nxmcclar

What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
mid-day sun. My son who is 2, goes naked most of the day because he
hates to get on a diaper or clothes. Sometimes he'll agree to a shirt
for playing outside, but usually refuses his shady hat unless he's
riding his scooter and will then wear his helmet. Actually, that's a
second question, what are thoughts over a rule that you have to wear a
helmet for bikes/scooters?

Melissa Gray

We don't usually do helmets, and my 13 yo almost always insists on
wearing one when skating (not scootering). The rest of the kids, not
so much.

On sunscreen, I always offer to put it on, but I'm not going to force
the issue. Skin cancer runs in our family, however, so it's hard for
me. Most of the time the kids don't mind, they know the story of all
the people we love who've had surgery to remove tumors, so it's very
real to them. Two years old, i don't think would understand. But
Avari is two and she LOVES sunblock...she calls it sun lotion, and
probably loves it because we are forever slathering our blindingly
white skin.

Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com



On Sep 19, 2008, at 2:42 AM, nxmcclar wrote:

> What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
> mid-day sun. My son who is 2, goes naked most of the day because he
> hates to get on a diaper or clothes. Sometimes he'll agree to a shirt
> for playing outside, but usually refuses his shady hat unless he's
> riding his scooter and will then wear his helmet. Actually, that's a
> second question, what are thoughts over a rule that you have to wear a
> helmet for bikes/scooters?
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swissarmy_wife

I feel it is important make sure my very fair skinned red head wears
sunscreen. He is not quite old enough to understand skin cancer and
the ill effects of too much sun on his skin. We find ways of making
sure he is protected. He will wear hats, long pants or sleeves,
sometimes I apply it while he plays, sometimes I explain what can
happen, other times I ask him where he needs it. He really liked the
blue-colored sunscreen too. It's really important that he wears it in
certain situations. If he were to burn and be caused great pain I
would feel responsible mostly because of his age.

My oldest has never worn sunscreen and does not burn. I have
explained why I would like him to wear a light sunscreen but he refuses.


> On sunscreen, I always offer to put it on, but I'm not going to force
> the issue. Skin cancer runs in our family, however, so it's hard for
> me. Most of the time the kids don't mind, they know the story of all
> the people we love who've had surgery to remove tumors, so it's very
> real to them.

Lisa Russell

we do not do sunscreen at all.

EVER

IMHO humans NEED the sun, in fact, 77% of cancers are caused by a lack of Vitamin D, which we make when we're exposed to the Sun.

Here's my investigative report on Sunblock, along with references to research and more scholarly articles:

http://mrshannigan.blogspot.com/2008/06/sunblock-is-bullshit.html

Sunblock is a "drug company" product, and should be used in the same way vaccines and antibiotics are used, which is "cautiously"


Lisa (the ever paranoid)


http://www.lisarussell.org because .com and .net were taken







----- Original Message ----
From: Melissa Gray <autismhelp@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:58:14 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Sunscreen and Bike Helmets?


We don't usually do helmets, and my 13 yo almost always insists on
wearing one when skating (not scootering). The rest of the kids, not
so much.

On sunscreen, I always offer to put it on, but I'm not going to force
the issue. Skin cancer runs in our family, however, so it's hard for
me. Most of the time the kids don't mind, they know the story of all
the people we love who've had surgery to remove tumors, so it's very
real to them. Two years old, i don't think would understand. But
Avari is two and she LOVES sunblock...she calls it sun lotion, and
probably loves it because we are forever slathering our blindingly
white skin.

Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlingliv es.blogspot. com/
http://startlingliv es365.blogspot. com

On Sep 19, 2008, at 2:42 AM, nxmcclar wrote:

> What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
> mid-day sun. My son who is 2, goes naked most of the day because he
> hates to get on a diaper or clothes. Sometimes he'll agree to a shirt
> for playing outside, but usually refuses his shady hat unless he's
> riding his scooter and will then wear his helmet. Actually, that's a
> second question, what are thoughts over a rule that you have to wear a
> helmet for bikes/scooters?
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:42 AM, nxmcclar wrote:

> What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
> mid-day sun.

If your 2 yo goes out today without sunscreen, will he get cancer?

I think where people's thinking gets stuck is in unconsciously seeing
sunscreen (and sugar and preservatives and video games) like magic
juju. Miss performing the ritual once (or let the evil in once) and
your child is screwed.

One sunburn, or even several dozen sunburns, are not going to cause
cancer. A lifetime spent in the sun will up the chances. A 2 yo isn't
even in the danger zone.

Make the information available, make it easy for him to choose to do
it (with substances he likes) and it's more likely he'll choose to
wear it when he's older than if you force him when he's younger.

Search for sunscreen at the list's website. There have been several
discussions in the past:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elena

--- In [email protected], "nxmcclar"
<nancycallan@...> wrote:
>
> What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in
the
> mid-day sun. My son who is 2, goes naked most of the day because
he
> hates to get on a diaper or clothes. Sometimes he'll agree to a
shirt
> for playing outside, but usually refuses his shady hat unless he's
> riding his scooter and will then wear his helmet. Actually, that's
a
> second question, what are thoughts over a rule that you have to
wear a
> helmet for bikes/scooters?
>

I don't use sunscreen on my kids (3 yo and 10 months). I'm just
trying to avoid them playing in direct sun, because of danger of
sunburning. It's more important to me to be sure that my kids get
enough vitamin D during the summer. The skin cancer is curable, but
the lack of the vitamin D can cause more dangerous illnesses.

About helmet... I'm from Russia and never wore one while riding my
bike near my house. But here, while biking on the road, it's very
wise to wear a helmet. For scooters and tricycles... I will not
force to wear helmet on them, although my 3 yo daughter just love to
put helmet on.:)

barbara emrich

Does this apply to helmets too? Can't one fall off a bike without helmet
cause death or brain injury? We have two family acquaintances this happened
to, so it's not theoretical.
Not sure these should be in the same category....
Bar

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:

>
> On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:42 AM, nxmcclar wrote:
>
> > What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
> > mid-day sun.
>
> If your 2 yo goes out today without sunscreen, will he get cancer?
>
> I think where people's thinking gets stuck is in unconsciously seeing
> sunscreen (and sugar and preservatives and video games) like magic
> juju. Miss performing the ritual once (or let the evil in once) and
> your child is screwed.
>
> One sunburn, or even several dozen sunburns, are not going to cause
> cancer. A lifetime spent in the sun will up the chances. A 2 yo isn't
> even in the danger zone.
>
> Make the information available, make it easy for him to choose to do
> it (with substances he likes) and it's more likely he'll choose to
> wear it when he's older than if you force him when he's younger.
>
> Search for sunscreen at the list's website. There have been several
> discussions in the past:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/messages
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "nxmcclar" <nancycallan@...>
wrote:
>
> What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
> mid-day sun.

If the sun is a serious issue, find a way for it not to be a battle.
Experiment with different products - how 'bout different colors of zinc
oxide applied as body paint? Good, old fashioned mud? Or, consider
making indoors more fun for the brightest part of the day.

>Actually, that's a
> second question, what are thoughts over a rule that you have to wear
a
> helmet for bikes/scooters?

I find the idea of "rules" tends to bog down my thinking, personally.
With very young children, it can be really challenging to communicate
around the issue of safety. Young children can be incredibly careful
one moment and disturbingly daring the next. We, parents, see so many
possibilities - so may What Ifs! that we sometimes lose track of the
real likelihood of danger. So its always valuble to step back and look
at that likelihood critically. Its also useful to brainstorm
alternatives if you have a kid who isn't happy with the first most
obvious "safety measure" that comes to mind.

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)

barbara emrich

So, do you think kids should wear helmets? I'm not sure if I'm getting the
practical application here...
Barb

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Meredith <meredith@...> wrote:

> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "nxmcclar" <nancycallan@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
> > mid-day sun.
>
> If the sun is a serious issue, find a way for it not to be a battle.
> Experiment with different products - how 'bout different colors of zinc
> oxide applied as body paint? Good, old fashioned mud? Or, consider
> making indoors more fun for the brightest part of the day.
>
> >Actually, that's a
> > second question, what are thoughts over a rule that you have to wear
> a
> > helmet for bikes/scooters?
>
> I find the idea of "rules" tends to bog down my thinking, personally.
> With very young children, it can be really challenging to communicate
> around the issue of safety. Young children can be incredibly careful
> one moment and disturbingly daring the next. We, parents, see so many
> possibilities - so may What Ifs! that we sometimes lose track of the
> real likelihood of danger. So its always valuble to step back and look
> at that likelihood critically. Its also useful to brainstorm
> alternatives if you have a kid who isn't happy with the first most
> obvious "safety measure" that comes to mind.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Verna

I dont go overboard with sunscreen but since my husband has had skin
cancer I do do everything in my power to not let the kids burn.
My middle son likes to wear swimshirts to avoid having to put as much
on. My oldest likes to put it on his own face. Pretty young kids can
learn to use those sticks on their faces and the spray is much faster
than the lotion kind and works well. We also avoid the afternoon sun
if the kids dont want to wear it.

Ren Allen

>
> IMHO humans NEED the sun, in fact, 77% of cancers are caused by a
lack of Vitamin D, which we make when we're exposed to the Sun.


I agree. Battling kids over sunscreen just isn't worth it...just avoid
the most intense hours of the day or be in places where you can get
shade. There is a startling amount of evidence that sunscreen itself
actually causes cancer (not just because of the vit. D link).

http://www.vvv.com/healthnews/dsunscre.html

We DO keep sunscreen around for those rare days we'll be on the water
or exposed during intense hours. I've also heard there are natural
sunscreens that don't cause problems. Burns aren't much fun so we use
it when we really need it, which is rare.

Someone told me coconut oil had natural sunscreening abilities so we
used that one day and while we eventually had to get out of the sun,
it did seem to give us more time without a burn. Haven't researched
that enough to speak intelligently about it though.

Ren

Melissa Gray

Which is why we use TruKid mineral sunscreen, which reflects rays
rather than absorbing into the skin. Anything with paraben or other
petroleum products is not really appropriate for skin.

But the same argument has been made for make-up ;-)

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/research/endocrine/videos/makeup.cfm

Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com



On Sep 19, 2008, at 9:22 PM, Ren Allen wrote:

>
> >
> > IMHO humans NEED the sun, in fact, 77% of cancers are caused by a
> lack of Vitamin D, which we make when we're exposed to the Sun.
>
> I agree. Battling kids over sunscreen just isn't worth it...just avoid
> the most intense hours of the day or be in places where you can get
> shade. There is a startling amount of evidence that sunscreen itself
> actually causes cancer (not just because of the vit. D link).
>
> http://www.vvv.com/healthnews/dsunscre.html
>
> We DO keep sunscreen around for those rare days we'll be on the water
> or exposed during intense hours. I've also heard there are natural
> sunscreens that don't cause problems. Burns aren't much fun so we use
> it when we really need it, which is rare.
>
> Someone told me coconut oil had natural sunscreening abilities so we
> used that one day and while we eventually had to get out of the sun,
> it did seem to give us more time without a burn. Haven't researched
> that enough to speak intelligently about it though.
>
> Ren
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carnationsgalore

> What are thoughts on battling over wearing sunscreen when out in the
> mid-day sun.

Why is it a struggle? What part of it bothers your son? Is it the
smell? The time it takes to put it on? The feeling on his skin?
There are lots of different products on the market. Maybe you should
try some different ones to see which one he likes best. For example,
we always buy the continuous spray bottle even though it's more
expensive. It's quick and easy and doesn't involve rubbing into the
skin.

Beth M.

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 19, 2008, at 7:02 PM, barbara emrich wrote:

> Does this apply to helmets too? Can't one fall off a bike without
> helmet
> cause death or brain injury?

How often does it happen? Will it happen today? Tomorrow?

If you jump in front of a speeding Mack truck what are the chances he
won't be able to stop in time?

Are the two even in the same category of fear?

My point isn't that parents shouldn't be safety conscious but that
seeing the problem through fear colored glasses as though death were
imminent -- like the Mack truck -- really muddies thinking. It makes
it feel as though the only option is force and to turn it into a
power struggle where mom's need to be right steamrollers over the
child's feelings.

If mom comes at the child with the attitude "You must wear a helmet
because you could die. That's just the way it is," when the child's
real objection is that the helmet pinches or he can't see, then it
whittles away at the relationship. If the parent isn't sympathetic to
the child's point of view -- and not just "Yeah, I know you don't
like it but it's not safe without a helmet," -- then why should the
child be sympathetic to the mom's? She's not modeling what she wants
in return. (To complicate matters, often kids don't know what
specifically they dislike when they say "I hate that!" It takes
patience. It takes compassion to help them help you.)

And regardless of what words a mom uses, when she imposes her way,
the kid feels what she's really saying is "You're not competent to
work this out. I need to make the choice for you." For lots of kids
that's a challenge to them and they'll be determined to show mom
she's wrong, quite often by showing mom that her *fears* are wrong
with "Hey, mom, look I rode my bike today without a helmet and I
didn't die! Ha! And I'm going to keep doing that until you admit
you're wrong!"

Much better -- as a solution and as a model of handling opposing
points of view -- to approach it with an attitude of "Let's find a
way that works for both of us."

If the child wasn't sympathetic to where the mom was coming from, I
wouldn't be opposed to dropping two melons on the pavement, one with
and one without a helmet wrapped around it. Be prepared for the child
to think it's cool ;-) But that doesn't mean they don't see the point.

It's more helpful to work toward the goal of the child grasping why
you would be concerned, than work towards getting the child to be
concerned, if you see the difference. If we retain ownership of the
fear as "our thing" the child is more likely to cooperate to help us
than if we're trying to impose our fear on them in order to make them
come around to our way of thinking.

Joyce




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

swissarmy_wife

Often enough to muddy my thinking. I DO know someone who's child died
from head injury because he did not wear a helmet and was hit by a car.

That made it a difficult discussion for us. Yet, I came here got lots
of advice! We found out that my Skylar (9 at the time) hated his
helmet because it was small and "uncool". He hated the look and feel
of bicycle helmets. So we purchased a larger, cooler, and blacker
helmet. LOL He's even requested that I paint flames it. :-)


> How often does it happen? Will it happen today? Tomorrow?
>

Helene Lindelöf

Hello, I am sorry to be a bit OT but this has to do with the rights of
homeeducators in a global context, so please help me, and I ask you to keep your reply OFFLIST to this adress:

helene@...

I am looking for contacts with all possible families with at least one
swedish citizen or half-citizen that are home-educating anywhere outside
Sweden to ask a few simple questions. Please spread this word on other
forums as well!

Contact me! And spread the word and my adress. Please feel free to look at the newfounded swedish home-education organization too:
www.rohus.nu

My plea for swedes who homeschool has to do with the rights of homeschoolers globally,
so please do not hesitate to contact me with information!

Please reply to me privately if you are in such a family or know of any like
that and how to contact them or please, tell them to contact me as soon as
possible.

Kind regards, Helene


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I think helmets are a great safety device but they don't always keep you
from getting killed or brain injured. They're a cushion for certain kinds
of head impact.

Helmets are not meant to protect beyond falls onto the pavement, the ground
and into objects like trees .. and even there speed makes a difference. If
the rate of speed is high enough (and it doesn't take much speed in a car)
then a helmet might not prevent injury.

A car is so much heavier that, depending on rate of speed and point of
impact, the body doesn't stand much chance. Those elbow and knee pads are
just for falling down not collisions with cars.

Point being, cars are not much of a helmet issue.

~Katherine



On 9/20/08, swissarmy_wife <heatherbean@...> wrote:
>
> Often enough to muddy my thinking. I DO know someone who's child died
> from head injury because he did not wear a helmet and was hit by a car.
>
> That made it a difficult discussion for us. Yet, I came here got lots
> of advice! We found out that my Skylar (9 at the time) hated his
> helmet because it was small and "uncool". He hated the look and feel
> of bicycle helmets. So we purchased a larger, cooler, and blacker
> helmet. LOL He's even requested that I paint flames it. :-)
>
> > How often does it happen? Will it happen today? Tomorrow?
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Swanay

A car is so much heavier that, depending on rate of speed and point of
impact, the body doesn't stand much chance. Those elbow and knee pads are
just for falling down not collisions with cars.

Point being, cars are not much of a helmet issue.

~Katherine

**********************
Kid on bike vs car...the helmet is wearing the kid for protection.
It's another thing the government has talked us all into and forced on
us. Helps some kids in some situations but not all.

Karen

k

There's nothing wrong with wearing a helmet, even if it's not a total
solution for all safety issues. When I was a kid I rode all over our
property without one. I was slow and careful on a bike because I'm not that
physically talented at zipping. I never learned to get around on roller
skates the way I'd always dreamed of.

I think Joyce's comments about listening to our kid's needs for comfortable
helmets that aren't completely against their style preferences is one
unschooling answer to dealing with a child's objection to a helmet.

If it's a matter of forced consumption in the opinion of some parents but
not in the opinion of the policeman who gives a citation or the neighbor who
calls in to child protection, maybe a kid wouldn't want that. My dad is
something of a nonconformist and I sometimes wished the ground would open up
and swallow us all so that I didn't end up enduring embarrassment from that
kind of belligerence.

Or if a curiosity develops in our children since the neighbor kid wears a
really snazzy looking helmet... then whether or not to buy a helmet becomes
a different matter. Do we want to deny our kid to experience something so
simple because we have a big ideal we're upholding? To relax a bit around
the issue, make it about ourselves. If it's about ourselves and our *own*
ideals, our kids could still have a helmet while we ourselves ride bikes
sans helmet in order to satisfy our needs to be nonconformists.

It could also end up being an area which touches on our children's freedom
to form and express their own unique opinions in their own home. It's
possible to be a nonconformist to such a degree that it swallows up our
children's ability to express themselves until they leave home. And in
unschooling that may mean that another area of force and coercion has opened
up for review.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alison Broadbent

Dr. Mercola discusses the risk benefit of sunscreens and sun
exposure. It's the most balanced reading I've done on the subject.
He recommends it only in certain situations. You can read about it
here. http://products.mercola.com/summer%2Dsurvival%2Dkit/

My dh grew up in New Zealand. His family is from Ireland and the UK
as are many from NZ. Big diff in sun exposure. He's had skin
cancers so this is a subject I've read up on. Asher doesn't have
quite as light skin as dh does but it's pretty light.

We talk about not being in direct sun for long periods. If he is, we
put Dr. Mercola's sunscreen on which I wish I had found long ago. I
would never put drugstore sunscreens on. We've talked lots about
it. I don't force it. We've tried different things like roll ons
which he liked for a while. He's had a sunburn and sees it's no
fun. It's trial and error like so much but getting into rules and
coercion erodes the trust. So it's not, you must do this, it's how
can we do it so it's comfortable when necessary.

Alison

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "barbara emrich"
<barbaraemrich@...> wrote:
>
> So, do you think kids should wear helmets? I'm not sure if I'm
getting the
> practical application here...

Ultimately, what I think is less important than how I handle
disagreements with my kids over what constitues "safe."

My 7yo is pretty sanguine about wearing a bike helmet. I say "oh,
let me get your helmet" and she puts it on. She climbs trees without
any kind of protective gear, though, and I personally know as many
people who've been injured falling out of trees as riding bikes -
and with worse injuries on the tree side. We talk about trees and
climbing and tell each other stories - share information.

My stepson, Ray, sometimes wears a helmet (on his bike or
skateboard) sometimes not. He makes his own decision based on how
dangerous he believes his fun is going to get. If he's "dropping in
to carve" he always wears a helmet. If he's just skating in a
parking lot - no.

Why do I "let" him? I don't have any illusions that I can stop my
kids from doing things *I* think are dangerous if they want to do
them. Maybe I can stop them from doing one specific thing (take the
bikes and skateboard away) but my kids are clever. They can find
plenty of "exciting" things to do out here in the woods. Heck, there
are always trees!

So the practical application really is the matter of sharing
information in a non-judgemental manner and being my kids' ally in
terms of problem solving. *That* will have a higher chance
of "keeping them safe" than making any kind of statement about what
they should or should not do.

---Meredith (Mo 7, Ray 14)

lanipop

Sunscreen no, helmets yes.

Until they take out the chemicals we're screenless but now that we live
in Alaska our exposure has been diminished much of late.

Helmets yes. Big yes. Brain damage sucks.