Christian

so here is the problem my ds who is 6.5yr has, since a small infant,
hurt himself when he is upset and i dont know how to stop him. when
he was small it was easy to redirect him.....i'd hug him, make funny
faces, get him to sing a wiggles song etc just anything to keep him
from hurting himself. when he was 1.5-2 he'd actually run up against
walls or bang his head on the floor. well when sissy arrived 4 years
ago it seemed to disappear well over the last year it has resurfaced
and has gotten significantly worse. when i see the warning signs
(for instance clinched fists or he starts pulling at his jeans) i sit
down with him and try to talk to him about it. i ask him what's
bothering him or sometimes i know and i acknowledge it.
unfortunately this doesn't seem to work. drawing helped for a while
but he is no longer interested in drawing. i don't really know how
to keep him from hurting himself!
for instance we had to things happen today where he hurt himself. the
first one we were driving over the bridge into town to go walk around
the mall since it was raining all day......his sister took his book
he was reading to look at the picture......i asked her to give it
back to bubba bc he was still reading it and she did but by then he
was very upset, there was no where for me to pull over, i tried to
explain to him that i could understand why he was upset but he
started yelling at me said i didn't understand.....i asked him to
explain it then and then he started to pinch his thighs. this all
happened in about 2 min and as soon as i could i pulled over and we
got out of the car hugged and he was all better. the second instance
was at my parents home this evening.....my mom was cutting my hair,
my little brother was getting ready for football practice and my dad
was helping him gt everything together......ds wanted to play go fish
and i said not right now but as soon as my hair is done in like 5 min
i will play with you.....he flopped on the couch in the other
room....when i walked in a few min later he was hitting his forehead
with the small metal tin that stored his cards and it left a whelp so
he was hitting pretty hard. of course when i saw this i talked with
him and all i got was "i'm bored and mad that no one would play with
me" i apologized for not being able to and explained i only sat to
get my hair trimmed bc he and sissy were outside playing when we
started. he said he was mad at me he was mad no one would play cards
with him.
so my question is how do i handle this situation. he has always been
very sensitive and a loner and usually when he does want to spend
time with me i am right there. but so many thing trigger this
violent behavior.....if it's raining out side and he wants to go play
on the swing set he'll punch his face, or if sissy won't sit and
watch his movie with him he'll pinch or scratch himself etc.....i
just don't know what to do! i am so sorry this is so long but i am
really worried about him.

Deb Gibson

Christian,
This is my thoughts....I am no"expert"... a couple things come to mind:
1. you have conditioned him that he can have a negative behavior and get positive feedback for it (check the book The ADD Answer, by Dr. Frank Lawlis, ch.3)...As he grows, they(behaviors) get "bigger", especially when he is not getting the results he wants and immediately.
2. Is he on any Ritalin-based med?
3. Is he diagnosed as having ADD/ADHD and/or autism?

Please, I hope I have not offended you? I am just attempting to help.

Now, as regards my comment 1, I am in no way saying you are doing something bad or wrong...just that kids can be very smart and learn how to "play" us loving, nurturing parental units<G>.My dd with disabilities was a pro! Her tantrums became very aggressive! Taking off a Ritalin-based med, putting her on herbal/homeopathy, and also, when behavior happened she got exactly the opposite of what she was behaving badly about. It worked<G>. She still has some problems, but much more pleasant to be with than when on the drugs and frustrated by public school. BTW, I love unschooling her! So low pressure for both of us, and she does do alot on her own, all things considered.

Blessings!!!
Brina Minka

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Ren Allen

~~Her tantrums became very aggressive! Taking off a Ritalin-based med,
putting her on herbal/homeopathy, and also, when behavior happened she
got exactly the opposite of what she was behaving badly about. It
worked<G>~~

It may have "worked" in the sense that you are manipulating her
behavior, but that does nothing to build trusting relationships.

Why should she need to get to a "tantrum" to be heard/validated or get
what she wants in the first place?

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Kelli Traaseth

Both of my daughter's have done that. Abbi, when she was very young, would hit her head on the floor. She stopped by the time she was around 2. Kyra was older. I think she still did it up until she was 8 or 9. She would get frustrated with something she had done and would hit herself.

I would run to her and hold her and soothe her. We would talk about her feelings of frustration. We talked about different ways to deal with anger, breathing, learning that we make mistakes and not being so hard on ourselves. I validated her feelings and how much we loved her, hoping she would take care of herself and not hurt herself.

I don't know if I did the right thing, but she has stopped. I hope she feels good about herself. I think she does. I didn't want to shame her or anything like that, so I tried to be very thoughtful in how I reacted. Also I tried to make note of what brought it on. Could I have helped her sooner, been more attentive so she wouldn't have gotten so frustrated.

I know I can't always curb her frustration but I can help her to deal with her feelings and be there as much as I can to help her deal with difficult situations.




Kelli~


http://ourjoyfullife.blogspot.com/

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Christian

~~~~~1. you have conditioned him that he can have a negative behavior
and get positive feedback for it (check the book The ADD Answer, by
Dr. Frank Lawlis, ch.3)...As he grows, they(behaviors) get "bigger",
especially when he is not getting the results he wants and
immediately~~~~~~
i understand this logic but we give our children positive feedback
for the positive things that they accomplish......prob not putting
this across the right way right now lol.....he gets several times a
day with just me and him also we when do family things we vote and if
it's something that is "kids only" if they don't agree we sit and
talk about it until we come to a compromise (i.e; we watch my littel
ponies then play a game on x-box)......so i guess i am basically
saying i don't see how he has been conditioned to act this way in
order to get the positive feed back



~~~~~ 2. Is he on any Ritalin-based med?~~~~~~
no we don't do medications unless it is the last resort i don't like
introducing the chemicals to our bodies

~~~~~3. Is he diagnosed as having ADD/ADHD and/or autism?~~~~
we have had some counselors "suggest" he is adhd.....tried some
herbal things and we have seen no change really....i don't feel it is
add/adhd personally.....we have a few people in the family that have
it and several freinds w/children w/it and he is not like any of
them.....i never thought of autism until this week and after reading
the research i called and made an appointment (rather left a message
to get an appointment) and plan on calling back tue to get one asap


~~~Please, I hope I have not offended you? I am just attempting to
help.~~~
i am NOT offended in any way i am looking for help i am worried about
him.......for years i have been told by most "it's a phase" or "not
to worry about it" or "you've conditioned him to to that just ignore
it and he will stop" or "just talk to him about it" the problem is
none of this has helped when we've talked to him about it his
response is either "i can control this mom" or " i like the way it
feels" which is REALLY disturbing.................well on that note
i am going to call my mil and see if she found anything in her old
diaries bc apparently dh was similar to this as a child but not as
bad so maybe she did something i am not.
thank you all,
christian

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Christian"
<christianadele@...> wrote:
>> none of this has helped when we've talked to him about it his
> response is either "i can control this mom" or " i like the way it
> feels" which is REALLY disturbing

That makes me wonder if he's getting enough rough play overall. Some
kids need a lot of really intense physical stimulation to feel okay.
Ray used to do things like this a Lot more when he wasn't getting
enough rough fun - and I do mean Rough. He was always big for his
age, so it was a challenge to find people sturdy enough for him to
rough-house with, but every bit of that helped.

Does your guy like to be pummelled with pillows, rolled up in a
heavy mat and squashed... things of that nature? Ray was into that
sort of thing, but also he liked to do great big body movements of
his own - like jumping off of things, running and running and
running, hitting things as hard as he could.... You might consider
adult-size punching bags for that sort of thing, if your furniture
can't take the beating. Also, inflatable furniture is great for
really intense rough play - just don't expect it to last very long.

The good news is that while Ray's still pretty physical and
energetic, he doesn't need nearly as much intense stimulation as he
used to. So to some extent, it *is* a phase, in that as kids mature
their needs will change, and that includes these kinds of physical
needs. But really physical people tend to stay really physical
lifelong, one way or another. The needs don't go away, they just
change.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Janet

All of this can also be an indication of Sensory Integration
Dysfunction.... and interesting disorder to live with.

Janet in MN

At 08:52 AM 10/8/2007, you wrote:
> >> none of this has helped when we've talked to him about it his
> > response is either "i can control this mom" or " i like the way it
> > feels" which is REALLY disturbing
>
>That makes me wonder if he's getting enough rough play overall. Some
>kids need a lot of really intense physical stimulation to feel okay.
>Ray used to do things like this a Lot more when he wasn't getting
>enough rough fun - and I do mean Rough. He was always big for his
>age, so it was a challenge to find people sturdy enough for him to
>rough-house with, but every bit of that helped.
>
>Does your guy like to be pummelled with pillows, rolled up in a
>heavy mat and squashed... things of that nature? Ray was into that
>sort of thing, but also he liked to do great big body movements of
>his own - like jumping off of things, running and running and
>running, hitting things as hard as he could.... You might consider
>adult-size punching bags for that sort of thing, if your furniture
>can't take the beating. Also, inflatable furniture is great for
>really intense rough play - just don't expect it to last very long.
>
>The good news is that while Ray's still pretty physical and
>energetic, he doesn't need nearly as much intense stimulation as he
>used to. So to some extent, it *is* a phase, in that as kids mature
>their needs will change, and that includes these kinds of physical
>needs. But really physical people tend to stay really physical
>lifelong, one way or another. The needs don't go away, they just
>change.
>
>---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)



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Kelly Weyd

Yep, my 7 year old daughter has it!!! It is interesting for sure!!!!
Kelly

Janet <janeteg@...> wrote:
All of this can also be an indication of Sensory Integration
Dysfunction.... and interesting disorder to live with.

Janet in MN

At 08:52 AM 10/8/2007, you wrote:
> >> none of this has helped when we've talked to him about it his
> > response is either "i can control this mom" or " i like the way it
> > feels" which is REALLY disturbing
>
>That makes me wonder if he's getting enough rough play overall. Some
>kids need a lot of really intense physical stimulation to feel okay.
>Ray used to do things like this a Lot more when he wasn't getting
>enough rough fun - and I do mean Rough. He was always big for his
>age, so it was a challenge to find people sturdy enough for him to
>rough-house with, but every bit of that helped.
>
>Does your guy like to be pummelled with pillows, rolled up in a
>heavy mat and squashed... things of that nature? Ray was into that
>sort of thing, but also he liked to do great big body movements of
>his own - like jumping off of things, running and running and
>running, hitting things as hard as he could.... You might consider
>adult-size punching bags for that sort of thing, if your furniture
>can't take the beating. Also, inflatable furniture is great for
>really intense rough play - just don't expect it to last very long.
>
>The good news is that while Ray's still pretty physical and
>energetic, he doesn't need nearly as much intense stimulation as he
>used to. So to some extent, it *is* a phase, in that as kids mature
>their needs will change, and that includes these kinds of physical
>needs. But really physical people tend to stay really physical
>lifelong, one way or another. The needs don't go away, they just
>change.
>
>---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

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Meredith

--- In [email protected], Janet <janeteg@...> wrote:
>
> All of this can also be an indication of Sensory Integration
> Dysfunction.... and interesting disorder to live with.

From an unschooling standpoint, I think its important to realize
that its not necessary to define a child as having a disorder or
dysfunction in order to find ways to help meet that child's specific
needs. It may be helpful as a way of "explaining" to other parents
and friends why one focuses on meeting those needs, and possibly as
a way of seeking out strategies - but it can also get in the way of
seeing that child as a whole person. Not saying it does
automatically, but it can.

Even descriptive terms like "intense" and "spirited" can turn into
pigeonholes if we're not very very careful with them. My stepson's
mom staunchly resisted any attempts at "diagnosing" Ray, only to
turn around and lable him "difficult". Its something to watch out
for, anyway.

---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)

Janet

Definitely true... but it's also true that in some cases having a
diagnosis and outside help can make all the difference in the world
in a child's behavior and in how the family can function. Without
outside help we would have been lost!! But it's a fine line, to be
sure. If my child was doing damage to his or her body (which mine was
at one point) I would want all the help I could get to help that
child be more comfortable in her body (and mine was not.)

Janet in MN
Tim 26, Andy 23, Paul 20, Becky 17, David 14 and Mary 10

At 12:54 PM 10/8/2007, you wrote:
> > All of this can also be an indication of Sensory Integration
> > Dysfunction.... and interesting disorder to live with.
>
> From an unschooling standpoint, I think its important to realize
>that its not necessary to define a child as having a disorder or
>dysfunction in order to find ways to help meet that child's specific
>needs. It may be helpful as a way of "explaining" to other parents
>and friends why one focuses on meeting those needs, and possibly as
>a way of seeking out strategies - but it can also get in the way of
>seeing that child as a whole person. Not saying it does
>automatically, but it can.
>
>Even descriptive terms like "intense" and "spirited" can turn into
>pigeonholes if we're not very very careful with them. My stepson's
>mom staunchly resisted any attempts at "diagnosing" Ray, only to
>turn around and lable him "difficult". Its something to watch out
>for, anyway.
>
>---Meredith (Mo 6, Ray 14)



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Deb Gibson

Ren,
The majority of her aggressive behavior came when in public school and on the prescription med. I agree with what you say about her not needing to have a tantrum...etc.... That is why I am learning to unschool her. These behaviors originated in the public school setting, not at home with me, until they had gotten so prevalent, by near the end of the last school year, she was also doing them at home. So, I sought out and made changes. And I know I am still learning...that's why I am here<G>. I do see I have much work to do on how I word things to her, as well as when posting<G>.

I am frequently reminding her to just tell me what is wrong instead or her screaming about it (the main "negative" behavior she still exhibits regularly).

I am trying to undo the damages that were done to her, and welcome helpful comments<G>

Blessings!!!
Brina Minka

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/8/2007 7:33:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
janeteg@... writes:

All of this can also be an indication of Sensory Integration
Dysfunction.... and interesting disorder to live with.

Janet in MN


______

Yup, Julian has a VERY mild version of it, and "interesting" is a reality
based expression of it! ;)

Karen PS



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/8/2007 10:56:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
meredith@... writes:

Even descriptive terms like "intense" and "spirited" can turn into
pigeonholes if we're not very very careful with them. My stepson's
mom staunchly resisted any attempts at "diagnosing" Ray, only to
turn around and lable him "difficult". Its something to watch out
for, anyway.



______________________

Yup, I agree with that too. I like having an understanding of Julian's
issues - it helped me grasp that it was NOT him being difficult just to be a poo,
lol...and THAT lead me more deeply into unschooling since it helps allow kids
to be so themselves :) So, we aren't formally diagnosed and I don't see the
need for us, to do so. It's also SUPER helpful for my older kids and for my
DH, who are not all unschooly (yet!) to be able to understand that Julian is
just the way he is because...he IS :)

Karen PS



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lisa

My 6 yr old son has SID.... he is a sensory seeker...he craves deep
pressure mostly... sounds the same as some of the other kids we have
talked about here! The biggest help for kids like this is to make
sure their sensory "diet" is on track. My son craved alot of
crashing type activity... unfortunately HEAD DOWN crashing so we had
to really work hard with an occupational therapist to make sure we
found things he could do safely (like diving into deep water ...
someone always had to OK this activity so we know the water is deep
enough to dive safely!) My brother takes my son out into deep water
on his boat and helps him climb on top of the cabin so he can jump off
from really high up and get a big CRASH! You might work on helping
your son find things that meet his sensory needs ... Carol Kranowich's
book "The Out of Synch Child" talks about how to help your child find
the things that help him feel more "In synch" so he feels safer in
his world. We do lots of jumping into ball pits, pits of foam at
the gym, squeezing into small spaces, being rolled up into blankets
and mats, being smooshed under sofa cushions, pillow fights, punching
bags, jumping, swinging, running... lots of activity. Now on the
other hand my daughter with autism is a sensory avoider... the two of
them living in harmony is a delicate dance!
It's a shame that society sees these things as dysfunctions rather
than just seeing them as who these kids are... I just think of it as
them needing a special diet (sensory) and making sure the things they
need to be fed are on hand.
Lisa Blocker

Kelly Weyd

Lisa,
I've got a sensory seeker too. We do a lot of what you mentioned below. Also by that same author is The Out of Sync Child Has Fun..........lots of great activities in there.
Kelly

Lisa <jlblock01@...> wrote:
My 6 yr old son has SID.... he is a sensory seeker...he craves deep
pressure mostly... sounds the same as some of the other kids we have
talked about here! The biggest help for kids like this is to make
sure their sensory "diet" is on track. My son craved alot of
crashing type activity... unfortunately HEAD DOWN crashing so we had
to really work hard with an occupational therapist to make sure we
found things he could do safely (like diving into deep water ...
someone always had to OK this activity so we know the water is deep
enough to dive safely!) My brother takes my son out into deep water
on his boat and helps him climb on top of the cabin so he can jump off
from really high up and get a big CRASH! You might work on helping
your son find things that meet his sensory needs ... Carol Kranowich's
book "The Out of Synch Child" talks about how to help your child find
the things that help him feel more "In synch" so he feels safer in
his world. We do lots of jumping into ball pits, pits of foam at
the gym, squeezing into small spaces, being rolled up into blankets
and mats, being smooshed under sofa cushions, pillow fights, punching
bags, jumping, swinging, running... lots of activity. Now on the
other hand my daughter with autism is a sensory avoider... the two of
them living in harmony is a delicate dance!
It's a shame that society sees these things as dysfunctions rather
than just seeing them as who these kids are... I just think of it as
them needing a special diet (sensory) and making sure the things they
need to be fed are on hand.
Lisa Blocker






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Rue Kream

>drawing helped for a while but he is no longer interested in drawing. i
don't really know how to keep him from hurting himself!

**Rowan feels a need to physically express her upsets (and her joy, her
excitement, etc.). Some things she's found helpful:

-a collection of things to squeeze - varying in texture, shape, and
firmness. These are the most portable option, and we keep them all over
the place.

-a big trampoline outside and a mini-tramp inside

-a punching bag

-a balance board

-an indoor swing

-a big pile of pillows to bury herself in


At six Rowan used all of these things pretty regularly. She's ten now,
and in the past four years she's developed all sorts of internal tools.
She'll plop down and meditate or just close her eyes and take a few deep
breaths. But she still sometimes needs to squeeze or pinch or jump or
punch or just move in some big way, so we keep all of these things (and
more) easily available. ~Rue







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