Visit with my sister brings up questions
Elenita Santaballa
I am a new parent (DS is 7 mo.) and am busy
deschooling myself. My sister and I are extremely
close, and DH is very close with her husband--although
we live on separate coasts. We are godparents to her
2 children, etc. etc. Prior to starting our own
family, DH and I made the decision to purchase a home
across the street from my sister and her family, with
the idea that we would spend part of our time there so
our kids could spend time together.
I have always thought that my sister was a great
parent, but now that I have a child of my own, I am
finding myself with some questions about her parenting
style. I am trying hard not to find fault with her
parenting, but simply to learn through observation
some things that might help me with my own parenting
style.
This current trip is bringing up a lot of questions.
I will start with one. Our first day here, my niece
invited us to her last day of camp to see her final
project. Afterward, she wanted to come home with me
and the baby. Her mother (my sister) reminded her
that she had swim team practice which she had already
missed earlier in the week. My niece became very
upset, crying and insisting that she wanted to spend
time with her baby cousin. At which point my sister
dragged her kicking and screaming away to her own car.
Later, I asked how swim team practice had gone. My
niece said that it had been great, that she had spent
a lot of time afterward playing in the pool, and that
she hadn't realized how much she needed the time in
the pool.
So here is my totally naive question. Aren't there
going to be times that a parent knows better than the
child what the child truly needs? And if so, how do
we help our children to get their needs met without
having to resort to physical restraint?
I am thinking that perhaps this particular situation
was one where it wouldn't have really caused any harm
for my niece to not spend some needed time blowing off
steam at the pool. It might have been just as good
for her to spend some time with me and her baby
cousin. My personal feeling is that perhaps the
relationship between parent and child is more
important than the parents' need to be right. So my
example isn't a great one--just the one that started
me questioning.
How does one know, like Heather and her son's speech
therapy, how to choose whether or not to intervene?
And does intervention itself go against the whole
unschooling philosophy?
Thanks if you've made it this far.
Elena
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
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deschooling myself. My sister and I are extremely
close, and DH is very close with her husband--although
we live on separate coasts. We are godparents to her
2 children, etc. etc. Prior to starting our own
family, DH and I made the decision to purchase a home
across the street from my sister and her family, with
the idea that we would spend part of our time there so
our kids could spend time together.
I have always thought that my sister was a great
parent, but now that I have a child of my own, I am
finding myself with some questions about her parenting
style. I am trying hard not to find fault with her
parenting, but simply to learn through observation
some things that might help me with my own parenting
style.
This current trip is bringing up a lot of questions.
I will start with one. Our first day here, my niece
invited us to her last day of camp to see her final
project. Afterward, she wanted to come home with me
and the baby. Her mother (my sister) reminded her
that she had swim team practice which she had already
missed earlier in the week. My niece became very
upset, crying and insisting that she wanted to spend
time with her baby cousin. At which point my sister
dragged her kicking and screaming away to her own car.
Later, I asked how swim team practice had gone. My
niece said that it had been great, that she had spent
a lot of time afterward playing in the pool, and that
she hadn't realized how much she needed the time in
the pool.
So here is my totally naive question. Aren't there
going to be times that a parent knows better than the
child what the child truly needs? And if so, how do
we help our children to get their needs met without
having to resort to physical restraint?
I am thinking that perhaps this particular situation
was one where it wouldn't have really caused any harm
for my niece to not spend some needed time blowing off
steam at the pool. It might have been just as good
for her to spend some time with me and her baby
cousin. My personal feeling is that perhaps the
relationship between parent and child is more
important than the parents' need to be right. So my
example isn't a great one--just the one that started
me questioning.
How does one know, like Heather and her son's speech
therapy, how to choose whether or not to intervene?
And does intervention itself go against the whole
unschooling philosophy?
Thanks if you've made it this far.
Elena
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/16/2007 8:22:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
esantaballa@... writes:
How does one know, like Heather and her son's speech
therapy, how to choose whether or not to intervene?
And does intervention itself go against the whole
unschooling philosophy?
I struggle with this too, and for me, my own answer is simple, yet I had to
teach it to myself over the years: Listen to your heart.
It's juts my main form of answers for my main types of questions, lol...It
may be a sappy sort of reply, but it's earnest and sincere.
Karen
(in Cal.)
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
esantaballa@... writes:
How does one know, like Heather and her son's speech
therapy, how to choose whether or not to intervene?
And does intervention itself go against the whole
unschooling philosophy?
I struggle with this too, and for me, my own answer is simple, yet I had to
teach it to myself over the years: Listen to your heart.
It's juts my main form of answers for my main types of questions, lol...It
may be a sappy sort of reply, but it's earnest and sincere.
Karen
(in Cal.)
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~So here is my totally naive question. Aren't there
going to be times that a parent knows better than the
child what the child truly needs? And if so, how do
we help our children to get their needs met without
having to resort to physical restraint?~~
Sure there are times a parent knows better, mainly because they've
lived long enough and have the developmental ability to see danger
where a very young child can't. Of course we know that a child needs
healthy food and a safe house and clean water...things a child can't
provide for themselves at a very young age once again. But that has
nothing to do with autonomy or restraint. That has to do with
providing a nurturing environment.
It's hard to answer a general question about physical restraint,
because it depends on the specific situation. But I can't imagine
forcing my child into a vehicle to attend a swimming lesson or swim team.
Even when the child decides it was a good choice, they've been taught
in that instance that they can't be trusted to make a good choice for
their own lives. Now the seeds of doubt are beginning to be planted.
"I can't make a good choice, Mom needs to make me do things" may be
what they start to believe.
I'd rather have my child supported in their choices and if they feel
they could make a better choice next time, it still came from within
them.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
going to be times that a parent knows better than the
child what the child truly needs? And if so, how do
we help our children to get their needs met without
having to resort to physical restraint?~~
Sure there are times a parent knows better, mainly because they've
lived long enough and have the developmental ability to see danger
where a very young child can't. Of course we know that a child needs
healthy food and a safe house and clean water...things a child can't
provide for themselves at a very young age once again. But that has
nothing to do with autonomy or restraint. That has to do with
providing a nurturing environment.
It's hard to answer a general question about physical restraint,
because it depends on the specific situation. But I can't imagine
forcing my child into a vehicle to attend a swimming lesson or swim team.
Even when the child decides it was a good choice, they've been taught
in that instance that they can't be trusted to make a good choice for
their own lives. Now the seeds of doubt are beginning to be planted.
"I can't make a good choice, Mom needs to make me do things" may be
what they start to believe.
I'd rather have my child supported in their choices and if they feel
they could make a better choice next time, it still came from within
them.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Johanna
Hello from Germany,
But think about it: If you were forced to for instance, climb up a mountain, when you'd
rather go see your friends, wouldn't you be "happy" at the top of the mountain anyway,
even if you had been moaning all the way up? People are also happy to finish school as well
;-) That doesn't mean they need it.
And if the child you described really didn't know how much she needed it how will she
ever know about her own needs, if someone is constantly deciding what she'll do, even
before she really *feels* what's going on with her body, with her soul, with her whole self?
When there's nobody anymore to tell her what to do, she won't even have her feelings to
guide her, because either they were ignored, or they were avoided.
It's the same as not letting your children decide whether to put on shoes or not. Even if it's
snowing outside, if your child wants to go out without shoes let it, although you surely
know, what's best for him! You'll bring the shoes along, of course. After 1 Minute of cold
feet, the child will have experienced the coldness and will ask for shoes. Next time you tell
him that it's snowing outside, he'll probably know what that is all about.
Most probably, she DIDN'T know about her needs, BECAUSE her mother keeps deciding for
her!
A better approach of the problem might have been: "Of course you can stay with your
baby-cousin". If the child had later complained about missing class and needing the
excercise, mother could ask, if she should remind her next time it happens. Or just say
nothing and just *understand her feelings* and be compasionate (not: "I told you you'd
make the wrong choice") you don't have to "make" your child happy at all times nor do
you need to avoid unhappyness at all times! You need to let your children room for making
their own experiences, so they can make their own decissions based on their own needs
(and not the "need" of the parent to have a happy child in the evening, so the evening
doesn't get spoiled or something).
This way, they WILL get more and more competent about making choices that DO need
their needs, plus, they have their loving parents at their back, helping them and supporting
their choices, showing them that they trust in the child's competence to make good choices
now, isn't that a better basis to grow self confidence on?
Of course you can inform the child before: "It's snowing outside, it might be cold on your
feet" "But remember how much you missed Swim class last week! Are you sure you wanna
stay?" The decision is the child's to make.
The only exception I make is with danger. Of course you interfere, if your child is about to
run on the street and would kill himself. Though to decide what's "dangerous" is another
topic alltogether (some parents think it's dangerous to unschool ;-) ). But not going to
swim class is definitely *not* dangerous!
Greetings
Johanna
www.unerzogen.de (German)
P.S.: Hey, swimming MIGHT be even more dangerous ;-)
>What you brought up is something we do all struggle with.
> So here is my totally naive question. Aren't there
> going to be times that a parent knows better than the
> child what the child truly needs? And if so, how do
> we help our children to get their needs met without
> having to resort to physical restraint?
>
> How does one know, like Heather and her son's speech
> therapy, how to choose whether or not to intervene?
> And does intervention itself go against the whole
> unschooling philosophy?
>
But think about it: If you were forced to for instance, climb up a mountain, when you'd
rather go see your friends, wouldn't you be "happy" at the top of the mountain anyway,
even if you had been moaning all the way up? People are also happy to finish school as well
;-) That doesn't mean they need it.
And if the child you described really didn't know how much she needed it how will she
ever know about her own needs, if someone is constantly deciding what she'll do, even
before she really *feels* what's going on with her body, with her soul, with her whole self?
When there's nobody anymore to tell her what to do, she won't even have her feelings to
guide her, because either they were ignored, or they were avoided.
It's the same as not letting your children decide whether to put on shoes or not. Even if it's
snowing outside, if your child wants to go out without shoes let it, although you surely
know, what's best for him! You'll bring the shoes along, of course. After 1 Minute of cold
feet, the child will have experienced the coldness and will ask for shoes. Next time you tell
him that it's snowing outside, he'll probably know what that is all about.
Most probably, she DIDN'T know about her needs, BECAUSE her mother keeps deciding for
her!
A better approach of the problem might have been: "Of course you can stay with your
baby-cousin". If the child had later complained about missing class and needing the
excercise, mother could ask, if she should remind her next time it happens. Or just say
nothing and just *understand her feelings* and be compasionate (not: "I told you you'd
make the wrong choice") you don't have to "make" your child happy at all times nor do
you need to avoid unhappyness at all times! You need to let your children room for making
their own experiences, so they can make their own decissions based on their own needs
(and not the "need" of the parent to have a happy child in the evening, so the evening
doesn't get spoiled or something).
This way, they WILL get more and more competent about making choices that DO need
their needs, plus, they have their loving parents at their back, helping them and supporting
their choices, showing them that they trust in the child's competence to make good choices
now, isn't that a better basis to grow self confidence on?
Of course you can inform the child before: "It's snowing outside, it might be cold on your
feet" "But remember how much you missed Swim class last week! Are you sure you wanna
stay?" The decision is the child's to make.
The only exception I make is with danger. Of course you interfere, if your child is about to
run on the street and would kill himself. Though to decide what's "dangerous" is another
topic alltogether (some parents think it's dangerous to unschool ;-) ). But not going to
swim class is definitely *not* dangerous!
Greetings
Johanna
www.unerzogen.de (German)
P.S.: Hey, swimming MIGHT be even more dangerous ;-)
Johanna
Hello from Germany,
But think about it: If you were forced to for instance, climb up a mountain, when you'd
rather go see your friends, wouldn't you be "happy" at the top of the mountain anyway,
even if you had been moaning all the way up? People are also happy to finish school as well
;-) That doesn't mean they need it.
And if the child you described really didn't know how much she needed it how will she
ever know about her own needs, if someone is constantly deciding what she'll do, even
before she really *feels* what's going on with her body, with her soul, with her whole self?
When there's nobody anymore to tell her what to do, she won't even have her feelings to
guide her, because either they were ignored, or they were avoided.
It's the same as not letting your children decide whether to put on shoes or not. Even if it's
snowing outside, if your child wants to go out without shoes let it, although you surely
know, what's best for him! You'll bring the shoes along, of course. After 1 Minute of cold
feet, the child will have experienced the coldness and will ask for shoes. Next time you tell
him that it's snowing outside, he'll probably know what that is all about.
Most probably, she DIDN'T know about her needs, BECAUSE her mother keeps deciding for
her!
A better approach of the problem might have been: "Of course you can stay with your
baby-cousin". If the child had later complained about missing class and needing the
excercise, mother could ask, if she should remind her next time it happens. Or just say
nothing and just *understand her feelings* and be compasionate (not: "I told you you'd
make the wrong choice") you don't have to "make" your child happy at all times nor do
you need to avoid unhappyness at all times! You need to let your children room for making
their own experiences, so they can make their own decissions based on their own needs
(and not the "need" of the parent to have a happy child in the evening, so the evening
doesn't get spoiled or something).
This way, they WILL get more and more competent about making choices that DO need
their needs, plus, they have their loving parents at their back, helping them and supporting
their choices, showing them that they trust in the child's competence to make good choices
now, isn't that a better basis to grow self confidence on?
Of course you can inform the child before: "It's snowing outside, it might be cold on your
feet" "But remember how much you missed Swim class last week! Are you sure you wanna
stay?" The decision is the child's to make.
The only exception I make is with danger. Of course you interfere, if your child is about to
run on the street and would kill himself. Though to decide what's "dangerous" is another
topic alltogether (some parents think it's dangerous to unschool ;-) ). But not going to
swim class is definitely *not* dangerous!
Greetings
Johanna
www.unerzogen.de (German)
P.S.: Hey, swimming MIGHT be even more dangerous ;-)
>What you brought up is something we do all struggle with.
> So here is my totally naive question. Aren't there
> going to be times that a parent knows better than the
> child what the child truly needs? And if so, how do
> we help our children to get their needs met without
> having to resort to physical restraint?
>
> How does one know, like Heather and her son's speech
> therapy, how to choose whether or not to intervene?
> And does intervention itself go against the whole
> unschooling philosophy?
>
But think about it: If you were forced to for instance, climb up a mountain, when you'd
rather go see your friends, wouldn't you be "happy" at the top of the mountain anyway,
even if you had been moaning all the way up? People are also happy to finish school as well
;-) That doesn't mean they need it.
And if the child you described really didn't know how much she needed it how will she
ever know about her own needs, if someone is constantly deciding what she'll do, even
before she really *feels* what's going on with her body, with her soul, with her whole self?
When there's nobody anymore to tell her what to do, she won't even have her feelings to
guide her, because either they were ignored, or they were avoided.
It's the same as not letting your children decide whether to put on shoes or not. Even if it's
snowing outside, if your child wants to go out without shoes let it, although you surely
know, what's best for him! You'll bring the shoes along, of course. After 1 Minute of cold
feet, the child will have experienced the coldness and will ask for shoes. Next time you tell
him that it's snowing outside, he'll probably know what that is all about.
Most probably, she DIDN'T know about her needs, BECAUSE her mother keeps deciding for
her!
A better approach of the problem might have been: "Of course you can stay with your
baby-cousin". If the child had later complained about missing class and needing the
excercise, mother could ask, if she should remind her next time it happens. Or just say
nothing and just *understand her feelings* and be compasionate (not: "I told you you'd
make the wrong choice") you don't have to "make" your child happy at all times nor do
you need to avoid unhappyness at all times! You need to let your children room for making
their own experiences, so they can make their own decissions based on their own needs
(and not the "need" of the parent to have a happy child in the evening, so the evening
doesn't get spoiled or something).
This way, they WILL get more and more competent about making choices that DO need
their needs, plus, they have their loving parents at their back, helping them and supporting
their choices, showing them that they trust in the child's competence to make good choices
now, isn't that a better basis to grow self confidence on?
Of course you can inform the child before: "It's snowing outside, it might be cold on your
feet" "But remember how much you missed Swim class last week! Are you sure you wanna
stay?" The decision is the child's to make.
The only exception I make is with danger. Of course you interfere, if your child is about to
run on the street and would kill himself. Though to decide what's "dangerous" is another
topic alltogether (some parents think it's dangerous to unschool ;-) ). But not going to
swim class is definitely *not* dangerous!
Greetings
Johanna
www.unerzogen.de (German)
P.S.: Hey, swimming MIGHT be even more dangerous ;-)
Nance Confer
unschoolingbasicsI will start with one. Our first day here, my niece
invited us to her last day of camp to see her final
project. Afterward, she wanted to come home with me
and the baby. Her mother (my sister) reminded her
that she had swim team practice which she had already
missed earlier in the week. My niece became very
upset, crying and insisting that she wanted to spend
time with her baby cousin. At which point my sister
dragged her kicking and screaming away to her own car.
**********
My 2 cents --
Judging by your sister's physical ability to drag this child against her will, I'll guess she's young.
And maybe overscheduled. She has camp in the morning and swim team after that? And company visiting. Sounds like a lot to me.
And, as in many situations like this that come up, it sounds like there was no discussion beforehand. If the night before your sister had talked to her daugher about their plans for the coming day and reminded her when she got up and continued to discuss what was coming up next as the day went on, and then added a reassurance about seeing you and the baby later in the day or whenever that was actually going to happen -- I'm thinking things might have gone more smoothly.
And, if during those conversations, your sister's child had been able to plan far enough ahead to know that she wanted to skip swim team and see her relatives, nobody would have been put on the spot right at the end of a busy camp day. Sister would have had a chance to calmly think about it instead of feeling she needed to look like a "good parent" and her child could have expressed her wishes earlier.
At no point would I have been wrestling my child into the car though. The swim team will survive without her and if she really misses going she could then speak up and learn about making plans and keeping them in her own time. And if she was antsy during the visit that didn't happen, that need could have been met with a walk or whatever.
There are a lot of choices in these situations. Planning ahead and talking about those plans, especially with young children who may not remember what we all planned to do yesterday, is key.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
invited us to her last day of camp to see her final
project. Afterward, she wanted to come home with me
and the baby. Her mother (my sister) reminded her
that she had swim team practice which she had already
missed earlier in the week. My niece became very
upset, crying and insisting that she wanted to spend
time with her baby cousin. At which point my sister
dragged her kicking and screaming away to her own car.
**********
My 2 cents --
Judging by your sister's physical ability to drag this child against her will, I'll guess she's young.
And maybe overscheduled. She has camp in the morning and swim team after that? And company visiting. Sounds like a lot to me.
And, as in many situations like this that come up, it sounds like there was no discussion beforehand. If the night before your sister had talked to her daugher about their plans for the coming day and reminded her when she got up and continued to discuss what was coming up next as the day went on, and then added a reassurance about seeing you and the baby later in the day or whenever that was actually going to happen -- I'm thinking things might have gone more smoothly.
And, if during those conversations, your sister's child had been able to plan far enough ahead to know that she wanted to skip swim team and see her relatives, nobody would have been put on the spot right at the end of a busy camp day. Sister would have had a chance to calmly think about it instead of feeling she needed to look like a "good parent" and her child could have expressed her wishes earlier.
At no point would I have been wrestling my child into the car though. The swim team will survive without her and if she really misses going she could then speak up and learn about making plans and keeping them in her own time. And if she was antsy during the visit that didn't happen, that need could have been met with a walk or whatever.
There are a lot of choices in these situations. Planning ahead and talking about those plans, especially with young children who may not remember what we all planned to do yesterday, is key.
Nance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]