Patty Davis

Helloooo, I am a newbie to this group (lurked for awhile) and as I
wrote the title for my posting, I thought... hmmm... I think that is
an oxymoron. Are there really such a thing as catagories when it
comes to unschooling? That sounds like such a "schooly" thing!

Anyhow, a little about myself... as I mentioned, I am new on this
unschooling adventure (as of 03/12/07) after "schooling at home" for
almost two years with a public charter school. I just couldn't do
it anymore so I pulled my DD out before the next batch of state
testing. My daughter is 9 years old/4th grade (does that matter?)
although state testing will tell you that she has 6th grade reading
skills and 7th grade math skills. I say she had a good day guessing
answers on her multiple choice test... errrgh... lets not get
started on State Testing... a sensitive spot with me.

Last year, my elder daughter (now 12) was also being homeschooled.
She is back in public school now. I failed her miserably by trying
to "school" her at home. She was always the "teachers pet" and used
to being the "smart kid"; doesn't work so well when your teacher is
your mom and the class is only your little sister. She enjoys and
is motivated by the kudos and awards and opted to return to Jr High
this year. Its all a game, I explained to her. If she is willing
to play (meaning mindless HOMEWORK) then she has to give it her
all. And she knows she always has the option to come back home.
Meanwhile, she is again on top of her game with grades and awards.
Whatever...

At this point in time, dd9 and I are deschooling/detoxing. Which
means lots of reading (books, websites and yahoo-groups) for me and
TV, video games and online games for her. All as been pretty "non-
educational" at this point, but I have faith that she will want to
learn something at some point, right? Right now its "Tom & Jerry"
on tv for us and as I read (with envy) about those children that
watch non-stop Discovery, Science Channel and other "smart" shows; I
have to hope this happens for us at some point. But I'm not
interfering... not yet.

Here's my question for you: I have heard the terms "radical
unschooling" and "relaxed unschooling"... are there other
levels/catagories of unschooling? And what are the definitions? I
guess I'm hoping to hear from some of you who classify yourselves
as "this" or "that" and why you consider your methods part of that
type of unschooling.

I am in NO way questioning the validity of unschooling in any shape
or form... I am SOLD! I'm just trying to see what niche my daughter
and I might fit into as we move forward.

I understand that I have a great deal of un-schooling myself as I
find myself questioning my own motives. But we'll save those for
another post!

Thank you for reading and I appreciate any response to help me as I
unlearn everything I thought I knew about teaching my own child.

Hugs,

-Patty Davis
(Unschooling in Corona, CA)

wuweimama

--- In [email protected], "Patty Davis"
<homeschool4us@...> wrote:

> Here's my question for you: I have heard the terms "radical
> unschooling" and "relaxed unschooling"... are there other
> levels/catagories of unschooling? And what are the definitions? I
> guess I'm hoping to hear from some of you who classify yourselves
> as "this" or "that" and why you consider your methods part of that
> type of unschooling.


You might find the list UnschoolingUnschooling has an overlap of
"categories" of unschoolers.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingUnschooling/





Pat

Ren Allen

~~I am in NO way questioning the validity of unschooling in any shape
or form... I am SOLD! I'm just trying to see what niche my daughter
and I might fit into as we move forward.~~

Rather than trying to find a niche you're comfortable with, just live
each moment and do what works for right now. As you learn more and
gain more tools, you use them and you change.:) It's a journey.

We have all types of unschoolers here, though the advice given is
strongly towards the "radical" end of unschooling. That meaning to me
is about applying the unschooling philosophy to ALL of parenting, not
just education.

For me, saying that I trust my children will learn what they want,
when they want means that I trust ALL of their learning experiences.
From food to household tasks to interests and beyond....it's all
learning and I don't separate one kind of learning from another. It's
just all part of our life journey.

There are so many different families and so many ways to do things.
What we are usually advocating here is more freedom, more mindful
parenting and more respect. How that plays out in each home will look
different of course.

To separate a topic (ie: sleep, food, chores etc..) and say I don't
trust my children to learn in their own time and way on those things,
implies a lack of trust in their learning period. So I don't separate
any one topic or skill from another. That is usually referred to as
"radical unschooling" though I don't care if you call it "frog turds"
really.:) It's just how we live.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Ren Allen

~~You might find the list UnschoolingUnschooling has an overlap of
"categories" of unschoolers.~~

Though I notice there was only one post for the entire month of
February so it's not a very active list for those that want more
discussion.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Melissa

I wanted to say welcome, and while I'm not addressing your main
question about categories, I wanted to assure you to relax on the TV.
My kids watch your educational shows, but they spend most of their
time watching Nick, Disney teen, and cartoon network. You really
should sit down and open your mind, because you would not believe how
much kids learn from those shows. Sure, detractors will talk about
negative behaviors, etc, but my kids have learned so much more from
them about things that they want to do, or not do, or by watching Tom
and Jerry and relating to real life ("Mom, would a piano really fall
like that out of a plane?" "Well, lets drop some balls off of the roof
and see what happens!") There are soo many opportunities for
self-exploration rather than being told this or that is true.

Melissa
--- In [email protected], "Patty Davis"
<homeschool4us@...> wrote:
Right now its "Tom & Jerry"
> on tv for us and as I read (with envy) about those children that
> watch non-stop Discovery, Science Channel and other "smart" shows; I
> have to hope this happens for us at some point. But I'm not
> interfering... not yet.
>
>

Tracy J Wagner

<<<< My kids watch your educational shows, but they spend most of their
time watching Nick, Disney teen, and cartoon network. You really
should sit down and open your mind, because you would not believe how
much kids learn from those show >>>


This is so true, I still remember my 5 yr old running up to me and telling
me ants laid eggs to have babies after watching I think Fairly OddParents,
not quite positive though. She was so excited about learning something and
about the fact that ants lay eggs. There are lots of others I can't recall
right now, but after that I quit stressing about it.
Tracy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Patty Davis"
<homeschool4us@...> wrote:
>> Here's my question for you: I have heard the terms "radical
> unschooling" and "relaxed unschooling"... are there other
> levels/catagories of unschooling? And what are the definitions?

In general "unschooling" by itself just means not using a set
curriculum or plan, so there are folks who will say they unschool
certain subjects but not others... I don't know if there's a
category for that or not. I'm only interested in radical
unschooling, myself, which assumes that learning is a natural part
of living and everything can be unschooled - from math to food to
communication to technology and so on.

> I understand that I have a great deal of un-schooling myself as I
> find myself questioning my own motives. But we'll save those for
> another post!
>
> Thank you for reading and I appreciate any response to help me as
I
> unlearn everything I thought I knew about teaching my own child.

Sounds pretty radical to me, questioning your motives, challenging
your pre-existing ideas.... That process is a big part of radical
unschooling - ferreting out all those bits of school still stuck in
our own heads. Ready for a little of that now?

> At this point in time, dd9 and I are deschooling/detoxing. Which
> means lots of reading (books, websites and yahoo-groups) for me
and
> TV, video games and online games for her. All as been pretty "non-
> educational" at this point, but I have faith that she will want to
> learn something at some point, right?

Just bc it doesn't look "educational" doesn't mean there's no
learning going on. My stepson spends hours every day (okay, mostly
night) playing Runescape, and has learned amazing things about
religion, history, economics, and sociology. I know that from
chatting with him about the game, congratulating him on completed
quests and admiring his character's latest outfit - he doesn't think
of what he's doing as "learning", he thinks of it as play.

> Right now its "Tom & Jerry"
> on tv for us and as I read (with envy) about those children that
> watch non-stop Discovery, Science Channel and other "smart" shows;

Tom and Jerry has fabulous physical comedy and sight gags. The older
shows have great music, too. Farce has a long standing tradition as
an artform....Yeah, I know, you're probably rolling your eyes. Its
Okay to watch something or do something just because its Fun! And
once you start being okay with that you'll have an easier time
seeing the learning that happens naturally when people are having a
good time.

My stepson has a new interest. He went to a party on friday where
some folks were twirling batons with fire at the ends. Now he's all
excited to do it. He's spent much of the day making a baton of his
own and practicing with it - unlit, for now. He's planning on
consulting with our neigbor who has some other fire toys to find out
about wicks and fuel and how to not catch himself on fire. Once I'm
out of the way, he'll be doing some research on the computer. I
mentioned the talent show at L&L and he was bubbling with hopeful
anticipation.

This is big exciting stuff for him. He's getting to play with Fire!
In the process, he'll learn all sorts of things about chemistry and
physics and showmanship and kinesthesiology and and and and and....
But more importantly, he's having a blast. He's inspired and happy
and enthusiastic. If his interest peters out tomorrow, he had a
great few days playing with the idea - and learned a few things
along the way.

So don't worry about Tom & Jerry. It doesn't matter if your dd never
gravitates to the "smart" shows - she will learn things in her own
way, by living her life and persuing her joys and passions.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: plaidpanties666@...

My stepson has a new interest. He went to a party on friday where
some folks were twirling batons with fire at the ends. Now he's all
excited to do it. He's spent much of the day making a baton of his
own and practicing with it - unlit, for now. He's planning on
consulting with our neigbor who has some other fire toys to find out
about wicks and fuel and how to not catch himself on fire. Once I'm
out of the way, he'll be doing some research on the computer. I
mentioned the talent show at L&L and he was bubbling with hopeful
anticipation.

-=-=-=-=-

It's cool that he's into pyro-technics. Cameron did a bunch of it when
he was into magic. I LOVE flash paper!

BUT as the conference coordinator, I don't want him to get all "fired
up" excited about a "hot act" at the conference talent show. The camp
won't allow fire on stage (or confetti! <g>), and I'll admit I'd have
to shy away from it too! We may only have fire at the bonfire, which
*they* start for us. Oh----and in the fireplaces at the lodges and
cabins.

Just so he knows!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
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from AOL at AOL.com.

John Olsen

My name is Ruby Olsen. I am new here. I have 2 sons. Patrick
(Mister P) is 7 and a half years. He is my homeschooler. Then there is
Ian he is my 5 month old baby.
We consider ourselves to be "eclectic" unschoolers. Mostly my son
does reading, videos (DVD's), audio science programs and computer to
do his school work. He is also Dual enrolled with his home public
school. for us this works great. He takes Music (vocal) and art in
the general ed class setting and works with his SP ED teacher once a
week on his social skills. My son has Asperger's Syndrome. He is
cognitively 10- 12 yrs old, 6-7 yr old for Fine motor skills and
socially/emotionally he is about a 4-5 yr old.
I never thought that I would homeschool because of my son's
disability (he was diagnosed at 30 months with Pervasive Developmental
Disoder). But by the time he was in Kindergarten we knew that we would
have to do something before we "lost" him again. He was frustrated by
his ability to understand more than his peers. When I was pregnant last
year (it was a hard pregnancy), Mister P was not only reading the
children's books about babies he took my Pregnancy after 35 book and
read it and was asking me intelligent (way beyond normal 6-7 yrs olds!!)
questions from it.

John Olsen

My name is Ruby Olsen. I am new here. I have 2 sons. Patrick
(Mister P) is 7 and a half years. He is my homeschooler. Then there is
Ian he is my 5 month old baby.
We consider ourselves to be "eclectic" unschoolers. Mostly my son
does reading, videos (DVD's), audio science programs and computer to
do his school work. He is also Dual enrolled with his home public
school. for us this works great. He takes Music (vocal) and art in
the general ed class setting and works with his SP ED teacher once a
week on his social skills. My son has Asperger's Syndrome. He is
cognitively 10- 12 yrs old, 6-7 yr old for Fine motor skills and
socially/emotionally he is about a 4-5 yr old.
I never thought that I would homeschool because of my son's
disability (he was diagnosed at 30 months with Pervasive Developmental
Disoder). But by the time he was in Kindergarten we knew that we would
have to do something before we "lost" him again. He was frustrated by
his ability to understand more than his peers. When I was pregnant last
year (it was a hard pregnancy), Mister P was not only reading the
children's books about babies he took my Pregnancy after 35 book and
read it and was asking me intelligent (way beyond normal 6-7 yrs olds!!)
questions from it.

John Olsen

My name is Ruby Olsen. I am new here. I have 2 sons. Patrick
(Mister P) is 7 and a half years. He is my homeschooler. Then there is
Ian he is my 5 month old baby.
We consider ourselves to be "eclectic" unschoolers. Mostly my son
does reading, videos (DVD's), audio science programs and computer to
do his school work. He is also Dual enrolled with his home public
school. for us this works great. He takes Music (vocal) and art in
the general ed class setting and works with his SP ED teacher once a
week on his social skills. My son has Asperger's Syndrome. He is
cognitively 10- 12 yrs old, 6-7 yr old for Fine motor skills and
socially/emotionally he is about a 4-5 yr old.
I never thought that I would homeschool because of my son's
disability (he was diagnosed at 30 months with Pervasive Developmental
Disoder). But by the time he was in Kindergarten we knew that we would
have to do something before we "lost" him again. He was frustrated by
his ability to understand more than his peers. When I was pregnant last
year (it was a hard pregnancy), Mister P was not only reading the
children's books about babies he took my Pregnancy after 35 book and
read it and was asking me intelligent (way beyond normal 6-7 yrs olds!!)
questions from it.

jane doe

> -----Original Message-----
> From: plaidpanties666@...

> excited to do it. He's spent much of the day making
> a baton of his
> own and practicing with it - unlit, for now.

Fire... what fun--really! My husband is a juggler, I
was very nervous about fire. That was many, many years
ago. Now we have balls, clubs, and devil sticks. In
truth, the fire is nothing, it is really just show,
like fire eating. We've never had any burns, even
after having accidents like tipping the can over. Make
sure he is using all the right stuff and set him
outside. And after he has mastered fire and starts
asking for knives, well, good luck!!!
ELISA- who still won't let her hubby have knives after
30 years of juggling



We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone

We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa



____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

jane doe

> -----Original Message-----
> From: plaidpanties666@...

> excited to do it. He's spent much of the day making
> a baton of his
> own and practicing with it - unlit, for now.

Fire... what fun--really! My husband is a juggler, I
was very nervous about fire. That was many, many years
ago. Now we have balls, clubs, and devil sticks. In
truth, the fire is nothing, it is really just show,
like fire eating. We've never had any burns, even
after having accidents like tipping the can over. Make
sure he is using all the right stuff and set him
outside. And after he has mastered fire and starts
asking for knives, well, good luck!!!
ELISA- who still won't let her hubby have knives after
30 years of juggling



We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone

We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa



____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

jane doe

> -----Original Message-----
> From: plaidpanties666@...

> excited to do it. He's spent much of the day making
> a baton of his
> own and practicing with it - unlit, for now.

Fire... what fun--really! My husband is a juggler, I
was very nervous about fire. That was many, many years
ago. Now we have balls, clubs, and devil sticks. In
truth, the fire is nothing, it is really just show,
like fire eating. We've never had any burns, even
after having accidents like tipping the can over. Make
sure he is using all the right stuff and set him
outside. And after he has mastered fire and starts
asking for knives, well, good luck!!!
ELISA- who still won't let her hubby have knives after
30 years of juggling



We have a collective responsibility to the least of us-Phil Ramone

We can do no great things; only small things with great love- Mother Teresa



____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

Kelly Weyd

Hi Ruby. My daughter is 7 and not an Aspie, but we thought she was. Her final diagnoses was ADHD, Non Verbal Learning Disorder, Tourette's Syndrome, and Sensory Processing Disorder. My daughter sounds a lot like your son. My daughter socially/emotionally is that of about a 3 year old. But she started reading at 4, so when she was in school she was bored to tears because she was reading chapter books in kindy when the rest of them were learning to spell C-A-T. At home I don't have to hold her back in any way.......she goes at her pace.
Kelly

John Olsen <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
My name is Ruby Olsen. I am new here. I have 2 sons. Patrick
(Mister P) is 7 and a half years. He is my homeschooler. Then there is
Ian he is my 5 month old baby.
We consider ourselves to be "eclectic" unschoolers. Mostly my son
does reading, videos (DVD's), audio science programs and computer to
do his school work. He is also Dual enrolled with his home public
school. for us this works great. He takes Music (vocal) and art in
the general ed class setting and works with his SP ED teacher once a
week on his social skills. My son has Asperger's Syndrome. He is
cognitively 10- 12 yrs old, 6-7 yr old for Fine motor skills and
socially/emotionally he is about a 4-5 yr old.
I never thought that I would homeschool because of my son's
disability (he was diagnosed at 30 months with Pervasive Developmental
Disoder). But by the time he was in Kindergarten we knew that we would
have to do something before we "lost" him again. He was frustrated by
his ability to understand more than his peers. When I was pregnant last
year (it was a hard pregnancy), Mister P was not only reading the
children's books about babies he took my Pregnancy after 35 book and
read it and was asking me intelligent (way beyond normal 6-7 yrs olds!!)
questions from it.






---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Mar 27, 2007, at 8:07 PM, Patty Davis wrote:

> If she is willing
> to play (meaning mindless HOMEWORK) then she has to give it her
> all.

Why? That's a serious question.

If someone wants to try something, *is* it important to give it your
all? Or is it okay to take what you want from it, even if it's not
what *others* think you should be taking from it? Why should there be
only one way of experiencing a thing? (As long as your way isn't
spoiling the experience for others, of course.)

Sandra Dodd wrote a good essay on a different approach to school:

http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

There's also Guerilla Learning by Grace Llewellyn about unschooling
in spite of school and how to use school for your own purposes.

> All as been pretty "non-
> educational" at this point,

In a way, yes. In a way, no.

She's filling up on what was a limited quantity before. Part of it is
a need to catch up on what she never felt she was getting enough of.
Part of it is feeling a need to hoard something that was previously
limited: to cram in as much as possible before the limits return.

She's also trying to avoid anything that resembles school. So it
*looks* like she's avoiding learning. She's not. She's learning loads
but it just doesn't look like anything she would learn in school. But
isn't absorbing story structure and telling, relationships, humor,
different points of view, also learning? In fact more profound
learning than what the capital of Idaho is?

She is, though, probably avoiding programs and books and experiences
that feel like they're trying to teach her something that she "needs
to learn". That *will* fade but it does take time. She needs to feel
confident that she can dip into those and walk away if she isn't
interested in them. She didn't have that freedom before and she needs
to regain her confidence that learning is truly free now.

> as I read (with envy) about those children that
> watch non-stop Discovery, Science Channel and other "smart" shows

Mostly it's newer homeschoolers who exclaim about their kids watching
educational TV ;-) Veterans know it's all learning whether it's
Spongebob or Shakespeare.

Though my daughter has always been unschooled (except for preschool
and 2 months of 2nd grade to try it), when she hit the prepubescent
years (9ish to 12ish) she watched *a lot* of Cartoon Network and
Nickelodeon. Though lots of cartoons at that age is not universal, it
seems fairly common. That's a transition period from young child
interests to teen interests. (And it's a common complaint among
middle school teachers that they have no idea on what to do with
middle school kids. ;-) It's a period of flux when their brains and
interests are changing. For my daughter it looked like nothing much
was going on. But internal growth rarely shows itself until it's all
done. It can be a frustrating time! (It helped a lot getting TiVo so
she could record her favorite shows. A lot of the watching had to do
with being afraid of missing something.)

Joyce



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John Olsen

For Mister P-- Kindergarten was that way. He was reading chapter books
too. He would not tell his teachers at school how bored/frustrated he
was. First thing after coming home on the bus, he would have at least a
30 minute meltdown if you even looked at him. i learned very quickly
that to has a full functioning kid at dinner was to give him a protein
snack when he got home for school (no talking!!!) and let him go off in
a "corner" and read to destim. After about 30 minutes he was better but
an hour gave me back my "all is right with the world" child. we could
not schedule anything for after school or he would be a basket case.
Now he fills his days with his favorite thing READING whether it
is a science book or a chess book or a middle ages book he is happier
and a more balanced child. Ruby

Debra Rossing

Basically, there are two broad rough groupings - "radical" unschooling
and "educational" unschooling (and there are probably other
nomenclatures some might use as well). The latter chooses unschooling as
an 'educational method' in contrast to, say, classical, or Charlotte
Mason, or Montessori, or unit studies or whatever. The former extends
the basic trust underpinning unschooling to all of life - food choices,
for instance. Oh, and there are some folks who say things like "well, we
do reading and math in the morning and then we unschool the rest of the
day" - uh, nope, not exactly unschooling. Relaxed, eclectic, and
possibly other descriptive terms for that but unschooling is not really
one of them. "radical" or "whole life" unschooling often goes hand in
hand with gentle parenting and "taking children seriously" and so on.

Deb

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tanna Griffiths

" but I have faith that she will want to
learn something at some point, right? Right now its "Tom & Jerry"
on TV for us and as I read (with envy) about those children that
watch non-stop Discovery, Science Channel and other "smart" shows"
___________________________________________________________

I have to respond to this because it struck me really funny because yesterday my boys (8 and 4) spent part of the day watching TV. Specifically "Tom&Jerry" and "Spongebob". What did they learn from it?

Well, while watching "Tom&Jerry" (my fav. btw) my eldest started talking about why a person's face turns red when they get angry or hang up side down, and why it turns bluish when they can't get air.

From "Spongebob" (not at all my taste) my youngest wanted to learn addition because someone said 2+2=4. From that he wanted to write it and asked what 4+4 and 5+5 were. My eldest asked what Lead was (they mentioned a lead weight) so we looked it up on wikipedia because my answer wasn't satisfactory. We learned it as a element. That it is heavy. I knew that, but we also learned it was once used in candy because it has a sweet component! Wow! I hate "Spongebob" but I now know an interesting fact about Lead that I wouldn't have learned if my eldest hadn't asked.

So, I don't feel that one thing is more "educational" than another. It is more a matter of natural curiosity. My 8 y/o still asks loads of questions and he knows that I will help him find the answers. My 4 y/o just blows me away with some of the things he knows that I never "taught" him.

I should also mention that my eldest watches a lot of Nick and he has created extra characters for shows like "Danny Phantom". He draws them and tells me their powers or characteristics and a plot that surrounds them.

So lets see. We covered Art, Language, Science, Handwriting, and Math (if you are inclined to categorize subjects) after a day of watching "junk" on tv. :)

As for your original question. I started out using a curriculum, moved to that "unschooling everything except..." stage to child-led unit studies to radical unschooling. I guess there is no real in between for us really.

Tanna









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Patty Davis

> > If she is willing
> > to play (meaning mindless HOMEWORK) then she has to give it her
> > all.
>
> Why? That's a serious question.
>
> If someone wants to try something, *is* it important to give it
your
> all? Or is it okay to take what you want from it, even if it's
not
> what *others* think you should be taking from it? Why should there
be
> only one way of experiencing a thing? (As long as your way isn't
> spoiling the experience for others, of course.)
>
> Sandra Dodd wrote a good essay on a different approach to school:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

Wow! Thanks for that article! It really hit home. You also asked
me "why?"... well, I guess I just thought I had lost the battle with
this daughter and she now was fodder for the "other" side. I guess
I felt she now belonged to "them". But thanks for showing me that I
can still have an unschooling view although I do have one still "in
school."

I have to admit that two years later, I still have a very ugly view
of public education and having a very hard time getting over it. I
do bite my tongue when expressing my views (in public... lol), but
the damage that they caused to my younger daughter is something I'm
still trying to undo. When I pulled her out of of public in third
grade she HATED reading and writing and schools punish you for that
(besides it goes into their permanent record). So what do I do? I
bring her home and make her do school at home! It was a little
better, she enjoyed being at home and she did begin to read again
(because of advise from other homeschooler parents to let her read
what she wants). But I always thought we'd end up doing curriculum
in a box at some point (my goal! hahaha). She fussed and I
threatened for her to finish up her language arts and math
assignments. Then I realized, "duh," that this was NOT instilling
any type of love of learning. Well, I now accept that this child is
not a "in a box" type of kid so I need to step back and let her
lead, rather than force her to fit a square peg. Which is why I am
here.

I don't nag her or question what she watches or does right now. I
know that I'm still in re-training myself and need the break as much
as she does. It's almost sad to know that I was so mislead in all I
thought about school and education. I do tend to be a bit
controlling, so this is a real challenge for me. To NOT have the
day planned out and tasks accomplished (well, not true, I do have
time to work on my household tasks now!).

I know its still early and I can only hope that I can draw out a
happy little girl who knows she can do what she wants and be what
she wants to be without fear of what anyone will say as she grows
into a secure and intelligent person.

Thanks for the thought provoking comments!

-Patty

Patty Davis

Ok... I get it. Its not a method, per se, but a life-style. It
exends out further than just how to raise and teach a child, it's
also the way one lives and treats others. With respect and
kindness. They same way you expect to be treated.

Wow... this city girl really has lots to learn! Its only been 5
years since I rejected big corporate America by ceasing to work for
them. After living in the city all my life (with "stuff" as the
reason for living), we moved out to the "hills"; not really country
although there are are some cows and horses nearby. There I gained
my stay-at-home status. Then a sickly MIL came to stay with us, and
she's still here. No problems there, she is the only grandparent my
children have, so we really are fortunate that she plays a daily
role in their lives.

Life makes funny turns and things we think would NEVER happen to us,
happen. I didn't even know what homeschooling was about 5 years
ago. And then I thought it was only for the religious and those
living too far from "real" schools. What a goof I was!

Maybe its a mid-life crisis for me, and I want to live my "second"
half the right way after all the misrepresentations from employers,
schools, etc. Things don't really have to be as difficult as
everyone would have you believe. Maybe its God or just my growing
up. I was too caught up (read "workaholic") in my past life to pay
attention to my two young baby daughters (what a horrible
confession, huh?) and sent them away to Montesorri school as soon as
they were able, between 2 and 3 years of age. Better than day-care,
I told myself. They were learning and preparing to be good
students. Of course, the older daughter couldn't wait to go... and
my younger, she just wanted to stay home. Poor baby, maybe that is
why I'm so protective of her now, I wasn't emotionally or physically
there when she really just needed mom around. And I see now that my
older daughter just was used to me NOT being around and school was
an arena where she had attention and people who told her she did
good. We still need to work on this part of our relationship,
obviously. She still seeks the outside approval of others.

Anyhow, I do appreciate the stories you have shared about your own
situations. Many have posted questions and comments that I'm still
digesting and thinking about. Its amazing how so many different
people are making the unschooling life work for them and their
children. I'm not going to plunge in, but just sort of tread water
and see how this will work for us. I just have to remind myself to
not make it harder than it needs to be... didn't I say that before?
LOL.

Thanks again, everyone for your heartfelt comments. I will continue
to lurk and learn... lol.

-Patty

Kelly Weyd

Mariah would also come home and have a meltdown after school. I am so glad she is at home now, and is allowed to do her own thing.
Kelly

John Olsen <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
For Mister P-- Kindergarten was that way. He was reading chapter books
too. He would not tell his teachers at school how bored/frustrated he
was. First thing after coming home on the bus, he would have at least a
30 minute meltdown if you even looked at him. i learned very quickly
that to has a full functioning kid at dinner was to give him a protein
snack when he got home for school (no talking!!!) and let him go off in
a "corner" and read to destim. After about 30 minutes he was better but
an hour gave me back my "all is right with the world" child. we could
not schedule anything for after school or he would be a basket case.
Now he fills his days with his favorite thing READING whether it
is a science book or a chess book or a middle ages book he is happier
and a more balanced child. Ruby





---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Weyd

Mariah would also come home and have a meltdown after school. I am so glad she is at home now, and is allowed to do her own thing.
Kelly

John Olsen <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
For Mister P-- Kindergarten was that way. He was reading chapter books
too. He would not tell his teachers at school how bored/frustrated he
was. First thing after coming home on the bus, he would have at least a
30 minute meltdown if you even looked at him. i learned very quickly
that to has a full functioning kid at dinner was to give him a protein
snack when he got home for school (no talking!!!) and let him go off in
a "corner" and read to destim. After about 30 minutes he was better but
an hour gave me back my "all is right with the world" child. we could
not schedule anything for after school or he would be a basket case.
Now he fills his days with his favorite thing READING whether it
is a science book or a chess book or a middle ages book he is happier
and a more balanced child. Ruby





---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Weyd

Mariah would also come home and have a meltdown after school. I am so glad she is at home now, and is allowed to do her own thing.
Kelly

John Olsen <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
For Mister P-- Kindergarten was that way. He was reading chapter books
too. He would not tell his teachers at school how bored/frustrated he
was. First thing after coming home on the bus, he would have at least a
30 minute meltdown if you even looked at him. i learned very quickly
that to has a full functioning kid at dinner was to give him a protein
snack when he got home for school (no talking!!!) and let him go off in
a "corner" and read to destim. After about 30 minutes he was better but
an hour gave me back my "all is right with the world" child. we could
not schedule anything for after school or he would be a basket case.
Now he fills his days with his favorite thing READING whether it
is a science book or a chess book or a middle ages book he is happier
and a more balanced child. Ruby





---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Weyd

Mariah would also come home and have a meltdown after school. I am so glad she is at home now, and is allowed to do her own thing.
Kelly

John Olsen <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
For Mister P-- Kindergarten was that way. He was reading chapter books
too. He would not tell his teachers at school how bored/frustrated he
was. First thing after coming home on the bus, he would have at least a
30 minute meltdown if you even looked at him. i learned very quickly
that to has a full functioning kid at dinner was to give him a protein
snack when he got home for school (no talking!!!) and let him go off in
a "corner" and read to destim. After about 30 minutes he was better but
an hour gave me back my "all is right with the world" child. we could
not schedule anything for after school or he would be a basket case.
Now he fills his days with his favorite thing READING whether it
is a science book or a chess book or a middle ages book he is happier
and a more balanced child. Ruby





---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Weyd

Mariah would also come home and have a meltdown after school. I am so glad she is at home now, and is allowed to do her own thing.
Kelly

John Olsen <DRVOTE@...> wrote:
For Mister P-- Kindergarten was that way. He was reading chapter books
too. He would not tell his teachers at school how bored/frustrated he
was. First thing after coming home on the bus, he would have at least a
30 minute meltdown if you even looked at him. i learned very quickly
that to has a full functioning kid at dinner was to give him a protein
snack when he got home for school (no talking!!!) and let him go off in
a "corner" and read to destim. After about 30 minutes he was better but
an hour gave me back my "all is right with the world" child. we could
not schedule anything for after school or he would be a basket case.
Now he fills his days with his favorite thing READING whether it
is a science book or a chess book or a middle ages book he is happier
and a more balanced child. Ruby





---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: homeschool4us@...


Here's my question for you: I have heard the terms "radical
unschooling" and "relaxed unschooling"... are there other
levels/catagories of unschooling? And what are the definitions? I
guess I'm hoping to hear from some of you who classify yourselves
as "this" or "that" and why you consider your methods part of that
type of unschooling.

-=-=-=-=-

I think (and I am admittedly very outspoken about it!) that there are
not *that* many catagories of unschooling. Different *levels* as you're
getting to the top, sure---but, to me, unschooling is fairly *pure*.

Levels:

When you first researching, you drop the schoolwork; but you may still
be harping on them and wishing that they would DO something academic.

Then you start seeing some of the learning happening when you used to
think he was just daydreaming or wasting time or "playing."

So then you think maybe he can handle ofther things---like food or
bedtimes or chores without force.

Then you start reveling in all the stuff he's acquired while apparently
"doing nothing."

Then he starts doing AMAZING things, so there's PROOF that all those
crazy list people weren't lying.



Catagories:

There are the folks who say, "We unschool except for math and reading."
They aren't unschooling. They're just less demanding about the other
subjects. They still have an agenda. And it's not about trusting the
children.

There's just the simple unschooling of not bringing school home. Of not
trying to replicate school in your home. I don't think there's a great
deal of trust in this category, but it suits some *parents* well. They
tend to think that chores and bedtimes and food are still areas that
children could never "regulate" themselves adequately, so the parents
keep tabs on these things and are still in control.

Then there are the "benign neglect" unschoolers. Although *I* feel this
group technically understands Holt's philosophy, they're missing a huge
opportunity. They believe that kids will learn no matter what---and you
know what? They DO. But these folks don't make much of an effort to
expose their children to more of the world. They fill the house with
books and movies and games. But the kids don't go anywhere or meet
anyone interesting. They learn, because that's what humans do. But
their worlds could be so much richer if just for a little more effort
on the parents' part. Lazy parents---or maybe they just don't care
enough.

Finally we have the radicals, who are your list owners and moderators
here as well as many of the regular posters. We believe that children
are born learners, that they are hard-wired to learn. We know that they
have their entire lives to keep learning. The thought that our kids
would STOP learning would be the *worst* thing (short of death or major
injury) that could happen to them. We trust and respect our children,
and we believe they are fully capable of learning what they need to
know when they need to know it--that includes sleep and food and chores
and money. We involve them in our lives. We talk A LOT. We try to
expose them to as much of our world as we can. We try to make their
worlds HUGE. We try not to stand in their ways, but to act as their
partners, their facilitators in whatever they wish to pursue. We know
that they will not necessarily make the same life chioces we do/have,
but we're OK with that. Hopefully we have helped give them the tools to
make wise decisions---even if those decisions aren't the ones we would
make. We work hard to provide a rich life--full of unique opportunities
and ...um..weird people. <g>

I don't think there's a "relaxed unschoolers" category. Relaxed
HOMEschoolers, maybe.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org




________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: homeschool4us@...


Here's my question for you: I have heard the terms "radical
unschooling" and "relaxed unschooling"... are there other
levels/catagories of unschooling? And what are the definitions? I
guess I'm hoping to hear from some of you who classify yourselves
as "this" or "that" and why you consider your methods part of that
type of unschooling.

-=-=-=-=-

I think (and I am admittedly very outspoken about it!) that there are
not *that* many catagories of unschooling. Different *levels* as you're
getting to the top, sure---but, to me, unschooling is fairly *pure*.

Levels:

When you first researching, you drop the schoolwork; but you may still
be harping on them and wishing that they would DO something academic.

Then you start seeing some of the learning happening when you used to
think he was just daydreaming or wasting time or "playing."

So then you think maybe he can handle ofther things---like food or
bedtimes or chores without force.

Then you start reveling in all the stuff he's acquired while apparently
"doing nothing."

Then he starts doing AMAZING things, so there's PROOF that all those
crazy list people weren't lying.



Catagories:

There are the folks who say, "We unschool except for math and reading."
They aren't unschooling. They're just less demanding about the other
subjects. They still have an agenda. And it's not about trusting the
children.

There's just the simple unschooling of not bringing school home. Of not
trying to replicate school in your home. I don't think there's a great
deal of trust in this category, but it suits some *parents* well. They
tend to think that chores and bedtimes and food are still areas that
children could never "regulate" themselves adequately, so the parents
keep tabs on these things and are still in control.

Then there are the "benign neglect" unschoolers. Although *I* feel this
group technically understands Holt's philosophy, they're missing a huge
opportunity. They believe that kids will learn no matter what---and you
know what? They DO. But these folks don't make much of an effort to
expose their children to more of the world. They fill the house with
books and movies and games. But the kids don't go anywhere or meet
anyone interesting. They learn, because that's what humans do. But
their worlds could be so much richer if just for a little more effort
on the parents' part. Lazy parents---or maybe they just don't care
enough.

Finally we have the radicals, who are your list owners and moderators
here as well as many of the regular posters. We believe that children
are born learners, that they are hard-wired to learn. We know that they
have their entire lives to keep learning. The thought that our kids
would STOP learning would be the *worst* thing (short of death or major
injury) that could happen to them. We trust and respect our children,
and we believe they are fully capable of learning what they need to
know when they need to know it--that includes sleep and food and chores
and money. We involve them in our lives. We talk A LOT. We try to
expose them to as much of our world as we can. We try to make their
worlds HUGE. We try not to stand in their ways, but to act as their
partners, their facilitators in whatever they wish to pursue. We know
that they will not necessarily make the same life chioces we do/have,
but we're OK with that. Hopefully we have helped give them the tools to
make wise decisions---even if those decisions aren't the ones we would
make. We work hard to provide a rich life--full of unique opportunities
and ...um..weird people. <g>

I don't think there's a "relaxed unschoolers" category. Relaxed
HOMEschoolers, maybe.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org




________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: homeschool4us@...


Here's my question for you: I have heard the terms "radical
unschooling" and "relaxed unschooling"... are there other
levels/catagories of unschooling? And what are the definitions? I
guess I'm hoping to hear from some of you who classify yourselves
as "this" or "that" and why you consider your methods part of that
type of unschooling.

-=-=-=-=-

I think (and I am admittedly very outspoken about it!) that there are
not *that* many catagories of unschooling. Different *levels* as you're
getting to the top, sure---but, to me, unschooling is fairly *pure*.

Levels:

When you first researching, you drop the schoolwork; but you may still
be harping on them and wishing that they would DO something academic.

Then you start seeing some of the learning happening when you used to
think he was just daydreaming or wasting time or "playing."

So then you think maybe he can handle ofther things---like food or
bedtimes or chores without force.

Then you start reveling in all the stuff he's acquired while apparently
"doing nothing."

Then he starts doing AMAZING things, so there's PROOF that all those
crazy list people weren't lying.



Catagories:

There are the folks who say, "We unschool except for math and reading."
They aren't unschooling. They're just less demanding about the other
subjects. They still have an agenda. And it's not about trusting the
children.

There's just the simple unschooling of not bringing school home. Of not
trying to replicate school in your home. I don't think there's a great
deal of trust in this category, but it suits some *parents* well. They
tend to think that chores and bedtimes and food are still areas that
children could never "regulate" themselves adequately, so the parents
keep tabs on these things and are still in control.

Then there are the "benign neglect" unschoolers. Although *I* feel this
group technically understands Holt's philosophy, they're missing a huge
opportunity. They believe that kids will learn no matter what---and you
know what? They DO. But these folks don't make much of an effort to
expose their children to more of the world. They fill the house with
books and movies and games. But the kids don't go anywhere or meet
anyone interesting. They learn, because that's what humans do. But
their worlds could be so much richer if just for a little more effort
on the parents' part. Lazy parents---or maybe they just don't care
enough.

Finally we have the radicals, who are your list owners and moderators
here as well as many of the regular posters. We believe that children
are born learners, that they are hard-wired to learn. We know that they
have their entire lives to keep learning. The thought that our kids
would STOP learning would be the *worst* thing (short of death or major
injury) that could happen to them. We trust and respect our children,
and we believe they are fully capable of learning what they need to
know when they need to know it--that includes sleep and food and chores
and money. We involve them in our lives. We talk A LOT. We try to
expose them to as much of our world as we can. We try to make their
worlds HUGE. We try not to stand in their ways, but to act as their
partners, their facilitators in whatever they wish to pursue. We know
that they will not necessarily make the same life chioces we do/have,
but we're OK with that. Hopefully we have helped give them the tools to
make wise decisions---even if those decisions aren't the ones we would
make. We work hard to provide a rich life--full of unique opportunities
and ...um..weird people. <g>

I don't think there's a "relaxed unschoolers" category. Relaxed
HOMEschoolers, maybe.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org




________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: DRVOTE@...
.
We consider ourselves to be "eclectic" unschoolers. Mostly my son
does reading, videos (DVD's), audio science programs and computer to
do his school work. He is also Dual enrolled with his home public
school. for us this works great. He takes Music (vocal) and art in
the general ed class setting and works with his SP ED teacher once a
week on his social skills.

-=-=-=-

Eclectic HOMEschoolers. There's no "school work" in unschooling. Just
*learning*.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.