literacy rates and compulsory schooling
Sylvia Toyama
Gary & I have been talking about giving some more explanation/info
about our 'homeschooling' (we've not yet said the 'U' word) for his
parents. His Mom is a retired kindergarten teacher, so many of the
sources I've offered to him would be received with total disbelief.
Even those from folks like John Holt, Gatto, Guterson -- and the
unschooling former teachers I know IRL -- would only be seen by her as
disgruntled failures, being that she's a true-believer in school
herself.
I mentioned to him yesterday the tidbit about literacy rates since
falling since compulsory schooling started in MA. I think it was
attributed to Ted Kennedy when I first saw it, but now I can't find
anything online to clarify that. Anyway, so now I'm curious -- does
anyone know where I can find more on literacy rates and compulsory
school?
Sylvia
about our 'homeschooling' (we've not yet said the 'U' word) for his
parents. His Mom is a retired kindergarten teacher, so many of the
sources I've offered to him would be received with total disbelief.
Even those from folks like John Holt, Gatto, Guterson -- and the
unschooling former teachers I know IRL -- would only be seen by her as
disgruntled failures, being that she's a true-believer in school
herself.
I mentioned to him yesterday the tidbit about literacy rates since
falling since compulsory schooling started in MA. I think it was
attributed to Ted Kennedy when I first saw it, but now I can't find
anything online to clarify that. Anyway, so now I'm curious -- does
anyone know where I can find more on literacy rates and compulsory
school?
Sylvia
Schuyler
I can't find the paper put out by Ted Kennedy's office, there are references
to it all over the place, but I found this:
http://www.audiblox2000.com/learning_disabilities/illiteracy.htm
And I found this statement on literacy:
The Literacy Record
The pre-1870 record of educational outputs such as literacy was even more
impressive than the numbers of children in school, and this presents an even
more serious problem to typical authors of social histories. Professor Mark
Blaug has observed that "Conventional histories of education neatly dispose
of the problem by simply ignoring the literacy evidence."5
R. K. Webb, a specialist historian of literacy, offers the following
conclusions about conditions in Britain in the late 1830s:
In so far as one dare generalize about a national average in an
extraordinarily varied situation, the figure would seem to run between
two-thirds and three-quarters of the working classes as literate, a group
which included most of the respectable poor who were the great political
potential in English life.6
There was, moreover, an appreciable rate of growth in literacy. This is
reflected in the fact thatyoung persons were more and more accomplished than
their elders. Thus an examination of educational attainments of males in the
Navy and Marines in 1865 showed that 99 percent of the boys could read
compared with their seniors: seamen (89 percent), marines (80 percent), and
petty officers (94 percent).7
It is not surprising that with such evidence of literacy growth of young
people, the levels had become even more substantial by 1870. On my
calculations for 1880, when national compulsion was enacted, over 95 percent
of fifteen-year-olds were literate.8 This should be compared to the fact
that over a century later 40 percent of 21-year- olds in the United Kingdom
admit to difficulties with writing and spelling.9
which I got from here:
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=307
I don't know if something there helps, but maybe?
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
to it all over the place, but I found this:
http://www.audiblox2000.com/learning_disabilities/illiteracy.htm
And I found this statement on literacy:
The Literacy Record
The pre-1870 record of educational outputs such as literacy was even more
impressive than the numbers of children in school, and this presents an even
more serious problem to typical authors of social histories. Professor Mark
Blaug has observed that "Conventional histories of education neatly dispose
of the problem by simply ignoring the literacy evidence."5
R. K. Webb, a specialist historian of literacy, offers the following
conclusions about conditions in Britain in the late 1830s:
In so far as one dare generalize about a national average in an
extraordinarily varied situation, the figure would seem to run between
two-thirds and three-quarters of the working classes as literate, a group
which included most of the respectable poor who were the great political
potential in English life.6
There was, moreover, an appreciable rate of growth in literacy. This is
reflected in the fact thatyoung persons were more and more accomplished than
their elders. Thus an examination of educational attainments of males in the
Navy and Marines in 1865 showed that 99 percent of the boys could read
compared with their seniors: seamen (89 percent), marines (80 percent), and
petty officers (94 percent).7
It is not surprising that with such evidence of literacy growth of young
people, the levels had become even more substantial by 1870. On my
calculations for 1880, when national compulsion was enacted, over 95 percent
of fifteen-year-olds were literate.8 This should be compared to the fact
that over a century later 40 percent of 21-year- olds in the United Kingdom
admit to difficulties with writing and spelling.9
which I got from here:
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=307
I don't know if something there helps, but maybe?
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvia Toyama" <sylgt04@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] literacy rates and compulsory schooling
> Gary & I have been talking about giving some more explanation/info
> about our 'homeschooling' (we've not yet said the 'U' word) for his
> parents. His Mom is a retired kindergarten teacher, so many of the
> sources I've offered to him would be received with total disbelief.
> Even those from folks like John Holt, Gatto, Guterson -- and the
> unschooling former teachers I know IRL -- would only be seen by her as
> disgruntled failures, being that she's a true-believer in school
> herself.
>
> I mentioned to him yesterday the tidbit about literacy rates since
> falling since compulsory schooling started in MA. I think it was
> attributed to Ted Kennedy when I first saw it, but now I can't find
> anything online to clarify that. Anyway, so now I'm curious -- does
> anyone know where I can find more on literacy rates and compulsory
> school?
>
> Sylvia
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Mara
Hi,
I think 'The Underground History of Compulsory
SChooling' or 'Dumbing us Down' from John Taylor Gatto
has that in it. Unfortunately I loaned one out and can
not find the other - but I am pretty sure.
Mara
--- Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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I think 'The Underground History of Compulsory
SChooling' or 'Dumbing us Down' from John Taylor Gatto
has that in it. Unfortunately I loaned one out and can
not find the other - but I am pretty sure.
Mara
--- Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
> Gary & I have been talking about giving some more__________________________________________________
> explanation/info
> about our 'homeschooling' (we've not yet said the
> 'U' word) for his
> parents. His Mom is a retired kindergarten teacher,
> so many of the
> sources I've offered to him would be received with
> total disbelief.
> Even those from folks like John Holt, Gatto,
> Guterson -- and the
> unschooling former teachers I know IRL -- would only
> be seen by her as
> disgruntled failures, being that she's a
> true-believer in school
> herself.
>
> I mentioned to him yesterday the tidbit about
> literacy rates since
> falling since compulsory schooling started in MA. I
> think it was
> attributed to Ted Kennedy when I first saw it, but
> now I can't find
> anything online to clarify that. Anyway, so now I'm
> curious -- does
> anyone know where I can find more on literacy rates
> and compulsory
> school?
>
> Sylvia
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Heather
Well, here is "The Underground..." online.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm
heather
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm
heather
On 4/21/07, Mara <mamadeluz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I think 'The Underground History of Compulsory
> SChooling' or 'Dumbing us Down' from John Taylor Gatto
> has that in it. Unfortunately I loaned one out and can
> not find the other - but I am pretty sure.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
I think 'The Underground History of Compulsory Schooling' or 'Dumbing us Down' from John Taylor Gatto has that in it. Unfortunately I loaned one out and can not find the other - but I am pretty sure.
Mara
****
Yeah, I thought of Gatto early on, but in researching some of his more recent writings, I found he's now advocating the complete abolition of compulsory/public schooling in America. I don't necessarily disagree with him in principle, but in practice, many kids in the US are way better off in school than if they had no place but home with their parents -- or a nanny -- to spend their days. That, and his position would completely turn off my inlaws, stripping him of all credibility, should they do any independent research on him.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mara
****
Yeah, I thought of Gatto early on, but in researching some of his more recent writings, I found he's now advocating the complete abolition of compulsory/public schooling in America. I don't necessarily disagree with him in principle, but in practice, many kids in the US are way better off in school than if they had no place but home with their parents -- or a nanny -- to spend their days. That, and his position would completely turn off my inlaws, stripping him of all credibility, should they do any independent research on him.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]