asmb65

Hi Everyone,

I have not posted here in ages but have sporadically lurked. My boys
are almost 6 and 3 and for the moment we are unschooling. Dh is not
quite on board yet. Technically, ds1 should be in grade one but
luckily dh had no problem not sending ds1 in what would have been his
kindergarten year since ds is a November baby. For this year, I am
buying time by appeasing dh by sending ds1 two afternoons a week to a
woman who takes about 7 kids in her home for what is essentially a
Waldorf-based program. I see it as an activity which ds enjoys and dh
sees it as school. Hopefully by the time next year rolls around dh
will be on board with not institutionalizing our kids.

Buuuut I am writing since I'd be really appreciative of hearing of
how other parents with really intense kids manage to replenish
themselves and make sure everyone else in the home's needs and wants
are being met. Our oldest is bright and very busy. He needs to be
with us (and that's me mostly) all of the time. He does not really
play on his own at all and needs to be monitored closely when he is
playing with his younger brother. We have gone through really smooth
phases with him where I can actually eat breakfast before noon
sometimes, get out of my pajamas and maybe even get a cup of tea. But
there are many days that those things are not possible because I am
meeting his endless needs and/or protecting ds2 simply by being right
there.

Outside of the home he is so easy since he is a major observer. He
just is so busy soaking everything up. So I do my best to get out of
the house as much as possible. The difficulty is my youngest would
love to be home more to play with his toys and gets tired from all
the constant "field trips".

I'd love to hear any suggestions. We're going through a particularly
challenging spell right now and dh and I are getting drained.

Cheers,
Susan

Meredith

Susan, I'm pulling out two statements you made in hopes of getting
you to expand a bit more... they seem somewhat contradictory at face
value:

--- In [email protected], "asmb65" <asmb65@...>
wrote:
>He needs to be
> with us (and that's me mostly) all of the time. He does not really
> play on his own at all and needs to be monitored closely when he
is
> playing with his younger brother.

***and***
> Outside of the home he is so easy since he is a major observer. He
> just is so busy soaking everything up.

It sounds like he needs a lot of stimulation, but its not really
clear what kind - is he really social? physical? you say he "soaks
everything up" - can you bring more things into the home for him
to "soak up"? Or doesn "going out" meet some other needs of his -
social, maybe, since he needs to be with you alot when he's home? Or
is there a caretaking issue going on? Are you better at meeting his
needs proactively when y'all are out? Alternately, does he have more
chances to be independent when y'all are out?

Anyway, I'd look hard at what the 6yo is getting from being out and
see if you can bring more of that home. At the same time, I'd look
for ways to make "going out" more comfortable for the 3yo - making a
cozy nest in the car, for example, or bringing a tiny play-tent so
he can have somewhere to retreat to. Maybe a portable game or dvd
player so he can have some down time while the other is exploring.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

asmb65

Hmmm, it's hard to describe clearly a child because we're all so
complex aren't we? Sam is one of those kids who didn't walk or talk
until very "late", needed to be in physical contact with me a lot,
had great separation anxiety, nursed constantly but at the same time
was always fascinated with everything going on around us. He'd sit in
my lap or the sling and watch the world go by. If a stranger spoke to
him, he'd blink rapidly as though he were trying to make himself or
them disappear.

Either I or dh has always been with him, aside from brief times off
with Grandma or Grandpa (to whom he is very attached). Sam doing an
activity without one of us is very new (these two 3-hour sessions a
week at the Waldorf home). This was something he wanted to do but I
went with him the first five times (with his little brother Quinn).
Each time I'd ask after a while if he'd mind if I went off for a walk
or something but he wanted me to stay. The sixth time after an hour I
asked him if he was okay with Quinn and I going to run some errands.
He was completely fine with it. So this is a big change for us. He
has been acquainted with this woman for several years as she puts on
kid's shows at many summer events around here. A few of the kids
there are also good friends of his. All of the kids at this place,
except one, are homeschoolers or unschoolers.

Until his brother was born he was an "easy" kid. Easy because all his
needs were being met. He needed to be in constant reach of me and I
was always there. Over the last three years he has gone from a quiet
toddler who always just sat and watched to a child who rarely stops
talking and is always going a mile a minute cutting up pieces of
paper into tiny pieces or writing endless receipts for something. But
I have to be involved in this. He is very sweet and very fun. Under
the dining room table he has a restaurant, a toy store, and an
office. This morning I "ordered" a chai latte and toast from him and
I had to fill out five forms, sign my name in three different places,
all these papers got stapled together, then he wrote me a "check" and
had me sign one more time on a receipt. He is busy. The difficulty is
that he needs me to be there involved all the time. But I have
another child too! The problems arise when Quinn wanders into the
fray and wants to get under the dining room table (the precious zone)
or wants to nurse, wants a story read, then Sam can sometimes lose
control. Quinn gets bitten, pinched, kicked and so do I. Sometimes I
gently restrain Sam while talking to him gently, identifying what I
feel he might be feeling, telling him I need to keep everyone safe in
the house. Sometimes it takes an hour for him to calm down. He needs
all of me, sharing me or dh with Quinn is what causes almost all of
his meltdowns. On a bad day, I might spend up to three hours dealing
with these situations. It's hard for me to shower, eat or get dressed
on these days.

We have had some very good phases where the two boys have played well
together. Sam has demonstated good negotiating skills with Quinn
(which I don't even expect for a 6-yr old) and can be very sweet with
and protective of Quinn. I'm asking what others with intense kids do
to help get through their kids' phases since we are going through a
particularly challenging one right now.

Away from home the things that he really likes are watching real
people working. Ds2 loves this too. We'll stop and sit down on the
sidewalk for an hour if there's a window washer working, an excavator
digging, a concrete mixer pouring. He is too uncomfortable asking
anyone questions but I'll ask lots of questions for him when he asks
me to. We'll ask the parking meter reader questions, the post office
worker filling up the posties' drop boxes, anything we see.

But we can't spend all our time out. Ds2 loves many of the same
things but he loves being home as well and eventually he'll be beside
himself saying "Go home!" Ds1 also likes being home but my feeling is
that our little house with so many toys wings Sam out a bit. But like
someone else who posted about her daughter here a while back, he is
one of those kids that loves novelty, new things, new experiences. So
we hit a lot of garage sales and thrift shops to meet these needs. He
gets intensely attached to anything that comes into the house.
Occasionally we pick out things to return to thrift shops or to drop
at friends' houses with younger children. I feel that if our house
were far less busy clutter-wise, he'd be calmer. He has some great
playmates with a pretty wide age range but lately he's unable to
handle the excitement of anyone more than one other person coming
over. For now we are doing everything we can to keep social
interactions successful so he doesn't feel badly later and so other
parents don't label him.

So please what do those with intense kids do so that the other kids
in the house get a piece of you too (and your own personal hygiene
doesn't fall completely off the map)?

Susan

>
> It sounds like he needs a lot of stimulation, but its not really
> clear what kind - is he really social? physical? you say he "soaks
> everything up" - can you bring more things into the home for him
> to "soak up"? Or doesn "going out" meet some other needs of his -
> social, maybe, since he needs to be with you alot when he's home?

Faith Void

My dd is very intense. She is 10 (almost 11) now and she is in a different
space. When she was younger I would try to get help. I was fortunate to have
a close friend with an older dd who loved my dd and would play with her from
time to time, giving me a break from the intensity. She even taught my dd to
swing on the swings by herself. I got to relax, shower etc. I don't know
about the relational issues as dd felt so intense to me that I waited to
have #2 until she was almost 6. I was still able to give her a lot at that
age. She was almost 8 before ds began to assert his preferences, namely to
stay home and play (like your second). And I had to be quite attentive to
her socialization (with any other child) as she doesn't pick up clues very
well. geez, I hope this doesn't make her sound bad or like I don't
appreciate her many wonderful qualities. I am trying to be concise.
Is there anyone who can help you on a regular basis? Even an hour or 2 twice
a week. Or even someone willing to stay at home with ds2. If that might help
you.
faith

On 10/23/07, asmb65 <asmb65@...> wrote:
>
> Hmmm, it's hard to describe clearly a child because we're all so
> complex aren't we? Sam is one of those kids who didn't walk or talk
> until very "late", needed to be in physical contact with me a lot,
> had great separation anxiety, nursed constantly but at the same time
> was always fascinated with everything going on around us. He'd sit in
> my lap or the sling and watch the world go by. If a stranger spoke to
> him, he'd blink rapidly as though he were trying to make himself or
> them disappear.
>
> Either I or dh has always been with him, aside from brief times off
> with Grandma or Grandpa (to whom he is very attached). Sam doing an
> activity without one of us is very new (these two 3-hour sessions a
> week at the Waldorf home). This was something he wanted to do but I
> went with him the first five times (with his little brother Quinn).
> Each time I'd ask after a while if he'd mind if I went off for a walk
> or something but he wanted me to stay. The sixth time after an hour I
> asked him if he was okay with Quinn and I going to run some errands.
> He was completely fine with it. So this is a big change for us. He
> has been acquainted with this woman for several years as she puts on
> kid's shows at many summer events around here. A few of the kids
> there are also good friends of his. All of the kids at this place,
> except one, are homeschoolers or unschoolers.
>
> Until his brother was born he was an "easy" kid. Easy because all his
> needs were being met. He needed to be in constant reach of me and I
> was always there. Over the last three years he has gone from a quiet
> toddler who always just sat and watched to a child who rarely stops
> talking and is always going a mile a minute cutting up pieces of
> paper into tiny pieces or writing endless receipts for something. But
> I have to be involved in this. He is very sweet and very fun. Under
> the dining room table he has a restaurant, a toy store, and an
> office. This morning I "ordered" a chai latte and toast from him and
> I had to fill out five forms, sign my name in three different places,
> all these papers got stapled together, then he wrote me a "check" and
> had me sign one more time on a receipt. He is busy. The difficulty is
> that he needs me to be there involved all the time. But I have
> another child too! The problems arise when Quinn wanders into the
> fray and wants to get under the dining room table (the precious zone)
> or wants to nurse, wants a story read, then Sam can sometimes lose
> control. Quinn gets bitten, pinched, kicked and so do I. Sometimes I
> gently restrain Sam while talking to him gently, identifying what I
> feel he might be feeling, telling him I need to keep everyone safe in
> the house. Sometimes it takes an hour for him to calm down. He needs
> all of me, sharing me or dh with Quinn is what causes almost all of
> his meltdowns. On a bad day, I might spend up to three hours dealing
> with these situations. It's hard for me to shower, eat or get dressed
> on these days.
>
> We have had some very good phases where the two boys have played well
> together. Sam has demonstated good negotiating skills with Quinn
> (which I don't even expect for a 6-yr old) and can be very sweet with
> and protective of Quinn. I'm asking what others with intense kids do
> to help get through their kids' phases since we are going through a
> particularly challenging one right now.
>
> Away from home the things that he really likes are watching real
> people working. Ds2 loves this too. We'll stop and sit down on the
> sidewalk for an hour if there's a window washer working, an excavator
> digging, a concrete mixer pouring. He is too uncomfortable asking
> anyone questions but I'll ask lots of questions for him when he asks
> me to. We'll ask the parking meter reader questions, the post office
> worker filling up the posties' drop boxes, anything we see.
>
> But we can't spend all our time out. Ds2 loves many of the same
> things but he loves being home as well and eventually he'll be beside
> himself saying "Go home!" Ds1 also likes being home but my feeling is
> that our little house with so many toys wings Sam out a bit. But like
> someone else who posted about her daughter here a while back, he is
> one of those kids that loves novelty, new things, new experiences. So
> we hit a lot of garage sales and thrift shops to meet these needs. He
> gets intensely attached to anything that comes into the house.
> Occasionally we pick out things to return to thrift shops or to drop
> at friends' houses with younger children. I feel that if our house
> were far less busy clutter-wise, he'd be calmer. He has some great
> playmates with a pretty wide age range but lately he's unable to
> handle the excitement of anyone more than one other person coming
> over. For now we are doing everything we can to keep social
> interactions successful so he doesn't feel badly later and so other
> parents don't label him.
>
> So please what do those with intense kids do so that the other kids
> in the house get a piece of you too (and your own personal hygiene
> doesn't fall completely off the map)?
>
> Susan
>
> >
> > It sounds like he needs a lot of stimulation, but its not really
> > clear what kind - is he really social? physical? you say he "soaks
> > everything up" - can you bring more things into the home for him
> > to "soak up"? Or doesn "going out" meet some other needs of his -
> > social, maybe, since he needs to be with you alot when he's home?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

asmb65

Thanks Faith,

It helps hearing how others cope. Your dd doesn't sound "bad" at all.
I know what you mean, intense kids have really incredible qualities.
For many of them I think their brains are just going way too fast,
everything needs to be now and exactly what they have in mind. For my
ds1, when he has all of me, he is calm, thoughtful, and really a joy
to be with. Ds2 goes to bed a couple hours earlier than Sam, so Sam
and I always have a couple of hours in the evening to play games,
read, talk, do projects together. And these are my favorite times
with him.

We have had two wonderful days now. I find that often when I'm just
starting to feel like I'm going to crack and I reach out for help,
the challenge goes away or shifts. I used to joke that all I had to
do is complain about a nursing issue at a La Leche League meeting and
the issue would go away the next day.

I think your idea of getting someone to spend time with one or both
kids would be a good idea. There are so many homeschoolers in this
area I may even look for a pre-teen to act as a mother's helper when
I'm home and just need a bit of a break. It should be fun for the
boys too.

I'd love to hear more about how others with more than one child
manage to honour each child's needs/wants when they really differ
from the other child's. I find so much of my day is spent coaching
through situations of, "okay how can we help both of you to be happy
[or needs/wants met] now."

Susan

--- In [email protected], "Faith Void"
<littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
>
> My dd is very intense. She is 10 (almost 11) now and she is in a
different
> space. When she was younger I would try to get help. I was
fortunate to have
> a close friend with an older dd who loved my dd and would play with
her from
> time to time, giving me a break from the intensity. ...