Cameron Parham

I certainly will read Unconditional Parenting and would like a reminder of the name of Rue Cream's book and want to hear about other books that might help us. I think children who have developmental delays or emotional scars (mine are clearly significantly harmed by my marriage's years of woe and our subsequent divorce) are extra confusing. My kids don't fight all day, and our times of sweetness are increasing daily since we fully committed to RU (not quite a month ago). This method of life suits me constitutionally, so that helps a lot. However, there is a lot of very cruel talk towards me and rather a lot of hitting between all of them. We have been to a therapist off and on since 1996, and that has helped. But it really wears me down to be spoken to so cruelly. I have modeled patience, honoring all people, etc beyond what I could have imagined. Lots of people have told me things like "you must be the most patient person on the planet." But I can snap. And
sometimes advice that works on children who are less scarred or quirky is hard to apply because these kids can and do hurt others (kids and adults) quite badly. I really appreciate the concerns of the person below regarding the kids' future relationship. My oldest just pretty much avoids the 2 younger ones so as to cut down on the screaming and fighting, and longs for times they are away. And they so often speak to me like I am a stupid erring servant. I am patient with this most of the time (depending on what is happenning, like running late to work I may have to ignore it). But last night I snapped and said sharply "Oh! I am so tired of this! How could you speak to me this way! I wouldn't talk to a dog in the gutter like that! I am a person with feelings! A real person!" I specifically explained (again, again) how it made me feel. I wanted to escape! I don't think it's a good idea to model tolerating verbal abuse which I feel like I am doing sometimes. Yet
Iwant to model patience and be their safe haven too. OK, guess that's the problem. How to be their safe haven when they are abusive to me and I don't want them to learn to abuse others either. Thanks!
, .----- Original Message ----
From: Kelly Weyd <kellmar98@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 6:53:41 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Fighting Siblings

I don't think anyone is trying to be rude or disrespectful to you. Let me put a bit of a different spin on it. I have two girls 7 & 8. My 7 year old has ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorder and Non-Verbal Learning Disability. My 7 year olds social skills and ability to cope are more like that of a 3 year old. She can not get along with her sister, and she is bigger than her older sister. I can not just tell them to work it out or play together when the 7 year old is pummeling the 8 year old. For my 7 year old it's not about attention. She has no self control, no impulse control and no ability to keep her hands to herself. I as a parent have to step in and protect my 8 year old. I have to step in and model appropriate behavior, and I have to separate them if need be. And I can't turn away. It does bother me when my 7 year old hits, punches, pinches, bites....... you name it. I can't let my 8 year old be tortured. When my husband and I are long gone, it's just gonna
be the two of them. It's my responsibility to help them form a loving, life long relationship.
Kelly

Georgette Teekel <beautifulsassyprinc ess@yahoo. com> wrote:
I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU PEOPLE,IF YOU TURN AWAY AND LET CHILDREN KNOW IT DOESN'T BOTHER YOU in my EXPERIENCE that'll make them stop,there only doing it in m EXPERIENCE to get attention and there again my CHILDREN ARE 2,3 AND 4.

Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@ yahoo.com> wrote: I agree with Kelly and Ren on this one (and pretty much everything else, lol)

I had an older brother who was just plain violent. If my mom would have forced
us to "play" with each other exclusively, I'd be dead. Sad part is that's not
an exaggeration. Plus, he would have attacked her which he finally did when he
was 17yo, after attacking me. He had one weakness; a sensitive scalp. Somehow
I had managed to pin him by holding his hair at the back of his head, and holding his
head down to his knees so he couldn't hit me. We danced like that till my mom
finally got home and opened the front door. I yelled for them to leave the door open and move. I shoved him and ran so fast out the door and kept right on running. I told her
I would never come back as long as he lived there. She kicked him out then blamed it on me. The truth was, that when he lost me as his target, he attacked her, and she had finally
felt the abuse first hand.

This shaped the way I raised my kids. I don't believe in hitting my kids and I have never allowed them to hit each other. This doesn't mean it has never happened, but it's been rare.
I think groups like this and the books you all have mentioned are very needed in this world.

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[email protected]

Cameron, I will respond to this in more detail, but I need to go
prepare for a YuGiOh! Tournament here this afternoon---and make three
more lasagnes. (Plus, I was derailed with beautifulsassyprincess this
morning. <g>)

Anyway: Rue's book: I can't recommend it highly enough: Parenting a
Free Child, an Unschooled Life by Rue Kream

You can order it at http://www.freechild.info/ It's $14 plus shipping
and worth its weight in gold.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
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Cameron Parham

OK! It is ordered and I anxiously await its arrival. Thanks!!


----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:46:49 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Rue's book WAS Re: Fighting

Cameron, I will respond to this in more detail, but I need to go
prepare for a YuGiOh! Tournament here this afternoon--- and make three
more lasagnes. (Plus, I was derailed with beautifulsassyprinc ess this
morning. <g>)

Anyway: Rue's book: I can't recommend it highly enough: Parenting a
Free Child, an Unschooled Life by Rue Kream

You can order it at http://www.freechil d.info/ It's $14 plus shipping
and worth its weight in gold.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Erica Iwamura

this is a great book! I read some of a copy that a friend has. I just
ordered mine so that I can have it handy!

Erica

On 3/27/07, Cameron Parham <acsp2205@...> wrote:
>
> OK! It is ordered and I anxiously await its arrival. Thanks!!
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo%40aol.com>" <kbcdlovejo@...<kbcdlovejo%40aol.com>
> >
> To: [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:46:49 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Rue's book WAS Re: Fighting
>
> Cameron, I will respond to this in more detail, but I need to go
> prepare for a YuGiOh! Tournament here this afternoon--- and make three
> more lasagnes. (Plus, I was derailed with beautifulsassyprinc ess this
> morning. <g>)
>
> Anyway: Rue's book: I can't recommend it highly enough: Parenting a
> Free Child, an Unschooled Life by Rue Kream
>
> You can order it at http://www.freechil d.info/ It's $14 plus shipping
> and worth its weight in gold.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
"Play is the highest form of research." - Albert Einstein


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@...

I certainly will read Unconditional Parenting and would like a
reminder of the
name of Rue Cream's book and want to hear about other books that might
help us.

-=-=-=-

Rue Kream's Parenting a Free Child, An Unschooled Life
http://www.freechild.info

-=-=-=-==-

I think children who have developmental delays or emotional scars (mine
are
clearly significantly harmed by my marriage's years of woe and our
subsequent
divorce) are extra confusing. My kids don't fight all day, and our
times of
sweetness are increasing daily since we fully committed to RU (not
quite a month
ago). This method of life suits me constitutionally, so that helps a
lot.

-=-=-=-

Good. It can be *very* healing!

-=-=-=-

However, there is a lot of very cruel talk towards me and rather a lot
of
hitting between all of them. We have been to a therapist off and on
since 1996,
and that has helped. But it really wears me down to be spoken to so
cruelly.
I have modeled patience, honoring all people, etc beyond what I could
have
imagined. Lots of people have told me things like "you must be the
most patient
person on the planet."

-=-=-=-

Have you said, "DON'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY!!"?

Sometimes we're working so hard to be kind and gentle and even-keeled
that they don't know we're at the end of the rope. Sometimes we need to
be heard too, and "I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE" is OK.

-=-=-=-

But I can snap.

-=-=-=-=-=-

We all do. And it's not a bad thing for the kids to see you snap AND
(more importantly) how you deal with that.

-=-=-=-=-

And sometimes advice that works on children who are less scarred or
quirky is hard
to apply because these kids can and do hurt others (kids and adults)
quite
badly.

-=-=-=-

Can you give us some examples? Everything's relative---*how* badly? And
remind me how old they are. ??

-=-=-=-=-

And they so often speak to me like I am a stupid erring servant. I am
patient
with this most of the time (depending on what is happenning, like
running late
to work I may have to ignore it). But last night I snapped and said
sharply
"Oh! I am so tired of this! How could you speak to me this way! I
wouldn't
talk to a dog in the gutter like that! I am a person with feelings! A
real
person!" I specifically explained (again, again) how it made me feel.

-=-=-=-=-

OK---you DO! <g> But you're doing it angrily? If they're getting
*anger* in return---maybe that's what they expect and react in kind.
Kind of like when someone hits you, you hit back in anger---but with
words. When mine hit me when they were little, rather than get angry
(which was my first response), I would get "hurt." They would respond
with compassion instead of anger. Am I explaining that well?

Someone hits you (physically or verbally) and you react with
anger---either hitting back or yelling---you evoke anger in THEM.

Someone hits you and you react with surprise and hurt---you evoke their
compassion and sorrow.

It was a hard thing for me to change---my brother and I fought like
cats and dogs, and my parents both used spankings---so hitting made me
ANGRY. Changing that feeling to hurt (which is what it IS,
REALLY!---that anger is just a defense.) is an honest reaction and will
evoke a different response.

It's easy with my kids---but if Ben or my parents hurt me, I still
react immediately with anger. I'm *really* hurt and should show it, I
guess. I need to work on that. <g>

-==-=-==-=

I wanted to escape! I don't think it's a good idea to model tolerating
verbal abuse which
I feel like I am doing sometimes. Yet I want to model patience and be
their safe haven too. OK, guess that's the
problem. How to be their safe haven when they are abusive to me and I
don't
want them to learn to abuse others either. Thanks!

-=-=-=-=-

During a cool spell when everyone is getting along, discuss the
problem. Say that you're feeling tromped upon and don't know how to
handle it. Ask for their ideas.

Did your husband treat you that way? Verbally abusive? Is that the
model they're used to? Maybe let them know that they will have a hard
time surviving a marriage (as y'all did) if that is the way they expect
a marriage to look.

Do you know of a family with GOOD communication skills? Can you visit
and talk with them? You can come down here a few days! <g>

Do THEY want to change? Have you asked them? Do they like living like
that? How do they think you can fix it?

I'm sorry it's that yucky. It IS fixable...IF they will work at it.
Their ages will matter though. Just to get everyone on board.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org


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