hbmccarty

My 15 yr old son has been very interested in music since he was about
11. He began by exploring on his own, listening, playing with tab and by
ear, and has had various lessons and experiences of an informal nature
until last summer. We live in a small college town. He mainly plays
upright and electric bass and there arelimited options for mentors on
the upright bass. One college has a reputable music department and the
professor of bass there agreed to take on my son as a regular student.
He is a very interesting person, a composer/performer across genres, and
teaches a method that emphasizes ergonomics and comfort to extend the
range and improve sound quality. I think we are all a bit in awe of
him. He treats my son as he does the undergrads he teaches- he expects
a lot and pushes him to perfect technique. My son has said he will do
anything that this teacher says- I think because he really wants to play
as well as possible and has a lot of respect for this teacher's ability
to help him do that. They work on a lot of theory and writing and
playing jazz lines, transcribing, as well as scales and working at what
seems like high speed through a series that emphasizes classical pieces.
My son enjoys a lot of it but some of it has become what seems like
work. He sets aside at least a couple of hours a day for preparing for
these lessons 5 days a week plus a day for a lesson. In addition he
plays keyboard and acoustic guitar and electric guitar "informally" and
performs with various groups with other young people both independently
and with the local high school. This weekend we heard him singing in his
room- one of his bands needs a singer and he has decided to give it a
try. It is pretty exciting to be a witness to his journey- and it is
pure joy listening to him play.

However, I feel like we are entering upon dangerous territory where his
own desires might get confused with those of his teacher and other
adults. The teacher suggested that he play in a youth orchestra- which
involves an hour drive each way once a week every Sunday. He prefers to
play jazz, funk, rock, and listens to a lot of hip hop. The classical
pieces are challenging for him but he doesn't really usually enjoy
classical music to listen to. He is thinking about it. He has taken on
other large commitments to perform and then felt really bored with all
the rehearsals- most recently with the high school musical. The music
was not challenging enough or of a type he prefers- anyway he had made
the decision and then regretted it but the consequences of quitting
weren't desirable either.

I am feeling a little worried about maintaining the absolute that this
is about our son and what he wants rather than trying to please this
teacher and other adults involved. I often remind my husband of this. I
trust my son to let us know when/if he is ready to make a change but I
guess I am just nervous as it seems so schooly. Several kids he plays
with are seniors in high school and there is a LOT of talk about music
schools- many of them are finding out which schools they are getting
into. I fear that he will get swept along and then find out later that
it is not for him- though I guess that would be okay and he would
survive that. That certainly is what happened to me- college was
miserable experience in which I felt I had no choice- was in abusive
relationship and made it through by the skin of my teeth- not at all
joyful- though I have been able to come back to the same field and do
enjoy it now. I do remind him that he always has the choice to stop or
change - which sometimes makes him mad- maybe it insults his
intelligence. It is just that I didn't know I had a choice at that age
and it is new to me to be going through this stage with him- of getting
serious about a possible life direction and being very affected by the
predetermined path that exists out there. It is like a big magnet- very
attractive in many ways- but not the only way though those involved may
think so.

Is is a challenge for me to stay here and now and not get excited about
possibilities for the future- and to know how much to seek out
opportunities. He may prefer opportunities which are more difficult to
find in a small town - there are certain mainstream things that are
easily accessible. What he really LOVED most of all was playing with a
jazz/funk group of high school kids - he was asked to substitute
recently when the bass player was on vacation. Networking is not always
easy for him- he is younger than most of the musicians he enjoys playing
with and that he feels are at his level of commitment and proficiency-
so a social aspect enters into it- he doesn't feel comfortable taking
initiative. It is easy just to show up at an audition that is arranged
by an adult and play. It is much 'easier' for me to register him for an
orchestra audition that to support him in creating a small group playing
music he loves- though I certainly will and can do both or either.

Anyway- does anyone have any thoughts or have had any similar
experiences that would be able to offer any suggestions? I guess I just
want to be held accountable to radical unschooling principles on this so
please point out anything that seems strange in my thinking. I fear that
I am being swept away- we get SO much positive feedback about his music
and I feel so happy about it and so proud and excited for him that I
fear my ability to maintain sanity especially in contact with the
insanity of other adults. Also I hang back from fully embracing a
mainstream path.

Heather

brad jones

From what I understand about unschooling, it is all about trusting your son at this point to decide what he wants to do in this situation. Do you trust he'll do ok?



----- Original Message ----
From: hbmccarty <hbmccarty@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:55:05 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] music and mainstream paths

My 15 yr old son has been very interested in music since he was about
11. He began by exploring on his own, listening, playing with tab and by
ear, and has had various lessons and experiences of an informal nature
until last summer. We live in a small college town. He mainly plays
upright and electric bass and there arelimited options for mentors on
the upright bass. One college has a reputable music department and the
professor of bass there agreed to take on my son as a regular student.
He is a very interesting person, a composer/performer across genres, and
teaches a method that emphasizes ergonomics and comfort to extend the
range and improve sound quality. I think we are all a bit in awe of
him. He treats my son as he does the undergrads he teaches- he expects
a lot and pushes him to perfect technique. My son has said he will do
anything that this teacher says- I think because he really wants to play
as well as possible and has a lot of respect for this teacher's ability
to help him do that. They work on a lot of theory and writing and
playing jazz lines, transcribing, as well as scales and working at what
seems like high speed through a series that emphasizes classical pieces.
My son enjoys a lot of it but some of it has become what seems like
work. He sets aside at least a couple of hours a day for preparing for
these lessons 5 days a week plus a day for a lesson. In addition he
plays keyboard and acoustic guitar and electric guitar "informally" and
performs with various groups with other young people both independently
and with the local high school. This weekend we heard him singing in his
room- one of his bands needs a singer and he has decided to give it a
try. It is pretty exciting to be a witness to his journey- and it is
pure joy listening to him play.

However, I feel like we are entering upon dangerous territory where his
own desires might get confused with those of his teacher and other
adults. The teacher suggested that he play in a youth orchestra- which
involves an hour drive each way once a week every Sunday. He prefers to
play jazz, funk, rock, and listens to a lot of hip hop. The classical
pieces are challenging for him but he doesn't really usually enjoy
classical music to listen to. He is thinking about it. He has taken on
other large commitments to perform and then felt really bored with all
the rehearsals- most recently with the high school musical. The music
was not challenging enough or of a type he prefers- anyway he had made
the decision and then regretted it but the consequences of quitting
weren't desirable either.

I am feeling a little worried about maintaining the absolute that this
is about our son and what he wants rather than trying to please this
teacher and other adults involved. I often remind my husband of this. I
trust my son to let us know when/if he is ready to make a change but I
guess I am just nervous as it seems so schooly. Several kids he plays
with are seniors in high school and there is a LOT of talk about music
schools- many of them are finding out which schools they are getting
into. I fear that he will get swept along and then find out later that
it is not for him- though I guess that would be okay and he would
survive that. That certainly is what happened to me- college was
miserable experience in which I felt I had no choice- was in abusive
relationship and made it through by the skin of my teeth- not at all
joyful- though I have been able to come back to the same field and do
enjoy it now. I do remind him that he always has the choice to stop or
change - which sometimes makes him mad- maybe it insults his
intelligence. It is just that I didn't know I had a choice at that age
and it is new to me to be going through this stage with him- of getting
serious about a possible life direction and being very affected by the
predetermined path that exists out there. It is like a big magnet- very
attractive in many ways- but not the only way though those involved may
think so.

Is is a challenge for me to stay here and now and not get excited about
possibilities for the future- and to know how much to seek out
opportunities. He may prefer opportunities which are more difficult to
find in a small town - there are certain mainstream things that are
easily accessible. What he really LOVED most of all was playing with a
jazz/funk group of high school kids - he was asked to substitute
recently when the bass player was on vacation. Networking is not always
easy for him- he is younger than most of the musicians he enjoys playing
with and that he feels are at his level of commitment and proficiency-
so a social aspect enters into it- he doesn't feel comfortable taking
initiative. It is easy just to show up at an audition that is arranged
by an adult and play. It is much 'easier' for me to register him for an
orchestra audition that to support him in creating a small group playing
music he loves- though I certainly will and can do both or either.

Anyway- does anyone have any thoughts or have had any similar
experiences that would be able to offer any suggestions? I guess I just
want to be held accountable to radical unschooling principles on this so
please point out anything that seems strange in my thinking. I fear that
I am being swept away- we get SO much positive feedback about his music
and I feel so happy about it and so proud and excited for him that I
fear my ability to maintain sanity especially in contact with the
insanity of other adults. Also I hang back from fully embracing a
mainstream path.

Heather





____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Heather, I had written a really l-o-n-g response to this ---all about
Cameron's musical career and all the doors opened for him and all the
lessons learned---ugh!---and was suddenly kicked off the server right
before I was going to hit send.

I'm sorry!

I will tell you that I was in a similar boat. Cameron played drums.

His interest has now waned, but (as with all of Cameron's passions!
<G>) it was ALL-CONSUMING at one time. <g>

We assumed (as we have with all of his passions) that this would
probably be his career. Doesn't look like it now. Maybe his new
backpacking/camping passion will be his career. <BWG>

*I* ALWAYS get excited about Cam's future. It always looks so cool! <g>
Magic, film-making. drumming---now outdoor leadership----it all looks
cool!

But time passes really, really quickly, and it won't be long before
he's NOT the youngest one there. By the time he's 18, there'll be
another 15 year old impressing the socks off everyone!

Anyway....I think that, if he *knows* he can stop at any time, he'll be
fine. I'd let him pursue as long and as hard as he wants to. He may
make a few wrong turns and bad decisions, but each one will be a good
learning-take. As long as he knows you're right there, it'll be fine.

If he's ever near SC, we'd love to have him come jam!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

-----Original Message-----
From: hbmccarty <hbmccarty@...>

My 15 yr old son has been very interested in music since he was about
11. He began by exploring on his own, listening, playing with tab and
by
ear, and has had various lessons and experiences of an informal nature
until last summer. We live in a small college town. He mainly plays
upright and electric bass and there arelimited options for mentors on
the upright bass. One college has a reputable music department and the
professor of bass there agreed to take on my son as a regular student.
He is a very interesting person, a composer/performer across genres,
and
teaches a method that emphasizes ergonomics and comfort to extend the
range and improve sound quality. I think we are all a bit in awe of
him. He treats my son as he does the undergrads he teaches- he expects
a lot and pushes him to perfect technique. My son has said he will do
anything that this teacher says- I think because he really wants to
play
as well as possible and has a lot of respect for this teacher's ability
to help him do that. They work on a lot of theory and writing and
playing jazz lines, transcribing, as well as scales and working at what
seems like high speed through a series that emphasizes classical
pieces.
My son enjoys a lot of it but some of it has become what seems like
work. He sets aside at least a couple of hours a day for preparing for
these lessons 5 days a week plus a day for a lesson. In addition he
plays keyboard and acoustic guitar and electric guitar "informally" and
performs with various groups with other young people both independently
and with the local high school. This weekend we heard him singing in
his
room- one of his bands needs a singer and he has decided to give it a
try. It is pretty exciting to be a witness to his journey- and it is
pure joy listening to him play.

However, I feel like we are entering upon dangerous territory where his
own desires might get confused with those of his teacher and other
adults. The teacher suggested that he play in a youth orchestra- which
involves an hour drive each way once a week every Sunday. He prefers to
play jazz, funk, rock, and listens to a lot of hip hop. The classical
pieces are challenging for him but he doesn't really usually enjoy
classical music to listen to. He is thinking about it. He has taken on
other large commitments to perform and then felt really bored with all
the rehearsals- most recently with the high school musical. The music
was not challenging enough or of a type he prefers- anyway he had made
the decision and then regretted it but the consequences of quitting
weren't desirable either.

I am feeling a little worried about maintaining the absolute that this
is about our son and what he wants rather than trying to please this
teacher and other adults involved. I often remind my husband of this. I
trust my son to let us know when/if he is ready to make a change but I
guess I am just nervous as it seems so schooly. Several kids he plays
with are seniors in high school and there is a LOT of talk about music
schools- many of them are finding out which schools they are getting
into. I fear that he will get swept along and then find out later that
it is not for him- though I guess that would be okay and he would
survive that. That certainly is what happened to me- college was
miserable experience in which I felt I had no choice- was in abusive
relationship and made it through by the skin of my teeth- not at all
joyful- though I have been able to come back to the same field and do
enjoy it now. I do remind him that he always has the choice to stop or
change - which sometimes makes him mad- maybe it insults his
intelligence. It is just that I didn't know I had a choice at that age
and it is new to me to be going through this stage with him- of getting
serious about a possible life direction and being very affected by the
predetermined path that exists out there. It is like a big magnet- very
attractive in many ways- but not the only way though those involved may
think so.

Is is a challenge for me to stay here and now and not get excited about
possibilities for the future- and to know how much to seek out
opportunities. He may prefer opportunities which are more difficult to
find in a small town - there are certain mainstream things that are
easily accessible. What he really LOVED most of all was playing with a
jazz/funk group of high school kids - he was asked to substitute
recently when the bass player was on vacation. Networking is not always
easy for him- he is younger than most of the musicians he enjoys
playing
with and that he feels are at his level of commitment and proficiency-
so a social aspect enters into it- he doesn't feel comfortable taking
initiative. It is easy just to show up at an audition that is arranged
by an adult and play. It is much 'easier' for me to register him for an
orchestra audition that to support him in creating a small group
playing
music he loves- though I certainly will and can do both or either.

Anyway- does anyone have any thoughts or have had any similar
experiences that would be able to offer any suggestions? I guess I just
want to be held accountable to radical unschooling principles on this
so
please point out anything that seems strange in my thinking. I fear
that
I am being swept away- we get SO much positive feedback about his music
and I feel so happy about it and so proud and excited for him that I
fear my ability to maintain sanity especially in contact with the
insanity of other adults. Also I hang back from fully embracing a
mainstream path.

Heather

hbmccarty

Yes, though I know like I am he is very swayed by other's opinions.
Though having conversations with him about it usually helps him find
himself in the midst of this. Doing what I thought I should or taking
the opinions of others too seriously has gotten me into a lot of bad
places in my life. I fear for him is this way though I know in the end
he is strong enough to make his own decision- as I always am, too!

Heather


brad jones wrote:
>
> From what I understand about unschooling, it is all about trusting
> your son at this point to decide what he wants to do in this
> situation. Do you trust he'll do ok?
>
>

hbmccarty

This is great, Kelly. It really helps put it in perspective. We can get
a little dizzy sometimes- fun dizzy - but I want to be careful to stay
in the present, too.

Last year my son was considering going on tour playing at Magic
tournaments as a career option but now is hardly playing at all. He
wants to spend his money on other things.

It is fun to speculate about his future- his dad especially tends to go
in that direction. I find myself often trying to de-emphasize that
aspect in the household and leave it to my son to take the lead with
those ideas. Not everything has to go somewhere- not every thought or
action has some greater purpose - or not one we can see, anyway. My
husband seems to create his own picture of what should be happening or
what the best path is that to me is totally confusing and besides the
point. I want to enjoy what is going on now and give my son the space to
do that too. It does seem natural for him to see what others are doing
and to try on different ideas- to go in one direction or another for a
awhile. Right now it is music school. We went to a faculty recital at
the college at which his teacher played with the trumpet professor -
also some graduates of the music program. Pretty interesting view of
academia and graduates who are finding their way doing various things.
Lots ways to go even with the field of music. We have a lot of different
examples- have local musician friends who make a living at performing,
recording, and teaching outside the university system as well. One
friend is planning to major in drums and music therapy- wow!

My daughter is making a whole lot of little fuzzy stuffed bears right
now- another adult asked her what the purpose was yesterday- what she
will do with them. She is just having so much fun making them that she
wants to keep doing it! Doesn't need a purpose- that is hard for many
adults to understand.

I am enjoying myself so much doing things that are just about doing
them- without it having to go somewhere- when I make things people are
always asking me if I am going to sell them. Maybe I'll just have a
million, or just give them away one day when I want to make space for a
new project!

Heather


kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> I will tell you that I was in a similar boat. Cameron played drums.
>
> His interest has now waned, but (as with all of Cameron's passions!
> <G>) it was ALL-CONSUMING at one time. <g>
>
> We assumed (as we have with all of his passions) that this would
> probably be his career. Doesn't look like it now. Maybe his new
> backpacking/camping passion will be his career. <BWG>
>
> *I* ALWAYS get excited about Cam's future. It always looks so cool! <g>
> Magic, film-making. drumming---now outdoor leadership----it all looks
> cool!
>
>
> Anyway....I think that, if he *knows* he can stop at any time, he'll be
> fine. I'd let him pursue as long and as hard as he wants to. He may
> make a few wrong turns and bad decisions, but each one will be a good
> learning-take. As long as he knows you're right there, it'll be fine.
>
> If he's ever near SC, we'd love to have him come jam!
>
>
>
>

rpindc04

I'm rather new to unschooling. I was a musician for years, with both
the love of it, and the history of being pushed into it. One thought,
that I hope is radical unschooly enough -

I hear that your son might being being pushed by his teacher to do
something the teacher has some designs on, rather than what might be
best for your son. Your son is in a pretty heady place, being so
talented, with older and professional musicians seeing his talent.
There is much to be learned by crossing genre's. This could be part
of the attraction of the orchestral gig, and the attraction of this
teacher. I wonder if you can talk with your son and help him explore
why he wants to do the orchestral gig; help him think through the
pros and cons. I think of it as helping him (and you) get grounded.
And I think of it as your being a choice-coach, or an agent (like a
true musician's agent), helping his find his clarity, which can be
obscured in these heady, teenage times. Going on a search for truth
in the (joyful) jungle of positive feedback, pride, desire, love of
music, excitement, social pulls, ...

Congratulations for raising such a remarkable son.


Robbin





--- In [email protected], hbmccarty <hbmccarty@...>
wrote:
>
> My 15 yr old son has been very interested in music since he was
about
> 11. He began by exploring on his own, listening, playing with tab
and by
> ear, and has had various lessons and experiences of an informal
nature
> until last summer. We live in a small college town. He mainly plays
> upright and electric bass and there arelimited options for mentors
on
> the upright bass. One college has a reputable music department and
the
> professor of bass there agreed to take on my son as a regular
student.
> He is a very interesting person, a composer/performer across
genres, and
> teaches a method that emphasizes ergonomics and comfort to extend
the
> range and improve sound quality. I think we are all a bit in awe of
> him. He treats my son as he does the undergrads he teaches- he
expects
> a lot and pushes him to perfect technique. My son has said he will
do
> anything that this teacher says- I think because he really wants to
play
> as well as possible and has a lot of respect for this teacher's
ability
> to help him do that. They work on a lot of theory and writing and
> playing jazz lines, transcribing, as well as scales and working at
what
> seems like high speed through a series that emphasizes classical
pieces.
> My son enjoys a lot of it but some of it has become what seems like
> work. He sets aside at least a couple of hours a day for preparing
for
> these lessons 5 days a week plus a day for a lesson. In addition he
> plays keyboard and acoustic guitar and electric guitar "informally"
and
> performs with various groups with other young people both
independently
> and with the local high school. This weekend we heard him singing
in his
> room- one of his bands needs a singer and he has decided to give it
a
> try. It is pretty exciting to be a witness to his journey- and it
is
> pure joy listening to him play.
>
> However, I feel like we are entering upon dangerous territory where
his
> own desires might get confused with those of his teacher and other
> adults. The teacher suggested that he play in a youth orchestra-
which
> involves an hour drive each way once a week every Sunday. He
prefers to
> play jazz, funk, rock, and listens to a lot of hip hop. The
classical
> pieces are challenging for him but he doesn't really usually enjoy
> classical music to listen to. He is thinking about it. He has taken
on
> other large commitments to perform and then felt really bored with
all
> the rehearsals- most recently with the high school musical. The
music
> was not challenging enough or of a type he prefers- anyway he had
made
> the decision and then regretted it but the consequences of quitting
> weren't desirable either.
>
> I am feeling a little worried about maintaining the absolute that
this
> is about our son and what he wants rather than trying to please
this
> teacher and other adults involved. I often remind my husband of
this. I
> trust my son to let us know when/if he is ready to make a change
but I
> guess I am just nervous as it seems so schooly. Several kids he
plays
> with are seniors in high school and there is a LOT of talk about
music
> schools- many of them are finding out which schools they are
getting
> into. I fear that he will get swept along and then find out later
that
> it is not for him- though I guess that would be okay and he would
> survive that. That certainly is what happened to me- college was
> miserable experience in which I felt I had no choice- was in
abusive
> relationship and made it through by the skin of my teeth- not at
all
> joyful- though I have been able to come back to the same field and
do
> enjoy it now. I do remind him that he always has the choice to stop
or
> change - which sometimes makes him mad- maybe it insults his
> intelligence. It is just that I didn't know I had a choice at that
age
> and it is new to me to be going through this stage with him- of
getting
> serious about a possible life direction and being very affected by
the
> predetermined path that exists out there. It is like a big magnet-
very
> attractive in many ways- but not the only way though those involved
may
> think so.
>
> Is is a challenge for me to stay here and now and not get excited
about
> possibilities for the future- and to know how much to seek out
> opportunities. He may prefer opportunities which are more difficult
to
> find in a small town - there are certain mainstream things that are
> easily accessible. What he really LOVED most of all was playing
with a
> jazz/funk group of high school kids - he was asked to substitute
> recently when the bass player was on vacation. Networking is not
always
> easy for him- he is younger than most of the musicians he enjoys
playing
> with and that he feels are at his level of commitment and
proficiency-
> so a social aspect enters into it- he doesn't feel comfortable
taking
> initiative. It is easy just to show up at an audition that is
arranged
> by an adult and play. It is much 'easier' for me to register him
for an
> orchestra audition that to support him in creating a small group
playing
> music he loves- though I certainly will and can do both or either.
>
> Anyway- does anyone have any thoughts or have had any similar
> experiences that would be able to offer any suggestions? I guess I
just
> want to be held accountable to radical unschooling principles on
this so
> please point out anything that seems strange in my thinking. I fear
that
> I am being swept away- we get SO much positive feedback about his
music
> and I feel so happy about it and so proud and excited for him that
I
> fear my ability to maintain sanity especially in contact with the
> insanity of other adults. Also I hang back from fully embracing a
> mainstream path.
>
> Heather
>