Do you understand????
Rebecca De Hate
Hey folks I joined this group months ago and have gleaned lots of
helpful information from all of you. I don't write much because I
am just a newbee to this whole realm. I am writing because I just
need to vent/talk to those who may understand my frustration.
Here's my thoughts.....
First, I work at a daycare as a pre-school teacher and luckily I get
to take my two children with me (4 and 1>) However, it is so
difficult to strive to live one way (unschooling, consensual, etc)
with my children but have to work where I have to follow "schooling"
ideas and such... So what I need help with is advice on how to turn
my thoughts into a more positive aspect and possibly throw a little
unschooling in my pre-school.
Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the typical pre-
school routine where we cover the days of week, letter, and numbers
etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash cards ---
yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more than that ---
boring... I like to get the letters in my using them, plain all
coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail letters and
numbers etc.
Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. She made a comment today that basically said that
they were great kids the two days I was off -- but seemed antsy,
louder, etc when I've been there (let's not take into consideration
that today we had a easter party??!!). Now I agree that sometimes I
can be on edge and snappier with the kids by I am constantly
striving to make there environment fun and safe. I always try not
to yell however sometimes when the whole group is crazed and just
don't hear me when I've talked at a lower tone or normal voice I
will raise mine so they can hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to
yell -- and neither do I but I'm not sure what to do to get their
attention -- ideas??) Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids
calmed down and listen without yelling, having to sit them down
physcially, or give any type of time outs???>???
Now at home I try to let my child live more freely, make choices,
but living between these two worlds I have to often refer back to
some of your ideas her at unschooling basics... I am a quick one to
yell but am constantly unlearning this learned behavior but...??..
Anyway, I started having so many thoughts at once I don't know where
to turn this e-mail yet so I'll leave here and wait for some advice
and thoughts ...
I hope someone out there can understand where I'm trying to go here
or what I'm trying to explain .... Help!!!!
I'm kind of sensitive so please, please understand I am still un-
learning -- unschooling myself and haven't even completely made our
own home an unschooled home --- yet I want to put a little
unschoolilng in my pre-school
helpful information from all of you. I don't write much because I
am just a newbee to this whole realm. I am writing because I just
need to vent/talk to those who may understand my frustration.
Here's my thoughts.....
First, I work at a daycare as a pre-school teacher and luckily I get
to take my two children with me (4 and 1>) However, it is so
difficult to strive to live one way (unschooling, consensual, etc)
with my children but have to work where I have to follow "schooling"
ideas and such... So what I need help with is advice on how to turn
my thoughts into a more positive aspect and possibly throw a little
unschooling in my pre-school.
Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the typical pre-
school routine where we cover the days of week, letter, and numbers
etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash cards ---
yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more than that ---
boring... I like to get the letters in my using them, plain all
coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail letters and
numbers etc.
Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. She made a comment today that basically said that
they were great kids the two days I was off -- but seemed antsy,
louder, etc when I've been there (let's not take into consideration
that today we had a easter party??!!). Now I agree that sometimes I
can be on edge and snappier with the kids by I am constantly
striving to make there environment fun and safe. I always try not
to yell however sometimes when the whole group is crazed and just
don't hear me when I've talked at a lower tone or normal voice I
will raise mine so they can hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to
yell -- and neither do I but I'm not sure what to do to get their
attention -- ideas??) Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids
calmed down and listen without yelling, having to sit them down
physcially, or give any type of time outs???>???
Now at home I try to let my child live more freely, make choices,
but living between these two worlds I have to often refer back to
some of your ideas her at unschooling basics... I am a quick one to
yell but am constantly unlearning this learned behavior but...??..
Anyway, I started having so many thoughts at once I don't know where
to turn this e-mail yet so I'll leave here and wait for some advice
and thoughts ...
I hope someone out there can understand where I'm trying to go here
or what I'm trying to explain .... Help!!!!
I'm kind of sensitive so please, please understand I am still un-
learning -- unschooling myself and haven't even completely made our
own home an unschooled home --- yet I want to put a little
unschoolilng in my pre-school
Cameron Parham
I am new, too, so I am not sure I have any advice. I have problems interfacing the conventional world with unschooling at times, too. But what shines through your post is your earnest honesty, your self-examination, your consciousness of the challenges. It seems to me that should help a lot! Cameron
----- Original Message ----
From: Rebecca De Hate <rebeccadehate@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2007 3:16:42 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Do you understand????
Hey folks I joined this group months ago and have gleaned lots of
helpful information from all of you. I don't write much because I
am just a newbee to this whole realm. I am writing because I just
need to vent/talk to those who may understand my frustration.
Here's my thoughts.... .
First, I work at a daycare as a pre-school teacher and luckily I get
to take my two children with me (4 and 1>) However, it is so
difficult to strive to live one way (unschooling, consensual, etc)
with my children but have to work where I have to follow "schooling"
ideas and such... So what I need help with is advice on how to turn
my thoughts into a more positive aspect and possibly throw a little
unschooling in my pre-school.
Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the typical pre-
school routine where we cover the days of week, letter, and numbers
etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash cards ---
yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more than that ---
boring... I like to get the letters in my using them, plain all
coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail letters and
numbers etc.
Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. She made a comment today that basically said that
they were great kids the two days I was off -- but seemed antsy,
louder, etc when I've been there (let's not take into consideration
that today we had a easter party??!!). Now I agree that sometimes I
can be on edge and snappier with the kids by I am constantly
striving to make there environment fun and safe. I always try not
to yell however sometimes when the whole group is crazed and just
don't hear me when I've talked at a lower tone or normal voice I
will raise mine so they can hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to
yell -- and neither do I but I'm not sure what to do to get their
attention -- ideas??) Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids
calmed down and listen without yelling, having to sit them down
physcially, or give any type of time outs???>???
Now at home I try to let my child live more freely, make choices,
but living between these two worlds I have to often refer back to
some of your ideas her at unschooling basics... I am a quick one to
yell but am constantly unlearning this learned behavior but...??..
Anyway, I started having so many thoughts at once I don't know where
to turn this e-mail yet so I'll leave here and wait for some advice
and thoughts ...
I hope someone out there can understand where I'm trying to go here
or what I'm trying to explain .... Help!!!!
I'm kind of sensitive so please, please understand I am still un-
learning -- unschooling myself and haven't even completely made our
own home an unschooled home --- yet I want to put a little
unschoolilng in my pre-school
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Rebecca De Hate <rebeccadehate@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2007 3:16:42 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Do you understand????
Hey folks I joined this group months ago and have gleaned lots of
helpful information from all of you. I don't write much because I
am just a newbee to this whole realm. I am writing because I just
need to vent/talk to those who may understand my frustration.
Here's my thoughts.... .
First, I work at a daycare as a pre-school teacher and luckily I get
to take my two children with me (4 and 1>) However, it is so
difficult to strive to live one way (unschooling, consensual, etc)
with my children but have to work where I have to follow "schooling"
ideas and such... So what I need help with is advice on how to turn
my thoughts into a more positive aspect and possibly throw a little
unschooling in my pre-school.
Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the typical pre-
school routine where we cover the days of week, letter, and numbers
etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash cards ---
yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more than that ---
boring... I like to get the letters in my using them, plain all
coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail letters and
numbers etc.
Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. She made a comment today that basically said that
they were great kids the two days I was off -- but seemed antsy,
louder, etc when I've been there (let's not take into consideration
that today we had a easter party??!!). Now I agree that sometimes I
can be on edge and snappier with the kids by I am constantly
striving to make there environment fun and safe. I always try not
to yell however sometimes when the whole group is crazed and just
don't hear me when I've talked at a lower tone or normal voice I
will raise mine so they can hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to
yell -- and neither do I but I'm not sure what to do to get their
attention -- ideas??) Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids
calmed down and listen without yelling, having to sit them down
physcially, or give any type of time outs???>???
Now at home I try to let my child live more freely, make choices,
but living between these two worlds I have to often refer back to
some of your ideas her at unschooling basics... I am a quick one to
yell but am constantly unlearning this learned behavior but...??..
Anyway, I started having so many thoughts at once I don't know where
to turn this e-mail yet so I'll leave here and wait for some advice
and thoughts ...
I hope someone out there can understand where I'm trying to go here
or what I'm trying to explain .... Help!!!!
I'm kind of sensitive so please, please understand I am still un-
learning -- unschooling myself and haven't even completely made our
own home an unschooled home --- yet I want to put a little
unschoolilng in my pre-school
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 5, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Rebecca De Hate wrote:
They have great ideas on how to share cool stuff with the kids but
the administration wants accountability and ties their hands. It's
why so many teachers burn out.
She has a right to run her preschool how ever she wants. If you
aren't teaching in the way she wants for her school, it's her right
to let you go.
Can you find another school that's more play centered and less school
prep centered? They do exist.
is to be proactive *before* the hitting starts. Be aware of what
dynamic leads to hitting and change it and defuse it.
If they're getting loud then you need to change the dynamic before
they get to the point where you need to raise your voice. It's a
special skill that I know I don't have ;-) but I know some people are
able to sense what to do and which child to go to to change the dynamic.
You need to figure out how to calm the waters before they reach
tsunami proportions. That doesn't mean shushing them all the time. It
means redirecting energy that's building up. You could ask your
director or another teacher who seems to be able to exude calm into
the room.
But I don't think you can do unschooling in a room full of kids who
are used to being controlled. Even at home when someone's starting
out unschooling parenting, it's common for kids to go wild when
controls are removed until they figure out the new way things work.
(And it's why we suggest not removing all the controls at once and
just saying "yes" more.)
The kids you have are probably controlled at home. If they come to
school where it feels like control is a little iffy, they *will* go
wild and *will* test boundaries. It's what control does to kids. It's
like school kids on a field trip. A goodly proportion are loud and
they push boundaries when they're out of school. If you had full
freedom at the preschool to help them understand what freedom feels
like, and had a good sense of how to work the dynamic of a room, it
could work, but being wishy washy on control is a recipe for disaster
I think. And your director has different ideas anyway.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> So what I need help with is advice on how to turnI think you've found the trap that most teachers find themselves in.
> my thoughts into a more positive aspect and possibly throw a little
> unschooling in my pre-school.
They have great ideas on how to share cool stuff with the kids but
the administration wants accountability and ties their hands. It's
why so many teachers burn out.
She has a right to run her preschool how ever she wants. If you
aren't teaching in the way she wants for her school, it's her right
to let you go.
Can you find another school that's more play centered and less school
prep centered? They do exist.
> (again boss doesn't like me toIf a mom asks what she should do about a child who hits, the answer
> yell -- and neither do I but I'm not sure what to do to get their
> attention -- ideas??)
is to be proactive *before* the hitting starts. Be aware of what
dynamic leads to hitting and change it and defuse it.
If they're getting loud then you need to change the dynamic before
they get to the point where you need to raise your voice. It's a
special skill that I know I don't have ;-) but I know some people are
able to sense what to do and which child to go to to change the dynamic.
You need to figure out how to calm the waters before they reach
tsunami proportions. That doesn't mean shushing them all the time. It
means redirecting energy that's building up. You could ask your
director or another teacher who seems to be able to exude calm into
the room.
But I don't think you can do unschooling in a room full of kids who
are used to being controlled. Even at home when someone's starting
out unschooling parenting, it's common for kids to go wild when
controls are removed until they figure out the new way things work.
(And it's why we suggest not removing all the controls at once and
just saying "yes" more.)
The kids you have are probably controlled at home. If they come to
school where it feels like control is a little iffy, they *will* go
wild and *will* test boundaries. It's what control does to kids. It's
like school kids on a field trip. A goodly proportion are loud and
they push boundaries when they're out of school. If you had full
freedom at the preschool to help them understand what freedom feels
like, and had a good sense of how to work the dynamic of a room, it
could work, but being wishy washy on control is a recipe for disaster
I think. And your director has different ideas anyway.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Peters
I've got some suggestions for you...my DH and I used to
have "bus/cafeteria duty" for one of our church's kids ministries,
we are Cub Scout leaders, and have had kids in PS while trying to
unschool at home...needless to say, unschooling is just easier if
you are not exposing them to 2 different standards on a daily
basis. We eventually pulled both our kids out and even though some
schooly stuff still runs through our heads on occasion...we're much
more at peace now.
<///> Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the
typical pre-school routine where we cover the days of week, letter,
and numbers etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash
cards --- yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more
than that --- boring... I like to get the letters in my using them,
plain all coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail
letters and numbers etc.<///>
IMO, there is nothing "wrong" with using those things
as "tools"...as long as that's how you see them. Kind of
a, "which 'tool' are we going to use today?", mentality. My DD
loved flash cards when she was that age...something she ASKED to do
on a daily basis. So we did them, because she thought they were fun
not because I thought she needed them...I had to see them as a tool
or a game...then it really did get fun!
Maybe you could start giving your kids the 'choice' of what 'tool'
they want to use for learning their letters/numbers that day. You
would end up with a child-led variety and you might discover they
don't think flash cards are as boring as you think...and may have
other 'do-able' ideas you hadn't thought of (kids are really smart
and creative, you know?).
You could also make the flash cards into games like 'Memory': where
you turn them all face down and they turn one over then try to match
it with the next fliped up card...you'll need 2 decks but it's
a "quite game".
<///> Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. [...] I always try not to yell however sometimes
when the whole group is crazed and just don't hear me when I've
talked at a lower tone or normal voice I will raise mine so they can
hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to yell -- and neither do I
but I'm not sure what to do to get their attention -- ideas??)
Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids calmed down and listen
without yelling, having to sit them down physcially, or give any
type of time outs???>??? <///>
I understand the tendancies to want to yell...I think it's a hard
habit for anyone to break. However, I must say that I agree with
what Joyce said, try to stop [the noise] 'before' it gets out of
hand. But I also understand how hard that can be with a large group
of kids.
Something that the PS system here has adopted (I actually think it
was a positive tool/action and was impressed) is to "turn the lights
out". If the class/cafeteria is getting too noisey (which is any
noise at all...ugh! They're kids, they're supposed to be
noisey...and it's their 'free-time'!) the teacher/monitor turns off
the light switch without ever saying a word to the class. The kids
know when the lights go out that they need to get quiter for the
lights to come back on. Once the room is back to the desired noise
level the teacher flips the lights back on. (However, somedays when
I would visit my kids at PS/lunch, the lights stayed off all
day...UGH!)
You could play it as a "quiet game"...explain to the kids that the
lights have "volume sensitive 'ears'" and that when the noise hurts
the light's 'ears' they'll go out...but when the noise doesn't hurt
anymore they'll come back on. You could say that the noise gives a
headache to the lights and so they have to shut their 'eyes'...maybe
I'm getting too carried away. Anyway...I think you get the point.
Then 'practice' getting loud...lights going off, getting
quiet...lights coming on. You could even "time" how long it takes
for everyone to get quiet and try to "beat" records.
You might try playing the "opposite game". If you say, "get
loud"...it means get quiet, if you say, "run"...it means walk, if
you say "stand"...it means sit, etc.
I guess my point is make EVERYTHING a game! Do not see things as
rules or 'have-to's...see them a games and choices. Try to find
ways to make the boring interesting and the wild more organized by
using F.U.N. (freedom, unschooling, & nature/nurture).
HTH,
Julie Peters
have "bus/cafeteria duty" for one of our church's kids ministries,
we are Cub Scout leaders, and have had kids in PS while trying to
unschool at home...needless to say, unschooling is just easier if
you are not exposing them to 2 different standards on a daily
basis. We eventually pulled both our kids out and even though some
schooly stuff still runs through our heads on occasion...we're much
more at peace now.
<///> Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the
typical pre-school routine where we cover the days of week, letter,
and numbers etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash
cards --- yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more
than that --- boring... I like to get the letters in my using them,
plain all coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail
letters and numbers etc.<///>
IMO, there is nothing "wrong" with using those things
as "tools"...as long as that's how you see them. Kind of
a, "which 'tool' are we going to use today?", mentality. My DD
loved flash cards when she was that age...something she ASKED to do
on a daily basis. So we did them, because she thought they were fun
not because I thought she needed them...I had to see them as a tool
or a game...then it really did get fun!
Maybe you could start giving your kids the 'choice' of what 'tool'
they want to use for learning their letters/numbers that day. You
would end up with a child-led variety and you might discover they
don't think flash cards are as boring as you think...and may have
other 'do-able' ideas you hadn't thought of (kids are really smart
and creative, you know?).
You could also make the flash cards into games like 'Memory': where
you turn them all face down and they turn one over then try to match
it with the next fliped up card...you'll need 2 decks but it's
a "quite game".
<///> Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. [...] I always try not to yell however sometimes
when the whole group is crazed and just don't hear me when I've
talked at a lower tone or normal voice I will raise mine so they can
hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to yell -- and neither do I
but I'm not sure what to do to get their attention -- ideas??)
Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids calmed down and listen
without yelling, having to sit them down physcially, or give any
type of time outs???>??? <///>
I understand the tendancies to want to yell...I think it's a hard
habit for anyone to break. However, I must say that I agree with
what Joyce said, try to stop [the noise] 'before' it gets out of
hand. But I also understand how hard that can be with a large group
of kids.
Something that the PS system here has adopted (I actually think it
was a positive tool/action and was impressed) is to "turn the lights
out". If the class/cafeteria is getting too noisey (which is any
noise at all...ugh! They're kids, they're supposed to be
noisey...and it's their 'free-time'!) the teacher/monitor turns off
the light switch without ever saying a word to the class. The kids
know when the lights go out that they need to get quiter for the
lights to come back on. Once the room is back to the desired noise
level the teacher flips the lights back on. (However, somedays when
I would visit my kids at PS/lunch, the lights stayed off all
day...UGH!)
You could play it as a "quiet game"...explain to the kids that the
lights have "volume sensitive 'ears'" and that when the noise hurts
the light's 'ears' they'll go out...but when the noise doesn't hurt
anymore they'll come back on. You could say that the noise gives a
headache to the lights and so they have to shut their 'eyes'...maybe
I'm getting too carried away. Anyway...I think you get the point.
Then 'practice' getting loud...lights going off, getting
quiet...lights coming on. You could even "time" how long it takes
for everyone to get quiet and try to "beat" records.
You might try playing the "opposite game". If you say, "get
loud"...it means get quiet, if you say, "run"...it means walk, if
you say "stand"...it means sit, etc.
I guess my point is make EVERYTHING a game! Do not see things as
rules or 'have-to's...see them a games and choices. Try to find
ways to make the boring interesting and the wild more organized by
using F.U.N. (freedom, unschooling, & nature/nurture).
HTH,
Julie Peters
rebecca de
Dear Joyce,
I was so glad to get a couple responses on this issue!! Thank you for your thoughts. I will definitely look at how to find calm the waters before they escalate. Unfortanately, my director isn't very good at this either. However, I think I'm on the verge of figuring out a couple of things. Yesterday, our fellow co-worker let the pre-school and he was so laid back that I think the kids followed suit. And one thing he said is that he knows I worry about this and that and especially what my director/boss wants/says and he doesn't.... Sooo... maybe if I just learn to tune out any other thoughts except the fun we can have learning and what I have on the agenda...??? Anyway this is my very first year teaching beyond substitute teaching and student teaching. I guessing that I would have to go through some of this whether I had some unschooling thoughts or not.
I do understand it is my directors pre-school/daycare and she can run it any way she would like --- however she isn't very consistant --- oh well-- I'll just keep trucking along and keep finding a common ground with her -- and keep striving for a peaceful day.
You had mentioned to observe someone else that exudes calm == however, that isn't my boss either/// but when she had another day care she said her girl over there was great at keeping the kids calm. Hopefully I can pop over to that day care and watch her for a few hours///?? Again thanks for the input ... I feel calmer already
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was so glad to get a couple responses on this issue!! Thank you for your thoughts. I will definitely look at how to find calm the waters before they escalate. Unfortanately, my director isn't very good at this either. However, I think I'm on the verge of figuring out a couple of things. Yesterday, our fellow co-worker let the pre-school and he was so laid back that I think the kids followed suit. And one thing he said is that he knows I worry about this and that and especially what my director/boss wants/says and he doesn't.... Sooo... maybe if I just learn to tune out any other thoughts except the fun we can have learning and what I have on the agenda...??? Anyway this is my very first year teaching beyond substitute teaching and student teaching. I guessing that I would have to go through some of this whether I had some unschooling thoughts or not.
I do understand it is my directors pre-school/daycare and she can run it any way she would like --- however she isn't very consistant --- oh well-- I'll just keep trucking along and keep finding a common ground with her -- and keep striving for a peaceful day.
You had mentioned to observe someone else that exudes calm == however, that isn't my boss either/// but when she had another day care she said her girl over there was great at keeping the kids calm. Hopefully I can pop over to that day care and watch her for a few hours///?? Again thanks for the input ... I feel calmer already
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rebecca de
Julie,
between you and Joyce so far I'm starting to feel less frustrated!!! I don't know why diffusing the situations before their crazed didn't come to mind. I think I recognize the feeling of the frenzy started but I miss the cue that would keep it from a full scale tidal wave...
Some of our "problem" is that we have 2 1/2 year olds - 6 year olds in our pre-school. Unfortunately sometimes my 5 or 6 year olds can almost be more disruptive than a 2 1/2 year old. Or at least I expect more from my 5 year olds than my 3 year olds!! My director and I have talked about separating these children but it never happens. Anyway, I try apply the lessons and such to all of them (just like I would if I was in a class room full of 5 year olds that all have different learning abilities..)
That leads me to another thought. One of my other co-workers boys is usually there for our pre-school than has to go off to another.. Her childs teacher practically said that her child is acting like he does in her classroom because of our pre-school/daycare setting. This is my thoughts.. at the day care her child is learning to play with all ages and I don't put in constraints when it comes to 'testing'.... So to me if one 4 year old can recognize and say the alphabet great !! but if another one says the alphabet but doesn't recognize the letters well that great too...!!! (thanks to unschoolers helping me to recognize that all children will learn at their own pace) Sure at times I am surprised when a 4 year old can't use scissors but...... have to catch myself here and realize it is all good1!
Oh and on your thought on tools we do have quite a few games to use like shape, alphabet, number bingo and such. And when it comes to "math" I try to make it game like and copy lots of creative ideas from the internet and books out there for different play centers.
Heck the more I write you folks I realize that I can do this... I just need to keep using tools and finding ways to make it fun...I think I do what you said and actually ask the kids which things they like best.... I have found out already they really love music.
Julie Peters <julieannpeters@...> wrote:
I've got some suggestions for you...my DH and I used to
have "bus/cafeteria duty" for one of our church's kids ministries,
we are Cub Scout leaders, and have had kids in PS while trying to
unschool at home...needless to say, unschooling is just easier if
you are not exposing them to 2 different standards on a daily
basis. We eventually pulled both our kids out and even though some
schooly stuff still runs through our heads on occasion...we're much
more at peace now.
<///> Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the
typical pre-school routine where we cover the days of week, letter,
and numbers etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash
cards --- yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more
than that --- boring... I like to get the letters in my using them,
plain all coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail
letters and numbers etc.<///>
IMO, there is nothing "wrong" with using those things
as "tools"...as long as that's how you see them. Kind of
a, "which 'tool' are we going to use today?", mentality. My DD
loved flash cards when she was that age...something she ASKED to do
on a daily basis. So we did them, because she thought they were fun
not because I thought she needed them...I had to see them as a tool
or a game...then it really did get fun!
Maybe you could start giving your kids the 'choice' of what 'tool'
they want to use for learning their letters/numbers that day. You
would end up with a child-led variety and you might discover they
don't think flash cards are as boring as you think...and may have
other 'do-able' ideas you hadn't thought of (kids are really smart
and creative, you know?).
You could also make the flash cards into games like 'Memory': where
you turn them all face down and they turn one over then try to match
it with the next fliped up card...you'll need 2 decks but it's
a "quite game".
<///> Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. [...] I always try not to yell however sometimes
when the whole group is crazed and just don't hear me when I've
talked at a lower tone or normal voice I will raise mine so they can
hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to yell -- and neither do I
but I'm not sure what to do to get their attention -- ideas??)
Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids calmed down and listen
without yelling, having to sit them down physcially, or give any
type of time outs???>??? <///>
I understand the tendancies to want to yell...I think it's a hard
habit for anyone to break. However, I must say that I agree with
what Joyce said, try to stop [the noise] 'before' it gets out of
hand. But I also understand how hard that can be with a large group
of kids.
Something that the PS system here has adopted (I actually think it
was a positive tool/action and was impressed) is to "turn the lights
out". If the class/cafeteria is getting too noisey (which is any
noise at all...ugh! They're kids, they're supposed to be
noisey...and it's their 'free-time'!) the teacher/monitor turns off
the light switch without ever saying a word to the class. The kids
know when the lights go out that they need to get quiter for the
lights to come back on. Once the room is back to the desired noise
level the teacher flips the lights back on. (However, somedays when
I would visit my kids at PS/lunch, the lights stayed off all
day...UGH!)
You could play it as a "quiet game"...explain to the kids that the
lights have "volume sensitive 'ears'" and that when the noise hurts
the light's 'ears' they'll go out...but when the noise doesn't hurt
anymore they'll come back on. You could say that the noise gives a
headache to the lights and so they have to shut their 'eyes'...maybe
I'm getting too carried away. Anyway...I think you get the point.
Then 'practice' getting loud...lights going off, getting
quiet...lights coming on. You could even "time" how long it takes
for everyone to get quiet and try to "beat" records.
You might try playing the "opposite game". If you say, "get
loud"...it means get quiet, if you say, "run"...it means walk, if
you say "stand"...it means sit, etc.
I guess my point is make EVERYTHING a game! Do not see things as
rules or 'have-to's...see them a games and choices. Try to find
ways to make the boring interesting and the wild more organized by
using F.U.N. (freedom, unschooling, & nature/nurture).
HTH,
Julie Peters
---------------------------------
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with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
between you and Joyce so far I'm starting to feel less frustrated!!! I don't know why diffusing the situations before their crazed didn't come to mind. I think I recognize the feeling of the frenzy started but I miss the cue that would keep it from a full scale tidal wave...
Some of our "problem" is that we have 2 1/2 year olds - 6 year olds in our pre-school. Unfortunately sometimes my 5 or 6 year olds can almost be more disruptive than a 2 1/2 year old. Or at least I expect more from my 5 year olds than my 3 year olds!! My director and I have talked about separating these children but it never happens. Anyway, I try apply the lessons and such to all of them (just like I would if I was in a class room full of 5 year olds that all have different learning abilities..)
That leads me to another thought. One of my other co-workers boys is usually there for our pre-school than has to go off to another.. Her childs teacher practically said that her child is acting like he does in her classroom because of our pre-school/daycare setting. This is my thoughts.. at the day care her child is learning to play with all ages and I don't put in constraints when it comes to 'testing'.... So to me if one 4 year old can recognize and say the alphabet great !! but if another one says the alphabet but doesn't recognize the letters well that great too...!!! (thanks to unschoolers helping me to recognize that all children will learn at their own pace) Sure at times I am surprised when a 4 year old can't use scissors but...... have to catch myself here and realize it is all good1!
Oh and on your thought on tools we do have quite a few games to use like shape, alphabet, number bingo and such. And when it comes to "math" I try to make it game like and copy lots of creative ideas from the internet and books out there for different play centers.
Heck the more I write you folks I realize that I can do this... I just need to keep using tools and finding ways to make it fun...I think I do what you said and actually ask the kids which things they like best.... I have found out already they really love music.
Julie Peters <julieannpeters@...> wrote:
I've got some suggestions for you...my DH and I used to
have "bus/cafeteria duty" for one of our church's kids ministries,
we are Cub Scout leaders, and have had kids in PS while trying to
unschool at home...needless to say, unschooling is just easier if
you are not exposing them to 2 different standards on a daily
basis. We eventually pulled both our kids out and even though some
schooly stuff still runs through our heads on occasion...we're much
more at peace now.
<///> Here's one dilemma -- unfortunately I have to follow the
typical pre-school routine where we cover the days of week, letter,
and numbers etc and unfortunately my boss wants me to still do flash
cards --- yuck. I feel like we can use them once a week but more
than that --- boring... I like to get the letters in my using them,
plain all coping/tracing them, and making cool crafts that entail
letters and numbers etc.<///>
IMO, there is nothing "wrong" with using those things
as "tools"...as long as that's how you see them. Kind of
a, "which 'tool' are we going to use today?", mentality. My DD
loved flash cards when she was that age...something she ASKED to do
on a daily basis. So we did them, because she thought they were fun
not because I thought she needed them...I had to see them as a tool
or a game...then it really did get fun!
Maybe you could start giving your kids the 'choice' of what 'tool'
they want to use for learning their letters/numbers that day. You
would end up with a child-led variety and you might discover they
don't think flash cards are as boring as you think...and may have
other 'do-able' ideas you hadn't thought of (kids are really smart
and creative, you know?).
You could also make the flash cards into games like 'Memory': where
you turn them all face down and they turn one over then try to match
it with the next fliped up card...you'll need 2 decks but it's
a "quite game".
<///> Plus, she is pretty typical in 'discipline' -- she wants them
quieter than I would expect in turn that makes me always trying to
keep the quiet. [...] I always try not to yell however sometimes
when the whole group is crazed and just don't hear me when I've
talked at a lower tone or normal voice I will raise mine so they can
hear me. (again boss doesn't like me to yell -- and neither do I
but I'm not sure what to do to get their attention -- ideas??)
Basically -- dilemma is how to get the kids calmed down and listen
without yelling, having to sit them down physcially, or give any
type of time outs???>??? <///>
I understand the tendancies to want to yell...I think it's a hard
habit for anyone to break. However, I must say that I agree with
what Joyce said, try to stop [the noise] 'before' it gets out of
hand. But I also understand how hard that can be with a large group
of kids.
Something that the PS system here has adopted (I actually think it
was a positive tool/action and was impressed) is to "turn the lights
out". If the class/cafeteria is getting too noisey (which is any
noise at all...ugh! They're kids, they're supposed to be
noisey...and it's their 'free-time'!) the teacher/monitor turns off
the light switch without ever saying a word to the class. The kids
know when the lights go out that they need to get quiter for the
lights to come back on. Once the room is back to the desired noise
level the teacher flips the lights back on. (However, somedays when
I would visit my kids at PS/lunch, the lights stayed off all
day...UGH!)
You could play it as a "quiet game"...explain to the kids that the
lights have "volume sensitive 'ears'" and that when the noise hurts
the light's 'ears' they'll go out...but when the noise doesn't hurt
anymore they'll come back on. You could say that the noise gives a
headache to the lights and so they have to shut their 'eyes'...maybe
I'm getting too carried away. Anyway...I think you get the point.
Then 'practice' getting loud...lights going off, getting
quiet...lights coming on. You could even "time" how long it takes
for everyone to get quiet and try to "beat" records.
You might try playing the "opposite game". If you say, "get
loud"...it means get quiet, if you say, "run"...it means walk, if
you say "stand"...it means sit, etc.
I guess my point is make EVERYTHING a game! Do not see things as
rules or 'have-to's...see them a games and choices. Try to find
ways to make the boring interesting and the wild more organized by
using F.U.N. (freedom, unschooling, & nature/nurture).
HTH,
Julie Peters
---------------------------------
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]