Saying "No" to buying the 50th thing for a 4.5 yo.
Marla B.
I've tried to reduce my shopping excursions with my 4.5 yo. as she
wants everything. Even when I buy her one or two small things, she
isn't satisfied. We talk about our budget and how we don't have
enough money for everything (which doesn't work, although she
sometimes puts something back if I say it is too expensive), we talk
about putting it on her wish list (which she will agree to after the
4th toy - ugh!), we talk about saving up her allowance to buy it in
the future, we discuss her feelings and why she might enjoy something
and maybe it is similar to something she already has, and we talk
about buying it the next time we come to that store.
As I said, my first defense is just not to bring her to a store, but I
don't have many people who can watch her for me and my dh works long
hours. He helps by usually doing the grocery shopping. But today, we
needed to pick up something for father's day and I bought her several
things at the pet store (with resentment from me towards the end).
When we arrived at the store for the father's day gift, she said she
just wanted to get one thing. I finally ended picking her up and
carrying her out of the store (which I rarely do, because it's not
respecting her autonomy), but I'd already spent too much at the pet
store and my resentment was huge.
I know she is only 4.5 yo. and can't grasp many of the concepts I
discuss with her. I just keep discussing them because I know someday
she will get them. Her 9 yo. sister is much better now at limiting
her purchases. However, when she was 4 yo., it was similar, so I know
the 4.5 yo. will eventually get it.
I just don't know what more I can do when I don't have a choice of
bringing her along on a shopping trip.
Thanks!
Marla
wants everything. Even when I buy her one or two small things, she
isn't satisfied. We talk about our budget and how we don't have
enough money for everything (which doesn't work, although she
sometimes puts something back if I say it is too expensive), we talk
about putting it on her wish list (which she will agree to after the
4th toy - ugh!), we talk about saving up her allowance to buy it in
the future, we discuss her feelings and why she might enjoy something
and maybe it is similar to something she already has, and we talk
about buying it the next time we come to that store.
As I said, my first defense is just not to bring her to a store, but I
don't have many people who can watch her for me and my dh works long
hours. He helps by usually doing the grocery shopping. But today, we
needed to pick up something for father's day and I bought her several
things at the pet store (with resentment from me towards the end).
When we arrived at the store for the father's day gift, she said she
just wanted to get one thing. I finally ended picking her up and
carrying her out of the store (which I rarely do, because it's not
respecting her autonomy), but I'd already spent too much at the pet
store and my resentment was huge.
I know she is only 4.5 yo. and can't grasp many of the concepts I
discuss with her. I just keep discussing them because I know someday
she will get them. Her 9 yo. sister is much better now at limiting
her purchases. However, when she was 4 yo., it was similar, so I know
the 4.5 yo. will eventually get it.
I just don't know what more I can do when I don't have a choice of
bringing her along on a shopping trip.
Thanks!
Marla
marji
Hey, Marla,
I have a couple of thoughts. The first one is that your wee one is
who she is, and she is totally being herself. Believe it or not,
resentment is a choice you make, even though it's by default. When
you recognize that you're resenting her for expressing her self, you
could, rather than allow your default choice of how to feel to kick
in, make the conscious choice to feel differently. I know it sounds
easier said than done, but you really can be in control of your
thoughts and feelings simply by recognizing it and intending
it. Takes some practice, it's true, but it definitely can be
done. Doing this will give actually her more space ~ believe it or
not ~ to have different responses to the whole situation. Don't ask
me how I know this. ;-)
You might want to rethink how much talking and explaining you do
around this issue. She's really not hearing you; she really
can't. She wants what she wants and it's asking too much of her to
defer to incomprehensible concepts. Empathy is much better received
than explanations, and it may help her shift more easily if she knows
she's being heard.
You also might consider re-reading your post and noticing some of the
words in it that you're using that are ~ either consciously or
unconsciously ~ setting you up for conflict. The first one that
jumped out at me was "...my first defense..." ;-) Perhaps you could
shift your perspective on this.
You absolutely cannot change or control your daughter's desires and
impulses. All you *can* change and control is how you respond to her
and her needs. If you can make the shift to respond with empathy and
see yourself as being on the same side, the same team, as she is on
(thus not needing any "defenses"), you're more likely to enjoy this
aspect of her, and she *may* be more likely to be a bit more relaxed
about such things, especially since you will have eliminated some of
the resistance she will have.
I hope this is helpful, Marla!!
Sending you love,
Marji
At 20:51 6/13/2008, you wrote:
<http://joyfullyparenting.com/>JoyFully Parenting & Life Coaching
<http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ Music for the Planet
<http://myspace.com/marjizintz>Marji's Myspace Page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have a couple of thoughts. The first one is that your wee one is
who she is, and she is totally being herself. Believe it or not,
resentment is a choice you make, even though it's by default. When
you recognize that you're resenting her for expressing her self, you
could, rather than allow your default choice of how to feel to kick
in, make the conscious choice to feel differently. I know it sounds
easier said than done, but you really can be in control of your
thoughts and feelings simply by recognizing it and intending
it. Takes some practice, it's true, but it definitely can be
done. Doing this will give actually her more space ~ believe it or
not ~ to have different responses to the whole situation. Don't ask
me how I know this. ;-)
You might want to rethink how much talking and explaining you do
around this issue. She's really not hearing you; she really
can't. She wants what she wants and it's asking too much of her to
defer to incomprehensible concepts. Empathy is much better received
than explanations, and it may help her shift more easily if she knows
she's being heard.
You also might consider re-reading your post and noticing some of the
words in it that you're using that are ~ either consciously or
unconsciously ~ setting you up for conflict. The first one that
jumped out at me was "...my first defense..." ;-) Perhaps you could
shift your perspective on this.
You absolutely cannot change or control your daughter's desires and
impulses. All you *can* change and control is how you respond to her
and her needs. If you can make the shift to respond with empathy and
see yourself as being on the same side, the same team, as she is on
(thus not needing any "defenses"), you're more likely to enjoy this
aspect of her, and she *may* be more likely to be a bit more relaxed
about such things, especially since you will have eliminated some of
the resistance she will have.
I hope this is helpful, Marla!!
Sending you love,
Marji
At 20:51 6/13/2008, you wrote:
>I just don't know what more I can do when I don't have a choice of~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>bringing her along on a shopping trip.
<http://joyfullyparenting.com/>JoyFully Parenting & Life Coaching
<http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ Music for the Planet
<http://myspace.com/marjizintz>Marji's Myspace Page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wisdomalways5
--- In [email protected], "Marla B." <marla@...> wrote:
dollar amount she can spend- say $5 or whatever it is for you- then
stick to your list and have her see that you do that because she may be
seeing that YOU are getting to get lots of things you want so why
should she not do the same-
Julie
>you could try having her write the list with you and talk about the
> I've tried to reduce my shopping excursions with my 4.5 yo. as she
> wants everything. Even when I buy her one or two small things, she
> isn't satisfied. We talk about our budget and how we don't have
> enough money for everything (which doesn't work, although she
> sometimes puts something back if I say it is too expensive), we talk
> about putting it on her wish list (which she will agree to after the
> 4th toy - ugh!),
dollar amount she can spend- say $5 or whatever it is for you- then
stick to your list and have her see that you do that because she may be
seeing that YOU are getting to get lots of things you want so why
should she not do the same-
Julie
wisdomalways5
we also do "trades" in the store so if they have picked one or two
things and keep going I will say "do you want to trade that for
this" and sometimes they do and sometimes they do not- my now 5 yr
old will ask if one things is the same cost as the other thing she
wants- we also do a lot of next times- so she chooses a thing she
wants now against something she can get next time- or we will put
stuff in as a "think about it" and sometimes I say ok do you want
this or that and she will choose
Julie
things and keep going I will say "do you want to trade that for
this" and sometimes they do and sometimes they do not- my now 5 yr
old will ask if one things is the same cost as the other thing she
wants- we also do a lot of next times- so she chooses a thing she
wants now against something she can get next time- or we will put
stuff in as a "think about it" and sometimes I say ok do you want
this or that and she will choose
Julie
--- In [email protected], marji <marji@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, Marla,
>
> I have a couple of thoughts. The first one is that your wee one
is
> who she is, and she is totally being herself. Believe it or not,
> resentment is a choice you make, even though it's by default.
When
> you recognize that you're resenting her for expressing her self,
you
> could, rather than allow your default choice of how to feel to
kick
> in, make the conscious choice to feel differently. I know it
sounds
> easier said than done, but you really can be in control of your
> thoughts and feelings simply by recognizing it and intending
> it. Takes some practice, it's true, but it definitely can be
> done. Doing this will give actually her more space ~ believe it
or
> not ~ to have different responses to the whole situation. Don't
ask
> me how I know this. ;-)
>
> You might want to rethink how much talking and explaining you do
> around this issue. She's really not hearing you; she really
> can't. She wants what she wants and it's asking too much of her
to
> defer to incomprehensible concepts. Empathy is much better
received
> than explanations, and it may help her shift more easily if she
knows
> she's being heard.
>
> You also might consider re-reading your post and noticing some of
the
> words in it that you're using that are ~ either consciously or
> unconsciously ~ setting you up for conflict. The first one that
> jumped out at me was "...my first defense..." ;-) Perhaps you
could
> shift your perspective on this.
>
> You absolutely cannot change or control your daughter's desires
and
> impulses. All you *can* change and control is how you respond to
her
> and her needs. If you can make the shift to respond with empathy
and
> see yourself as being on the same side, the same team, as she is
on
> (thus not needing any "defenses"), you're more likely to enjoy
this
> aspect of her, and she *may* be more likely to be a bit more
relaxed
> about such things, especially since you will have eliminated some
of
> the resistance she will have.
>
> I hope this is helpful, Marla!!
>
> Sending you love,
>
> Marji
>
>
> At 20:51 6/13/2008, you wrote:
> >I just don't know what more I can do when I don't have a choice of
> >bringing her along on a shopping trip.
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> <http://joyfullyparenting.com/>JoyFully Parenting & Life Coaching
> <http://gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf ~ Music for the Planet
> <http://myspace.com/marjizintz>Marji's Myspace Page
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 13, 2008, at 8:51 PM, Marla B. wrote:
see her actions as you would similar actions from an adult. She isn't
being greedy. She sees a world full of wonders and she wants to
bring them home but she needs to go through you. To her it feels
random when she gets to and when she doesn't. She can see you have
loads of money and when you go to the store you get to bring home
whatever you want (or so it looks from her point of view.)
You might try is giving her what you can afford and saying she can
spend it anyway she wants.
Now, you can do that two ways: You can treat it as a limit with the
attitude of "That's all you get and when it's gone, that's it." And
she'll feel deprived and needful of more because by your attitude you
expect that she'll want to spend way more and you're just not going
to give it to her.
Or you can treat it as a wonderful gift that holds great
possibilities. The challenge is to find a way to bring something or
several somethings home that fits the amount she has.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I've tried to reduce my shopping excursions with my 4.5 yo. as sheIt will help you greatly to respond to her with respect if you don't
> wants everything. Even when I buy her one or two small things, she
> isn't satisfied.
see her actions as you would similar actions from an adult. She isn't
being greedy. She sees a world full of wonders and she wants to
bring them home but she needs to go through you. To her it feels
random when she gets to and when she doesn't. She can see you have
loads of money and when you go to the store you get to bring home
whatever you want (or so it looks from her point of view.)
You might try is giving her what you can afford and saying she can
spend it anyway she wants.
Now, you can do that two ways: You can treat it as a limit with the
attitude of "That's all you get and when it's gone, that's it." And
she'll feel deprived and needful of more because by your attitude you
expect that she'll want to spend way more and you're just not going
to give it to her.
Or you can treat it as a wonderful gift that holds great
possibilities. The challenge is to find a way to bring something or
several somethings home that fits the amount she has.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nance Confer
It's not unusual now that many families have to change their buying habits. Maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe when a day comes along that has been designated as a "buy something for someone" day, like Father's Day, we can think about whether that's really something we want to participate in.
When there is lots of money, we mindlessly pick up the next trinket for the next designated day. When there is less money, maybe we start to think of other things Dad might like that don't cost much or anything. Then, maybe, we can include this sort of thinking in all our shopping decisions. Does Big Sister really need every new video game that comes out? Does Mom need that new bathing suit? Really?
To me, it goes hand in hand with questioning a lot of things. Do we really all have to sit around and watch each other eat dinner? Is there one right bed time? Why can't we have birthday cake for breakfast? Maybe that's what Dad would prefer. :)
Doing things, like shopping, because someone else put them on the calendar, should be questioned. Maybe we decide that we DO want to buy something for someone. But we have the option not to. And all the while we are modelling our new decision-making and shopping skills for Younger Sister.
Nance
Saying "No" to buying the 50th thing for a 4.5 yo.
Posted by: "Marla B." marla@... hilltowner4
Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:51 pm (PDT)
I've tried to reduce my shopping excursions with my 4.5 yo. as she
wants everything. Even when I buy her one or two small things, she
isn't satisfied. We talk about our budget and how we don't have
enough money for everything (which doesn't work, although she
sometimes puts something back if I say it is too expensive), we talk
about putting it on her wish list (which she will agree to after the
4th toy - ugh!), we talk about saving up her allowance to buy it in
the future, we discuss her feelings and why she might enjoy something
and maybe it is similar to something she already has, and we talk
about buying it the next time we come to that store.
As I said, my first defense is just not to bring her to a store, but I
don't have many people who can watch her for me and my dh works long
hours. He helps by usually doing the grocery shopping. But today, we
needed to pick up something for father's day and I bought her several
things at the pet store (with resentment from me towards the end).
When we arrived at the store for the father's day gift, she said she
just wanted to get one thing. I finally ended picking her up and
carrying her out of the store (which I rarely do, because it's not
respecting her autonomy), but I'd already spent too much at the pet
store and my resentment was huge.
I know she is only 4.5 yo. and can't grasp many of the concepts I
discuss with her. I just keep discussing them because I know someday
she will get them. Her 9 yo. sister is much better now at limiting
her purchases. However, when she was 4 yo., it was similar, so I know
the 4.5 yo. will eventually get it.
I just don't know what more I can do when I don't have a choice of
bringing her along on a shopping trip.
Thanks!
Marla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When there is lots of money, we mindlessly pick up the next trinket for the next designated day. When there is less money, maybe we start to think of other things Dad might like that don't cost much or anything. Then, maybe, we can include this sort of thinking in all our shopping decisions. Does Big Sister really need every new video game that comes out? Does Mom need that new bathing suit? Really?
To me, it goes hand in hand with questioning a lot of things. Do we really all have to sit around and watch each other eat dinner? Is there one right bed time? Why can't we have birthday cake for breakfast? Maybe that's what Dad would prefer. :)
Doing things, like shopping, because someone else put them on the calendar, should be questioned. Maybe we decide that we DO want to buy something for someone. But we have the option not to. And all the while we are modelling our new decision-making and shopping skills for Younger Sister.
Nance
Saying "No" to buying the 50th thing for a 4.5 yo.
Posted by: "Marla B." marla@... hilltowner4
Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:51 pm (PDT)
I've tried to reduce my shopping excursions with my 4.5 yo. as she
wants everything. Even when I buy her one or two small things, she
isn't satisfied. We talk about our budget and how we don't have
enough money for everything (which doesn't work, although she
sometimes puts something back if I say it is too expensive), we talk
about putting it on her wish list (which she will agree to after the
4th toy - ugh!), we talk about saving up her allowance to buy it in
the future, we discuss her feelings and why she might enjoy something
and maybe it is similar to something she already has, and we talk
about buying it the next time we come to that store.
As I said, my first defense is just not to bring her to a store, but I
don't have many people who can watch her for me and my dh works long
hours. He helps by usually doing the grocery shopping. But today, we
needed to pick up something for father's day and I bought her several
things at the pet store (with resentment from me towards the end).
When we arrived at the store for the father's day gift, she said she
just wanted to get one thing. I finally ended picking her up and
carrying her out of the store (which I rarely do, because it's not
respecting her autonomy), but I'd already spent too much at the pet
store and my resentment was huge.
I know she is only 4.5 yo. and can't grasp many of the concepts I
discuss with her. I just keep discussing them because I know someday
she will get them. Her 9 yo. sister is much better now at limiting
her purchases. However, when she was 4 yo., it was similar, so I know
the 4.5 yo. will eventually get it.
I just don't know what more I can do when I don't have a choice of
bringing her along on a shopping trip.
Thanks!
Marla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
:: anne | arun ::
our dd was a little like this at a similar age (about 2 years ago).
i found it useful to identify what buttons were being pressed for me
in this process. The two obvious ones i came up with were my
reactions of:
- how much money was being spent
- how many (mostly plastic) things we were accumulating
i aspire to have paradigm shifts along the lines of the advice people
have already posted to this thread and i find that to do so i must
compassionately and honestly hear what is coming up for me first. So
to know that these were my issues and really work out what was
happening for me at each specific request was really helpful.
eg. asking myself... would i mind if that was only $1 instead of $10.
Or would i mind if that was a beautiful wooden toy instead of a
barbie doll? etc etc. To get in touch with my own judgements and "stuff"
with the money we have experimented with several things... we did
allowance, so when i finally said "thats really beyond our budget" dd
could still choose to spend her $. Interestingly this lasted for
about 5 months but the deeper we got into it she found her needs were
being met and the allowance thing just sort of faded away... so we
dont do it anymore.
We also do things like going to the $2 shop or opp shop before our
big shop (do you have $2 shops in the US? opp shops are those really
cheap second hand places, not sure what they are called there either)
it allowed her to stock up on dolls, pens, glitter or what ever she
wanted quite cheaply.
Other times when she says she really wanted something ive said
something like "lets remember what that one looks like so we can find
it on ebay (or equivalent)". Ive had to be a little careful with this
as when she turned 5years old she picked up a doll in an exclusive
toy shop and shouted across it at the top of her voice, "hey dad,
can you help me remember this doll so we can find it on ebay?"
I have also sometimes reminded her about what she said she liked days
later and we have gone hunting for it, so i feel ive built up trust
that i will honor her requests rather than using it as a way to get
her to just put it down...
in terms of the plastic and how many "things" we have. The best i can
do is model and make my own choices along those lines. dd is like her
mum and does not like to give things away. We had a yard sale, talked
about what the money would go to etc, but she only felt comfortable
suggesting more of my stuff to sell ... which is actually pretty much
what her mum did also ;)
So to accommodate my need for less clutter and things dd recently
agreed that we will pack up a bunch of toys in a box and put it away.
Then after a few months bring them out and swap it with another
bunch. She does not want to sell them/ give them away (which i would
like) but even having less in each room is meeting my needs... and
she loves the idea of having a pseudo christmas every few months
revealing her boxed up forgotten toys again.
arun
_____________________________________________
http://www.theparentingpit.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i found it useful to identify what buttons were being pressed for me
in this process. The two obvious ones i came up with were my
reactions of:
- how much money was being spent
- how many (mostly plastic) things we were accumulating
i aspire to have paradigm shifts along the lines of the advice people
have already posted to this thread and i find that to do so i must
compassionately and honestly hear what is coming up for me first. So
to know that these were my issues and really work out what was
happening for me at each specific request was really helpful.
eg. asking myself... would i mind if that was only $1 instead of $10.
Or would i mind if that was a beautiful wooden toy instead of a
barbie doll? etc etc. To get in touch with my own judgements and "stuff"
with the money we have experimented with several things... we did
allowance, so when i finally said "thats really beyond our budget" dd
could still choose to spend her $. Interestingly this lasted for
about 5 months but the deeper we got into it she found her needs were
being met and the allowance thing just sort of faded away... so we
dont do it anymore.
We also do things like going to the $2 shop or opp shop before our
big shop (do you have $2 shops in the US? opp shops are those really
cheap second hand places, not sure what they are called there either)
it allowed her to stock up on dolls, pens, glitter or what ever she
wanted quite cheaply.
Other times when she says she really wanted something ive said
something like "lets remember what that one looks like so we can find
it on ebay (or equivalent)". Ive had to be a little careful with this
as when she turned 5years old she picked up a doll in an exclusive
toy shop and shouted across it at the top of her voice, "hey dad,
can you help me remember this doll so we can find it on ebay?"
I have also sometimes reminded her about what she said she liked days
later and we have gone hunting for it, so i feel ive built up trust
that i will honor her requests rather than using it as a way to get
her to just put it down...
in terms of the plastic and how many "things" we have. The best i can
do is model and make my own choices along those lines. dd is like her
mum and does not like to give things away. We had a yard sale, talked
about what the money would go to etc, but she only felt comfortable
suggesting more of my stuff to sell ... which is actually pretty much
what her mum did also ;)
So to accommodate my need for less clutter and things dd recently
agreed that we will pack up a bunch of toys in a box and put it away.
Then after a few months bring them out and swap it with another
bunch. She does not want to sell them/ give them away (which i would
like) but even having less in each room is meeting my needs... and
she loves the idea of having a pseudo christmas every few months
revealing her boxed up forgotten toys again.
arun
_____________________________________________
http://www.theparentingpit.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
balickgoodmanfamily
we've been thinking a lot about money management over the last year
and have learned that the more money my kids have, the better they're
able to manage it. the kids also started a very, very small home
business and that's been great for a lot of things, including a
savings account my kids wanted to start. my kids are 5 & 7, so we
started when the youngest was 4.
i think the key for our family is helping people get what they need,
while still honoring the family budget (we like to save for a rainy
day). if my kids want something that is more than their allowance, we
help contribute financially (bigger purchases take more time and
thought but the kids needs are considered as part of the family unit).
with your daughter, i'm wondering - why is she wanting to make these
purchases? does she want a new toy? does she like having the toys
around to learn? does she like the experience of shopping with you to
show you what she likes? i'm learning that the more i learn about what
my kids want, the more i can help them get it.
take care, lyssa
and have learned that the more money my kids have, the better they're
able to manage it. the kids also started a very, very small home
business and that's been great for a lot of things, including a
savings account my kids wanted to start. my kids are 5 & 7, so we
started when the youngest was 4.
i think the key for our family is helping people get what they need,
while still honoring the family budget (we like to save for a rainy
day). if my kids want something that is more than their allowance, we
help contribute financially (bigger purchases take more time and
thought but the kids needs are considered as part of the family unit).
with your daughter, i'm wondering - why is she wanting to make these
purchases? does she want a new toy? does she like having the toys
around to learn? does she like the experience of shopping with you to
show you what she likes? i'm learning that the more i learn about what
my kids want, the more i can help them get it.
take care, lyssa
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Two words:
DOLLAR STORE
Every time you go out take her to the dollar shop so she can shop for a lot of things for her self/ Give her a budges but not a number of things to buy.
At other stores when she shows you something that you cannot afford validate. Say that it does look cool Take a look at it. Be cheerful. Say yes we will get this when we can afford, or when we save enough money.
Do have a little book where you can physically write down in her wish list/
Seems like she wants quantity not specific things. Finding a way to do that for a while keeping your budget can help.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DOLLAR STORE
Every time you go out take her to the dollar shop so she can shop for a lot of things for her self/ Give her a budges but not a number of things to buy.
At other stores when she shows you something that you cannot afford validate. Say that it does look cool Take a look at it. Be cheerful. Say yes we will get this when we can afford, or when we save enough money.
Do have a little book where you can physically write down in her wish list/
Seems like she wants quantity not specific things. Finding a way to do that for a while keeping your budget can help.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellynrachel
Take her to the library. My 4.5 year old LOVES the library. She can
have anything in the library that she can fit in our bag. She gets to
borrow it for free. She gets to return in a week or two for another
shopping spree. It fills her need to *purchase* so many exciting things.
Another thought... what's in it for her? If I am setting up a
shopping trip (like today), I have 4 stores to go to. The second stop
is the library, and the final stop Lakeshore Learning where she can
make her own craft and take it home. We design our errand days to be
enticing to her as well. She is willing to wait for her stops if she
knows that they are coming. I am also very clear with her about how
some days she can get stuff and some days she can't. On the days that
she can get a treat or toy, I ask her to pick and choose or trade as
we go through the store. It takes time and patience. Save the
rationalizing for before the store or after you return home or to the
car with a calm child. She won't listen to reason when her beloved
gift was left in the store. Expect frustration. Be understanding and
compassionate. Be calm. Remain sympathetic. This situation looks
very different from her eyes.
Rachel
have anything in the library that she can fit in our bag. She gets to
borrow it for free. She gets to return in a week or two for another
shopping spree. It fills her need to *purchase* so many exciting things.
Another thought... what's in it for her? If I am setting up a
shopping trip (like today), I have 4 stores to go to. The second stop
is the library, and the final stop Lakeshore Learning where she can
make her own craft and take it home. We design our errand days to be
enticing to her as well. She is willing to wait for her stops if she
knows that they are coming. I am also very clear with her about how
some days she can get stuff and some days she can't. On the days that
she can get a treat or toy, I ask her to pick and choose or trade as
we go through the store. It takes time and patience. Save the
rationalizing for before the store or after you return home or to the
car with a calm child. She won't listen to reason when her beloved
gift was left in the store. Expect frustration. Be understanding and
compassionate. Be calm. Remain sympathetic. This situation looks
very different from her eyes.
Rachel
Elly
how funny! we've just been dealing with this with our 4.5yo. it must be the age. so far
we're pretty pleased with our solution. i had written for advice on tweaking our solution to
the AlwaysUnschooled list, and we're pretty thrilled now. what we did is that my husband
and i sat down and did a lot of calculating and budget tracking and figured out what we
spent on toys for both kids last year (excluding gifts) and pretty much halved it (well, we
allocated a little more than half of it to our daughter; our son isn't old enough to want his
own money) and divided by 52 and gave that amount to her every week. so she has control
of *the* toy money.
we then realized she isn't old enough to save, and it's unreasonable to say that she can't
have toys over $10 until she is able to plan and save, so we halved the amount again, and
half she gets once a week, the other half we save for her so when she wants something
larger we can afford it. the other half of the toy money is still mine to spend for my son
and for larger things for both kids.
this has enabled my daughter and i to be "friends" again at the store. she has control over
ALL the toy money, so if she wants something, it's not "mean" of me to say she can't have
it; if she has money she can get it, if she doesn't, she can save for it. suddenly she wants
my input about what we can make and whether the toy is similar to another toy, and
whether it looks like it would break easily and whether it's expensive for that kind of toy,
etc. pretty cool. it has been a huge relief for us.
the only negative is that *i* now have to be more careful with my spending; i can't buy a
toy that looks cool unless we have that much money saved!
this approach took a lot of up-front work from us, but we feel that it's really been worth it
for us. harmony has returned to our family. ;)
elly
we're pretty pleased with our solution. i had written for advice on tweaking our solution to
the AlwaysUnschooled list, and we're pretty thrilled now. what we did is that my husband
and i sat down and did a lot of calculating and budget tracking and figured out what we
spent on toys for both kids last year (excluding gifts) and pretty much halved it (well, we
allocated a little more than half of it to our daughter; our son isn't old enough to want his
own money) and divided by 52 and gave that amount to her every week. so she has control
of *the* toy money.
we then realized she isn't old enough to save, and it's unreasonable to say that she can't
have toys over $10 until she is able to plan and save, so we halved the amount again, and
half she gets once a week, the other half we save for her so when she wants something
larger we can afford it. the other half of the toy money is still mine to spend for my son
and for larger things for both kids.
this has enabled my daughter and i to be "friends" again at the store. she has control over
ALL the toy money, so if she wants something, it's not "mean" of me to say she can't have
it; if she has money she can get it, if she doesn't, she can save for it. suddenly she wants
my input about what we can make and whether the toy is similar to another toy, and
whether it looks like it would break easily and whether it's expensive for that kind of toy,
etc. pretty cool. it has been a huge relief for us.
the only negative is that *i* now have to be more careful with my spending; i can't buy a
toy that looks cool unless we have that much money saved!
this approach took a lot of up-front work from us, but we feel that it's really been worth it
for us. harmony has returned to our family. ;)
elly
--- In [email protected], "Marla B." <marla@...> wrote:
>
> I've tried to reduce my shopping excursions with my 4.5 yo. as she
> wants everything. Even when I buy her one or two small things, she
> isn't satisfied. We talk about our budget and how we don't have
> enough money for everything (which doesn't work, although she
> sometimes puts something back if I say it is too expensive), we talk
> about putting it on her wish list (which she will agree to after the
> 4th toy - ugh!), we talk about saving up her allowance to buy it in
> the future, we discuss her feelings and why she might enjoy something
> and maybe it is similar to something she already has, and we talk
> about buying it the next time we come to that store.
>
> As I said, my first defense is just not to bring her to a store, but I
> don't have many people who can watch her for me and my dh works long
> hours. He helps by usually doing the grocery shopping. But today, we
> needed to pick up something for father's day and I bought her several
> things at the pet store (with resentment from me towards the end).
> When we arrived at the store for the father's day gift, she said she
> just wanted to get one thing. I finally ended picking her up and
> carrying her out of the store (which I rarely do, because it's not
> respecting her autonomy), but I'd already spent too much at the pet
> store and my resentment was huge.
>
> I know she is only 4.5 yo. and can't grasp many of the concepts I
> discuss with her. I just keep discussing them because I know someday
> she will get them. Her 9 yo. sister is much better now at limiting
> her purchases. However, when she was 4 yo., it was similar, so I know
> the 4.5 yo. will eventually get it.
>
> I just don't know what more I can do when I don't have a choice of
> bringing her along on a shopping trip.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Marla
>
keetry
>But today, weWhen I'm going to the store for something very specific like this
> needed to pick up something for father's day
and I have to take my children I explain to them ahead of time that
we are just going to get this one thing. I went through this
recently when buying a birthday gift for my husband. My 4yo ds
wanted to go with me. While at the mall we looked in several stores
and he asked about several things. I just reminded him that we came
only to buy the gift for daddy. I make sure not to get sidetracked
myself and buy something extra for me or anyone else. He was fine
with that. He's always been pretty easy going, though. Temperament
definitely plays into how smoothly things like this go.
The other thing I do, which I think has been mentioned, is to set an
amount to spend before going in the store.
I like the idea that I think Joyce gave to have your child
participate in writing the shopping list. That way they can see that
you are buying things that are needed rather than just randomly
getting whatever you want, which is how it would appear to a young
child. If you make a habit of buying a few extra things that are not
on the list, then everyone should be able to choose some of those
extra things.
> I know she is only 4.5 yo. and can't grasp many of the concepts Isomeday
> discuss with her. I just keep discussing them because I know
> she will get them. Her 9 yo. sister is much better now at limitingknow
> her purchases. However, when she was 4 yo., it was similar, so I
> the 4.5 yo. will eventually get it.I've been discussing this sort of thing with my 4.5yo, too. He's
just recently started asking for things for his birthday rather than
right now so I think he's starting to get it.
I do make a point of making special trips to the store every once in
a while to get him that one coveted toy. That way he knows I will
get him things when I can.
Alysia
keetry
--- In [email protected], ":: anne | arun ::"
<life@...> wrote:
toys that we had no room to play safely so I asked ds if he would
mind packing some things away for a little while. I also asked if
there was anything he wouldn't mind selling in a yard sale. I got
two bags, one to pack and keep and one to sell. He filled each bag
with various things. I was very pleasantly surprised at how just
this little amount made things so much more manageable. I still
haven't had that yard sale so the bag to sell is in the garage where
he can see it. He asks about it periodically but doesn't want to
take anything back in the house.
Alysia
<life@...> wrote:
>recently
> So to accommodate my need for less clutter and things dd
> agreed that we will pack up a bunch of toys in a box and put itaway.
> Then after a few months bring them out and swap it with anotherWe did something like this recently. We were so overflowing with
> bunch.
toys that we had no room to play safely so I asked ds if he would
mind packing some things away for a little while. I also asked if
there was anything he wouldn't mind selling in a yard sale. I got
two bags, one to pack and keep and one to sell. He filled each bag
with various things. I was very pleasantly surprised at how just
this little amount made things so much more manageable. I still
haven't had that yard sale so the bag to sell is in the garage where
he can see it. He asks about it periodically but doesn't want to
take anything back in the house.
Alysia
Marla B.
> It's not unusual now that many families have to change their buyinghabits. Maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe when a day comes along
that has been designated as a "buy something for someone" day, like
Father's Day, we can think about whether that's really something we
want to participate in.
I agree - to an extent. I like a day set aside to further show our
love to our father's (although we try to show it everyday, my father
lives away from us, so it is a great day to visit him and my dh's
father). Actually, we usually make our gifts and rarely buy them for
any holiday or birthday. My older daughter usually will make a piece
of jewelry or paint a watercolor painting or sew something, my younger
daughter and I will do a craft together or she'll draw a picture, and
then I make a card of photos of that person with us pasted all over it
and decorated. For Father's Day, several years ago I bought each
grandfather and my husband an 8x10 frame and every year I take a new
picture of the girls and print out an 8x10 pic for each Dad.
It's not always easy taking this route, as my sister and her husband
and my parents can be very generous with their gift-giving, but that's
who we are and we aren't about to change.
This year, though, my husband has been having a hard time since his
mom's death (three years ago), so we decided to buy a bench kit and
put it together ourselves. We went to the mall to buy a small plaque
for the bench with his mom's name on it. It was there, that I felt at
a loss of how to help my dd and myself.
So, that's probably more than you needed to know, but I just want to
explain it a little better - lol.
Marla
Marla B.
THANKS!!! There were some fantastic tips, many we are already doing
and some that we need to tweak due to your suggestions. Thank you
also, Marji, for bringing me back to the basics of honoring my child.
You guys are awesome!!!
Marla
and some that we need to tweak due to your suggestions. Thank you
also, Marji, for bringing me back to the basics of honoring my child.
You guys are awesome!!!
Marla
Ginger and Jeff Sabo
We do as Elly does (except ours are now old enough to do it all), but we
take it a step further. We have envelopes with money in it (our budgeted
amount for the week) for food, misc., and their weekly money. When they
ask to go to the movies, we can all go check the misc envelope and find out
if we can. This leads to discussions about how we want to spend all our
money. Even at the grocery store.
--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)
http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/
LOVE has impact.
"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde
http://www.savetherain.org/
favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
take it a step further. We have envelopes with money in it (our budgeted
amount for the week) for food, misc., and their weekly money. When they
ask to go to the movies, we can all go check the misc envelope and find out
if we can. This leads to discussions about how we want to spend all our
money. Even at the grocery store.
--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)
http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/
LOVE has impact.
"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde
http://www.savetherain.org/
favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Creech
I would encourage you to check out the website
http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/ for some information and ideas
about dealing with the excessive commercialization of childhood and the
generally rampant consumerism of global culture. Teaching children about
where toys are made and by whom and why (child labor in China and other
parts of Asia, for example, for the profit of large multi-national
companies who have little interest in labor rights and children's
rights) can be an important part of unschooling, especially if you are a
"radical." This would be one important reason NOT to shop at the Dollar
Store or Walmart (just examples). We regularly get birthday gifts and
other holiday gifts that are hand-/homemade, and the joy of receiving
such a thoughtful gift long surpasses a store-bought Disney toy (and it
doesn't contribute to the exploitation of children around the world.)
You can also occasionally buy something that is union-made, or made by a
labor- and ecofriendly company (like Plan Toys, for example.) Another
good idea is to check out books by Susan Linn ("Consuming Kids" and "The
Case for Make Believe" are good), who argues that commercialization and
consumerism can co-opt children's emotional and psychological
development, especially in the realm of free play, and encourages us to
think of ways to challenge play as based on store-bought toys. One
enormous help can be limiting TV to PBS and DVDs w/o commercials and
heavily commercialized programs (again, most anything Disney et al.)
Good luck!
Jenny
http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/ for some information and ideas
about dealing with the excessive commercialization of childhood and the
generally rampant consumerism of global culture. Teaching children about
where toys are made and by whom and why (child labor in China and other
parts of Asia, for example, for the profit of large multi-national
companies who have little interest in labor rights and children's
rights) can be an important part of unschooling, especially if you are a
"radical." This would be one important reason NOT to shop at the Dollar
Store or Walmart (just examples). We regularly get birthday gifts and
other holiday gifts that are hand-/homemade, and the joy of receiving
such a thoughtful gift long surpasses a store-bought Disney toy (and it
doesn't contribute to the exploitation of children around the world.)
You can also occasionally buy something that is union-made, or made by a
labor- and ecofriendly company (like Plan Toys, for example.) Another
good idea is to check out books by Susan Linn ("Consuming Kids" and "The
Case for Make Believe" are good), who argues that commercialization and
consumerism can co-opt children's emotional and psychological
development, especially in the realm of free play, and encourages us to
think of ways to challenge play as based on store-bought toys. One
enormous help can be limiting TV to PBS and DVDs w/o commercials and
heavily commercialized programs (again, most anything Disney et al.)
Good luck!
Jenny
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 14, 2008, at 7:24 AM, balickgoodmanfamily wrote:
out a little at a time just when they were asking for something right
then, the kids had good reason to ask for money to spend right then.
When they had more coming in on a regular basis, they began to plan
ahead and save and, yes, decide to forego many little impulsive
purchases.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> we've been thinking a lot about money management over the last yearThis reminded me that this was very true for us. When money was doled
> and have learned that the more money my kids have, the better they're
> able to manage it.
out a little at a time just when they were asking for something right
then, the kids had good reason to ask for money to spend right then.
When they had more coming in on a regular basis, they began to plan
ahead and save and, yes, decide to forego many little impulsive
purchases.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 15, 2008, at 2:16 AM, Jennifer Creech wrote:
If we want to share our values, it comes across more authentically
when we tell them why we make the choices we do for ourselves, why
we're voluntarily choosing to make life a little less easy for
ourselves to reach a goal that's important to us, rather than give
them information on why we think they should change. There should be
no expectations that they take on our values.
If a child is then curious, offering them information about things
they care about, like the toys, would be helping them expand their
knowledge about something they're interested in.
But in response to a parent's discomfort with a child's natural wants
and behavior, the first place to begin is by examining ourselves not
changing the child.
are made -- as in part of the family culture -- it could heap guilt
on a child for still wanting what they want.
not shrinking them with our fears.
Do you want your husband to limit you to certain sections of the
bookstore? If you wouldn't want him to do that to you, why would you
treat another human being that way?
If we approach commercial TV with fear with the attitude our kids
need protected from it, our children will feel less powerful.
Commercials are a great way to discuss how advertisers try to get us
to buy things. (I found the discussions went much better when the
commercials were *not* for something my daughter wanted and there
wasn't an underlying agenda to get her to stop wanting what she saw.)
The huge amount of inspiration my daughter got from free access to
commercial TV would have been lost if I had tried to define what was
safe and useful for her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Teaching children aboutAnd can also backfire hugely when the goal is to change the child.
> where toys are made and by whom and why (child labor in China and
> other
> parts of Asia
If we want to share our values, it comes across more authentically
when we tell them why we make the choices we do for ourselves, why
we're voluntarily choosing to make life a little less easy for
ourselves to reach a goal that's important to us, rather than give
them information on why we think they should change. There should be
no expectations that they take on our values.
If a child is then curious, offering them information about things
they care about, like the toys, would be helping them expand their
knowledge about something they're interested in.
But in response to a parent's discomfort with a child's natural wants
and behavior, the first place to begin is by examining ourselves not
changing the child.
> and itUnless a child is already receptive to the idea of how and why things
> doesn't contribute to the exploitation of children around the world.
are made -- as in part of the family culture -- it could heap guilt
on a child for still wanting what they want.
> AnotherReally bad idea for unschoolers. We should be expanding their worlds,
> good idea is to check out books by Susan Linn ("Consuming Kids" and
> "The
> Case for Make Believe" are good), who argues that commercialization
> and
> consumerism can co-opt children's emotional and psychological
> development, especially in the realm of free play, and encourages
> us to
> think of ways to challenge play as based on store-bought toys. One
> enormous help can be limiting TV to PBS and DVDs w/o commercials and
> heavily commercialized programs (again, most anything Disney et al.)
not shrinking them with our fears.
Do you want your husband to limit you to certain sections of the
bookstore? If you wouldn't want him to do that to you, why would you
treat another human being that way?
If we approach commercial TV with fear with the attitude our kids
need protected from it, our children will feel less powerful.
Commercials are a great way to discuss how advertisers try to get us
to buy things. (I found the discussions went much better when the
commercials were *not* for something my daughter wanted and there
wasn't an underlying agenda to get her to stop wanting what she saw.)
The huge amount of inspiration my daughter got from free access to
commercial TV would have been lost if I had tried to define what was
safe and useful for her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bluemoonascending
--- In [email protected], "Marla B." <marla@...> wrote:
A few ideas that may or may not help. :)
Recognizing that she has a lot of wants (in a non-critical way) might
be helpful. She sees many items with potential for fun or engaging
play. If you have time at the store... talk about what she would do
with the toy/item. You do not have to try to dissuade her..in fact I
would try to offer even more suggestions for ways to have fun with the
items. Be excited for her about her enthusiasm. Having a non-
confrontational conversation with her about stuff might show that you
have a more *neutral* attitude towards toy acquisition :) and slowly
turn it away from a conflict or struggle. You can still opt not to buy
toys even if they do seem like really great things to get. I think
often kids see toys and they have an immediate desire for it...but if
they spend a little bit of time with the object that desire lessens and
they find it easier to not bring it home after all.
Use humor to turn around a situation thats going downhill. Wouldn't it
be fantastic if you could get a huge truck and bring ALL the toys
home? Could you possibly get enough toys to make a pile all the way to
the moon? This does not have to turn into a lesson or lecture on how
far it is to the moon, or the *ills* of consumerism...but it engages
some fantasy element to help diffuse possible upset feelings.
Say yes we can get that toy...when its time to get a new toy. Now may
not be the time, for whatever family reasons you have. But leaving it
as an option for another time might make it easier to leave the
store.
Best of luck!
hbmccarty
Hi Marla-
My daughter(11) just really loves shopping. She has enjoyed online games
where you win points and then purchase items- Webkins and Club Penguin.
She has also had a store set up in her room for long periods of time-
and would invite us in to "shop"- pretend money or real, and she made a
cardboard ATM and gave us cards and receipts, etc. Giving a dollar
amount limit on a particular trip has worked for us on shopping trips-
or pick 2 things you want the most - especially in the grocery store
when she tends to throw in many items. An allowance is okay but usually
it runs out quickly and she wants more to spend. Her brother has gotten
a similar allowance and it never seems to run out as he just doesn't
care so much about the actual act of shopping- but more will get
something when he wants that thing. She makes lots of shopping lists and
budgets for herself and what started as a difficult situation has become
a real source of enjoyment and learning for both of us.
I have started to get up really early on Saturday morning to do the bulk
of the shopping alone, also. It is much less crowded and faster - and
then we make plenty of shorter stops during the week that can be more
focused on her needs.
Heather
My daughter(11) just really loves shopping. She has enjoyed online games
where you win points and then purchase items- Webkins and Club Penguin.
She has also had a store set up in her room for long periods of time-
and would invite us in to "shop"- pretend money or real, and she made a
cardboard ATM and gave us cards and receipts, etc. Giving a dollar
amount limit on a particular trip has worked for us on shopping trips-
or pick 2 things you want the most - especially in the grocery store
when she tends to throw in many items. An allowance is okay but usually
it runs out quickly and she wants more to spend. Her brother has gotten
a similar allowance and it never seems to run out as he just doesn't
care so much about the actual act of shopping- but more will get
something when he wants that thing. She makes lots of shopping lists and
budgets for herself and what started as a difficult situation has become
a real source of enjoyment and learning for both of us.
I have started to get up really early on Saturday morning to do the bulk
of the shopping alone, also. It is much less crowded and faster - and
then we make plenty of shorter stops during the week that can be more
focused on her needs.
Heather
keetry
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
commercials on TV. We joke about the pharmaceutical commercials. He
gets a kick out of the side effects that are listed. Hmmm...Do I
want a stuffy nose or diahrrea and possible death? LOL If we didn't
have commercial TV, we may not have had the chance to discuss those
things in the same way. He would not have had the same experience to
learn to think for himself about those commercials. He's always
wanted certain things but he's never been much interested in things
just because of the brand or because he saw it on TV. He has always
been exposed to commercial TV and he is not a slave to commercialism.
Alysia
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>us
> If we approach commercial TV with fear with the attitude our kids
> need protected from it, our children will feel less powerful.
> Commercials are a great way to discuss how advertisers try to get
> to buy things.I've had some great conversations with my oldest son about
commercials on TV. We joke about the pharmaceutical commercials. He
gets a kick out of the side effects that are listed. Hmmm...Do I
want a stuffy nose or diahrrea and possible death? LOL If we didn't
have commercial TV, we may not have had the chance to discuss those
things in the same way. He would not have had the same experience to
learn to think for himself about those commercials. He's always
wanted certain things but he's never been much interested in things
just because of the brand or because he saw it on TV. He has always
been exposed to commercial TV and he is not a slave to commercialism.
Alysia