rpindc04

We are 2 months into deschooling our 10-year old son. I know that
isn't long. We've learned so much, changed so much, and still have so
far to go. What is driving me crazy is the constant tv. We have only
one, and it is in the living room of our small house where I get to
listen to it most of the time. My issues:
- The noise drives me crazy sometimes! I can sometimes remain
rational enough to tell him this in a nice voice and ask him to do
something else, or tell him I need to go somewhere to get away from
it.
- I'm worried that he will not get past this, that it will not be a
phase, but a way of life.
- The physical effects of spending one's life in a chair are already
apparent - he is not as physically strong as when he was more active,
and gets back and neck aches after sitting cock-eyed in an easy chair
all day.
- His attention span and mood are short after hours and hours of tv.
He associates his bad mood with something I have done, rather than
with the tv, of course.
- He has such potential that is not being tapped - as an artist,
soccer player, friend, actor, designer, builder, mathematician, and
more - all interests he has expressed in the recent past.

I see this from an earlier post from Melissa: "I really
think that once the TV and videogames get their fill, when the kids
honestly and truly believe that they can come and go from them
without stipulation, then the ability to walk away and choose other
things are much easier."

I really really hope this happens, and have been holding onto these
words for a while. Do others agree with her?

Thanks.
Robbin

Melissa

I dont know if *I'm* the Melissa who said that, but it is something I
would say. We pulled our son from school at the age of ten, and the
TV deschooling took around nine months. Lots of tiredness, lots of
snapping. I brought his snacks. I brought him drinks. I rubbed his
neck and back. I just thought of it as the same kind of hard work
that kids put into sports or academics, a child who was tired and
snapping after that would be thought of completely differently.

It will take longer to deschool if he's being told to turn it off or
go elsewhere. Do you think that maybe the TV could be moved to
another room? Ours is in a backbedroom. This is also nice because
when we have my in-laws over, the guys can't turn on the football in
the middle of our conversation. Instead they have a little shindig in
the back, the ladies can chat, the kids can do crafts in the middle.
Maybe some sound blockers for you? We bought shooter's muffs for my
daughter that is very sensitive to noise. I borrow them sometimes
when I can't take anymore, or I put on my ipod. The noise does drive
me crazy after a while. We have seven kids, all of whom like
different shows. So by the time everyone watches the programs they
like, omg...hours. It helps that I really love seeing them involved.
They all do TV differently, and when I watch too and can talk with
them, it changes the whole feeling of the room. Sometimes I noticed
that the attitude wasn't so much from the TV as it was from being
disconnected from me and needing me more present. Sometimes it was a
result of MY feelings, the fear and concern that he wouldn't get past
it.

But he will. It's basic economics...any object that is in demand will
increase in value. Once there's a glut of it in the market, cost
decreases and so does demand. It's the way of the human mind. :-)
He'll probably still like TV, he'll still watch it some, it's a great
way to learn more about the world. We've found life lessons in every
show we've watched.

Good luck.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 17, 2007, at 7:25 AM, rpindc04 wrote:

> We are 2 months into deschooling our 10-year old son. I know that
> isn't long. We've learned so much, changed so much, and still have so
> far to go. What is driving me crazy is the constant tv. We have only
> one, and it is in the living room of our small house where I get to
> listen to it most of the time. My issues:
> - The noise drives me crazy sometimes! I can sometimes remain
> rational enough to tell him this in a nice voice and ask him to do
> something else, or tell him I need to go somewhere to get away from
> it.
> - I'm worried that he will not get past this, that it will not be a
> phase, but a way of life.
> - The physical effects of spending one's life in a chair are already
> apparent - he is not as physically strong as when he was more active,
> and gets back and neck aches after sitting cock-eyed in an easy chair
> all day.
> - His attention span and mood are short after hours and hours of tv.
> He associates his bad mood with something I have done, rather than
> with the tv, of course.
> - He has such potential that is not being tapped - as an artist,
> soccer player, friend, actor, designer, builder, mathematician, and
> more - all interests he has expressed in the recent past.
>
> I see this from an earlier post from Melissa: "I really
> think that once the TV and videogames get their fill, when the kids
> honestly and truly believe that they can come and go from them
> without stipulation, then the ability to walk away and choose other
> things are much easier."
>
> I really really hope this happens, and have been holding onto these
> words for a while. Do others agree with her?
>
> Thanks.
> Robbin
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cpaeff

I'm going through the exact same thing with my 12-year-old son, Robbin. I took him out
of a Waldorf school at the end of fifth grade, so the whole letting him have his way with
video games and computers is really new for us. It's a struggle because I'm still not
convinced that he doesn't need some guidance in that area but I'm really trying to let him
find his own way. My husband is not exactly on board so that doesn't help.

Melissa, I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or if he started finding
other things interesting in addition to playing video games. Does he still play them now
and then? Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let him be?

I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play video games or be at the
computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to crack! I'm
doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but it's tough.

Colleen
http://thenewunschooler.blogspot.com/

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: rpindc04 <robbin_mp@...>

We are 2 months into deschooling our 10-year old son.

-=-=-=-

Two months with a ten year old isn't long at all.

More importantly, two months for his months---well, you have barely
started! <g>

How many years did you spend in school? It'll take you longer than it
will him! <g>

-=-=-=-

- The noise drives me crazy sometimes! I can sometimes remain
rational enough to tell him this in a nice voice and ask him to do
something else, or tell him I need to go somewhere to get away from
it.

-=-=-

Good.

-=-=-=-

- I'm worried that he will not get past this, that it will not be a
phase, but a way of life.

-=-=-=-

Is it *your* way of life?

As soon as you really, REALLY quit worrying, THEN he will get past it.

It's funny how that works! <g>

-=-=-=-

- His attention span and mood are short after hours and hours of tv.
He associates his bad mood with something I have done, rather than
with the tv, of course.

-=-=-=-

Could he be right? Could it be something *you* did?

-=-=-=-=-

- He has such potential that is not being tapped - as an artist,
soccer player, friend, actor, designer, builder, mathematician, and
more - all interests he has expressed in the recent past.

-=-=-=-=-=

He's only ten. What potential have *you* tapped in yourself? Are you
modeling that realization of potential?

-=-=-=-=-

I see this from an earlier post from Melissa: "I really
think that once the TV and videogames get their fill, when the kids
honestly and truly believe that they can come and go from them
without stipulation, then the ability to walk away and choose other
things are much easier."

I really really hope this happens, and have been holding onto these
words for a while. Do others agree with her?

-=-=-=-

I do.

Doesn't mean that they will no longer ever watch TV. But if your son
believes that you will take it away from him one day soon, he will
never let it go.

Relax. Find the GOOD in TV. Celebrate it with him. It's not the
enemy---really!

Model what interests YOU. Let him see YOU do cool, fun, new things!



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org





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lyeping2607

Hi there,

" I see this from an earlier post from Melissa: "I really
think that once the TV and videogames get their fill, when the kids
honestly and truly believe that they can come and go from them
without stipulation, then the ability to walk away and choose other
things are much easier."
I really really hope this happens, and have been holding onto these
words for a while. Do others agree with her?"

YES! YES! YES IT IS TRUE!!!

My kid de-school via the PS2. We never had tv problem and that's
because we always did have the tv on, so he's kinda grew up with the
freedom to watch any tv he wants. BUt the PS2, well that's another
story (not very different from your tv dilemma). Anyway, as per
evryone's advice and really I had no choice anyway. Because it was
either fight all the way, or go with the flow. Now it's 10 months down
the road, my son is no longer hook to the PS2 but have found a new
obsession. IT's called the internet!!LOL!

My advice is to let him melt into that sofa, let him binge on it,
better still if you can melt and binge together. This way (I believe)
can provide you both something in common to talk/ discuss about, now or
future, as I believe it's best to keep the communication channel open,
even if it's rarely used. You'll be surprised what discussion/ new
interest all these "melting/ binging together" session can lead to.
Afterall, what harm can this lead to other than some R & R and bonding
time. How long, you'll ask? I'll say "start worrying if you're still
melting and binging away at the same tv shows, 2 years down the road!
LOL"

Jokes aside. No one can tell you how long your child need to deschool.
As for me, I told myself to only start worrying when my son turns ten
(that's 3 yrs away), and he can't count! Well, surprise, surprise! He
learnt his Maths thru his PS2. So I'm sure your son is learning too, by
tons, just by watching tv. If it's any consolation, well, I'm Chinese,
grew up in a Chinese speaking household in Asia, and I was "babysit" by
my grandmother's tv. I grew up learning to speak and write English, by
watching the Flintstones, Tom & Jerry, Bionic Women, The Saint, The
Multimillion Dollar Man and Dallas. Hence I can switch "accent" at a
drop of a hat! LOL!

Hope this helps.

SharonC

Vickisue Gray

Kelly, lol.... "TV...It's not the enemy---really!"
I love this!
Thanks for cracking me up!
Vicki


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Vickisue Gray

This reminds me of this past weekend, when my 9yo nephew
was here for my son's 10th birthday party. My nephew attends
a Christian private school even though he'll tell you he's Jewish.
(Just a funny side note as it's his ONLY religious training and my
brother's not Jewish, lol.) My other nephew who's also 9, was also
here and he attends public school. Both these boys live under
strict parental control. They have limited TV, bedtimes, punishments
for bad grades, not allowed video games, etc.

My son has none.

So the first nephew questioned me about the 'strange way' I parent.
He wanted to know why my son is allowed to play M rated video games
because his parents won't let him and he really wants to. I pointed out
that it's just not a big deal to my son. He can pick and choose what he
wants do and when he wants to do it.

I pointed out that even though my son plays these games that my siblings
forbid their sons because of the bad language, my son is the only one out
of the three boys who doesn't use curse words. My son chooses not to.
Yet these other boys get punished harshly for it, they still curse! Hmmmm.

So then I got questioned about how I 'make' my son do school work. My son
stepped up and stood proud as he stated, "I unschool! My mom lets me study
whatever I want!" Lol, all I could do is smile.

Later, this same child states,
"My mom doesn't believe in homeschool." Before I could respond, my spouse
ever so calmly states, "She doesn't have to believe in it, but whether she
does or not, it really is out there, and millions of people are doing it."

This poor child left so confused. My son has no rules but makes good choices
and he has no school yet he knows so much. Just how does this happen?!?

Vicki





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lyeping2607

LOL! Sorry Melissa! I was in a hurry and obviously mis-read the post.
Well, who ever it was asking for help,

I hope I've go tmy message across.

SharonC

lyeping2607

Hi Vicki

> So then I got questioned about how I 'make' my son do school work. My
son stepped up and stood proud as he stated, "I unschool! My mom lets
me study whatever I want!" Lol, all I could do is smile.

It's called Confidence. And you can only get it when you're allowed the
the time and space to practice and honed your skills of "exercising
the freedom of choice", without any prejudice.

And yes, it makes me smile too.

SharonC

Debra Rossing

>This is week seven and I'm about to crack!

What are -you- doing while he's playing/watching (aside from counting
the days on the calendar lol)? Seriously, are you mostly doing the
dishes and hovering and worrying or are you using this time to explore
YOUR interests, try a new knitting pattern you've been meaning to get
around to, or digging into that wood burning kit you've had laying
around, or whatever. November is just around the corner, so if you're so
inclined, you might try National Novel Writers Month (NaNoWriMo) - you
try to write an entire novel start to end in one month (google it and
you'll find the website with more information).

Deb

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

Nope. He didn't just stop playing. Sorry if that's hard to hear.

What we did see, was kind of like a bell curve. Well, the second
half. When he got his wii, the calendar notes that it was played for
13 hours a day for the first few weeks. This was after unschooling
for a year and a half, so obviously there was high interest (and to
be fair, he wasn't the only one playing, I needed my turn too) About
six months ago, he went three days without turning it on longer than
it took to check the weather. Then we got super paper mario, and the
time went back up to six hours a day, until he beat it. Now it's
three hours a day while I'm trying to beat it.

I didn't offer other alternatives. I say that, but we have a busy
house full of people doing things. For the most part, if he's not
playing games on a console, he's on the computer. This time is
divided pretty evenly between playing games, surfing for more info
and working on programming. I don't just let him be. I sit in there
with him, play with him, and encourage him to keep practicing.
Beating those games is pretty important to him, and by distracting
him, I'm not only not honoring that need, but I'm actually prolonging
the time it takes to process and get to a stopping point.

You can take nine months. Promise! Follow the AA creed of one day at
a time. One minute at a time if you have to, but look at him as a
person, as you would a genius computer coder, or a best friend who's
trying to beat the game, and it takes on an entirely different look.
It is amazing to see how much he's learning, I mean, Josh knows every
character on SPM, which is a huge help to me when I'm trying to
defeat a boss stage! Okay okay, seriously. Let it happen, Breath in,
Breath out. Accept that this is who he is NOW. This isn't an
indictment of who he'll be in two years, or four years or ten years.
But it's okay.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 22, 2007, at 4:13 PM, cpaeff wrote:

> Melissa, I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or
> if he started finding
> other things interesting in addition to playing video games. Does
> he still play them now
> and then? Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let
> him be?
>
> I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play
> video games or be at the
> computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to
> crack! I'm
> doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but
> it's tough.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:

Then we got super paper mario, and the
time went back up to six hours a day, until he beat it. Now it's
three hours a day while I'm trying to beat it.

------------------------------------------------------------

LOL Melissa ! Looks like our house! I already beat Paper Mario I just got to do the two Pit of 100 Trials to be happy now.



Alex










Nope. He didn't just stop playing. Sorry if that's hard to hear.

What we did see, was kind of like a bell curve. Well, the second
half. When he got his wii, the calendar notes that it was played for
13 hours a day for the first few weeks. This was after unschooling
for a year and a half, so obviously there was high interest (and to
be fair, he wasn't the only one playing, I needed my turn too) About
six months ago, he went three days without turning it on longer than
it took to check the weather. Then we got super paper mario, and the
time went back up to six hours a day, until he beat it. Now it's
three hours a day while I'm trying to beat it.

I didn't offer other alternatives. I say that, but we have a busy
house full of people doing things. For the most part, if he's not
playing games on a console, he's on the computer. This time is
divided pretty evenly between playing games, surfing for more info
and working on programming. I don't just let him be. I sit in there
with him, play with him, and encourage him to keep practicing.
Beating those games is pretty important to him, and by distracting
him, I'm not only not honoring that need, but I'm actually prolonging
the time it takes to process and get to a stopping point.

You can take nine months. Promise! Follow the AA creed of one day at
a time. One minute at a time if you have to, but look at him as a
person, as you would a genius computer coder, or a best friend who's
trying to beat the game, and it takes on an entirely different look.
It is amazing to see how much he's learning, I mean, Josh knows every
character on SPM, which is a huge help to me when I'm trying to
defeat a boss stage! Okay okay, seriously. Let it happen, Breath in,
Breath out. Accept that this is who he is NOW. This isn't an
indictment of who he'll be in two years, or four years or ten years.
But it's okay.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma

On Oct 22, 2007, at 4:13 PM, cpaeff wrote:

> Melissa, I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or
> if he started finding
> other things interesting in addition to playing video games. Does
> he still play them now
> and then? Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let
> him be?
>
> I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play
> video games or be at the
> computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to
> crack! I'm
> doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but
> it's tough.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

SharonC wrote:

<<If it's any consolation, well, I'm Chinese, grew up in a Chinese speaking
household in Asia, and I was "babysit" by my grandmother'If it's any
consolation, well, I'm Chinese, grew up in a Chinese speaking household in& Jerry,
Bionic Women, The Saint, The Multimillion Dollar Man and Dallas. Hence I can switch
"accent" at a drop of a hat! LOL!>>

I love that you shared this. I'm a native English speaker, but I've
developed fluency in Spanish mainly by watching tv. I did take a few classes at the
beginning, but then switched to watching tv once I was able to get the gist of
what was happening and could deduce what was being said. I'd often watch with
the captions on so I could see the words too. My accent is also pretty good;
I'm often mistaken for a native speaker (though they just can't figure out
which country I'm from.) Anyway, I tell people this but they rarely seem to
believe me, so it's nice to hear from somebody with a similar experience.

Patty



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sharon currie

Hi Colleen,

I know you meant the questions for Melissa, but I would like to offer my experience as I can remember when we first started de-schooling and unschooling. I was very worried, just like you.

1. I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or if he started finding
other things interesting in addition to playing video games.

One morning, my son's decided he wasn't gonna switch on the PS2 and play Star Wars Lego , as he has done 6 months ago! Instead, he switch the tv on, and watch Looney Toons and has done so for about 6 weeks. Then he went back to the PS2, only this time it's the Simpson game. He stuck with the Simpsons for 3 months. And then went onto Grand Theft Auto for 7 weeks. And then went onto the Disney Town Town Online community game, and has been stuck with this ever since (it's been 5 weeks).

2. Does he still play them now and then?
In my son's case, no. Once he had enough of the game, he just move onto the next. The tv merely only serve as an "in between" entertainment until he finds another exciting PS2 or pc game. The moment he starts flitting between tv and PS2 or pc, I know the "favourite game" is wearing off.

3. Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let him be?
Yes, I do offer alot of alternative, all the time. I have to, in order to "dilute" down the gaming time. I have no problem with his obsession with the PS2 or pc, but I need him to take little breaks, and I'll do anything to get him away from those gaming media. So I entice him with lots of stuff, like going to his favourite sandpit at the nearby park, walking to the neighbourhood supermart to buy his favourite iced-bun, or sometimes even offer to take him window shopping at Toys'r' US. Or go to the local library to check out some new games for his PS2. But really, if it's at the beginning of a new game/ "obsession" none of these alternative offered will work. Of which, my only option is to sit and be with him because my son has a need to "initiate me" into his new game. I join in the games sometime, but mostly, will do my emails or catch up with my reading sitting next to him inorder to keep up with his game status, so that we can always have something to talk about!

4. I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play video games or be at the
computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to crack! I'm
doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but it's tough.

I know it's hard but if you stop resisting it, just go with the flow, you'll find it easier. Like you said, you know he's learning, and I agree it's is tough to accept, not knowing what it is exaclty he's learning, but if you take a step back and think "What's the worst thing that can happen if you allow him to just do what he wants for 10 months?" When my son de-school with his PS2, I just accept that whatever that is, that he is needing it and it is obviously non-tangible, and not me mummy but only the PS2 can provide it, so be it. Can you view these 9 months like a long sabbatical from school? Like going on a long journey, perhaps a journey to discover oneself? I did literally had to stop thinking like mummy, but reach out into my inner child again, and think like one. It was the only way how my brain can make sense out of all these de-schooling thing. I did tell myself "so what if we were to be playing PS2 or pc games or watch tv for a whole year? Wouldn't it be
interesting to see what the results will be after a whole year of gaming?" I told myself I have 3 years till my son turn 10, and if he's unable to count, then I have every cause to start panicking! "

Judge and make a decision I did. I do believe because of my son's Asperger, he's unable to switch off. My son just do not have the capability to slow down even if he's too tired to go on (and before anyone jump at me, pls do bear in mind this is my kid, and I do know my child very well and only wants the best for him). How do I know he's tired? Well, if my kid get up from his bed and he's standing wobbly all over with his eyes still shut, then he must be too tired to play! Many times, at my insistance that he gets back to bed, which he did and fall back asleep within seconds!

Hence, as much as I try not to force him to do anything, I do insist that he stop and take a break every so often. He's to decide when to take that break. Because if he's been spending too long hours on the pc or PS2 ( kinda like morning till night, 3 days in a row) and he'll start getting frustrated with the machine because he's losing concentration, and making lots of mistakes during the game, blaming the machine for all his mistakes, and his eyes' blinking non-stop (tired eyes) and headaches, I do insist on cutting down on his gaming time.

If it's any consolation, 11 months on, my son is still never far from his tv, PS2 and pc. He's learnt his add and fraction thru his PS2 games and he did have many opportunity to practise reading all those games instructions. His current obsession with the Disney ToonwTown is further encouraging lots of reading practice (instructions) and learning new words, and counting (number of jellybeans needed to buy ammunitions).

I truly believe a child's strong interest in the gamebox and pc can be utilized for effective learning. My kid buys his own gaming magazines too, once a month. This way, he gets to know what sort of latest games that he likes, and we have lots of chats about which game is the bestest, and why. He then decide to "allocate (division?) " his pocket money between new game and new toy. His spelling is coming along nicely too, as one will need to be able to spell, if one wants to "google" it.

Hope my little account can help you see pass your fear.

Sharon


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lyeping2607

Hi Patty!

Glad to have found someone who's been thru the same experience.
Nowadays, my unschooling days with my son is very much guided by my
childhood. I have to say even with this unique experience of growing up
with the tv, I can still have mixed feelings about my child growing up
with too much of the gamebox or pc., considering that the gamabox and
pc is probably more effective in teaching that the tv!!!

Sharon

ENSEMBLE S-WAYNFORTH

I'm going through the exact same thing with my 12-year-old son, Robbin. I took him out
of a Waldorf school at the end of fifth grade, so the whole letting him have his way with
video games and computers is really new for us. It's a struggle because I'm still not
convinced that he doesn't need some guidance in that area but I'm really trying to let him
find his own way. My husband is not exactly on board so that doesn't help.

Melissa, I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or if he started finding
other things interesting in addition to playing video games. Does he still play them now
and then? Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let him be?

I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play video games or be at the
computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to crack! I'm
doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but it's tough.

--------------
I don't think waiting for it to change will help. I think changing your perspective is the only thing that can make it better. Sit and watch him play. Hang out and play with him, if he is willing to help you figure your way through the steep learning curve. Talk to him about what kind of games he thinks you might like. There are a lot of amazing games out there. Animal Crossing is nice introduction, gentle play, not competitive, lots of taking care of things, but it's only on Nintendo, so will only work if you have a Wii or a gamecube. Harvest Moon is a similar game style (I'm playing Rune Factory which is a fantasy version of Harvest Moon, it helps me to fall asleep at night) except you are a farmer instead of a resident of a city. Runescape is a fun rpg style on-line game that is easy to get into. It's free and if you have more than one computer you and your son can create characters and play together. If you have a PS2 Katamari and Katamari Damacy are
amazing games, very funny and relatively easy to get into and walk away from.

If you can show your son you honor his interest in video games, that you figure since he finds them so interesting there must be something of value in them, he will trust you far more than if he catches you working hard not to judge the amount of time he is playing video games. He will also know, in a way I imagine he doesn't know now, that you aren't going to take his games away from him. You aren't going to go back to the days of all wood and cotton toys and natural products that a Waldorf based education values above all else.

I haven't limited my son's television watching for 5 years, and his video game playing for longer. And I never did limit it very much. The television is on in our house quite a good deal of the time. And often Simon is either watching television or playing on the PS2 or the computer or occasionally on the Wii. Often he'll invite me to play. Sometimes I'll invite him to play a new game he got so that I can know the game, I like to be able to share with him. If there is something else he wants to do he'll do it. Chopping wood or going in the hot tub (which is wood fired, so one act leads to another) or picking apples or drawing or reading something with me. But as often as not it is the games and the television that he really enjoys. Simon loves to tell stories, he's been creating stories since he was a very young boy, initially about being a superhero who saved animals in trouble and then, for a long time, about Pokemon. He moved into Yugioh, retelling
the stories and games he played, changing details, making them work out the way he would rather see them. It isn't a passive relationship, with him in a vegetative state, he interacts with these stories, these games.

It is important that you see these games as valuable. Your son may always have a life that includes video games. If you set up your world view as one that is in opposition to video games, you are opposing him. It won't build a trusting, loving, sharing relationship. And maybe you and your son can find things your husband will love, too. David, my husband, loves racing games, but at the moment only has eyes for Guitar Hero. Boy howdy, does that take up his video game time.

Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

rpindc04

Thanks to everyone for responding to this note. All of it is good to
read. In response:

I am learning more and more about his games, mainly Pokemon now. We
talk about the relative merits of different Pokemon.

About being "about to crack", most days, I am fine with the tv. Some
days, I just want a more aesthetically pleasing aural environment. I
was raised in a house where classical music was played much of the
time. Now, to hear the chatter-clatter of tv for hours and hours
makes me both a little agitated, and sad. I miss the beauty. And, I
can hear some of your voices saying, "Do what interests you." Just
today, I got the piano tuned and repaired, so I can start playing
again! It is in the same room as the tv, so we'll have to work out a
schedule, which I think is possible. Another aspect of cracking is
that I see all the wonderful things he is missing - the fun times he
could have with friends, outdoors, reading, etc. And, then I try to
remind myself that he is doing what he needs to do right now. And,
most times, I really *get* that.

I am able to let go, and stay in that place much of the time. And, I
see results, I think. My son realizes that it is a struggle for me,
and I think he appreciates that I am really trying in this regard. He
is getting easier to talk to and be with, as he is more relaxed. A
trip to Target yesterday was positively enjoyable - which had never
happened before. And, we do get out and do other things - hang with
friends, play soccer, occassionally ride bikes, take a walk. He
recently found a beat-up penney we are dissolving slowly in a bowl of
vinegar. Now he is over at a friend's house researching Somalia as
part of an informal homeschooling class another mom put together, and
which he chose to participate in. I think he is beginning to be
pretty confident I will not take the tv and Nintendo away.

I hope dh can join soon. I am showing him all your responses. He
agrees most of the time, but when he can't come home from work and
grab the remote control away from ds and do what he (dh) wants with
it without ds having some strong objection, things deteriorate
rapidly. I'm working with dh to treat ds in that moment as he would a
neighbor - with that amount of respect and courtesy.

Thanks so much for all your help.


Robbin

pattywithawhy1

--- In [email protected], "lyeping2607"
<lyeping2607@...> wrote:

<< I have to say even with this unique experience of growing up
> with the tv, I can still have mixed feelings about my child growing
up > with too much of the gamebox or pc., considering that the gamabox
and pc is probably more effective in teaching that the tv!!!>>

It *is* hard to accept new technologies, especially fun ones, and trust
that real learning is taking place. Somebody may have the whole story
somewhere, but I've heard the same thing happened when books were
invented.

I think one of the best remedies for the belief that gaming is mindless
is learning to play the games yourself. I think it also helps remind
us of what it feels like to go through the process of have to learn
something challenging that we don't think is relevant to our lives.

That said, I've tried it, and found most of my son's favorite games
require too much patience and perseverence, and now I just watch and
trust him. ;-)

Patty

Melissa

Alex,
YOU are the one who told me all about how wonderful Paper Mario was
when we were at conference! We sat in the video game room and talk
about your cows too ;-)
Soon after conference we got back home, and Josh's friend was selling
it for half of what it cost in the store, so we bought it up! It has
been so wonderful, the whole family sitting around talking about
strategy and storyline. The kids are very supportive of me (and I
must admit, I've been a bad sport at times. Who wants to be the
worst??) It's so funny though, the kids laughing at my grumpy face as
I struggle to beat the boss stages...and I've had to learn to laugh
and let it go too. What a lesson...how many times have I told them,
"It's only a game, don't take it so serious?" I've gotten better
about it since unschooling, but boy, I've definitely internalized
that in the past few weeks! I think I'm at level 9...so wish me luck.

I did amaze the kids with my ease at beating Brobot the second time lol!

Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 24, 2007, at 11:26 AM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
>
>
> LOL Melissa ! Looks like our house! I already beat Paper Mario I
> just got to do the two Pit of 100 Trials to be happy now.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<Another aspect of cracking is that I see all the wonderful things he is
missing - the fun times he
could have with friends, outdoors, reading, etc>>

I think the things you're imagining he's missing out on are things that
you've enjoyed. If he was made to do those things instead of playing video games,
he'd be seeing all the wonderful things *he'd* be missing out on, namely, the
games, and the knowledge and experience that would allow him to connect with
other kids over it. Whatever it is, if he knows what it is and he's really not
choosing it, how wonderful can it be?

Has anyone gone back and tried to get your kids to play games you played and
enjoyed as a kid, like "Life" or "Monopoly?" You know what I've discovered,
for me anyway, they're really not that great. I just associate them with the
memory of being a kid and spending time with my parents, and they *seem* like
they were really fun. My kids tend to think that such games are so simple
they're "lame."

I think another thing to keep in mind about video games is the kind of
thinking they require. Lately I've been coming across a lot of articles talking
about how schools aren't preparing kids for the digital age, because they're
still working off an old model of memorizing information, which has become
outdated now that information is readily available and constantly changing. What's
becoming and will continue to become more important in the future is the
ability to think, figure things out, and discern which information is important and
reliable and which isn't. That's more of the kind of education kids are
actually getting from using the computer and gaming.

And I've also found that a lot of what's considered culturally relevant and
important-to-know information seems to easily be picked up over the years
through authentic conversation about anything any of us finds interesting, along
with a steady diet of television. :-)

But for what it's worth, right now my 11yo always-unschooled daughter is
sitting in front of the tv reading a book.


Patty



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

LOL Melissa,
You are doing way better than me! I had MD do all my boss fights !!!<g>
Isn't it a great game! And the love story and all the different worlds!
I love the game!
Happy you are all having a blast!
And just for the record I am not a good sport! I get really intense playing.
Wonder where ds get his intensity wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhen he is playing from?LOL
Alex

PS YOu all need to come visit the farm. I got plenty room and bed for everyone!)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

ROTFL...I asked Josh to do one for me (king flower?) anyway, he just
sighed and said "Mom, you give yourself way less credit than you
deserve!" Oh, how sweet....now beat the flower dangit!

I did do it though! I am having a blast, and I keep thinking about
all the stuff you told me about your dad and advertising.
It is a great game, it reminds me of when someone on this list
suggested the Animal Crossing. We were all over that for months! We
didn't play for a year, now the kids have torn down their town and
started new characters. it's so amazing!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (12), Breanna (10), Emily (8), Rachel (7), Sam (6), Dan
(4), and Avari Rose (19 months)

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Oct 24, 2007, at 9:38 PM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:

> LOL Melissa,
> You are doing way better than me! I had MD do all my boss fights !!!
> <g>
> Isn't it a great game! And the love story and all the different
> worlds!
> I love the game!
> Happy you are all having a blast!
> And just for the record I am not a good sport! I get really intense
> playing.
> Wonder where ds get his intensity wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhen he is
> playing from?LOL
> Alex
>
> PS YOu all need to come visit the farm. I got plenty room and bed
> for everyone!)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Rossing

Does your TV have a place for a headphone to plug in? Also, sometimes
we'll turn on the closed captioning on the TV so that it's possible to
follow the storyline while other things are going on around (for
example, if I'm on the treadmill and I want to also watch TV, I use the
captioning so I don't have to blast the TV volume).

Deb

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Donna Vanderlip

Hi Colleen

I am in a similar place. Its about week 10 for us and it is tough. But, keep in touch with these posts. I am amazed at the perspective parents have here and the support is invaluable. Whenever I feel myself slipping into worry and control I get on line and read. Then I go back to my kids and see their activity with the computer from a new place. I feel more supportive and respectful of the choices they are making. It is hard not to question the number of hours my son plays games on the computer and I am not sure how much guidance to give him around balance etc. But, I keep leaning towards freedom, respect and honoring his need to play these games. I am in the process of letting go of the idea that after a certain point he will stop. Perhaps that is what makes us crazy.

donna a new to unschooling mom
cpaeff <cpaeff@...> wrote:
I'm going through the exact same thing with my 12-year-old son, Robbin. I took him out
of a Waldorf school at the end of fifth grade, so the whole letting him have his way with
video games and computers is really new for us. It's a struggle because I'm still not
convinced that he doesn't need some guidance in that area but I'm really trying to let him
find his own way. My husband is not exactly on board so that doesn't help.

Melissa, I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or if he started finding
other things interesting in addition to playing video games. Does he still play them now
and then? Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let him be?

I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play video games or be at the
computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to crack! I'm
doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but it's tough.

Colleen
http://thenewunschooler.blogspot.com/






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cpaeff

Thanks Donna. It does help to read these posts. They make me question my reaction to
the video games/computer use, rather than go with a gut feeling that I haven't really
thought through. And I think the advice about jumping in and playing the games with him
is terrific. My son LOVES it when I get involved. He's created a Face Book page for me and
signed me up for Dragon Quest--sharing those things makes him really happy. I don't
think I play them nearly enough to satisfy him, though!

--- In [email protected], Donna Vanderlip <donnavanderlip@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Colleen
>
> I am in a similar place. Its about week 10 for us and it is tough. But, keep in touch
with these posts. I am amazed at the perspective parents have here and the support is
invaluable. Whenever I feel myself slipping into worry and control I get on line and read.
Then I go back to my kids and see their activity with the computer from a new place. I feel
more supportive and respectful of the choices they are making. It is hard not to question
the number of hours my son plays games on the computer and I am not sure how much
guidance to give him around balance etc. But, I keep leaning towards freedom, respect
and honoring his need to play these games. I am in the process of letting go of the idea
that after a certain point he will stop. Perhaps that is what makes us crazy.
>
> donna a new to unschooling mom
> cpaeff <cpaeff@...> wrote:
> I'm going through the exact same thing with my 12-year-old son, Robbin. I took
him out
> of a Waldorf school at the end of fifth grade, so the whole letting him have his way with
> video games and computers is really new for us. It's a struggle because I'm still not
> convinced that he doesn't need some guidance in that area but I'm really trying to let
him
> find his own way. My husband is not exactly on board so that doesn't help.
>
> Melissa, I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or if he started finding
> other things interesting in addition to playing video games. Does he still play them now
> and then? Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let him be?
>
> I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play video games or be at
the
> computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to crack! I'm
> doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but it's tough.
>
> Colleen
> http://thenewunschooler.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> All new Yahoo! Mail
> ---------------------------------
> Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

cpaeff

Thanks Deb. Those are helpful suggestions. I'm usually nearby doing my own thing.
Sometimes we're both at the kitchen table on our separate laptops--it doesn't really
bother me at those moments. What's funny is that since I've started my blog (it's at http://
thenewunschooler.blogspot.com/ ) I've spent a lot more time on the computer, but I'm
learning so much! So I know my son's learning too, which makes it a bit easier for me to
take. :)

We did create a compromise, though. He's not playing video games until after 4 p.m. I
know this will probably hold back our deschooling process and make it take longer, but
my husband is really against the unlimited video games. Also, I was finding that I was so
grouchy on days when my son had been at the tv or on the computer all day. I'm much
more pleasant to be around now that we've divided the day up into two halves--one with
video games and one (mostly) without. It's not very unschoolish of me but I wasn't feeling
right about disregarding my husband's feelings, and my own emotions were all over the
place because I just didn't feel good about the whole thing.

I'm sure things will continue to change as we adjust to our new lives and our new way of
thinking. It's really helpful to have experienced people like you offering advice and
cheering me on. :)


--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing" <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> >This is week seven and I'm about to crack!
>
> What are -you- doing while he's playing/watching (aside from counting
> the days on the calendar lol)? Seriously, are you mostly doing the
> dishes and hovering and worrying or are you using this time to explore
> YOUR interests, try a new knitting pattern you've been meaning to get
> around to, or digging into that wood burning kit you've had laying
> around, or whatever. November is just around the corner, so if you're so
> inclined, you might try National Novel Writers Month (NaNoWriMo) - you
> try to write an entire novel start to end in one month (google it and
> you'll find the website with more information).
>
> Deb
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> CNC Software, Inc.
> www.mastercam.com
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

cpaeff

Hi Sharon. Thank you for sending such a detailed response! It does help to hear what you
have to say. As I wrote in another reply, we're trying out some new ways of dealing with
the situation--a compromise. I know you're probably shaking your head! But since my
husband is against the video games, and I've got my own reservations (okay, judgements)
about them I've been finding it very difficult to let the situation play out on its own. Our
compromise breaks the day into a half with video games and a half without. It's more of a
guide than a hard and fast rule but my son told me the other day that he likes it--
probably because I'm not nearly as grouchy now. :) We'll see how it works. I certainly do
appreciate your wisdom, though! I'm sure I'll come back to read through your response
and others many times as I make my way through this first year of unschooling. Thanks
again!

--- In [email protected], sharon currie <lyeping2607@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Colleen,
>
> I know you meant the questions for Melissa, but I would like to offer my experience as
I can remember when we first started de-schooling and unschooling. I was very worried,
just like you.
>
> 1. I'm wondering if your son just stopped playing one day or if he started finding
> other things interesting in addition to playing video games.
>
> One morning, my son's decided he wasn't gonna switch on the PS2 and play Star Wars
Lego , as he has done 6 months ago! Instead, he switch the tv on, and watch Looney
Toons and has done so for about 6 weeks. Then he went back to the PS2, only this time
it's the Simpson game. He stuck with the Simpsons for 3 months. And then went onto
Grand Theft Auto for 7 weeks. And then went onto the Disney Town Town Online
community game, and has been stuck with this ever since (it's been 5 weeks).
>
> 2. Does he still play them now and then?
> In my son's case, no. Once he had enough of the game, he just move onto the next.
The tv merely only serve as an "in between" entertainment until he finds another exciting
PS2 or pc game. The moment he starts flitting between tv and PS2 or pc, I know the
"favourite game" is wearing off.
>
> 3. Did you offer him other alternatives or did you just let him be?
> Yes, I do offer alot of alternative, all the time. I have to, in order to "dilute" down the
gaming time. I have no problem with his obsession with the PS2 or pc, but I need him to
take little breaks, and I'll do anything to get him away from those gaming media. So I
entice him with lots of stuff, like going to his favourite sandpit at the nearby park, walking
to the neighbourhood supermart to buy his favourite iced-bun, or sometimes even offer to
take him window shopping at Toys'r' US. Or go to the local library to check out some new
games for his PS2. But really, if it's at the beginning of a new game/ "obsession" none of
these alternative offered will work. Of which, my only option is to sit and be with him
because my son has a need to "initiate me" into his new game. I join in the games
sometime, but mostly, will do my emails or catch up with my reading sitting next to him
inorder to keep up with his game status, so that we can always have something to talk
about!
>
> 4. I honestly don't think I can take nine months of letting him play video games or be
at the
> computer whenever he wants to. This is week seven and I'm about to crack! I'm
> doing my best not to judge, and I know he's learning something but it's tough.
>
> I know it's hard but if you stop resisting it, just go with the flow, you'll find it easier.
Like you said, you know he's learning, and I agree it's is tough to accept, not knowing
what it is exaclty he's learning, but if you take a step back and think "What's the worst
thing that can happen if you allow him to just do what he wants for 10 months?" When my
son de-school with his PS2, I just accept that whatever that is, that he is needing it and it
is obviously non-tangible, and not me mummy but only the PS2 can provide it, so be it.
Can you view these 9 months like a long sabbatical from school? Like going on a long
journey, perhaps a journey to discover oneself? I did literally had to stop thinking like
mummy, but reach out into my inner child again, and think like one. It was the only way
how my brain can make sense out of all these de-schooling thing. I did tell myself "so
what if we were to be playing PS2 or pc games or watch tv for a whole year? Wouldn't it be
> interesting to see what the results will be after a whole year of gaming?" I told myself I
have 3 years till my son turn 10, and if he's unable to count, then I have every cause to
start panicking! "
>
> Judge and make a decision I did. I do believe because of my son's Asperger, he's
unable to switch off. My son just do not have the capability to slow down even if he's too
tired to go on (and before anyone jump at me, pls do bear in mind this is my kid, and I do
know my child very well and only wants the best for him). How do I know he's tired? Well,
if my kid get up from his bed and he's standing wobbly all over with his eyes still shut,
then he must be too tired to play! Many times, at my insistance that he gets back to bed,
which he did and fall back asleep within seconds!
>
> Hence, as much as I try not to force him to do anything, I do insist that he stop and
take a break every so often. He's to decide when to take that break. Because if he's been
spending too long hours on the pc or PS2 ( kinda like morning till night, 3 days in a row)
and he'll start getting frustrated with the machine because he's losing concentration, and
making lots of mistakes during the game, blaming the machine for all his mistakes, and
his eyes' blinking non-stop (tired eyes) and headaches, I do insist on cutting down on his
gaming time.
>
> If it's any consolation, 11 months on, my son is still never far from his tv, PS2 and pc.
He's learnt his add and fraction thru his PS2 games and he did have many opportunity to
practise reading all those games instructions. His current obsession with the Disney
ToonwTown is further encouraging lots of reading practice (instructions) and learning new
words, and counting (number of jellybeans needed to buy ammunitions).
>
> I truly believe a child's strong interest in the gamebox and pc can be utilized for
effective learning. My kid buys his own gaming magazines too, once a month. This way, he
gets to know what sort of latest games that he likes, and we have lots of chats about
which game is the bestest, and why. He then decide to "allocate (division?) " his pocket
money between new game and new toy. His spelling is coming along nicely too, as one will
need to be able to spell, if one wants to "google" it.
>
> Hope my little account can help you see pass your fear.
>
> Sharon
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

cpaeff

"Beating those games is pretty important to him, and by distracting him, I'm not only not
honoring that need, but I'm actually prolonging the time it takes to process and get to a
stopping point." -Melissa

Thank you Melissa. I really appreciate your response. You're so right about needing to honor
what's important to my son. I hate to say it, but this is a relatively new idea for me and it just
hasn't stuck yet. I'm much better about it now than I was even a few months ago, but I still
have a long way to go, I think.

lyeping2607

Hi cpaeff

Glad to be of help! I'm never one to "shake my head" at other people's
approach towards thier family. To me, the very fact they are even
considering unschooling, was enough to convince me that they will get
there eventually. Same philosophy applies to my son. My family call me
a "push over", to me it's "whatever!" LOL!

It seems to me you've found your "balance", for now.


Sharon

lyeping2607

Hi cpaeff and everyone,

Here's my link to my blog, charting my son deschooling via the pS2 and
how my thoughts is ever changing as time goes by.

As always, it's a log for myself, hence some materials might seem
unschooling. This link is offered in good faith, hoping it might
provide some comfort to some of us newbies, during our moments of
uncertainties, therefore is not open for any critism, but by all means
do leave me a sweet note of encouragement or 2! *SMILES*

http://mamagecko.blogspot.com/

Sharon