Karen Swanay

Yes...as I hope I made clear, she has very few restrictions on her.
Like, she is not allowed to slam her hard toys into the 55 gallon fish
tank. But she is allowed and encouraged to eat when and what she
likes. To enjoy her baths...to scream if she feels like it. To dance
and sing as loud as she wants. Climb on things and whatever else she
wants as long as it's not dangerous.

I would like ideas on how to get the child I have now...to stop
chasing my cats and trying to grab my birds. Can someone help me do
that? I say No to her too much. Redirection isn't working. I want
an unschooling way to get her to stop touching the bird cage, and no I
can't move it my house is too small. (I hope we will move soon, and
if not I'm thinking about getting another cage that she can't touch.)
And I don't want to keep saying NO to her all the time.

TIA,
Karen

riasplace3

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
I want
> an unschooling way to get her to stop touching the bird cage,

Get a cage that hangs from the ceiling.

Ria

Karen Swanay

Cages that hang from the ceiling are too small and aren't good for the
birds. Besides this house is so old I don't think it would support
the weight. AND I'm short so servicing the cage would be very hard.
Thanks for the idea but that's not going to work. I'm thinking I can
get a larger cage that is taller or put this one on a taller stand.
So that's one option I have...I just have to find something that is
taller. Actually now that I look around I may have just the place!
Thanks for getting me thinking about different options =)

Karen

On Feb 16, 2008 8:09 PM, riasplace3 <riasplace3@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
> <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
> I want
> > an unschooling way to get her to stop touching the bird cage,
>
> Get a cage that hangs from the ceiling.
>
> Ria
>
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:12 PM, Karen Swanay wrote:

> I would like ideas on how to get the child I have now...to stop
> chasing my cats and trying to grab my birds. Can someone help me do
> that?

If there were a way to make children obey, parents would have figured
it out long ago.

Put the cage on a high shelf. On top of the refrigerator. Hang it
from the ceiling. Find some way of keeping them safe and out of her
reach.

My daughter, sweet as she is, at 16 still picks up the cats even
though she knows they don't like it. She wants to snuggle them and
she can't stop trying. There's nothing I can say or even they can say
that can stop the need in her.

Give the cats a place to run to? A tall structure to climb? A cat
door to the attic or basement or garage that she can't get into?

As with many cases of kids doing something we don't want to, it's
more helpful to think in terms of changing the environment than the
child. (Since changing the child doesn't work and just damages the
relationship!)

Joyce




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Swanay

The cats have baby gates up to keep her out of areas like the kitchen
so they have places to run to. But I'd like to see them again at some
point. I guess it's just a matter of time and waiting for them to
stop running which is exciting to her or for her to decide they are
boring. She and the dogs do fine.

I think I can move the cage higher but top of the fridge isn't safe
for the birds. I want them all to be happy and comfortable....kids
and pets.

Thanks!
Karen

On Feb 16, 2008 8:19 PM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:12 PM, Karen Swanay wrote:
>
> > I would like ideas on how to get the child I have now...to stop
> > chasing my cats and trying to grab my birds. Can someone help me do
> > that?
>
> If there were a way to make children obey, parents would have figured
> it out long ago.
>
> Put the cage on a high shelf. On top of the refrigerator. Hang it
> from the ceiling. Find some way of keeping them safe and out of her
> reach.
>
> My daughter, sweet as she is, at 16 still picks up the cats even
> though she knows they don't like it. She wants to snuggle them and
> she can't stop trying. There's nothing I can say or even they can say
> that can stop the need in her.
>
> Give the cats a place to run to? A tall structure to climb? A cat
> door to the attic or basement or garage that she can't get into?
>
> As with many cases of kids doing something we don't want to, it's
> more helpful to think in terms of changing the environment than the
> child. (Since changing the child doesn't work and just damages the
> relationship!)
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

Ren Allen

~~You don't wonder
when she cries from the depth of her soul what she is mourning.~~


Really? You really believe that bio parents just KNOW this stuff? My
gawd, I WISH I knew these things, especially about Jalen. He was BORN
with issues. Yes, born with issues and challenges I can't possibly
understand.
He has had intensity (yes, from birth) that you can't explain with his
circumstances or environment. If only it were that simple.

There is a lot of "look, MY situation is different so these principles
and ideas won't work for me" coming from your posts. Do you want ideas
for various situations or an excuse? There is nothing anyone can say
here if you've already decided it can't work in your situation.

But please, don't assume that the rest of us have some imaginary ideal
life and children. Don't assume that even those of us with bio
children can't possibly understand abuse and adoption. I was raised in
a mixed family with three adopted kids that all came from abusive
backgrounds.

You've got some challenges that will be difficult to navigate but if
you continue to see your child as someone that needs to be forced "for
her own good" it will block the view from the other side. There are
things that will be harder for you. There are issues you will deal
with that other people won't. But there is always more than two
options in any situation. At least explore some of those options with us.

I would let a child run around naked before I got into a battle over a
diaper. I would find medicine they enjoyed taking over forcing
anything down their throat. 'Course in my case it would be unusual to
even get to the medicine stage as we use herbs and the "wait and see"
approach to most sickness. Even ears.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

riasplace3

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>
> Cages that hang from the ceiling are too small and aren't good for the
> birds. Besides this house is so old I don't think it would support
> the weight. AND I'm short so servicing the cage would be very hard.

ROFLOL!!!

I KNEW you'd have reasons why it wouldn't work! In fact, that's why I
wrote it...just to see what your reasons were.

Get a nice BIG cage, and adapt it so it can hang from the ceiling. Put
a hook directly into a beam...put in several hooks for added
stability. Use a pole with a hook to lift it down and re-hang it.


> Thanks for the idea but that's not going to work.

Not likely, with that attitude.

: )
Ria

Karen Swanay

WTH? I live in a 60 yr old military house with substandard
construction, asbestos and black mold. Why is it that whatever idea
is offered MUST be workable even though no one has seen my house?
Hanging a nice big cage...that would be right at face/chest level. We
are crammed in here to begin with. AND hanging cages is NOT the
proper care for birds. But I guess that's irrelevant to everyone but
me. I'm not going to abuse my birds and make them live in bad
conditions just because. And I sure as HELL am not drilling big holes
in the ceiling knowing that I'll be inhaling asbestos fibers. Cancer
is not worth it. Might be to you but not to me. And if that's a piss
poor attitude then fine.

Karen

On Feb 17, 2008 9:54 AM, riasplace3 <riasplace3@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
> <luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
> >
> > Cages that hang from the ceiling are too small and aren't good for the
> > birds. Besides this house is so old I don't think it would support
> > the weight. AND I'm short so servicing the cage would be very hard.
>
> ROFLOL!!!
>
> I KNEW you'd have reasons why it wouldn't work! In fact, that's why I
> wrote it...just to see what your reasons were.
>
> Get a nice BIG cage, and adapt it so it can hang from the ceiling. Put
> a hook directly into a beam...put in several hooks for added
> stability. Use a pole with a hook to lift it down and re-hang it.
>
> > Thanks for the idea but that's not going to work.
>
> Not likely, with that attitude.
>
> : )
> Ria
>
>

Ren Allen

> WTH? I live in a 60 yr old military house with substandard
> construction, asbestos and black mold. Why is it that whatever idea
> is offered MUST be workable even though no one has seen my house?
> Hanging a nice big cage...that would be right at face/chest level. We
> are crammed in here to begin with. AND hanging cages is NOT the
> proper care for birds. But I guess that's irrelevant to everyone but
> me. I'm not going to abuse my birds and make them live in bad
> conditions just because. And I sure as HELL am not drilling big holes
> in the ceiling knowing that I'll be inhaling asbestos fibers. Cancer
> is not worth it. Might be to you but not to me. And if that's a piss
> poor attitude then fine.
>


Enough.
EVERY idea, EVERY suggestion is met with defensiveness and "poor me,
it can't work for my life" BS. You want ideas or you don't. Obviously,
nothing anyone says can work for YOU because you're so unique and
distressed that we can't possibly understand or be useful. JFC! If
your house is so amazingly rotten that you can't make the bird safe
from your dd, get rid of the damn bird. Get a new place to live. Let
your dd beat on the cage for all I care! Gettting rid of the bird
will make more room for the humans who are obviously CRAMMED into a
hellish space.

Make a choice. The life you have is a CHOICE. If you don't like
something, choose different. Quit posting questions to which you've
already decided any answers can't work. It's getting ridiculous.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Karen Swanay

Well here's an example of the kind of nasty postings that I'm talking
about. Get rid of my pets? Animals aren't disposable.

Move? We'll that would be lovely, perhaps you could contact the USAF
and ask them to change the rules so that we are allowed to leave? Let
me know how that goes.

I said hanging the cage wouldn't work but I have found a higher stand
to put them on. How come ALL ideas given have to automatically work
or I'm being difficult?

Karen

On Feb 17, 2008 11:35 AM, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > WTH? I live in a 60 yr old military house with substandard
> > construction, asbestos and black mold. Why is it that whatever idea
> > is offered MUST be workable even though no one has seen my house?
> > Hanging a nice big cage...that would be right at face/chest level. We
> > are crammed in here to begin with. AND hanging cages is NOT the
> > proper care for birds. But I guess that's irrelevant to everyone but
> > me. I'm not going to abuse my birds and make them live in bad
> > conditions just because. And I sure as HELL am not drilling big holes
> > in the ceiling knowing that I'll be inhaling asbestos fibers. Cancer
> > is not worth it. Might be to you but not to me. And if that's a piss
> > poor attitude then fine.
> >
>
> Enough.
> EVERY idea, EVERY suggestion is met with defensiveness and "poor me,
> it can't work for my life" BS. You want ideas or you don't. Obviously,
> nothing anyone says can work for YOU because you're so unique and
> distressed that we can't possibly understand or be useful. JFC! If
> your house is so amazingly rotten that you can't make the bird safe
> from your dd, get rid of the damn bird. Get a new place to live. Let
> your dd beat on the cage for all I care! Gettting rid of the bird
> will make more room for the humans who are obviously CRAMMED into a
> hellish space.
>
> Make a choice. The life you have is a CHOICE. If you don't like
> something, choose different. Quit posting questions to which you've
> already decided any answers can't work. It's getting ridiculous.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
>

keetry

Why can't she chase the cats or touch the birds?

I'm going to assume here that the problem is she either scares
and/or hurts the animals. If she's just wanting to feel them, then
find ways to let her do that safely. Show her how it's done gently.
Don't expect that she'll understand it and get it the first time you
show her or even the 51st time. Each child learns things on h** own
time.

Alysia

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>
> > I would like ideas on how to get the child I have now...to stop
> chasing my cats and trying to grab my birds. Can someone help me
do
> that? I say No to her too much. Redirection isn't working. I
want
> an unschooling way to get her to stop touching the bird cage, and
no I
> can't move it my house is too small. (I hope we will move soon,
and
> if not I'm thinking about getting another cage that she can't
touch.)
> And I don't want to keep saying NO to her all the time.
>
> TIA,
> Karen
>

wisdomalways5

maybe you could get rid of the animals until you have a bigger place
and then reintroduce them-

the point is looking outside the box to find something that will
work-

you tell us WHERE you can put the bird so that it is safe and your
daughter can explore without being told no.

Julie

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>
> WTH? I live in a 60 yr old military house with substandard
> construction, asbestos and black mold. Why is it that whatever
idea
> is offered MUST be workable even though no one has seen my house?
> Hanging a nice big cage...that would be right at face/chest
level. We
> are crammed in here to begin with. AND hanging cages is NOT the
> proper care for birds. But I guess that's irrelevant to everyone
but
> me. I'm not going to abuse my birds and make them live in bad
> conditions just because. And I sure as HELL am not drilling big
holes
> in the ceiling knowing that I'll be inhaling asbestos fibers.
Cancer
> is not worth it. Might be to you but not to me. And if that's a
piss
> poor attitude then fine.
>
> Karen
>
> On Feb 17, 2008 9:54 AM, riasplace3 <riasplace3@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
> > <luvbullbreeds@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cages that hang from the ceiling are too small and aren't good
for the
> > > birds. Besides this house is so old I don't think it would
support
> > > the weight. AND I'm short so servicing the cage would be very
hard.
> >
> > ROFLOL!!!
> >
> > I KNEW you'd have reasons why it wouldn't work! In fact, that's
why I
> > wrote it...just to see what your reasons were.
> >
> > Get a nice BIG cage, and adapt it so it can hang from the
ceiling. Put
> > a hook directly into a beam...put in several hooks for added
> > stability. Use a pole with a hook to lift it down and re-hang it.
> >
> > > Thanks for the idea but that's not going to work.
> >
> > Not likely, with that attitude.
> >
> > : )
> > Ria
> >
> >
>

Ren Allen

~~
Well here's an example of the kind of nasty postings that I'm talking
about. Get rid of my pets? Animals aren't disposable.~~

It's NASTY to suggest your family is more important than the animals?
Sheesh.
You know, it's up to you to decide what is going to work out of the
suggestions, but when NOTHING we suggests can work, it's a personal
issues not about ideas. You have decided before asking for advice that
nothing will work.

Do you want us to tell you how to keep your child away from the cage?
Spank her is what you'll get at many parenting sites. What the heck do
you want from this list??? Nobody knows your home or your life or what
will work or not but don't ask for advice if you're going to dismiss
it so readily. You don't need advice, you already know the answers.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

marji

At 20:12 2/16/2008, you wrote:
>I would like ideas on how to get the child I have now...to stop
>chasing my cats and trying to grab my birds. Can someone help me do
>that? I say No to her too much. Redirection isn't working. I want
>an unschooling way to get her to stop touching the bird cage, and no I
>can't move it my house is too small. (I hope we will move soon, and
>if not I'm thinking about getting another cage that she can't touch.)
>And I don't want to keep saying NO to her all the time.

I hear what you're saying! When my now-13-year-old son, Liam, was
really little he could be pretty aggressive with our old kitty. He
had no malice whatsoever, but the principle of everyone, including
our wonderful cat, being safe in the house was my biggest concern for
me. I felt it was not fair to the cat not to ensure his safety to
the best of my ability.

What I did was redirect Liam; rather than saying no, I'd find
something else that was at least as fun if not more fun to do. That
could mean getting out of the house for a few minutes or for a longer
time. Just something to change things up a bit. I also made sure
the cat had a safe place to be. And, I helped Liam find ways to love
the cat that weren't so scary for the cat. I modeled better, more
gentle ways of interacting with the cat.

After that cat passed on and we got a couple of younger cats, the
cats' safety was still a concern. I did talk to Liam about my
concerns (he was probably 6 or 7 years old at the time), not in a
punishing or shaming way. We talked about their safety and his safety
and my safety, and I asked him what he thought we should do about
making sure the cats are safe in their own home. He agreed that
everyone should be safe in the house, and he became much, much more
respectful of the cats' autonomy. Now, he is quite an advocate for the cats.

I should point out that I did consider finding another home for the
cats, even temporarily, as unthinkable to me as that was. I felt
that I needed to provide them with a safe home, and I had to be
honest with myself about whether or not I could do that. I'm glad it
never came to that, but it was on the table.

It was a process, to be sure, and I would never leave him alone with
the cat when he was little. I would never leave him alone ~ period ~
when he was little (I'm not assuming you do that, though; I'm just
telling you what *I* did).

Anyway, I hope that story helps a little.

~Marji











~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<http://www.joyfullyparenting.com/>Joyfully Parenting & Life Coaching
<http://zintz-kunkel.blogspot.com/>Our Unschooling Life (a 'blog)
Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH

The problem isn't that all ideas have to work, it's that you don't seem to see that people are suggesting thinking of something else. Nobody actually, really cares how you deal with the bird and your daughter. What they want to do is help you to see a new way to deal with the bird and your daughter, even if it isn't any way that has been suggested. If what works is giving the bird to someone who doesn't have a 3 year old chasing the bird around and freaking it out, than that is what works. If what works is drilling a hole in a beam and hanging a cage from the ceiling than that is what works. If you found a solution that wasn't suggested, more power to you. But you don't have to attack everyone for not knowing that you have an asbestos riddled house or for making suggestions that don't work. Just let those ones go, if you want to comment, say thank you, but it isn't really kind to attack people when they are spending their time helping you. Really.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com


==========

I
said
hanging
the
cage
wouldn't
work
but
I
have
found
a
higher
stand
to
put
them
on.
How
come
ALL
ideas
given
have
to
automatically
work
or
I'm
being
difficult?

Karen







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Karen Swanay wrote:

> How come ALL ideas given have to automatically work
> or I'm being difficult?

No one can hand you the solution for your unique situation. They
*can* hand you out of the box ways of viewing the problem to *help*
you get started thinking up your own solutions.

> Well here's an example of the kind of nasty postings that I'm talking
> about. Get rid of my pets? Animals aren't disposable.

If the pets are miserable at being chased and banged on, if the only
choice you can see is to say no to your daughter and create a
negative atmosphere, then from the pets and your daughter's point of
view finding peaceful homes for the pets is far better than what they
have. It's not nasty. It's humane.

*if* that's the situation. I don't think it's that bad and others
don't either. That's why lots of other out of the "change the child"
box ideas were given before resorting to an idea born of frustration.

People can only help with different ways of seeing. You have to open
your own mind and trying thinking in new ways. No one can do it for you.

Joyce




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ulrike Haupt

Hi Karen

Somehow the original posts from Yahoo come in much later than the first responses and this is one of the times where I am glad for a replier not deleting the oriiginal post. :)

Dearest, you are really into a complex situation with your little one. The cats and bird cages are just a 'symptom' of what it is all about, I guess. You really took on a BIG task with adopting this little one and you are also aware that there are more issues to be handled than you originally thought that there could be. I take off my hat for you and your courage.

Cats, birds, roads, toys, people, going in the car, eating, sleeping, changing clothes (Diapers), bathing and so on each pose a new set of conditions that you have certain expectations about and the little one has no clue what it is all about.

You know waht, I wold just try to find a balance with one issue and only then look for finding a solution for the next and leave the rest out. Cats can look after themselves. Bird cages, if they are sturdy enough should be able to protect the inhabitants in a way, Food is really a 'no matter issue' in the long run, diapers - how about letting them go and give her a no diaper, no pants time to get to enjoy her body (including some mud baths - sorry, you are still in winter time, no outside revelling in a mud pit yet. :) (Ariëlla arrived here today a mess after she had found a spot with REAL mud in and splashed it all over herself. Rain in Namibia gives the most amazing experiences for little ones! :))) But maybe something similar. a big enough bowl to sit in and play with water and toys and splashing and getting cleaned up at the same time. A poo-mess on the floor is cleaned up so easily, too. And a potty can be kept around, too.

Ariëlla is a year old now. She started walking, too and can get wherever she wants to, also to the cat food bowls, which she loves taking apart and the cats who are to lethargic to move out of the way in time. Georg gives her a slap - Little baby big cry :) and Benny endures her pulling of parts of his fur with an unconditional patience. She is learning. She is already keeping a healthy distance to Georg and shows still a lot of interest in exploring the mess around abilities with the other five cats of which some have the healthy self serving habit of staying out of her way.

OK, Ariëlla loves one of my bookcases. She just loves to pull the books out and starts nibbling on at least one of them. So I dedicated an obsolote book to her and keep that one around. When she gets near the book case I hand her her 'own' book to do with as she desires and return the other books to their place, sometimes telling her that those are MY books.

How about having LOTS of Morgan things around to give her for exploring and enjoying when she starts exploring the exciting new place she lives in now? Stuffed birds, (You get them in talking versions, too :), lots of stuffed animals (they are so cheap from the Chinese shops) magazines to take apart, books you hate (I have a few that I can't burn but they are good enough for the baby :) and so on.

As I understand this unschoolong life style it is not really about being a good mother or parent but about finding ways to respect the current needs of our children and helping them to fulfil those. For your little one I guess a BIG need is to make sense of her new environment. TALK to her all the time and tell her ALL about what she is experiencing. Even if she is non verbalizing she picks up the vibes of information and communication and Connection and love and acceptance and LOVE and acknowledgement and hope and trust that you provide all the time, which you do from the previous posts I read about your adventure. And even if I am not a proponent of 'fixing' any situation I would suggest that you learn EFT (emofree.com) and apply it in all those 'dire straights' situations that come up each day. For your own sake and for her blessed future.

OK Karen I deleted my next words because I felt that you would take umbrage again.
I wrote "Stop blaming the circumstances for all the things that don't work." Like the house and the mold and the finances or whatever. What is is. What you make of it is what you experience. You are the sole conductor of your experience. You can hate it or make peace with it. Hating it (or fighting or complaining about it) takes up so much of your valuable life energy. Is it really worth it? Isn't finding and designing workable solutions much more fun?


Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jacquie Krauskopf

I found this on another site accidently

A Few Words About Unschooling Math
by Luz Shosie
FREEDOM TO CHOOSE: Fingers & toes, pattern blocks, two by two, 4X4, narrow gauge, ruler, tape measure, scale, model, profit (loss), earn, spend, save, interest, checkbook, recipe, batting average, Captain May I? soccer, baseball, basketball, love, fault, birdie, strike, spare, first and ten, penalty box, map, compass, Pokémon, Candyland, Monopoly, Go, Chess, Sorry!, dominoes, dice, poker chips, Bridge, Crazy Eights, Go Fish, graphs, charts, Origami, mileage, knit 1 purl 2, weave, weigh, motor, engine, pulley, ratio, odds, chances, statistics, average, more or less, even, odd, yards, N scale, circumference, volume, area, score, speed limit, braking distance, fourth dimension, sixth sense, Indy 500, build, plan, rate, estimate, predict, revise, garden, yardage, height, depth, angle, trade, straight, curve, spiral, high tide, low ball, tempo, quarter note, half pound, temperature, weather forecast, bargain, budget, price, half off, plus tax, sequence, seven percent solution,
hundred percent markup, latitude, longitude, light years, escape velocity, precession of the equinoxes (oh Best Beloved), range, set, stitch, sort, size, tally, calculator, plot, dozen, gain, lose, exactly, approximately, income, borrow, allowance, loan, design, diagram, knots, beads, gear ratio, minutes, degrees, timer, computer, fathoms, grid, meters, Anno, The Number Devil, half pipe, quarter turn, double time, full bore, safe speed, turning radius, blocks, stacking, nesting, measure up, scale down, abacus, credit, debit, limit, infinity, first class, third rate, equal share, short shrift, waxing, waning, phase, rhythm, balance, cycle, magnitude, perspective, value, graph, apogee, perigee, frequency, rotation, revolution, dollars, cents, pennies, wooden nickels, full deck, full house, double helix, time zone, millennium, program, binary, generation, epoch, era, nano second, code, puzzle, calendar, fiscal year, progression, midpoint, watts, lumens, horsepower, ohms,
Great Circle Route, 52 Pickup, '55 Chevy, Hundredth Monkey, altitude, make change, Lego, shopping, Tangrams, Battleships, Fibonacci series, checkers, speed, height, width, length, volume, latitude, sphere, output, displacement, schedule, time limit, collection, add up, count down, age, four score, last full measure, census, Are we there yet? dance, a bushel and a peck, postage, efficient operation, elegant solution, gigabytes, google, Powers of Ten, increase, decrease, supply & demand, links, contour lines, Great Divide, Bingo! group, air pressure, count down, stock market, daily log, rent, bills, discretionary income, arc, geometric proportions, geologic time, navigation, Dewey Decimal System #510, stone circle, dosage, grams/ounces, meters/feet, 16 mm, 22 caliber, shutter speed, f stop, 20 pound test, dot-to-dot, orienteering, yeild, squared, low bid, etc. etc. etc.


---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Karen Swanay

OK Karen I deleted my next words because I felt that you would take
umbrage again.
I wrote "Stop blaming the circumstances for all the things that don't
work." Like the house and the mold and the finances or whatever. What
is is. What you make of it is what you experience. You are the sole
conductor of your experience. You can hate it or make peace with it.
Hating it (or fighting or complaining about it) takes up so much of
your valuable life energy. Is it really worth it? Isn't finding and
designing workable solutions much more fun?

Blissings
Ulrike
from Namibia - somewhere in Africa

**********************************************

Ah, the only blaming I did was to the specific solution of hanging the
cage, and when I was told I was being difficult. Life is what it is.
Perhaps other members of this list have the ability to design their
lives as they wish and can live anywhere or would even toss the
animals out because they see pets as disposable toys. I had already
posted that I had a new look around my house and it's going to take a
lot of shuffling of furniture but I can move the cage to a better spot
for her and them. But it will work out just fine...and I don't have
to drill supports or inhale asbestos to do it. I thank you for your
help and your lovely post. The diaper issue has also been solved but
once it warms up she will be spending a lot of time at the beach =)

Karen

Karen Swanay

Yep yep. And I think that's just where it's going to stay really.
Redirecting over and over until the cats figure out to stop running.
She's not really dangerous to them....now the birds are very small and
she has to be really watched with them. I do show her how to be
gentle with them, well one is handlable, the other bites everyone so
really it's just the one. And when she wants to pet the bird she will
grab my hand and put it on hers to have me help her pet the bird. But
I want her away from the cage because she touches the bottom and
although I keep it clean, I'm worried about her ingesting nasties from
the cage you know? Tomorrow I'm going to play furniture checkers to
get the cage moved and I think it will fix the problem completely.

The cats are able to escape over the baby gates so they aren't in any
real danger but it would be nice to see them once in a while you know?
I also never leave her alone if she's awake. When she's napping I
escape to a quick shower or put laundry away etc...otherwise I'm with
her the whole time.

Thanks for your story and I have a Liam too. =) He's 9.

Karen

On Feb 17, 2008 11:56 AM, marji <marji@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> At 20:12 2/16/2008, you wrote:
> >I would like ideas on how to get the child I have now...to stop
> >chasing my cats and trying to grab my birds. Can someone help me do
> >that? I say No to her too much. Redirection isn't working. I want
> >an unschooling way to get her to stop touching the bird cage, and no I
> >can't move it my house is too small. (I hope we will move soon, and
> >if not I'm thinking about getting another cage that she can't touch.)
> >And I don't want to keep saying NO to her all the time.
>
> I hear what you're saying! When my now-13-year-old son, Liam, was
> really little he could be pretty aggressive with our old kitty. He
> had no malice whatsoever, but the principle of everyone, including
> our wonderful cat, being safe in the house was my biggest concern for
> me. I felt it was not fair to the cat not to ensure his safety to
> the best of my ability.
>
> What I did was redirect Liam; rather than saying no, I'd find
> something else that was at least as fun if not more fun to do. That
> could mean getting out of the house for a few minutes or for a longer
> time. Just something to change things up a bit. I also made sure
> the cat had a safe place to be. And, I helped Liam find ways to love
> the cat that weren't so scary for the cat. I modeled better, more
> gentle ways of interacting with the cat.
>
> After that cat passed on and we got a couple of younger cats, the
> cats' safety was still a concern. I did talk to Liam about my
> concerns (he was probably 6 or 7 years old at the time), not in a
> punishing or shaming way. We talked about their safety and his safety
> and my safety, and I asked him what he thought we should do about
> making sure the cats are safe in their own home. He agreed that
> everyone should be safe in the house, and he became much, much more
> respectful of the cats' autonomy. Now, he is quite an advocate for the cats.
>
> I should point out that I did consider finding another home for the
> cats, even temporarily, as unthinkable to me as that was. I felt
> that I needed to provide them with a safe home, and I had to be
> honest with myself about whether or not I could do that. I'm glad it
> never came to that, but it was on the table.
>
> It was a process, to be sure, and I would never leave him alone with
> the cat when he was little. I would never leave him alone ~ period ~
> when he was little (I'm not assuming you do that, though; I'm just
> telling you what *I* did).
>
> Anyway, I hope that story helps a little.
>
> ~Marji
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> <http://www.joyfullyparenting.com/>Joyfully Parenting & Life Coaching
> <http://zintz-kunkel.blogspot.com/>Our Unschooling Life (a 'blog)
> Live Fully ~ Live JoyFully!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

Christy Mahoney

> Move? We'll that would be lovely, perhaps you could contact the USAF
> and ask them to change the rules so that we are allowed to leave?
Let
> me know how that goes.
>

Another of many exaggerations. You have a choice about where you
live. You are not required to live on base. My dh is also in the Air
Force. You don't have to sign any contract, and you can move off the
base whenever you like. You have a choice. You made the choice to
adopt an abused child. You have other children and several pets, and
you're all "crammed" into a small, horrible house, yet you still made
that choice. So why complain so much about all your unique
circumstances and lack of money to buy toys and so many other things?
You chose to get the pets and adopt the child.

And I seriously doubt that you can do nothing about government housing
that has asbestos problems.

-Christy

keetry

When we lived on base in Hawaii, there was one family that had birds
outside in cages in the carport. A friend of mine who got cats but
couldn't have them in the house (on base, again) because everyone
was allergic, built an outdoor enclosure in the carport for the
cats.

Even if it's not helping Karen, I'm getting a lot out of these
practice problem solving runs.

Alysia

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>
> WTH? I live in a 60 yr old military house with substandard
> construction, asbestos and black mold. Why is it that whatever
idea
> is offered MUST be workable even though no one has seen my house?
> Hanging a nice big cage...that would be right at face/chest
level. We
> are crammed in here to begin with. AND hanging cages is NOT the
> proper care for birds. But I guess that's irrelevant to everyone
but
> me. I'm not going to abuse my birds and make them live in bad
> conditions just because. And I sure as HELL am not drilling big
holes
> in the ceiling knowing that I'll be inhaling asbestos fibers.
Cancer
> is not worth it. Might be to you but not to me. And if that's a
piss
> poor attitude then fine.
>
> Karen
>
> On Feb 17, 2008 9:54 AM, riasplace3 <riasplace3@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
> > <luvbullbreeds@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cages that hang from the ceiling are too small and aren't good
for the
> > > birds. Besides this house is so old I don't think it would
support
> > > the weight. AND I'm short so servicing the cage would be very
hard.
> >
> > ROFLOL!!!
> >
> > I KNEW you'd have reasons why it wouldn't work! In fact, that's
why I
> > wrote it...just to see what your reasons were.
> >
> > Get a nice BIG cage, and adapt it so it can hang from the
ceiling. Put
> > a hook directly into a beam...put in several hooks for added
> > stability. Use a pole with a hook to lift it down and re-hang it.
> >
> > > Thanks for the idea but that's not going to work.
> >
> > Not likely, with that attitude.
> >
> > : )
> > Ria
> >
> >
>

keetry

Are you required to live on the base?

Pets aren't disposable but they aren't more important than children.
I had to get rid of my dog when my dh deployed and I was left to
care for a teenager and a 3 year old while I was pregnant. I just
didn't have anything left for the dog and he was suffering because
of it. Giving him to another family was the best thing I could do
for him. I still had my cat at that point. However, after having my
baby, while my dh still had been deployed for 6 months and still had
another 6 months to go, and the cat still had an ear infection that
I couldn't treat properly because I didn't have the time or energy
or even memory to give her meds on time, I gave the cat to my mom.

Alysia

--- In [email protected], "Karen Swanay"
<luvbullbreeds@...> wrote:
>
> Well here's an example of the kind of nasty postings that I'm
talking
> about. Get rid of my pets? Animals aren't disposable.
>
> Move? We'll that would be lovely, perhaps you could contact the
USAF
> and ask them to change the rules so that we are allowed to leave?
Let
> me know how that goes.
>
> I said hanging the cage wouldn't work but I have found a higher
stand
> to put them on. How come ALL ideas given have to automatically
work
> or I'm being difficult?
>
> Karen
>
>

Alison Broadbent

> .........count down, stock market, daily log, rent, bills,
> discretionary income, arc, geometric proportions, geologic time,
> navigation, Dewey Decimal System #510, stone circle, dosage, grams/
> ounces, meters/feet, 16 mm, 22 caliber, shutter speed, f stop, 20
> pound test, dot-to-dot, orienteering, yeild, squared, low bid, etc.
> etc. etc.

I've always thought the expression "to unschool math or anything" was
an oxymoron.

That's a great list of things but to limit them to "math", to me,
limits the experience and then the fluidity and joy of it. Who knows
whether an encounter w/ geologic time will translate to "learning
math". Maybe it will be the stepping off place to a sci-fi movie
enactment of love eternal. Really who knows. We never do and when
we don't, we get to discover along the way too.

Alison

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