Zoa Conner

I am new here and have a question. How do you all handle lessons/classes
which require practice or work at home? My ds8 takes Suzuki violin lessons,
and always grouses about practicing at home. He often will not practice at
all, especially if we have out of the house activities that day. He knows
that when practices, his lesson go more to his liking, he progresses faster,
and is happier. But that is not enough to get him to actually practice. Any
comments/ideas on good ways to deal with or ignore this situation?

Thanks,
Zoa

Ren Allen

~~But that is not enough to get him to actually practice. Any
comments/ideas on good ways to deal with or ignore this situation?~~

I think you have to ask yourself the purpose behind the Suzuki
lessons. If he's truly learning for the sheer joy of the instrument,
he really doesn't need any lessons yet at all. If he truly wants the
lessons, let him take from it exactly what he chooses. Being pushed to
practice kills all joy of playing...trust me (as a child that was
prodded too much and learned to resent lessons and playing of any kind).

I really am not a big fan of Suzuki unless a child is driven and wants
it. Suzuki's goal seems to be turning out virtuosos. My goal as a
parent is to help my children pursue things for the sheer joy of the
activity.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

decjec

--
Hi,
Not that I have an answer for you but have you read John Holt's
Learning All the Time? He has a very good chapter about Suzuki Violin.
My daughter takes piano and she practices when she wants to. I
sometimes ask her if she would like to practice and she says yes or
no. If it is to be "her" lessons then she is going to get out of if
what she needs and wants, not what I need or want. If you would like
your child to have a love of music than it has to come from their
desire (not what John Holt says just my opinion.)
Danette


- In [email protected], Zoa Conner <zoaconner@...> wrote:
>
> I am new here and have a question. How do you all handle lessons/classes
> which require practice or work at home? My ds8 takes Suzuki violin
lessons,
> and always grouses about practicing at home. He often will not
practice at
> all, especially if we have out of the house activities that day. He
knows
> that when practices, his lesson go more to his liking, he progresses
faster,
> and is happier. But that is not enough to get him to actually
practice. Any
> comments/ideas on good ways to deal with or ignore this situation?
>
> Thanks,
> Zoa
>

dana_burdick

I was about 8 when I became really frustrated with piano. My mother
did not push me to practice in any way, but did not help either. One
day I sat at the piano crying in frustration because there was
something I did not understand. My mother said to me, "I have a
suggestion. Quit." So I did. I didn't pick up the piano again until
I was twelve.

I'm glad that my mom was not a pusher (oh, that didn't come out right
<bwg>), but at the same time I wish she would have taken more
interest in _helping_ me through that frustrating time when I was
eight.

Instead of thinking that your son should be practicing more, think of
how you can help him. The big question though is what does help look
like. For me, it would been extremely helpful if my mom was just
present in the room with me. Not sitting on the piano bench or
asking me a bunch of questions, but just being there. The other
thing that would have helped is if she became familiar herself with
the instrument and kept a dialogue with the teacher. My mom just
sent me down the street to the teacher's house and never spoke to
her. As it turns out, when I quit it was over a simple
misunderstanding about finger placement. It would have been such a
simple thing to clear up the confusion I had.

In your son's case, help may look like doing nothing. It could look
like getting some piano CDs and listening to them for your
enjoyment. It most certainly will include knowing what the teacher
is doing in his lessons. You don't have to have a discussion every
week with your son (that could just be annoying for him), but if you
are familiar with the nuances of the teacher's interaction with your
son, it may give you a better idea of what help looks like.

I will say, if my mom even once, had asked me if I had practiced that
day, there is a big chance that I would have never returned to the
piano at twelve. IMO, it is actually better that he never ever
practices than asking him to practice. To this day, I totally own
the work I have done in piano. I never credit my mother for making
me practice. I credit only myself and my love for the instrument. I
still play and still practice and still dream of playing even
better. It's a life long passion for sure.

-Dana

T&R JAM....

I am new to unschooling but have been doing the suzuki violin and
cello with both of my girls since they were about 5. my oldest
started because she wanted to and wouldn't stop bugging us. To be
honest my youngest I think started becasue big sister was fun to
watch and because mom and dad helped her, so there for,she also
started for attention purposes. But having been through the 'I don't
want to practice,' to 'I love to practice and play in front of
people,' a little advice I would give is to relax. Do group lessons
(my girls both love these more than lesson day). And go to suzuki
camp. At camp they meet other kids and play all these silly games
that you can go home and do. When my girls come home from suzuki camp
they are so excited to play and often go for an hour or more playing
and listening to their peices even just making up some music on their
own. Find a teacher that is fun and plays games with them. This is
as important as posture a teacher that is not fun will kill any
interest in any thing (just like school). Attend the lessons every
week. There are books that are for suzuki teachers that have games
and such for each song they play. Try to find one. And don't be
disapointed if they don't want to play and want to quit. Maybe they
just wanted to see if they could do it and now that he proved he
could he wants to try something else. The only way to see if you
like something is to try it, give it a good shot and sometimes you
like it sometimes you don't. Just make sure that he know no matter
what you love him and support his decision.
--- In [email protected], "dana_burdick"
<DanaBurdick@...> wrote:
>
> I was about 8 when I became really frustrated with piano. My
mother
> did not push me to practice in any way, but did not help either.
One
> day I sat at the piano crying in frustration because there was
> something I did not understand. My mother said to me, "I have a
> suggestion. Quit." So I did. I didn't pick up the piano again
until
> I was twelve.
>
> I'm glad that my mom was not a pusher (oh, that didn't come out
right
> <bwg>), but at the same time I wish she would have taken more
> interest in _helping_ me through that frustrating time when I was
> eight.
>
> Instead of thinking that your son should be practicing more, think
of
> how you can help him. The big question though is what does help
look
> like. For me, it would been extremely helpful if my mom was just
> present in the room with me. Not sitting on the piano bench or
> asking me a bunch of questions, but just being there. The other
> thing that would have helped is if she became familiar herself with
> the instrument and kept a dialogue with the teacher. My mom just
> sent me down the street to the teacher's house and never spoke to
> her. As it turns out, when I quit it was over a simple
> misunderstanding about finger placement. It would have been such a
> simple thing to clear up the confusion I had.
>
> In your son's case, help may look like doing nothing. It could
look
> like getting some piano CDs and listening to them for your
> enjoyment. It most certainly will include knowing what the teacher
> is doing in his lessons. You don't have to have a discussion every
> week with your son (that could just be annoying for him), but if
you
> are familiar with the nuances of the teacher's interaction with
your
> son, it may give you a better idea of what help looks like.
>
> I will say, if my mom even once, had asked me if I had practiced
that
> day, there is a big chance that I would have never returned to the
> piano at twelve. IMO, it is actually better that he never ever
> practices than asking him to practice. To this day, I totally own
> the work I have done in piano. I never credit my mother for making
> me practice. I credit only myself and my love for the instrument.
I
> still play and still practice and still dream of playing even
> better. It's a life long passion for sure.
>
> -Dana
>

hbmccarty

As a follow up to the speech disfluency email, I have a related concern
that I was interested in getting some input on. My son, age 14, who has
had the sudden re-occurrence of stuttering, has been for the first time
in his life teased about it- kids at his summer job are imitating him
and calling attention to his stutter. He has asked them to stop and they
have not. He is considering saying something to the supervisor about it-
this is happening when he is not is the room. One kid took his name tag
and threw it down a hole in an exhibit(he works at a science center),
another threw things at his face repeatedly. Unless the supervisor is a
skilled communicator, I fear that his intervention is likely to worsen
the situation. Fortunately this is only a six week position and he is
half way through, so finishing it gracefully is not seeming impossible,
though I would support him in whatever he feels he needs to do.

So this is the toughening up that kids are supposed to receive when they
go to school? These are all schooled kids he is working with. I feel so
sad that kids endure this day after day.

Any suggestions on effective things one could say or do in this kind of
situation? He did experience something similar at an afterschool program
but there we were able to quickly find a substitute of a similar
activity with only homeschooled kids. He was much younger then and I
spoke directly with the leader of that program, who listened and
admitted that they needed to supervise the kids more closely. I am
pretty sure at the age he is now that having me get involved directly is
NOT what he wants- though certainly I am here to listen, support, and
make suggestions.

Heather

hbmccarty

My kids both take music lessons(ages 10 and 14). They did both start
playing an instrument without lessons and then both requested lessons.
May son started at 11, and my daughter started a couple of months ago.
Since "improvement" comes both during breaks from playing and with
playing, and the patterns of amounts of playing ebb and flow, it has
worked best for us not to request that they practice. Sometimes they
request that I remind them to practice. Mostly they just pick up the
instrument and play- sometimes for 5 minutes, sometimes all day. There
was an article in Life Learning Magazine that discussed this topic, and
suggested that parents not refer to the playing as practice- as the
playing that is done as "practice" is done for enjoyment, and not in
preparation for something else.

Dana's point about helping the child is a good one. I help my children
frequently as they request, often by listening, sometimes suggesting
something if they are open to a suggestion - such as using a metronome,
or finding a recording of the piece, maybe reminding them of something a
teacher has suggested. This is only is they are open to it and have
invited participation. It may be talking to a teacher about an issue,
attending a lesson with them, getting the instrument repaired, or
improved, offering opportunities to play in groups. When my son(14) has
made a commitment to playing with a group, he will want help organizing
his day so that there is enough time to prepare for that. He will leave
a note asking me to wake him up in enough time before work so he can
play scales. If it is getting late in the day and we are all planning to
go to bed soon(our house is small), I will ask him if he wants to play
before the time at which we request that things quiet down so that Dad
can get enough sleep before going to work(he is a carpenter and needs
especially to be alert). He usually does want to play, and the reminder
is only to help him avoid the frustration of wanting to play and not
having enough time to do it.

I do help my son quite a bit with planning his time, when he requests,
or I offer when he seems to be getting frustrated- we sit down together
and make a schedule. I guess I could just let him experience the
consequences of his own forgetfulness, but this seems a little cruel. He
tends to take on quite a bit at times, with rehearsals, work etc.


Heather



Zoa Conner wrote:
>
> I am new here and have a question. How do you all handle lessons/classes
> which require practice or work at home? My ds8 takes Suzuki violin
> lessons,
> and always grouses about practicing at home. He often will not practice at
> all, especially if we have out of the house activities that day. He knows
> that when practices, his lesson go more to his liking, he progresses
> faster,
> and is happier. But that is not enough to get him to actually
> practice. Any
> comments/ideas on good ways to deal with or ignore this situation?
>
> Thanks,
> Zoa
>
>

Sylvia Toyama

Unless the supervisor is a skilled communicator, I fear that his intervention is likely to worsen the situation. Fortunately this is only a six week position and he is
half way through, so finishing it gracefully is not seeming impossible,
though I would support him in whatever he feels he needs to do.

****
I'm sorry he's having to deal with this. Sure, it's only 6 weeks, but that's still 6 weeks too long to be mistreated by anyone.

****
So this is the toughening up that kids are supposed to receive when they go to school? These are all schooled kids he is working with. I feel so sad that kids endure this day after day.

******
yep -- mainstream folks call it "kids can be so cruel" and say it's just something kids should ignore or to get over it. Really, it's the way any inmate group will behave, and kids in school are nothing more than inmates with very poor supervision and no real power, except to hurt each other.

*****
Any suggestions on effective things one could say or do in this kind of situation?

*****

Given his age, I wouldn't recommend getting involved yourself unless he asks you to. He could try talking to the supervisor if he feels comfortable doing so, and if he's willing to risk that talking to the boss might only anger the other kids, leading to more abuse. It's hard to say what will really happen. How much authority does the supervisor have to stop the teasing? Is there a process in place with the museum's management to deal with such situations? Are these kids he'll run into again and have to deal with to pursue his own dreams? What would he consider progress, and how much genuine progress can be realistically expected given the real limits of how difficult it is to control employees/interns?

At a minimum, if he just chooses to tough it out now and not say anything to his boss, I'd encourage him to write up a letter about the teasing he encountered and submitting that to whatever powers that be at the museum. It may not help him in this situation, but could prevent others from being teased the same way, if the museum realizes there's a problem in the program and the way the students involved conduct themselves.

Sylvia


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Meredith

--- In [email protected], hbmccarty <hbmccarty@...>
wrote:
>> Since "improvement" comes both during breaks from playing and with
> playing, and the patterns of amounts of playing ebb and flow, it has
> worked best for us not to request that they practice.

This is an important point, that skills can actutally improve by not-
practicing. I've seen it with skills besides music, too - yoga and
reading and knitting and parenting ;) There's an ebb and flow to all
kinds of learning.

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

wisdomalways5

--- In [email protected], hbmccarty <hbmccarty@...>
wrote:
>
> As a follow up to the speech disfluency email, I have a related
concern
> that I was interested in getting some input on. My son, age 14,
who has
> had the sudden re-occurrence of stuttering, has been for the first
time
> in his life teased about it- kids at his summer job are imitating
him
> and calling attention to his stutter. He has asked them to stop
and they
> have not. He is considering saying something to the supervisor
about it-

Talking to the supervisor is a little like tattling and they are
more likely to make it worse for your son.It may help you be able to
deal with it if you imagine what and adult should do in this
situation. I would have your son if he is capable of it talk to the
supervisor not trying to get them to stop but expalining that it is
really difficult to work by them and if he could be moved to a
different dept. Also I would ask him if he would like to quit and
either you or he lets the supervisor know why he is quiting.



>
> So this is the toughening up that kids are supposed to receive
when they
> go to school? These are all schooled kids he is working with. I
feel so
> sad that kids endure this day after day.

This is not toughing up it is being a bully and abusive regardless
of if it occurs to kids or adults.


JulieH