Linda

Hi
I first came across the term "Unschooling" a some years ago. I didn't
understand it, I thought all homeschooling was unschooling. The idea
of haveing "school at home" sounded a little strange to me. Why
homeschool if you wish to mimik school? Well, at this point I started
to learn more about homeschool in general, much thanks to friends
that homeschooled. I learned that homeschool-onlinegroups are great
sources of ideas ;-)

This year I've followed a few unschooling groups to learn more. It's
still not clear as it seems to be more different views on what it is.
This list is acually the first I came across the term "radical
unschoolers".


We have a "crafts room" with a lot of materials and books for ideas.
The kids do not HAVE to use it, but 2 of them do. The third hardly
ever do crafts at all. Totally unschooling, right? But if I only
provide beads with letters and numbers on, would that still be
unschooling?

The oldest three had to choose pattern and fabric to a clothing of
their choice and late sew tem together. One has sewn more after this,
another has expressed interest in doing more. Not unschooling in the
beginning, but later, right?

If I were to give my dd a diary for christmas (because I want her to
write more) and my ds a calendar (because I want him to practic
numbers and time), but I don't make them use them - is that
unschooling?

Yours
Linda
Mama to four

Joyce Fetteroll

On Dec 28, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Linda wrote:

> It's
> still not clear as it seems to be more different views on what it is.

Yes, people have stretched the term unschooling to encompass a lot of
different practices. The academic part on this list is what John Holt
described.

> But if I only
> provide beads with letters and numbers on, would that still be
> unschooling?

The intent behind an action is what makes something fit with
unschooling or not.

If a child only liked to bead letters and numbers and rejected
anything else, then it would be unschooling to provide just letters
and numbers.

Just like if a child liked to bead only cats and rejected anything
else, it would be unschooling to provide just cats.

If the intent is to for a parent to use a child's interest to get the
child to learn something the parent thinks is important, then that's
veering away from trusting the child and away from unschooling.

> The oldest three had to choose pattern and fabric to a clothing of
> their choice and late sew tem together. One has sewn more after this,
> another has expressed interest in doing more. Not unschooling in the
> beginning, but later, right?

Correct.

I would examine the "had to". In truth you mean you made them. Using
"had to" lets parents mentally off the responsibility hook. It's like
there's some outside force we can blame our actions on. It helps to
see our actions objectively.

> If I were to give my dd a diary for christmas (because I want her to
> write more) and my ds a calendar (because I want him to practic
> numbers and time), but I don't make them use them - is that
> unschooling?

Maybe. Depends.

For someone who is consciously trying to change their thinking it's
good to "fake it until you make it". But it's not possible to just
fake it. Kids have good bull cookie detectors. They know when we have
a hidden agenda. It's really not possible to cling to a need for a
child to write without that showing. You'll unconsciously project
approval when the kids are doing something that looks like school
learning and unconsciously projecting disapproval when they choose
what feels to you like pure entertainment like video games and so forth.

It's good to supply lots of opportunities, including some things a
school oriented parent might choose. Diaries and calendars are useful
things to strew. It's the mental state of the mom that determines
whether it's unschooling or not.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Linda

--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> It's good to supply lots of opportunities, including some things a
> school oriented parent might choose. Diaries and calendars are
useful
> things to strew. It's the mental state of the mom that determines
> whether it's unschooling or not.
>
> Joyce

Thanks Joyce for helping me to clear things up for me. If I as a parent
plan my kids learning that is not unschooling.
Is there a term for the kind of homeschooling where a parent HAS a
hidden agenda, but won't force the children to do certain stuff?

yours
Linda

Kelly Lovejoy

Hmm..."Sneaky Homeschooling"? 



Kind of like The Sneaky Chef who tries to get unsuspecting children to eat broccoli and zucchini?




I'm sure both work well for a while; but as soon as the child figures out the evil plan, the trust between the parent and child is lost. 




It would take LOTS of time and "non-sneakiness" (honesty?) to repair such damage and regain that trust.






~Kelly




-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <hemma@...>



Thanks Joyce for helping me to clear things up for me. If I as a parent 

plan my kids learning that is not unschooling.

Is there a term for the kind of homeschooling where a parent HAS a
hidden agenda, but won't force the children to do certain stuff?











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lovejoy

Kelly Lovejoy
http://www.SchoolsOutSupport.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Linda <hemma@...>


This year I've followed a few unschooling groups to learn more. It's
still not clear as it seems to be more different views on what it is.
This list is acually the first I came across the term "radical
unschoolers".

-=-=-=-=

REALLY? Which other groups are you on? <g>

-=-=-=-=-

We have a "crafts room" with a lot of materials and books for ideas.
The kids do not HAVE to use it, but 2 of them do. The third hardly
ever do crafts at all. Totally unschooling, right? But if I only
provide beads with letters and numbers on, would that still be
unschooling?

-=-=-=

Why in the world would you choose to do that? That could inhibit creativity. Is that your goal? 


-=-=-=-=-=-


The oldest three had to choose pattern and fabric to a clothing of
their choice and late sew tem together. One has sewn more after this,
another has expressed interest in doing more. Not unschooling in the
beginning, but later, right?

-=-=-=-

I'd say "not at all"---they *had* to?

-=-=-=-=-=-



If I were to give my dd a diary for christmas (because I want her to
write more) and my ds a calendar (because I want him to practic
numbers and time), but I don't make them use them - is that
unschooling? 


-=-=-==-=-

No---because you have a hidden agenda. Both my boys got calendars (with cool photos=2
0of something they love) and journals for Christmas. But not for any other reason than they wanted them. Isn't THAT the reason for a gift? Why are you gifting with an agenda?

Unschooling has a lot to do with the motivation behind the parents' actions. If you choose to go to the museum with the idea that the children will learn something, it's not unschooling. If you go because there's something there that might inspire you child or tickle his fancy---or even something that they may never get the opportunity to see again---THAT's unschooling.

My family is going to the Pompeii exhibit at Discovery Place in Charlotte this coming weekend. These are the last days of the exhibit in the US. I'd hate for any of us to miss such an opportunity. Duncan (12) will more than likely fly through the exhibit while the rest of us us slowly read most of the signs. I'm sure he'll enjoy the volcano stuff. But he likes Discovery Place---it's fun. We'll all get something out of the trip. 

Do you bake cookies so that the kids will learn fractions? Or do you bake cookies to have something really yummy? Fractions should be the by-product. Learning about Pompeii will be our by-product (or maybe something completely different---who can know?), but sharing the day together is the goal.






~Kelly














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]