[email protected]

Ok, I should elaborate more, No I have never met a 7 yo who wants to
watch graphic violence or sex. I used the bloody penis example because
that is what was in the Superjail show.
My hypothetical was only asking IF my 7 yo wanted to watch adult
swim.......big if, i would not allow this, i set limits on the type of
television my 7 yo can watch, so my question is, why is this considered
not an unschooling frame of mind to set limits even if its for a 7 yo?

Diane

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: rn930@...

Ok, I should elaborate more, No I have never met a 7 yo who wants to
watch graphic violence or sex.

-=-=-=-=-=

Because they don't.

So why would they need to be kept from watching?

-=-==-=-

My hypothetical was only asking IF my 7 yo wanted to watch adult
swim......

-=-=-=-=-=-

But she DOESN'T, so WHY would it be an issue to begin with?

THAT's why hypotheticals don't work. Because you're making something up
that hasn't/won't happen.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

big if, i would not allow this, i set limits on the type of
television my 7 yo can watch,

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

WHY, if she wouldn't choose to watch these things in the first place?

If you tell me you wouldn't choose to watch Kill Bill or SuperJail, WHY
would your husband need to putt that limit on you? Why couldn't he just
accept that it's not something you wouldn't watch. That would be that.
No limits.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

so my question is, why is this considered
not an unschooling frame of mind to set limits even if its for a 7 yo?

-=-=-=-=-

Because it inhibits the trust and respect that you're trying to
develop. It eats away at your relationship.

Oh---and at what age would you consider removing all limits? Ten?
Twelve? 18? 25? Hoe would you go about doing that?



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
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rn9302000

I think I am not expressing myself properly ....I don't know,
The only reason I put the hypothetical out there in regards to violent
tv was from the other post, where it was stated that the poster should
trust her child to know whether he wants to watch violent tv.......I
was just putting it out there to ask if the same were to be true if it
was a young child.
Do the "no limits" on anything apply to kids of all ages? I don't put
limits for instance on food. We try to eat healthy and set a good
example, but if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and
nothing else if i let him.





--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rn930@...
>
> Ok, I should elaborate more, No I have never met a 7 yo who wants to
> watch graphic violence or sex.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=
>
> Because they don't.
>
> So why would they need to be kept from watching?
>
> -=-==-=-
>
> My hypothetical was only asking IF my 7 yo wanted to watch adult
> swim......
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> But she DOESN'T, so WHY would it be an issue to begin with?
>
> THAT's why hypotheticals don't work. Because you're making something up
> that hasn't/won't happen.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> big if, i would not allow this, i set limits on the type of
> television my 7 yo can watch,
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> WHY, if she wouldn't choose to watch these things in the first place?
>
> If you tell me you wouldn't choose to watch Kill Bill or SuperJail, WHY
> would your husband need to putt that limit on you? Why couldn't he just
> accept that it's not something you wouldn't watch. That would be that.
> No limits.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> so my question is, why is this considered
> not an unschooling frame of mind to set limits even if its for a 7 yo?
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Because it inhibits the trust and respect that you're trying to
> develop. It eats away at your relationship.
>
> Oh---and at what age would you consider removing all limits? Ten?
> Twelve? 18? 25? Hoe would you go about doing that?
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>

Laila Maouli

Hallo,

I'm Laila and most of the time I just read along. But with the question if
you 've ever seen an 7y old watch graphic sex or violence I wanted to tell
you about our family.

I have an 8y old son who loves to watch mangacartoons. They are filled with
sex and violence, bud he finds real porno disgusting even when my dh and I
are kissing he's almost throwing up:-)(even just talking or thinking about
it makes him shiver). And what about violent movies? He's afraid to watch
them. So I asked him what it is then what he likes about manga's. The
answer: the graphics, he likes the way it's drawn.

The rest of the family doesn't like manga's so he watches them in his room.

My 4y old daughter loves to watch 24, but she is afraid of Barbie movies,
fairy tales,shrek,chicken little and lots of other cartoons.

So with that in mind how can you tell them what is ok for them to watch and
what not.



Laila

_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rn9302000
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 07:02
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: hypotheticals WAS: More questions on limi
ts......



I think I am not expressing myself properly ....I don't know,
The only reason I put the hypothetical out there in regards to violent
tv was from the other post, where it was stated that the poster should
trust her child to know whether he wants to watch violent tv.......I
was just putting it out there to ask if the same were to be true if it
was a young child.
Do the "no limits" on anything apply to kids of all ages? I don't put
limits for instance on food. We try to eat healthy and set a good
example, but if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and
nothing else if i let him.

--- In unschoolingbasics@ <mailto:unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rn930@...
>
> Ok, I should elaborate more, No I have never met a 7 yo who wants to
> watch graphic violence or sex.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=
>
> Because they don't.
>
> So why would they need to be kept from watching?
>
> -=-==-=-
>
> My hypothetical was only asking IF my 7 yo wanted to watch adult
> swim......
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> But she DOESN'T, so WHY would it be an issue to begin with?
>
> THAT's why hypotheticals don't work. Because you're making something up
> that hasn't/won't happen.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> big if, i would not allow this, i set limits on the type of
> television my 7 yo can watch,
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> WHY, if she wouldn't choose to watch these things in the first place?
>
> If you tell me you wouldn't choose to watch Kill Bill or SuperJail, WHY
> would your husband need to putt that limit on you? Why couldn't he just
> accept that it's not something you wouldn't watch. That would be that.
> No limits.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> so my question is, why is this considered
> not an unschooling frame of mind to set limits even if its for a 7 yo?
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Because it inhibits the trust and respect that you're trying to
> develop. It eats away at your relationship.
>
> Oh---and at what age would you consider removing all limits? Ten?
> Twelve? 18? 25? Hoe would you go about doing that?
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandL <http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org>
earnConference.org
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

On May 17, 2007, at 1:01 AM, rn9302000 wrote:

> I don't put
> limits for instance on food. We try to eat healthy and set a good
> example, but if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and
> nothing else if i let him.

Which implies that you don't let him. So there are restrictions.

Sandra Dodd has a page on what parents say their kids will do:

http://sandradodd.com/ifilet

What is limited and scarce becomes precious.

It used to be I wouldn't let myself have chocolate in the house
because I knew I'd eat the whole bag. At Halloween I had to buy candy
the day of or I'd eat them one after another. In fact one year I went
through 3 bags of candy the week before Halloween. I knew I couldn't
be trusted with candy. I'd proved it.

But what I actually knew was how I behaved under restrictions.
Someone somewhere talked about giving yourself permission to have
whatever you crave. Give yourself permission to go buy more when it's
running low. Don't create a scarcity. It made no sense! I *knew* I'd
just eat and eat and eat and grow to 300 lbs.

But I tried it. It took me 3 bags of almond M&Ms and several days of
feeling yucky but I did eventually get my fill. Now I can eat just a
few at a time. It used to be I'd eat an entire row of Oreos only
stopping because I felt yucky and then swore I'd never have another
Oreo -- which lasted until I stopped feeling yucky and would have
several more. But because I gave myself permission to have as much as
I wanted, we now have a never empty bowl of Dove milk chocolates
(which I think are heavenly). I have maybe 3 a week. I can keep a bag
of Oreos in the house *and they get stale.*

And funny thing is that my weight is still what it was when I was
restricting certain foods from my diet.

Deprivation makes for desperation.

In your child's case it could also be novelty. Anything new is bound
to be eaten in greater quantities.

It could also be convenience. One of the great attractions of so-
called junk foods is that they're easy to grab and eat. Lots of
people on the list have great ideas for easy, healthful snacks that
are just as easy to grab. It's helpful to keep the "junk"/convenience
food up above eye level so it's eaten when a child specifically wants
that rather than because it's easy to grab. It's helpful not to buy
convenience foods that aren't specifically requested.

It could be he's gearing up for a growth spurt and instinctively
knows he needs high calorie foods.

No one "just" does anything. There are reasons behind what kids do.
And we can help them get what they want. But just because they keep
reaching for the chips on the low shelf doesn't mean that's what they
want -- unless they're saying "Mom, put chips on the list!" They
might just be grabbing something that gets them back to playing as
soon as possible.

Unlike conventional parenting advice, mindful parenting advice always
begins with "It depends ..." ;-) because it depends on what the child
really wants and why.

There's a huge collection of answers to typical unschooling and
parenting questions at:

http://joyfullyrejoycing.com

Joyce





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Well I kind of do let him, i just make sure he eats an apple first or some other healthy thing, banana, bowl of oatmeal, then he can have at it with all the junk, i know it may be odd reasoning, but it makes me feel better that at least he gets one healthy item in him!! LOL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "RN930@..." <rn930@...>
wrote:
>> My hypothetical was only asking IF my 7 yo wanted to watch adult
> swim

I haven't read the other replies to this yet, but I can say that if
my 5.5yo wanted to stay up and watch Adult Swim with my 13yo, I
would start by asking why? I would also explain that those
were "grown up" shows that she might not like and might find scary
and offer to ask Ray to tape them for us to watch later.

We've had conversations like this before. She knows that I'm looking
out for her needs and interests, knows that *I* know what sorts of
things she finds frightening or just plain dull so she's happy to
let me run a little interference for her - interference that can
include me watching with her so she feels empowered to ff or turn it
off, or me previewing the tape so I can give her better information.

In any case, its not so much a matter of "setting limits" as of
giving my kid the best information I can so she can make an informed
decision *and* facilitating that decision in such a way that she
feels supported regardless of whether she wants to watch the whole
thing, or some or none of it.

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

Meredith

--- In [email protected], "Laila Maouli" <laila@...>
wrote:
>> My 4y old daughter loves to watch 24, but she is afraid of Barbie
movies,
> fairy tales,shrek,chicken little and lots of other cartoons.
>
> So with that in mind how can you tell them what is ok for them to
watch and
> what not.

This is a Great Point! Different people will find different things
disturbing. My 5.5yo doesn't like scenes with a lot of tension -
"what's around the corner" type scenarios. Sometimes she's okay
with really graphic violence, though, if the background music
isn't "spooky". She's very sensitive to the overall vibe of the
movie, in that way. I know other children who don't like to watch
people argue in a show or movie and become distressed.

This is why its so very important to connect with our kids about
what they are choosing to watch and why, and help them feel
empowered to choose to Not watch something.

---Meredith (Mo 5.5, Ray 13)

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: meredith@...

This is a Great Point! Different people will find different things
disturbing. My 5.5yo doesn't like scenes with a lot of tension -
"what's around the corner" type scenarios. Sometimes she's okay
with really graphic violence, though, if the background music
isn't "spooky". She's very sensitive to the overall vibe of the
movie, in that way. I know other children who don't like to watch
people argue in a show or movie and become distressed.

This is why its so very important to connect with our kids about
what they are choosing to watch and why, and help them feel
empowered to choose to Not watch something.


-=-=-=-

Yeah, I don't like suspense much either. Fatal Attraction---my heart's
just racing too fast.

But *oddly*, I love M Night Shamalan's movies---FULL of suspense, but
not really scary---I don't know the attraction. Clever? Twisty? I just
think he's brilliant. But I have to work myself up to watching his
stuff. <g> Afterwards, I'm glad I did, but *getting* there is hard.

Cameron was truly scared after the alien one (with Mel Gibson?)---with
the alien that appears in the TV's reflection. He was afraid of TVs
that were turned off, so for a while, the TVs had to be turned on or
covered. So we did. I had towels by each TV so that he wouldn't be
scared. He can have turned off TVs around now. No problem. <g>

I *could* have told him that he chose to watch the movie, so he should
just deal with the consequences. He may have still wanted to watch
scary movies, but not told me because he would know I wouldn't help. Or
sworn them off altogether. Or not known there were other options for
dealing with his fears. I'm always here to help! Towel in hand! <g>

When we work *with* our kids instead of fighting them, it's all good.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: rn930@...

Do the "no limits" on anything apply to kids of all ages?

-=-=-=-=-

Yep---no arbitrary limits for anyone---regardless of age.

-=-==-=-=-

I don't put limits for instance on food. We try to eat healthy and set
a good
example, but if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and
nothing else if i let him.

-=-=-=-=-

First of all, you "If I let" statement has been enshrined on Sandra's
"If I let" page ( www.sandradodd.com/unschooling/ifilet ). Go check out
some other wild statements that other parents wrote that their children
would do "if I let" them.

Next: If I put no limits on food, but ate healthily and set a good
example, how does that differ from TV-watching if my husband and I
watch only what we consider good on TV and set a good example?

Keeping the tv from a young child until mom feels it's "safe" to allow
the child access will backfire. Because whenever that time comes (six?
seven? ten? twelve? eighteen? when??), the child will probably be GLUED
to the tv for months. Mom will say: "See? I KNEW that would happen!
It's addictive!" and remove the TV again.

Instead, if from the time the child is an infant, if TV is just another
*thing* in the house, it becomes...well...just another
*thing*---nothing special. Just a box. Nothing almighty powerful.

Like Sleeping Beauty's spindle. Keeping her from it MADE her prick her
finger. Had she always been around spindles, her parents could have
said, "Don't pick up a spindle on your 16th birthday---you've been
cursed." Instead, they burned all the spindles and made it an
attractive novelty for the inevitable prick on her birthday.

Arbitrary limits will not accomplish what you think they will. Usually
*just* the opposite!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org



________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.

Julie Hampton

I am new to unschooling and struggle with the limits thing- BUT_ from this discussion it finally hit me that the issue is not limits or no limits but arbitrary limits. Having limits just because is not freedom. Having so called limits based on age, adult vs child is wrong but limits based on want/need/choice is what it is all about. I think all of us just want to be able to choose for ourselves. Thanks all



----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...<mailto:kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: hypotheticals WAS: More questions on limi ts......



-----Original Message-----
From: rn930@...<mailto:rn930@...>

Do the "no limits" on anything apply to kids of all ages?

-=-=-=-=-

Yep---no arbitrary limits for anyone---regardless of age.

-=-==-=-=-

I don't put limits for instance on food. We try to eat healthy and set
a good
example, but if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and
nothing else if i let him.

-=-=-=-=-

First of all, you "If I let" statement has been enshrined on Sandra's
"If I let" page ( www.sandradodd.com/unschooling/ifilet ). Go check out
some other wild statements that other parents wrote that their children
would do "if I let" them.

Next: If I put no limits on food, but ate healthily and set a good
example, how does that differ from TV-watching if my husband and I
watch only what we consider good on TV and set a good example?

Keeping the tv from a young child until mom feels it's "safe" to allow
the child access will backfire. Because whenever that time comes (six?
seven? ten? twelve? eighteen? when??), the child will probably be GLUED
to the tv for months. Mom will say: "See? I KNEW that would happen!
It's addictive!" and remove the TV again.

Instead, if from the time the child is an infant, if TV is just another
*thing* in the house, it becomes...well...just another
*thing*---nothing special. Just a box. Nothing almighty powerful.

Like Sleeping Beauty's spindle. Keeping her from it MADE her prick her
finger. Had she always been around spindles, her parents could have
said, "Don't pick up a spindle on your 16th birthday---you've been
cursed." Instead, they burned all the spindles and made it an
attractive novelty for the inevitable prick on her birthday.

Arbitrary limits will not accomplish what you think they will. Usually
*just* the opposite!

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org<http://www.liveandlearnconference.org/>

__________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]