daskufgirl

Hi,
I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the end
of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I have
been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and am
excited about this journey.

My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.
Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to insist
on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt anyone
with an aggressive outburst. Well, since I have been doing so much
reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive and
try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let him
watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has led
us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he finishes
watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and immediately
starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he lashes
out.

Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit the
screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity until
he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty for
this because I am limiting his freedom.

Any advice? I am at a loss and really dont want to throw in the RU
towel :(

Thanks for reading,
Stacey

k

Ds just turned 5. Right before then for a few weeks, there were so many
changes going on for him all at once. It's was another of those huge
developmental leaps! He couldn't take it easy sometimes and often "lost" it
over the slightest thing. He was tired a lot. I made sure to offer plenty
of protein and anything for brain food: fat and sugar... quick energy. Ds
ate a ton of things like grapes, cantaloupe, apples, cheese, and yogurt.
At times he barely ate and other times he ate like there was no tomorrow.
He got drained quickly. He drank more milk than usual. He didn't hardly
want to sleep but when he did sleep it was for longer periods. Catching
up. He's still doing a good bit of all these things and he's starting to
feel better. He's also figuring out how to pace himself a little better.
He's beginning to simmer down again.

His body is outgrowing his accustomed body knowledge. Suddenly he grew and
didn't know how far his arms and legs go out anymore. And he inadvertently
hurts himself and others. Similar to not realizing it's time to cut your
nails and before you get a chance to, it breaks. This frustrated him no
end, even though I explained to him that since his body is growing fast,
it's just going to take a bit of time to get used to his new size.

Also growing pains. They're a beast! When I was a kid I didn't know what
caused my legs to hurt so much sometimes.

~Katherine


On 7/14/08, daskufgirl <daskufgirl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the end
> of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
> unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I have
> been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and am
> excited about this journey.
>
> My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.
> Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to insist
> on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt anyone
> with an aggressive outburst. Well, since I have been doing so much
> reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive and
> try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let him
> watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has led
> us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
> So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he finishes
> watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
> tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and immediately
> starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he lashes
> out.
>
> Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit the
> screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity until
> he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty for
> this because I am limiting his freedom.
>
> Any advice? I am at a loss and really dont want to throw in the RU
> towel :(
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Stacey
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Nishan

http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/time-in

This is something I wish I had come across when my daughter was
little.
Kelly

--- In [email protected], "daskufgirl"
<daskufgirl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the
end
> of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
> unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I
have
> been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and
am
> excited about this journey.
>
> My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.
> Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to
insist
> on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt
anyone
> with an aggressive outburst. Well, since I have been doing so much
> reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive
and
> try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let
him
> watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has
led
> us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
> So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he
finishes
> watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
> tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and
immediately
> starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he
lashes
> out.
>
> Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit
the
> screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity
until
> he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty
for
> this because I am limiting his freedom.
>
> Any advice? I am at a loss and really dont want to throw in the RU
> towel :(
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Stacey
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jul 14, 2008, at 8:27 PM, daskufgirl wrote:

> My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.

Have you read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene?
http://tinyurl.com/5bhh5r

Lots of people have said it gave them great insight into their child.

While you're waiting for it, know that he doesn't want to be
aggressive. I think too often we see children doing something they
shouldn't and assume 1) they don't care or 2) they don't understand.

But the truth is 1) either they're not ready to understand or 2) it's
not important to them yet.

I'd say the first is true. Kids (and adults!) can understand in their
heads something is true before they're able to use the knowledge.
(How many smokers know they should quit?) That's where he is. The
more you explain, the more frustrated he's going to get because
you're treating him as though he's stupid. Trust that he knows but
the pathways from his head to his body aren't in place yet.

He wants a way he can watch and play without exploding. Talk to him
when he's doing neither and brainstorm some ideas. (And it's okay if
he doesn't know. Some kids don't.) Rather than focusing on the goal
of getting him to stop ranting, just ask him "What can I do to help?"
and be open to new ideas.

Before he goes in to watch or play remind him of what he decided he
might do instead. *Not* as a plan he must stick with. Don't set him
up for failure. It's just an aid to help him remember to try it.

Also be more present. Notice when he's ramping up and offer some
protein snacks. Rather than thinking of this as helping him to stop
ranting, think of helping him develop a choice of life long
strategies to deal with frustration.

Joyce

Schuyler

Hi,
>I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the end
>of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
>unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I have
>been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and am
>excited about this journey.
----------------------------------------------
Yay! It is an exciting journey.
--------------------------------------


>My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
>overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.
>Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to insist
>on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt anyone
>with an aggressive outburst.
-----------------------------------------

See it as a science experiment. Ask yourself what is different between the two things? What is going on with you when he is watching television or playing video games that isn't going on when he isn't doing those things? If you take them as a sort of case-control experiment think about the other things that are going on. So are you feeding him regularly more when he isn't watching television than when he is? Are you bringing him drinks more or less? Are you touching him more or less? Are you sitting with him more or less? Are you talking with him more or less? Think about the other factors that are coming into play when he is watching t.v. or playing a video game and see if one of those might have the effect that you are blaming on television.

On of the things that might help is to think about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs) and see if you aren't taking care of the lower blocks in his pyramid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg) as well when the television is on as when it isn't.

---------------------------
>Well, since I have been doing so much

>reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive and
>try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let him
>watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has led
>us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
>So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he finishes
>watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
>tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and immediately
>starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
>pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he lashes
>out.
---------------------------------------
It's hard to deal with someone else's intense emotions. It is wonderful to be able to figure out a cause and eliminate it, like television or video games. Rarely, though, are those actually the issues. I've spent a lot of time looking at different studies looking at television and behavior and have found nothing that actually demonstrates that television causes hitting or spitting or screaming and calling names. It has happened in our house. I remember very clearly the day that Simon hit Linnaea for turning off the television. I totally blamed his violence on the television and not on the fact that he was watching something he wanted and Linnaea had turned it off. Television was handy, and known evil. It is nice to have a scapegoat crouching in the corner of the kiving room on which I could heap all of my doubts and fears. In the end though, a scapegoat isn't anything real and it helps much more to figure out what the actual cause of the problems is or
are than to just blame something easy.

----------------------
You wrote:

>had to insist
>on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt anyone
>with an aggressive outburst.
>This also has led
>us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
what is this quiet time? Is it him going into his room and playing quietly or lying down for a little bit? Why can't that be incorporated with television? Can't you set up a snuggly nest of blankets and pillows and cuddle up with him and watch a show and just zone out so that he gets a sort of idle time? I don't quite see how watching television excludes quiet time. Or can you get something like legos and sit quietly and build them with him as he watches television? Can you go and rent a dvd that you think he'll enjoy and snuggle up with him and watch it together, all cozy and relaxed and have that work as quiet time?

---------------------

>Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit the
>screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity until
>he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty for
>this because I am limiting his freedom.
----------------
What if he doesn't grow out of it? What if it is with him for all of his life and the only thing that both of you ever believe is that television is scary and powerful and addictive and makes for bad responses and he always has this split personality that is divided between his enjoyment of televison and video games and his knowledge that it makes him bad. Maybe the stage has to do with the control and it will never get to play itself out as he works out his own relationship with the television and video games.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com


_

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Scott Noelle, author of The Daily Groove will be joining us at the Live
and Learn Unschooling Conference in Black Mountain, NC in September.

If all goes well, he'll be debuting his new book there!

A great opportunity to meet Scott, the Daily Groover, himself!

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Nishan <kel9769@...>

http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/time-in

This is something I wish I had come across when my daughter was
little.

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jul 14, 2008, at 5:27 PM, daskufgirl wrote:
>
> My problem is my 4 year old.

I have a suggestion. Go through, starting with the line above, and
change every description of him into something positive.
Changing the way we think about our kids is the first step toward
finding creative solutions. I can't emphasize enough the power of
changing the words we use inside our own heads and in conversation.

Your 4 year old is NOT your problem. In fact, he is giving you a
wonderful opportunity to learn something new, to develop some new
competencies and skills.

Rephrase it - "I would like to find some ways to better support my 4
year old." Or, "I'm here asking for help in better meeting the needs
of my 4 yo."


> He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.

He's FOUR. He's not supposed to have learned to control all his
impulses. I bet he controls a lot of them, though. Also, he has a
personality/a temperament that is HIM - it may be that he is a person
who gets very energized and excited and enthusiastic. This is a
WONDERFUL personality trait - he's the person who will be a natural
leader, an inspiration to others.

Are you overvaluing "calm" and "sweet?" (I used "over"valuing on
purpose - see how using the prefix "over" is a negative?)

>
> Because of this I have always limited screen time

"screen time?" You are lumping together whatever it is he is doing as
if it is all exactly the same thing if it involves a "screen."
What is he REALLY doing? What is he watching? What is he playing? Try
to avoid generalizing about him and his interests.


> and had to insist
> on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt anyone
> with an aggressive outburst.

You didn't "have to" - you chose to do so.

"I chose to insist on a quiet time to insure he wouldn't hurt anyone
with an aggressive outburst."
How do you insist on a quiet time? Do you mean you forced him to sit
and do/say nothing for a while? Locked him in his room for a while?


> Well, since I have been doing so much
> reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive and
> try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let him
> watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants.

So - first you limited it and then totally let go of any restrictions
all at once?

> This also has led
> us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
> So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he finishes
> watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much).

Describe to us how he "finishes" watching tv. What is he watching? How
did he decide what to watch? How does he decide he is finished? Does
he decide not to watch more because there is something else he wants
to do or ?

Also, how long has it been since you dropped the restrictions?
When you had restrictions, did you tell him why you had them - so he
knows you think tv makes him aggressive?

> I have
> tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and immediately
> starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he lashes
> out.

Seems like you're focused on stopping his behavior, but I want to know
what he is so angry about.

There are other ways to help him not lash out so much when something
"sets him off" - again, though, this description is disrespectful and
disempowering. You completely discounted his actual feelings like
they are of no importance at all. Some little things (it doesn't take
much, you said) really really bother him to the point that he gets so
frustrated and angry that he hits, kicks, spits. Can you talk about
what those little irritants are?

>
>
> Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit the
> screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity until
> he grows out of this stage.

Conventional parents don't take their children's inner emotions,
feelings, thoughts, personality characteristics, very seriously.

> Then the RU part of me feels quilty for
> this because I am limiting his freedom.

You've adopted the "no restrictions" thing but not the attentive
parenting part of radical unschooling, maybe?

I've picked at your words a lot - try to take it in the spirit
intended - it will REALLY truly help you to be aware of the words
you're using and the way you're thinking of your child. Improving that
will make more difference than anything else, over time.

I have a lot of potential ideas for you, but need a little more
explanation of what is exactly going on.

-pam

Jamie Minnis

I don't know how truly "unschooly" this is (someone please correct me, if it isn't), but I have noticed that when my son (age6) watches certain shows, his explosiveness seems to increase.  Instead of telling him that I don't want him watching those shows, I talked to him about how some TV shows make me feel nervous or unsettled or upset when I watch them.  I also talked to him about how I can become grumpy when I stay in one place too long.  It was as if a light-bulb went off in his brain when I tried this approach.  Right away, he told me that _____ show made him feel that way and that he didn't want to watch it any more.  From that moment on, he chose not to watch that show.  A few months later, though, he said he DID want to watch it to see if it still made him angry.  It no longer effected him that way, so he was ok with watching it again and so was I.  Since then, he has decided (completely on his own) when to stop watching certain programs
and has even told his 4 year old brother why he won't watch those shows with him.  He just lets his brother watch them and finds something else he wants to do.  This has been amazing for me!  I hope this idea might help.
Jamie



----- Original Message ----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New here and need help with aggressive 4 year old.



On Jul 14, 2008, at 8:27 PM, daskufgirl wrote:

> My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.

Have you read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene?
http://tinyurl. com/5bhh5r

Lots of people have said it gave them great insight into their child.

While you're waiting for it, know that he doesn't want to be
aggressive. I think too often we see children doing something they
shouldn't and assume 1) they don't care or 2) they don't understand.

But the truth is 1) either they're not ready to understand or 2) it's
not important to them yet.

I'd say the first is true. Kids (and adults!) can understand in their
heads something is true before they're able to use the knowledge.
(How many smokers know they should quit?) That's where he is. The
more you explain, the more frustrated he's going to get because
you're treating him as though he's stupid. Trust that he knows but
the pathways from his head to his body aren't in place yet.

He wants a way he can watch and play without exploding. Talk to him
when he's doing neither and brainstorm some ideas. (And it's okay if
he doesn't know. Some kids don't.) Rather than focusing on the goal
of getting him to stop ranting, just ask him "What can I do to help?"
and be open to new ideas.

Before he goes in to watch or play remind him of what he decided he
might do instead. *Not* as a plan he must stick with. Don't set him
up for failure. It's just an aid to help him remember to try it.

Also be more present. Notice when he's ramping up and offer some
protein snacks. Rather than thinking of this as helping him to stop
ranting, think of helping him develop a choice of life long
strategies to deal with frustration.

Joyce





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

daskufgirl

Kelly,
Thank you for this link. This is a lovely idea. I can't wait to have
a time-in with Tommy!

Stacey


--- In [email protected], "Kelly Nishan"
<kel9769@...> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.enjoyparenting.com/daily-groove/time-in
>
> This is something I wish I had come across when my daughter was
> little.
> Kelly
>
> --- In [email protected], "daskufgirl"
> <daskufgirl@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the
> end
> > of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
> > unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I
> have
> > been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and
> am
> > excited about this journey.
> >
> > My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> > overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his
impulses.
> > Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to
> insist
> > on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt
> anyone
> > with an aggressive outburst. Well, since I have been doing so
much
> > reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive
> and
> > try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let
> him
> > watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has
> led
> > us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of
struggle.
> > So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he
> finishes
> > watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
> > tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and
> immediately
> > starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> > pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he
> lashes
> > out.
> >
> > Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit
> the
> > screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity
> until
> > he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty
> for
> > this because I am limiting his freedom.
> >
> > Any advice? I am at a loss and really dont want to throw in the
RU
> > towel :(
> >
> > Thanks for reading,
> > Stacey
> >
>

Jamie Minnis

In my previous post, it may have seemed like I implied to him that the TV show was to blame.  That was definitely not the case.  My son is a wonderfully sensitive child who truly FEELS the emotions of the characters on TV.  He worries about every injustice and physical hurt that happens on the screen, even if they are supposed to be funny.  These worries continue throughout the rest of the day.  He may lash out at his brother and then start crying about something that he was sad on the show.  In addition to also discussing how TV makes us feel at times, I have learned that truly being there for him and watching the shows with him has helped me to not only understand what is "causing" his sadness and frustration, but also begin to point out to him how the characters solve their problems.  This has helped him begin to think of new ways to solve any problems he has with his brother.  I, personally, think that TV has been a true blessing for my
relationship with my wonderful "explosive" child. 
 
Oh!  Being present with him has also shown me how desensitized to others feelings I have become.  (Why doesn't a cartoon character's sadness effect me like it used to?)  Anyway, that is another tangent.

Jamie


----- Original Message ----
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:47:27 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New here and need help with aggressive 4 year old.



> I have
> tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and immediately
> starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he lashes
> out.

Seems like you're focused on stopping his behavior, but I want to know
what he is so angry about.

There are other ways to help him not lash out so much when something
"sets him off" - again, though, this description is disrespectful and
disempowering. You completely discounted his actual feelings like
they are of no importance at all. Some little things (it doesn't take
much, you said) really really bother him to the point that he gets so
frustrated and angry that he hits, kicks, spits. Can you talk about
what those little irritants are?

>
>
> Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit the
> screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity until
> he grows out of this stage.

Conventional parents don't take their children's inner emotions,
feelings, thoughts, personality characteristics, very seriously.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "daskufgirl"
<daskufgirl@...> wrote:
>I have let him
> watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has
led
> us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
> So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he
finishes
> watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much).

What's he doing *while* watching tv? If he's "just watching" then it
could be that he needs a way to be more physical. For the longest
time we had a rotation of "large motor toys" for Mo to play with
while watching tv - a sit-n-spin, a big ball with a handle (you sit
on it and bounce), a skateboard - and the living room chairs were
braced against the walls so she could jump on them.

Oh! for awhile we had an inflatable punching bag - the kind that you
hit and it falls over and pops back up. We got it when Mo was in
a "punching" phase and it was really helpful for her to be able to
bang on something to her heart's content *while* watching tv.

Another thought is food, which I see has already been mentioned, but
I'll say it again for emphasis - make sure he's getting snacks,
especially protein!

The other thing to remember is that Tommy watching tv doesn't mean
mommy gets to wander off and do laundry or whatever - treat it just
like any other "activity". If you let tv-watching be a source of
separation, he could be hitting, spitting etc as an attempt to re-
connect with you. Its not a very *good* strategy, but he doesn't
exactly have a lot of tools yet ;)

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Therese

Hi Stacy!

I have a sensitive and spirited 4 1/2 year old girl and a 2 year old
girl (still nursing). We also are excited to start this unschooling
journey! Once I started to read about radical unschooling and non-
coercive parenting I also let go of most of the rules (except for
dangerous things ofcourse) and I did much like you described;
allowing unlimited tv, computer, following her interests, etc. And
she started to lose it, cry, scream, hit, etc just as you described
too. Once I let my guard down and trusted her, things got WORSE for
a while. And I have heard on other parenting boards as well that any
time you change your parenting from high limits to no/low limits the
children will 'act out' more to see where the new boundries are, and
if mommy really does unconditionally love without coercion or if it
will just go back the way it was.

I just upheld my personal boundry of 'WE dont hit', 'hitting hurts,
and then give lots and lots of love and attention. I have found that
when they are acting out, they usually need lots of love and
patience.

TV also can over-stimulate my daughter, and so when there were no
limits she wanted to test that and watch all day. I let her and she
spent much time crying after that. I talked to her about how she
feels when she sits all day and not get out to run, and she decided
she wanted to have time outside to run more. She is still learning
her own tv viewing limits, but she is doing so much better now after
that first week of testing, and watching a lot less naturally. The
hitting, whining, crying phase has almost all melted away after a few
weeks of staying consistent in my gentle parenting. Just like the
key in any parenting technique is confidence and consistency, same
with non-coercive parenting.

One book that was recommended here was Naomi Aldort's "Raising Our
Children, Raising Ourselves". She is an unschooling writer as well
and her book has been so so helpful.

You can also watch her on YouTube- this video (someone here sent it
to me) and I found it helpful to understand that we are still our
children's leader.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DPOXyiDkZf8

Don't worry- it will get better! Keep going!

Therese
www.xanga.com/bornfreebaby


--- In [email protected], "daskufgirl"
<daskufgirl@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the
end
> of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
> unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I
have
> been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and
am
> excited about this journey.
>
> My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.
> Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to insist
> on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt anyone
> with an aggressive outburst. Well, since I have been doing so much
> reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive
and
> try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let
him
> watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has led
> us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
> So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he
finishes
> watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
> tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and
immediately
> starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he
lashes
> out.
>
> Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit
the
> screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity until
> he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty for
> this because I am limiting his freedom.
>
> Any advice? I am at a loss and really dont want to throw in the RU
> towel :(
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Stacey
>

daskufgirl

--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> Ds just turned 5. Right before then for a few weeks, there were so
many
> changes going on for him all at once. It's was another of those
huge
> developmental leaps! He couldn't take it easy sometimes and
often "lost" it
> over the slightest thing. He was tired a lot. I made sure to
offer plenty
> of protein and anything for brain food: fat and sugar... quick
energy. Ds
> ate a ton of things like grapes, cantaloupe, apples, cheese, and
yogurt.


This sounds ALOT like Tommy. He has undergone SO many emotional
changes lately. A new sibling, weaning,and potty training, just to
name a few. I am sure he is so overwhelmed by these changes that it
is hard for him not to be explosive. It would be hard for anyone I
assume.

Having healthy snacks offered to him more is a good suggestion that I
will keep in mind. I tend to forget snacks when we are busy.

Thanks for the reply!
>
>
>
> On 7/14/08, daskufgirl <daskufgirl@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the
end
> > of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
> > unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I
have
> > been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and
am
> > excited about this journey.
> >
> > My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> > overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his impulses.
> > Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to
insist
> > on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt
anyone
> > with an aggressive outburst. Well, since I have been doing so much
> > reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive
and
> > try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let
him
> > watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has
led
> > us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of struggle.
> > So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he
finishes
> > watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
> > tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and
immediately
> > starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> > pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he
lashes
> > out.
> >
> > Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit
the
> > screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity
until
> > he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty
for
> > this because I am limiting his freedom.
> >
> > Any advice? I am at a loss and really dont want to throw in the RU
> > towel :(
> >
> > Thanks for reading,
> > Stacey
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

daskufgirl

Therese,
Thank you for this reply! It is so nice to hear that someone else has
gone through a very similar thing and that your daughter is starting
to naturally regulate her TV watching.

You have really helped me!

Stacey


--- In [email protected], "Therese"
<theresefranklin@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Stacy!
>
> I have a sensitive and spirited 4 1/2 year old girl and a 2 year
old
> girl (still nursing). We also are excited to start this
unschooling
> journey! Once I started to read about radical unschooling and non-
> coercive parenting I also let go of most of the rules (except for
> dangerous things ofcourse) and I did much like you described;
> allowing unlimited tv, computer, following her interests, etc. And
> she started to lose it, cry, scream, hit, etc just as you described
> too. Once I let my guard down and trusted her, things got WORSE
for
> a while. And I have heard on other parenting boards as well that
any
> time you change your parenting from high limits to no/low limits
the
> children will 'act out' more to see where the new boundries are,
and
> if mommy really does unconditionally love without coercion or if it
> will just go back the way it was.
>
> I just upheld my personal boundry of 'WE dont hit', 'hitting hurts,
> and then give lots and lots of love and attention. I have found
that
> when they are acting out, they usually need lots of love and
> patience.
>
> TV also can over-stimulate my daughter, and so when there were no
> limits she wanted to test that and watch all day. I let her and
she
> spent much time crying after that. I talked to her about how she
> feels when she sits all day and not get out to run, and she decided
> she wanted to have time outside to run more. She is still learning
> her own tv viewing limits, but she is doing so much better now
after
> that first week of testing, and watching a lot less naturally. The
> hitting, whining, crying phase has almost all melted away after a
few
> weeks of staying consistent in my gentle parenting. Just like the
> key in any parenting technique is confidence and consistency, same
> with non-coercive parenting.
>
> One book that was recommended here was Naomi Aldort's "Raising Our
> Children, Raising Ourselves". She is an unschooling writer as well
> and her book has been so so helpful.
>
> You can also watch her on YouTube- this video (someone here sent it
> to me) and I found it helpful to understand that we are still our
> children's leader.
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=DPOXyiDkZf8
>
> Don't worry- it will get better! Keep going!
>
> Therese
> www.xanga.com/bornfreebaby
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "daskufgirl"
> <daskufgirl@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I am new to the group. I have a son, Tommy, who will be 4 at the
> end
> > of the month and a 5 month old dd. We have known we are going to
> > unschool for awhile now and are aiming at radical unschooling. I
> have
> > been reading almost everything I can get my hands on about RU and
> am
> > excited about this journey.
> >
> > My problem is my 4 year old. He is a calm, sweet, child who gets
> > overstimulated VERY quickly and then can not control his
impulses.
> > Because of this I have always limited screen time and had to
insist
> > on some sort of quiet time in order to ensure he doesnt hurt
anyone
> > with an aggressive outburst. Well, since I have been doing so
much
> > reading lately about RUing I have decided to become less coersive
> and
> > try to bring more joy to all of our lives. Therefore, I have let
> him
> > watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has
led
> > us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of
struggle.
> > So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he
> finishes
> > watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much). I have
> > tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and
> immediately
> > starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> > pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he
> lashes
> > out.
> >
> > Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit
> the
> > screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity
until
> > he grows out of this stage. Then the RU part of me feels quilty
for
> > this because I am limiting his freedom.
> >
> > Any advice? I am at a loss and really dont want to throw in the
RU
> > towel :(
> >
> > Thanks for reading,
> > Stacey
> >
>

daskufgirl

Oh! for awhile we had an inflatable punching bag - the kind that you
> hit and it falls over and pops back up. We got it when Mo was in
> a "punching" phase and it was really helpful for her to be able to
> bang on something to her heart's content *while* watching tv

Meredith,
We just got back from the store. We bought a blow-up punching bag! He
loves it. What a great, safe way for a child to get their
anger/aggression out.

The other thing to remember is that Tommy watching tv doesn't mean
> mommy gets to wander off and do laundry or whatever - treat it just
> like any other "activity". If you let tv-watching be a source of
> separation, he could be hitting, spitting etc as an attempt to re-
> connect with you. Its not a very *good* strategy, but he doesn't
> exactly have a lot of tools yet ;)

This is a wonderful point. I do tend to use his tv watching and VG
playing time as a break or a time to spend one-on-one time with
Chloe. He is probably feeling disconnected. I will definately attempt
to be with him more and see if it helps.

Thank you.
Stacey


--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <meredith@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "daskufgirl"
> <daskufgirl@> wrote:
> >I have let him
> > watch TV when he wants and play VG when he wants. This also has
> led
> > us to ditching "quiet time" which has become a source of
struggle.
> > So, what happens... he starts hitting, spitting, etc when he
> finishes
> > watching TV and anything sets him off (doesnt take much).
>
> What's he doing *while* watching tv? If he's "just watching" then
it
> could be that he needs a way to be more physical. For the longest
> time we had a rotation of "large motor toys" for Mo to play with
> while watching tv - a sit-n-spin, a big ball with a handle (you sit
> on it and bounce), a skateboard - and the living room chairs were
> braced against the walls so she could jump on them.
>
> .
>
> Another thought is food, which I see has already been mentioned,
but
> I'll say it again for emphasis - make sure he's getting snacks,
> especially protein!
>
> >
> ---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
>

Shannon

I have a friend who is working on her Doctorate thesis which discusses the
theory that our generation is no desensitized as much as emotionally
repressed. That we were only ever allowed express happy emotions which has
caused the spring of rage (aka road rage) because the only emotion strong
enough to survive is anger but that we were never taught how to express
emotions negative or positive in a healthy way. My children are very
emotional and it shows in their face and actions. I always tell them they
are allowed to express any emotion but are not allowed to hurt others or
themselves. If they feel the need to destroy something we will find
something to for them to destroy and safe place to do it.



Little by little I have reclaimed my emotions by focusing in on an emotion
and giving myself a few moments to feel it.



Shannon



_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jamie Minnis
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New here and need help with aggressive 4
year old.



In my previous post, it may have seemed like I implied to him that the TV
show was to blame. That was definitely not the case. My son is a
wonderfully sensitive child who truly FEELS the emotions of the characters
on TV. He worries about every injustice and physical hurt that happens on
the screen, even if they are supposed to be funny. These worries continue
throughout the rest of the day. He may lash out at his brother and then
start crying about something that he was sad on the show. In addition to
also discussing how TV makes us feel at times, I have learned that truly
being there for him and watching the shows with him has helped me to not
only understand what is "causing" his sadness and frustration, but also
begin to point out to him how the characters solve their problems. This has
helped him begin to think of new ways to solve any problems he has with his
brother. I, personally, think that TV has been a true blessing for my
relationship with my wonderful "explosive" child.

Oh! Being present with him has also shown me how desensitized to others
feelings I have become. (Why doesn't a cartoon character's sadness effect
me like it used to?) Anyway, that is another tangent.

Jamie

----- Original Message ----
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@mac. <mailto:pamsoroosh%40mac.com> com>
To: unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 12:47:27 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] New here and need help with aggressive 4
year old.

> I have
> tried reasoning with him. He knows it is unacceptable and immediately
> starts crying after he does it. I have tried telling him to hit a
> pillow, take deep breathes, etc. He just cant think before he lashes
> out.

Seems like you're focused on stopping his behavior, but I want to know
what he is so angry about.

There are other ways to help him not lash out so much when something
"sets him off" - again, though, this description is disrespectful and
disempowering. You completely discounted his actual feelings like
they are of no importance at all. Some little things (it doesn't take
much, you said) really really bother him to the point that he gets so
frustrated and angry that he hits, kicks, spits. Can you talk about
what those little irritants are?

>
>
> Of course, my traditional parenting brain is telling me to limit the
> screen time again and treat it like an allergy or sensitivity until
> he grows out of this stage.

Conventional parents don't take their children's inner emotions,
feelings, thoughts, personality characteristics, very seriously.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]