Faith Void

I am totally freaking out right now. My dd11 just told me she wants to go to
school this fall. I feel like such a failure. I have failed to provide her
with her needs. Now our whole family has to pay the price of her school
schedule. I am of course going to put her in school since she has told me
that she has been thinking about this and wanting to do this a long time. In
fact she has mentioned it a few times. I am so afraid. We have had 3 huge
transitions in our family this year (marriage, birth and buying a house!) so
things are upside down in many respects. I can see she just wants to get
away from all the stress our our family life (not necessarily all bad but
stress none the less). I don't think she gets that you can't run from it. We
are in the process of working through things and settling in. The baby is
almost a toddler (any day) so the infancy stage and its dependency is near
over. I have been with her step father since she was 5, so he is really her
father for all intents (hers is barely in the picture). They have as decent
a relationship as she will allow. She has really pulled away from our family
a lot lately. And her reality with us is so far from real, it is
frustrating. She thinks that she'll have more freedom at school because even
though she has freedom at home she doesn't acknowledge it. It's weird. She
acts like and treats us like we are mainstream TV show family. Even though
we use consensus and make decisions as a household. She tries to stay away
from our house alot lately, I am not sure if that is just developmental but
everyone on here says how close and loving their relationship with their
preteen/teens are. I must be doing something wrong.
I know I did when she told me that she wanted to go to school. I lost it and
just started crying and yelling. I took it really personal.
I can't really think of a question to write. I just am really confused and
feeling like a failure. I am also scared at how this will affect our family.
we had planned on going to LnL and the waterpark gathering but now we wont
be able to. My ds will be really sad. We also use to do a lot during the
school day.
Her reasons:
She wants to play on a school sports team~ football and basketball
She feel s left out when her friends are at school.
She thinks it sounds fun. (disney shows)

I don't know. I am so shocked and sad right now. I can't figure out how to
be supportive and loving. I mean I don't want to support this even though I
*should". I need a good kick from ya'll please help me!
Faith


--
www.bearthmama.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robin Bentley

Faith, here's an article by Sandra Dodd about this, to start with.
Read the comments, too. It might help you take a deep breath, even
though it feels like the rug's been pulled out from under you....

http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

Robin B.


On Jul 5, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Faith Void wrote:

> I am totally freaking out right now. My dd11 just told me she wants
> to go to
> school this fall. I feel like such a failure. I have failed to
> provide her
> with her needs. Now our whole family has to pay the price of her
> school
> schedule. I am of course going to put her in school since she has
> told me
> that she has been thinking about this and wanting to do this a long
> time. In
> fact she has mentioned it a few times. I am so afraid. We have had 3
> huge
> transitions in our family this year (marriage, birth and buying a
> house!) so
> things are upside down in many respects. I can see she just wants to
> get
> away from all the stress our our family life (not necessarily all
> bad but
> stress none the less). I don't think she gets that you can't run
> from it. We
> are in the process of working through things and settling in. The
> baby is
> almost a toddler (any day) so the infancy stage and its dependency
> is near
> over. I have been with her step father since she was 5, so he is
> really her
> father for all intents (hers is barely in the picture). They have as
> decent
> a relationship as she will allow. She has really pulled away from
> our family
> a lot lately. And her reality with us is so far from real, it is
> frustrating. She thinks that she'll have more freedom at school
> because even
> though she has freedom at home she doesn't acknowledge it. It's
> weird. She
> acts like and treats us like we are mainstream TV show family. Even
> though
> we use consensus and make decisions as a household. She tries to
> stay away
> from our house alot lately, I am not sure if that is just
> developmental but
> everyone on here says how close and loving their relationship with
> their
> preteen/teens are. I must be doing something wrong.
> I know I did when she told me that she wanted to go to school. I
> lost it and
> just started crying and yelling. I took it really personal.
> I can't really think of a question to write. I just am really
> confused and
> feeling like a failure. I am also scared at how this will affect our
> family.
> we had planned on going to LnL and the waterpark gathering but now
> we wont
> be able to. My ds will be really sad. We also use to do a lot during
> the
> school day.
> Her reasons:
> She wants to play on a school sports team~ football and basketball
> She feel s left out when her friends are at school.
> She thinks it sounds fun. (disney shows)
>
> I don't know. I am so shocked and sad right now. I can't figure out
> how to
> be supportive and loving. I mean I don't want to support this even
> though I
> *should". I need a good kick from ya'll please help me!
> Faith
>
>
> --
> www.bearthmama.com
>

Ren Allen

~~
I don't know. I am so shocked and sad right now. I can't figure out
how to be supportive and loving. I mean I don't want to support this
even though I *should". I need a good kick from ya'll please help me!~~

Well...if she gets crying and yelling when she tells you about a
desire in her heart that's pretty good reasons to want to get away. No
matter what the desire is, it's HERS. Let her own it and don't take it
so personal.

If the family life is so stressed, then it isn't a great unschooling
environment. But whether that's her reasoning or simply a strong
desire to find out what school is all about, it's HER learning path
and she needs her family to embrace what is in her heart. How will she
feel about changing her mind if she finds school doesn't meet her
needs? *I* sure wouldn't tell a parent that was so emotional and bent
on certain outcomes. She will only hide more of her feelings if she
can't trust the adults in her life to be calm, rational beings when
she talks to them.

She's presenting you with a desire. Tread gently.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

hbmccarty

Hi Faith-

I have been there. When my older son first told me he was interested in
attending school(at age 11)-I reacted similarly at first- I felt angry
and fearful and felt as if he were rejecting what I had to offer. I
found that in order to allow him to become clear and make the right
choice for him I had to totally let go of ALL of that and be able to
really listen to what he felt and needed at the time. It wasn't about
ME- it was about him. My daughter is now 11 and is going through
something similar.

It sounds like you have a lot going on- perhaps it has become difficult
to meet her needs. Kids needs change too and it seemed to me at this age
that my kids were/are really looking for something new and challenging-
this is when my son started playing the bass(he now calls himself a
musician(I agree!), plays for hours each day, plays for several groups,
I drive him around tons and we have paid for many lessons, made many
calls, pursued many options, and purchased a lot of equipment- just as
an example). We also got involved in a learning center which does meet
his social needs. Maybe if you really can't meet her needs, then school
will be a good solution.

What really hit me is that kid's needs don't lessen as they approach the
teen years, they just change. Once I accepted this, life became more
joyful again. I feel as close to my son now as I ever did and for a
while there(11-12) things were pretty tense. When a parent can make a
shift in thinking the whole relationship can change.

The Parent/Teen Breakthrough is an excellent book that you might want to
take a look at.

Heather

Faith Void wrote:
>
> I am totally freaking out right now. My dd11 just told me she wants to
> go to school this fall. I feel like such a failure. I have failed to
> provide her
> with her needs.
>

Emilie Rugard

I identify with your post even though I am, truthfully, not in your
position. I see myself in your desperation and perfectionism. I want
you to see that it is just that, - *your* desperation, *your*
perfectionism. Your daughter is just curious and wants to try
something new. She is unschooling perfectly. She should be curious
and want to try something new.

I feel the same way when my 4 year old muses about school. And boy,
did I feel that way yesterday when my 2 year old called me a mean
mama. None of my three age seven, four or two has ever said anything
like that to me. And honestly, I was heartbroken (for a minute:) )

I just had nursed her most of the night, as I do every night and
have for at least one, and often two of my children for the last
seven years. I told her I needed a break to go pee and that she
needed her pooey diaper changed anyway. She was enraged. "mean mama!
mean mama! " she said as she hit me. I was flabbergasted and
momentarily heartbroken. I was furious with the older girls for
teaching her this phrase, which they had never directed at me and was
only used in a game. I am doing everything for them, breastfeeding
on demand, child led weaning, unschooling, cosleeping, consenual
parenting, non-violent communication, etc,. And still my baby thinks
I am a mean mama.

Of course, I was over it in a flash. But this is where my mind goes,
to this contract that I have in my head that if I do this or them,
they should do -blank- for me. Be it not want to go to school, not
call me a mean mama, not become a religious fundamentalist, etc,.

But my children, and your children did not sign this contract. They
are just living their lives, being curious and wanting to try new things.

You haven't screwed up because she wants to do this. You did screw up
when you freaked out. But kids seem to accept that their parents
momentarily lose their minds from time to time. At least mine do, anyway.

Calm down. You'll get another chance to talk to her about it and next
time you'll do better.

It's her life. She just wants to live it. School sounds pretty
exciting until you actually have to go there every day. Maybe it
won't stick. Maybe it will.

True autonomy in our children is beautiful. Let yourself see the
beauty in her decision. She is not too afraid of school to want to
try this. And she is not too afraid of you to tell you.

Your cup looks half full to me.

Emilie

Robin

Hi,

I'm new to unschooling and to this list. Reading about unschooling on
Sandra Dodd's site and this and other lists, I'm growing by leaps and
bounds. Just trying to articulate some of the challenges I perceive in
my family, I realize things about myself and my parenting style that
helps me change. My mother was very uptight and controlling and I am
more that way than I want to be! The idea of "anything goes" excites and
challenges me. I want to learn how to be a good parent without
"micromanaging" my kids' every move, but I have some questions about how
this might work.

My basic situation is this:
My partner has sole legal and physical custody one of her daughter's
children, due to mental illness. The daughter has visitation rights. The
mother and one of her sisters got involved with brothers, who happened
to be black. They each had three kids who are all very close (if you put
all 6 of them in a line you can't tell the siblings from the cousins).
Both women (now 29 and 30) continue to be involved with black men and
the aunt says she is "black on the inside", but their understanding of
black culuture seems to me to be really mostly from the outside:
media-derived definitions based on rap, hip hop, celebrities, etc. The
dads are out of the picture, although the aunt has subsequently married
a different black man.

My concern was that the mom, aunts and cousins undermine my attempts to
give the three I'm raising more richness in their lives. They go beyond
unsupportive and into obstructive. For example, we've been studying the
Middle Ages and went to a Renaissance Faire a few months ago. Before we
went the kids were reluctant because they heard their aunts/cousins say
'only nerds go to Ren Faires.' Any thoughts about what to do when
extended family/social group undermines unschooling values?

If this is true: "Because we are social creatures, we do not require
coercion (or threats) in order to want to fit in, and so to undertake
learning to fit in," (from: Un/Homeschooling © Sara McGrath
http://www.suite101.com/suiteu/ ??? un/homeschooling???) then what can
we do when the family social group is anti-learning? My kids seem to be
wanting to fit in with a media-derived idea of hip hop culture that
values only bling, babes and bustin' heads. Their mom, aunts and cousins
encourage this and deride anything that challenges it or goes beyond
those values (bling, babes or bustin' heads). None of the mom/aunts have
done much with their lives beyond TV/video games/trying to look "hot"
themselves. I would like at least the 3 kids I'm helping to raise to
have the opportunity to have richer, fuller lives.

Any thoughts would be welcome!

thanks,
Robin

Marie

We're in the same boat. Stressful home and 11 year old looking for a
relief or simply a change. I am more worried about getting him up to
speed than actually letting him go to school.

You might want to pick up a copy of 'Your Ten to Fourteen Year Old' by
Louise Bates Ames. This series starts at age one and is an incredible
eye opener to child development and all that you can expect to see in
the different ages. I just got to figure out what's going on with my
11 year old and I am glad I did. I am now prepared for what might be a
difficult year ahead. Lot's going on for this not-so-easy age.

Faith Void

Thank you to everyone who wrote. Just writing that post was therapeutic. It
helped me get my thoughts together. I took a long deep breath afterwards. I
sat still and quiet until my mind stopped reeling. It took a while. Then I
felt, truly felt like I was back on her side and I didn't feel like a
failure but her mama again. I went to her and hugged her. I told her I was
still on her side, that I do and would support whatever choice she made. I
asked if she wanted to talk to me and that I would listen without criticism.
She did. we talked about her needs and all the stuff we are going through as
a family. We talked about how her needs would fit in with going to school
and other options. We talked (I mostly listened) about where she was in her
head right now and what she needed from me and in general.
I think you were all right and I knew this in my heart, what she really
needed was for me to say (and mean) that I was 100% behind her. To lay all
my bullshit down and just be there for her. I don't think she really wanted
to go to school, she needed attention. We talked about how to met her needs.
I also let her know that I was still there for her. I agreed with her that I
haven't been giving her enough for a couple months (since we moved). I had
perceived that she was happy with running about and playing with kids all
day then vegging at night. Apparently she wants to be around me more
(yeah!). I am glad that she still feels like she can talk to me even though
I did fuck up (yelling and crying).
I listened to this audio I found on Sandra Dodd's page the other day. What
really hit home for me was she talked about her sister complaining all the
time and little things. How everything was the last straw...I feel like that
is where I am right now. So I am working on unloading straw. I also talked
about this with my dd11. I wanted her to know that I am aware that I am on
edge and that I am trying to let go and be more present.
So we made a list of her needs and desires. We discussed ways to met them
regularly. It was good to write them down because I think she feels like I
took them really seriously (I am a list maker). We made several plans. She
decided that she wanted to do too many things that would conflict with a
school schedule but still wants to go just to try it with the option of
going full time if she likes it. She was also concerned about how much
freedom would be inhibited if she went to school. She gets to do what she
likes with her time now and didn't realize that teachers tell you what to do
(gotta love Disney) and when to do things. I let her know that if/when she
choose school we would unschool school. I am not sure if that is a good way
to word it but that we would become like other parents and rake away
privileges or control her or her experience. She seems really relieved. I
think she feel s freer to make a real decision now. There is still several
weeks left, she is very impulsive so there is no telling what she will
ultimately want. She is a free spirit and very confident and sure of herself
and very intelligent so I have let go that she will be hurt by her
experience if she goes. She asked a bunch of thoughtful questions and I
answered them with facts and left out my opinions unless she asked me and I
told her my school experiences without much drama.
Anyway, I know that I just want her to be happy and lead a full life, if
school is what she needs then I will help make that happen.

Ren, I see what you are saying. I wasn't being very approachable. That was
the biggest issue. I have been very on edge lately. I still think her home
experience is good. I don't think we have a bad unschooling house. There is
still freedom, love, respect and much joy. I am doing my personal best at
being a gentle, mindful parent. I know that I could improve and I am trying.
Writing about my thoughts and experiences are helping. Just unloading my
baggage on here with you guys meant so much. I didn't have to give it to my
dd, I could sort through it and throw stuff out before it got to her.

Thanks
Faith




On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Marie <cpc2@...> wrote:

> We're in the same boat. Stressful home and 11 year old looking for a
> relief or simply a change. I am more worried about getting him up to
> speed than actually letting him go to school.
>
> You might want to pick up a copy of 'Your Ten to Fourteen Year Old' by
> Louise Bates Ames. This series starts at age one and is an incredible
> eye opener to child development and all that you can expect to see in
> the different ages. I just got to figure out what's going on with my
> 11 year old and I am glad I did. I am now prepared for what might be a
> difficult year ahead. Lot's going on for this not-so-easy age.
>
>
>



--
www.bearthmama.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~I think you were all right and I knew this in my heart, what she
really needed was for me to say (and mean) that I was 100% behind her.
To lay all my bullshit down and just be there for her.~~

That's really cool.
I'm glad you could find the safe space you both needed. :)

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jul 5, 2008, at 12:41 PM, Robin wrote:

> My concern was that the mom, aunts and cousins undermine my
> attempts to
> give the three I'm raising more richness in their lives.

Turn it around. Imagine the moms wanting to introduce the kids to Ren
Faires and you wanting to enrich the kids lives with hip hop culture.

It's very similar to the new-to-unschooling question of what if the
kids want to watch cartoons and the parents want them to watch
educational shows? What if the kids want to play video games and the
parents want them to play outside?

The answer is: you embrace cartoons, you embrace video games. You run
new things through their lives that they might like and let them pick
it up if they want. You get to know them and find things that support
their immediate interests.

What I see is you trying to pull them away to do what you value. Why
does there need to be a choice? Rather than narrowing their lives to
the cultures you value, why not embrace all cultures, including hip hop?

> For example, we've been studying the
> Middle Ages and went to a Renaissance Faire a few months ago.

Introducing things you think they'll enjoy is an important aspect of
unschooling. But once we've introduced something, then the kids get
to be the directors. How much more stuff we give them is up to their
interests.

Some unschooled kids might enjoy "studying" some chunk of the world.
If it's an interest of theirs, they might enjoy someone presenting a
chunk the person thinks is really cool. But central to unschooling is
the kids' freedom to say "Done with that. Let's do something else."

That's a round about way of saying that if you picture unschooling as
the parents joyfully exposing the kids to important things the
parents think the kids will like and the kids joyfully following,
there will be snags when the parents are valuing the direction more
than the kids are (or more than the kids themselves).

Unschooling is about supporting the kids' interests. Part of the
support is directly feeding their interests. Part of the support is
also introducing things we think they'd enjoy. A central part of the
support is backing off and letting them decide how far and how deep
and what direction they want to go (even if it's a direction that
takes off away from what was introduced).

> My kids seem to be
> wanting to fit in with a media-derived idea of hip hop culture that
> values only bling, babes and bustin' heads.

And if they feel you pulling them away, it's just a fact of human
nature that they'll hold on tighter. And the harder you try to turn
them to what you value, the less they'll want to turn. The more you
insist what you value is more important than what they value, the
less they'll value what you want them to.

That last is vital. The easiest path to kids valuing what we value is
*not* to head there directly. The best place to begin is by valuing
the kids and supporting what they value. By supporting them, you
become someone who is worthy of their value and respect.

Think about it. If you've got an interest, who would you rather be
with: someone who says "Ew, ick, don't like that. Here's what's
really important," or someone who found delight in the fact that you
found something that delights you?

Let them be the guides through hip hop culture. Be open! Embrace it.
Park your comments at the door. Find out what they like about it. Do
way more listening than telling. If you feel like interjecting your
values, picture how jarring it would feel as you're sharing an
interest with your wife and she focused on her view and how wrong she
thought your view was. Picture how joyful it is to share with someone
who, even if they don't get it, is enjoying your enthusiasm.

(And, no, I'm not ignorant of hip hop. I know what you're seeing.
Just as parents look at Grand Theft Auto and see a culture and values
they reject, but not the fun it can be to safely play in a world
whose values you'd never want to embrace. Just as parents see what
Marilyn Manson appears to be embracing and not the power to reject
(or whatever the *kids* like, which might just be the music and not
even the lyrics.) Experience it through the kids' eyes.)

It will be the same with the kids' mothers. You can begin a tug of
war between you with the kids as a rope. But it can't be a tug of war
if you're not pulling back. The more you're on their side, the more
influence you have. Rather than trying to be the leader, walk by the
kids' side. Be their partners.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judy R

----- Original Message -----
From: Faith Void
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 3:26 PM
Subject: [SPAM?] Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: going to school


Just wanted tp add my 2 cents' worth about the going back to school thing - one of my 13 year old d's DID go back to school in Grade 8 this past January - I went through some of the same emotions, feeling rejected, etc., but ultimately supported her choice - she left after 3 days!

BUT, that's not the end of the story - now she and her twin sister both want to go to high school - partly this is their Dad's influence - this time I was better prepared and didn't freak out or anything - I did lay the footwork on him though :-)

Anyway, they are signed up for September - what I think though is that they have an *image* of what school wil be like, that is what they *want* it to be like - lots of kids to engage with, cool things to do; all of their friends are schooled kids; we have a very small pool of homeschooled/unschooled in our town - anyway, I think they think they're just going to get to hang out with these friends and do stuff. I do try to tell them what it's likely to be like without at the same time being super discouraging -

But of course the ultimate sad thing is that *isn't* what it should be - and they certainly aren't used to getting up at the crack of dawn to be at school by 8:15 am!

Anyway, just to let you kow that yours isn't the only one! I think it is a very human thing to want to try the other side - greener grass, etc. Judy R in Kingston ONRecent Activity
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeanette Crichton

<<<I let her know that if/when she
choose school we would unschool school. >>>>
I know that there are alot of negative things about school!  I have taught school and it's difficult to think of sending my own kids into that environment or creating that type of environment in my home.  But I do believe that there are a select few that fit perfectly into school and thrive in that kind of environment.  I have seen them as a student and as a teacher.
I'm sure I've said this before, but I LOVED school.   I never felt pressure from outside sources to be "successful" in school, it was all about the relationships and activities for me and the work and assignments just happened.  I was extremely social and there were lots of sports and activities that my school time was centered around.  I learned way more from all of the extra-curricular stuff that I did (and all of my family and outside experiences-working, etc.) then I did in my classes.  I really felt like my school was such a supportive community for me and I can't imagine anywhere that would have been better for me-at least that my family had access to.  I learned so much even from the few negative experiences that I had in school and I really feel like I made a positive difference in my schools and in many of the lives of the teachers and students.  Afterall, school was where I made many lifelong friendships (two that married into my
family), and I met my dh in highschool.  School was also where I participated in the following activities:  student council, competive and supportive cheerleading, basketball, track, softball, soccer, marching band, flag corp, flag football, symphony band and lots of committees.  I wish that there was an adult "school" that had all of these activities still : )
All of that being said:  continue unschooling your daughter!  I would just look at school as another learning experience that you are providing for her.  I still feel like I was fairly "unschooled" even though I went to school.  Trust your daughter that she needs to learn something about school and then she'll decide-it could be the best thing she ever did, the worst thing she ever did, or most likely just something she did and learned from.
I hope this helps you see another perspective on all that school CAN be.  The important thing is that you know your daughter, and you know how to help her make the best of her experience.  Be her partner and go into it with thoughts of possibilities- it's a new ADVENTURE- and who doesn't love that!  Try to understand your anti-school thoughts and fears as your daughter prepares to draw her own conclusions.
BTW:  Our 5 yo has been asking to go to school too (and not just ANY school-a very expensive Montessori school).  I have been sorting through all of the same emotions for about 3 months.  We've been trying to be sure that there isn't some other need that isn't being met, so we've been checking into all kinds of possibilities.  He is VERY social like me and enjoys being around older kids and adults, so I'm not sure how much school would meet his social needs.  We have yet to make a decision and we have only one month to figure out what we are going to do (and how we're going to get the money!). 
Jeanette




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], Robin <GaiaAlive@...>
wrote:
>My kids seem to be
> wanting to fit in with a media-derived idea of hip hop culture
that
> values only bling, babes and bustin' heads. Their mom, aunts and
cousins
> encourage this and deride anything that challenges it or goes
beyond
> those values (bling, babes or bustin' heads).

Hi, Robin, I'm Meredith, mom to "always" unschooled Mo and stepmom
to Ray, 14 who moved in with us about a year and a half ago.

Joyce's post was just fabulous and I wanted to add a personal "it
really works" story ;)

When Ray came to live with us he had been in the process of getting
expelled from school - he was very invested in being "the bad boy"
breaking rules because they were there, into skateboarding, online
role playing games involving a lot of fighting, listened mostly
to "death metal". It was sort of intimidating, to say the least,
since our family is pretty "crunchy" - folk music and organic food
and peace and love and carpentry and quilting. Seems like a terrible
fit, huh?

Rather than trying to get Ray to fit into our family, we expanded
our family to fit Ray. We played his games with him and learned what
he found interesting. We listened to his music - mostly my partner,
George, at first, since he knows older metal pretty well, but I've
been easing into it ;) I dyed Ray's hair jet black for him and
bought all the "junk" food and spray paint he wanted. I spent a lot
of time at the skatepark and told him he could modify his clothing
any way that didn't get him arrested.

Skip ahead to the now - he still likes all those things, and we've
learned to, too, but now he also goes to a local coffee house every
week with his dad and listens to folk and gospel and country music.
He's learning to play bass and drum and will try to play along if we
have guests over to jam (folk music, for the most part). He's
learing to make jewelry and use a scrollsaw and ride a unicycle and
twirl a staff... okay its a staff that's on Fire at both ends, but
he's not smashing heads with it, he's twirling it like a baton ;)
He's just changed his hair color to green, says that black is "too
boring". He's gone from hating all religion to having serious
discussions about Life the Universe and Everything. He's writing for
pleasure and desiging (tatoos).

Most of all, he's not "the bad boy" anymore. He's pleasant company
and considered trustworthy by friends. Friday night he was employed
to supervise a little girl sleepover while the parents celebrated
the 4th and didn't complain about listening to Hannah Montana once
(in front of the girls). He doesn't enjoy the company of most other
teens because "they're always angry and complaining about their
parents". He likes to be around people who are basically happy with
their lives because *he's* basically happy with his.

He's still himself, he's still passionate and sensitive and a
teenage boy! But becomming his ally has helped him be okay with
being passionate and sensitive in the midst of a world full of
messages that teenage boys shouldn't be those things.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Melissa Gray

Meredith,
Thanks for sharing about Ray. I've been on the list for a while and I
remember when Ray joined you guys, it's really nice to hear about how
the relationship (and Ray!) has evolved.

Melissa
Mom to Joshua, Breanna, Emily, Rachel, Samuel, Daniel and Avari
Wife to Zane

blog me at
http://startlinglives.blogspot.com/
http://startlinglives365.blogspot.com



On Jul 6, 2008, at 8:01 PM, Meredith wrote:

> --- In [email protected], Robin <GaiaAlive@...>
> wrote:
> >My kids seem to be
> > wanting to fit in with a media-derived idea of hip hop culture
> that
> > values only bling, babes and bustin' heads. Their mom, aunts and
> cousins
> > encourage this and deride anything that challenges it or goes
> beyond
> > those values (bling, babes or bustin' heads).
>
> Hi, Robin, I'm Meredith, mom to "always" unschooled Mo and stepmom
> to Ray, 14 who moved in with us about a year and a half ago.
>
> Joyce's post was just fabulous and I wanted to add a personal "it
> really works" story ;)
>
> When Ray came to live with us he had been in the process of getting
> expelled from school - he was very invested in being "the bad boy"
> breaking rules because they were there, into skateboarding, online
> role playing games involving a lot of fighting, listened mostly
> to "death metal". It was sort of intimidating, to say the least,
> since our family is pretty "crunchy" - folk music and organic food
> and peace and love and carpentry and quilting. Seems like a terrible
> fit, huh?
>
> Rather than trying to get Ray to fit into our family, we expanded
> our family to fit Ray. We played his games with him and learned what
> he found interesting. We listened to his music - mostly my partner,
> George, at first, since he knows older metal pretty well, but I've
> been easing into it ;) I dyed Ray's hair jet black for him and
> bought all the "junk" food and spray paint he wanted. I spent a lot
> of time at the skatepark and told him he could modify his clothing
> any way that didn't get him arrested.
>
> Skip ahead to the now - he still likes all those things, and we've
> learned to, too, but now he also goes to a local coffee house every
> week with his dad and listens to folk and gospel and country music.
> He's learning to play bass and drum and will try to play along if we
> have guests over to jam (folk music, for the most part). He's
> learing to make jewelry and use a scrollsaw and ride a unicycle and
> twirl a staff... okay its a staff that's on Fire at both ends, but
> he's not smashing heads with it, he's twirling it like a baton ;)
> He's just changed his hair color to green, says that black is "too
> boring". He's gone from hating all religion to having serious
> discussions about Life the Universe and Everything. He's writing for
> pleasure and desiging (tatoos).
>
> Most of all, he's not "the bad boy" anymore. He's pleasant company
> and considered trustworthy by friends. Friday night he was employed
> to supervise a little girl sleepover while the parents celebrated
> the 4th and didn't complain about listening to Hannah Montana once
> (in front of the girls). He doesn't enjoy the company of most other
> teens because "they're always angry and complaining about their
> parents". He likes to be around people who are basically happy with
> their lives because *he's* basically happy with his.
>
> He's still himself, he's still passionate and sensitive and a
> teenage boy! But becomming his ally has helped him be okay with
> being passionate and sensitive in the midst of a world full of
> messages that teenage boys shouldn't be those things.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy

Hi.
The first thing I'd do is take a deep breath and CALM DOWN.
Unschooling is all about child-led learning, right? Well, that's
what she's doing - she wants to experience something NEW. Let's face
it - most likely, when she finds out what school is really like
(after that initial Disney like euphoria is over), she's going to
want out anyway. Just keep in mind, it's all about HER journey.
Just my two cents.

-Nancy


--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> I am totally freaking out right now. My dd11 just told me she wants
to go to
> school this fall. I feel like such a failure. I have failed to
provide her
> with her needs. Now our whole family has to pay the price of her
school
> schedule. I am of course going to put her in school since she has
told me
> that she has been thinking about this and wanting to do this a long
time. In
> fact she has mentioned it a few times. I am so afraid. We have had
3 huge
> transitions in our family this year (marriage, birth and buying a
house!) so
> things are upside down in many respects. I can see she just wants
to get
> away from all the stress our our family life (not necessarily all
bad but
> stress none the less). I don't think she gets that you can't run
from it. We
> are in the process of working through things and settling in. The
baby is
> almost a toddler (any day) so the infancy stage and its dependency
is near
> over. I have been with her step father since she was 5, so he is
really her
> father for all intents (hers is barely in the picture). They have
as decent
> a relationship as she will allow. She has really pulled away from
our family
> a lot lately. And her reality with us is so far from real, it is
> frustrating. She thinks that she'll have more freedom at school
because even
> though she has freedom at home she doesn't acknowledge it. It's
weird. She
> acts like and treats us like we are mainstream TV show family. Even
though
> we use consensus and make decisions as a household. She tries to
stay away
> from our house alot lately, I am not sure if that is just
developmental but
> everyone on here says how close and loving their relationship with
their
> preteen/teens are. I must be doing something wrong.
> I know I did when she told me that she wanted to go to school. I
lost it and
> just started crying and yelling. I took it really personal.
> I can't really think of a question to write. I just am really
confused and
> feeling like a failure. I am also scared at how this will affect
our family.
> we had planned on going to LnL and the waterpark gathering but now
we wont
> be able to. My ds will be really sad. We also use to do a lot
during the
> school day.
> Her reasons:
> She wants to play on a school sports team~ football and basketball
> She feel s left out when her friends are at school.
> She thinks it sounds fun. (disney shows)
>
> I don't know. I am so shocked and sad right now. I can't figure out
how to
> be supportive and loving. I mean I don't want to support this even
though I
> *should". I need a good kick from ya'll please help me!
> Faith
>
>
> --
> www.bearthmama.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Robin

Thank you so much for this post!

It makes sense to me that approaching someone with authenticity,
presence and compassion encourages the best in others. It also adds
strength to thoughts I'd been having about wanting a community that
shares my values to share with the kids. Having a variety of families
where I am connected to the other adults with shared interests and
values would open things up for the kids in so many ways. Where we live
right now, the people I am closest to and who accept us the most are all
LDS (and we're lesbians!). They are great and love the kids, but there
is a barrier there because their religion just does not move me. It's
not where I am spiritually.

Your folk music sessions sound wonderful!

Thanks,
Robin

Meredith wrote:
> --- In [email protected], Robin <GaiaAlive@...>
> wrote:
>> My kids seem to be
>> wanting to fit in with a media-derived idea of hip hop culture
> that
>> values only bling, babes and bustin' heads. Their mom, aunts and
> cousins
>> encourage this and deride anything that challenges it or goes
> beyond
>> those values (bling, babes or bustin' heads).
>
> Hi, Robin, I'm Meredith, mom to "always" unschooled Mo and stepmom
> to Ray, 14 who moved in with us about a year and a half ago.
>
> Joyce's post was just fabulous and I wanted to add a personal "it
> really works" story ;)
>
> When Ray came to live with us he had been in the process of getting
> expelled from school - he was very invested in being "the bad boy"
> breaking rules because they were there, into skateboarding, online
> role playing games involving a lot of fighting, listened mostly
> to "death metal". It was sort of intimidating, to say the least,
> since our family is pretty "crunchy" - folk music and organic food
> and peace and love and carpentry and quilting. Seems like a terrible
> fit, huh?
>
> Rather than trying to get Ray to fit into our family, we expanded
> our family to fit Ray. We played his games with him and learned what
> he found interesting. We listened to his music - mostly my partner,
> George, at first, since he knows older metal pretty well, but I've
> been easing into it ;) I dyed Ray's hair jet black for him and
> bought all the "junk" food and spray paint he wanted. I spent a lot
> of time at the skatepark and told him he could modify his clothing
> any way that didn't get him arrested.
>
> Skip ahead to the now - he still likes all those things, and we've
> learned to, too, but now he also goes to a local coffee house every
> week with his dad and listens to folk and gospel and country music.
> He's learning to play bass and drum and will try to play along if we
> have guests over to jam (folk music, for the most part). He's
> learing to make jewelry and use a scrollsaw and ride a unicycle and
> twirl a staff... okay its a staff that's on Fire at both ends, but
> he's not smashing heads with it, he's twirling it like a baton ;)
> He's just changed his hair color to green, says that black is "too
> boring". He's gone from hating all religion to having serious
> discussions about Life the Universe and Everything. He's writing for
> pleasure and desiging (tatoos).
>
> Most of all, he's not "the bad boy" anymore. He's pleasant company
> and considered trustworthy by friends. Friday night he was employed
> to supervise a little girl sleepover while the parents celebrated
> the 4th and didn't complain about listening to Hannah Montana once
> (in front of the girls). He doesn't enjoy the company of most other
> teens because "they're always angry and complaining about their
> parents". He likes to be around people who are basically happy with
> their lives because *he's* basically happy with his.
>
> He's still himself, he's still passionate and sensitive and a
> teenage boy! But becomming his ally has helped him be okay with
> being passionate and sensitive in the midst of a world full of
> messages that teenage boys shouldn't be those things.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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>
>
>
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