On the verge of signing up for Early Childhood Program
Deborah
I'm writing to ask for some... for a mental "boost," support,
guidance, direction, whatever. I am a stay-at-home-with-my-babies
mother to two lovely boys. My "big boy" will be 4 years old in a
month and my "baby" will be 18 months old on the same day. I feel
like I'm doing NOTHING positive for either of them and am
considering signing up my big boy for the Early Childhood Program at
the University in our (tiny) town. Mostly because I am afraid that
the only behavior he's seeing is my overwhelmed-momma ranting.
Seems to me he is extremely NASTY, and because he sees ME being
nasty as I"m feeling isolated (moved here this past Jan and have no
real "friends"), overwhelmed (bigger house means bigger mess),
unappreciated (by my husband for a variety of reasons), and unable
to divide my time and attention properly between two darling
children. Big boy is also prone to "fly off the handle" (gee,
wonder where he saw that?), yelling (so I look in the mirror), and
bargaining with "us" parents (my husband is responsible for that
one). I feel unable to change without SOMEBODY to come over and...
not "watch" me, but to just HELP me a little, or to do some hand-
holding. Only people I know are through husband's job - nice enough
people, but they keep suggesting that my life would be easier if I'd
wean my 18 month old and send the bigger boy to preschool. I
haven't mentioned that the big boy still occasionally nurses
for "love" as he says. Any of you live near Joplin, Missouri? I
wish I could get him into a little "program" maybe a couple hours,
twice a week... But I'm kinda like the person screaming that
they're going to jump from the ledge and never does, when it comes
to "sending him" or "leaving him" anywhere. We just recently "left
him" with somebody for the first time in those 4 years earlier this
month on our wedding anniversary - and ended up driving to the store
and home. I just can't completely digest the idea of having a set
schedule for "dropping" him off somewhere. And I have TONS of
supplies to play with for learning at home, I just feel so...
overwhelmed is the only word I can give. If a hostile "outsider"
was to observe my mothering / educating, they'd think I was sleeping
late with them, feeding them too much french toast with powdered
sugar and sharp cheddar (not at the same time) and scrambling around
at the last minute to get the house barely organized (note: not
clean) before my husband comes home. Yeah, okay. Sure, I guess.
And up until now, it's been FABULOUSLY successful in as much as both
of my boys are borderline geniuses. (I'm showing off a little.) My
4 year-old (can I just call him that?) has a fantastic vocabulary,
outrageously keen problem-solving skills, amazing empathy, and a
flair for the dramatic. BUT... he's also beginnig to "do" EVERY
SINGLE ONE OF MY NEGATIVE BEHAVIORS. Squared. Okay, I'm tired and
I"m rambling a little. My 18 month old doesn't sleep longer than 1
hour and 40 minutes. I haven't slept properly in about 4 years. I
WANT to live what I think - what I only BARELY understand - is,
might be, the unschooling lifestyle. But I'm struggling. You each
had to "start" somewhere. Can you just throw me a rope...
Deborah
wife since 1999,
mother since 2004, then again in 2007
resident of missouri since 2008, arizona from 2007-2008,
and illinois from 2006-2007 and during childhood.
guidance, direction, whatever. I am a stay-at-home-with-my-babies
mother to two lovely boys. My "big boy" will be 4 years old in a
month and my "baby" will be 18 months old on the same day. I feel
like I'm doing NOTHING positive for either of them and am
considering signing up my big boy for the Early Childhood Program at
the University in our (tiny) town. Mostly because I am afraid that
the only behavior he's seeing is my overwhelmed-momma ranting.
Seems to me he is extremely NASTY, and because he sees ME being
nasty as I"m feeling isolated (moved here this past Jan and have no
real "friends"), overwhelmed (bigger house means bigger mess),
unappreciated (by my husband for a variety of reasons), and unable
to divide my time and attention properly between two darling
children. Big boy is also prone to "fly off the handle" (gee,
wonder where he saw that?), yelling (so I look in the mirror), and
bargaining with "us" parents (my husband is responsible for that
one). I feel unable to change without SOMEBODY to come over and...
not "watch" me, but to just HELP me a little, or to do some hand-
holding. Only people I know are through husband's job - nice enough
people, but they keep suggesting that my life would be easier if I'd
wean my 18 month old and send the bigger boy to preschool. I
haven't mentioned that the big boy still occasionally nurses
for "love" as he says. Any of you live near Joplin, Missouri? I
wish I could get him into a little "program" maybe a couple hours,
twice a week... But I'm kinda like the person screaming that
they're going to jump from the ledge and never does, when it comes
to "sending him" or "leaving him" anywhere. We just recently "left
him" with somebody for the first time in those 4 years earlier this
month on our wedding anniversary - and ended up driving to the store
and home. I just can't completely digest the idea of having a set
schedule for "dropping" him off somewhere. And I have TONS of
supplies to play with for learning at home, I just feel so...
overwhelmed is the only word I can give. If a hostile "outsider"
was to observe my mothering / educating, they'd think I was sleeping
late with them, feeding them too much french toast with powdered
sugar and sharp cheddar (not at the same time) and scrambling around
at the last minute to get the house barely organized (note: not
clean) before my husband comes home. Yeah, okay. Sure, I guess.
And up until now, it's been FABULOUSLY successful in as much as both
of my boys are borderline geniuses. (I'm showing off a little.) My
4 year-old (can I just call him that?) has a fantastic vocabulary,
outrageously keen problem-solving skills, amazing empathy, and a
flair for the dramatic. BUT... he's also beginnig to "do" EVERY
SINGLE ONE OF MY NEGATIVE BEHAVIORS. Squared. Okay, I'm tired and
I"m rambling a little. My 18 month old doesn't sleep longer than 1
hour and 40 minutes. I haven't slept properly in about 4 years. I
WANT to live what I think - what I only BARELY understand - is,
might be, the unschooling lifestyle. But I'm struggling. You each
had to "start" somewhere. Can you just throw me a rope...
Deborah
wife since 1999,
mother since 2004, then again in 2007
resident of missouri since 2008, arizona from 2007-2008,
and illinois from 2006-2007 and during childhood.
Erin
Deborah,
I'm incredibly new to the unschooling way of life, so I'm not sure
how much help I'll be. I am having to take a look at myself and
realize that the children are behaving the way they do because of the
way I have behaved for all of their lives (mine are 6, 9, 10, 12, 14,
and 14...although the 12yo and one 14yo are my step-sons). It is
very hard to undo what "has been" for so long, but I KNOW it's
possible. Your boys are so very young and it will honestly be SO
worth it for you to make the changes you need to make in order to
bring them up in a happy home.
I know a lot of it is going to be changing the way you think about
things. I am trying to do lots of reading and I have heard great
things about Rue Kream's book (although now I can't remember what
it's called). You also need to be patient with yourself! If you
mess up, acknowledge it and let it go...try to think of it as a
stepping stone on your journey to being the mom you want to be.
I'm trying to focus on simply making sure my kids are treated in a
way that shows them that they are loved, respected, and considered
incredibly important. My kids have not always felt safe voicing
their thoughts or opinions or needs. They are still learning to
trust that I really do care about their needs, thoughts, desires, and
feelings. When they act in a way that makes me want to return to my
old ways of parenting (sending them to their room, griping at them,
nagging) I attempt to take a deep breath and remember that they are
doing the best the can in the situation. I try to make sure I don't
take anything personally and I make sure that they know that no
matter what they say or do...I will love them and do whatever I can
to meet their needs with them.
I am NOT perfect and I make mistakes all the time, but I am learning
to let the mistakes be a learning situation rather than a stumbling
block. I don't beat myself up! I acknowledge what I've done wrong,
apologize genuinely (if needed), and I pack it away in my brain as a
learning experience that is taking me closer to the mom I am becoming.
I was once married to a man that made me feel less than whole and
made me feel incredibly taken advantage of and drained of all hope.
I think the best thing to do is make sure he understands how you're
feeling. It's also really crucial that you are willing to listen to
him and his needs. Just like with the kids, try to not let the
things he does or says hurt you in such a personal way (much easier
said than done). Try to remember that he really is doing the best he
can with what he knows how to do...and love him through his "ugly
behavior" too. I also have to remind myself that it is not my job to
change someone else...but it is my job to surround myself with those
that treat me in a way that I deserve to be treated. Along with that-
-the people I surround myself with also deserve to be treated in a
loving, caring, respectful way.
SO, my best suggestion is to read! I'm sure more experienced
unschoolers here will have lots of suggestions. These are some sites
I'm using to help me feed my need for knowledge surrounding
unschooling--
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://www.enjoyparenting.com/
http://www.naturalchild.com/
http://familyrun.ning.com
I'm incredibly new to the unschooling way of life, so I'm not sure
how much help I'll be. I am having to take a look at myself and
realize that the children are behaving the way they do because of the
way I have behaved for all of their lives (mine are 6, 9, 10, 12, 14,
and 14...although the 12yo and one 14yo are my step-sons). It is
very hard to undo what "has been" for so long, but I KNOW it's
possible. Your boys are so very young and it will honestly be SO
worth it for you to make the changes you need to make in order to
bring them up in a happy home.
I know a lot of it is going to be changing the way you think about
things. I am trying to do lots of reading and I have heard great
things about Rue Kream's book (although now I can't remember what
it's called). You also need to be patient with yourself! If you
mess up, acknowledge it and let it go...try to think of it as a
stepping stone on your journey to being the mom you want to be.
I'm trying to focus on simply making sure my kids are treated in a
way that shows them that they are loved, respected, and considered
incredibly important. My kids have not always felt safe voicing
their thoughts or opinions or needs. They are still learning to
trust that I really do care about their needs, thoughts, desires, and
feelings. When they act in a way that makes me want to return to my
old ways of parenting (sending them to their room, griping at them,
nagging) I attempt to take a deep breath and remember that they are
doing the best the can in the situation. I try to make sure I don't
take anything personally and I make sure that they know that no
matter what they say or do...I will love them and do whatever I can
to meet their needs with them.
I am NOT perfect and I make mistakes all the time, but I am learning
to let the mistakes be a learning situation rather than a stumbling
block. I don't beat myself up! I acknowledge what I've done wrong,
apologize genuinely (if needed), and I pack it away in my brain as a
learning experience that is taking me closer to the mom I am becoming.
I was once married to a man that made me feel less than whole and
made me feel incredibly taken advantage of and drained of all hope.
I think the best thing to do is make sure he understands how you're
feeling. It's also really crucial that you are willing to listen to
him and his needs. Just like with the kids, try to not let the
things he does or says hurt you in such a personal way (much easier
said than done). Try to remember that he really is doing the best he
can with what he knows how to do...and love him through his "ugly
behavior" too. I also have to remind myself that it is not my job to
change someone else...but it is my job to surround myself with those
that treat me in a way that I deserve to be treated. Along with that-
-the people I surround myself with also deserve to be treated in a
loving, caring, respectful way.
SO, my best suggestion is to read! I'm sure more experienced
unschoolers here will have lots of suggestions. These are some sites
I'm using to help me feed my need for knowledge surrounding
unschooling--
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://www.enjoyparenting.com/
http://www.naturalchild.com/
http://familyrun.ning.com
julie
Deborah
I am not a super active member of this group, as it has only been since
March that I began to see unschooling as the path that I want to follow.
I do notice at times, that what I *want* to be does not always mesh
with what I *am* at the time.
I think that you taking notice of your feelings is great. But, let me
reassure you, most Mom's have felt that way at one point of another.
Alot of people on this list have older children, and are not where you
are. My daughter is 4, my son will be 3 in February. I know that each
day I am less of a parent than I want to be. But I keep trying, and ya
know, the kids, they keep giving you a second chance. THey do not
demand perfection from you.
I can not imagine doing it alone in a new city... I havve other things
on my plate, but I do know that it is hard, it is very hard!!!!
I have several things that help me through the day...
1) Every morning, I recieve, via email THE DAILY GROVE.
these are inspirational and thought producing tidbits by Scott Noelle.
Sign up at www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove
2) I also subscribe to TUT www.tut.com i get a daily inspirational
email about the peace that is around me and the things i can attain
with peaceful thoughts.
3) I admit to myself and my children that I am not perfect. I don't
strive for perfection, and I do not measure myself against it. I do
the best I can. That's all I can do.
I also have an 18 and 17 year old, whose childhood was much differnt
than the little ones I am now raising. Bizarrely enough, although I
was only 21 at the time, and made MANY,MANY mistakes- my girls remember
none of them.
They remember I was there with them-not that I at times hated being
there with them.
They remember the stories I read, not the sarcastic statements I
sometimes made.
They remember the kisses and cuddles not the yelling and screaming.
I am sure that there are some days that if DSS were to walk in my home
they would surely take my children away...except that my kids know I am
trying my best..just as I know they are.
It does get easier, they will change. They will not always need you as
much as they do now...
And finally say to yourself, over and over again..."THEY ARE NOT DOING
THIS TO MAKE ME UPSET" i tell my dh that all the time.. they are just
little, they love you...all will be ok...hang on tight, it is a quick
ride.
Blessings
Julie
I am not a super active member of this group, as it has only been since
March that I began to see unschooling as the path that I want to follow.
I do notice at times, that what I *want* to be does not always mesh
with what I *am* at the time.
I think that you taking notice of your feelings is great. But, let me
reassure you, most Mom's have felt that way at one point of another.
Alot of people on this list have older children, and are not where you
are. My daughter is 4, my son will be 3 in February. I know that each
day I am less of a parent than I want to be. But I keep trying, and ya
know, the kids, they keep giving you a second chance. THey do not
demand perfection from you.
I can not imagine doing it alone in a new city... I havve other things
on my plate, but I do know that it is hard, it is very hard!!!!
I have several things that help me through the day...
1) Every morning, I recieve, via email THE DAILY GROVE.
these are inspirational and thought producing tidbits by Scott Noelle.
Sign up at www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove
2) I also subscribe to TUT www.tut.com i get a daily inspirational
email about the peace that is around me and the things i can attain
with peaceful thoughts.
3) I admit to myself and my children that I am not perfect. I don't
strive for perfection, and I do not measure myself against it. I do
the best I can. That's all I can do.
I also have an 18 and 17 year old, whose childhood was much differnt
than the little ones I am now raising. Bizarrely enough, although I
was only 21 at the time, and made MANY,MANY mistakes- my girls remember
none of them.
They remember I was there with them-not that I at times hated being
there with them.
They remember the stories I read, not the sarcastic statements I
sometimes made.
They remember the kisses and cuddles not the yelling and screaming.
I am sure that there are some days that if DSS were to walk in my home
they would surely take my children away...except that my kids know I am
trying my best..just as I know they are.
It does get easier, they will change. They will not always need you as
much as they do now...
And finally say to yourself, over and over again..."THEY ARE NOT DOING
THIS TO MAKE ME UPSET" i tell my dh that all the time.. they are just
little, they love you...all will be ok...hang on tight, it is a quick
ride.
Blessings
Julie
rebecca de
Deborah , boy does your rant sound familiar!! Listen, I sent my child (4 at the time just barely turning 5) last year to kindergarten even though I really wanted to unschool (gasp -- according to my family and friends)... in January he wanted to stay home so we did however, even though we met tons of homeschoolers found a great group to chum with and I even found another unschooler there; went to an unschooling conference so he could see even more kids and feel even more freedon ---- he decided he wanted school again half way through september. SOOOOO if you reallly don't want your children in the public school system ,then I wouldn't start it.... I really feel that if I just never sent him he would never felt that the only way he could "learn" was through a school???? That is just my two cents. '
It does get crazy though when you are with them constantly and they are at very demanding ages!!! I have responded exactly as you wrote below... But you know what even with him in school I still can be "crazy"...
Try to grasp on to those moments that feel so "right" -- for me it was the late nights nestled down watching a movie , reading or just romping and then both boys all snuggled tight next to me. this fall when we were able to be outside playing soaking in the outdoors (while the other kids were locked in doors for school.)
I think that every unschooler may have felt like you at one time// I know I did... sometimes I wondered why I just couldn't follow the order like everyone else (ween your child off of you or bottle by 1, start sending them away early to bed, send them to pre- pre school, pre-k, pre... and get my 'break' from them ....etc...) However, now that I am back following the norm there isn't a day that I just want to ball and keep my boy home from school and have my wits tested even more...
Am I making any sense? I'm basically trying to say that for one your feelings are valid and you are absolutely normal . 2nd do you really want him away from you yet?? 3rd. you recognize why your children respond to you a certain way -- that's half the battle and you can work on it... How about this for an idea? How about you slip off for sometime when hubby gets home -- to exercise, go for a car ride, go to a bookstore/library anything..>? Trust your instinct and hire a babysitter if hubby can't do that for you (Not being obnoxious).
blessings deborah and hooray for being the nursing , loving, caring momma you are...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It does get crazy though when you are with them constantly and they are at very demanding ages!!! I have responded exactly as you wrote below... But you know what even with him in school I still can be "crazy"...
Try to grasp on to those moments that feel so "right" -- for me it was the late nights nestled down watching a movie , reading or just romping and then both boys all snuggled tight next to me. this fall when we were able to be outside playing soaking in the outdoors (while the other kids were locked in doors for school.)
I think that every unschooler may have felt like you at one time// I know I did... sometimes I wondered why I just couldn't follow the order like everyone else (ween your child off of you or bottle by 1, start sending them away early to bed, send them to pre- pre school, pre-k, pre... and get my 'break' from them ....etc...) However, now that I am back following the norm there isn't a day that I just want to ball and keep my boy home from school and have my wits tested even more...
Am I making any sense? I'm basically trying to say that for one your feelings are valid and you are absolutely normal . 2nd do you really want him away from you yet?? 3rd. you recognize why your children respond to you a certain way -- that's half the battle and you can work on it... How about this for an idea? How about you slip off for sometime when hubby gets home -- to exercise, go for a car ride, go to a bookstore/library anything..>? Trust your instinct and hire a babysitter if hubby can't do that for you (Not being obnoxious).
blessings deborah and hooray for being the nursing , loving, caring momma you are...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Krest
My son is almost 5, and this past summer we started unschooling. He became very physically active this past year, more than before, and I felt he would never be worn out. He also began talking more, telling more stories, more imagination, all of which required my participation.
It was tiring for me, and I only have the one. What helped he and I was to be as physically active as possible every day. We went swimming, to the park, bike riding, walks/runs around the neighborhood. I gave up on reading, art, puzzles...anything that required sitting still. He took gymnastics. Our living room turned into a wrestling room. I chased him around the house and leaped onto the beds and furniture. We hung a rope swing from a tree
He now picks up playmates occasionally at the park, and I can relax for a bit. He now does more art, but reading, even at bedtime, is a hit or miss. He does like to settle down with TV and movies, and I can snatch a nap some days during his quiet time.
Sometimes we pick up the house before DH gets home, sometimes not. Sometimes the laundry is done, sometimes not. If we and the animals have been fed during the day, I consider it a success...all else is icing on the cake.
Robin
_____________________________________________________________
Dreaming of a career in Medical Administration? Click here to make your dream career a reality.
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It was tiring for me, and I only have the one. What helped he and I was to be as physically active as possible every day. We went swimming, to the park, bike riding, walks/runs around the neighborhood. I gave up on reading, art, puzzles...anything that required sitting still. He took gymnastics. Our living room turned into a wrestling room. I chased him around the house and leaped onto the beds and furniture. We hung a rope swing from a tree
He now picks up playmates occasionally at the park, and I can relax for a bit. He now does more art, but reading, even at bedtime, is a hit or miss. He does like to settle down with TV and movies, and I can snatch a nap some days during his quiet time.
Sometimes we pick up the house before DH gets home, sometimes not. Sometimes the laundry is done, sometimes not. If we and the animals have been fed during the day, I consider it a success...all else is icing on the cake.
Robin
_____________________________________________________________
Dreaming of a career in Medical Administration? Click here to make your dream career a reality.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3oIq8TPDbuj0TUCLKKeov3Nz2AthXRi9L4wvRhfBL1HSlBn5/?count=1234567890
Zoa Conner
Deborah,
It sounds like you have already identified the basic problem. You are
unhappy and are acting in certain ways (yelling, etc.). Your children are
mirroring and magnifying that same choice of actions. The possible solution
to send him to school (sorry Early Education Program) is one alternative.
But is it the only one? Definitely not. Is it the best one? It sure wasn¹t
in my case (when I had a social 5 year old who wanted to go go go all the
time and an infant who didn¹t want to get in the car). In my case it made
the feelings and home environment much worse. And that was only for 2 months
(yes, I¹m a little slow sometimes to let it drag on that long)
Let¹s take a look at the comments in your post:
Ok so you are overwhelmed. What works for me is to slow down. Reduce
expectations. Create less work for yourself so you can stop being
overwhelmed. Choose one thing to do each day just because its fun and you
want to do it. Make popcorn. Take a walk outside. Make pizza from scratch.
Read a book that you loved as a child.
I have lived in my current town since 1991. I know tons of people through
various means. I have fewer friends than I can count on 2 hands. I have
really only one family that can make the time to get together with me and my
kids on a weekly basis. That wonderful tribe lives almost an hour away. So
being new isn¹t always the issue when talking about not having friends. I
meet my social needs a lot online (familyrun.ning.com) and with
emailing/talking with folks that live far away or whose schedules simply
conflict with mine.
What are you doing that brings you joy and gets you and the kids out of the
house?
Have you connected with other folks whose kids are home learning too? How
about local unschoolers?
Have you been to a LLL meeting? That is sometimes a good way to meet new
folks.
How about hanging out at the local park or library during storytime?
room. Work there. Pick another room on another day. Or focus on the 2-3
rooms you all use every day. Or choose your bedroom as the place you need to
be just so and make it that way every day if it is that important to you.
If toys all over are your issue, either consolidate toys into 1 room near
the kitchen and spend a lot of time there with the 2 kids (playing and
picking up as you go) or don¹t worry about what their bedroom looks like as
long as you have a path if that makes you comfortable.
Also, invite your kids to clean with you. They will probably love it. Clean
where they are playing. You can clean the sink while the tub is filling for
a bath for the kids. They can help clean the tub after the bath. You can
invite them to play pickup games (everyone gets a kiss after they pick up 5
toys or clothes or whatever including you!) Ask your oldest for a big bear
hug when you finish 5 minutes of dish washing. Be creative.
husbands when their wives are unhappy. Vice versa too. Maybe you need to
just decide that you will show more appreciation for what he does for you
even the littlest thing. Maybe you could benefit from determining his Love
Language (a la the book the Five Love Languages) and showing him in his
preferred language that you love him. Hard moments in life are just that
moments. Yucky moments do not have to define your entire day/week/year/life.
Let the bad times wash past you and bring in better days.
saw that?), yelling (so I look in the mirror), and bargaining with "us" parents
(my husband is responsible for that one).
Divide and conquer is not the only parenting strategy that works. Sometimes
doing things together or near each other also works pretty well. Making
muffins with your 5 year old while the toddler matches shapes using the
plastic reusable containers. Painting rocks with water. Reading while
building with legos. Making marks on paper with a big chunky crayon
(sometimes called drawing ;-))
Let me hold you hand - virtually. Imagine you are sitting down on your back
porch in a cozy chair sipping a cold lemonade with a friend when you read
posts from this list. Join familyrun.ning.com and ask that I be your friend.
Silly as it seems, that helped me. It reminds me that I have friends even
when I can¹t touch, see, or talk to them.
send the bigger boy to preschool. I
haven't mentioned that the big boy still occasionally nurses for "love" as
he says.
I have a 5 year old who still nurses. I am a La Leche League Leader.
Congratulations for being above average with me! (average length of nursing
time is 4.2 years) Is it still a source of comfort and joy for both of you?
If so, treasure it. Given how life is right now for you, it may be the only
time your older son truly feels your love. Plan a weaning party for when he
is truly done.
As for the younger one, 18 months is still so little and needing of your
time and physical help. If nursing is a (only?) source of comfort for him,
he will have a harder time if you wean him. Maybe a group cuddle time when
some one wants to nurse? Pile into a bed with books and giggles. Or turn on
a special show/movie or some music. Enjoy the time in any way possible.
Hope this helps,
Zoa
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
*Handmade stuff @ earthyzee.etsy.com
*LaPlata Area Food Delivery @ laplata-area-food.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It sounds like you have already identified the basic problem. You are
unhappy and are acting in certain ways (yelling, etc.). Your children are
mirroring and magnifying that same choice of actions. The possible solution
to send him to school (sorry Early Education Program) is one alternative.
But is it the only one? Definitely not. Is it the best one? It sure wasn¹t
in my case (when I had a social 5 year old who wanted to go go go all the
time and an infant who didn¹t want to get in the car). In my case it made
the feelings and home environment much worse. And that was only for 2 months
(yes, I¹m a little slow sometimes to let it drag on that long)
Let¹s take a look at the comments in your post:
>Mostly because I am afraid that the only behavior he's seeing is myoverwhelmed-momma ranting.
Ok so you are overwhelmed. What works for me is to slow down. Reduce
expectations. Create less work for yourself so you can stop being
overwhelmed. Choose one thing to do each day just because its fun and you
want to do it. Make popcorn. Take a walk outside. Make pizza from scratch.
Read a book that you loved as a child.
>Seems to me he is extremely NASTY, and because he sees ME being nasty as I"mfeeling isolated (moved here this past Jan and have no real "friends"),
I have lived in my current town since 1991. I know tons of people through
various means. I have fewer friends than I can count on 2 hands. I have
really only one family that can make the time to get together with me and my
kids on a weekly basis. That wonderful tribe lives almost an hour away. So
being new isn¹t always the issue when talking about not having friends. I
meet my social needs a lot online (familyrun.ning.com) and with
emailing/talking with folks that live far away or whose schedules simply
conflict with mine.
What are you doing that brings you joy and gets you and the kids out of the
house?
Have you connected with other folks whose kids are home learning too? How
about local unschoolers?
Have you been to a LLL meeting? That is sometimes a good way to meet new
folks.
How about hanging out at the local park or library during storytime?
>overwhelmed (bigger house means bigger mess),Feel like you have to have this huge house spotless? You don¹t. Pick one
room. Work there. Pick another room on another day. Or focus on the 2-3
rooms you all use every day. Or choose your bedroom as the place you need to
be just so and make it that way every day if it is that important to you.
If toys all over are your issue, either consolidate toys into 1 room near
the kitchen and spend a lot of time there with the 2 kids (playing and
picking up as you go) or don¹t worry about what their bedroom looks like as
long as you have a path if that makes you comfortable.
Also, invite your kids to clean with you. They will probably love it. Clean
where they are playing. You can clean the sink while the tub is filling for
a bath for the kids. They can help clean the tub after the bath. You can
invite them to play pickup games (everyone gets a kiss after they pick up 5
toys or clothes or whatever including you!) Ask your oldest for a big bear
hug when you finish 5 minutes of dish washing. Be creative.
>unappreciated (by my husband for a variety of reasons),Hmm, care to share more about this? Maybe it is a mutual thing. Its hard on
husbands when their wives are unhappy. Vice versa too. Maybe you need to
just decide that you will show more appreciation for what he does for you
even the littlest thing. Maybe you could benefit from determining his Love
Language (a la the book the Five Love Languages) and showing him in his
preferred language that you love him. Hard moments in life are just that
moments. Yucky moments do not have to define your entire day/week/year/life.
Let the bad times wash past you and bring in better days.
>and unable to divide my time and attention properly between two darlingchildren. Big boy is also prone to "fly off the handle" (gee, wonder where he
saw that?), yelling (so I look in the mirror), and bargaining with "us" parents
(my husband is responsible for that one).
Divide and conquer is not the only parenting strategy that works. Sometimes
doing things together or near each other also works pretty well. Making
muffins with your 5 year old while the toddler matches shapes using the
plastic reusable containers. Painting rocks with water. Reading while
building with legos. Making marks on paper with a big chunky crayon
(sometimes called drawing ;-))
>I feel unable to change without SOMEBODY to come over and... not "watch" me,but to just HELP me a little, or to do some hand-holding.
Let me hold you hand - virtually. Imagine you are sitting down on your back
porch in a cozy chair sipping a cold lemonade with a friend when you read
posts from this list. Join familyrun.ning.com and ask that I be your friend.
Silly as it seems, that helped me. It reminds me that I have friends even
when I can¹t touch, see, or talk to them.
>Only people I know are through husband's job - nice enough people, but theykeep suggesting that my life would be easier if I'd wean my 18 month old and
send the bigger boy to preschool. I
haven't mentioned that the big boy still occasionally nurses for "love" as
he says.
I have a 5 year old who still nurses. I am a La Leche League Leader.
Congratulations for being above average with me! (average length of nursing
time is 4.2 years) Is it still a source of comfort and joy for both of you?
If so, treasure it. Given how life is right now for you, it may be the only
time your older son truly feels your love. Plan a weaning party for when he
is truly done.
As for the younger one, 18 months is still so little and needing of your
time and physical help. If nursing is a (only?) source of comfort for him,
he will have a harder time if you wean him. Maybe a group cuddle time when
some one wants to nurse? Pile into a bed with books and giggles. Or turn on
a special show/movie or some music. Enjoy the time in any way possible.
Hope this helps,
Zoa
----------------
Zoa Conner, PhD
Physicist and Organic Learning Mother
zoaconner@...
*Handmade stuff @ earthyzee.etsy.com
*LaPlata Area Food Delivery @ laplata-area-food.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christie Craigie-Carter
>Wow, great ideas! And it is so true. I get overwhelmed a lot, and
> >Mostly because I am afraid that the only behavior he's seeing is my
> overwhelmed-momma ranting.
>
> <<<Ok so you are overwhelmed. What works for me is to slow down. Reduce
> expectations. Create less work for yourself so you can stop being
> overwhelmed. Choose one thing to do each day just because its fun and you
> want to do it. Make popcorn. Take a walk outside. Make pizza from scratch.
> Read a book that you loved as a child.>>>>
>
honestly, I've told anyone who will listen, that ironically, the more
overwhelmed I am, the more relief I (and we) get from connecting. And I'll
tell you, this may not help since you sound like you're already committed to
unschooling, but having done so for me has made a big difference in the
pressure I put on myself. I still put a lot of pressure on me (meeting the
district requirements, etc.), but not near as much as when I felt we "had
to" xyz.
>Seems to me he is extremely NASTY, and because he sees ME being nasty asI"m
feeling isolated (moved here this past Jan and have no real "friends"),
>LLL is a great idea!!! Even as "seasoned" as I am (I also nurse my children
> What are you doing that brings you joy and gets you and the kids out of the
> house?
> Have you connected with other folks whose kids are home learning too? How
> about local unschoolers?
> Have you been to a LLL meeting? That is sometimes a good way to meet new
> folks.
> How about hanging out at the local park or library during storytime?
>
until they choose to wean, and have a 2.5 year old going strong), it is
still nice to be around like-minded people. Drives me crazy that tending to
your child's physical and emotional needs is considered "fringe" or
whatever, but being among friends makes me feel so much less scrutinized.
>A friend of mine sent me a choreplanner. I think it is from "motivated
>
> >overwhelmed (bigger house means bigger mess),
>
> Feel like you have to have this huge house spotless? You don¹t. Pick one
> room. Work there. Pick another room on another day. Or focus on the 2-3
> rooms you all use every day. Or choose your bedroom as the place you need
> to
> be just so and make it that way every day if it is that important to you.
> If toys all over are your issue, either consolidate toys into 1 room near
> the kitchen and spend a lot of time there with the 2 kids (playing and
> picking up as you go) or don¹t worry about what their bedroom looks like as
> long as you have a path if that makes you comfortable.
>
moms.com". It breaks things into small pieces for you, and you end up
getting the stuff done that you never thought you had time for before. I
haven't been following it, but when I do, everything feels much more
manageable. For now, I'm focusing on my kids and my volunteer activities
and do the dishes and other things when I "have" to, and otherwise mostly
just keep paths until I am inspired to go beyond that. Sometimes I hate it,
but I have had some health problems (nothing too serious, but I was worried
for a while) that really helped me to get perspective.
>I like that last one!!! I love that my dd is interested in helping me do
>
> Also, invite your kids to clean with you. They will probably love it. Clean
> where they are playing. You can clean the sink while the tub is filling for
> a bath for the kids. They can help clean the tub after the bath. You can
> invite them to play pickup games (everyone gets a kiss after they pick up 5
> toys or clothes or whatever including you!) Ask your oldest for a big
> bear
> hug when you finish 5 minutes of dish washing. Be creative.
>
the dishes. It's such nice time to spend together where in the past, I
resented the chores taking me away from my kids and other things I enjoy.
With her there, it's so much more enjoyable.
>I don't know that specific group, but my online groups are such a lifeline
>
> >I feel unable to change without SOMEBODY to come over and... not "watch"
> me,
> but to just HELP me a little, or to do some hand-holding.
>
> Let me hold you hand - virtually. Imagine you are sitting down on your back
> porch in a cozy chair sipping a cold lemonade with a friend when you read
> posts from this list. Join familyrun.ning.com and ask that I be your
> friend.
> Silly as it seems, that helped me. It reminds me that I have friends even
> when I can¹t touch, see, or talk to them.
>
for me. It can get out of hand if you are like me, and have a big heart and
feel like you have to respond to everyone. I also can't tell you how much
taking 20 minutes up in my room where I can't hear the wonderful kid chaos
(I've realized through my son's sensory issues that I have my own and get
really overwhelmed when my noise tolerance is surpassed for too long).
>I am so thankful for the nursing. With the 3rd, I've had more stresses and
>
> >Only people I know are through husband's job - nice enough people, but
> they
> keep suggesting that my life would be easier if I'd wean my 18 month old
> and
> send the bigger boy to preschool. I
> haven't mentioned that the big boy still occasionally nurses for "love" as
> he says.
>
> I have a 5 year old who still nurses. I am a La Leche League Leader.
> Congratulations for being above average with me! (average length of nursing
> time is 4.2 years) Is it still a source of comfort and joy for both of you?
> If so, treasure it. Given how life is right now for you, it may be the only
> time your older son truly feels your love. Plan a weaning party for when he
> is truly done.
>
even more than normal haven't been the mom I want to be. Giving us both the
gift of nursing has been so great and healing. And in my case, he is likely
my last so I cherish every moment. My dd nursed until she weaned herself at
around 4 1/4, 4 1/2 and I feel it has helped her feel secure in my love even
though I am not always the mom I want to be.
<<<<As for the younger one, 18 months is still so little and needing of your
time and physical help. If nursing is a (only?) source of comfort for him,
he will have a harder time if you wean him. Maybe a group cuddle time when
some one wants to nurse? Pile into a bed with books and giggles. Or turn on
a special show/movie or some music. Enjoy the time in any way possible.>>>>
I want to comment on this. So many well-meaning people suggest weaning as a
stress relief. Intuitively, I knew that weaning my children before they
were ready would be painful on some level for both of us which would negate
any stress benefit. Of course YMMV, but I know that sometimes being in the
now, it is hard to evaluate the impact on the future.
Virtual hugs,
Christie in NY
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Therese
Hi Deborah,
I pretty much wrote your post on the always unschooling board. My children are 4.5 and 2.5. It has been one of the more difficult times for me lately, and it is temping to want to enroll my 4.5 year old in our local program, except for the fact she doesn't want me to leave her. ever. :) I only left her one time with friends and it was horrible. She still has some issues from that since we were in traffic and couldn't get back to her very soon. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I totally understand. Bad days are usually followed by good ones. Probably just writing your post helped you to organize your thoughts.
The only thing I can say is to be gentle with yourself, and to keep reading.
Naomi Aldort's book has helped me alot with my outbursts of yelling and anger.
You can read some of her articles and more here; http://www.naturalchild.org/%c2%a0
Blessings! This too shall pass.
Therese
http://authenticparenting.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I pretty much wrote your post on the always unschooling board. My children are 4.5 and 2.5. It has been one of the more difficult times for me lately, and it is temping to want to enroll my 4.5 year old in our local program, except for the fact she doesn't want me to leave her. ever. :) I only left her one time with friends and it was horrible. She still has some issues from that since we were in traffic and couldn't get back to her very soon. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I totally understand. Bad days are usually followed by good ones. Probably just writing your post helped you to organize your thoughts.
The only thing I can say is to be gentle with yourself, and to keep reading.
Naomi Aldort's book has helped me alot with my outbursts of yelling and anger.
You can read some of her articles and more here; http://www.naturalchild.org/%c2%a0
Blessings! This too shall pass.
Therese
http://authenticparenting.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Deborah,
From your signature blurb, it looks like you've moved at least 3 times in the
last 3 years. Wow! Just the moving by itself would be an incredible stress,
having small children is inherently stressful, feeling isolated is stressful.
It's no wonder you're falling off your raw edge.
Okay, so now what? My biggest suggestion is that you HAVE to find a way to
un-isolate yourself, to find friends and/or social interaction. Feeling all
alone in a pressure cooker just sets you all up for things to blow.
Are you actually in Joplin, or just somewhere close by?
Deborah, in IL
**************
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From your signature blurb, it looks like you've moved at least 3 times in the
last 3 years. Wow! Just the moving by itself would be an incredible stress,
having small children is inherently stressful, feeling isolated is stressful.
It's no wonder you're falling off your raw edge.
Okay, so now what? My biggest suggestion is that you HAVE to find a way to
un-isolate yourself, to find friends and/or social interaction. Feeling all
alone in a pressure cooker just sets you all up for things to blow.
Are you actually in Joplin, or just somewhere close by?
Deborah, in IL
**************
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
5 Travel Deals!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
You might like to know that there's a "sister" unschooling board to
this one: Always Unschooled, which has a focus on the needs of
younger children.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
--- In [email protected], "Deborah" <xiezmom@...>
wrote:
kids tend to echo back at us :( That being said, consider another
possibility - which is that both of you have a hard time dealing with
stress and/or transitions. The situation is setting both of
you "off" - which may not seem helpful, but if you aren't beating
yourself up over his behavior you might have an easier time finding
other solutions.
Something that can help a whole lot in any kind of difficult
situation is to keep in mind that you're in a difficult situation. As
silly as that sounds, wanting things to just "be" better can be an
enormous source of stress. Change is hard. Transitions suck. But its
human nature to forget that and wonder "what did I do wrong?" So
maybe make a sign for your bathroom mirror or something as a
reminder. Even a tiny bit less stress can make for a big shift in
dynamics.
autonomy - which means they want to be independent *and* they want
mom to help them (but only in Exactly the way they want to be
helped). Making life less stressful for (and with) a 4yo involves
finding ways to make his life, well, easier! Look around your house
and try to see it all from his perspective. How many things are out
of reach? How many things are too complicated, too difficult? How
often/loudly does he have to ask for help to get it? Can you make his
life easier?
kids? Call local junior high and high-schools and see if they have a
baby-sitter "club" or listing, a Future Teachers club, or a Future
Homemakers club. You may be able to get a little of the help you're
looking for! Tell whoever that you're not looking for a babysitter
per se, but a "mother's helper" - which means you can take on a
younger kid, as young as 10 maybe - since you're going to be right
there. Even someone to play with One of the kids will help you feel
less overwhelmed.
nicer than "lazing around"? As crazy as this may sound, given that
you're feeling overwhelmed, try to shift your thinking to savoring
this time. Really relish the fact that you get to sleep late with
your sweet guys and spend the day loving them. My sweet guy is 15 - I
miss the little boy days, sometimes. I'm glad I savored some of them.
I did better savoring the little-girl days with my 7yo, and have been
glad of that - a year ago my partner had an injury and I went to work
ft as a result, so days of sleeping in and eating french toast and
cheese are confined to weekends and holidays for me. Any time you
think of it, savor the moment.
Something that helps for those not-so-savory moments is to see them
as individual instances, rather than stringing all of them together
into "a bad day" or words "a bad kid" - which isn't what you said,
but you did say a lot about negative behavior. When you combine
savoring the good bits with not dwelling on the bad, you'll find you
feel better about life in general. That helps life in general Be
better, by reducing stress all 'round.
That's a place to start, anyway. Beyond that, would you like to lay
out some specific incidents and look for possible ways to do
differently next time? Or would that be too much right now?
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
this one: Always Unschooled, which has a focus on the needs of
younger children.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/
--- In [email protected], "Deborah" <xiezmom@...>
wrote:
> Mostly because I am afraid thatI can certainly relate to feeling overwhelmed, and its true that our
> the only behavior he's seeing is my overwhelmed-momma ranting.
> Seems to me he is extremely NASTY, and because he sees ME being
> nasty as I"m feeling isolated ... overwhelmed ...
> unappreciated ...and unable
> to divide my time and attention properly
kids tend to echo back at us :( That being said, consider another
possibility - which is that both of you have a hard time dealing with
stress and/or transitions. The situation is setting both of
you "off" - which may not seem helpful, but if you aren't beating
yourself up over his behavior you might have an easier time finding
other solutions.
Something that can help a whole lot in any kind of difficult
situation is to keep in mind that you're in a difficult situation. As
silly as that sounds, wanting things to just "be" better can be an
enormous source of stress. Change is hard. Transitions suck. But its
human nature to forget that and wonder "what did I do wrong?" So
maybe make a sign for your bathroom mirror or something as a
reminder. Even a tiny bit less stress can make for a big shift in
dynamics.
> Big boy is also prone to "fly off the handle"It might help to know that 4yos typically crave a whole lot of
autonomy - which means they want to be independent *and* they want
mom to help them (but only in Exactly the way they want to be
helped). Making life less stressful for (and with) a 4yo involves
finding ways to make his life, well, easier! Look around your house
and try to see it all from his perspective. How many things are out
of reach? How many things are too complicated, too difficult? How
often/loudly does he have to ask for help to get it? Can you make his
life easier?
> Only people I know are through husband's job - nice enoughI'd
> people, but they keep suggesting that my life would be easier if
> wean my 18 month old and send the bigger boy to preschool.Yikes. Do you know anyone with a teen or pre-teen who likes little
kids? Call local junior high and high-schools and see if they have a
baby-sitter "club" or listing, a Future Teachers club, or a Future
Homemakers club. You may be able to get a little of the help you're
looking for! Tell whoever that you're not looking for a babysitter
per se, but a "mother's helper" - which means you can take on a
younger kid, as young as 10 maybe - since you're going to be right
there. Even someone to play with One of the kids will help you feel
less overwhelmed.
> If a hostile "outsider"sleeping
> was to observe my mothering / educating, they'd think I was
> late with them, feeding them too much french toast with powderedaround
> sugar and sharp cheddar (not at the same time) and scrambling
> at the last minute to get the house barely organized (note: notThere's a word for that, y'know: nesting. Doesn't that sound much
> clean) before my husband comes home.
nicer than "lazing around"? As crazy as this may sound, given that
you're feeling overwhelmed, try to shift your thinking to savoring
this time. Really relish the fact that you get to sleep late with
your sweet guys and spend the day loving them. My sweet guy is 15 - I
miss the little boy days, sometimes. I'm glad I savored some of them.
I did better savoring the little-girl days with my 7yo, and have been
glad of that - a year ago my partner had an injury and I went to work
ft as a result, so days of sleeping in and eating french toast and
cheese are confined to weekends and holidays for me. Any time you
think of it, savor the moment.
Something that helps for those not-so-savory moments is to see them
as individual instances, rather than stringing all of them together
into "a bad day" or words "a bad kid" - which isn't what you said,
but you did say a lot about negative behavior. When you combine
savoring the good bits with not dwelling on the bad, you'll find you
feel better about life in general. That helps life in general Be
better, by reducing stress all 'round.
That's a place to start, anyway. Beyond that, would you like to lay
out some specific incidents and look for possible ways to do
differently next time? Or would that be too much right now?
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
almadoing
--- In [email protected], "Deborah" <xiezmom@...> wrote:
Okay, I'm tired and
> I"m rambling a little. My 18 month old doesn't sleep longer than 1
> hour and 40 minutes. I haven't slept properly in about 4 years. I
> WANT to live what I think - what I only BARELY understand - is,
> might be, the unschooling lifestyle. But I'm struggling. You each
> had to "start" somewhere. Can you just throw me a rope...
>
I have so been where you are, and my conclusion for me was that the
tiredness was thing that undermined everything else. When I am so tired
I feel as if I'm walking through treacle all day I know I cannot parent
effectively and I cannot do anything else and I feel completely
inadequate in every way. For me getting sleep was what changed things.
I have had to find ways to do that. It is very difficult when nursing
and I weaned DS2 soon after he was 2 because I felt I had no more to
offer anyone without some sleep. Now that I am not exhausted ALL the
time I have more energy for enjoying my children, picking up as I go
through my day, reading stuff and so on.
Wishing you all the best,
Alison
DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
Matt & Jessica
Wow you have A LOT on your plate right now.
First I think you need to give yourself a break. Nobody is perfect and you have a lot going on to top it off.
I have a five year old nursing too (like I believe Zoa said). I think four is a very trying year. There are trials with every growth period but four was particularly challenging.
Honestly all of my dd's friends are starting Kindergarten this year. Or most of them are. We have seen how much MORE difficult it is having them in a "school". They have homework (they did in preschool too), school activities on top of things they are actually interested in, picking them up, getting them there, etc. I honestly think it is a bigger hassle from the outside looking in. I know for our family it would be a huge hassle for something we don't even believe is good for our dd.
So my humble advice to you is to find some like minded friends (similar doesn't mean they will be exactly like you sometimes that is hard to remember). Getting involved in some sort of group might give you the friends you need and get your son involved so you feel like you are "doing" more.
Unschooling has been a wonderful thing for us. Radical Unschooling has opened up our lives even more. You might realize that some of those things you are going crazy about go away once you settle the real problems. I really don't think sending your son to school will change anything except adding extra stress to your life.
Good Luck with whatever choice you make!!!!!
Jessica
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
First I think you need to give yourself a break. Nobody is perfect and you have a lot going on to top it off.
I have a five year old nursing too (like I believe Zoa said). I think four is a very trying year. There are trials with every growth period but four was particularly challenging.
Honestly all of my dd's friends are starting Kindergarten this year. Or most of them are. We have seen how much MORE difficult it is having them in a "school". They have homework (they did in preschool too), school activities on top of things they are actually interested in, picking them up, getting them there, etc. I honestly think it is a bigger hassle from the outside looking in. I know for our family it would be a huge hassle for something we don't even believe is good for our dd.
So my humble advice to you is to find some like minded friends (similar doesn't mean they will be exactly like you sometimes that is hard to remember). Getting involved in some sort of group might give you the friends you need and get your son involved so you feel like you are "doing" more.
Unschooling has been a wonderful thing for us. Radical Unschooling has opened up our lives even more. You might realize that some of those things you are going crazy about go away once you settle the real problems. I really don't think sending your son to school will change anything except adding extra stress to your life.
Good Luck with whatever choice you make!!!!!
Jessica
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
missalexmissalex
Dear Deborah,
My heart really goes out to you. I just wanted to mention really quick
that I have done well with taking what works for me from Flylady.net .
The biggest thing for me is that I have the house divided into 5 zones,
and 1 week each month I mainly just do whatever needs
cleaning/organizing/taking care of in that room. I have a whole week to
get it done, and if I don't, I know I will do it next month. If all my
tasks are mainly in one room/adjacent rooms, it is easier to clean
with/around my 17-month-old. Besides just doing stuff when she is in
there already, I've found things she likes to do in each area, like
fluffing couch pillows. My house is still cluttered and hardly
spotless, but nothing gets too bad and I feel less overwhelmed.
Alex
mom to Katya, 17 months
My heart really goes out to you. I just wanted to mention really quick
that I have done well with taking what works for me from Flylady.net .
The biggest thing for me is that I have the house divided into 5 zones,
and 1 week each month I mainly just do whatever needs
cleaning/organizing/taking care of in that room. I have a whole week to
get it done, and if I don't, I know I will do it next month. If all my
tasks are mainly in one room/adjacent rooms, it is easier to clean
with/around my 17-month-old. Besides just doing stuff when she is in
there already, I've found things she likes to do in each area, like
fluffing couch pillows. My house is still cluttered and hardly
spotless, but nothing gets too bad and I feel less overwhelmed.
> overwhelmed (bigger house means bigger mess)Good luck!
Alex
mom to Katya, 17 months
D Ferguson
I'm a little uncertain about whether it is best/most appropriate to respond to the entire group, so please tell me if this is offensive. Thank you for the advice, guidance, and direction. I don't know which "area" is most important; most upsetting, but I feel drawn to talk about being overwhelmed.
I'm not entirely sure how I can "slow down" or make "less work." I feel like I'm barely treading water daily, what with just making meals, keeping enough clean dishes to cook the NEXT meal and eat it, bathe the kids and squeeze in personal hygiene time for myself, try to wash some clothes (I'm not even talking about sheets and towels...), and maybe "DO" something (craft, paint, library???). Or "take a walk?" I dread it - my almost 4 year old doesn't listen. Not to ANYthing I say. He won't stay close while we walk, rides his bike at a pace I can't keep up with, doesn't listen when I yell stop or a car is coming, and runs into the house to pout if I "get serious" about trying to have him honor my "rules" for being in the streets in our neighborhood. And my 18-month old won't just "sit" in a stroller, little "chubby car" or the homemade "carrier" I worked so hard on. If I put him down to walk, he pulls his hand from mine or falls to his knees
in protest, but if I let him just go, he tries to run in the opposite direction from me - while my big boy is riding like the wind the other direction. It's exhausting chaos and isn't even REMOTELY fun. I feel like all I'm doing is complaining, but this is very seriously the state of things. My kids are like wild horses when you open the gates. I see other kids staying close to their parents in the mall or at the park, and am reduced almost to tears thinking I have somehow failed to "do" something or impart some information to them to impress upon either of them how important it is to be near me at important times. It is absolutely exhausting. I HATE to do it. I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is like a ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church, WHEREVER. It's awful. And sadly, I mostly stay inside with them because of it. Even
in our yard, the "baby" spends most of our outside time running for the street REPEATEDLY. And if I turn my back for a minute to try to occupy him with an actual toy or game, my big boy rides his bike out of the driveway and down the street with me yelling after him while trying to corral my baby. It's a joke. REally, I'm sure the neighbors (and anybody else who happens to catch a glimpse of me) think I'm a joke.
But mostly, my feeling of being overwhelmed is compounded by the house. It's not so much that there is more to clean, because I am also somewhat inadequate in that area as well, cleaning on a sort of needed basis only. There's no schedule like, "clean the sinks on one day" or vaccum on another day or wash the kitchen floor on another day. I absolutely feel like I am treading water with weights on my ankles. But the REAL irritation to me is that almost every room in this house is still an absolutely DISGUSTING color left from the previous owners. One room has two walls that are neon orange, and the other two are bright orange. They used to have wallpaper decals but I took them down over time. But there is no way on earth that I can paint "little by little" or do the sanding and patching that has to be done. Our master bedroom is a disgusting cranberry with a white-trash special border along the top of the room that doesn't even match the
paint. It is intolerable. When we moved in, the basement was Cocoa cola red, with another trashy border along the top of the entire room. HOWEVER, (this will be one illustration of my husband's atttitude about things), we paid a painter to remove the border and paint the entire room a sort of "new house beige." And my husband bought himself an oversized l-shaped sofa with 4 recliners built in, and a 47" TV with a new theater and sound system. I hate TV in general, can't tolerate the constant "noise." I HAVE NOWHERE TO "GO" TO FIND MY PEACE AND SOLACE. The living room is yellow and maroon (I kid you not) with our blue-based furniture and decor in it. Our cranberry bedroom has all of my spa blue and orange bedroom accessories. I was allowed to have the painters paint the kitchen - was supposed to go from seafoam green with a maroon border to plain white, BUT THE GREEN BLED THROUGH and when I brought it to the painter's attention he got
crappy and left me a gallon of white and told my husband to do it himself. Then there's the issue of the electric stove that my husband said we'd change out for a gas one, which hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's GOING to. He keeps saying that I don't cook "all that much" or "all that well" so can't I just deal with it. And our "office room" is a fleshy colored pink that is disgusting in daylight, and we are using two folding tables to supplement our broken desk that we were supposed to replace with a black desk system that I found (to match our black piano).
This is all sort of a waste of time for readers, as I complain about ridiculous details of my life. I will make changes. I promise you. Your posts / suggestions are not wasted. But I feel like without the details of what's bothering me, does it really come together?
Friends? I feel like I'm just not "clicking" with the people I'm meeting. Maybe I expect too much? I don't know. But I really don't want to share my time or my kids' time with parents who are proud of letting their babies just "cry it out." HOpe I don't offend anyone here. Or I'm having a hard time feeling close to people who keep telling me to wean them saying that doing that will make things soooo much eeeeasier for me. It won't. Or people who tell me that I'm selfish for wanting to keep my kids at home while they learn. I feel like I'm not meeting people who "understand me" or understand that right now I'm a mother FIRST, and that doesn't necessarily mean that I am wrong or unbalanced because I don't take my kids to the local daycare three days a week while I go to Target or enjoy "me" time. I went to a get together from a meetup.com mom's group that I'm in, in my town, and upon seeing all the moms ordering drinks with hard liquor
in them, I asked whether anybody was still nursing anybody. And one of them said "oh yea, I'm secretly nrsing my 3 year old." And I belted out "So am I" except that she was joking. That was her idea of a joke. Apart from that, I think the group liked me well enough, but you see where things were headed. I'm in that online mom's group, I have attended LLL meetings (though they're about 30 minutes away into the next state - Kansas - and there were no chilren similarly aged to my big boy), and am pretty sure there is a homeschool group here in Joplin (though it is the religious-based faction).
What gives me joy / what do we do to get out of the house? Nothing much. I recently started taking violin lessons again after about 20 years (I took them for 10 years when I was much younger), so that's a real treat to get out of the house not just for the 30 minute lesson, but for the fun of driving there and home without children in the car - which means I can put all the windows down, listen to whatever music I want to listen to at whatever volume I want to... It has been somewhat difficult to make the time to practice, though once I did it while nursing my 18month old (which wasn't pretty) just so that I could continue playing instead of stopping to hold him. It's a loud activity that I haven't been able to do while either child is sleeping/napping. My husband initiated a weight loss contest at his office and I'm "unofficially" participating, so I've been working hard to "do the treatmill" almost everyday (we have one in our basement).
That's not really a treat and is hard to do with the two kids repeatedly trying to get on it while I'm on it, but in the larger scheme of things I do feel better after using it. I'd like to learn to knit. Maybe get into a group that meets occasionally.
Being appreciated or appreciating my husband? Yeah. I don't really appreciate him, no. I don't appreciate feeling like I am the only parent in the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a housekeeper. Or a nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what he "does for me." There are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting and his spouse-ing. I feel like his parenting is so absolutely and completely divergent from mine, that I am so shocked, disappointed, irritated, and generally dismayed, that I find it difficult to just "turn that all off" (or maybe I should say "turn on" ) and let it all pass while we connect as spouses. Which we don't do. He is a hard-worker, with decent morals, motivated by the desire for approval. He is an executive level administrator, working for the State of Missouri. I, on the other hand, do not have a job - as he reminds me often while trying to make a joke of it to make himself seem like "a big
man." His ideas about parenting, SCHOOLING, and directing our small children are... well, almost opposite of mine. He makes fun of me wanting to teach our children at home - saying that I can "barely manage them all day long" and hand them off to him when he walks in the door, and then I want to keep them home from school? He does not follow "my" procedures for running the home. And my big boy has already keyed into the idea that there are two sets of rules / ways of doing things: The way mom does things while dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is home. And I'm talking about EVERYTHING. If I say that he needs to put his socks and shoes on to ride his bike(stating a rule of safety), he will then ask his dad whether he needs to put his socks on and my husband will say that he DOES "because it's cold out" (implying that if it was warm, you wouldn't have to wear them) - to which my son will say, "it's NOT cold
outside." So, the whole issue morphs into an argument about the weather, rather than a safety rule. I have tried to say that if he doesn't want to wear socks when it's cold out, then he will simply be cold (and I typically have extra warm/er clothes in the van. But my husband offers "bogus" reasons for doing things, especially after I say something. And lately he has started telling our son to "ask Momma." So, the responsibility falls back on me. Like the other day I actually had a few minutes where I was able to take a bath (without having to bathe the children while I did it) and my husband actually sent my big boy into the bathroom to ask me whether he could play with a golf ball inside the house! Well, I answered while reminding of the house rule (no heavy, hard balls inside the house - it's too much to monitor with an 18month old) and sent him out of the bathroom. Minutes later, my husband came in and asked whether I told Xie that
he could play with the golf ball in the house, because he lied and said that mom said it was okay. Well, duh, why would he have to ask me that? Does he not know/live by the same house rules that the rest of us do? My son knows the rule, but lately has taken to testing my husband's knowledge of all of them. And I don't care whether somebody wants to tell me that my husband is sooooo busy at work all day long that when he comes home he wants to "disengage" or decompress or whateve rthe excuse is. He's not that stupid. He's just lazy. And he's a lazy parent because he CAN be. meaning, because I ALWAYS take up the slack. There is no other choice, for me at least. So, every evening our house is chaotic, loud, and disorganized, while my kids push the limits of everything and my husband tries to squeeze in his sports games and whatever TV show he recorded. DId I mention that I hate the tv? And the way it divides our family. My husband
sits staring at the tv with his back against the couch, as if sitting on the floor is a magical way to be at the kids' level, but I can hear each of them (the kids) yelling for him to look at them - he stares right over them at the TV. Lately it's football - which seems to be on every day anymore not just monday nights. And my son/s can be standing on the couch, jumping and walking all over it, while my husband sits there with his back against it, and I can be in the other room and I'm to believe that I'm the only one who can HEAR them getting crazy while he's sitting RIGHT THERE? I won't believe that. I'm responsible for the lives of two other souls all day long and I manage to multi-task or do things in a way that I can still manage their safety. And he cannot? It's downright disgusting to me. So, I end up being the one who comes into the room, states the rule (sit down on the couch, or GET down) and the kids see me as the "bad guy."
Plus, if I'm in the tub, I can usually hear the savagery, which continues until someone gets hurt. ALWAYS. And then the child who gets hurt ALWAYS walks into the bathroom crying, at which point, my private bath time is over.
Oh, and it really undermines my daily guidance of our boys when my husband uses ghetto slang with them. LIke telling them something is "off the schnizzle" (which my almost 4 year old repeats) or teaching him to do some vulgar movements after hitting a homerun (which he seems to expect him to do after my husband has a big hit at a softball game). Or teaching him to sing "Whoop that trick." I mean, what are we, in junior high? During the day, I teach them songs like "Doe a Deer" (From The Sound of Music) or to sing the alphabet - in other words, AGE APPROPRIATE things. He is dumbing them down with stuff that I would be mortified if either of them ever actually parroted my husband in public. It's not even "stuff" it's just stupid crap that I don't think they need to be exposed to at this tender age, like stupid little quips from the Jim Rome show (sports "talkshow" if you want to call it that) that my almost 4 year old repeats with enthusiasm
after my husband "uses" the lines on him. They have the rest of their lives to hear all of that and to decide whether they want to emulate it. I don't know whether the main unschooling tenets include exposing your kids to things that are totally age inappropriate, socially inappropriate, and politically incorrect in the larger scheme of life, but I'm not a fan of that sort of thing. I can't imagine that's part of "an education" until the child has the skills and life experience to differentiate between desirable and undesirable language, behavior, and custom.
I'm not a victim, that's not my point of any of this. Rather, I CHOOSE to actively parent, to be very aware of my kids and to try to maintain some semblance of order in our house, whether it's enforcement of safety rules (like no swinging a sword at your little brother's head or stopping the swordfight until I can help them have one safetly, whereas he would just let them go at it until somebody - always the baby - gets hurt), or just plain procedures to maximize good hygiene (like accompanying Xie to the toilet where I've seen that he needs further assistance and guidance in learning to pee standing up, because he's getting it all over himself, the floor, and his clothes - whereas my husband just yells to him from the other room whether he's "okay"), or somewhat regularly scheduled eating intervals (somehow on weekends he doesn't present food at least three times a day because he says he isn't hungry - hello, they're children who typically eat three
times a day during the week, and when he doesn't offer them something to eat, the baby comes to me to nurse). And really, despite the level of detail here, I'm not so difficult to get along with that I can't make friends. I used to have a nice network of friends when we lived in Tucson, and I made friends quickly with a family that lived across the street from the house we had in Illinois briefly, and I've maintained some of those friendships while we've moved back and forth across the country like gypsies. I'm just feeling like there is no substitute for having a girlfriend over, even with her kids, during the day and being able to get a few things done while she's here because she can help with my chilren or help ME.
I do value your offer of virtual friendship. And I was in tears reading your posts, touched by your warmth. And I WILL do some of the reading you suggested. And I won't forget to savor the "good moments" with my babies. I WILL make adjustments. I'm not a lost cause. There are just times when I feel like the weight of the world is on MY shoulders, alone, and would love to have a mother, grandmother, husband, close friend who could come over, to just "fight the good fight" WITH me. Instead of feeling like a mule chained to a heavy load, wishing I was a big powerful clydesdale (spelling?) pulling on a team that would get us to where we're going so much faster that we'd probably have time to run wild in the field and eat the tall grass. And my main concern is that all of my struggles, mental, emotional, whatever, are being "passed onto" my boys. The bottom line is that I want to change, better myself, make a better environment for them,
and to lay a better framework for helping them learn the things they need to know in order to get to where they want in their lives.
I'm actually a lawyer. I came from a family of divorce and remarriage of both parents. My father was especially controlling, and continues to try to be. His family is Italian, Catholic, and not formally educated (except for me and a few other same generation cousins) and maintained a strict hierarchy of governance that was headed by his mother, until her death two Augusts ago. There were plenty of family rules, plenty of SHOULDS, and CAN'Ts. I became a lawyer to "show them" that I COULD. My mother (who died in 1991) was Armenian, from a differently controlling family that stressed conformity to overarching "American" ways - including a husband who worked, a stay at home mother with beauty school training who could "do hair" in the basement for money on the side, and who took pride in cooking, cleaning, and getting the children to and from school. My mother divorced my father, never went to beauty school, remarried a man with a couple
kids, had my brother, and initiated our move in the 1980's from Illinois to Arizona, after which "The FAmily" stopped talking to her. She was a "maverick." And so, I like to think that I got the best of both worlds from my parents. Though I have spent considerable time (and money) in "counseling" trying to forge my OWN path.
And SO, here I am, trying to unschool mySELF (unsure of this context) and wanting more, or should I say LESS, for my own children... wanting them to find their own right path without forcing them down MY "right path." I'm discovering that I'm not entirely sure what is my right path.
Okay, getting too deep for 4:30am and probably alienating members. I'll stop. And I'm going back to bed. For now.
Very sincerely,
Deborah.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not entirely sure how I can "slow down" or make "less work." I feel like I'm barely treading water daily, what with just making meals, keeping enough clean dishes to cook the NEXT meal and eat it, bathe the kids and squeeze in personal hygiene time for myself, try to wash some clothes (I'm not even talking about sheets and towels...), and maybe "DO" something (craft, paint, library???). Or "take a walk?" I dread it - my almost 4 year old doesn't listen. Not to ANYthing I say. He won't stay close while we walk, rides his bike at a pace I can't keep up with, doesn't listen when I yell stop or a car is coming, and runs into the house to pout if I "get serious" about trying to have him honor my "rules" for being in the streets in our neighborhood. And my 18-month old won't just "sit" in a stroller, little "chubby car" or the homemade "carrier" I worked so hard on. If I put him down to walk, he pulls his hand from mine or falls to his knees
in protest, but if I let him just go, he tries to run in the opposite direction from me - while my big boy is riding like the wind the other direction. It's exhausting chaos and isn't even REMOTELY fun. I feel like all I'm doing is complaining, but this is very seriously the state of things. My kids are like wild horses when you open the gates. I see other kids staying close to their parents in the mall or at the park, and am reduced almost to tears thinking I have somehow failed to "do" something or impart some information to them to impress upon either of them how important it is to be near me at important times. It is absolutely exhausting. I HATE to do it. I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is like a ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church, WHEREVER. It's awful. And sadly, I mostly stay inside with them because of it. Even
in our yard, the "baby" spends most of our outside time running for the street REPEATEDLY. And if I turn my back for a minute to try to occupy him with an actual toy or game, my big boy rides his bike out of the driveway and down the street with me yelling after him while trying to corral my baby. It's a joke. REally, I'm sure the neighbors (and anybody else who happens to catch a glimpse of me) think I'm a joke.
But mostly, my feeling of being overwhelmed is compounded by the house. It's not so much that there is more to clean, because I am also somewhat inadequate in that area as well, cleaning on a sort of needed basis only. There's no schedule like, "clean the sinks on one day" or vaccum on another day or wash the kitchen floor on another day. I absolutely feel like I am treading water with weights on my ankles. But the REAL irritation to me is that almost every room in this house is still an absolutely DISGUSTING color left from the previous owners. One room has two walls that are neon orange, and the other two are bright orange. They used to have wallpaper decals but I took them down over time. But there is no way on earth that I can paint "little by little" or do the sanding and patching that has to be done. Our master bedroom is a disgusting cranberry with a white-trash special border along the top of the room that doesn't even match the
paint. It is intolerable. When we moved in, the basement was Cocoa cola red, with another trashy border along the top of the entire room. HOWEVER, (this will be one illustration of my husband's atttitude about things), we paid a painter to remove the border and paint the entire room a sort of "new house beige." And my husband bought himself an oversized l-shaped sofa with 4 recliners built in, and a 47" TV with a new theater and sound system. I hate TV in general, can't tolerate the constant "noise." I HAVE NOWHERE TO "GO" TO FIND MY PEACE AND SOLACE. The living room is yellow and maroon (I kid you not) with our blue-based furniture and decor in it. Our cranberry bedroom has all of my spa blue and orange bedroom accessories. I was allowed to have the painters paint the kitchen - was supposed to go from seafoam green with a maroon border to plain white, BUT THE GREEN BLED THROUGH and when I brought it to the painter's attention he got
crappy and left me a gallon of white and told my husband to do it himself. Then there's the issue of the electric stove that my husband said we'd change out for a gas one, which hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's GOING to. He keeps saying that I don't cook "all that much" or "all that well" so can't I just deal with it. And our "office room" is a fleshy colored pink that is disgusting in daylight, and we are using two folding tables to supplement our broken desk that we were supposed to replace with a black desk system that I found (to match our black piano).
This is all sort of a waste of time for readers, as I complain about ridiculous details of my life. I will make changes. I promise you. Your posts / suggestions are not wasted. But I feel like without the details of what's bothering me, does it really come together?
Friends? I feel like I'm just not "clicking" with the people I'm meeting. Maybe I expect too much? I don't know. But I really don't want to share my time or my kids' time with parents who are proud of letting their babies just "cry it out." HOpe I don't offend anyone here. Or I'm having a hard time feeling close to people who keep telling me to wean them saying that doing that will make things soooo much eeeeasier for me. It won't. Or people who tell me that I'm selfish for wanting to keep my kids at home while they learn. I feel like I'm not meeting people who "understand me" or understand that right now I'm a mother FIRST, and that doesn't necessarily mean that I am wrong or unbalanced because I don't take my kids to the local daycare three days a week while I go to Target or enjoy "me" time. I went to a get together from a meetup.com mom's group that I'm in, in my town, and upon seeing all the moms ordering drinks with hard liquor
in them, I asked whether anybody was still nursing anybody. And one of them said "oh yea, I'm secretly nrsing my 3 year old." And I belted out "So am I" except that she was joking. That was her idea of a joke. Apart from that, I think the group liked me well enough, but you see where things were headed. I'm in that online mom's group, I have attended LLL meetings (though they're about 30 minutes away into the next state - Kansas - and there were no chilren similarly aged to my big boy), and am pretty sure there is a homeschool group here in Joplin (though it is the religious-based faction).
What gives me joy / what do we do to get out of the house? Nothing much. I recently started taking violin lessons again after about 20 years (I took them for 10 years when I was much younger), so that's a real treat to get out of the house not just for the 30 minute lesson, but for the fun of driving there and home without children in the car - which means I can put all the windows down, listen to whatever music I want to listen to at whatever volume I want to... It has been somewhat difficult to make the time to practice, though once I did it while nursing my 18month old (which wasn't pretty) just so that I could continue playing instead of stopping to hold him. It's a loud activity that I haven't been able to do while either child is sleeping/napping. My husband initiated a weight loss contest at his office and I'm "unofficially" participating, so I've been working hard to "do the treatmill" almost everyday (we have one in our basement).
That's not really a treat and is hard to do with the two kids repeatedly trying to get on it while I'm on it, but in the larger scheme of things I do feel better after using it. I'd like to learn to knit. Maybe get into a group that meets occasionally.
Being appreciated or appreciating my husband? Yeah. I don't really appreciate him, no. I don't appreciate feeling like I am the only parent in the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a housekeeper. Or a nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what he "does for me." There are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting and his spouse-ing. I feel like his parenting is so absolutely and completely divergent from mine, that I am so shocked, disappointed, irritated, and generally dismayed, that I find it difficult to just "turn that all off" (or maybe I should say "turn on" ) and let it all pass while we connect as spouses. Which we don't do. He is a hard-worker, with decent morals, motivated by the desire for approval. He is an executive level administrator, working for the State of Missouri. I, on the other hand, do not have a job - as he reminds me often while trying to make a joke of it to make himself seem like "a big
man." His ideas about parenting, SCHOOLING, and directing our small children are... well, almost opposite of mine. He makes fun of me wanting to teach our children at home - saying that I can "barely manage them all day long" and hand them off to him when he walks in the door, and then I want to keep them home from school? He does not follow "my" procedures for running the home. And my big boy has already keyed into the idea that there are two sets of rules / ways of doing things: The way mom does things while dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is home. And I'm talking about EVERYTHING. If I say that he needs to put his socks and shoes on to ride his bike(stating a rule of safety), he will then ask his dad whether he needs to put his socks on and my husband will say that he DOES "because it's cold out" (implying that if it was warm, you wouldn't have to wear them) - to which my son will say, "it's NOT cold
outside." So, the whole issue morphs into an argument about the weather, rather than a safety rule. I have tried to say that if he doesn't want to wear socks when it's cold out, then he will simply be cold (and I typically have extra warm/er clothes in the van. But my husband offers "bogus" reasons for doing things, especially after I say something. And lately he has started telling our son to "ask Momma." So, the responsibility falls back on me. Like the other day I actually had a few minutes where I was able to take a bath (without having to bathe the children while I did it) and my husband actually sent my big boy into the bathroom to ask me whether he could play with a golf ball inside the house! Well, I answered while reminding of the house rule (no heavy, hard balls inside the house - it's too much to monitor with an 18month old) and sent him out of the bathroom. Minutes later, my husband came in and asked whether I told Xie that
he could play with the golf ball in the house, because he lied and said that mom said it was okay. Well, duh, why would he have to ask me that? Does he not know/live by the same house rules that the rest of us do? My son knows the rule, but lately has taken to testing my husband's knowledge of all of them. And I don't care whether somebody wants to tell me that my husband is sooooo busy at work all day long that when he comes home he wants to "disengage" or decompress or whateve rthe excuse is. He's not that stupid. He's just lazy. And he's a lazy parent because he CAN be. meaning, because I ALWAYS take up the slack. There is no other choice, for me at least. So, every evening our house is chaotic, loud, and disorganized, while my kids push the limits of everything and my husband tries to squeeze in his sports games and whatever TV show he recorded. DId I mention that I hate the tv? And the way it divides our family. My husband
sits staring at the tv with his back against the couch, as if sitting on the floor is a magical way to be at the kids' level, but I can hear each of them (the kids) yelling for him to look at them - he stares right over them at the TV. Lately it's football - which seems to be on every day anymore not just monday nights. And my son/s can be standing on the couch, jumping and walking all over it, while my husband sits there with his back against it, and I can be in the other room and I'm to believe that I'm the only one who can HEAR them getting crazy while he's sitting RIGHT THERE? I won't believe that. I'm responsible for the lives of two other souls all day long and I manage to multi-task or do things in a way that I can still manage their safety. And he cannot? It's downright disgusting to me. So, I end up being the one who comes into the room, states the rule (sit down on the couch, or GET down) and the kids see me as the "bad guy."
Plus, if I'm in the tub, I can usually hear the savagery, which continues until someone gets hurt. ALWAYS. And then the child who gets hurt ALWAYS walks into the bathroom crying, at which point, my private bath time is over.
Oh, and it really undermines my daily guidance of our boys when my husband uses ghetto slang with them. LIke telling them something is "off the schnizzle" (which my almost 4 year old repeats) or teaching him to do some vulgar movements after hitting a homerun (which he seems to expect him to do after my husband has a big hit at a softball game). Or teaching him to sing "Whoop that trick." I mean, what are we, in junior high? During the day, I teach them songs like "Doe a Deer" (From The Sound of Music) or to sing the alphabet - in other words, AGE APPROPRIATE things. He is dumbing them down with stuff that I would be mortified if either of them ever actually parroted my husband in public. It's not even "stuff" it's just stupid crap that I don't think they need to be exposed to at this tender age, like stupid little quips from the Jim Rome show (sports "talkshow" if you want to call it that) that my almost 4 year old repeats with enthusiasm
after my husband "uses" the lines on him. They have the rest of their lives to hear all of that and to decide whether they want to emulate it. I don't know whether the main unschooling tenets include exposing your kids to things that are totally age inappropriate, socially inappropriate, and politically incorrect in the larger scheme of life, but I'm not a fan of that sort of thing. I can't imagine that's part of "an education" until the child has the skills and life experience to differentiate between desirable and undesirable language, behavior, and custom.
I'm not a victim, that's not my point of any of this. Rather, I CHOOSE to actively parent, to be very aware of my kids and to try to maintain some semblance of order in our house, whether it's enforcement of safety rules (like no swinging a sword at your little brother's head or stopping the swordfight until I can help them have one safetly, whereas he would just let them go at it until somebody - always the baby - gets hurt), or just plain procedures to maximize good hygiene (like accompanying Xie to the toilet where I've seen that he needs further assistance and guidance in learning to pee standing up, because he's getting it all over himself, the floor, and his clothes - whereas my husband just yells to him from the other room whether he's "okay"), or somewhat regularly scheduled eating intervals (somehow on weekends he doesn't present food at least three times a day because he says he isn't hungry - hello, they're children who typically eat three
times a day during the week, and when he doesn't offer them something to eat, the baby comes to me to nurse). And really, despite the level of detail here, I'm not so difficult to get along with that I can't make friends. I used to have a nice network of friends when we lived in Tucson, and I made friends quickly with a family that lived across the street from the house we had in Illinois briefly, and I've maintained some of those friendships while we've moved back and forth across the country like gypsies. I'm just feeling like there is no substitute for having a girlfriend over, even with her kids, during the day and being able to get a few things done while she's here because she can help with my chilren or help ME.
I do value your offer of virtual friendship. And I was in tears reading your posts, touched by your warmth. And I WILL do some of the reading you suggested. And I won't forget to savor the "good moments" with my babies. I WILL make adjustments. I'm not a lost cause. There are just times when I feel like the weight of the world is on MY shoulders, alone, and would love to have a mother, grandmother, husband, close friend who could come over, to just "fight the good fight" WITH me. Instead of feeling like a mule chained to a heavy load, wishing I was a big powerful clydesdale (spelling?) pulling on a team that would get us to where we're going so much faster that we'd probably have time to run wild in the field and eat the tall grass. And my main concern is that all of my struggles, mental, emotional, whatever, are being "passed onto" my boys. The bottom line is that I want to change, better myself, make a better environment for them,
and to lay a better framework for helping them learn the things they need to know in order to get to where they want in their lives.
I'm actually a lawyer. I came from a family of divorce and remarriage of both parents. My father was especially controlling, and continues to try to be. His family is Italian, Catholic, and not formally educated (except for me and a few other same generation cousins) and maintained a strict hierarchy of governance that was headed by his mother, until her death two Augusts ago. There were plenty of family rules, plenty of SHOULDS, and CAN'Ts. I became a lawyer to "show them" that I COULD. My mother (who died in 1991) was Armenian, from a differently controlling family that stressed conformity to overarching "American" ways - including a husband who worked, a stay at home mother with beauty school training who could "do hair" in the basement for money on the side, and who took pride in cooking, cleaning, and getting the children to and from school. My mother divorced my father, never went to beauty school, remarried a man with a couple
kids, had my brother, and initiated our move in the 1980's from Illinois to Arizona, after which "The FAmily" stopped talking to her. She was a "maverick." And so, I like to think that I got the best of both worlds from my parents. Though I have spent considerable time (and money) in "counseling" trying to forge my OWN path.
And SO, here I am, trying to unschool mySELF (unsure of this context) and wanting more, or should I say LESS, for my own children... wanting them to find their own right path without forcing them down MY "right path." I'm discovering that I'm not entirely sure what is my right path.
Okay, getting too deep for 4:30am and probably alienating members. I'll stop. And I'm going back to bed. For now.
Very sincerely,
Deborah.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sherri
That's a lot to think about. I will say that I wanted to home school our
child from birth. My DH was against it and due to a chronic illness on my
part, I gave in and put DD in prek and she then went on to K-3 grades. What
I found out is I should have gone with my gut. My child was stressed and
unhappy in school. I didn't see another way with my condition.
However, the end of 2nd grade she had health issues directly related to
bullying at school. We went on medical supervision and found her a new
school. We went to the new school and got a horrible teacher. My daughter
has ibs and asthma, she missed 26 days of school because of stress induced
illness. The final straw was the wild witch teacher, (I have other names
for her) dumping her desk out as she got angry that she moved to slowly to
get a book. The teacher then yelled at her while the other children watched
her in horror. This happened Feb 25, 2008. DD has not been back to school.
Taking her out of school was not convenient for us. I needed to have major
surgery and needed it at a hospital 2 hours away. However, children aren't
meant to be convenient. We tried a school in a box, we liked the world
history aspect, skipped the religion and did what we wanted. I had been
reading all summer about unschooling and was really into the idea. I did
buy another another school in the box, that last a week. If I could find
the receipt I would send it back. However, DD does love all the books and
cool stuff. We talked to people in homeschooling groups and realized not to
worry so much about a label. We are in a deschooling unschooling do what
Faith wants place. We are going to homeschooling groups. Faith wants to
understand Shakespeare and so we are following her passion.
She is playing lots with friends after school, and lots of computer games.
However, she is happier then she has ever been in her entire life.
There have been some really really stressful times for both of us. I
haven't always said the right things. However, I do talk to my child and
apologize when I am in the wrong and I work on my behavior. We are now
radical unschooling and it isn't easy to make the transition.
I think my point is this, if in your gut you want to unschool your children,
or homeschool your children, you should follow your gut. If I had it to do
over again I would stop listening to all the nay sayers and find a local
unschooler or even homeschool teen to help out a couple of hours a day.
Last week I got to experience my child and 24/7 with out Daddy from Sunday
night till late thrusday. I was frustrated but I wouldn't trade the time
with my child for school.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
child from birth. My DH was against it and due to a chronic illness on my
part, I gave in and put DD in prek and she then went on to K-3 grades. What
I found out is I should have gone with my gut. My child was stressed and
unhappy in school. I didn't see another way with my condition.
However, the end of 2nd grade she had health issues directly related to
bullying at school. We went on medical supervision and found her a new
school. We went to the new school and got a horrible teacher. My daughter
has ibs and asthma, she missed 26 days of school because of stress induced
illness. The final straw was the wild witch teacher, (I have other names
for her) dumping her desk out as she got angry that she moved to slowly to
get a book. The teacher then yelled at her while the other children watched
her in horror. This happened Feb 25, 2008. DD has not been back to school.
Taking her out of school was not convenient for us. I needed to have major
surgery and needed it at a hospital 2 hours away. However, children aren't
meant to be convenient. We tried a school in a box, we liked the world
history aspect, skipped the religion and did what we wanted. I had been
reading all summer about unschooling and was really into the idea. I did
buy another another school in the box, that last a week. If I could find
the receipt I would send it back. However, DD does love all the books and
cool stuff. We talked to people in homeschooling groups and realized not to
worry so much about a label. We are in a deschooling unschooling do what
Faith wants place. We are going to homeschooling groups. Faith wants to
understand Shakespeare and so we are following her passion.
She is playing lots with friends after school, and lots of computer games.
However, she is happier then she has ever been in her entire life.
There have been some really really stressful times for both of us. I
haven't always said the right things. However, I do talk to my child and
apologize when I am in the wrong and I work on my behavior. We are now
radical unschooling and it isn't easy to make the transition.
I think my point is this, if in your gut you want to unschool your children,
or homeschool your children, you should follow your gut. If I had it to do
over again I would stop listening to all the nay sayers and find a local
unschooler or even homeschool teen to help out a couple of hours a day.
Last week I got to experience my child and 24/7 with out Daddy from Sunday
night till late thrusday. I was frustrated but I wouldn't trade the time
with my child for school.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Tavera
Hi Deborah! I'm Stephanie. I'm still new at this unschooling thing. I can
relate to a lot of things in your post. When my son was 4 he'd hide in the
big department stores while I had the baby with me in the shopping cart. I
felt like a terrible parent. That my son wouldn't listen to me and just
behave you know. I don't have any friends either. My dh works long hours.
When he comes home he likes to eat, shower, and watch tv till he goes to
sleep. Sometimes we barely talk. The kids and I want his attention. We've
told him this hundreds of times. He likes the house to be very clean when he
gets home. So the kids and I rush around trying to pick up everything, wash
dishes, etc. I also hate cooking but since I'm the only one who has to, then
I cook. I try out new recipes. I really feel you on the paint colors. We had
a really ugly dark olive green in our living room. Neon yellow in the
kitchen and dining room. Purple in our bedroom rofl. My dh is a painter and
you'd think our house would look nice because of that. Well it took him
probably a year to finally get it all painted. I think the way Dh is with us
really effects us. He's also not very supportive of unschooling. I
sometimes wonder how I fell in love with him. Anyway, I just want to to tell
you that you are not alone in this!
relate to a lot of things in your post. When my son was 4 he'd hide in the
big department stores while I had the baby with me in the shopping cart. I
felt like a terrible parent. That my son wouldn't listen to me and just
behave you know. I don't have any friends either. My dh works long hours.
When he comes home he likes to eat, shower, and watch tv till he goes to
sleep. Sometimes we barely talk. The kids and I want his attention. We've
told him this hundreds of times. He likes the house to be very clean when he
gets home. So the kids and I rush around trying to pick up everything, wash
dishes, etc. I also hate cooking but since I'm the only one who has to, then
I cook. I try out new recipes. I really feel you on the paint colors. We had
a really ugly dark olive green in our living room. Neon yellow in the
kitchen and dining room. Purple in our bedroom rofl. My dh is a painter and
you'd think our house would look nice because of that. Well it took him
probably a year to finally get it all painted. I think the way Dh is with us
really effects us. He's also not very supportive of unschooling. I
sometimes wonder how I fell in love with him. Anyway, I just want to to tell
you that you are not alone in this!
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 5:32 AM, D Ferguson <xiezmom@...> wrote:
> I'm a little uncertain about whether it is best/most appropriate to
> respond to the entire group, so please tell me if this is offensive. Thank
> you for the advice, guidance, and direction. I don't know which "area" is
> most important; most upsetting, but I feel drawn to talk about being
> overwhelmed.
>
> I'm not entirely sure how I can "slow down" or make "less work." I feel
> like I'm barely treading water daily, what with just making meals, keeping
> enough clean dishes to cook the NEXT meal and eat it, bathe the kids and
> squeeze in personal hygiene time for myself, try to wash some clothes (I'm
> not even talking about sheets and towels...), and maybe "DO" something
> (craft, paint, library???). Or "take a walk?" I dread it - my almost 4
> year old doesn't listen. Not to ANYthing I say. He won't stay close while
> we walk, rides his bike at a pace I can't keep up with, doesn't listen when
> I yell stop or a car is coming, and runs into the house to pout if I "get
> serious" about trying to have him honor my "rules" for being in the streets
> in our neighborhood. And my 18-month old won't just "sit" in a stroller,
> little "chubby car" or the homemade "carrier" I worked so hard on. If I put
> him down to walk, he pulls his hand from mine or falls to his knees
> in protest, but if I let him just go, he tries to run in the opposite
> direction from me - while my big boy is riding like the wind the other
> direction. It's exhausting chaos and isn't even REMOTELY fun. I feel like
> all I'm doing is complaining, but this is very seriously the state of
> things. My kids are like wild horses when you open the gates. I see other
> kids staying close to their parents in the mall or at the park, and am
> reduced almost to tears thinking I have somehow failed to "do" something or
> impart some information to them to impress upon either of them how important
> it is to be near me at important times. It is absolutely exhausting. I
> HATE to do it. I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is
> like a ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions
> throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church, WHEREVER.
> It's awful. And sadly, I mostly stay inside with them because of it. Even
> in our yard, the "baby" spends most of our outside time running for the
> street REPEATEDLY. And if I turn my back for a minute to try to occupy him
> with an actual toy or game, my big boy rides his bike out of the driveway
> and down the street with me yelling after him while trying to corral my
> baby. It's a joke. REally, I'm sure the neighbors (and anybody else who
> happens to catch a glimpse of me) think I'm a joke.
>
> But mostly, my feeling of being overwhelmed is compounded by the house.
> It's not so much that there is more to clean, because I am also somewhat
> inadequate in that area as well, cleaning on a sort of needed basis only.
> There's no schedule like, "clean the sinks on one day" or vaccum on another
> day or wash the kitchen floor on another day. I absolutely feel like I am
> treading water with weights on my ankles. But the REAL irritation to me is
> that almost every room in this house is still an absolutely DISGUSTING color
> left from the previous owners. One room has two walls that are neon orange,
> and the other two are bright orange. They used to have wallpaper decals but
> I took them down over time. But there is no way on earth that I can paint
> "little by little" or do the sanding and patching that has to be done. Our
> master bedroom is a disgusting cranberry with a white-trash special border
> along the top of the room that doesn't even match the
> paint. It is intolerable. When we moved in, the basement was Cocoa cola
> red, with another trashy border along the top of the entire room. HOWEVER,
> (this will be one illustration of my husband's atttitude about things), we
> paid a painter to remove the border and paint the entire room a sort of "new
> house beige." And my husband bought himself an oversized l-shaped sofa with
> 4 recliners built in, and a 47" TV with a new theater and sound system. I
> hate TV in general, can't tolerate the constant "noise." I HAVE NOWHERE TO
> "GO" TO FIND MY PEACE AND SOLACE. The living room is yellow and maroon (I
> kid you not) with our blue-based furniture and decor in it. Our cranberry
> bedroom has all of my spa blue and orange bedroom accessories. I was
> allowed to have the painters paint the kitchen - was supposed to go from
> seafoam green with a maroon border to plain white, BUT THE GREEN BLED
> THROUGH and when I brought it to the painter's attention he got
> crappy and left me a gallon of white and told my husband to do it himself.
> Then there's the issue of the electric stove that my husband said we'd
> change out for a gas one, which hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's
> GOING to. He keeps saying that I don't cook "all that much" or "all that
> well" so can't I just deal with it. And our "office room" is a fleshy
> colored pink that is disgusting in daylight, and we are using two folding
> tables to supplement our broken desk that we were supposed to replace with a
> black desk system that I found (to match our black piano).
>
> This is all sort of a waste of time for readers, as I complain about
> ridiculous details of my life. I will make changes. I promise you. Your
> posts / suggestions are not wasted. But I feel like without the details of
> what's bothering me, does it really come together?
>
> Friends? I feel like I'm just not "clicking" with the people I'm meeting.
> Maybe I expect too much? I don't know. But I really don't want to share my
> time or my kids' time with parents who are proud of letting their babies
> just "cry it out." HOpe I don't offend anyone here. Or I'm having a hard
> time feeling close to people who keep telling me to wean them saying that
> doing that will make things soooo much eeeeasier for me. It won't. Or
> people who tell me that I'm selfish for wanting to keep my kids at home
> while they learn. I feel like I'm not meeting people who "understand me" or
> understand that right now I'm a mother FIRST, and that doesn't necessarily
> mean that I am wrong or unbalanced because I don't take my kids to the local
> daycare three days a week while I go to Target or enjoy "me" time. I went
> to a get together from a meetup.com mom's group that I'm in, in my town,
> and upon seeing all the moms ordering drinks with hard liquor
> in them, I asked whether anybody was still nursing anybody. And one of
> them said "oh yea, I'm secretly nrsing my 3 year old." And I belted out "So
> am I" except that she was joking. That was her idea of a joke. Apart from
> that, I think the group liked me well enough, but you see where things were
> headed. I'm in that online mom's group, I have attended LLL meetings
> (though they're about 30 minutes away into the next state - Kansas - and
> there were no chilren similarly aged to my big boy), and am pretty sure
> there is a homeschool group here in Joplin (though it is the religious-based
> faction).
>
> What gives me joy / what do we do to get out of the house? Nothing much.
> I recently started taking violin lessons again after about 20 years (I took
> them for 10 years when I was much younger), so that's a real treat to get
> out of the house not just for the 30 minute lesson, but for the fun of
> driving there and home without children in the car - which means I can put
> all the windows down, listen to whatever music I want to listen to at
> whatever volume I want to... It has been somewhat difficult to make the
> time to practice, though once I did it while nursing my 18month old (which
> wasn't pretty) just so that I could continue playing instead of stopping to
> hold him. It's a loud activity that I haven't been able to do while either
> child is sleeping/napping. My husband initiated a weight loss contest at
> his office and I'm "unofficially" participating, so I've been working hard
> to "do the treatmill" almost everyday (we have one in our basement).
> That's not really a treat and is hard to do with the two kids repeatedly
> trying to get on it while I'm on it, but in the larger scheme of things I do
> feel better after using it. I'd like to learn to knit. Maybe get into a
> group that meets occasionally.
>
> Being appreciated or appreciating my husband? Yeah. I don't really
> appreciate him, no. I don't appreciate feeling like I am the only parent in
> the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a housekeeper. Or a
> nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what he "does for me." There
> are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting and his spouse-ing. I feel like
> his parenting is so absolutely and completely divergent from mine, that I am
> so shocked, disappointed, irritated, and generally dismayed, that I find it
> difficult to just "turn that all off" (or maybe I should say "turn on" ) and
> let it all pass while we connect as spouses. Which we don't do. He is a
> hard-worker, with decent morals, motivated by the desire for approval. He
> is an executive level administrator, working for the State of Missouri. I,
> on the other hand, do not have a job - as he reminds me often while trying
> to make a joke of it to make himself seem like "a big
> man." His ideas about parenting, SCHOOLING, and directing our small
> children are... well, almost opposite of mine. He makes fun of me wanting
> to teach our children at home - saying that I can "barely manage them all
> day long" and hand them off to him when he walks in the door, and then I
> want to keep them home from school? He does not follow "my" procedures for
> running the home. And my big boy has already keyed into the idea that there
> are two sets of rules / ways of doing things: The way mom does things while
> dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is home.
> And I'm talking about EVERYTHING. If I say that he needs to put his socks
> and shoes on to ride his bike(stating a rule of safety), he will then ask
> his dad whether he needs to put his socks on and my husband will say that he
> DOES "because it's cold out" (implying that if it was warm, you wouldn't
> have to wear them) - to which my son will say, "it's NOT cold
> outside." So, the whole issue morphs into an argument about the weather,
> rather than a safety rule. I have tried to say that if he doesn't want to
> wear socks when it's cold out, then he will simply be cold (and I typically
> have extra warm/er clothes in the van. But my husband offers "bogus"
> reasons for doing things, especially after I say something. And lately he
> has started telling our son to "ask Momma." So, the responsibility falls
> back on me. Like the other day I actually had a few minutes where I was
> able to take a bath (without having to bathe the children while I did it)
> and my husband actually sent my big boy into the bathroom to ask me whether
> he could play with a golf ball inside the house! Well, I answered while
> reminding of the house rule (no heavy, hard balls inside the house - it's
> too much to monitor with an 18month old) and sent him out of the bathroom.
> Minutes later, my husband came in and asked whether I told Xie that
> he could play with the golf ball in the house, because he lied and said
> that mom said it was okay. Well, duh, why would he have to ask me that?
> Does he not know/live by the same house rules that the rest of us do? My
> son knows the rule, but lately has taken to testing my husband's knowledge
> of all of them. And I don't care whether somebody wants to tell me that my
> husband is sooooo busy at work all day long that when he comes home he wants
> to "disengage" or decompress or whateve rthe excuse is. He's not that
> stupid. He's just lazy. And he's a lazy parent because he CAN be.
> meaning, because I ALWAYS take up the slack. There is no other choice, for
> me at least. So, every evening our house is chaotic, loud, and
> disorganized, while my kids push the limits of everything and my husband
> tries to squeeze in his sports games and whatever TV show he recorded. DId
> I mention that I hate the tv? And the way it divides our family. My
> husband
> sits staring at the tv with his back against the couch, as if sitting on
> the floor is a magical way to be at the kids' level, but I can hear each of
> them (the kids) yelling for him to look at them - he stares right over them
> at the TV. Lately it's football - which seems to be on every day anymore
> not just monday nights. And my son/s can be standing on the couch, jumping
> and walking all over it, while my husband sits there with his back against
> it, and I can be in the other room and I'm to believe that I'm the only one
> who can HEAR them getting crazy while he's sitting RIGHT THERE? I won't
> believe that. I'm responsible for the lives of two other souls all day long
> and I manage to multi-task or do things in a way that I can still manage
> their safety. And he cannot? It's downright disgusting to me. So, I end
> up being the one who comes into the room, states the rule (sit down on the
> couch, or GET down) and the kids see me as the "bad guy."
> Plus, if I'm in the tub, I can usually hear the savagery, which continues
> until someone gets hurt. ALWAYS. And then the child who gets hurt ALWAYS
> walks into the bathroom crying, at which point, my private bath time is
> over.
>
> Oh, and it really undermines my daily guidance of our boys when my husband
> uses ghetto slang with them. LIke telling them something is "off the
> schnizzle" (which my almost 4 year old repeats) or teaching him to do some
> vulgar movements after hitting a homerun (which he seems to expect him to do
> after my husband has a big hit at a softball game). Or teaching him to sing
> "Whoop that trick." I mean, what are we, in junior high? During the day, I
> teach them songs like "Doe a Deer" (From The Sound of Music) or to sing the
> alphabet - in other words, AGE APPROPRIATE things. He is dumbing them down
> with stuff that I would be mortified if either of them ever actually
> parroted my husband in public. It's not even "stuff" it's just stupid crap
> that I don't think they need to be exposed to at this tender age, like
> stupid little quips from the Jim Rome show (sports "talkshow" if you want to
> call it that) that my almost 4 year old repeats with enthusiasm
> after my husband "uses" the lines on him. They have the rest of their
> lives to hear all of that and to decide whether they want to emulate it. I
> don't know whether the main unschooling tenets include exposing your kids to
> things that are totally age inappropriate, socially inappropriate, and
> politically incorrect in the larger scheme of life, but I'm not a fan of
> that sort of thing. I can't imagine that's part of "an education" until the
> child has the skills and life experience to differentiate between desirable
> and undesirable language, behavior, and custom.
>
> I'm not a victim, that's not my point of any of this. Rather, I CHOOSE to
> actively parent, to be very aware of my kids and to try to maintain some
> semblance of order in our house, whether it's enforcement of safety rules
> (like no swinging a sword at your little brother's head or stopping the
> swordfight until I can help them have one safetly, whereas he would just let
> them go at it until somebody - always the baby - gets hurt), or just plain
> procedures to maximize good hygiene (like accompanying Xie to the toilet
> where I've seen that he needs further assistance and guidance in learning to
> pee standing up, because he's getting it all over himself, the floor, and
> his clothes - whereas my husband just yells to him from the other room
> whether he's "okay"), or somewhat regularly scheduled eating intervals
> (somehow on weekends he doesn't present food at least three times a day
> because he says he isn't hungry - hello, they're children who typically eat
> three
> times a day during the week, and when he doesn't offer them something to
> eat, the baby comes to me to nurse). And really, despite the level of
> detail here, I'm not so difficult to get along with that I can't make
> friends. I used to have a nice network of friends when we lived in Tucson,
> and I made friends quickly with a family that lived across the street from
> the house we had in Illinois briefly, and I've maintained some of those
> friendships while we've moved back and forth across the country like
> gypsies. I'm just feeling like there is no substitute for having a
> girlfriend over, even with her kids, during the day and being able to get a
> few things done while she's here because she can help with my chilren or
> help ME.
>
> I do value your offer of virtual friendship. And I was in tears reading
> your posts, touched by your warmth. And I WILL do some of the reading you
> suggested. And I won't forget to savor the "good moments" with my babies.
> I WILL make adjustments. I'm not a lost cause. There are just times when I
> feel like the weight of the world is on MY shoulders, alone, and would love
> to have a mother, grandmother, husband, close friend who could come over, to
> just "fight the good fight" WITH me. Instead of feeling like a mule chained
> to a heavy load, wishing I was a big powerful clydesdale (spelling?) pulling
> on a team that would get us to where we're going so much faster that we'd
> probably have time to run wild in the field and eat the tall grass. And my
> main concern is that all of my struggles, mental, emotional, whatever, are
> being "passed onto" my boys. The bottom line is that I want to change,
> better myself, make a better environment for them,
> and to lay a better framework for helping them learn the things they need
> to know in order to get to where they want in their lives.
>
> I'm actually a lawyer. I came from a family of divorce and remarriage of
> both parents. My father was especially controlling, and continues to try to
> be. His family is Italian, Catholic, and not formally educated (except for
> me and a few other same generation cousins) and maintained a strict
> hierarchy of governance that was headed by his mother, until her death two
> Augusts ago. There were plenty of family rules, plenty of SHOULDS, and
> CAN'Ts. I became a lawyer to "show them" that I COULD. My mother (who died
> in 1991) was Armenian, from a differently controlling family that stressed
> conformity to overarching "American" ways - including a husband who worked,
> a stay at home mother with beauty school training who could "do hair" in the
> basement for money on the side, and who took pride in cooking, cleaning, and
> getting the children to and from school. My mother divorced my father,
> never went to beauty school, remarried a man with a couple
> kids, had my brother, and initiated our move in the 1980's from Illinois to
> Arizona, after which "The FAmily" stopped talking to her. She was a
> "maverick." And so, I like to think that I got the best of both worlds from
> my parents. Though I have spent considerable time (and money) in
> "counseling" trying to forge my OWN path.
>
> And SO, here I am, trying to unschool mySELF (unsure of this context) and
> wanting more, or should I say LESS, for my own children... wanting them to
> find their own right path without forcing them down MY "right path." I'm
> discovering that I'm not entirely sure what is my right path.
>
> Okay, getting too deep for 4:30am and probably alienating members. I'll
> stop. And I'm going back to bed. For now.
> Very sincerely,
> Deborah.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DJ250
Oh, so my husband isn't only dh out there with the expectation that the house be in order and dinner on the way when he arrives home!?!?!? Well, that's a relief, of sorts. Just had to share that.
~Melissa :)
~Melissa :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie Tavera
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: On the verge of signing up for Early Childhood Program
Hi Deborah! I'm Stephanie. I'm still new at this unschooling thing. I can
relate to a lot of things in your post. When my son was 4 he'd hide in the
big department stores while I had the baby with me in the shopping cart. I
felt like a terrible parent. That my son wouldn't listen to me and just
behave you know. I don't have any friends either. My dh works long hours.
When he comes home he likes to eat, shower, and watch tv till he goes to
sleep. Sometimes we barely talk. The kids and I want his attention. We've
told him this hundreds of times. He likes the house to be very clean when he
gets home. So the kids and I rush around trying to pick up everything, wash
dishes, etc. I also hate cooking but since I'm the only one who has to, then
I cook. I try out new recipes. I really feel you on the paint colors. We had
a really ugly dark olive green in our living room. Neon yellow in the
kitchen and dining room. Purple in our bedroom rofl. My dh is a painter and
you'd think our house would look nice because of that. Well it took him
probably a year to finally get it all painted. I think the way Dh is with us
really effects us. He's also not very supportive of unschooling. I
sometimes wonder how I fell in love with him. Anyway, I just want to to tell
you that you are not alone in this!
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 5:32 AM, D Ferguson <xiezmom@...> wrote:
> I'm a little uncertain about whether it is best/most appropriate to
> respond to the entire group, so please tell me if this is offensive. Thank
> you for the advice, guidance, and direction. I don't know which "area" is
> most important; most upsetting, but I feel drawn to talk about being
> overwhelmed.
>
> I'm not entirely sure how I can "slow down" or make "less work." I feel
> like I'm barely treading water daily, what with just making meals, keeping
> enough clean dishes to cook the NEXT meal and eat it, bathe the kids and
> squeeze in personal hygiene time for myself, try to wash some clothes (I'm
> not even talking about sheets and towels...), and maybe "DO" something
> (craft, paint, library???). Or "take a walk?" I dread it - my almost 4
> year old doesn't listen. Not to ANYthing I say. He won't stay close while
> we walk, rides his bike at a pace I can't keep up with, doesn't listen when
> I yell stop or a car is coming, and runs into the house to pout if I "get
> serious" about trying to have him honor my "rules" for being in the streets
> in our neighborhood. And my 18-month old won't just "sit" in a stroller,
> little "chubby car" or the homemade "carrier" I worked so hard on. If I put
> him down to walk, he pulls his hand from mine or falls to his knees
> in protest, but if I let him just go, he tries to run in the opposite
> direction from me - while my big boy is riding like the wind the other
> direction. It's exhausting chaos and isn't even REMOTELY fun. I feel like
> all I'm doing is complaining, but this is very seriously the state of
> things. My kids are like wild horses when you open the gates. I see other
> kids staying close to their parents in the mall or at the park, and am
> reduced almost to tears thinking I have somehow failed to "do" something or
> impart some information to them to impress upon either of them how important
> it is to be near me at important times. It is absolutely exhausting. I
> HATE to do it. I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is
> like a ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions
> throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church, WHEREVER.
> It's awful. And sadly, I mostly stay inside with them because of it. Even
> in our yard, the "baby" spends most of our outside time running for the
> street REPEATEDLY. And if I turn my back for a minute to try to occupy him
> with an actual toy or game, my big boy rides his bike out of the driveway
> and down the street with me yelling after him while trying to corral my
> baby. It's a joke. REally, I'm sure the neighbors (and anybody else who
> happens to catch a glimpse of me) think I'm a joke.
>
> But mostly, my feeling of being overwhelmed is compounded by the house.
> It's not so much that there is more to clean, because I am also somewhat
> inadequate in that area as well, cleaning on a sort of needed basis only.
> There's no schedule like, "clean the sinks on one day" or vaccum on another
> day or wash the kitchen floor on another day. I absolutely feel like I am
> treading water with weights on my ankles. But the REAL irritation to me is
> that almost every room in this house is still an absolutely DISGUSTING color
> left from the previous owners. One room has two walls that are neon orange,
> and the other two are bright orange. They used to have wallpaper decals but
> I took them down over time. But there is no way on earth that I can paint
> "little by little" or do the sanding and patching that has to be done. Our
> master bedroom is a disgusting cranberry with a white-trash special border
> along the top of the room that doesn't even match the
> paint. It is intolerable. When we moved in, the basement was Cocoa cola
> red, with another trashy border along the top of the entire room. HOWEVER,
> (this will be one illustration of my husband's atttitude about things), we
> paid a painter to remove the border and paint the entire room a sort of "new
> house beige." And my husband bought himself an oversized l-shaped sofa with
> 4 recliners built in, and a 47" TV with a new theater and sound system. I
> hate TV in general, can't tolerate the constant "noise." I HAVE NOWHERE TO
> "GO" TO FIND MY PEACE AND SOLACE. The living room is yellow and maroon (I
> kid you not) with our blue-based furniture and decor in it. Our cranberry
> bedroom has all of my spa blue and orange bedroom accessories. I was
> allowed to have the painters paint the kitchen - was supposed to go from
> seafoam green with a maroon border to plain white, BUT THE GREEN BLED
> THROUGH and when I brought it to the painter's attention he got
> crappy and left me a gallon of white and told my husband to do it himself.
> Then there's the issue of the electric stove that my husband said we'd
> change out for a gas one, which hasn't happened and doesn't look like it's
> GOING to. He keeps saying that I don't cook "all that much" or "all that
> well" so can't I just deal with it. And our "office room" is a fleshy
> colored pink that is disgusting in daylight, and we are using two folding
> tables to supplement our broken desk that we were supposed to replace with a
> black desk system that I found (to match our black piano).
>
> This is all sort of a waste of time for readers, as I complain about
> ridiculous details of my life. I will make changes. I promise you. Your
> posts / suggestions are not wasted. But I feel like without the details of
> what's bothering me, does it really come together?
>
> Friends? I feel like I'm just not "clicking" with the people I'm meeting.
> Maybe I expect too much? I don't know. But I really don't want to share my
> time or my kids' time with parents who are proud of letting their babies
> just "cry it out." HOpe I don't offend anyone here. Or I'm having a hard
> time feeling close to people who keep telling me to wean them saying that
> doing that will make things soooo much eeeeasier for me. It won't. Or
> people who tell me that I'm selfish for wanting to keep my kids at home
> while they learn. I feel like I'm not meeting people who "understand me" or
> understand that right now I'm a mother FIRST, and that doesn't necessarily
> mean that I am wrong or unbalanced because I don't take my kids to the local
> daycare three days a week while I go to Target or enjoy "me" time. I went
> to a get together from a meetup.com mom's group that I'm in, in my town,
> and upon seeing all the moms ordering drinks with hard liquor
> in them, I asked whether anybody was still nursing anybody. And one of
> them said "oh yea, I'm secretly nrsing my 3 year old." And I belted out "So
> am I" except that she was joking. That was her idea of a joke. Apart from
> that, I think the group liked me well enough, but you see where things were
> headed. I'm in that online mom's group, I have attended LLL meetings
> (though they're about 30 minutes away into the next state - Kansas - and
> there were no chilren similarly aged to my big boy), and am pretty sure
> there is a homeschool group here in Joplin (though it is the religious-based
> faction).
>
> What gives me joy / what do we do to get out of the house? Nothing much.
> I recently started taking violin lessons again after about 20 years (I took
> them for 10 years when I was much younger), so that's a real treat to get
> out of the house not just for the 30 minute lesson, but for the fun of
> driving there and home without children in the car - which means I can put
> all the windows down, listen to whatever music I want to listen to at
> whatever volume I want to... It has been somewhat difficult to make the
> time to practice, though once I did it while nursing my 18month old (which
> wasn't pretty) just so that I could continue playing instead of stopping to
> hold him. It's a loud activity that I haven't been able to do while either
> child is sleeping/napping. My husband initiated a weight loss contest at
> his office and I'm "unofficially" participating, so I've been working hard
> to "do the treatmill" almost everyday (we have one in our basement).
> That's not really a treat and is hard to do with the two kids repeatedly
> trying to get on it while I'm on it, but in the larger scheme of things I do
> feel better after using it. I'd like to learn to knit. Maybe get into a
> group that meets occasionally.
>
> Being appreciated or appreciating my husband? Yeah. I don't really
> appreciate him, no. I don't appreciate feeling like I am the only parent in
> the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a housekeeper. Or a
> nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what he "does for me." There
> are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting and his spouse-ing. I feel like
> his parenting is so absolutely and completely divergent from mine, that I am
> so shocked, disappointed, irritated, and generally dismayed, that I find it
> difficult to just "turn that all off" (or maybe I should say "turn on" ) and
> let it all pass while we connect as spouses. Which we don't do. He is a
> hard-worker, with decent morals, motivated by the desire for approval. He
> is an executive level administrator, working for the State of Missouri. I,
> on the other hand, do not have a job - as he reminds me often while trying
> to make a joke of it to make himself seem like "a big
> man." His ideas about parenting, SCHOOLING, and directing our small
> children are... well, almost opposite of mine. He makes fun of me wanting
> to teach our children at home - saying that I can "barely manage them all
> day long" and hand them off to him when he walks in the door, and then I
> want to keep them home from school? He does not follow "my" procedures for
> running the home. And my big boy has already keyed into the idea that there
> are two sets of rules / ways of doing things: The way mom does things while
> dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is home.
> And I'm talking about EVERYTHING. If I say that he needs to put his socks
> and shoes on to ride his bike(stating a rule of safety), he will then ask
> his dad whether he needs to put his socks on and my husband will say that he
> DOES "because it's cold out" (implying that if it was warm, you wouldn't
> have to wear them) - to which my son will say, "it's NOT cold
> outside." So, the whole issue morphs into an argument about the weather,
> rather than a safety rule. I have tried to say that if he doesn't want to
> wear socks when it's cold out, then he will simply be cold (and I typically
> have extra warm/er clothes in the van. But my husband offers "bogus"
> reasons for doing things, especially after I say something. And lately he
> has started telling our son to "ask Momma." So, the responsibility falls
> back on me. Like the other day I actually had a few minutes where I was
> able to take a bath (without having to bathe the children while I did it)
> and my husband actually sent my big boy into the bathroom to ask me whether
> he could play with a golf ball inside the house! Well, I answered while
> reminding of the house rule (no heavy, hard balls inside the house - it's
> too much to monitor with an 18month old) and sent him out of the bathroom.
> Minutes later, my husband came in and asked whether I told Xie that
> he could play with the golf ball in the house, because he lied and said
> that mom said it was okay. Well, duh, why would he have to ask me that?
> Does he not know/live by the same house rules that the rest of us do? My
> son knows the rule, but lately has taken to testing my husband's knowledge
> of all of them. And I don't care whether somebody wants to tell me that my
> husband is sooooo busy at work all day long that when he comes home he wants
> to "disengage" or decompress or whateve rthe excuse is. He's not that
> stupid. He's just lazy. And he's a lazy parent because he CAN be.
> meaning, because I ALWAYS take up the slack. There is no other choice, for
> me at least. So, every evening our house is chaotic, loud, and
> disorganized, while my kids push the limits of everything and my husband
> tries to squeeze in his sports games and whatever TV show he recorded. DId
> I mention that I hate the tv? And the way it divides our family. My
> husband
> sits staring at the tv with his back against the couch, as if sitting on
> the floor is a magical way to be at the kids' level, but I can hear each of
> them (the kids) yelling for him to look at them - he stares right over them
> at the TV. Lately it's football - which seems to be on every day anymore
> not just monday nights. And my son/s can be standing on the couch, jumping
> and walking all over it, while my husband sits there with his back against
> it, and I can be in the other room and I'm to believe that I'm the only one
> who can HEAR them getting crazy while he's sitting RIGHT THERE? I won't
> believe that. I'm responsible for the lives of two other souls all day long
> and I manage to multi-task or do things in a way that I can still manage
> their safety. And he cannot? It's downright disgusting to me. So, I end
> up being the one who comes into the room, states the rule (sit down on the
> couch, or GET down) and the kids see me as the "bad guy."
> Plus, if I'm in the tub, I can usually hear the savagery, which continues
> until someone gets hurt. ALWAYS. And then the child who gets hurt ALWAYS
> walks into the bathroom crying, at which point, my private bath time is
> over.
>
> Oh, and it really undermines my daily guidance of our boys when my husband
> uses ghetto slang with them. LIke telling them something is "off the
> schnizzle" (which my almost 4 year old repeats) or teaching him to do some
> vulgar movements after hitting a homerun (which he seems to expect him to do
> after my husband has a big hit at a softball game). Or teaching him to sing
> "Whoop that trick." I mean, what are we, in junior high? During the day, I
> teach them songs like "Doe a Deer" (From The Sound of Music) or to sing the
> alphabet - in other words, AGE APPROPRIATE things. He is dumbing them down
> with stuff that I would be mortified if either of them ever actually
> parroted my husband in public. It's not even "stuff" it's just stupid crap
> that I don't think they need to be exposed to at this tender age, like
> stupid little quips from the Jim Rome show (sports "talkshow" if you want to
> call it that) that my almost 4 year old repeats with enthusiasm
> after my husband "uses" the lines on him. They have the rest of their
> lives to hear all of that and to decide whether they want to emulate it. I
> don't know whether the main unschooling tenets include exposing your kids to
> things that are totally age inappropriate, socially inappropriate, and
> politically incorrect in the larger scheme of life, but I'm not a fan of
> that sort of thing. I can't imagine that's part of "an education" until the
> child has the skills and life experience to differentiate between desirable
> and undesirable language, behavior, and custom.
>
> I'm not a victim, that's not my point of any of this. Rather, I CHOOSE to
> actively parent, to be very aware of my kids and to try to maintain some
> semblance of order in our house, whether it's enforcement of safety rules
> (like no swinging a sword at your little brother's head or stopping the
> swordfight until I can help them have one safetly, whereas he would just let
> them go at it until somebody - always the baby - gets hurt), or just plain
> procedures to maximize good hygiene (like accompanying Xie to the toilet
> where I've seen that he needs further assistance and guidance in learning to
> pee standing up, because he's getting it all over himself, the floor, and
> his clothes - whereas my husband just yells to him from the other room
> whether he's "okay"), or somewhat regularly scheduled eating intervals
> (somehow on weekends he doesn't present food at least three times a day
> because he says he isn't hungry - hello, they're children who typically eat
> three
> times a day during the week, and when he doesn't offer them something to
> eat, the baby comes to me to nurse). And really, despite the level of
> detail here, I'm not so difficult to get along with that I can't make
> friends. I used to have a nice network of friends when we lived in Tucson,
> and I made friends quickly with a family that lived across the street from
> the house we had in Illinois briefly, and I've maintained some of those
> friendships while we've moved back and forth across the country like
> gypsies. I'm just feeling like there is no substitute for having a
> girlfriend over, even with her kids, during the day and being able to get a
> few things done while she's here because she can help with my chilren or
> help ME.
>
> I do value your offer of virtual friendship. And I was in tears reading
> your posts, touched by your warmth. And I WILL do some of the reading you
> suggested. And I won't forget to savor the "good moments" with my babies.
> I WILL make adjustments. I'm not a lost cause. There are just times when I
> feel like the weight of the world is on MY shoulders, alone, and would love
> to have a mother, grandmother, husband, close friend who could come over, to
> just "fight the good fight" WITH me. Instead of feeling like a mule chained
> to a heavy load, wishing I was a big powerful clydesdale (spelling?) pulling
> on a team that would get us to where we're going so much faster that we'd
> probably have time to run wild in the field and eat the tall grass. And my
> main concern is that all of my struggles, mental, emotional, whatever, are
> being "passed onto" my boys. The bottom line is that I want to change,
> better myself, make a better environment for them,
> and to lay a better framework for helping them learn the things they need
> to know in order to get to where they want in their lives.
>
> I'm actually a lawyer. I came from a family of divorce and remarriage of
> both parents. My father was especially controlling, and continues to try to
> be. His family is Italian, Catholic, and not formally educated (except for
> me and a few other same generation cousins) and maintained a strict
> hierarchy of governance that was headed by his mother, until her death two
> Augusts ago. There were plenty of family rules, plenty of SHOULDS, and
> CAN'Ts. I became a lawyer to "show them" that I COULD. My mother (who died
> in 1991) was Armenian, from a differently controlling family that stressed
> conformity to overarching "American" ways - including a husband who worked,
> a stay at home mother with beauty school training who could "do hair" in the
> basement for money on the side, and who took pride in cooking, cleaning, and
> getting the children to and from school. My mother divorced my father,
> never went to beauty school, remarried a man with a couple
> kids, had my brother, and initiated our move in the 1980's from Illinois to
> Arizona, after which "The FAmily" stopped talking to her. She was a
> "maverick." And so, I like to think that I got the best of both worlds from
> my parents. Though I have spent considerable time (and money) in
> "counseling" trying to forge my OWN path.
>
> And SO, here I am, trying to unschool mySELF (unsure of this context) and
> wanting more, or should I say LESS, for my own children... wanting them to
> find their own right path without forcing them down MY "right path." I'm
> discovering that I'm not entirely sure what is my right path.
>
> Okay, getting too deep for 4:30am and probably alienating members. I'll
> stop. And I'm going back to bed. For now.
> Very sincerely,
> Deborah.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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Mike and Michelle
Wow! My name is Michelle and we have seven children ranging in age from 15 months to 18 years old. Two of them will be 3 in December, so we have 3 littles under the age of 3 :) Life can get pretty hectic around here, but that is a good thing! I have made a few suggestions based on how we do things in our home and also based on what we are learning as we attempt to adjust to this new lifestyle of RUing :) If I am way off base here, please let me know. I am also a wife who truly appreciates her husband and the fact that he works so hard so I can stay home and raise our children. My husband is not demanding but our relationship has always been one of mutual respect toward each other (kind of RU amongst the two of us :). Now we are learning to treat our children with that same respect. Mike and I don't always do things the same, or look at things the same way. If something is bothering him but not me, then he will take care of it! Maybe some of the things you are worried about really don't bother him?
It is absolutely exhausting. I HATE to do it. I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is like a ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church, WHEREVER. It's awful.
Don't take them to these places if they are not ready for it yet! Is there an enclosed park you can take them to? a gym? Most public elementaries have enclosed playgrounds that are available for use after school hours.
We are just beginning our adventure with radical unschooling. I do feel that the respect we are giving to our children through RU, should also count for anybody else in our lives! Including our husbands!
Michelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>... in protest, but if I let him just go, he tries to run in the opposite direction from me - while my big boy is riding like the wind the other direction. It's exhausting chaos and isn't even REMOTELY fun. I feel like all I'm doing is complaining, but this is very seriously the state of things. My kids are like wild horses when you open the gates.Take them to a park or some place they can actually run and be wild, someplace without restrictions. Someplace where they are free to choose their direction. This will help you also and you won't feel like you need to constantly be yelling at them. With 3 under the age of 3, I know it can be difficult without help. There are times I am running in all directions. But it can be done. Give them enough space where they can wonder off (still in your site) but still close enough for you to catch them if need be. Then sit and relax and watch them play.
>I see other kids staying close to their parents in the mall or at the park, and am reduced almost to tears thinking I have somehow failed to "do" something or impart some information to them to impress upon either of them how important it is to be near me at important times.Each child has their own personality and comparing them with other children is not fair to them! Our children will not stay next to us either. It is not part of their make up. They are too curious and adventurous! Adjust the environments you place them in to suite their personalities.
It is absolutely exhausting. I HATE to do it. I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is like a ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church, WHEREVER. It's awful.
Don't take them to these places if they are not ready for it yet! Is there an enclosed park you can take them to? a gym? Most public elementaries have enclosed playgrounds that are available for use after school hours.
>REally, I'm sure the neighbors (and anybody else who happens to catch a glimpse of me) think I'm a joke.Who cares? Let them think what they want to! Focus on your children and your family!
>But there is no way on earth that I can paint "little by little" or do the sanding and patching that has to be done.Why not? It can be done, even with little ones! Close the door, place a piece of plastic on the floor to protect the flooring, give them little paint brushes and ask them if they would like to help! If they get paint on them 'oh well'. Just make sure they start out with old clothes on :) I did this not to long ago and all 3 little one's had paint in their hair, clothes and body! But they had a blast and I got my older daughter's room painted! It doesn't have to be perfect!
>HOWEVER, (this will be one illustration of my husband's atttitude about things), we paid a painter to remove the border and paint the entire room a sort of "new house beige." And my husband bought himself an oversized l-shaped sofa with 4 recliners built in, and a 47" TV with a new theater and sound system.Good for him! He wanted something done and he made it happen! Sometimes it's hard not to be jealous or upset with people because they are doing things we wish we could do. But we too can do the things we want! Involve your children in the process if they want to help (and usually little ones do!) They may not do it the exact way you want it done, but they will be enjoying themselves, and the task will be getting done :)
>I hate TV in general, can't tolerate the constant "noise." I HAVE NOWHERE TO "GO" TO FIND MY PEACE AND SOLACE.This chapter in your life will be gone before you know it. Believe it or not you will miss the constant "noise" and you will tire of all the peace and solace you will have!
>I don't really appreciate him, no.You should! He works hard outside of the house so you can stay home with your children (Which is extremely hard work!).
>I don't appreciate feeling like I am a housekeeper.If you want the house clean, and it seems as if no-body else does, Then you are. Maybe it just doesn't bother him? Most housewives are housekeepers, cooks, seamstresses, nurses, etc. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to keep the house clean don't. If it bothers him, he will pick things up :)
>Or a nanny.You are a mom!
>I feel like his parenting is so absolutely and completely divergent from mine, that I am so shocked, disappointed, irritated, and generally dismayed, that I find it difficult to just "turn that all off" (or maybe I should say "turn on" ) and let it all pass while we connect as spouses.Why does his parenting skills have to be like yours? It would be nice if they were similar techniques, but they don't have to be! You cannot control how he parents. Each parent contributes to the raising of their children the way that they feel best. I guarentee he loves his children!
>He is a hard-worker, with decent morals,GREAT!!!
>He does not follow "my" procedures for running the home.He doesn't HAVE to!
>And my big boy has already keyed into the idea that there are two sets of rules / ways of doing things: The way mom does things while dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is home.Could this be because a big deal is made out of it? Many homes run a little differently when daddy gets home!
>And lately he has started telling our son to "ask Momma."Could he be saving peace? Could he be feeling like it's easier to send him to you? It is obvious that you don't feel like your husband could make one correct decision about your children, only your "rules" and decisions are the right ones. Maybe he is choosing to keep things calm for his children?
>DId I mention that I hate the tv? And the way it divides our family.It doesn't have to! Sit down and watch it with him and relax! You may not like football, but I'm assuming somewhere behind all of your exhaustion and frustration, there is something you still like about your husband!
>(like accompanying Xie to the toilet where I've seen that he needs further assistance and guidance in learning to pee standing up, because he's getting it all over himself, the floor, and his clothes - whereas my husband just yells to him from the other room whether he's "okay"),Maybe he isn't ready to 'stand and pee' yet. Have you tried sitting him on the toilet backwards? Maybe that would be more comfortable for him?
>or somewhat regularly scheduled eating intervals (somehow on weekends he doesn't present food at least three times a day because he says he isn't hungry - hello, they're children who typically eat threeThere are many times during the day that our 3 little's say they are not hungry. We do not force them to eat. They will eat when they are hungry or when they feel they have the time to eat :) My obsessive behavior of making meals at set times still continues! But that doesn't mean they have to eat with me! The other night one of our 3 year olds was finally ready to eat at 11 p.m.! So that is when he ate his supper :)
> times a day during the week, and when he doesn't offer them something to eat, the baby comes to me to nurse).
We are just beginning our adventure with radical unschooling. I do feel that the respect we are giving to our children through RU, should also count for anybody else in our lives! Including our husbands!
Michelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Gehrke
Okay Deborah,
This is your chance. I hear what your saying, all of it. I get it. I
have been there.
Now remember the part where you said the suggestions offered by the
people on this board were not going to goin vain?
Here are a few suggestions.
First you have two active smart kiddos who want to party! They want
to run and play and do not want to go to the mall unless it is to buy
them a toy. They do not want to sit still or follow quiet directions.
Go to a big park and play ball with them. If you need to sit and
relax find the biggest indoor play area, AKA Mcdonalds, and let them
run.
Take them to a pool and swim them for a few hours. Make bubbles, play
playdough. Fill up some dirt with some water and spend and afternoon
playing in the mud.
We live somewhere there is a long winter. We often have tropical
days. We turn up the woodstove, wear summer clothes, turn on the
tunes and have dance contests.
Eighteen month olds run into the street sometimes. Especially if the
game works good for mama to come chase. Really focus on chasing and
playing that has nothing to do with what he should not be doing.
Four year olds are absolutely the most question asking , authority
questioning not yet adults. It is GREAT! It gives you a chance to
question what you believe. So before you answer him.. Ask yourself
what can I do to help him get what he wants for both of us to have
joy?! If I say yes what is the worst thing that will happen? What is
the best thing that could happen?
Our kids want our passion. They want us to notice and be intense with
them. If they cannot find our joy then what?
Find some other unschoolers!!!!! Do not hang with the people who are
micromanaging their kids! Hang with the folks who have what you want.
As far as your house, forgive me, but quit being a victim. Buy a can
of paint and do it! If you put plastic and duct tape the edges the
kids can help. THEY REALLY CAN! Or get up an hour before they do and
paint then.
Keeping up with day to day stuff can feel monotonous. Buy a shopvac.
It can suck up socks, papers, food. Then you can trudge through the
house and say do we want this.... NOPE suck it up! Gone clean. You
are not a maid, or a nanny.. GET THAT GONE> You hold the most
important position that can be held. You are given this honor.
Remember not to take stereotypes home with you. YOU MATTER< WHAT YOU
DO IN A DAY MATTERS> I truly believe that there is nothing that
matters more. NOTHING>
Find a schedule for yourself as far as house stuff. 25 minutes in the
morning, or evening or after lunch with Sponge Bob on. Put on some
relaxing music and think of it as your workout. That 25 minutes you
decide what things you want done and make it so.
It sounds like you and dh are in a power struggle. That you are not
happy in your own self right this minute so finding hapiness to share
with him or the kids becomes a struggle. Say to yourself what do I
like about this man. When he walks in thank him for that thing. When
I focus on the things I like about my hubby we are in a much nicer
space.You and he are not in a contest of who is right. You need to
find ways to like who each of you are. Remember what you liked about
him to start with.
I hope you can really hear the caring concern this post is written
with.
Kathleen
This is your chance. I hear what your saying, all of it. I get it. I
have been there.
Now remember the part where you said the suggestions offered by the
people on this board were not going to goin vain?
Here are a few suggestions.
First you have two active smart kiddos who want to party! They want
to run and play and do not want to go to the mall unless it is to buy
them a toy. They do not want to sit still or follow quiet directions.
Go to a big park and play ball with them. If you need to sit and
relax find the biggest indoor play area, AKA Mcdonalds, and let them
run.
Take them to a pool and swim them for a few hours. Make bubbles, play
playdough. Fill up some dirt with some water and spend and afternoon
playing in the mud.
We live somewhere there is a long winter. We often have tropical
days. We turn up the woodstove, wear summer clothes, turn on the
tunes and have dance contests.
Eighteen month olds run into the street sometimes. Especially if the
game works good for mama to come chase. Really focus on chasing and
playing that has nothing to do with what he should not be doing.
Four year olds are absolutely the most question asking , authority
questioning not yet adults. It is GREAT! It gives you a chance to
question what you believe. So before you answer him.. Ask yourself
what can I do to help him get what he wants for both of us to have
joy?! If I say yes what is the worst thing that will happen? What is
the best thing that could happen?
Our kids want our passion. They want us to notice and be intense with
them. If they cannot find our joy then what?
Find some other unschoolers!!!!! Do not hang with the people who are
micromanaging their kids! Hang with the folks who have what you want.
As far as your house, forgive me, but quit being a victim. Buy a can
of paint and do it! If you put plastic and duct tape the edges the
kids can help. THEY REALLY CAN! Or get up an hour before they do and
paint then.
Keeping up with day to day stuff can feel monotonous. Buy a shopvac.
It can suck up socks, papers, food. Then you can trudge through the
house and say do we want this.... NOPE suck it up! Gone clean. You
are not a maid, or a nanny.. GET THAT GONE> You hold the most
important position that can be held. You are given this honor.
Remember not to take stereotypes home with you. YOU MATTER< WHAT YOU
DO IN A DAY MATTERS> I truly believe that there is nothing that
matters more. NOTHING>
Find a schedule for yourself as far as house stuff. 25 minutes in the
morning, or evening or after lunch with Sponge Bob on. Put on some
relaxing music and think of it as your workout. That 25 minutes you
decide what things you want done and make it so.
It sounds like you and dh are in a power struggle. That you are not
happy in your own self right this minute so finding hapiness to share
with him or the kids becomes a struggle. Say to yourself what do I
like about this man. When he walks in thank him for that thing. When
I focus on the things I like about my hubby we are in a much nicer
space.You and he are not in a contest of who is right. You need to
find ways to like who each of you are. Remember what you liked about
him to start with.
I hope you can really hear the caring concern this post is written
with.
Kathleen
Meredith
It sounds like you have two very active kids! You're probably
thinking "well duh" to that, but its really an important point to
keep in mind - some children really do just stay close to mom. I
don't have any of those children, either ;) but mine were almost 8yrs
apart, so I had a little more space to breathe. It did and still does
help, though, to remind myself on a regular basis "I have active
kids". Its not me, not something I'm doing wrong (or right, for that
matter) its just biology.
Since you have a largish house and two active kids, can you arrange
part of the house as more of an indoor playground? It probably seems
that way already, but I mean do it really conciously. I used to have
a plastic slide I kept in the living room. My partner's mother used
to have a whole jungle-gym built into a niche in her dining-room (you
can see where my kids get some of their activeness). At various times
(my house is small, so we rotate large toys) I've had a
rocking "boat", a tunnel, a skateboard (shoved all the furniture to
one side of the room), a big ball with a handle (bouncing), a
punching bag (the kind with the weight at the bottom, great for
wrestling), a sit-n-spin. I've heard tell of unschoolers with swings
and climbing walls in their homes and I've met an unschooling family
with enough space to ride small bikes and scooters indoors.
Active kids, as you know, are on the go all the time. So investing in
ways for them to play Large in the house can keep you sane. Clean
with a broom and snow-shovel if you have to! We did when we had the
skateboard in the house - just shoved everything to one side and
picked through it all when we had time. Happily, the Big toys tend to
result in less mess. All the fun is in interacting with the toy in a
big, physical way.
only parent in the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a
housekeeper. Or a nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what
he "does for me." There are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting
and his spouse-ing.
****************************
That sounds like a really stressful situation. I used to have *tons*
of resentment towards my stepson's mother - it seemed like she
was "using me" as her nanny, housekeeper, etc. It took a concious
effort on my part to remind myself, over and over, that I was
choosing to do what I was doing For Ray, and that I was glad to be
able to care for him. That was important for my relationship with
Ray - if I was putting a lot of energy into resenting his mom, it
made it much much harder for me to deal with him when he looked or
acted like his mom. In the longer run, it has also helped me
appreciate the things his mom does do.
dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is
home.
************************
Yikes. Have you and your dh ever talked about your principles/values?
or about what kinds of people you want your kids to grow into? I
don't mean doctors and lawyers I mean kind, thoughtful... those sorts
of things? It helps to have some common ground. Then you can go on to
talking about how to get there - how does someone learn xyz?
This isn't the sort of thing you can talk about when things are
tense, though. It needs a calm, peaceful time. If you don't have
those times right now, you can start from a different place, and tell
happy stories about your day Every Day. You might need to practice
for awhile - tell yourself a happy story about the day every day for
a month so you get in the habit of really noticing the good stuff.
Then, when dh comes home and you're tired and the kids are bouncing
off the walls and the house looks like the aftermath of a circus you
can tell some sweet or fun story and help him have some context.
Maybe email him a story a day at work, or some cute kid-pix or
something.
Telling positive stories helps him connect with you and the kids.
Right now, it may be hard for him to imagine your life - what can you
possibly be doing all day? So tell/show him! The Important thing -
and its Really Really important, too - is to tell/show the Good
Stuff, so that you wanting to be home and unschool doesn't seem so
crazy from his perspective.
Now, as to how to pitch redesigning the house into an indoor
playground... here's a link to a page on "Multiple Intelligences"
that may give you a place to start. Your guys are Kinesthetic
learners! School's the worst place for them - they'll be penalized
for wanting to learn with their whole bodies. You can tell your dh
that you've done some research on learning styles and this is good
for the kids. Maybe he'll go for it - it has the advantage of being
true, anyway.
http://www.newhorizons.org/strategies/mi/dickinson_mi.html
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
thinking "well duh" to that, but its really an important point to
keep in mind - some children really do just stay close to mom. I
don't have any of those children, either ;) but mine were almost 8yrs
apart, so I had a little more space to breathe. It did and still does
help, though, to remind myself on a regular basis "I have active
kids". Its not me, not something I'm doing wrong (or right, for that
matter) its just biology.
Since you have a largish house and two active kids, can you arrange
part of the house as more of an indoor playground? It probably seems
that way already, but I mean do it really conciously. I used to have
a plastic slide I kept in the living room. My partner's mother used
to have a whole jungle-gym built into a niche in her dining-room (you
can see where my kids get some of their activeness). At various times
(my house is small, so we rotate large toys) I've had a
rocking "boat", a tunnel, a skateboard (shoved all the furniture to
one side of the room), a big ball with a handle (bouncing), a
punching bag (the kind with the weight at the bottom, great for
wrestling), a sit-n-spin. I've heard tell of unschoolers with swings
and climbing walls in their homes and I've met an unschooling family
with enough space to ride small bikes and scooters indoors.
Active kids, as you know, are on the go all the time. So investing in
ways for them to play Large in the house can keep you sane. Clean
with a broom and snow-shovel if you have to! We did when we had the
skateboard in the house - just shoved everything to one side and
picked through it all when we had time. Happily, the Big toys tend to
result in less mess. All the fun is in interacting with the toy in a
big, physical way.
>> Being appreciated or appreciating my husband? Yeah. I don'treally appreciate him, no. I don't appreciate feeling like I am the
only parent in the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a
housekeeper. Or a nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what
he "does for me." There are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting
and his spouse-ing.
****************************
That sounds like a really stressful situation. I used to have *tons*
of resentment towards my stepson's mother - it seemed like she
was "using me" as her nanny, housekeeper, etc. It took a concious
effort on my part to remind myself, over and over, that I was
choosing to do what I was doing For Ray, and that I was glad to be
able to care for him. That was important for my relationship with
Ray - if I was putting a lot of energy into resenting his mom, it
made it much much harder for me to deal with him when he looked or
acted like his mom. In the longer run, it has also helped me
appreciate the things his mom does do.
>And my big boy has already keyed into the idea that there are twosets of rules / ways of doing things: The way mom does things while
dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is
home.
************************
Yikes. Have you and your dh ever talked about your principles/values?
or about what kinds of people you want your kids to grow into? I
don't mean doctors and lawyers I mean kind, thoughtful... those sorts
of things? It helps to have some common ground. Then you can go on to
talking about how to get there - how does someone learn xyz?
This isn't the sort of thing you can talk about when things are
tense, though. It needs a calm, peaceful time. If you don't have
those times right now, you can start from a different place, and tell
happy stories about your day Every Day. You might need to practice
for awhile - tell yourself a happy story about the day every day for
a month so you get in the habit of really noticing the good stuff.
Then, when dh comes home and you're tired and the kids are bouncing
off the walls and the house looks like the aftermath of a circus you
can tell some sweet or fun story and help him have some context.
Maybe email him a story a day at work, or some cute kid-pix or
something.
Telling positive stories helps him connect with you and the kids.
Right now, it may be hard for him to imagine your life - what can you
possibly be doing all day? So tell/show him! The Important thing -
and its Really Really important, too - is to tell/show the Good
Stuff, so that you wanting to be home and unschool doesn't seem so
crazy from his perspective.
Now, as to how to pitch redesigning the house into an indoor
playground... here's a link to a page on "Multiple Intelligences"
that may give you a place to start. Your guys are Kinesthetic
learners! School's the worst place for them - they'll be penalized
for wanting to learn with their whole bodies. You can tell your dh
that you've done some research on learning styles and this is good
for the kids. Maybe he'll go for it - it has the advantage of being
true, anyway.
http://www.newhorizons.org/strategies/mi/dickinson_mi.html
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Faith Void
Meredith I loved your ideas!
We also use those large physical therapy balls indoors (and out). We keep a
wide variety of balls for indoor play. I "know" you aren't suppose to play
ball inside but it works for us. Really I don't have much that is breakable
but the couple things I do I put up out of the way. We even do it in the
"big TV room" and nothing has happened to the TV either. My kids climb,
bounce, somersaults on our couches...we got couches that aren't super nice
(used leather ones, easy to wipe clean). Right now my ds (almost 6) is
running and doing tumbles and jumps on my bed, which is on the floor. DS
*NEEDS* lots of activity. He has a bunk bed that is perfect for climb up and
jumping off (we put the bottom mattress on the floor and/or stuffies). We
have a rope ladder inside. we haven't hung that up yet but are hoping to do
it this weekend. We don't have this now but we use to have a succesion of
mini-trampolines, we have a big one out back now that we have a yard. My
kids also slide in trash bags or plastic totes down the carpeted stairs. We
recently bought a small tent for a buck and filled that with stuffies and it
is great to roll around in or jump into. DS is very tactile and needs to
bump into things and hit against things and roll around in things...etc. We
also bring skateboards and scooters in the house. The bottom floor has a
circuit that the kids run around. The baby walks/runs that many. many times
a day, lol.
We have cleared out the kitchen cabinets so that ds and dd(13 months) can
climb in and through it. When it is hot we keep the tub filled for water
play. And in the winter after we turn on the heat too.
You can make tunnels and such by getting a ball of yarn and letting one or
both of the kids "sew up" the house. My ds loves to do that he weaves a web
and crawls around. It is serious work. It is intricate. When they are done
cut the yarn and throw away. If you are concerned about money get it off
freecycle or craigslist.
I like the idea of a jungle gym in the house. I think that might be a great
winter project for me.
Anyway, as the mama of three very spirited kids I understand keeping up. We
use to trek to playgrounds frequently but then ds stopped enjoying leaviing
the house, so I got creative.
best wishes,
Faith
*****************Since you have a largish house and two active kids, can you
arrange part of the house as more of an indoor playground? It probably seems
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We also use those large physical therapy balls indoors (and out). We keep a
wide variety of balls for indoor play. I "know" you aren't suppose to play
ball inside but it works for us. Really I don't have much that is breakable
but the couple things I do I put up out of the way. We even do it in the
"big TV room" and nothing has happened to the TV either. My kids climb,
bounce, somersaults on our couches...we got couches that aren't super nice
(used leather ones, easy to wipe clean). Right now my ds (almost 6) is
running and doing tumbles and jumps on my bed, which is on the floor. DS
*NEEDS* lots of activity. He has a bunk bed that is perfect for climb up and
jumping off (we put the bottom mattress on the floor and/or stuffies). We
have a rope ladder inside. we haven't hung that up yet but are hoping to do
it this weekend. We don't have this now but we use to have a succesion of
mini-trampolines, we have a big one out back now that we have a yard. My
kids also slide in trash bags or plastic totes down the carpeted stairs. We
recently bought a small tent for a buck and filled that with stuffies and it
is great to roll around in or jump into. DS is very tactile and needs to
bump into things and hit against things and roll around in things...etc. We
also bring skateboards and scooters in the house. The bottom floor has a
circuit that the kids run around. The baby walks/runs that many. many times
a day, lol.
We have cleared out the kitchen cabinets so that ds and dd(13 months) can
climb in and through it. When it is hot we keep the tub filled for water
play. And in the winter after we turn on the heat too.
You can make tunnels and such by getting a ball of yarn and letting one or
both of the kids "sew up" the house. My ds loves to do that he weaves a web
and crawls around. It is serious work. It is intricate. When they are done
cut the yarn and throw away. If you are concerned about money get it off
freecycle or craigslist.
I like the idea of a jungle gym in the house. I think that might be a great
winter project for me.
Anyway, as the mama of three very spirited kids I understand keeping up. We
use to trek to playgrounds frequently but then ds stopped enjoying leaviing
the house, so I got creative.
best wishes,
Faith
*****************Since you have a largish house and two active kids, can you
arrange part of the house as more of an indoor playground? It probably seems
> that way already, but I mean do it really conciously. I used to have--
> a plastic slide I kept in the living room. My partner's mother used
> to have a whole jungle-gym built into a niche in her dining-room (you
> can see where my kids get some of their activeness). At various times
> (my house is small, so we rotate large toys) I've had a
> rocking "boat", a tunnel, a skateboard (shoved all the furniture to
> one side of the room), a big ball with a handle (bouncing), a
> punching bag (the kind with the weight at the bottom, great for
> wrestling), a sit-n-spin. I've heard tell of unschoolers with swings
> and climbing walls in their homes and I've met an unschooling family
> with enough space to ride small bikes and scooters indoors.
>
http://faithvoid.blogspot.com/
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
>> And my big boy has already keyed into the idea that there are twoThere is some conventional wisdom that says parents have to have
> sets of rules / ways of doing things: The way mom does things while
> dad is at work, and the way he (the child) can do things when dad is
> home.
consistent expectations of the kids. But I don't think that is true. I
know a LOT of wonderful 2-parent families and I'd say that in ALL of
them the parents have different ways of doing things. The kids figure
it out. The problem isn't when the parents are different, the problem
is when they are in contradiction in basic principles. Mom can expect
kids to wear socks and shoes when bike riding and dad can let them go
without, that kind of thing is common and to be expected. Accept those
kinds of differences. Maybe if you don't think of them as "rules" but
more as mom's and dad's expectations it will be easier for you to
accept that those expectations don't have to be the same.
Don't try to make your husband into a copy of you. It won't be a good
copy and it won't be authentic and everyone will be resentful.
Instead, think together about the overall basic principles that you DO
agree on. What is REALLY important to both of you with regard to the
kids? Probably, when you get down to it, it will be that they grow up
with good character - what does that mean to you? Talk at that level -
that's where you need to agree.
And look really hard at what your husband DOES offer to the kids that
you don't - dads aren't moms - honor that.
-pam
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian <says
kathleen
>good
> Don't try to make your husband into a copy of you. It won't be a
> copy and it won't be authentic and everyone will be resentful.Oh Pam thanks. That is a really great quote and I appreciate it.
>
kathleen
Ariana Zora Ziminsky
This is going out to Stephanie:
The type of behavior you mention here could indicate that your husband is depressed. It's common among men, yet often is not diagnosed because it isn't seen as depression - there is no crying, etc., or what we women often think of as depression. Sometimes all it takes is for a man to realize he is depressed to then decide "Oh, gee, I don't want to be depressed anymore. How do I fix this?"
As unschooling moms, we work hard to give our children LOTS of focused, undistracted time; we observe them, get to know them, and, perhaps most importantly, just CONNECT with them simply by spending hours and hours with them. When my children get enough time and attention from me, things naturally go smoothly. It's the same with a marriage: When DH and I get wrapped up in things outside of each other (work, kids, projects, etc.), our marriage suffers simply from the lack of time and focus on one another. If we shut out everything in the outside world and just hang out, goof off, make cookies together, drink a morning coffee together, we make a connection and I can relax just knowing he is there.
We went down a similar road a while ago, and luckily, my husband had a somewhat of an awakening, and is again the wonderful man I married eight years ago. (I also grew in many ways thanks to our whole experience, and continue to do so - it certainly is not a one-way street.) He would love having a spotless house and dinner on the table every night; I would love to present him with that! However I don't know how to do that and still be the mom my kids need. Maybe it's possible? Maybe it's a totally unrealistic expectation. Honesly, I don't know and probably never will! :) But I do what is most important and I do what I *can* do, and at the end of the day, I know that *I* have given it my all. My DH thank goodness has come to appreciate that. I, in turn, don't demand perfection of him, and am appreciative of what he can do, too.
Really, I have found the relationship with my husband to be a fully integral part of how I succeed (and how I feel!) as an unschooling mother. You can sweep issues under the rug for a while, but they are always there, and will be expressed through your children whether you try to cover them up or not.
- Ariana
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> My dh works long hours.> When he comes home he likes to eat, shower, and watch tv till he goes to> sleep. Sometimes we barely talk. The kids and I want his attention. We've> told him this hundreds of times. He likes the house to be very clean when he> gets home. So the kids and I rush around trying to pick up everything, wash> dishes, etc. <snip> I think the way Dh is with us> really effects us. He's also not very supportive of unschooling.This is a really, really important piece of the unschooling puzzle. Even if your husband is not 100 percent supportive of unschooling, he needs to be supportive of you and your children, and house cleanliness, dinner-on-the-table, etc., should be a lower priority for him, even if he is a Type A neat freak. Most important, your DH needs to spend time with you and your children -- as much time as possible, until your cups are full of daddy/husband time and the resentment building up in your heart (and the kids' hearts) dissolves.
The type of behavior you mention here could indicate that your husband is depressed. It's common among men, yet often is not diagnosed because it isn't seen as depression - there is no crying, etc., or what we women often think of as depression. Sometimes all it takes is for a man to realize he is depressed to then decide "Oh, gee, I don't want to be depressed anymore. How do I fix this?"
As unschooling moms, we work hard to give our children LOTS of focused, undistracted time; we observe them, get to know them, and, perhaps most importantly, just CONNECT with them simply by spending hours and hours with them. When my children get enough time and attention from me, things naturally go smoothly. It's the same with a marriage: When DH and I get wrapped up in things outside of each other (work, kids, projects, etc.), our marriage suffers simply from the lack of time and focus on one another. If we shut out everything in the outside world and just hang out, goof off, make cookies together, drink a morning coffee together, we make a connection and I can relax just knowing he is there.
We went down a similar road a while ago, and luckily, my husband had a somewhat of an awakening, and is again the wonderful man I married eight years ago. (I also grew in many ways thanks to our whole experience, and continue to do so - it certainly is not a one-way street.) He would love having a spotless house and dinner on the table every night; I would love to present him with that! However I don't know how to do that and still be the mom my kids need. Maybe it's possible? Maybe it's a totally unrealistic expectation. Honesly, I don't know and probably never will! :) But I do what is most important and I do what I *can* do, and at the end of the day, I know that *I* have given it my all. My DH thank goodness has come to appreciate that. I, in turn, don't demand perfection of him, and am appreciative of what he can do, too.
Really, I have found the relationship with my husband to be a fully integral part of how I succeed (and how I feel!) as an unschooling mother. You can sweep issues under the rug for a while, but they are always there, and will be expressed through your children whether you try to cover them up or not.
- Ariana
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almadoing
Hi Deborah,
I replied to you before saying that when I was where you are the
biggest first step I took was to get more sleep at whatever cost. I
can't emphasise enough how much easier it is to deal with anything
else if you are not a walking zombie of exhaustion.
However, I want to tell you other big things that have moved me to a
better place.
After sleep the next big thing for me is these online groups. I am
also a member of others and recommend AlwaysUnschooled and Peaceful
Partnerships. I immersed myself for months, just reading and reading
and occasionally posting but gradually I realised that bit by bit I
am truly changing. The knock on effect in my family has been great. I
still have plenty of days like yours but there is enough change to
see with great clarity that an unschooling life with my children at
home is not going to drown me. There is so much going on in your post
that will be addressed regularly on these lists and bit by bit I have
been able to shift my thinking and my actions and habits.
And the third big thing that pulled me from where you are atm was
simply my sons becoming that little bit older. It is easy to imagine,
when thay are behaving as you describe, that unless you get a grip on
it right now things will be even worse when they're older. But my
experience is that their growth and development does make things
easier. Once you can trust that they will stop at the road, once you
are able to leave them alone in another room for a few moments, once
they can deal with their own needs for a drink or opening a box etc
etc it makes a huge difference.
FWIW if I saw you out with your kids behaving as you describe I would
NOT think of you as a joke. I would want to help you right there with
the boys and tell you how much I get it because I've been there. I
wish I lived near enough to come round for coffee and help you take a
can of paint to your walls.
Alison
DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
--- In [email protected], D Ferguson <xiezmom@...>
wrote:
Thank you for the advice, guidance, and direction. I don't know
which "area" is most important; most upsetting, but I feel drawn to
talk about being overwhelmed.
meals, keeping enough clean dishes to cook the NEXT meal and eat it,
bathe the kids and squeeze in personal hygiene time for myself, try
to wash some clothes (I'm not even talking about sheets and
towels...), and maybe "DO" something (craft, paint, library???).
Or "take a walk?" I dread it - my almost 4 year old doesn't listen.
Not to ANYthing I say. He won't stay close while we walk, rides his
bike at a pace I can't keep up with, doesn't listen when I yell stop
or a car is coming, and runs into the house to pout if I "get
serious" about trying to have him honor my "rules" for being in the
streets in our neighborhood. And my 18-month old won't just "sit" in
a stroller, little "chubby car" or the homemade "carrier" I worked so
hard on. If I put him down to walk, he pulls his hand from mine or
falls to his knees
the other direction. It's exhausting chaos and isn't even REMOTELY
fun. I feel like all I'm doing is complaining, but this is very
seriously the state of things. My kids are like wild horses when you
open the gates. I see other kids staying close to their parents in
the mall or at the park, and am reduced almost to tears thinking I
have somehow failed to "do" something or impart some information to
them to impress upon either of them how important it is to be near me
at important times. It is absolutely exhausting. I HATE to do it.
I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is like a
ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions
throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church,
WHEREVER. It's awful. And sadly, I mostly stay inside with them
because of it. Even
to occupy him with an actual toy or game, my big boy rides his bike
out of the driveway and down the street with me yelling after him
while trying to corral my baby. It's a joke. REally, I'm sure the
neighbors (and anybody else who happens to catch a glimpse of me)
think I'm a joke.
also somewhat inadequate in that area as well, cleaning on a sort of
needed basis only. There's no schedule like, "clean the sinks on one
day" or vaccum on another day or wash the kitchen floor on another
day. I absolutely feel like I am treading water with weights on my
ankles. But the REAL irritation to me is that almost every room in
this house is still an absolutely DISGUSTING color left from the
previous owners. One room has two walls that are neon orange, and
the other two are bright orange. They used to have wallpaper decals
but I took them down over time. But there is no way on earth that I
can paint "little by little" or do the sanding and patching that has
to be done. Our master bedroom is a disgusting cranberry with a
white-trash special border along the top of the room that doesn't
even match the
entire room. HOWEVER, (this will be one illustration of my husband's
atttitude about things), we paid a painter to remove the border and
paint the entire room a sort of "new house beige." And my husband
bought himself an oversized l-shaped sofa with 4 recliners built in,
and a 47" TV with a new theater and sound system. I hate TV in
general, can't tolerate the constant "noise." I HAVE NOWHERE TO "GO"
TO FIND MY PEACE AND SOLACE. The living room is yellow and maroon (I
kid you not) with our blue-based furniture and decor in it. Our
cranberry bedroom has all of my spa blue and orange bedroom
accessories. I was allowed to have the painters paint the kitchen -
was supposed to go from seafoam green with a maroon border to plain
white, BUT THE GREEN BLED THROUGH and when I brought it to the
painter's attention he got
husband said we'd change out for a gas one, which hasn't happened and
doesn't look like it's GOING to. He keeps saying that I don't
cook "all that much" or "all that well" so can't I just deal with
it. And our "office room" is a fleshy colored pink that is
disgusting in daylight, and we are using two folding tables to
supplement our broken desk that we were supposed to replace with a
black desk system that I found (to match our black piano).
you. Your posts / suggestions are not wasted. But I feel like
without the details of what's bothering me, does it really come
together?
want to share my time or my kids' time with parents who are proud of
letting their babies just "cry it out." HOpe I don't offend anyone
here. Or I'm having a hard time feeling close to people who keep
telling me to wean them saying that doing that will make things soooo
much eeeeasier for me. It won't. Or people who tell me that I'm
selfish for wanting to keep my kids at home while they learn. I feel
like I'm not meeting people who "understand me" or understand that
right now I'm a mother FIRST, and that doesn't necessarily mean that
I am wrong or unbalanced because I don't take my kids to the local
daycare three days a week while I go to Target or enjoy "me" time. I
went to a get together from a meetup.com mom's group that I'm in, in
my town, and upon seeing all the moms ordering drinks with hard liquor
belted out "So am I" except that she was joking. That was her idea
of a joke. Apart from that, I think the group liked me well enough,
but you see where things were headed. I'm in that online mom's
group, I have attended LLL meetings (though they're about 30 minutes
away into the next state - Kansas - and there were no chilren
similarly aged to my big boy), and am pretty sure there is a
homeschool group here in Joplin (though it is the religious-based
faction).
years (I took them for 10 years when I was much younger), so that's a
real treat to get out of the house not just for the 30 minute lesson,
but for the fun of driving there and home without children in the
car - which means I can put all the windows down, listen to whatever
music I want to listen to at whatever volume I want to... It has
been somewhat difficult to make the time to practice, though once I
did it while nursing my 18month old (which wasn't pretty) just so
that I could continue playing instead of stopping to hold him. It's
a loud activity that I haven't been able to do while either child is
sleeping/napping. My husband initiated a weight loss contest at his
office and I'm "unofficially" participating, so I've been working
hard to "do the treatmill" almost everyday (we have one in our
basement).
scheme of things I do feel better after using it. I'd like to learn
to knit. Maybe get into a group that meets occasionally.
only parent in the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a
housekeeper. Or a nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what
he "does for me." There are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting
and his spouse-ing. I feel like his parenting is so absolutely and
completely divergent from mine, that I am so shocked, disappointed,
irritated, and generally dismayed, that I find it difficult to
just "turn that all off" (or maybe I should say "turn on" ) and let
it all pass while we connect as spouses. Which we don't do. He is a
hard-worker, with decent morals, motivated by the desire for
approval. He is an executive level administrator, working for the
State of Missouri. I, on the other hand, do not have a job - as he
reminds me often while trying to make a joke of it to make himself
seem like "a big
me wanting to teach our children at home - saying that I can "barely
manage them all day long" and hand them off to him when he walks in
the door, and then I want to keep them home from school? He does not
follow "my" procedures for running the home. And my big boy has
already keyed into the idea that there are two sets of rules / ways
of doing things: The way mom does things while dad is at work, and
the way he (the child) can do things when dad is home. And I'm
talking about EVERYTHING. If I say that he needs to put his socks
and shoes on to ride his bike(stating a rule of safety), he will then
ask his dad whether he needs to put his socks on and my husband will
say that he DOES "because it's cold out" (implying that if it was
warm, you wouldn't have to wear them) - to which my son will
say, "it's NOT cold
doesn't want to wear socks when it's cold out, then he will simply be
cold (and I typically have extra warm/er clothes in the van. But my
husband offers "bogus" reasons for doing things, especially after I
say something. And lately he has started telling our son to "ask
Momma." So, the responsibility falls back on me. Like the other day
I actually had a few minutes where I was able to take a bath (without
having to bathe the children while I did it) and my husband actually
sent my big boy into the bathroom to ask me whether he could play
with a golf ball inside the house! Well, I answered while reminding
of the house rule (no heavy, hard balls inside the house - it's too
much to monitor with an 18month old) and sent him out of the
bathroom. Minutes later, my husband came in and asked whether I told
Xie that
me that? Does he not know/live by the same house rules that the rest
of us do? My son knows the rule, but lately has taken to testing my
husband's knowledge of all of them. And I don't care whether
somebody wants to tell me that my husband is sooooo busy at work all
day long that when he comes home he wants to "disengage" or
decompress or whateve rthe excuse is. He's not that stupid. He's
just lazy. And he's a lazy parent because he CAN be. meaning,
because I ALWAYS take up the slack. There is no other choice, for me
at least. So, every evening our house is chaotic, loud, and
disorganized, while my kids push the limits of everything and my
husband tries to squeeze in his sports games and whatever TV show he
recorded. DId I mention that I hate the tv? And the way it divides
our family. My husband
can hear each of them (the kids) yelling for him to look at them - he
stares right over them at the TV. Lately it's football - which seems
to be on every day anymore not just monday nights. And my son/s can
be standing on the couch, jumping and walking all over it, while my
husband sits there with his back against it, and I can be in the
other room and I'm to believe that I'm the only one who can HEAR them
getting crazy while he's sitting RIGHT THERE? I won't believe that.
I'm responsible for the lives of two other souls all day long and I
manage to multi-task or do things in a way that I can still manage
their safety. And he cannot? It's downright disgusting to me. So,
I end up being the one who comes into the room, states the rule (sit
down on the couch, or GET down) and the kids see me as the "bad guy."
gets hurt ALWAYS walks into the bathroom crying, at which point, my
private bath time is over.
is "off the schnizzle" (which my almost 4 year old repeats) or
teaching him to do some vulgar movements after hitting a homerun
(which he seems to expect him to do after my husband has a big hit at
a softball game). Or teaching him to sing "Whoop that trick." I
mean, what are we, in junior high? During the day, I teach them
songs like "Doe a Deer" (From The Sound of Music) or to sing the
alphabet - in other words, AGE APPROPRIATE things. He is dumbing
them down with stuff that I would be mortified if either of them ever
actually parroted my husband in public. It's not even "stuff" it's
just stupid crap that I don't think they need to be exposed to at
this tender age, like stupid little quips from the Jim Rome show
(sports "talkshow" if you want to call it that) that my almost 4 year
old repeats with enthusiasm
emulate it. I don't know whether the main unschooling tenets include
exposing your kids to things that are totally age inappropriate,
socially inappropriate, and politically incorrect in the larger
scheme of life, but I'm not a fan of that sort of thing. I can't
imagine that's part of "an education" until the child has the skills
and life experience to differentiate between desirable and
undesirable language, behavior, and custom.
maintain some semblance of order in our house, whether it's
enforcement of safety rules (like no swinging a sword at your little
brother's head or stopping the swordfight until I can help them have
one safetly, whereas he would just let them go at it until somebody -
always the baby - gets hurt), or just plain procedures to maximize
good hygiene (like accompanying Xie to the toilet where I've seen
that he needs further assistance and guidance in learning to pee
standing up, because he's getting it all over himself, the floor, and
his clothes - whereas my husband just yells to him from the other
room whether he's "okay"), or somewhat regularly scheduled eating
intervals (somehow on weekends he doesn't present food at least three
times a day because he says he isn't hungry - hello, they're children
who typically eat three
despite the level of detail here, I'm not so difficult to get along
with that I can't make friends. I used to have a nice network of
friends when we lived in Tucson, and I made friends quickly with a
family that lived across the street from the house we had in Illinois
briefly, and I've maintained some of those friendships while we've
moved back and forth across the country like gypsies. I'm just
feeling like there is no substitute for having a girlfriend over,
even with her kids, during the day and being able to get a few things
done while she's here because she can help with my chilren or help ME.
the reading you suggested. And I won't forget to savor the "good
moments" with my babies. I WILL make adjustments. I'm not a lost
cause. There are just times when I feel like the weight of the world
is on MY shoulders, alone, and would love to have a mother,
grandmother, husband, close friend who could come over, to
just "fight the good fight" WITH me. Instead of feeling like a mule
chained to a heavy load, wishing I was a big powerful clydesdale
(spelling?) pulling on a team that would get us to where we're going
so much faster that we'd probably have time to run wild in the field
and eat the tall grass. And my main concern is that all of my
struggles, mental, emotional, whatever, are being "passed onto" my
boys. The bottom line is that I want to change, better myself, make
a better environment for them,
and continues to try to be. His family is Italian, Catholic, and not
formally educated (except for me and a few other same generation
cousins) and maintained a strict hierarchy of governance that was
headed by his mother, until her death two Augusts ago. There were
plenty of family rules, plenty of SHOULDS, and CAN'Ts. I became a
lawyer to "show them" that I COULD. My mother (who died in 1991) was
Armenian, from a differently controlling family that stressed
conformity to overarching "American" ways - including a husband who
worked, a stay at home mother with beauty school training who
could "do hair" in the basement for money on the side, and who took
pride in cooking, cleaning, and getting the children to and from
school. My mother divorced my father, never went to beauty school,
remarried a man with a couple
her. She was a "maverick." And so, I like to think that I got the
best of both worlds from my parents. Though I have spent
considerable time (and money) in "counseling" trying to forge my OWN
path.
children... wanting them to find their own right path without forcing
them down MY "right path." I'm discovering that I'm not entirely
sure what is my right path.
I replied to you before saying that when I was where you are the
biggest first step I took was to get more sleep at whatever cost. I
can't emphasise enough how much easier it is to deal with anything
else if you are not a walking zombie of exhaustion.
However, I want to tell you other big things that have moved me to a
better place.
After sleep the next big thing for me is these online groups. I am
also a member of others and recommend AlwaysUnschooled and Peaceful
Partnerships. I immersed myself for months, just reading and reading
and occasionally posting but gradually I realised that bit by bit I
am truly changing. The knock on effect in my family has been great. I
still have plenty of days like yours but there is enough change to
see with great clarity that an unschooling life with my children at
home is not going to drown me. There is so much going on in your post
that will be addressed regularly on these lists and bit by bit I have
been able to shift my thinking and my actions and habits.
And the third big thing that pulled me from where you are atm was
simply my sons becoming that little bit older. It is easy to imagine,
when thay are behaving as you describe, that unless you get a grip on
it right now things will be even worse when they're older. But my
experience is that their growth and development does make things
easier. Once you can trust that they will stop at the road, once you
are able to leave them alone in another room for a few moments, once
they can deal with their own needs for a drink or opening a box etc
etc it makes a huge difference.
FWIW if I saw you out with your kids behaving as you describe I would
NOT think of you as a joke. I would want to help you right there with
the boys and tell you how much I get it because I've been there. I
wish I lived near enough to come round for coffee and help you take a
can of paint to your walls.
Alison
DS1 (6) and DS2 (3)
--- In [email protected], D Ferguson <xiezmom@...>
wrote:
>respond to the entire group, so please tell me if this is offensive.
> I'm a little uncertain about whether it is best/most appropriate to
Thank you for the advice, guidance, and direction. I don't know
which "area" is most important; most upsetting, but I feel drawn to
talk about being overwhelmed.
>feel like I'm barely treading water daily, what with just making
> I'm not entirely sure how I can "slow down" or make "less work." I
meals, keeping enough clean dishes to cook the NEXT meal and eat it,
bathe the kids and squeeze in personal hygiene time for myself, try
to wash some clothes (I'm not even talking about sheets and
towels...), and maybe "DO" something (craft, paint, library???).
Or "take a walk?" I dread it - my almost 4 year old doesn't listen.
Not to ANYthing I say. He won't stay close while we walk, rides his
bike at a pace I can't keep up with, doesn't listen when I yell stop
or a car is coming, and runs into the house to pout if I "get
serious" about trying to have him honor my "rules" for being in the
streets in our neighborhood. And my 18-month old won't just "sit" in
a stroller, little "chubby car" or the homemade "carrier" I worked so
hard on. If I put him down to walk, he pulls his hand from mine or
falls to his knees
> in protest, but if I let him just go, he tries to run in theopposite direction from me - while my big boy is riding like the wind
the other direction. It's exhausting chaos and isn't even REMOTELY
fun. I feel like all I'm doing is complaining, but this is very
seriously the state of things. My kids are like wild horses when you
open the gates. I see other kids staying close to their parents in
the mall or at the park, and am reduced almost to tears thinking I
have somehow failed to "do" something or impart some information to
them to impress upon either of them how important it is to be near me
at important times. It is absolutely exhausting. I HATE to do it.
I mostly hate to go almost ANYwhere with them because it is like a
ridiculous circus act, me running in two separate directions
throughout the mall, or the library, park, grocery store, church,
WHEREVER. It's awful. And sadly, I mostly stay inside with them
because of it. Even
> in our yard, the "baby" spends most of our outside time runningfor the street REPEATEDLY. And if I turn my back for a minute to try
to occupy him with an actual toy or game, my big boy rides his bike
out of the driveway and down the street with me yelling after him
while trying to corral my baby. It's a joke. REally, I'm sure the
neighbors (and anybody else who happens to catch a glimpse of me)
think I'm a joke.
>house. It's not so much that there is more to clean, because I am
> But mostly, my feeling of being overwhelmed is compounded by the
also somewhat inadequate in that area as well, cleaning on a sort of
needed basis only. There's no schedule like, "clean the sinks on one
day" or vaccum on another day or wash the kitchen floor on another
day. I absolutely feel like I am treading water with weights on my
ankles. But the REAL irritation to me is that almost every room in
this house is still an absolutely DISGUSTING color left from the
previous owners. One room has two walls that are neon orange, and
the other two are bright orange. They used to have wallpaper decals
but I took them down over time. But there is no way on earth that I
can paint "little by little" or do the sanding and patching that has
to be done. Our master bedroom is a disgusting cranberry with a
white-trash special border along the top of the room that doesn't
even match the
> paint. It is intolerable. When we moved in, the basement wasCocoa cola red, with another trashy border along the top of the
entire room. HOWEVER, (this will be one illustration of my husband's
atttitude about things), we paid a painter to remove the border and
paint the entire room a sort of "new house beige." And my husband
bought himself an oversized l-shaped sofa with 4 recliners built in,
and a 47" TV with a new theater and sound system. I hate TV in
general, can't tolerate the constant "noise." I HAVE NOWHERE TO "GO"
TO FIND MY PEACE AND SOLACE. The living room is yellow and maroon (I
kid you not) with our blue-based furniture and decor in it. Our
cranberry bedroom has all of my spa blue and orange bedroom
accessories. I was allowed to have the painters paint the kitchen -
was supposed to go from seafoam green with a maroon border to plain
white, BUT THE GREEN BLED THROUGH and when I brought it to the
painter's attention he got
> crappy and left me a gallon of white and told my husband to do ithimself. Then there's the issue of the electric stove that my
husband said we'd change out for a gas one, which hasn't happened and
doesn't look like it's GOING to. He keeps saying that I don't
cook "all that much" or "all that well" so can't I just deal with
it. And our "office room" is a fleshy colored pink that is
disgusting in daylight, and we are using two folding tables to
supplement our broken desk that we were supposed to replace with a
black desk system that I found (to match our black piano).
>about ridiculous details of my life. I will make changes. I promise
> This is all sort of a waste of time for readers, as I complain
you. Your posts / suggestions are not wasted. But I feel like
without the details of what's bothering me, does it really come
together?
>meeting. Maybe I expect too much? I don't know. But I really don't
> Friends? I feel like I'm just not "clicking" with the people I'm
want to share my time or my kids' time with parents who are proud of
letting their babies just "cry it out." HOpe I don't offend anyone
here. Or I'm having a hard time feeling close to people who keep
telling me to wean them saying that doing that will make things soooo
much eeeeasier for me. It won't. Or people who tell me that I'm
selfish for wanting to keep my kids at home while they learn. I feel
like I'm not meeting people who "understand me" or understand that
right now I'm a mother FIRST, and that doesn't necessarily mean that
I am wrong or unbalanced because I don't take my kids to the local
daycare three days a week while I go to Target or enjoy "me" time. I
went to a get together from a meetup.com mom's group that I'm in, in
my town, and upon seeing all the moms ordering drinks with hard liquor
> in them, I asked whether anybody was still nursing anybody. Andone of them said "oh yea, I'm secretly nrsing my 3 year old." And I
belted out "So am I" except that she was joking. That was her idea
of a joke. Apart from that, I think the group liked me well enough,
but you see where things were headed. I'm in that online mom's
group, I have attended LLL meetings (though they're about 30 minutes
away into the next state - Kansas - and there were no chilren
similarly aged to my big boy), and am pretty sure there is a
homeschool group here in Joplin (though it is the religious-based
faction).
>much. I recently started taking violin lessons again after about 20
> What gives me joy / what do we do to get out of the house? Nothing
years (I took them for 10 years when I was much younger), so that's a
real treat to get out of the house not just for the 30 minute lesson,
but for the fun of driving there and home without children in the
car - which means I can put all the windows down, listen to whatever
music I want to listen to at whatever volume I want to... It has
been somewhat difficult to make the time to practice, though once I
did it while nursing my 18month old (which wasn't pretty) just so
that I could continue playing instead of stopping to hold him. It's
a loud activity that I haven't been able to do while either child is
sleeping/napping. My husband initiated a weight loss contest at his
office and I'm "unofficially" participating, so I've been working
hard to "do the treatmill" almost everyday (we have one in our
basement).
> That's not really a treat and is hard to do with the two kidsrepeatedly trying to get on it while I'm on it, but in the larger
scheme of things I do feel better after using it. I'd like to learn
to knit. Maybe get into a group that meets occasionally.
>really appreciate him, no. I don't appreciate feeling like I am the
> Being appreciated or appreciating my husband? Yeah. I don't
only parent in the house. I don't appreciate feeling like I am a
housekeeper. Or a nanny. No, I really don't appreciate much of what
he "does for me." There are two issues here, for me. HIs parenting
and his spouse-ing. I feel like his parenting is so absolutely and
completely divergent from mine, that I am so shocked, disappointed,
irritated, and generally dismayed, that I find it difficult to
just "turn that all off" (or maybe I should say "turn on" ) and let
it all pass while we connect as spouses. Which we don't do. He is a
hard-worker, with decent morals, motivated by the desire for
approval. He is an executive level administrator, working for the
State of Missouri. I, on the other hand, do not have a job - as he
reminds me often while trying to make a joke of it to make himself
seem like "a big
> man." His ideas about parenting, SCHOOLING, and directing oursmall children are... well, almost opposite of mine. He makes fun of
me wanting to teach our children at home - saying that I can "barely
manage them all day long" and hand them off to him when he walks in
the door, and then I want to keep them home from school? He does not
follow "my" procedures for running the home. And my big boy has
already keyed into the idea that there are two sets of rules / ways
of doing things: The way mom does things while dad is at work, and
the way he (the child) can do things when dad is home. And I'm
talking about EVERYTHING. If I say that he needs to put his socks
and shoes on to ride his bike(stating a rule of safety), he will then
ask his dad whether he needs to put his socks on and my husband will
say that he DOES "because it's cold out" (implying that if it was
warm, you wouldn't have to wear them) - to which my son will
say, "it's NOT cold
> outside." So, the whole issue morphs into an argument about theweather, rather than a safety rule. I have tried to say that if he
doesn't want to wear socks when it's cold out, then he will simply be
cold (and I typically have extra warm/er clothes in the van. But my
husband offers "bogus" reasons for doing things, especially after I
say something. And lately he has started telling our son to "ask
Momma." So, the responsibility falls back on me. Like the other day
I actually had a few minutes where I was able to take a bath (without
having to bathe the children while I did it) and my husband actually
sent my big boy into the bathroom to ask me whether he could play
with a golf ball inside the house! Well, I answered while reminding
of the house rule (no heavy, hard balls inside the house - it's too
much to monitor with an 18month old) and sent him out of the
bathroom. Minutes later, my husband came in and asked whether I told
Xie that
> he could play with the golf ball in the house, because he lied andsaid that mom said it was okay. Well, duh, why would he have to ask
me that? Does he not know/live by the same house rules that the rest
of us do? My son knows the rule, but lately has taken to testing my
husband's knowledge of all of them. And I don't care whether
somebody wants to tell me that my husband is sooooo busy at work all
day long that when he comes home he wants to "disengage" or
decompress or whateve rthe excuse is. He's not that stupid. He's
just lazy. And he's a lazy parent because he CAN be. meaning,
because I ALWAYS take up the slack. There is no other choice, for me
at least. So, every evening our house is chaotic, loud, and
disorganized, while my kids push the limits of everything and my
husband tries to squeeze in his sports games and whatever TV show he
recorded. DId I mention that I hate the tv? And the way it divides
our family. My husband
> sits staring at the tv with his back against the couch, as ifsitting on the floor is a magical way to be at the kids' level, but I
can hear each of them (the kids) yelling for him to look at them - he
stares right over them at the TV. Lately it's football - which seems
to be on every day anymore not just monday nights. And my son/s can
be standing on the couch, jumping and walking all over it, while my
husband sits there with his back against it, and I can be in the
other room and I'm to believe that I'm the only one who can HEAR them
getting crazy while he's sitting RIGHT THERE? I won't believe that.
I'm responsible for the lives of two other souls all day long and I
manage to multi-task or do things in a way that I can still manage
their safety. And he cannot? It's downright disgusting to me. So,
I end up being the one who comes into the room, states the rule (sit
down on the couch, or GET down) and the kids see me as the "bad guy."
> Plus, if I'm in the tub, I can usually hear the savagery, whichcontinues until someone gets hurt. ALWAYS. And then the child who
gets hurt ALWAYS walks into the bathroom crying, at which point, my
private bath time is over.
>husband uses ghetto slang with them. LIke telling them something
> Oh, and it really undermines my daily guidance of our boys when my
is "off the schnizzle" (which my almost 4 year old repeats) or
teaching him to do some vulgar movements after hitting a homerun
(which he seems to expect him to do after my husband has a big hit at
a softball game). Or teaching him to sing "Whoop that trick." I
mean, what are we, in junior high? During the day, I teach them
songs like "Doe a Deer" (From The Sound of Music) or to sing the
alphabet - in other words, AGE APPROPRIATE things. He is dumbing
them down with stuff that I would be mortified if either of them ever
actually parroted my husband in public. It's not even "stuff" it's
just stupid crap that I don't think they need to be exposed to at
this tender age, like stupid little quips from the Jim Rome show
(sports "talkshow" if you want to call it that) that my almost 4 year
old repeats with enthusiasm
> after my husband "uses" the lines on him. They have the rest oftheir lives to hear all of that and to decide whether they want to
emulate it. I don't know whether the main unschooling tenets include
exposing your kids to things that are totally age inappropriate,
socially inappropriate, and politically incorrect in the larger
scheme of life, but I'm not a fan of that sort of thing. I can't
imagine that's part of "an education" until the child has the skills
and life experience to differentiate between desirable and
undesirable language, behavior, and custom.
>CHOOSE to actively parent, to be very aware of my kids and to try to
> I'm not a victim, that's not my point of any of this. Rather, I
maintain some semblance of order in our house, whether it's
enforcement of safety rules (like no swinging a sword at your little
brother's head or stopping the swordfight until I can help them have
one safetly, whereas he would just let them go at it until somebody -
always the baby - gets hurt), or just plain procedures to maximize
good hygiene (like accompanying Xie to the toilet where I've seen
that he needs further assistance and guidance in learning to pee
standing up, because he's getting it all over himself, the floor, and
his clothes - whereas my husband just yells to him from the other
room whether he's "okay"), or somewhat regularly scheduled eating
intervals (somehow on weekends he doesn't present food at least three
times a day because he says he isn't hungry - hello, they're children
who typically eat three
> times a day during the week, and when he doesn't offer themsomething to eat, the baby comes to me to nurse). And really,
despite the level of detail here, I'm not so difficult to get along
with that I can't make friends. I used to have a nice network of
friends when we lived in Tucson, and I made friends quickly with a
family that lived across the street from the house we had in Illinois
briefly, and I've maintained some of those friendships while we've
moved back and forth across the country like gypsies. I'm just
feeling like there is no substitute for having a girlfriend over,
even with her kids, during the day and being able to get a few things
done while she's here because she can help with my chilren or help ME.
>reading your posts, touched by your warmth. And I WILL do some of
> I do value your offer of virtual friendship. And I was in tears
the reading you suggested. And I won't forget to savor the "good
moments" with my babies. I WILL make adjustments. I'm not a lost
cause. There are just times when I feel like the weight of the world
is on MY shoulders, alone, and would love to have a mother,
grandmother, husband, close friend who could come over, to
just "fight the good fight" WITH me. Instead of feeling like a mule
chained to a heavy load, wishing I was a big powerful clydesdale
(spelling?) pulling on a team that would get us to where we're going
so much faster that we'd probably have time to run wild in the field
and eat the tall grass. And my main concern is that all of my
struggles, mental, emotional, whatever, are being "passed onto" my
boys. The bottom line is that I want to change, better myself, make
a better environment for them,
> and to lay a better framework for helping them learn the thingsthey need to know in order to get to where they want in their lives.
>remarriage of both parents. My father was especially controlling,
> I'm actually a lawyer. I came from a family of divorce and
and continues to try to be. His family is Italian, Catholic, and not
formally educated (except for me and a few other same generation
cousins) and maintained a strict hierarchy of governance that was
headed by his mother, until her death two Augusts ago. There were
plenty of family rules, plenty of SHOULDS, and CAN'Ts. I became a
lawyer to "show them" that I COULD. My mother (who died in 1991) was
Armenian, from a differently controlling family that stressed
conformity to overarching "American" ways - including a husband who
worked, a stay at home mother with beauty school training who
could "do hair" in the basement for money on the side, and who took
pride in cooking, cleaning, and getting the children to and from
school. My mother divorced my father, never went to beauty school,
remarried a man with a couple
> kids, had my brother, and initiated our move in the 1980's fromIllinois to Arizona, after which "The FAmily" stopped talking to
her. She was a "maverick." And so, I like to think that I got the
best of both worlds from my parents. Though I have spent
considerable time (and money) in "counseling" trying to forge my OWN
path.
>context) and wanting more, or should I say LESS, for my own
> And SO, here I am, trying to unschool mySELF (unsure of this
children... wanting them to find their own right path without forcing
them down MY "right path." I'm discovering that I'm not entirely
sure what is my right path.
>I'll stop. And I'm going back to bed. For now.
> Okay, getting too deep for 4:30am and probably alienating members.
> Very sincerely,
> Deborah.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 7, 2008, at 10:16 AM, almadoing wrote:
first. I didn't know how unusually high energy she was until we were
at a big outdoor get-together. One of us stayed with Roya, who was
about 3 years old, following (chasing) her around the huge space
(there was a big fountain, retaining walls, trees, thick bushes, all
kinds of pathways, etc.). When my husband relieved me, I went and
plopped down, exhausted in a chair on a patio overlooking the large
open space. The person sitting near me said, "Wow, I was watching you
and your daughter, you really have your hands full with her." I looked
up and it was Peter - someone I knew was the father of SEVEN
children. A parent of SEVEN children thought my one kid was a
handful. I realized, all at once, that my own kid was more active than
all his seven put together! No wonder I was wiped out.
My second kid was quiet and careful and sometimes I'd suddenly think,
"Oh dear, where is Roxana?" and she'd likely be sitting right next to
me where she'd been happily playing for an hour <G>. I can imagine if
I'd three kids like her, I probably WOULD be wondering what was up
with those whose kids were "running wild."
-pam
> FWIW if I saw you out with your kids behaving as you describe I wouldMe too. I had a WILD and super super super active young child for my
> NOT think of you as a joke. I would want to help you right there with
> the boys and tell you how much I get it because I've been there.
first. I didn't know how unusually high energy she was until we were
at a big outdoor get-together. One of us stayed with Roya, who was
about 3 years old, following (chasing) her around the huge space
(there was a big fountain, retaining walls, trees, thick bushes, all
kinds of pathways, etc.). When my husband relieved me, I went and
plopped down, exhausted in a chair on a patio overlooking the large
open space. The person sitting near me said, "Wow, I was watching you
and your daughter, you really have your hands full with her." I looked
up and it was Peter - someone I knew was the father of SEVEN
children. A parent of SEVEN children thought my one kid was a
handful. I realized, all at once, that my own kid was more active than
all his seven put together! No wonder I was wiped out.
My second kid was quiet and careful and sometimes I'd suddenly think,
"Oh dear, where is Roxana?" and she'd likely be sitting right next to
me where she'd been happily playing for an hour <G>. I can imagine if
I'd three kids like her, I probably WOULD be wondering what was up
with those whose kids were "running wild."
-pam
Meredith
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
was an intense kid from the time I met him. When Mo came along she
was so much easier for me to deal with than Ray that I didn't even
realize that she was pretty gosh darned active herself - until we
started going to playgroups and other moms were saying things
like "Is she like this All the Time?!?" in sort of horrified tones.
I've connected with a few other parents over the years with really
active kids - some more active than mine, some just different. It
helps a lot to connect with parents who *aren't* appalled at how much
energy my kids have and don't try to make "helpful" suggestions that
assume that all this racing around means something is wrong (poor
discipline, food allergies, some condition or syndrome...). It helps
more when those parents are unschoolers, too, and not constantly
battling with their active kids.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>> Me too. I had a WILD and super super super active young child formy
> first. I didn't know how unusually high energy she was until...Ray was wild and over the top active and a bit explosive - I knew he
was an intense kid from the time I met him. When Mo came along she
was so much easier for me to deal with than Ray that I didn't even
realize that she was pretty gosh darned active herself - until we
started going to playgroups and other moms were saying things
like "Is she like this All the Time?!?" in sort of horrified tones.
I've connected with a few other parents over the years with really
active kids - some more active than mine, some just different. It
helps a lot to connect with parents who *aren't* appalled at how much
energy my kids have and don't try to make "helpful" suggestions that
assume that all this racing around means something is wrong (poor
discipline, food allergies, some condition or syndrome...). It helps
more when those parents are unschoolers, too, and not constantly
battling with their active kids.
---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 15)
Tammy Curry
I can relate to having at least one child that runs wild. I have been accused of giving in, not disciplining, all kinds of things including a recommendation to have him tested for ADHD. On the flip side we have had a few friends and neighbors thrilled to death that we have a 101% boy, apparently they are rare finds these days. My daughter has always been the calm quiet one so it is like night and day with them.
I definitely would not have laughed or anything and would have jumped in to help. I know how it feels. I also cannot add anything else to what has been said but you can always email me off list if you need a friendly ear. :)
Tammy C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I definitely would not have laughed or anything and would have jumped in to help. I know how it feels. I also cannot add anything else to what has been said but you can always email me off list if you need a friendly ear. :)
Tammy C.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G Wilhelm
Sorry-
I must have deleted your original post. One thing I haven't seen discussed
is your husbands relationship with your boys. He may use language that you
think is offensive but I wanted to let you know about my life.
My kids are now 20yob, 18yob and 17yog.... I spent too much of their earlier
life cringing at some of the (what I thought at the time) stupid and wrong
things my dh said.... However, I have realized... with the perception of
time... that my dh and my kids have their own relationships, quite different
but non the less -- SPECIAL!!!They can bs now about silly things and use
their own slang and can talk to their dad about many things and in their own
unique way... but I have a different relationship (I am the more serious I
quess - lol), and they can talk to me about more serious things. I used to
think that that made me more important.... but then, I realized, the stupid
idiot I was, and realized that although my kids can always talk to me about
ANYTHING...the (what seems to me) more casual conversations they have with
their dad are just as important to THEM. It is a bond, a connection that
belongs to only them, just like my seemingly more serious connection really
happens with me.
I say this because when my kids were as little as yours, my dh always would
fall asleep watching shows like Baywatch, and I was APPALLED!! I mean, 3 yr
olds shouldn't have been watching Pamela Anderson "bouncing" around and I
was at wits ends.... but my then 3yr old is now 18 and he doesn't remember
tooo much about PA... just the times he spent w/ his dad.
So.... I guess in conclusion, I really only want to reasure you that the
things you think your kids may be picking up from what you think is your
dh's 'bad language/behavior', is really only their own communication with
him. It is special to them and looking down on it can only hinder your
relationship with your kids. Please understand that just because it is
different, doesn't make it less special for your kids. Snizzle my jizzle.
LOL.
Accept that their relationship will be different than your relationship and
revel in the fact that they are blessed to have that option.
I wish you my best and second and third the sleep option... I didn't get
enough sleep for 5 years and realized a long time ago (too late of course)
that sleep deprivation caused my depression and lack of motivation,
etc....... do WHATEVER you can to get your sleep. You can't be a good mother
without sleep!!!
I know that if you think about all the great advice given on this board, in
the spirit that it is given (love, having been there), you will reach the
goal that you desire!!!
Love:)
I must have deleted your original post. One thing I haven't seen discussed
is your husbands relationship with your boys. He may use language that you
think is offensive but I wanted to let you know about my life.
My kids are now 20yob, 18yob and 17yog.... I spent too much of their earlier
life cringing at some of the (what I thought at the time) stupid and wrong
things my dh said.... However, I have realized... with the perception of
time... that my dh and my kids have their own relationships, quite different
but non the less -- SPECIAL!!!They can bs now about silly things and use
their own slang and can talk to their dad about many things and in their own
unique way... but I have a different relationship (I am the more serious I
quess - lol), and they can talk to me about more serious things. I used to
think that that made me more important.... but then, I realized, the stupid
idiot I was, and realized that although my kids can always talk to me about
ANYTHING...the (what seems to me) more casual conversations they have with
their dad are just as important to THEM. It is a bond, a connection that
belongs to only them, just like my seemingly more serious connection really
happens with me.
I say this because when my kids were as little as yours, my dh always would
fall asleep watching shows like Baywatch, and I was APPALLED!! I mean, 3 yr
olds shouldn't have been watching Pamela Anderson "bouncing" around and I
was at wits ends.... but my then 3yr old is now 18 and he doesn't remember
tooo much about PA... just the times he spent w/ his dad.
So.... I guess in conclusion, I really only want to reasure you that the
things you think your kids may be picking up from what you think is your
dh's 'bad language/behavior', is really only their own communication with
him. It is special to them and looking down on it can only hinder your
relationship with your kids. Please understand that just because it is
different, doesn't make it less special for your kids. Snizzle my jizzle.
LOL.
Accept that their relationship will be different than your relationship and
revel in the fact that they are blessed to have that option.
I wish you my best and second and third the sleep option... I didn't get
enough sleep for 5 years and realized a long time ago (too late of course)
that sleep deprivation caused my depression and lack of motivation,
etc....... do WHATEVER you can to get your sleep. You can't be a good mother
without sleep!!!
I know that if you think about all the great advice given on this board, in
the spirit that it is given (love, having been there), you will reach the
goal that you desire!!!
Love:)
amberlee_b
They are quite rare because the schools want them under control and drugged up. Almost
every boy I knew at the PS back in MI was on some form of medication for either ADD,
ADHD, LDD, etc etc. They had the bulk of the "learning disorders". From watching that I
know that it was the teachers need to be in control and the parents wanting "normal" kids
as decided by school officials that turned those boys into drug dazed and "calmer". I
didn't want that for my super active spy boy....
every boy I knew at the PS back in MI was on some form of medication for either ADD,
ADHD, LDD, etc etc. They had the bulk of the "learning disorders". From watching that I
know that it was the teachers need to be in control and the parents wanting "normal" kids
as decided by school officials that turned those boys into drug dazed and "calmer". I
didn't want that for my super active spy boy....
--- In [email protected], Tammy Curry <mamabeart00@...> wrote:
>
> I can relate to having at least one child that runs wild. I have been accused of giving in,
not disciplining, all kinds of things including a recommendation to have him tested for
ADHD. On the flip side we have had a few friends and neighbors thrilled to death that we
have a 101% boy, apparently they are rare finds these days. My daughter has always been
the calm quiet one so it is like night and day with them.
>
> I definitely would not have laughed or anything and would have jumped in to help. I
know how it feels. I also cannot add anything else to what has been said but you can
always email me off list if you need a friendly ear. :)
>
> Tammy C.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>