ninastjohn

Hi, I'm new here. I hoped the subject might grab someones attention. I
don't like the word 'hate' and very rarely use it, but after
homeschooling my two oldest children, ages 13 and 9, for the past 6
years, we have all become extremely frustrated with doing school at
home. We feel caged, restricted, and even though we are enrolled with
an online Christian school we are still subject to the Ministry and have
to submit weekly emails, 3 yearly portfolios and tick off as many of the
'learning outcomes' as possible. HELP!!!

I feel we need to finish this year out with the online school as we have
already spent the resources money, but after June we would like to try
something new. My daughter (age 13) has a passion for reading and
writing but doesn't want to do algebra anymore... should I let her drop
math curriculum altogether? My son (age 9) prefers hands on group
activities with his sister and me... should I drop the rigid curriculum
and let him explore his passions?

My concerns are more with myself; how do I give-up the old ways of
teaching that I have come to despise, old habits die hard! How do I
deal with my own fears that my children won't get their high school
diplomas? How will that affect their ability to get jobs in the future?
And I just know that my parents will totally disapprove of me not
teaching them in a formal manner, though I know I shouldn't care what
others think.

Reading this message back I sound like I'm on the edge of a
homeschooling nervous breakdown. I guess it really hit me 18 months ago
when my littlest blessing, who's turning two next week, was only 6
months old and my daughter stated, "Mommy, if you homeschool Gabriel
until he graduates then you'll be 54 years old!" My first thought was
'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!' followed closely by a strong feeling of dread. Am
I going to be stuck in homeschooling hell until all my good years are
gone? What about my time, my dreams, I want to explore my passions too,
I felt like screaming!

I took on homeschooling because at age 7 my then schooled daughter was a
stranger to me. She spent most of the day at school, would come home
and go straight out to play with the neighbors kids, have dinner and
shortly after go to bed. I missed her, and also she was bored at
school. There were other major contributing factors like I wanted to
teach her from a Christian world view, her teacher complained repeatedly
to me that Leah answered all the questions in class and that I'd have to
tell her to stop so other kids could have a turn at answering, and some
school safety issues. Homeschooling was a decision we made as a family.
I want to do what is right for my children but need a confidence boost.

Can someone with unschooling experience tell me that everything is going
to be okay and push me in the right direction?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 15, 2008, at 11:51 PM, ninastjohn wrote:

> for the past 6
> years, we have all become extremely frustrated with doing school at
> home.

Really, it's no wonder. School wasn't designed to do at home. It's a
*compromise* in how children learn so that the minimum level of
education of the masses can be raised cheaply. It's production line
education designed to be administered to 30 kids by one teacher.

It's really a very poor, inefficient way for an *individual* to
learn. It's hard. It takes a lot of time. But it can be done to 30
kids at once. We assume that schools are using the best methods
possible for kids to learn. But they aren't. They're trying to meet
school needs: cheap and accountable.

Real learning needs to be individualized so it goes at the child's
pace, through the child's interests. Real learning is about the child
pulling the world in, not about pushing what we think is important in.

> My daughter (age 13) has a passion for reading and
> writing but doesn't want to do algebra anymore... should I let her
> drop
> math curriculum altogether?

Yes.

And it will make you nervous!

Unschooling does not resemble school at all. It will look like she's
doing no math at all. You will get very little feedback that she's
learning. That will drive you nuts!

And that's why these lists exist. To help people gain the confidence
that even though they aren't seeing what resembles school learning,
that learning is indeed taking place.

I have rants about school math ;-) Truly profound mathematical
learning comes from encountering numbers in real life and wanting to
get information you want and need so figuring out ways to manipulate
them.

School math is a lot like learning grammar and vocabulary of a
language you've never heard spoken. The *hope* is that by the end,
kids will understand the language. More often than not, they just
hate the language and want to avoid it.

If you go here:

http://www.joyfullyrejoycing.com/

and scroll down the left side there's a few pages on math and school
math.

> My son (age 9) prefers hands on group
> activities with his sister and me... should I drop the rigid
> curriculum
> and let him explore his passions?

Curriculum is very comforting. We can see the learning. Or what we
*think* is learning. We see them spitting skills and facts back. But
is it retained? I sat through hours and hours of history in school
and I know the majority of what I know about history came from living
life and following interests. My history knowledge looks very little
like school knowledge. And yet it has served me quite well for what
*I* want to do.

The problem with schooling is that we get the idea that this
knowledge can't be learned outside of school. But if it doesn't exist
outside of school, then why do they need it! ;-)

The artificial way schools teach the information doesn't exist
outside of schools. But the information is there and kids use it and
pick it up. It *doesn't* look like school learning. Unschoolers can't
see it going in. We can't tests their knowledge. But occasionally the
kids do give us feedback that surprising things are going on! ;-)
That's the frustrating thing about unschooling and one of the reasons
why the lists exist, for unschoolers to reassure others that kids do
learn even when it doesn't look like school. They go onto college if
they want, get jobs, become decent citizens. Even better they're
decent responsible people -- even during the teen years :-)

> My concerns are more with myself; how do I give-up the old ways of
> teaching that I have come to despise, old habits die hard!

It's a rare person that can just turn their back on schoolish ways
and embrace unschooling! That's the hard part for nearly everyone.

I mean, when we're in school, and their telling us that all these
hours of boring pointless work really is important, and we have no
choice but to do it for the next 12 years, what options do we have?

Give up? Some do. Some kids commit suicide.

Rebel and say "You're full of it!" Some do. They become angry
(because they see the truth!) and do whatever is in their power to
fight back. (And when adults do the same and fight for what they
think is right we cheer! When kids do it, we call them delinquents
and drug them and put them in institutions because they refuse to see
the world the "right" way.)

And some buy into it. I mostly did (though I thought there had to be
a better way.) They convince themselves that experts know better and
just do what they're told to do to get where they're told they want
to be.

> I wanted to
> teach her from a Christian world view

There are lists for Christian unschoolers. Not that you're not
welcome here! But sometimes it can be hard to answer how unschooling
and Christianity can mesh. The Christian arguments for being the
imprinter of a child's knowledge can be so convincing, but there are
plenty of Christians who've faced those questions and found answers.

There are some links at:

http://sandradodd.com/world

Over on the right under Religious.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/16/2008 6:16:15 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ninastjohn@... writes:

Can someone with unschooling experience tell me that everything is going
to be okay and push me in the right direction?


_____________________

Have you looked into the Christian Unschooling sites? I'm very much not a
Christian, so I can't vouch for them as I have no experience with them, but I
know they exist. Maybe they would be helpful. I know of 2 yahoo groups -
Christian Unschoolers :)

Good luck!

Karen



**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "ninastjohn"
<ninastjohn@...> wrote:
>

> I guess it really hit me 18 months ago
> when my littlest blessing, who's turning two next week, was only 6
> months old and my daughter stated, "Mommy, if you homeschool Gabriel
> until he graduates then you'll be 54 years old!" My first thought was
> 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!' followed closely by a strong feeling of dread.

And how old will you be if your youngest was graduating from public
school? Remember, birthdays are great for your health. The more you
have, the longer you live! 54 isn't as old as it used to be!

But really, it sounds like you are all in a grind, and need to
deschool -- yes, if you've been homeschooling strictly it can have the
same effect on the love of learning as going to traditional school
does (and advice I gave a friend recently, which has led her to a
different path, and a sense of freedom, I think. She is in her early
50's, btw!) I realize you feel like you don't want to "waste" your
money that you've spent on your current curricular approach, but -- is
it worth dragging you all down, for the next 3 months, or however long
is left?

And you also have a 6 yr old. Over time, your 6 yr old will become
older, more independent and you will have more time and energy
available to pursue some of your own interests. Who knows, your kids
may find them equally intriguing. My son absorbed every book on
polymer clay techniques that I borrowed from the library, eagerly
trying them out. I had borrowed them for myself, but didn't mind
sharing! ;-) He no longer is particularly interested in p.c., but I
saw how he was able to read and use information when he wanted to!



Linda

Nicole Willoughby

There are lists for Christian unschoolers. Not that you're not
welcome here! But sometimes it can be hard to answer how unschooling
and Christianity can mesh. The Christian arguments for being the
imprinter of a child's knowledge can be so convincing, but there are
plenty of Christians who've faced those questions and found answers.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I highly reccomend reading Christian Unschooling : Unschooling your child in the freedom of Christ

I may be slightly off on the title but I think i have it right :)
and if you go through amazon and decide to order a second book for free shipping instead of having to pay for shipping any of the Holt books are highly reccomended.

nicole


---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

caradove

--- In [email protected], "ninastjohn"
<ninastjohn@...> wrote:

>
> I feel we need to finish this year out with the online school as we have
> already spent the resources money, but after June we would like to try
> something new.

Hi Nina,

I was catching up on the group, and your title worked, it is the only
thread I have looked at for weeks! lol, been busy with family medical
stuff.

What popped into my head as I read this was, if you ordered a meal at
an expensive restaurant, and hated the taste of it, would you push
yourself to eat it just because you spent the money already?

Take the plunge, put the curriculum away and convince yourself it is
the beginning of the summer holidays, see how that feels for a while.

All the best!
Cara

ninastjohn

Hi Cara,

Thanks for the advice below. Maybe I didn't explain myself properly :o)
My concern is not with using the curriculum because it would be a waste
of money spent, but that with being enrolled with a school I can only
spend their allocated resources money for my children if I finish the
school year sticking to their rules. I'm sure that if I pull out before
the school year ends that I'll have to pay back the money they allocated
($2000) because I didn't stick to the rules. At the moment my family
can't afford to pay back the $2000 and so I don't see any way out of
this until we have finished-up at the end of May.

Thanks and God bless,

Nina

--- In [email protected], "caradove" <caradove@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "ninastjohn"
> ninastjohn@ wrote:
>
> >
> > I feel we need to finish this year out with the online school as we
have
> > already spent the resources money, but after June we would like to
try
> > something new.
>
> Hi Nina,
>
> I was catching up on the group, and your title worked, it is the only
> thread I have looked at for weeks! lol, been busy with family medical
> stuff.
>
> What popped into my head as I read this was, if you ordered a meal at
> an expensive restaurant, and hated the taste of it, would you push
> yourself to eat it just because you spent the money already?
>
> Take the plunge, put the curriculum away and convince yourself it is
> the beginning of the summer holidays, see how that feels for a while.
>
> All the best!
> Cara
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: ninastjohn <ninastjohn@...>


I feel we need to finish this year out with the online school as we have
already spent the resources money, but after June we would like to try
something new. My daughter (age 13) has a passion for reading and
writing but doesn't want to do algebra anymore... should I let her drop
math curriculum altogether?

-=-=-=-

Yes.

-=-=-=-=-

My son (age 9) prefers hands on group
activities with his sister and me... should I drop the rigid curriculum
and let him explore his passions?

-=-=-=-

Yes.

-=-=-=-

My concerns are more with myself; how do I give-up the old ways of
teaching that I have come to despise, old habits die hard!

-=-=-=-

One moment at a time. The only one who can change how you feel and
react is *you*. Make the better choice each and every time. If you
start "teaching," STOP. Breathe and ask yourself: do I want to do this
or not? Then decide. Each time.

-=-=-=-=-=-

How do Ideal with my own fears that my children won't get their high
school
diplomas?

-=-=-=-=-

By understanding that diplomas mean absolutely nothing.

-=-==-=-

How will that affect their ability to get jobs in the future?

-=-=-=-

What? Not having a diploma?

First, find me a job that requires proof of a diploma.

-=-=-=-=-=-=

And I just know that my parents will totally disapprove of me not
teaching them in a formal manner, though I know I shouldn't care what
others think.

-==-=-=-

Y'know, your parents had an opportunity to raise you as they saw fit.
If they don't think *they* did a good enough job, that's not *your*
problem. They don't get a second chance. If they don't think you are
smart enough or wise enough to raise *your* children, maybe they should
rethink the way they chose to raise you. Maybe they could have found a
better way so that they *could* trust you to make smart and wise
decisions. If not, they need to back off while *you* explore better
ways to raise your own children. These aren't *their* children, and
*you* are an adult. It's time to BE that adult.

-=-==-=

Reading this message back I sound like I'm on the edge of a
homeschooling nervous breakdown. I guess it really hit me 18 months ago
when my littlest blessing, who's turning two next week, was only 6
months old and my daughter stated, "Mommy, if you homeschool Gabriel
until he graduates then you'll be 54 years old!" My first thought was
'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!' followed closely by a strong feeling of dread. Am
I going to be stuck in homeschooling hell until all my good years are
gone? What about my time, my dreams, I want to explore my passions too,
I felt like screaming!

-=-=-=-=-=-

So your choice to have children and homeschool them isn't about your
time, your dreams, or your passions?

You might want to rethink *why* you had children and whether you want
to spend time with them. They get older every single day. And there's
no guarantee that they will get *any* older. Decide to make the choice
to make their days with you as sweet and joyful as possible. You can
have your time, your dreams, and your passions AS WELL AS enjoy your
children. They're not exclusive.

If you choose to send them to school, will you be any *younger* than 54
when Gabriel graduates?

-=-=-=-=-

Can someone with unschooling experience tell me that everything is going
to be okay and push me in the right direction?

-=-=-=-=-=-

I have been unschooling for eight years. I have one son who is 20 and
has been unschooled since we pulled him out of school at the end of
sixth grade. I have a 12 year old son who has never been to school.

Everything is going to be OK. SHOVE!