karend27

Hi everyone,
First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm normally
pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny lego
wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just feel
a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on a
lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on the
umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
Thanks!

A Perry

hi,
i also feel uncomfortable when the house gets really messy. it makes me feel confused more than anything, but i understand that crabby feeling.
i think waiting until the end of the end of the day might be adding to your crankiness. it's hard to clean up a whole lot of stuff after hours and hours of playing. maybe try to put away the things everyone is really and truly done with when they finish with them. i usually clean up while my son has something to snack on. the mess is almost always in the living room and kitchen, so he's nearby and sometimes helps. my daughter does some of the cleaning, too, because i've offered her money in exchange for some household help. i imagine this is a loaded topic- the money for help thing- but it works. she gets a little spending money, i get a little help.
we also keep things in the room where we use them, for the most part. there are toys in the living room in baskets, they are easy to just toss in when we finish with them. i used to prefer the toys in the other room but we never went into the living room until we put the fun stuff in there, and it seemed to make clean up harder to put them in separate rooms.
finally, if you feel seriously overwhelmed, you can either get rid of, or hide, some stuff. i have never been able to part with anything, but i have an enormous attic which i admit, is chaotic. i don't worry about that too much, because i remember as a child having a huge attic full of mysterious stuff, and it was wonderful. do you have a space where you can put some things that are not being used often? or you can circulate the toys, having some stuff out for a month or so and then switching.
i cleared out most of my own stuff to make room for the kids. i figure in five or so years, i'll wish i had legos and trains underfoot.
angela
 
 


--- On Mon, 7/28/08, karend27 <karend27@yaho a lot of tidying up all day long.
From: karend27 <karend27@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:07 PM






Hi everyone,
First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm normally
pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny lego
wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just feel
a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on a
lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on the
umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
Thanks!


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ariana Zora Ziminsky

Hi First-Time Poster,

This is my first post as well. I'm venturing out of lurkdom because I could
have written your post myself -- a few months ago, before this unschooling
journey we started.

I also have a 5 and (almost) 3 yo, both boys. So I can relate.

I think the first thing to do is take a big, deep, breath, let it out, and
relax. I can feel the tension through the words in your post. I know
*exactly* what you mean when you say the mess drives you crazy, but it's
only stuff: Start trying to let go of that need to have it all tidy and neat
as a button. Remember what the toys all over the place represent: Your boys
growing, loving life, learning, playing with each other, finding value in
all the big and small parts of this great world, being HAPPY!

And slowly, consciously change the little voice in your head: When you see
the mess, think "This is the outcome of a wonderful, positive, loving day
that my boys and I (and whoever else) shared together! I am so greatful for
this wonderful mess! In fact, I LOVE it! I embrace it!"

And when you do clean toys up, realize it's because *you* don't like the
"mess" (what I prefer to call creative output) -- not because they don't
like it. You are cleaning it up for your *own* sake. So don't expect them to
naturally want to do it. And if they want to put one Lego away at a time -
remember, that is what makes sense to them. That is what is bringing them
joy in tidying up. What if someone thought *your* method of putting toys
away was inefficient and useless? Would that be a positive experience for
you, and would it make you want to tidy up all the time?

In addition, here's another though: Many of us are programmed to think
"Cleaning up is such a chore!" But really - isn't is sometimes fun? Kind of
like playing house when you were a kid? I dig into that inner child of mine
whenever possible when I'm doing housework. I haven't solved the riddle of
getting the whole house cleaned up at one time (usually sections here and
there..), and I still dream (sometimes out loud!) of the perfect "system"
that joyfully keeps all the stuff (and laundry and groceries) flowing and in
order (sort of), but I keep it all in perspective. It's only stuff; and I am
a better person when I rise above my "need for organization" and can let go.

(There's a great Dayna Martin video on this - it's where I got many of these
ideas from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr7U7wXmBcA)

I hope this helps and makes sense.

- Ariana





----- Original Message -----
From: "karend27" <karend27@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:07 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy


> Hi everyone,
> First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
> like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
> unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
> say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
> from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
> about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
> snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm normally
> pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
> everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny lego
> wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
> We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
> irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just feel
> a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on a
> lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on the
> umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
> strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
> mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
> Thanks!
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Ren Allen

> First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
> like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
> unschooling world.


I read this and laughed, because I still have no idea other than my
strategy of marrying a neat-freak.:)

I just now read him the above question and said "You can answer this
one honey because I'm still clueless about how to accomplish it"

He sat on the bed thinking for a minute and then in his very best Adam
Sandler being "Cajun Man" voice he says
"simplification" (which sounds more like "simplificayshone"). He even
made the goofy face.

I really like him.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

I cross-stitched this for a pillow in Cameron's room 20 years ago:

I hope that my child, looking back on today
Will remember a mother who had time to play;
Because children grow up while you're not looking,
There are years ahead for cleaning and cooking.
So, quiet down cobwebs, dust go to sleep.
I'm nursing my baby, and babies don't keep.

It was by that prolific author, Anonymous. <g>

This one has an author:

Babies Don't Keep

Mother, O Mother, come shake out your cloth,
Empty the dustpan, poison the moth,
Hang out the washing, make up the bed,
Sew on a button and butter the bread.

Where is the mother whose house is so shocking?
She's up in the nursery, blissfully rocking.

Oh, I've grown as shiftless as Little Boy Blue,
Lullabye, rockabye, lullabye loo.
Dishes are waiting and bills are past due
Pat-a-cake, darling, and peek, peekaboo

The shopping's not done and there's nothing for stew
And out in the yard there's a hullabaloo
But I'm playing Kanga and this is my Roo
Look! Aren't his eyes the most wonderful hue?
Lullabye, rockaby lullabye loo.

The cleaning and scrubbing can wait till tomorrow
But children grow up as I've learned to my sorrow.
So quiet down cobwebs; Dust go to sleep!
I'm rocking my baby and babies don't keep.

- Ruth Hulbert Hamilton

My boys are 12 and 20, and my house is usually fairly straight. But
that wasn't always the case! You DON'T get this time back. And no
matter how many people say that to you, I know it comes in garbled and
unintelligible right now with two children, three and five. But one day
you will understand what we're saying. It'll be sooo clear then.

You can *choose* to hear us now though. <BWG> And before too long,
folding those tee-niney little t-shirts will be a very distant---and
sweet---memory. And when you find a stray Lego under the dresser that
hasn't been moved for years, you'll smile. I promise. <G>

Laundry and dirty dishes will *always* be there. Mine still are. <G>
But those children will *never* be five and three again. I guarantee
that!

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

Ginger and Jeff Sabo

Not that this helps much...it's just one of the options. My hubby wrote
about the 'mess' in this post:
http://freeboysdad.blogspot.com/2008/06/help-wanted.html

I think it was Meredith who wrote that basically her home was a canvas. She
sees it as her responsibility to provide her kids with a clean one to create
on. This helps me a lot.

I know, for me, Kade would suddenly become interested in the exact thing I
was putting away. So, out it would come even before I finished putting it
back. Then I'd try to move onto another thing...and he would come over to
play with it. This went on and on. We'd travel around the house and do
this 'dance'. I had a choice. I could get upset, or I could laugh. My
house is a mess. It takes at least 2 hours to pick up and put everything
away (and I don't do it all, every day) and we only have 1300 sq ft of
'play' space! My boys LOVE to create and explore. This means I love to
create and explore, too. In a few years, their toys will be different and
not on the living room floor. In a few years, they will be out and about
with their play. Time spent with them is vital to their learning. A messy
house, therefore, is vital to my allowing them to learn. I have baskets
(large ones) in every room. As I go by, I can now add things to them
(without a little guy taking them out as I'm putting them in) and our home
has many paths during the day. When they start to wind down, I pick stuff
up as I have energy to do so. With my hubby home most weekends, I get more
time to flit around.

3 and 5 is young. In a few short years, you will have the opportunity to
clean to your hearts content...and have everything exactly where you want
it.

--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)

http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/

LOVE has impact.

"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde

http://www.savetherain.org/

favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cori Belliveau

My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have seen how
quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable ideas, so I'm a bit
scared to continue, but chores work for us.) I don't want the kids to grow
up feeling like they have a free pass to destroy the place and follow their
every whim while I have to go behind them with a shovel and a spray
bottle!! It doesn't take that long when we all help, and I tell them it's
part of living with other people. I don't want to pick up my stinky old
socks any more than they do, but I do it as a courtesy to them to keep the
house livable. They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a courtesy to me
for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other things they
need me for. They each have different chores (that they chose) and we do
them right after breakfast. I clean up at the same time so we're all in it
together. I even ask the baby (16 mo) to carry her breakfast bowl to the
kitchen. She loves it! The other two (6 and 4) aren't thrilled, but they
do appreciate the expediency of having a kitchen ready for that impromptu
baking experiment, or a dining room table cleared of crumbs and ready for
play dough, and the most important - knowing where their shoes are so they
can head for the woods.
Cori

http://coriandthegirls.livejournal.com


On 7/28/08, A Perry <ansperry@...> wrote:
>
> hi,
> i also feel uncomfortable when the house gets really messy. it makes me
> feel confused more than anything, but i understand that crabby feeling.
> i think waiting until the end of the end of the day might be adding to your
> crankiness. it's hard to clean up a whole lot of stuff after hours and hours
> of playing. maybe try to put away the things everyone is really and truly
> done with when they finish with them. i usually clean up while my son has
> something to snack on. the mess is almost always in the living room and
> kitchen, so he's nearby and sometimes helps. my daughter does some of the
> cleaning, too, because i've offered her money in exchange for some household
> help. i imagine this is a loaded topic- the money for help thing- but it
> works. she gets a little spending money, i get a little help.
> we also keep things in the room where we use them, for the most part. there
> are toys in the living room in baskets, they are easy to just toss in when
> we finish with them. i used to prefer the toys in the other room but we
> never went into the living room until we put the fun stuff in there, and it
> seemed to make clean up harder to put them in separate rooms.
> finally, if you feel seriously overwhelmed, you can either get rid of, or
> hide, some stuff. i have never been able to part with anything, but i have
> an enormous attic which i admit, is chaotic. i don't worry about that too
> much, because i remember as a child having a huge attic full of mysterious
> stuff, and it was wonderful. do you have a space where you can put some
> things that are not being used often? or you can circulate the toys, having
> some stuff out for a month or so and then switching.
> i cleared out most of my own stuff to make room for the kids. i figure
> in five or so years, i'll wish i had legos and trains underfoot.
> angela
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, karend27 <karend27@yaho a lot of tidying up all day
> long.
> From: karend27 <karend27@... <karend27%40yahoo.com>>
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy
> To: [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:07 PM
>
> Hi everyone,
> First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
> like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
> unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
> say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
> from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
> about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
> snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm normally
> pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
> everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny lego
> wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
> We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
> irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just feel
> a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on a
> lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on the
> umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
> strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
> mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
> Thanks!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carenkh

I don't have time right now for a proper reply, but I hope you can see
that, for the most part, people don't *attack* others here. People DO
point out where someone's thinking and actions are going to impede
their relationship with their kids. It's not attacking. I've *seen*
attacking on some of the other lists, and it is not pretty. It's why
I'm not a member on some of the other lists.

I have seen some strong knee-jerk reactions to some things people have
said, and to me, it seemed harsher than necessary - but through the
ensuing conversation, things get cleared up.

I appreciate your willingness to post!

peace,
Caren



--- In [email protected], "Cori Belliveau"
<coribell@...> wrote:
>
(I've never posted here before because I have seen how
> quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable ideas, so I'm
a bit
> scared to continue, but chores work for us.)

carnationsgalore

"Cori Belliveau" <coribell@...> wrote:
> My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have
> seen how quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable
> ideas, so I'm a bit scared to continue, but chores work for us.)

Having been on unschooling groups, on and off, for over 4 years, I
used to think the same way. But please don't look at responses as an
attack. It's not that the idea is an unlikeable idea, but rather
that it's not an unschooling idea. You're justifying your ideas with
thoughts and beliefs that unschoolers have learned to set themselves
free from. Your post doesn't help anyone understand or grow more in
an unschooling lifestyle.

> I don't want the kids to grow up feeling like they have a free pass
> to destroy the place and follow their every whim while I have to go
> behind them with a shovel and a spray bottle!!

No one wants their kids to grow up that way. In my family, we don't
have assigned chores but my children's volunteering increases as they
get older. If I'm cleaning and I feel like I need help, I ask if
they can help me. Most of the time they are happy to do something.
But they know that I completely respect their right to not help. I
look at it as good role modeling. I know I'd be a very unhappy
person if my husband handed me a chore list and expected everything
to be checked off. I wouldn't feel like a valued family member. I'd
feel like an employee who isn't even getting paid.

Things get easier as the children get older. When my kids were
younger, they created big ole messes several times daily. Now that
they are 10, 12, and 16, the messes are fewer and farther between.
Of my 3 children, my youngest prefers to not clean much. The two
things she hates the most are carrying her laundry to her room and
putting it away and carrying groceries in from the car (up the
stairs) to the kitchen. I don't force her to do those things. I ask
if I can help her. And like her brother and sister, she will reach a
point where she feels ready to do those things herself.

I really miss those messy days of toys all over the place. I never
thought I'd say that, but my children seem so grown up now. Well, we
do have two art projects on the dining room table right now. The
girls have been having a blast so rather than seeing a mess, I see
the results of two loving sisters working on something together.
Very very cool!

Beth M.

Robin Krest

We don't buy much stuff. We exchange toys from a closet rather than have them all out. We put things away so the dog doesn't lie on them.

I follow Flylady's routines loosley, and the important messages I took away are:

1. If it matters to you, do it yourself. Don't mope because no one else thinks it is important and won't do it.

2. If you do it, they will follow. Model the behavior or actions, and the family may pick up on it...or not.

3. You can accomplish a lot in 15 minutes a day.

We have allergies, fleas, and roaches (yay, FL) so keeping the house tidy is important to me for the health of the family. I keep those ideas in mind when doing housework, and find my house generally tidy by doing about 15-30 minutes a day.

Robin Krest




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Jeanette Crichton

"Keeping" my house tidy just doesn't happen around here. Nothing is all that consistent so that I have that perfect house all of the time. However, when I really have a need for a clean and tidy house I can get pretty creative and I enjoy the creative process of planning how to do it. I don't usually stick to one routine because it gets boring for me. Here are a few suggestions that helped me:

1) I need adrenaline or excitement to get into the mood for cleaning, etc. Sometimes I plan to have someone over just to keep the excitement high, or I try to "Surprise" my husband with a really clean house, or I play cleaning games with the kids. One of my kids (I have 3 and 5 yo boys and I'm 34 weeks pregnant with another boy) really likes to play I spy. I usually spy something wrong with a room and he puts everything back where it belongs. Once everything is back where it belongs, I tell him what the secret item was and if he put it away. Then he does the same thing in a room that I'm cleaning. My 3yo doesn't like to do it very much if his older brother is playing too because then he thinks that he lost.

2) If I have a lot of house work to do and my kids are bored, I play while I'm cleaning. I turn into some character and the silliness begins. We have pretended that our house is a hotel and we are getting ready for a king and queen to come visit. I play the bossy head maid and my son loves to be the irresponsible janitor. We have also made giant piles of laundry to jump in and throw around. Then the kids usually sort it ALL for me. My 3 yo loves to clean with me. He has his own cleaning cart (a kid's shopping cart) complete with vinegar and water spray bottles, baking soda (for scrubbing), rags, dusters, trash bags tied on the sides, and a bucket and small mop. He loves to wet his hands pour baking soda on them and scrub my shower.

3) Another thing I like to do is make a BIGGER mess. For example, if a room is really bugging me, I like to start from scratch and reorganize or rearrange. My kids love this! And my oldest asks for days if we can redo the house. I recently emptied my entire pantry onto the kitchen table and putting it all back took all day, but then I had a really neat pantry. The kids stayed busy checking out all of the food that they usually don't see and then they loved helping me decide how to organize it all back on the shelves. My oldest helped me until the very end.

4) Another thing that plays into the adrenaline thing for me is to set a timer. When the kids ask why I'm moving so fast, I tell them and sometimes they want to get in on the fun. I usually say something like: I'm trying to get this room picked up in 3 minutes.

5) Baskets are great for a quick tidy. I don't like to sort the baskets, but I just stick them in the guest room or closet and my husband doesn't mind doing some quick sorts once in a while. My husband is much better at picking up and I'm much better at deep cleaning so that's usually how things get done around here.

6) I am very comfortable in a mess and I think that helps to keep things low stress. However, I think we all function better when things are much more tidy, so that's the way I try to keep things.

7) Try to think about how your kids play and how the "mess" is created. For example, my boys love to play legos, but if they played with them all over the floor I'd be picking them up for hours. We use a play table (large train table with drawers under) for their legos. This way they never have to pick them up. It's an ongoing creative process. Ask yourself "What is making the mess?" "How can I make things easier on myself?" Get creative. My boys used to leave their dress up clothes all over the house until I created a special "dressing room" in one of our closets. We have a family closet for all of our clothes, so that has freed up some other closets and those are great places to make "messes".

8) Use more "grown up" things for play. For example, we used to have all kinds of art supplies for the kids but they always wanted to use my husband's stuff. We have gotten rid of all of the "kid" art stuff and have simplified our art supplies. Another example of this is tools. My 3yo loves tools. He had a bunch of fake tools, but they would get scattered all over the house. I have started helping him use adult tools instead and he has REALLY enjoyed this! He likes to hammer nails into boxes or even wood.

9) Consider the length of time that your kids stay interested in a toy. Is it a toy that they just dig out, look at it for a second and throw it aside? I think that it's important for kids to "check out" toys, but we usually do this at toy stores, garage sales, and other kid's houses. I don't keep things that don't get played with. If they play with their stuffed animals once a month for a long and fun play time, then I'd keep a basket of them in the top of the closet for when they're ready for them. But if they have a couple of stuffed animals that they just throw aside to get to other toys, I'd get rid of them. My friends and I love to have swap playdates, where everyone brings a bag of toys to trade. Only having toys around that your kids love really seems to help with the "mess".

The bottom line is that you need to get creative to keep things tidy without all of the negative feelings and you have to practice making and enjoying messes with your children.

Best wishes!
Jeanette

----- Original Message ----
From: karend27 <karend27@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:07:47 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy


Hi everyone,
First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm normally
pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny lego
wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just feel
a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on a
lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on the
umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
Thanks!






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cori Belliveau

I suppose I should just unsubscribe from the group, but my issue here is
that unschooling isn't just one thing. This group - or any group - doesn't
"own" the idea. Just as Dayna mentioned in a video about sitting with the
kids as they watch TV, unschooling doesn't mean unsupervised chaos. As a
family, we've decided that chores makes the house run smoothly for all of
us. The other mom asked the question about how to keep it all clean and I
answered her with what works for my unschooled kids. Like it or not,
unschoolers come in a rainbow of degrees and you have to accept
that. Letting little kids stay up all hours of the night and doing all the
cleaning yourself (or just ignoring it) is fine if that works for you.
However, If it worked for the mom who asked the question she probably
wouldn't have asked it.
Peace, Cori



On 7/29/08, carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...> wrote:
>
> "Cori Belliveau" <coribell@...> wrote:
> > My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have
> > seen how quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable
> > ideas, so I'm a bit scared to continue, but chores work for us.)
>
> Having been on unschooling groups, on and off, for over 4 years, I
> used to think the same way. But please don't look at responses as an
> attack. It's not that the idea is an unlikeable idea, but rather
> that it's not an unschooling idea. You're justifying your ideas with
> thoughts and beliefs that unschoolers have learned to set themselves
> free from. Your post doesn't help anyone understand or grow more in
> an unschooling lifestyle.
>
> > I don't want the kids to grow up feeling like they have a free pass
> > to destroy the place and follow their every whim while I have to go
> > behind them with a shovel and a spray bottle!!
>
> No one wants their kids to grow up that way. In my family, we don't
> have assigned chores but my children's volunteering increases as they
> get older. If I'm cleaning and I feel like I need help, I ask if
> they can help me. Most of the time they are happy to do something.
> But they know that I completely respect their right to not help. I
> look at it as good role modeling. I know I'd be a very unhappy
> person if my husband handed me a chore list and expected everything
> to be checked off. I wouldn't feel like a valued family member. I'd
> feel like an employee who isn't even getting paid.
>
> Things get easier as the children get older. When my kids were
> younger, they created big ole messes several times daily. Now that
> they are 10, 12, and 16, the messes are fewer and farther between.
> Of my 3 children, my youngest prefers to not clean much. The two
> things she hates the most are carrying her laundry to her room and
> putting it away and carrying groceries in from the car (up the
> stairs) to the kitchen. I don't force her to do those things. I ask
> if I can help her. And like her brother and sister, she will reach a
> point where she feels ready to do those things herself.
>
> I really miss those messy days of toys all over the place. I never
> thought I'd say that, but my children seem so grown up now. Well, we
> do have two art projects on the dining room table right now. The
> girls have been having a blast so rather than seeing a mess, I see
> the results of two loving sisters working on something together.
> Very very cool!
>
> Beth M.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cori Belliveau

Ahh, flylady! Yes, doing it yourself instead of moping does help a lot!!

On 7/29/08, Cori Belliveau <coribell@...> wrote:
>
> I suppose I should just unsubscribe from the group, but my issue here is
> that unschooling isn't just one thing. This group - or any group - doesn't
> "own" the idea. Just as Dayna mentioned in a video about sitting with the
> kids as they watch TV, unschooling doesn't mean unsupervised chaos. As a
> family, we've decided that chores makes the house run smoothly for all of
> us. The other mom asked the question about how to keep it all clean and I
> answered her with what works for my unschooled kids. Like it or not,
> unschoolers come in a rainbow of degrees and you have to accept
> that. Letting little kids stay up all hours of the night and doing all the
> cleaning yourself (or just ignoring it) is fine if that works for you.
> However, If it worked for the mom who asked the question she probably
> wouldn't have asked it.
> Peace, Cori
>
>
>
> On 7/29/08, carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...> wrote:
>>
>> "Cori Belliveau" <coribell@...> wrote:
>> > My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have
>> > seen how quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable
>> > ideas, so I'm a bit scared to continue, but chores work for us.)
>>
>> Having been on unschooling groups, on and off, for over 4 years, I
>> used to think the same way. But please don't look at responses as an
>> attack. It's not that the idea is an unlikeable idea, but rather
>> that it's not an unschooling idea. You're justifying your ideas with
>> thoughts and beliefs that unschoolers have learned to set themselves
>> free from. Your post doesn't help anyone understand or grow more in
>> an unschooling lifestyle.
>>
>> > I don't want the kids to grow up feeling like they have a free pass
>> > to destroy the place and follow their every whim while I have to go
>> > behind them with a shovel and a spray bottle!!
>>
>> No one wants their kids to grow up that way. In my family, we don't
>> have assigned chores but my children's volunteering increases as they
>> get older. If I'm cleaning and I feel like I need help, I ask if
>> they can help me. Most of the time they are happy to do something.
>> But they know that I completely respect their right to not help. I
>> look at it as good role modeling. I know I'd be a very unhappy
>> person if my husband handed me a chore list and expected everything
>> to be checked off. I wouldn't feel like a valued family member. I'd
>> feel like an employee who isn't even getting paid.
>>
>> Things get easier as the children get older. When my kids were
>> younger, they created big ole messes several times daily. Now that
>> they are 10, 12, and 16, the messes are fewer and farther between.
>> Of my 3 children, my youngest prefers to not clean much. The two
>> things she hates the most are carrying her laundry to her room and
>> putting it away and carrying groceries in from the car (up the
>> stairs) to the kitchen. I don't force her to do those things. I ask
>> if I can help her. And like her brother and sister, she will reach a
>> point where she feels ready to do those things herself.
>>
>> I really miss those messy days of toys all over the place. I never
>> thought I'd say that, but my children seem so grown up now. Well, we
>> do have two art projects on the dining room table right now. The
>> girls have been having a blast so rather than seeing a mess, I see
>> the results of two loving sisters working on something together.
>> Very very cool!
>>
>> Beth M.
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ginger and Jeff Sabo

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 4:17 AM, Cori Belliveau <coribell@...> wrote:
"They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a courtesy to me
for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other things they
need me for."
Firstly, I must say I'm not attacking, I'm discussing. Please see it as
such.

I don't have my kids do chores. They help me pick up when they wish to. My
youngest will usually only do so if he sees I'm doing it to enable our play
to get bigger. I don't require it. I do ask for help sometimes and
sometimes they help. I also look at it as a skill they already have
mastered and don't wish to practice right now (both boys know how to pick up
and put things away) the same for dishes and laundry and dusting and
cleaning. I do acknowledge when they do something that is helpful (Kade
even mopped the kitchen floor for me the other day all on his own
volition!). I express my appreciation.

Now, as to the quote. My question is: what are you going to have to do "as
a courtesy" to them when they cook for you (or themselves for that matter),
drive for you and do the million things that you've seen as 'needs from
you'? Do you keep tally with your Sig Other, too? Is there a tally of who
does what? Should there be? I personally say, no. I try to make it as
unconditional as I can. That means I don't tally. People show love in
different ways...and I am fortunate that I like to nurture (pick up after
and feed). However, all the others in my family have different ways of
showing their love. I like to focus on how I receive it...not on how they
give it.

--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)

http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/

LOVE has impact.

"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde

http://www.savetherain.org/

favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shannon

I hope you don't ever feel attacked. Some where I saw a bumper sticker that
said the truth will set you free but it will piss you off first. I often
come to my unschooling lists for help because they make me work harder for
my kids and not the other way around. They challenge me when I say - I am
doing the best that I can and assist me with finding other tools including
knowledge when I just can't solve a problem. When I last discussed house
cleaning one of the mothers said you have to do it every day and you have to
make it fun. Well it isn't always fun but I do try to do a little every day.
I am taking wobbly baby steps (yes a flybaby) and I keep telling any thing
worth doing is worth doing poorly at first.



My children (seven, three and six month old) do not have chores. They have
lists of things they are allowed to help with. Things that they are capable
of doing.. Got it off the web some where of what a child can do at what age.
This list empowers my children. My son loves the responsibility of taking
out the trash when he has nothing better to do. My daughter loves helping
mommy with laundry. Everyone picks up a stray sock when they see one.
Although I haven't had to touch one in months because if I see one I am
supposed to tell my daughter so she can get it. She wants to help so much
that if someone else does it - she will melt down to the point that we have
to undo it so she can do it. My daughter who often makes a water mess in
the bathroom leaves it mostly dry and even cleans the floor.



Unschooling for me means that we do what works for our family usually when I
write here it is because I have tried everything else and it just isn't
working. We have the freedom to meet our needs. My kids do work but they
have the freedom to say no I am busy right now. Doing it the same time
everyday is genius by the way - every one gets into the habit of doing it
together at a set time. We are trying to get into a groove but right now
with the six month old and scattered bedtimes due to summer it has been hard
to keep one going for very long. The kids just don't want to go to sleep!



Shannon



_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cori Belliveau
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy



My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have seen how
quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable ideas, so I'm a bit
scared to continue, but chores work for us.) I don't want the kids to grow
up feeling like they have a free pass to destroy the place and follow their
every whim while I have to go behind them with a shovel and a spray
bottle!! It doesn't take that long when we all help, and I tell them it's
part of living with other people. I don't want to pick up my stinky old
socks any more than they do, but I do it as a courtesy to them to keep the
house livable. They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a courtesy to me
for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other things they
need me for. They each have different chores (that they chose) and we do
them right after breakfast. I clean up at the same time so we're all in it
together. I even ask the baby (16 mo) to carry her breakfast bowl to the
kitchen. She loves it! The other two (6 and 4) aren't thrilled, but they
do appreciate the expediency of having a kitchen ready for that impromptu
baking experiment, or a dining room table cleared of crumbs and ready for
play dough, and the most important - knowing where their shoes are so they
can head for the woods.
Cori

http://coriandthegi <http://coriandthegirls.livejournal.com>
rls.livejournal.com

On 7/28/08, A Perry <ansperry@yahoo. <mailto:ansperry%40yahoo.com> com>
wrote:
>
> hi,
> i also feel uncomfortable when the house gets really messy. it makes me
> feel confused more than anything, but i understand that crabby feeling.
> i think waiting until the end of the end of the day might be adding to
your
> crankiness. it's hard to clean up a whole lot of stuff after hours and
hours
> of playing. maybe try to put away the things everyone is really and truly
> done with when they finish with them. i usually clean up while my son has
> something to snack on. the mess is almost always in the living room and
> kitchen, so he's nearby and sometimes helps. my daughter does some of the
> cleaning, too, because i've offered her money in exchange for some
household
> help. i imagine this is a loaded topic- the money for help thing- but it
> works. she gets a little spending money, i get a little help.
> we also keep things in the room where we use them, for the most part.
there
> are toys in the living room in baskets, they are easy to just toss in when
> we finish with them. i used to prefer the toys in the other room but we
> never went into the living room until we put the fun stuff in there, and
it
> seemed to make clean up harder to put them in separate rooms.
> finally, if you feel seriously overwhelmed, you can either get rid of, or
> hide, some stuff. i have never been able to part with anything, but i have
> an enormous attic which i admit, is chaotic. i don't worry about that too
> much, because i remember as a child having a huge attic full of mysterious
> stuff, and it was wonderful. do you have a space where you can put some
> things that are not being used often? or you can circulate the toys,
having
> some stuff out for a month or so and then switching.
> i cleared out most of my own stuff to make room for the kids. i figure
> in five or so years, i'll wish i had legos and trains underfoot.
> angela
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, karend27 <karend27@yaho a lot of tidying up all day
> long.
> From: karend27 <karend27@yahoo. <mailto:karend27%40yahoo.com> com
<karend27%40yahoo.com>>
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy
> To: unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:07 PM
>
> Hi everyone,
> First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
> like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
> unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
> say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
> from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
> about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
> snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm normally
> pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
> everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny lego
> wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
> We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
> irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just feel
> a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on a
> lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on the
> umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
> strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
> mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
> Thanks!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

janewalker_sc

Jeanette,

I'm a new member coming out of lurkdom because of your fabulous post,
Jeanette! You are inspiring! I love your ideas about making cleaning
up fun. It sounds like you and I are much alike in terms of our
cleaning personalities. I love to do projects, where I'm making
something better, but I get SO bored with the maintenance-type
cleaning! Thanks for sharing some awesome ideas!

Jane

--- In [email protected], Jeanette Crichton
<jeanettec_99@...> wrote:
>
> "Keeping" my house tidy just doesn't happen around here. Nothing
is all that consistent so that I have that perfect house all of the
time. However, when I really have a need for a clean and tidy house
I can get pretty creative and I enjoy the creative process of
planning how to do it. I don't usually stick to one routine because
it gets boring for me. Here are a few suggestions that helped me:
>
> 1) I need adrenaline or excitement to get into the mood for
cleaning, etc. Sometimes I plan to have someone over just to keep
the excitement high, or I try to "Surprise" my husband with a really
clean house, or I play cleaning games with the kids. One of my kids
(I have 3 and 5 yo boys and I'm 34 weeks pregnant with another boy)
really likes to play I spy. I usually spy something wrong with a
room and he puts everything back where it belongs. Once everything
is back where it belongs, I tell him what the secret item was and if
he put it away. Then he does the same thing in a room that I'm
cleaning. My 3yo doesn't like to do it very much if his older
brother is playing too because then he thinks that he lost.
>
> 2) If I have a lot of house work to do and my kids are bored, I
play while I'm cleaning. I turn into some character and the
silliness begins. We have pretended that our house is a hotel and we
are getting ready for a king and queen to come visit. I play the
bossy head maid and my son loves to be the irresponsible janitor. We
have also made giant piles of laundry to jump in and throw around.
Then the kids usually sort it ALL for me. My 3 yo loves to clean
with me. He has his own cleaning cart (a kid's shopping cart)
complete with vinegar and water spray bottles, baking soda (for
scrubbing), rags, dusters, trash bags tied on the sides, and a bucket
and small mop. He loves to wet his hands pour baking soda on them
and scrub my shower.
>
> 3) Another thing I like to do is make a BIGGER mess. For example,
if a room is really bugging me, I like to start from scratch and
reorganize or rearrange. My kids love this! And my oldest asks for
days if we can redo the house. I recently emptied my entire pantry
onto the kitchen table and putting it all back took all day, but then
I had a really neat pantry. The kids stayed busy checking out all of
the food that they usually don't see and then they loved helping me
decide how to organize it all back on the shelves. My oldest helped
me until the very end.
>
> 4) Another thing that plays into the adrenaline thing for me is to
set a timer. When the kids ask why I'm moving so fast, I tell them
and sometimes they want to get in on the fun. I usually say
something like: I'm trying to get this room picked up in 3 minutes.
>
> 5) Baskets are great for a quick tidy. I don't like to sort the
baskets, but I just stick them in the guest room or closet and my
husband doesn't mind doing some quick sorts once in a while. My
husband is much better at picking up and I'm much better at deep
cleaning so that's usually how things get done around here.
>
> 6) I am very comfortable in a mess and I think that helps to keep
things low stress. However, I think we all function better when
things are much more tidy, so that's the way I try to keep things.
>
> 7) Try to think about how your kids play and how the "mess" is
created. For example, my boys love to play legos, but if they played
with them all over the floor I'd be picking them up for hours. We
use a play table (large train table with drawers under) for their
legos. This way they never have to pick them up. It's an ongoing
creative process. Ask yourself "What is making the mess?" "How can
I make things easier on myself?" Get creative. My boys used to
leave their dress up clothes all over the house until I created a
special "dressing room" in one of our closets. We have a family
closet for all of our clothes, so that has freed up some other
closets and those are great places to make "messes".
>
> 8) Use more "grown up" things for play. For example, we used to
have all kinds of art supplies for the kids but they always wanted to
use my husband's stuff. We have gotten rid of all of the "kid" art
stuff and have simplified our art supplies. Another example of this
is tools. My 3yo loves tools. He had a bunch of fake tools, but
they would get scattered all over the house. I have started helping
him use adult tools instead and he has REALLY enjoyed this! He likes
to hammer nails into boxes or even wood.
>
> 9) Consider the length of time that your kids stay interested in a
toy. Is it a toy that they just dig out, look at it for a second and
throw it aside? I think that it's important for kids to "check out"
toys, but we usually do this at toy stores, garage sales, and other
kid's houses. I don't keep things that don't get played with. If
they play with their stuffed animals once a month for a long and fun
play time, then I'd keep a basket of them in the top of the closet
for when they're ready for them. But if they have a couple of
stuffed animals that they just throw aside to get to other toys, I'd
get rid of them. My friends and I love to have swap playdates, where
everyone brings a bag of toys to trade. Only having toys around that
your kids love really seems to help with the "mess".
>
> The bottom line is that you need to get creative to keep things
tidy without all of the negative feelings and you have to practice
making and enjoying messes with your children.
>
> Best wishes!
> Jeanette
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: karend27 <karend27@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:07:47 PM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy
>
>
> Hi everyone,
> First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
> like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
> unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
> say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
> from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
> about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
> snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm
normally
> pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
> everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny
lego
> wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
> We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
> irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just
feel
> a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on
a
> lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on
the
> umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
> strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
> mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Kelly

Hi,



I'm with Ren. Marry someone who is neater and way more organized than you,
and out of love and respect for one another, he'll help you devise systems
for keeping all the mess at bay lol! Short of that, we have laundry baskets
(plastic, with venting holes in the sides, you can get them at K-Mart or
Target) for quick tidy-ups. Having bins that have words and pictures that
represent what goes in them helps the little ones know where things go when
it's clean-up time. I think it's a bit much to expect young children to
understand our (often flawed) systems of organization, so the pictorial
representations give them a clue, and adding the words helps encourage word
recognition. Personally, I have no problem with paying older children to
help around the house, as long as they are happy with the arrangement. Right
now I have a mother's helper, and I pay them to play with the kids and
clean-up before they go, so what's the difference?



One thing I noticed with my oldest (I have two daughters, 5 yrs and 2 yrs),
when there is too much disorder, she doesn't want to play with anything, so
that is one good reason to bring the house back to order fairly regularly.
She is beginning to understand this about herself, and will sometimes
willingly help out when it's time to clean-up. Other times she doesn't want
to help, usually because she is already involved in something else, which is
fine with me. This is her time in life to have this freedom. My parents
never modeled happy clean-up time. It was always an issue in our home, as I
suspect it was in many other's homes. I think this is why so many regard
clean-up as a chore. I think we all have a real opportunity here to do
something different, something that will give our children the message that
they are loved and nurtured and respected, that they are not a burden to us,
that their play brings joy to a house, not aggravation. So when I see my
daughter frustrated because she can't find parts to a toy or game she wants
to play, I help her find the pieces, and yes, I will talk with her about
ways to avoid missing pieces in the future, by putting things back where
they belong, but I'll do it with love and care, because she deserves that.
Her job is to play and explore her world, and she is marvelous at it. My job
is to help her to do her job well.



So get some baskets, make some picture/word signs to tape onto them, play
clean-up games (with the baskets, almost anything can become a :basketball"
type game), have clean-up races, have fun. Your kids deserve it, and so do
you.



Kelly



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bkind28

I've been lurking a while and have learned I have been unschooly in
many ways and would like to be in more. Most people don't get it
though... Barney helped my DS when he was young. He loved to watch
Barney and if I started singing the clean up song he would help clean
up. Beth
--- In [email protected], "Shannon" <dragteine76@...>
wrote:
>
> I hope you don't ever feel attacked. Some where I saw a bumper
sticker that
> said the truth will set you free but it will piss you off first. I
often
> come to my unschooling lists for help because they make me work
harder for
> my kids and not the other way around. They challenge me when I say -
I am
> doing the best that I can and assist me with finding other tools
including
> knowledge when I just can't solve a problem. When I last discussed
house
> cleaning one of the mothers said you have to do it every day and
you have to
> make it fun. Well it isn't always fun but I do try to do a little
every day.
> I am taking wobbly baby steps (yes a flybaby) and I keep telling
any thing
> worth doing is worth doing poorly at first.
>
>
>
> My children (seven, three and six month old) do not have chores.
They have
> lists of things they are allowed to help with. Things that they are
capable
> of doing.. Got it off the web some where of what a child can do at
what age.
> This list empowers my children. My son loves the responsibility of
taking
> out the trash when he has nothing better to do. My daughter loves
helping
> mommy with laundry. Everyone picks up a stray sock when they see
one.
> Although I haven't had to touch one in months because if I see one
I am
> supposed to tell my daughter so she can get it. She wants to help
so much
> that if someone else does it - she will melt down to the point that
we have
> to undo it so she can do it. My daughter who often makes a water
mess in
> the bathroom leaves it mostly dry and even cleans the floor.
>
>
>
> Unschooling for me means that we do what works for our family
usually when I
> write here it is because I have tried everything else and it just
isn't
> working. We have the freedom to meet our needs. My kids do work but
they
> have the freedom to say no I am busy right now. Doing it the same
time
> everyday is genius by the way - every one gets into the habit of
doing it
> together at a set time. We are trying to get into a groove but
right now
> with the six month old and scattered bedtimes due to summer it has
been hard
> to keep one going for very long. The kids just don't want to go to
sleep!
>
>
>
> Shannon
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cori
Belliveau
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:17 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy
>
>
>
> My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have
seen how
> quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable ideas, so I'm
a bit
> scared to continue, but chores work for us.) I don't want the kids
to grow
> up feeling like they have a free pass to destroy the place and
follow their
> every whim while I have to go behind them with a shovel and a spray
> bottle!! It doesn't take that long when we all help, and I tell
them it's
> part of living with other people. I don't want to pick up my stinky
old
> socks any more than they do, but I do it as a courtesy to them to
keep the
> house livable. They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a
courtesy to me
> for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other
things they
> need me for. They each have different chores (that they chose) and
we do
> them right after breakfast. I clean up at the same time so we're
all in it
> together. I even ask the baby (16 mo) to carry her breakfast bowl
to the
> kitchen. She loves it! The other two (6 and 4) aren't thrilled, but
they
> do appreciate the expediency of having a kitchen ready for that
impromptu
> baking experiment, or a dining room table cleared of crumbs and
ready for
> play dough, and the most important - knowing where their shoes are
so they
> can head for the woods.
> Cori
>
> http://coriandthegi <http://coriandthegirls.livejournal.com>
> rls.livejournal.com
>
> On 7/28/08, A Perry <ansperry@yahoo. <mailto:ansperry%40yahoo.com>
com>
> wrote:
> >
> > hi,
> > i also feel uncomfortable when the house gets really messy. it
makes me
> > feel confused more than anything, but i understand that crabby
feeling.
> > i think waiting until the end of the end of the day might be
adding to
> your
> > crankiness. it's hard to clean up a whole lot of stuff after
hours and
> hours
> > of playing. maybe try to put away the things everyone is really
and truly
> > done with when they finish with them. i usually clean up while my
son has
> > something to snack on. the mess is almost always in the living
room and
> > kitchen, so he's nearby and sometimes helps. my daughter does
some of the
> > cleaning, too, because i've offered her money in exchange for some
> household
> > help. i imagine this is a loaded topic- the money for help thing-
but it
> > works. she gets a little spending money, i get a little help.
> > we also keep things in the room where we use them, for the most
part.
> there
> > are toys in the living room in baskets, they are easy to just
toss in when
> > we finish with them. i used to prefer the toys in the other room
but we
> > never went into the living room until we put the fun stuff in
there, and
> it
> > seemed to make clean up harder to put them in separate rooms.
> > finally, if you feel seriously overwhelmed, you can either get
rid of, or
> > hide, some stuff. i have never been able to part with anything,
but i have
> > an enormous attic which i admit, is chaotic. i don't worry about
that too
> > much, because i remember as a child having a huge attic full of
mysterious
> > stuff, and it was wonderful. do you have a space where you can
put some
> > things that are not being used often? or you can circulate the
toys,
> having
> > some stuff out for a month or so and then switching.
> > i cleared out most of my own stuff to make room for the kids. i
figure
> > in five or so years, i'll wish i had legos and trains underfoot.
> > angela
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 7/28/08, karend27 <karend27@yaho a lot of tidying up
all day
> > long.
> > From: karend27 <karend27@yahoo. <mailto:karend27%40yahoo.com> com
> <karend27%40yahoo.com>>
> > Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy
> > To: unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%
40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:07 PM
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you
might
> > like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
> > unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have
to
> > say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
> > from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not
talking
> > about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I
start
> > snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm
normally
> > pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
> > everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny
lego
> > wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
> > We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
> > irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just
feel
> > a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out
on a
> > lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on
the
> > umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know
any
> > strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
> > mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
> > Thanks!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[email protected]

Funny how this topic brought out so many 1st timers (myself included)...I
too, totally related and just wanted to share on article on it by an apparently
very wise woman who writes that "more mess = less stress" and I cannot agree
more (although I draw the line when I see the cat playing with dust bunnies).


_http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25400795/from/ET/_
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25400795/from/ET/)

Tamlyn Jordan
405-990-9524
www.univera.com

_www.mynetimpact.com_ (http://www.univera.com/)
Use visitor ID# 1252031

Learn why medical doctors use and recommend our life changing products..
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Beth, thank you for your post. I suppose I will use this as an opportunity
to introduce myself. I am a 47 year old single mom of 10 year old Zack. I
consider myself an unschooling mom in progress.

Have been unschooling for the past year, after getting thoroughly fed up
with the inept schooling system and mean school teachers. Short story on it: I
had been looking into unschooling for several weeks (after realizing my son's
current teacher was especially awful). Zack did not know about it yet. He
came home one day, crying, after she had embarrassed him by punishing him in
front of the whole class for something really minor. He looked at me incredibly
seriously and said, "Mom, I don't want to go back to school." His jaw dropped
when I said, "Oh honey, I don't want you to, either." And the rest is
history. He is such a happier boy. Our relationship is so much more fluid and easy.
I have stopped yelling. It's truly transformed our lives.

I'm not saying that everything is easy, by any means. I still struggle with
getting the house clean and usually I just make Zack help. I's not always fun
initially, but I found that if we put on his hard rock music (Linkin Park is
his fave) we usually go to town and actually enjoy the work (with several
dancing breaks in between).
BUT...I just asked him to read your post, Beth, and it brought up a great
discussion between us. We are going to change our MO. We agreed that two things
have to happen for it to work and both of us be happy. The first is that I
have to really allow it to be his choice to help--that if he says no, I need
to accept it and move on. The second is that Zack needs to work on wanting to
help a little more. He said that after he read your post, he thinks he will.

We will see.

Again, thank you!

Tamlyn Jordan
405-990-9524
www.univera.com

_www.mynetimpact.com_ (http://www.univera.com/)
Use visitor ID# 1252031

Learn why medical doctors use and recommend our life changing products..
_http://www.mynetimpact.com/doctors.cfm_ (http://www.mynetimpact.com/doctors.cfm)





**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vickisue Gray

All these posts have been making me think of this past weekend.  See, last Friday early morning, I was awoken to what felt like a bug on me.  I slapped my arm and sure enough, it was!  I was so totally grossed out.  My spouse laughed and said no matter how clean the house is, we live in Florida, in a swamp, and bugs happen.
 
I'm 45yo!  I've lived in Florida 31 years and never had a bug in my bed!  Needless to say, I wasn't sleeping in there until the room was cleaned from top to bottom including moving the mattress, heavy furniture, etc. 
 
My spouse just told me I was being silly and that he could get the whole house clean and still have time to hang out at the glider field.
 
Weeeeelllll....hmmmmm.... Ok. Bets on.  It was hard, but I left him to it.
 
Saturday came and went and nothing was done.  Movies were watched, games played and as a family, we had a really wonderful time.  (I kept my thoughts in check about messes and bugs.)
 
Sunday, I took my 18yo shopping with me.  We were gone for a few hours.  When we got home with the groceries, still nothing was done. 
 
What surprised me, was come sunset, all of a sudden, my family started cleaning!  I never said a word!  No yelling, no muttering nor requesting.  My spouse lifted the mattress so the 10yo could climb under and vacuum.  They laughed and played and by the end of the night the house was clean, the laundry all washed, folded and put away.  The kitchen floor was even washed! 
 
They helped because they wanted to and it was the sweetest thing ever. 
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cori Belliveau

I'll be happy to clean up my toys when the girls are old enough to cook for
me ;-)

On 7/29/08, janewalker_sc <scottjanewalker@...> wrote:
>
> Jeanette,
>
> I'm a new member coming out of lurkdom because of your fabulous post,
> Jeanette! You are inspiring! I love your ideas about making cleaning
> up fun. It sounds like you and I are much alike in terms of our
> cleaning personalities. I love to do projects, where I'm making
> something better, but I get SO bored with the maintenance-type
> cleaning! Thanks for sharing some awesome ideas!
>
> Jane
>
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Jeanette Crichton
> <jeanettec_99@...> wrote:
> >
> > "Keeping" my house tidy just doesn't happen around here. Nothing
> is all that consistent so that I have that perfect house all of the
> time. However, when I really have a need for a clean and tidy house
> I can get pretty creative and I enjoy the creative process of
> planning how to do it. I don't usually stick to one routine because
> it gets boring for me. Here are a few suggestions that helped me:
> >
> > 1) I need adrenaline or excitement to get into the mood for
> cleaning, etc. Sometimes I plan to have someone over just to keep
> the excitement high, or I try to "Surprise" my husband with a really
> clean house, or I play cleaning games with the kids. One of my kids
> (I have 3 and 5 yo boys and I'm 34 weeks pregnant with another boy)
> really likes to play I spy. I usually spy something wrong with a
> room and he puts everything back where it belongs. Once everything
> is back where it belongs, I tell him what the secret item was and if
> he put it away. Then he does the same thing in a room that I'm
> cleaning. My 3yo doesn't like to do it very much if his older
> brother is playing too because then he thinks that he lost.
> >
> > 2) If I have a lot of house work to do and my kids are bored, I
> play while I'm cleaning. I turn into some character and the
> silliness begins. We have pretended that our house is a hotel and we
> are getting ready for a king and queen to come visit. I play the
> bossy head maid and my son loves to be the irresponsible janitor. We
> have also made giant piles of laundry to jump in and throw around.
> Then the kids usually sort it ALL for me. My 3 yo loves to clean
> with me. He has his own cleaning cart (a kid's shopping cart)
> complete with vinegar and water spray bottles, baking soda (for
> scrubbing), rags, dusters, trash bags tied on the sides, and a bucket
> and small mop. He loves to wet his hands pour baking soda on them
> and scrub my shower.
> >
> > 3) Another thing I like to do is make a BIGGER mess. For example,
> if a room is really bugging me, I like to start from scratch and
> reorganize or rearrange. My kids love this! And my oldest asks for
> days if we can redo the house. I recently emptied my entire pantry
> onto the kitchen table and putting it all back took all day, but then
> I had a really neat pantry. The kids stayed busy checking out all of
> the food that they usually don't see and then they loved helping me
> decide how to organize it all back on the shelves. My oldest helped
> me until the very end.
> >
> > 4) Another thing that plays into the adrenaline thing for me is to
> set a timer. When the kids ask why I'm moving so fast, I tell them
> and sometimes they want to get in on the fun. I usually say
> something like: I'm trying to get this room picked up in 3 minutes.
> >
> > 5) Baskets are great for a quick tidy. I don't like to sort the
> baskets, but I just stick them in the guest room or closet and my
> husband doesn't mind doing some quick sorts once in a while. My
> husband is much better at picking up and I'm much better at deep
> cleaning so that's usually how things get done around here.
> >
> > 6) I am very comfortable in a mess and I think that helps to keep
> things low stress. However, I think we all function better when
> things are much more tidy, so that's the way I try to keep things.
> >
> > 7) Try to think about how your kids play and how the "mess" is
> created. For example, my boys love to play legos, but if they played
> with them all over the floor I'd be picking them up for hours. We
> use a play table (large train table with drawers under) for their
> legos. This way they never have to pick them up. It's an ongoing
> creative process. Ask yourself "What is making the mess?" "How can
> I make things easier on myself?" Get creative. My boys used to
> leave their dress up clothes all over the house until I created a
> special "dressing room" in one of our closets. We have a family
> closet for all of our clothes, so that has freed up some other
> closets and those are great places to make "messes".
> >
> > 8) Use more "grown up" things for play. For example, we used to
> have all kinds of art supplies for the kids but they always wanted to
> use my husband's stuff. We have gotten rid of all of the "kid" art
> stuff and have simplified our art supplies. Another example of this
> is tools. My 3yo loves tools. He had a bunch of fake tools, but
> they would get scattered all over the house. I have started helping
> him use adult tools instead and he has REALLY enjoyed this! He likes
> to hammer nails into boxes or even wood.
> >
> > 9) Consider the length of time that your kids stay interested in a
> toy. Is it a toy that they just dig out, look at it for a second and
> throw it aside? I think that it's important for kids to "check out"
> toys, but we usually do this at toy stores, garage sales, and other
> kid's houses. I don't keep things that don't get played with. If
> they play with their stuffed animals once a month for a long and fun
> play time, then I'd keep a basket of them in the top of the closet
> for when they're ready for them. But if they have a couple of
> stuffed animals that they just throw aside to get to other toys, I'd
> get rid of them. My friends and I love to have swap playdates, where
> everyone brings a bag of toys to trade. Only having toys around that
> your kids love really seems to help with the "mess".
> >
> > The bottom line is that you need to get creative to keep things
> tidy without all of the negative feelings and you have to practice
> making and enjoying messes with your children.
> >
> > Best wishes!
> > Jeanette
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: karend27 <karend27@...>
> > To: [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:07:47 PM
> > Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Keeping your house tidy
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > First-time poster. I was wondering what strategies any of you might
> > like to pass on in terms of keeping your house tidy in your
> > unschooling world. I have two boys - 5 and almost 3 - and I have to
> > say the state of the house is really bugging me. We spend anywhere
> > from 30 minutes to an hour every evening tidying up (I'm not talking
> > about cleaning, just picking up), and what happens a lot is I start
> > snapping at the kids (which I really don't like, because I'm
> normally
> > pretty laid back and mellow), but it's usually just me putting
> > everything away, while they move one block at a time using a tiny
> lego
> > wheelbarrow to push it across the floor:)
> > We only pick up once a day, but still, it's starting to really
> > irritate me. I probably am a perfectionist in that I find I just
> feel
> > a lot better and my mind feels clearer when I am not looking out on
> a
> > lot of clutter (not to mention the injured feet after stepping on
> the
> > umpteenth pointy block in the kitchen floor) Interested to know any
> > strategies you all have either practical in terms of tidying, or
> > mental (i.e., coping strategies for me).
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

> "They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a courtesy to me
> for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other
> things they
> need me for."

If they get a choice, and they are choosing to do it as a courtesy,
then that's exactly what we talk about as radical unschoolers. Most of
our kids DO get to this point and it is very sweet when it happens.

If they aren't getting a choice, then they are not doing it as a
courtesy to you, they are doing because you're making them do it. They
aren't showing that they care about you, they're not showing
consideration, they aren't even showing appreciation of what you do
for them, they're doing it because they have no choice.

If someone's goal is really to get somebody else to pick up the toys,
then making the kids do it is certainly workable. If a family has a
system set up and nobody is complaining or unhappy about it, then they
may not see any problem and may wonder why all the discussion about
chores at all.

I'm not sure if what i just wrote was clear - my point is that someone
might have children who are compliant types, who "go along" with mom's
plan without resistance. And, Mom might be especially good at getting
willing cooperation. It could work. We've had periods of time in my
children's lives during which I could say, "Let's all spend some time
cleaning the house," and they'd just do it with great attitudes. I've
had other times that I could solicit their help if I made it fun - we
played 'army' - I was their sergeant and would give orders - they'd
salute and say YES SIR and run and do it. We played search and rescue
games. We played spy games. It was really quite fun and the kids
remember those as games as much as cleaning times.

I honestly see no negative repercussions from the above - a key
element, though, was that we did it only as long as the kids were into
it.

However, that is quite different than chore charts with "consequences"
for noncompliance. I see the possibility of negative repercussions and
one of those is that kids who don't have a choice can't MAKE a choice
and so they can't "show courtesy" if they are doing what they have
been ordered to do. They can show compliance or resistance, that's
about it. Lots of times kids respond with passive resistance - they do
the minimum they can get by with. What are they learning from that?

Whenever I went through a phase of trying to "require" chores, I'd end
up having to list every little thing I wanted done. I could not say,
"Clean the kitchen," I'd have to say, "Unload the dishwasher putting
things in their correct places. Rinse the dishes well before putting
them into the dishwasher. Be sure to load the dishwasher correctly or
the dishes won't get clean. Run all the garbage down the garbage
disposal. Sort all of the trash into the trash can or the recycling
box. Put away any food that is out. Cover dishes before putting them
into the refrigerator. Don't put utensils into the refrigerator with
the leftovers. Wipe off all the counters. Wipe off the stove top.
Clean the sink. Clean the little counter behind the sink. Sweep the
floor. Be sure to sweep the corners and edges. Use the dustpan to pick
up what you swept and throw it into the trash. Put the broom and
dustpan away." And on and on. They'd ONLY do what I told them to do -
no more.

In contrast, when they "choose" to clean the kitchen, they take pride
in it and do a great job and they notice that the counters need wiping
and the floor swept and so on, and I don't have to tell them.

Our biggest problem is not lack of willingness to help - they want to
help and know that it feels good to be helpful. Our biggest problem is
that we ALL have other things we'd rather do and, minute by minute,
housework always gets a lower priority than something else. So,
sometimes I ask for help, because that supports them in doing what
they want to do, anyway.

ON the other hand, my oldest daughter now has her own house to care
for and she does just fine. It gets super messy (just like ours would)
and then she cleans it all up in a frenzy of concentrated effort.
That's always pretty much been my style, too. As I've gotten older, I
have begun to enjoy keeping things a little cleaner and more organized
by doing more ongoing day-to-day maintenance, rather than spending a
hard-working day cleaning the house every so often. But, really, it is
clear to me that this is just a preference - either way is fine.

-pam

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Cori Belliveau <coribell@...>


My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have seen
how
quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable ideas, so I'm a
bit
scared to continue, but chores work for us.)

-=-=-=-=-

Advice that works *against* the parent/child relationship and
unschooling will be criticized. If it doesn't help parents unschool or
work towards a partnership with their kids, why would we let it by?

-=-=-=-==-

I don't want the kids to grow
up feeling like they have a free pass to destroy the place and follow
their
every whim while I have to go behind them with a shovel and a spray
bottle!!

-=-=-=-=

So you think we *do*????

Maybe you're assuming that our goal is filthy monsters who never help.

*My* goal is to have grown children who see caring for the people and
things they love as a normal part of a kind and generous life.

I don't want my children to expect others to do things for them out of
guilt or repayment or duty. I want them to see that I do for them out
of love and caring. And I want them to do the same for me---when
they're ready to do that.

-=-=-=-=-

It doesn't take that long when we all help, and I tell them it's
part of living with other people.

-=-=-=-=-

Right. And mine do help. But not because I make them but because they
want to. Because it's NICE to help each other.

-=-=-=-=-

I don't want to pick up my stinky old
socks any more than they do, but I do it as a courtesy to them to keep
the
house livable.

-=-=-=-=-

There's the difference! I WANT to pick up my stinky old socks, so my
children do too.

My children pick up after me out of courtesy, NOT obligation. Because
that's been modeled to them for years now.

-=-=-=-=-

They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a courtesy to me
for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other things
they
need me for.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I don't tie what I do for them to what they do for me. We do things for
each other because we love each other. Not because there's some running
tally sheet.

--=-=-=-=-

They each have different chores (that they chose) and we do
them right after breakfast. I clean up at the same time so we're all
in it
together. I even ask the baby (16 mo) to carry her breakfast bowl to
the
kitchen. She loves it!

-=-=-=-

What if she said no?

Is it really a request? Or is it a demand cloaked in a question?

-=-=-=-=-=-

The other two (6 and 4) aren't thrilled, but they
do appreciate the expediency of having a kitchen ready for that
impromptu
baking experiment, or a dining room table cleared of crumbs and ready
for
play dough, and the most important - knowing where their shoes are so
they
can head for the woods.

-=-=-=-=-

Mine ARE thrilled to have a clean canvass to work on. They are thrilled
to do what it takes to get us there.

We don't see cleaning up after ourselves or each other as a chore. It's
a pleasure to care for the ones and the things we love.

It's all about perception. We see it as helping each other---for no
other reason than we love each other.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org




**************************************
See what's new at http://www.aol.com

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

I don't want to pick up my stinky old
socks any more than they do
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
So would not want to pick up their "stinky old socks"?
 I don't mind picking my kids or dh's "stinky old socks"
I do it for them without thinking twice.
I know a couple of moms in my life that would love to pick up their kid's or husband's "stinky old socks"
if onlt they were still alive to leave them out again.
Cherrish it .
Change the way you see it.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Unschooling Basics, for as long as I have been a member and probably from
inception, is not a good place to do a "hit and run" post. :) Once posted
it becomes a discussion that anyone can pick through in light of unschooling
principles.

For a 6 and 4 year old to be thrilled with chores, one way to look at it is
tidying and cleaning is a process. In unschooling terms, the process
doesn't belong to the parent but to the child. This preserves children's
relationship with that part of their lives and makes it theirs right from
the beginning. Otherwise it's not theirs until grow others and take the
process out of the hands of those who are holding onto it.

Making kids do chores is not a way to make the process theirs. It's really
still just a parent's process of getting the house clean, and isn't about
the kids at all. Because if it was about the kids, then the kids would be
making more of the decisions, like whether or not to clean, tidy or whatnot
in the first place.

~Katherine




On 7/29/08, Cori Belliveau <coribell@...> wrote:
>
> My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have seen
> how
> quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable ideas, so I'm a bit
> scared to continue, but chores work for us.) I don't want the kids to grow
> up feeling like they have a free pass to destroy the place and follow their
> every whim while I have to go behind them with a shovel and a spray
> bottle!! It doesn't take that long when we all help, and I tell them it's
> part of living with other people. I don't want to pick up my stinky old
> socks any more than they do, but I do it as a courtesy to them to keep the
> house livable. They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a courtesy to me
> for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other things
> they
> need me for. They each have different chores (that they chose) and we do
> them right after breakfast. I clean up at the same time so we're all in it
> together. I even ask the baby (16 mo) to carry her breakfast bowl to the
> kitchen. She loves it! The other two (6 and 4) aren't thrilled, but they
> do appreciate the expediency of having a kitchen ready for that impromptu
> baking experiment, or a dining room table cleared of crumbs and ready for
> play dough, and the most important - knowing where their shoes are so they
> can head for the woods.
> Cori
>
> http://coriandthegirls.livejournal.com
>
> .
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

I can really bugger up a post.

I said: Otherwise it's not theirs until grow others and take the process out
of the hands of those who are holding onto it.

I meant to say: Otherwise it's not theirs until they're grown and can take
the process out of the hands of those who are holding onto it.

~Katherine, who can do better at proofreading when she tries

On 7/29/08, k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> Unschooling Basics, for as long as I have been a member and probably from
> inception, is not a good place to do a "hit and run" post. :) Once posted
> it becomes a discussion that anyone can pick through in light of unschooling
> principles.
>
> For a 6 and 4 year old to be thrilled with chores, one way to look at it is
> tidying and cleaning is a process. In unschooling terms, the process
> doesn't belong to the parent but to the child. This preserves children's
> relationship with that part of their lives and makes it theirs right from
> the beginning. Otherwise it's not theirs until grow others and take the
> process out of the hands of those who are holding onto it.
>
> Making kids do chores is not a way to make the process theirs. It's
> really still just a parent's process of getting the house clean, and isn't
> about the kids at all. Because if it was about the kids, then the kids
> would be making more of the decisions, like whether or not to clean, tidy or
> whatnot in the first place.
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
>
> On 7/29/08, Cori Belliveau <coribell@...> wrote:
>>
>> My kids do chores. (I've never posted here before because I have seen
>> how
>> quickly you attack people who post certain unlikeable ideas, so I'm a bit
>> scared to continue, but chores work for us.) I don't want the kids to grow
>> up feeling like they have a free pass to destroy the place and follow
>> their
>> every whim while I have to go behind them with a shovel and a spray
>> bottle!! It doesn't take that long when we all help, and I tell them it's
>> part of living with other people. I don't want to pick up my stinky old
>> socks any more than they do, but I do it as a courtesy to them to keep the
>> house livable. They keep the toys and whatnot picked up as a courtesy to
>> me
>> for cooking their food, driving them places, and a million other things
>> they
>> need me for. They each have different chores (that they chose) and we do
>> them right after breakfast. I clean up at the same time so we're all in it
>> together. I even ask the baby (16 mo) to carry her breakfast bowl to the
>> kitchen. She loves it! The other two (6 and 4) aren't thrilled, but they
>> do appreciate the expediency of having a kitchen ready for that impromptu
>> baking experiment, or a dining room table cleared of crumbs and ready for
>> play dough, and the most important - knowing where their shoes are so they
>> can head for the woods.
>> Cori
>>
>> http://coriandthegirls.livejournal.com
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carnationsgalore

> Cori Belliveau <coribell@...> wrote:
> I suppose I should just unsubscribe from the group, but my issue
> here is that unschooling isn't just one thing. This group - or
> any group - doesn't "own" the idea.

So let's discuss what unschooling is then. In my years of
homeschooling, I've seen people try to define it by making it fit
what their view of unschooling is supposed to be.

> Just as Dayna mentioned in a video about sitting with the
> kids as they watch TV, unschooling doesn't mean unsupervised
> chaos.

Oh my, is that what you think unschooling is? Unsupervised chaos? I
work harder at being an unschooling mom than I worked when I had
rules in my house for cleaning, bedtimes, schoolwork, etc. I'm
always amazed when I see someone suggest that unschooling is taking
the easy way out of parenting by letting their kids run wild and do
whatever they want. My kids aren't wild and while they do things
they want to do, they're done with my help and usually my
supervision. I take full responsibility of what my children are
doing. I truly believe children just want to live happily and need
my support to do so.

> As a family, we've decided that chores makes the house run
> smoothly for all of us.

So your whole family sat down to discuss this and everyone
volunteered to have a chore list? Does that mean they can choose not
to do the chores if they don't want to?

> The other mom asked the question about how to keep it all clean
> and I answered her with what works for my unschooled kids. Like
> it or not, unschoolers come in a rainbow of degrees and you have
> to accept that.

I'm not sure that unschoolers really come in a rainbow of degrees.
Do they? What are the degrees? How are they defined?

> Letting little kids stay up all hours of the night and doing all
> the cleaning yourself (or just ignoring it) is fine if that works
> for you.

Actually, our unschooling lifestyle is more centered on what works
for all of us, not just me, my DH or just my kids. We are treated
equally. I've seen lots of unschoolers on this list and others who
feel that living freely and joyfully is unschooling.

> However, If it worked for the mom who asked the question she
> probably wouldn't have asked it.
> Peace, Cori

Or maybe she's interested in learning how others who have no
restrictions or expectations of their children view this topic. I've
been on other parenting and homeschooling boards and the general
topics like chores and bedtimes are very different from what I see on
unschooling lists.

Beth M.

karend27

Thanks so much for ALL the replies - especially everyone who wrote
lengthy and considered replies, I really appreciate the time and
kindness you all had to do that.

I'm armed now with some practical ideas (thanks Jeannette - I like
the idea of coming up with a lego "place" and I definitely need to
buy more baskets - I have some but I think I need a few empty ones at
strategic places in the house), but the two most helpful suggestions
to me were the following (and there were others that followed this
vein):

"I think it was Meredith who wrote that basically her home was a
canvas. She
sees it as her responsibility to provide her kids with a clean one to
create
on. This helps me a lot."

and

"And when you do clean toys up, realize it's because *you* don't like
the
"mess" (what I prefer to call creative output) -- not because they
don't
like it. You are cleaning it up for your *own* sake. So don't expect
them to
naturally want to do it. "

missalexmissalex

Now I only have a toddler, so I can't speak to kid involvement. I
wanted to chip in though and say that I went through a big FlyLady
phase myself for a few months. The biggest thing for me is the weekly
zones. She has a rotation--third week is bathrooms, etc. (Although I
don't know if that is correct. I just write it in my calendar.) This
is what keeps me from panicking. My whole life, I would stare at
things in my house and think I *should* take care of it. Now it never
takes me more than 2 months, because every week I look for something
that needs to be done/maintained/deep-cleaned in that room. If I plan
it and it doesn't happen, I don't feel like I'll NEVER do it--I know
I'll do it next month. Likewise, the day to day mess that builds up
doesn't freak me out as bad because I know once a month I clear any
piles away. Well, most, anyway. :)

Alex
mom to Katya, 14 mos

> I follow Flylady's routines loosley, and the important messages I
took away are:
>
> 1. If it matters to you, do it yourself. Don't mope because no
one else thinks it is important and won't do it.
>
> 2. If you do it, they will follow. Model the behavior or actions,
and the family may pick up on it...or not.
>
> 3. You can accomplish a lot in 15 minutes a day.
>
> We have allergies, fleas, and roaches (yay, FL) so keeping the
house tidy is important to me for the health of the family. I keep
those ideas in mind when doing housework, and find my house generally
tidy by doing about 15-30 minutes a day.
>
> Robin Krest