[email protected]

"In other words, how do you generally go
about digging up possible resources that your kids might be interested in
for things they've expressed interest in, or thinking up ways they might
enjoy expanding those interests. And how much do you leave up to them? Is
this something that has varied over your years of unschooling with insight
you have gained in the process of unschooling?"

MAN, these are some advanced questions already!:) Good stuff to talk about.

I dig up possible resources when I see they are excited about a topic, just as you were talking about. Often, as Pam said, they want to "play" with an idea and not really delve into books or videos, but that doesn't mean you can't offer of course! When I find a book, video, game, project etc.. related to something I think they'd enjoy, I tell them about it. Sometimes, if it's something I would enjoy having anyway, I just buy it. It's pretty obvious when you offer a video on a topic (or any other resource) and they aren't excited about it. There are times I simply say "Oh, I picked up this __________ about the Civil War if you want to look at it" and put it on the table.
Sometimes I am interested in the topic and invite them to join me.
Sometimes, a child says "I'm bored", and I find an interesting book, video, tv show, game, project or other resource to help them break through the wall.

As you can see, there is no "right" answer for sharing information with our children. I think it's the underlying reasons that are important, the underlying philosophies of "why" that really matter.
If we're sharing it in a spirit of interest, of excitement about learning and because we think they'd enjoy it, then there won't be a problem. Pam's list of guidelines was really cool!
If we're getting them materials and resources because we think they "need" to learn something, then we'll probably muck it all up.

These things vary a LOT around here. My dd Sierra, loves all things academic and WANTS to have someone sit and show her letters, help her read, take specific time to show her things. She would probably enjoy certain aspects of school. She's already figured out that she'd lose too much freedom though, and she loves that as well.
My older boys on the other hand, hate anything that looks schoolish in the LEAST! They learn best from taking things apart, putting things together, playing video games etc...And apart from those similarities I just listed, they are both radically different in how I approach them with resources.
Trevor, at 14, mostly wants to do his own thing. I still offer stuff to him, because I really know if it's computer related he'll jump on it, but for the most part, he self-educates.
Jared is the epitome of a joyful learner. He wants to try ethnic foods, go new places, ask a million really amazing questions and try sciency sorts of experiments to learn new things (he comes up with his own experiments, the last one was about burning chili peppers to learn about the volatile oils).
To give you an example of my Sierra girl, she just came up to me while I'm typing here, and set a paper in front of me. She put glue in a coffee filter, between the two of us and pulled out a bag of fake flowers. She said "we're going to do a project now Mom. Take these flowers and use the glue and you can make a pretty picture with them. Isn't this a good idea Mom?"
Hey, at least I don't have to think up her "lessons" for her!! :) lol

So I need to glue some flowers with my girl for now. Two boys are playing starcraft and wee Jalen boy is watching Tom and Jerry, while chewing on his finger.

Yeah, this "strewing" thing is different for each of us. The thing that remains constant, is I'm sharing my life with whole people that I trust to make the best choices for their own lives. I live with them the way I live with dh....sharing interests, learning from each other and trusting in each others abilities and differences.

Ren, off to glue flowers


Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

Ren Allen

"Maybe with my outside perspective, since I have only girls, I can
help.
I have watched LOTS of little boys like this - and have over and over
again seen martial arts save the day. It gives them an outlet for
that
aggression that they naturally have - some more than others - and yet
teaches self-control at the same time."

I agree totally.
It's funny though, because my most gentle, easy-going kid is the one
that is in karate right now. He LOVES it.:)

Ren

jecaam28

Hi to all,
I have been lurking and don't believe I have posted an intro so I'll
do that first.

I am the mother of three ages 9,7, and 5 months. My husband and I
just started homeschooling this year. It was originally his idea and
then this past school year, after some minor problems, I took off
with it. So here we are in our first year of homeschooling. We have
very different philosophies. I lean more towards unschooling and he
prefers a school-at-home approach. We both work and have chosen to
be generally responsible for different subjects although it works out
that we both do all subjects just as the nature of the game. The kids
were all for it and seem to be enjoying it so far although I do think
they miss seeing their friends in school.

Now for the question:
It seems since everyone else went back to school the kids have been
complaining, bickering, picking on each other, uncooperative, and any
other adjective you can think of that is similar. This is definately
not typical for them. Usually, DH and I express how lucky we are and
count our blessings that they are so cooperative, appreciative,
respectful, mild mannered , etc. after we have some of their friends
over. I have attributed the change in their behavior to the change in
lifestyle (schooling). What I want to know is... has anyone else
experienced this and if so what did you do about it? Any advice would
be appreciated. We really need help in this matter.

Thanks,
Jennifer

Robyn Coburn

<<<<I am the mother of three ages 9,7, and 5 months. My husband and I
just started homeschooling this year. It was originally his idea and
then this past school year, after some minor problems, I took off
with it. So here we are in our first year of homeschooling. We have
very different philosophies. I lean more towards unschooling and he
prefers a school-at-home approach. We both work and have chosen to
be generally responsible for different subjects although it works out
that we both do all subjects just as the nature of the game. The kids
were all for it and seem to be enjoying it so far although I do think
they miss seeing their friends in school.>>>>

Obviously you are not yet Unschooling since you are still thinking in terms
of "doing subjects". I am guessing that you are requiring certain activities
and giving assignments? Unschooling parents are not taking responsibility
(or credit!) for the *learning* that their children are doing.

Even children moving from school to school-at-home need to deschool (also
called decompress). Having two largely opposing philosophies at work in
their parents may be confusing for them.

If you want to move to unschooling we can help you to do that. If you want
to keep on controlling your kids education and lives, you may find our
suggestions don't help you.

Nonetheless my first suggestion is to start reading all you can on
Unschooling.
www.SandraDodd.com/unschooling

John Holt books; "The Unschooling Handbook" (kind of a précis of the
information on the lists)

<<<<It seems since everyone else went back to school the kids have been
complaining, bickering, picking on each other, uncooperative, and any
other adjective you can think of that is similar. This is definately
not typical for them.>>>>

I feel like we don't have enough information. You say you and dh both work,
so who is caring for the kids during the day? Perhaps if you described a
typical day and what you are actually doing we could help more. Sometimes
when controls are lifted there is a period of wildness and settling.


<<<< Usually, DH and I express how lucky we are and
count our blessings that they are so cooperative, appreciative,
respectful, mild mannered , etc. after we have some of their friends
over.>>>>>

Have you stopped counting your blessings? Sometimes these and similar words
are used to describe children who are defeated by the school system, who
have had their individuality and liveliness slowly covered by a veneer of
school induced coping strategies. *If* that is what has happened to your
older two, the "wildness" may be a forerunner of them rediscovering their
authentic natures.

Robyn L. Coburn

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jecaam28

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> Obviously you are not yet Unschooling since you are still thinking
in terms
> of "doing subjects".

I never stated that we were. I stated that our *philosophies* were
different and mine leaned more toward unschooling while dh 's was
more toward school-at-home.

I am guessing that you are requiring certain activities
> and giving assignments?

Some, yes, but once again I never stated that we were truly
unschooling.

. Having two largely opposing philosophies at work in
> their parents may be confusing for them.

I have considered this. We are working on it.
>
> If you want to move to unschooling we can help you to do that. If
you want
> to keep on controlling your kids education and lives, you may find
our
> suggestions don't help you.

I joined this group because I was under the impression from the group
description this was a friendly place to learn about unschooling for
those of us exploring the idea.
>
> Nonetheless my first suggestion is to start reading all you can on
> Unschooling.

I have read and continue to do so.
>
>
> I feel like we don't have enough information. You say you and dh
both work,
> so who is caring for the kids during the day?

As I'm sure you are aware, there are many jobs with many different
schedules, not just 9-5 M-F. We both have positions that enable one
of us to be at home with the kids at all times.

Perhaps if you described a
> typical day and what you are actually doing we could help more.

It is different depending on who is home with them. With me, we get
up when we wake up and do what comes up. With dh, they do "school"
whenever it fits into the rest of the day. I guess there is no
typical day yet. We are still trying to find our niche.

Sometimes
> when controls are lifted there is a period of wildness and settling.

I considered this and that is why I asked the question. I wanted to
see if anyone who had taken their kids out of school had experienced
anything similar and what happened.
>
>
>
> Have you stopped counting your blessings?
Definately not, but recently often times I want to pull my hair out
and I do think I'm a bit grayer. LOL.

Sometimes these and similar words
> are used to describe children who are defeated by the school
system, who
> have had their individuality and liveliness slowly covered by a
veneer of
> school induced coping strategies. *If* that is what has happened to
your
> older two, the "wildness" may be a forerunner of them rediscovering
their
> authentic natures.

I could see this where DS is concerned. I think DD is just following
mirroring what she sees DS do. Perhaps this is it and it will all
work out.


Thank you for your response. I would still like to know if anyone has
had a similar personal experience and what happened.

Jennifer

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/3/2004 12:12:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jecaam28@... writes:

Thank you for your response. I would still like to know if anyone has
had a similar personal experience and what happened.<<<<

I took my son out after eight years in a private school. He was 12. He spent
18 months eating, sleeping, talking on the phone, and watching
tv----DEschooling. He never 'went wild'. He kind of withdrew into himself instead. He
spent that time healing. Since coming out of that much needed funk, he's been
very involved and engaged and happy. He's 16 now.

I guess your kids could adjust from one way of thinking to another (from you
to your husband), but I think they would be SOOO much better off if the two
of you could at least get in the same book, if not on the same page. It'll be
so hard to deschool if 'school' happens every other day.


>>>>I joined this group because I was under the impression from the group
description this was a friendly place to learn about unschooling for
those of us exploring the idea.<<<<

It IS, but what we'll recommend might not work under certain
conditions---like in the midst of 'school-at-home'. <g> Is your husband willing to examine
unschooling with you?

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<<I never stated that we were. I stated that our *philosophies* were
different and mine leaned more toward unschooling while dh 's was
more toward school-at-home......
...but once again I never stated that we were truly
unschooling.>>>>

Please ask all the questions you like, but be aware that this is an
Unschooling discussion list, and the answers are going to be skewed towards
suggestions for moving towards actually Unschooling.

It may be that coming here and repeating in response to the suggestions "I
don't want to actually unschool, but I want you all to give me your time and
energy anyway" could get a little old after a while.

I hope you and your dh can come to an agreement, and get increasingly
relaxed over time. I hope you end up unschooling and being able to help
others do so.

Robyn L. Coburn




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sandy lubert

Hi Jennifer-
Sorry you're going through a rough time with your kids adjusting. I
am new to unschooling, too, and I know it can be really scary.
Actually, since I attended the unschooling conference in Boston
(august), I've come a long way and I'm feeling a lot less terrified
these days. So take heart, it does get easier!
I think you are brave to be exploring unschooling as an option. I
can tell you that it is definitely worth it to "hang in there", ask
the questions, feel the discomfort, because unschooling is where
it's at!
You wrote:
<<I would still like to know if anyone has
had a similar personal experience and what happened.>>
I have just taken my kids out of school, too. My oldest was there
til the end of grade 4, middle finished grade 2. I can't say that we
have experienced any of the <<complaining, bickering, picking on
each other, uncooperative>> behaviour you referred to with your
kids. Actually, since we started unschooling, they have been
wonderfully relaxed and appear to be enjoying their newfound
freedom. It just feels so "right" to all of us!
I do know that I've heard others mention a similar situation to
yours (wrt your dh not quite being "sold" on unschooling yet) and I
can imagine it must be hard. I'm lucky in that dh is totally
supportive and we have both moved towards quite a radical shift in
our parenting in general. It's hard, but I do think it's crucial
that you both be on the same page.
Don't you think that your kids would "feel" (and respond to, with
their behaviour) ANY perceived disagreement between you and dh? And
especially one like this, which affects them so profoundly? Ours
would.
Take care and keep on truckin!
-Sandy

Cristina Pertierra

Hello to all,

When I first learned about unschooling, I was very drawn to it. I
didn't know it at the time, but it was the natural progression of what
we had already been doing. We're very much into the whole
attachment/mindful parenting philosophy. I understand that some
unschool only when it comes to education while others, the radical
unschoolers, have incorporated the philosophy as a lifestyle. I have to
admit, for us, the education aspect only made sense after "getting" the
entire philosophy. I learn more each day on how to improve our lives by
incorporating more and more the unschooling philosophy. This group is
instrumental in our ability to do that. Thank you all.

The other day I took my 5 year-old to a party where they had a pinata.
My daughter, like all the other girls, sat on the floor collecting
goodies by placing them well within her personal space to then transfer
the accumulated goodies in a goody-bag. Another little girl went into
my daughter's stash and took some of her stuff. My daughter was upset
and yelled at the little girl letting her know it wasn't ok for her to
take her stuff and asked for it back. The other little girl proceded to
take another goody from my daughter's stash. I told my daughter that I
agreed with her that it was not nice of the little girl to take that
from her, that I understood how upset she was at having been violated,
but she was still upset and crying. While I'm talking to her, the
little girl makes a third attempt, at which time, in a knee-jerk
response, I looked at the little girl as I shook my head and told her to
stop, that what she was doing was wrong. The little girl's mom was not
there and I didn't feel it was my place to even say what I had said. My
daughter complained to the birthday girl's mom who simply responded with
an "oh, well." I felt that my inability to help resolve the situation
may lead my daughter to believe that she should take matters into her
own hands and go get her stuff back which will only escalate matters.
We left shortly after that. On our way home I explained to her that
some people don't act nice sometimes because maybe they're having a bad
day maybe she was sad that her mommy wasn't there with her. In any
event, I explained that it doesn't make it ok, and that times like these
remind us to try and be nice to others even when we're not having a good
day. I also reminded her that all the other girls were nice and that
not all people take other people's stuff.

How do you all handle these types of situations where unfair stuff
happens to your kids? Is there something I could've said or done to
make it "OK" for my daughter?

Cristina


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Cristina Pertierra <cristina-pertierra@...>

I felt that my inability to help resolve the situation
may lead my daughter to believe that she should take matters into her
own hands and go get her stuff back which will only escalate matters.
We left shortly after that. On our way home I explained to her that
some people don't act nice sometimes because maybe they're having a bad
day maybe she was sad that her mommy wasn't there with her. In any
event, I explained that it doesn't make it ok, and that times like these
remind us to try and be nice to others even when we're not having a good
day. I also reminded her that all the other girls were nice and that
not all people take other people's stuff.

How do you all handle these types of situations where unfair stuff
happens to your kids? Is there something I could've said or done to
make it "OK" for my daughter?


-=-=-=-=-=

I think I would just stay closer to her for a while. BE there as she
gets her candy and have my lap be her "bag" as she scoops things up. I
doubt the other little girl would have grabbed from *you*.

Watching others be mean or rude is hard---no matter what. That other
child may be very needy---that may have been her only chance for candy
this month! Never know. But she may have *needed* that candy. No matter
how unfair it seems to *you*, it may have been pretty important to
*her*.

Even though that ruined the event for you daughter, it's important to
talk about her feelings, what each of you could do differently next
time, how the other child(ren) may feel, what kinds of
skills/abilities/needs others may have---stuff like that.

I would certainly empathize with my child about how *she* feels, but
I'd also try to help her understand why others may act the way they do.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


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