an entry-level job; he would OWN the business; he would BE the boss. It's just that I can think of waaay better ways to spend Ben's money <g>
If he *needed* a degree to get what he wants. I would do that too. But he doesn't. Nor do *most* college students---they're just jumping through the hoops without thinking. The reason businesses put the degree requirement on their "basic minimum" for=2
0hiring is that they need *some* way to weed out candidates. There's often a loophole. You may have to work to find it though. Volunteering is a great way to get a foot in the door---especially if you are already good at what you do. Many businesses will still help pay to help you get a degree if it will benefit *them*. But they have to know you first.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sorry to be so pessimistic. I want to beleive that hard work and initiative will get anyone
where they want to go, but I see so much evidence to the contrary, I can't pass that on to my
kids.
-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If you believe you can or believe you can't, you are right.
Attitude is everything. I've owned nine businesses--and am working on the tenth. No degree.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Professional Parenting <jarnall@...>
The beleif that everyone needs a degree is very strong here in Canada too. It's
very hard for a parent to let go of that, when evidence (I'm speaking only from
personal experience) rears it's ugly head around every day that a degree opens
up a lot more choices. My colleague has many years of parent education
experience, three launched children and yet, because she doesn't have a degree
in anything (from science to nursing) she can't get a job teaching parenting for
our health department. That is the basic minimum hiring standards.
-=-=-=-=-
And someone needs a job in the health department to help parents?
Here's where I start questioning. OK---so what IS "parent education experience"? Why would somebody need a degree to "teach" it? What's stopping her from getting a degree? Why can't she start her own "parenting" business, if that's what she wants to do? What other options are there? I have dozens of other questions---and I really don't want the answers. It's just that such a "position" could be looked at from *dozens* of different angles, but it seems she's only looking at one.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I know that
twenty years ago, a high school diploma and a hefty dose of inititive could get
many people careers in their chosen fields, but I can't say the same thing now
days.
-=-=-=-
Twenty years ago? That sounds twisted20to me.
I'd say, *maybe*....50 years ago. Seventy-five years ago, for SURE! But 50 years ago, a *college* diploma was a sure fire trip to easy street! Twenty years ago, it was already considered a necessity to have a college degree---and to be a *real* success, you needed a master's---THAT was your ticket out! Ten years ago, a PhD was the only way to BE somebody.
The difference between the 1950s and the 2000s is NOW college tuition is ASTRONOMICAL! A college student today will pay (I looked it up) about $25,000 in tuition alone for four years at a state college, and four times that for a private school---not including books and room & board! A graduate will spend *years* covering student loans if he chooses *that* route. Starting OUT with debt? Crazy! ANd there's NO guarantee that a job will be waiting!
For $120,000 (what it would cost to send Cameron four years to (one of <g>) my alma mater(s), a small private college in SC), I could set him up in a business of his choosing. He would be MAKING money rather than paying off debt. He wouldn't be looking for an entry-level job; he would OWN the business; he would BE the boss. It's just that I can think of waaay better ways to spend Ben's money <g>
If he *needed* a degree to get what he wants. I would do that too. But he doesn't. Nor do *most* college students---they're just jumping through the hoops without thinking. The reason businesses put the degree requirement on their "basic minimum" for=2
0hiring is that they need *some* way to weed out candidates. There's often a loophole. You may have to work to find it though. Volunteering is a great way to get a foot in the door---especially if you are already good at what you do. Many businesses will still help pay to help you get a degree if it will benefit *them*. But they have to know you first.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sorry to be so pessimistic. I want to beleive that hard work and initiative will get anyone
where they want to go, but I see so much evidence to the contrary, I can't pass that on to my
kids.
-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If you believe you can or believe you can't, you are right.
Attitude is everything. I've owned nine businesses--and am working on the tenth. No degree.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]