Faith Void

---Original Message-----
From: Faith Void <littlemsvoid@...>

My struggle is not with getting it, I get it. It is with applying it.
Faith

-=-=-=-=-

Well, you're already halfway there. <g>

Specifics? Maybe we can help.

========
It is so in my face right now...
I would like to live consensually with my kids. I have been trying to
talk with then and come to agreeable solutions. Sometimes they (ok
mostly the 5y/o) will refuse to talk or even listen. I don't know what
to do. I learned to parent from Dr. Sears books. 2 years ago I learned
about radical unschooling and the philosophy lit up my heart. This is
the way my partner and I wanted to parent. So we are struggling to
give up our coercive ways and be more in partnership with our kids.
W.e worked through US'ing television, food, etc. I am still struggling
with chores, we don't have any for the kids but I still get bent about
it occaisionally. My biggest road block is safety and disrespect. I do
sometimes resort to punishment when I can't figure things out. But
because I know there is a kinder way I feel horrible doing that.
example:
Today at Target we went to buy outdoor toys. I am the house in town
that all the kids congregate so we needed to get more supplies like
chalk, bubbles, etc. We made a list. When we get there they keep
asking me for stuff. I explain the limited funds. Remind that that
next weekend we will be going away, etc. Still my ds5 pitches a few
fits. I work through them, his sister even works thru one with him. He
screams that he does care about xyz he wants what he wants and he
wants it now! I feel like I am livinf with a tyrant who will not
accept a no. I feel really frustrated. I can't handle these frequent
melt downs emotionally. I get anxiety, I am not sure if having anxiety
is incompatible with RU. Also we got large play balls. The kids kept
bouncing them and stuff. But the store was not crowded but had a few
people. I asked them to put them in the car or hold on to them. I
explained that there were too many people to bounce balls and that it
would be disrespectful to do so. ds5 kept doig it. I know he just
forgot but when I reminded him he got really verbally abusive. I did
after severaln reminders tell him that if the ball left his hands
again i would put it away. I felt like that was a threat of punishment
but I didn't know what else to do.

I also sent him to his room because I needed space from his almost
constant verbal abuse today. He just woke up in a crappy mood and
takes it out on me and whoever is around.This is frequent. Nothing
helps him to feel better. ok, at least nothing I have been able to
figure out. He is so full of anger and wants to hurt people.

Faith




--
www.bearthmama.com

swissarmy_wife

Faith,

This may or may not apply to you. If it doesn't then maybe someone
else can use the info. :-)

I'm about 33 weeks pregnant now. (Getting there) and I only recently
(maybe a week or two ago) started fixing the damage I feel I have done
during the course of this pregnancy. I ended up getting one night
away with my husband (anniversary) and (instead of enjoying his
company - sorry) I did nothing but think about how I and we could fix
what was happening. It was just eating at me. We were experiencing a
lot of the same things you described, only mine is 9!

What I did, was really look deep to see how I had changed when I got
pregnant. I had become something of a hormonal mess. Or so i felt
like one anyway. I was snappy and rude, short tempered, tired a lot
more, emotionally unavailable, and less sensitive to their needs. It
was really hard to make the change, but i had to stop thinking about
me and really focus on THEM. I still feel that being pregnant takes
so much out of their precious lives, but I suppose its a learning
experience for all of us.

I sort of used the "kill em with kindness" thing. I just practiced
being as patient and as kind as humanly possible. Until it became
natural again. I made some special days for the older child (who seem
to be suffering more). We're painting his room, and I'm really
focussing on paying more attention to him and his needs. We brought
some more toys into the common area and I am playing with him more.

Anyway... in a nutshell. In order to figure out why my kids were
suddenly acting like they were before unschooling, I had to look at my
own behavior and fix it. Fast!

-Heather


--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:


> It is so in my face right now...
> I would like to live consensually with my kids. I have been trying to
> talk with then and come to agreeable solutions. Sometimes they (ok
> mostly the 5y/o) will refuse to talk or even listen. I don't know what
> to do. I learned to parent from Dr. Sears books. 2 years ago I learned
> about radical unschooling and the philosophy lit up my heart. This is
> the way my partner and I wanted to parent. So we are struggling to
> give up our coercive ways and be more in partnership with our kids.
> W.e worked through US'ing television, food, etc. I am still struggling
> with chores, we don't have any for the kids but I still get bent about
> it occaisionally. My biggest road block is safety and disrespect. I do
> sometimes resort to punishment when I can't figure things out. But
> because I know there is a kinder way I feel horrible doing that.
> example:
> Today at Target we went to buy outdoor toys. I am the house in town
> that all the kids congregate so we needed to get more supplies like
> chalk, bubbles, etc. We made a list. When we get there they keep
> asking me for stuff. I explain the limited funds. Remind that that
> next weekend we will be going away, etc. Still my ds5 pitches a few
> fits. I work through them, his sister even works thru one with him. He
> screams that he does care about xyz he wants what he wants and he
> wants it now! I feel like I am livinf with a tyrant who will not
> accept a no. I feel really frustrated. I can't handle these frequent
> melt downs emotionally. I get anxiety, I am not sure if having anxiety
> is incompatible with RU. Also we got large play balls. The kids kept
> bouncing them and stuff. But the store was not crowded but had a few
> people. I asked them to put them in the car or hold on to them. I
> explained that there were too many people to bounce balls and that it
> would be disrespectful to do so. ds5 kept doig it. I know he just
> forgot but when I reminded him he got really verbally abusive. I did
> after severaln reminders tell him that if the ball left his hands
> again i would put it away. I felt like that was a threat of punishment
> but I didn't know what else to do.
>
> I also sent him to his room because I needed space from his almost
> constant verbal abuse today. He just woke up in a crappy mood and
> takes it out on me and whoever is around.This is frequent. Nothing
> helps him to feel better. ok, at least nothing I have been able to
> figure out. He is so full of anger and wants to hurt people.
>
> Faith
>
>
>
>
> --
> www.bearthmama.com
>

Kim Musolff

***This is frequent. Nothing
helps him to feel better. ok, at least nothing I have been able to
figure out. He is so full of anger and wants to hurt people.***

Your son sounds like my son(6)! But I think we had a break through today at
the grocery store. He wanted to get a magazine (which I let him have). But
at the checkout, he changed his mind and asked for a Rockies baseball
toy--many of which were on display at the end of the checkout counter. I
told him that it depended on which one. (Some were more expensive than
others.) He couldn't decide and it ended up that I was finished checking
out before he could decide, so we left without one. Of course he threw a
fit. But I've been trying to be more understanding, and I could definitely
see his point of view on this, so I think that helped me stay calm.

Normally I would have forced him into the car or a quiet corner of the store
where we could talk, and no one would be staring at us. But I felt more
confident this time, for some reason, and didn't care who was staring. We
calmly talked (with several not so calm shouts from him) about why he
couldn't have the toy. He didn't care, but I was willing to stay and
continue talking as long as it took. I tried to stay very calm and loving.
Then he started pulling all the toys off the rack and throwing them on the
floor. I did physically have to stop him on this, and I carried him into
the cart. I told him those weren't our toys, and I couldn't let him be
disrespectful. In the past this kind of behavior has escalated into full on
yelling and screaming and kicking on his part, especially if I have to
physically control him. But he seemed okay with me putting him in the
cart.

Out in the parking lot, he refused to get out of the cart and into the car.
He started crying about how his life sucked and nothing ever goes right.
(His usual response in situations like these. But normally it goes on for
at least a half hour.) Instead of brushing that off or even trying to
respond to the comment, I just reached over and gave him a hug. And he let
me hug him. Then I tried one more time to get him out of the cart, but he
still resisted. I looked at him and said, "What do you need?" He said,
"More love from you." So we hugged some more. Then suddenly, he perked up
and said, "Let's go to the park." He hopped out of the cart and into the
car, and off we went. Incident over.

I'm not saying that "all he needs is a hug." In fact, I can't exactly
pinpoint what I did to change his behavior. I don't know if it was my
unusually calm energy, the actual hug, or the beginning of a change in our
relationship since we've been moving towards "no punishment." Maybe someone
here has some insight.

Anyway, I thought I'd share this story, just to say there is hope. It may
be gradual, but you'll soon start to notice little changes!

Kim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carenkh

--- In [email protected], "Kim Musolff" <kmoose75@...>
wrote:
>
>He couldn't decide and it ended up that I was finished checking
> out before he could decide, so we left without one.



Just something to think about - In that situation, I would have
finished checking out, then waited with him while he chose, then we
would have gone through the line again. I'm sure there are other
solutions, too.

I'm *sure* your calmer energy helped! It's so cool to find that space
within yourself - yay! to you!

peace,
Caren

keetry

--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> It is so in my face right now...
> I would like to live consensually with my kids. I have been trying
to
> talk with then and come to agreeable solutions. Sometimes they (ok
> mostly the 5y/o) will refuse to talk or even listen. I don't know
what
> to do. I learned to parent from Dr. Sears books. 2 years ago I
learned
> about radical unschooling and the philosophy lit up my heart. This
is
> the way my partner and I wanted to parent. So we are struggling to
> give up our coercive ways and be more in partnership with our kids.
> W.e worked through US'ing television, food, etc. I am still
struggling
> with chores, we don't have any for the kids but I still get bent
about
> it occaisionally. My biggest road block is safety and disrespect.
I do
> sometimes resort to punishment when I can't figure things out. But
> because I know there is a kinder way I feel horrible doing that.
> example:
> Today at Target we went to buy outdoor toys. I am the house in town
> that all the kids congregate so we needed to get more supplies like
> chalk, bubbles, etc. We made a list. When we get there they keep
> asking me for stuff. I explain the limited funds. Remind that that
> next weekend we will be going away, etc. Still my ds5 pitches a few
> fits. I work through them, his sister even works thru one with
him. He
> screams that he does care about xyz he wants what he wants and he
> wants it now!

==============

One thing that helps me with this sort of stuff is to remember that
it's very normal for that age. It's ok for him to be upset that he
can't have everything he wants right this moment. He truly does not
understand why not.

Empathizing with your son may help. I talk to my ds about how hard
it is to wait for things we really want and how much it really
stinks to not be able to get everything we want right now. I tell
him about things that I want that I can't afford right now (and
probably never will be able to). That won't necessarily make him
stop crying and screaming but I hope it lets him know that we all
feel that way and it's ok.

=======

I feel like I am livinf with a tyrant who will not
> accept a no. I feel really frustrated. I can't handle these
frequent
> melt downs emotionally. I get anxiety,

=========

When I'm feeling upset about my child's behavior in public it is
always because I'm worried about what other people will think. I've
had to change my thinking and tell myself, if anyone is thinking
anything about us, they are probably thinking that they know how it
is (even if that may not be true it makes me feel better).

=======

>I am not sure if having anxiety
> is incompatible with RU.

========

Anxiety is normal. Any feeling is normal. It's what you do with
those feelings that makes the difference.

========

Also we got large play balls. The kids kept
> bouncing them and stuff. But the store was not crowded but had a
few
> people. I asked them to put them in the car or hold on to them. I
> explained that there were too many people to bounce balls and that
it
> would be disrespectful to do so. ds5 kept doig it.

==========

I don't see how bouncing balls in the store is disrespectful. I can
see how it might be dangerous. A ball could hit a person, even a
small child, who could get hurt or it could hit some other things in
the store and break them. Maybe your ds would've responded better to
that reasoning.

=======

> I also sent him to his room because I needed space from his almost
> constant verbal abuse today.

=========

I think it's prefectly ok for you to take a time out if you are
feeling very angry, upset, overwhelmed. There are ways to do it
without it being a punishment for your child. Sometimes I tell my ds
that I'm feeling very whatever and need a moment to myself and would
like to go in my room alone for a little bit. I couldn't do that
when he was 3 but now that he's 4 he's getting better with this
concept.

===========

He just woke up in a crappy mood and
> takes it out on me and whoever is around.This is frequent. Nothing
> helps him to feel better. ok, at least nothing I have been able to
> figure out. He is so full of anger and wants to hurt people.

===========

Have you tried just being present for him? Let him get out all his
angry feelings in a safe place with you just there not passing
judgement, not reacting at all. Let him lead. Hold him if he wants
to be held. Sit on the other side of the room if he wants to rant
and rave and not be touched.


Alysia

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Musolff <kmoose75@...>

Instead of brushing that off or even trying to
respond to the comment, I just reached over and gave him a hug. And he
let
me hug him. Then I tried one more time to get him out of the cart, but
he
still resisted. I looked at him and said, "What do you need?" He said,
"More love from you." So we hugged some more. Then suddenly, he
perked up
and said, "Let's go to the park." He hopped out of the cart and into
the
car, and off we went. Incident over.

I'm not saying that "all he needs is a hug." In fact, I can't exactly
pinpoint what I did to change his behavior. I don't know if it was my
unusually calm energy, the actual hug, or the beginning of a change in
our
relationship since we've been moving towards "no punishment." Maybe
someone
here has some insight.

-=-=-=-=-

When I was a young teen, I was at a check-out with my dad. A child in
front of us was "throwing a tantrum." My dad told me that the child
probably just needed a hug.

That stuck with me all my life.

I always remembered it with my own boys---that they needed my
*attention*. When I joined these lists and read what the posters wrote
about how to deal with these "tantrums," it made all the sense in the
world---just like my dad's statement. Just not to ignore my child and
to be attentive and caring and understanding. It seems so simple---and
it is. Children are often hungry or tired or don't *want* to be there.
And it's *hard* to be in a store and not GET something---especially
when the person with you is *getting* so much!

Just a little love and understanding can go sooo far!



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org