need help answering a question
Nicole Willoughby
Ok so my mom is the type that thinks children need limits and I even fall back on my old ways at times and have to snap myself out of it :)
When we were talking about the conference one of the things she brought up was that sometimes people have to do things they dont like......suggesting that there would be sometimes I have to make them study things because they needed to .
What i replied with ........ the only time I can think of that adults do something they dont like and honestly have no choice is if a crime is being commited against them. You dont have to do things you dont like. Sometimes you choose to do things you dont like because there is benefit in it for you but there is nothing stopping you from choosing to quit . Why should this be different for children?
If someone has a better answer or more to add Id love to read it and if you dont mind forward it to her.
Thanks,
Nicole
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When we were talking about the conference one of the things she brought up was that sometimes people have to do things they dont like......suggesting that there would be sometimes I have to make them study things because they needed to .
What i replied with ........ the only time I can think of that adults do something they dont like and honestly have no choice is if a crime is being commited against them. You dont have to do things you dont like. Sometimes you choose to do things you dont like because there is benefit in it for you but there is nothing stopping you from choosing to quit . Why should this be different for children?
If someone has a better answer or more to add Id love to read it and if you dont mind forward it to her.
Thanks,
Nicole
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carnationsgalore
> When we were talking about the conference one of the things sheI hear this argument alot and have been known to spout off about it
> brought up was that sometimes people have to do things they dont
> like......suggesting that there would be sometimes I have to make
> them study things because they needed to .
> Nicole
myself. I think it's better when you aim at specifics rather than
just generals. Put it back on her. Ask her to give you a short
list of things she feels she "needs" to do that she doesn't feel she
has a choice to do or not do.
Here are some examples:
Dishes - I've heard moms say they hate doing dishes but since they
need to be done, someone has to do them. Therefore they force the
kids to do the dishes who in turn hate dishwashing. The mothers say
doing something the kids don't like is building character. Um,
okay. So they delegate the household chores they don't like and
then justify their reasons for doing so.
Do dishes really need to be washed? Are there certain dishes that
they don't like to wash or is it all dishes? Can they get a
dishwasher? Can they switch to paper cups and plates for at least
one meal a day to cut down on dishes? Can they learn to do a quick
wash when they are finished with a dish and set it to dry in a rack
rather than waiting until the entire sink is full? Can they ask for
help and cut the job in half or thirds? For example, I'll do the
glasses, someone else can do the plates, someone else the
silverware. Can they make the chore more fun by turning on the
radio or having someone sit in the kitchen with them to keep them
company?
Do you get the idea? One thing that unschooling has taught me is
that there are a myriad number of ways at looking at something.
Alot of what we feel is necessary are still really choices. And
even if something is truly necessary but not necessarily liked, we
can still perhaps find a way to get through it.
And last, she feels that kids need to study some things that are
necessary? What is an absolutely necessary thing to study?
Unschooling groups like this one are great resources to learn a new
way of looking at life. Thank goodness I found my way back!
Beth M.
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Nicole Willoughby <cncnawilloughby@...>
sometimes people have to do things they dont like......suggesting that
there would be sometimes I have to make them study things because they
needed to
-=-=-=-=-
I *LOVE* this question! <bwg>
Sooo---tell me ONE thing I *have* to do. <G> Tell me one thing my
child *has* to do.
As far as studying to *prepare* for the possibility of needing to know,
how about the *probability* that she might break her hip one day. How's
she preparing for *that*? <g> My cousin Vito could break her finger. <G>
-=-=-=-=-
What i replied with ........ the only time I can think of that adults
do
something they dont like and honestly have no choice is if a crime is
being
commited against them. You dont have to do things you dont like.
Sometimes you
choose to do things you dont like because there is benefit in it for
you but
there is nothing stopping you from choosing to quit . Why should this
be
different for children?
If someone has a better answer or more to add Id love to read it and
if you
dont mind forward it to her.
-=-=-=-=-
Your answer is fine!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: Nicole Willoughby <cncnawilloughby@...>
sometimes people have to do things they dont like......suggesting that
there would be sometimes I have to make them study things because they
needed to
-=-=-=-=-
I *LOVE* this question! <bwg>
Sooo---tell me ONE thing I *have* to do. <G> Tell me one thing my
child *has* to do.
As far as studying to *prepare* for the possibility of needing to know,
how about the *probability* that she might break her hip one day. How's
she preparing for *that*? <g> My cousin Vito could break her finger. <G>
-=-=-=-=-
What i replied with ........ the only time I can think of that adults
do
something they dont like and honestly have no choice is if a crime is
being
commited against them. You dont have to do things you dont like.
Sometimes you
choose to do things you dont like because there is benefit in it for
you but
there is nothing stopping you from choosing to quit . Why should this
be
different for children?
If someone has a better answer or more to add Id love to read it and
if you
dont mind forward it to her.
-=-=-=-=-
Your answer is fine!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>
Dishes - I've heard moms say they hate doing dishes but since they
need to be done, someone has to do them. Therefore they force the
kids to do the dishes who in turn hate dishwashing. The mothers say
doing something the kids don't like is building character. Um,
okay. So they delegate the household chores they don't like and
then justify their reasons for doing so.
Do dishes really need to be washed? Are there certain dishes that
they don't like to wash or is it all dishes? Can they get a
dishwasher? Can they switch to paper cups and plates for at least
one meal a day to cut down on dishes? Can they learn to do a quick
wash when they are finished with a dish and set it to dry in a rack
rather than waiting until the entire sink is full? Can they ask for
help and cut the job in half or thirds? For example, I'll do the
glasses, someone else can do the plates, someone else the
silverware. Can they make the chore more fun by turning on the
radio or having someone sit in the kitchen with them to keep them
company?
Do you get the idea? One thing that unschooling has taught me is
that there are a myriad number of ways at looking at something.
Alot of what we feel is necessary are still really choices. And
even if something is truly necessary but not necessarily liked, we
can still perhaps find a way to get through it.
-=-=-=-=-
Even better is for Mom to do the dishes happily as a part of
gift-giving to her family.
If we can *model* that dish washing is a pleasure, our kids will get
that message, just as easily as they get the message that dish washing
is a chore to be avoided and put onto someone else.
That's the smaller picture.
In the big photo: so many adults are unhappy with the jobs they have
and whine constantly about having to go to work. What kind of message
is that sending? No one *wants* to work! What kind of craziness is
*that*?
Of course, ideally we're modeling working at a job we love. But even if
it's not the dream job, modeling joy at having a job and pride in that
job is a real gift to our kids. We can CHOOSE to do that.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>
Dishes - I've heard moms say they hate doing dishes but since they
need to be done, someone has to do them. Therefore they force the
kids to do the dishes who in turn hate dishwashing. The mothers say
doing something the kids don't like is building character. Um,
okay. So they delegate the household chores they don't like and
then justify their reasons for doing so.
Do dishes really need to be washed? Are there certain dishes that
they don't like to wash or is it all dishes? Can they get a
dishwasher? Can they switch to paper cups and plates for at least
one meal a day to cut down on dishes? Can they learn to do a quick
wash when they are finished with a dish and set it to dry in a rack
rather than waiting until the entire sink is full? Can they ask for
help and cut the job in half or thirds? For example, I'll do the
glasses, someone else can do the plates, someone else the
silverware. Can they make the chore more fun by turning on the
radio or having someone sit in the kitchen with them to keep them
company?
Do you get the idea? One thing that unschooling has taught me is
that there are a myriad number of ways at looking at something.
Alot of what we feel is necessary are still really choices. And
even if something is truly necessary but not necessarily liked, we
can still perhaps find a way to get through it.
-=-=-=-=-
Even better is for Mom to do the dishes happily as a part of
gift-giving to her family.
If we can *model* that dish washing is a pleasure, our kids will get
that message, just as easily as they get the message that dish washing
is a chore to be avoided and put onto someone else.
That's the smaller picture.
In the big photo: so many adults are unhappy with the jobs they have
and whine constantly about having to go to work. What kind of message
is that sending? No one *wants* to work! What kind of craziness is
*that*?
Of course, ideally we're modeling working at a job we love. But even if
it's not the dream job, modeling joy at having a job and pride in that
job is a real gift to our kids. We can CHOOSE to do that.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
Nicole Willoughby
lol ..... first thing i thought when I started reading this is but my girls come running and beg to help with the dishes!
do you guys mind if I forward this to my mom?
Nicole
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do you guys mind if I forward this to my mom?
Nicole
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carnationsgalore
> If we can *model* that dish washing is a pleasure, our kidsYes, very true! In our household, my husband and I complement one
> will get that message, just as easily as they get the message
> that dish washing is a chore to be avoided and put onto someone
> else.
another very well. It seems the things he doesn't like are the
things I don't mind and vice versa. I guess this provides good
modeling for the children because things are done in a pleasant
manner rather than accompanied with griping. In traditional
homeschool circles, I usually avoid the conversations about kids and
chores because people just don't seem to understand that we have no
need for a system, maybe I should put that word in quotes, in our
house. We have tried having chore charts in the past but they
fizzle out after just a few days. And the concept that really seems
to boggle people's minds is that my children truly don't mind doing
stuff around the house. I believe it's because I don't make it a
hard and fast rule. I'll ask them if they'd like to help me and
they can honestly tell me no without worrying about any
consequences. Most of the time they are happy to help and there are
times when they just do something they see needs doing. I love how
they find the joy in some of these tasks. They can have so much fun
cleaning windows, vacuuming and dusting.
Beth M.
guideforthree
***sometimes people have to do things they dont like......suggesting
that there would be sometimes I have to make them study things
because they needed to . ****
Let's take, for example, something like math facts. This is
something traditionally minded people claim is essential. "All kids
must learn their math facts." I majored in Mathematics in college.
I taught Algebra in the public school system (before becoming totally
fed up with the lack of respect displayed toward kids). I don't know
my math facts. I've found that the ability to immediately spout the
answer to 7x8 is not only unneccessary in life, but also unnecesary
in math.
I'm sure you can find a plethora of examples of people like me who
can function quite well without knowing things that some would
claim "must" be known.
I find it somewhat amusing that my 10yo understands a concept so many
adults have trouble wrapping their minds around. If posed with the
question, "What happens when you grow up and find you haven't learned
something you needed to learn?" his response is "I'll learn it
then."
tina
that there would be sometimes I have to make them study things
because they needed to . ****
Let's take, for example, something like math facts. This is
something traditionally minded people claim is essential. "All kids
must learn their math facts." I majored in Mathematics in college.
I taught Algebra in the public school system (before becoming totally
fed up with the lack of respect displayed toward kids). I don't know
my math facts. I've found that the ability to immediately spout the
answer to 7x8 is not only unneccessary in life, but also unnecesary
in math.
I'm sure you can find a plethora of examples of people like me who
can function quite well without knowing things that some would
claim "must" be known.
I find it somewhat amusing that my 10yo understands a concept so many
adults have trouble wrapping their minds around. If posed with the
question, "What happens when you grow up and find you haven't learned
something you needed to learn?" his response is "I'll learn it
then."
tina
Debra Rossing
Rather than answer her directly, answer her question with a question:
what things is she referring to? Make her get specific because,
generally, you don't "have to" do much of anything really - there are
choices that most people make most of the time and often don't realize
it's a choice but that doesn't change that they are indeed choices.
You don't even have to eat BUT the consequences are not very nice. You
don't "have to" work, wash dishes, do laundry, cook dinner, clean
bathrooms, ....BUT the consequences might not be what you want, so you
do them. For instance, you don't have to wash dishes - you can eat out
every meal (or eat only pre made ready to eat foods - for instance,
granola bars for breakfast); you can use paper/plastic plates, bowls,
cups, utensils; you can get new dishes every few weeks (whenever you run
out); you could even just leave the dishes in the sink for weeks on end;
get a dishwasher (either the mechanical kind or the paid housekeeper
kind) and probably other options as well BUT there's a consequence (or
two) to the choices - it costs money, uses resources (paper/plastic non
recyclables), perhaps bugs, smell, mess, etc. You might not LIKE doing
the dishes BUT it is a CHOICE to do it (and there are ways to make it
less bothersome - I use a dish soap with orange oil because it's so
refreshing and uplifting, I'll often light a small candle on the
windowsill by the sink, and maybe put on some music nearby; DH and I
trade back rubs too - if I'm doing the dishes, he stops by and rubs my
back while I work and vice versa; sometimes DS will hang out nearby and
we'll chat - I have fond memories of long conversations with my mom
while she washed and I dried).
The other side of that is that people DO lots of things they don't like
*in order to* reach a goal of their own CHOOSING. I know several
triathletes here at work and one of them chose to learn how to swim in
order to compete - imagine going back in your early 30s to learn how to
swim after a lifetime of not swimming - it wasn't necessarily easy or
something he would have otherwise chosen BUT he had a goal - compete in
a triathlon just to do it (he had no plans of getting close to winning,
he just wanted to do it for himself). I'm not all that tickled about
sticking my fingers to draw blood daily BUT my goal of being as healthy
as possible as long as possible, with fewest complications and
medications means that, as a diabetic, I stick my finger and watch my
food intake and get 20-30 minutes of cardio exercise (exercise bike or
treadmill) at least 5 of 7 days per week. No one is making me do that
(and I've even disagreed with my endocrinologist about taking certain
meds) BUT I *choose* to do what it takes to avoid diabetic complications
(loss of sight, kidneys, nerve function in extremities which usually
leads to amputations, heart attack, stroke, etc).
Deb
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what things is she referring to? Make her get specific because,
generally, you don't "have to" do much of anything really - there are
choices that most people make most of the time and often don't realize
it's a choice but that doesn't change that they are indeed choices.
You don't even have to eat BUT the consequences are not very nice. You
don't "have to" work, wash dishes, do laundry, cook dinner, clean
bathrooms, ....BUT the consequences might not be what you want, so you
do them. For instance, you don't have to wash dishes - you can eat out
every meal (or eat only pre made ready to eat foods - for instance,
granola bars for breakfast); you can use paper/plastic plates, bowls,
cups, utensils; you can get new dishes every few weeks (whenever you run
out); you could even just leave the dishes in the sink for weeks on end;
get a dishwasher (either the mechanical kind or the paid housekeeper
kind) and probably other options as well BUT there's a consequence (or
two) to the choices - it costs money, uses resources (paper/plastic non
recyclables), perhaps bugs, smell, mess, etc. You might not LIKE doing
the dishes BUT it is a CHOICE to do it (and there are ways to make it
less bothersome - I use a dish soap with orange oil because it's so
refreshing and uplifting, I'll often light a small candle on the
windowsill by the sink, and maybe put on some music nearby; DH and I
trade back rubs too - if I'm doing the dishes, he stops by and rubs my
back while I work and vice versa; sometimes DS will hang out nearby and
we'll chat - I have fond memories of long conversations with my mom
while she washed and I dried).
The other side of that is that people DO lots of things they don't like
*in order to* reach a goal of their own CHOOSING. I know several
triathletes here at work and one of them chose to learn how to swim in
order to compete - imagine going back in your early 30s to learn how to
swim after a lifetime of not swimming - it wasn't necessarily easy or
something he would have otherwise chosen BUT he had a goal - compete in
a triathlon just to do it (he had no plans of getting close to winning,
he just wanted to do it for himself). I'm not all that tickled about
sticking my fingers to draw blood daily BUT my goal of being as healthy
as possible as long as possible, with fewest complications and
medications means that, as a diabetic, I stick my finger and watch my
food intake and get 20-30 minutes of cardio exercise (exercise bike or
treadmill) at least 5 of 7 days per week. No one is making me do that
(and I've even disagreed with my endocrinologist about taking certain
meds) BUT I *choose* to do what it takes to avoid diabetic complications
(loss of sight, kidneys, nerve function in extremities which usually
leads to amputations, heart attack, stroke, etc).
Deb
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
CNC Software, Inc.
www.mastercam.com
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