Basic confusion
acsp2205
I am an unschooler at heart and had unschooled for 3 years, then this
year we tried a mix, with me providing a very small amount of
instuction, that leaves probably 95% of our days for us to 'unschool.' I
have in some ways been happier with this mix, and some ways not. I have
several questions regarding our approach. I can't figure out how to ask
them succinctly. For example, reading late (by common standards) then
reading well runs in my family. So after reading many homeschooling and
unschooling books, when I found my daughter had no real interest in
reading, I did not worry. She is amazing and she will learn to read and
probably very well. But now for the problems. Part of our problem is
that the 3 kids have to go to a sitter for the 5 or 6 24-hour shifts I
work per month. I am the only support and this is unavoidable, and gives
many more days at home than most working parents have, Our sitting
family is loving and wonderful but quite different than we are. Their 4
boys are homeschooled by a strict curriculum. They start early (not
later that 5 yrs old). Now those kids, despite their mothers' support
(at least to my face) harrass my kids with comparisons, which of course
hurt. Furthermore, last summer my ex husband ask to visit the kids at
his far-away home for the first time in 3 years. He was the original
proponent of homeschooling in our family, but now is engaged to an
'early child educator.' He and she have decided maybe Em is dyslexic
(plus other educator-jargon labels). Now of course you aren't going to
know how to work with an ex-spouse and that's not my question. These
people and others have undermined Em's confidence. She has said that
it's my fault she isn't reading already. Of course this pressure has
nothing to do with her readiness but has hurt her feelings and her faith
in me. So she asked me to work on her reading with her, and for a while
it seemed she enjoyed it and felt confident and ready. Now she doesn't
want to do it, and I have quietly let it be. But she still expresses the
opinion that I should have 'made her do it' earlier, though now she
wouldn't want that, and she didn't then. In summary, how do you let
them go if they hold you responsible for the outcome? What do I do about
outside pressures/comparisons? We have to spend time with so many people
who do that. I am mystified how so often people can compliment me on the
kids' kindness, nonjudgementalness,and creativity, while still
criticizing their (apparent) lack of academic pursuits. It's a basic
tenet of our family that we are all imperfect, fallible, amazing
treasures. But they are very young to have the wisdom to carry them
through criticism by family and close friends. Next question: how can
kids explore the universe without some exposure to what's out there? I
read widely, involve myself in their interests and share mine with them.
I remember when I was mulling over possible careers at age 20, one
limiting factor was my actual lack of knowlege of possible careers. You
can't pursue something you don't know exists. I do invite the kids to
the library, bookstores, etc. I must admit, too, that I feel there are
certain books that are so important to read before growing up that I
must require they be read. Wha do I do with that?? And one more: my
oldest son has often spent so many consecutive days at the
TV/computer/video games that he barely eats or talks or sleeps. The
more he does it the farther away he seems. This isn't one of those "if I
let him" things. He had freedom to choose and did this for months at a
time. I was a very daydreamy child and I think I recognize his
behavior. But how can he know what else might interest him if he does
so much of any one thing? Thanks. Please accept my apologies if my
questions seem confusing or too long.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
year we tried a mix, with me providing a very small amount of
instuction, that leaves probably 95% of our days for us to 'unschool.' I
have in some ways been happier with this mix, and some ways not. I have
several questions regarding our approach. I can't figure out how to ask
them succinctly. For example, reading late (by common standards) then
reading well runs in my family. So after reading many homeschooling and
unschooling books, when I found my daughter had no real interest in
reading, I did not worry. She is amazing and she will learn to read and
probably very well. But now for the problems. Part of our problem is
that the 3 kids have to go to a sitter for the 5 or 6 24-hour shifts I
work per month. I am the only support and this is unavoidable, and gives
many more days at home than most working parents have, Our sitting
family is loving and wonderful but quite different than we are. Their 4
boys are homeschooled by a strict curriculum. They start early (not
later that 5 yrs old). Now those kids, despite their mothers' support
(at least to my face) harrass my kids with comparisons, which of course
hurt. Furthermore, last summer my ex husband ask to visit the kids at
his far-away home for the first time in 3 years. He was the original
proponent of homeschooling in our family, but now is engaged to an
'early child educator.' He and she have decided maybe Em is dyslexic
(plus other educator-jargon labels). Now of course you aren't going to
know how to work with an ex-spouse and that's not my question. These
people and others have undermined Em's confidence. She has said that
it's my fault she isn't reading already. Of course this pressure has
nothing to do with her readiness but has hurt her feelings and her faith
in me. So she asked me to work on her reading with her, and for a while
it seemed she enjoyed it and felt confident and ready. Now she doesn't
want to do it, and I have quietly let it be. But she still expresses the
opinion that I should have 'made her do it' earlier, though now she
wouldn't want that, and she didn't then. In summary, how do you let
them go if they hold you responsible for the outcome? What do I do about
outside pressures/comparisons? We have to spend time with so many people
who do that. I am mystified how so often people can compliment me on the
kids' kindness, nonjudgementalness,and creativity, while still
criticizing their (apparent) lack of academic pursuits. It's a basic
tenet of our family that we are all imperfect, fallible, amazing
treasures. But they are very young to have the wisdom to carry them
through criticism by family and close friends. Next question: how can
kids explore the universe without some exposure to what's out there? I
read widely, involve myself in their interests and share mine with them.
I remember when I was mulling over possible careers at age 20, one
limiting factor was my actual lack of knowlege of possible careers. You
can't pursue something you don't know exists. I do invite the kids to
the library, bookstores, etc. I must admit, too, that I feel there are
certain books that are so important to read before growing up that I
must require they be read. Wha do I do with that?? And one more: my
oldest son has often spent so many consecutive days at the
TV/computer/video games that he barely eats or talks or sleeps. The
more he does it the farther away he seems. This isn't one of those "if I
let him" things. He had freedom to choose and did this for months at a
time. I was a very daydreamy child and I think I recognize his
behavior. But how can he know what else might interest him if he does
so much of any one thing? Thanks. Please accept my apologies if my
questions seem confusing or too long.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Katharine Wise
"But she still expresses the
opinion that I should have 'made her do it' earlier, though now she
wouldn't want that, and she didn't then. In summary, how do you let
them go if they hold you responsible for the outcome? "
Maybe you've already done this, but would it help if you shared with her about other unschooler's experience with later reading, letting her know your confidence that she, too, will learn to read when she's ready?
"I must admit, too, that I feel there are
certain books that are so important to read before growing up that I
must require they be read. Wha do I do with that?? "
I'm sure not everyone would agree on those core books, but if there are books that you think are so wonderful that you really want your children to know them too, how about saying, "Hey, look, here's one of my favorite books! Let's read it together!" And if they aren't interested, try a different book. Go back to the first in a year or when it relates to something else they're interested in. Read the books together because you love them and want to share them, not because they're a requirement for successful childhood -- I assume you hope that they, too, will love the books and not just endure them.
Katharine
____________________________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
opinion that I should have 'made her do it' earlier, though now she
wouldn't want that, and she didn't then. In summary, how do you let
them go if they hold you responsible for the outcome? "
Maybe you've already done this, but would it help if you shared with her about other unschooler's experience with later reading, letting her know your confidence that she, too, will learn to read when she's ready?
"I must admit, too, that I feel there are
certain books that are so important to read before growing up that I
must require they be read. Wha do I do with that?? "
I'm sure not everyone would agree on those core books, but if there are books that you think are so wonderful that you really want your children to know them too, how about saying, "Hey, look, here's one of my favorite books! Let's read it together!" And if they aren't interested, try a different book. Go back to the first in a year or when it relates to something else they're interested in. Read the books together because you love them and want to share them, not because they're a requirement for successful childhood -- I assume you hope that they, too, will love the books and not just endure them.
Katharine
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cameron Parham
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I sure agree with what you have said. Emily is aware that many children read later and that I am not concerned. However, she comes under pressures from other sources and I think this is the problem. I know that many unschoolers come under these pressures, and to an extent we must tolerate them and help the children see that we are confident in our lifestyles, ourselves, and them. It's just rather wearing in practice at times. I am a single parent who manages to homeschool because I work 5 or 6 24 hour shifts a month and am home the rest of the time.
As to my question about the books I see as important: I already read books to the 3 kids daily. We love this. But there is a 5 year spread and some books I want my 13 yr old to be exposed to are not appropriate for the 7 and 10 yr olds. I can not say they are all beloved by me. Some are downright painful (and some of these will wait for more maturity) such as Hiroshima, etc. But some books that are hard to read are very important. I think the issues behind these two questions are deep philosophical issues, and the details may just distract from the real questions. from ---- Original Message ----
From: Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:22:47 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Basic confusion
"But she still expresses the
opinion that I should have 'made her do it' earlier, though now she
wouldn't want that, and she didn't then. In summary, how do you let
them go if they hold you responsible for the outcome? "
Maybe you've already done this, but would it help if you shared with her about other unschooler's experience with later reading, letting her know your confidence that she, too, will learn to read when she's ready?
"I must admit, too, that I feel there are
certain books that are so important to read before growing up that I
must require they be read. Wha do I do with that?? "
I'm sure not everyone would agree on those core books, but if there are books that you think are so wonderful that you really want your children to know them too, how about saying, "Hey, look, here's one of my favorite books! Let's read it together!" And if they aren't interested, try a different book. Go back to the first in a year or when it relates to something else they're interested in. Read the books together because you love them and want to share them, not because they're a requirement for successful childhood -- I assume you hope that they, too, will love the books and not just endure them.
Katharine
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames. yahoo.com/ platform? platform= 120121
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As to my question about the books I see as important: I already read books to the 3 kids daily. We love this. But there is a 5 year spread and some books I want my 13 yr old to be exposed to are not appropriate for the 7 and 10 yr olds. I can not say they are all beloved by me. Some are downright painful (and some of these will wait for more maturity) such as Hiroshima, etc. But some books that are hard to read are very important. I think the issues behind these two questions are deep philosophical issues, and the details may just distract from the real questions. from ---- Original Message ----
From: Katharine Wise <katharinewise@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:22:47 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Basic confusion
"But she still expresses the
opinion that I should have 'made her do it' earlier, though now she
wouldn't want that, and she didn't then. In summary, how do you let
them go if they hold you responsible for the outcome? "
Maybe you've already done this, but would it help if you shared with her about other unschooler's experience with later reading, letting her know your confidence that she, too, will learn to read when she's ready?
"I must admit, too, that I feel there are
certain books that are so important to read before growing up that I
must require they be read. Wha do I do with that?? "
I'm sure not everyone would agree on those core books, but if there are books that you think are so wonderful that you really want your children to know them too, how about saying, "Hey, look, here's one of my favorite books! Let's read it together!" And if they aren't interested, try a different book. Go back to the first in a year or when it relates to something else they're interested in. Read the books together because you love them and want to share them, not because they're a requirement for successful childhood -- I assume you hope that they, too, will love the books and not just endure them.
Katharine
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames. yahoo.com/ platform? platform= 120121
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
concepts - opression and religious freedom are two biggies right
now. He's not doing this bc of something he's read or someone made a
point of "exposing" him to the concepts. He hates to read books and
doesn't want any read to him. But he's really really interested in
these ideas so he's finding ways to explore them through music, 2d
arts, movies, tv, games, and discussion. Its a pretty intense
process for him.
I'm forgetting where I learned this, but somewhere along the way I
came across a theory that this sort of philosophical exploration is
a developmental process - its normal for teens, especially. Its
certainly something I've noticed many times in the alternative
community over the years.
Not everyone will choose to read Hiroshima, or The Handmaid's Tale,
or A Gathering of Spirit. Those are personal decisions, not
something to be imposed. If your dds are looking for that kind of
reading, great, but if not, just as great. They will find a way to
connect with big ideas and difficult concepts (if that's what they
are seeking) in other ways. Maybe even talking with you!
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
<acsp2205@...> wrote:
>some books I want my 13 yr old to be exposed to are not appropriateMy 13yo stepson is in the process of exploring some pretty hard
>for the 7 and 10 yr olds. I can not say they are all beloved by
>me. Some are downright painful (and some of these will wait for
>more maturity) such as Hiroshima, etc. But some books that are hard
>to read are very important.
concepts - opression and religious freedom are two biggies right
now. He's not doing this bc of something he's read or someone made a
point of "exposing" him to the concepts. He hates to read books and
doesn't want any read to him. But he's really really interested in
these ideas so he's finding ways to explore them through music, 2d
arts, movies, tv, games, and discussion. Its a pretty intense
process for him.
I'm forgetting where I learned this, but somewhere along the way I
came across a theory that this sort of philosophical exploration is
a developmental process - its normal for teens, especially. Its
certainly something I've noticed many times in the alternative
community over the years.
Not everyone will choose to read Hiroshima, or The Handmaid's Tale,
or A Gathering of Spirit. Those are personal decisions, not
something to be imposed. If your dds are looking for that kind of
reading, great, but if not, just as great. They will find a way to
connect with big ideas and difficult concepts (if that's what they
are seeking) in other ways. Maybe even talking with you!
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
Cameron Parham
Thanks for your reply, which made plenty of sense. My kids are aware that I feel war and killing are wrong, and inexpressibly sad. Our culture right now is trying to glorify war. I'd really like my kids to read some of the books which helped me understand the reality of what war actually is. I feel like you are saying that I can make sure that my kids know my feelings, then let them explore where they will. I agree with this: that what they desire to intergrate into themselves is much more real than what I impose. I guess when this issue come up I feel so intense that it's hard to let this go.
----- Original Message ----
From: plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2007 10:06:26 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning without books
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@.. .> wrote:
concepts - opression and religious freedom are two biggies right
now. He's not doing this bc of something he's read or someone made a
point of "exposing" him to the concepts. He hates to read books and
doesn't want any read to him. But he's really really interested in
these ideas so he's finding ways to explore them through music, 2d
arts, movies, tv, games, and discussion. Its a pretty intense
process for him.
I'm forgetting where I learned this, but somewhere along the way I
came across a theory that this sort of philosophical exploration is
a developmental process - its normal for teens, especially. Its
certainly something I've noticed many times in the alternative
community over the years.
Not everyone will choose to read Hiroshima, or The Handmaid's Tale,
or A Gathering of Spirit. Those are personal decisions, not
something to be imposed. If your dds are looking for that kind of
reading, great, but if not, just as great. They will find a way to
connect with big ideas and difficult concepts (if that's what they
are seeking) in other ways. Maybe even talking with you!
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2007 10:06:26 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning without books
--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, Cameron Parham
<acsp2205@.. .> wrote:
>some books I want my 13 yr old to be exposed to are not appropriateMy 13yo stepson is in the process of exploring some pretty hard
>for the 7 and 10 yr olds. I can not say they are all beloved by
>me. Some are downright painful (and some of these will wait for
>more maturity) such as Hiroshima, etc. But some books that are hard
>to read are very important.
concepts - opression and religious freedom are two biggies right
now. He's not doing this bc of something he's read or someone made a
point of "exposing" him to the concepts. He hates to read books and
doesn't want any read to him. But he's really really interested in
these ideas so he's finding ways to explore them through music, 2d
arts, movies, tv, games, and discussion. Its a pretty intense
process for him.
I'm forgetting where I learned this, but somewhere along the way I
came across a theory that this sort of philosophical exploration is
a developmental process - its normal for teens, especially. Its
certainly something I've noticed many times in the alternative
community over the years.
Not everyone will choose to read Hiroshima, or The Handmaid's Tale,
or A Gathering of Spirit. Those are personal decisions, not
something to be imposed. If your dds are looking for that kind of
reading, great, but if not, just as great. They will find a way to
connect with big ideas and difficult concepts (if that's what they
are seeking) in other ways. Maybe even talking with you!
---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@...
Thanks for your reply, which made plenty of sense. My kids are aware
that I feel
war and killing are wrong, and inexpressibly sad. Our culture right now
is
trying to glorify war. I'd really like my kids to read some of the
books which
helped me understand the reality of what war actually is. I feel like
you are
saying that I can make sure that my kids know my feelings, then let
them explore
where they will. I agree with this: that what they desire to intergrate
into
themselves is much more real than what I impose. I guess when this
issue come
up I feel so intense that it's hard to let this go.
-=-=-=-
What if someone else thought it was important for you to read pro-war
books? I mean, you don't like what's being imposed on you right now,
right? The glorificaton of war?
If you're imposing *your* will, does that make it right? Would you read
what another said you should?
Just because they're important to *you* doesn't mean they are for
everyone!
When they are ready, they will ask your opinion. They *may* choose to
read what you suggest. They may not. Are you OK with that?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: acsp2205@...
Thanks for your reply, which made plenty of sense. My kids are aware
that I feel
war and killing are wrong, and inexpressibly sad. Our culture right now
is
trying to glorify war. I'd really like my kids to read some of the
books which
helped me understand the reality of what war actually is. I feel like
you are
saying that I can make sure that my kids know my feelings, then let
them explore
where they will. I agree with this: that what they desire to intergrate
into
themselves is much more real than what I impose. I guess when this
issue come
up I feel so intense that it's hard to let this go.
-=-=-=-
What if someone else thought it was important for you to read pro-war
books? I mean, you don't like what's being imposed on you right now,
right? The glorificaton of war?
If you're imposing *your* will, does that make it right? Would you read
what another said you should?
Just because they're important to *you* doesn't mean they are for
everyone!
When they are ready, they will ask your opinion. They *may* choose to
read what you suggest. They may not. Are you OK with that?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Cameron Parham
I am actually very tuned in to learning where a person is, and not forcing my ideas on people. I don't think that works anyway. My kids know me well enough, I think, to understand that I want them to understand why I believe what I believe, and that whatever they believe, I will love them and try to understand. Two days ago my 7 yo son showed me that one night when he was mad, he hammered a metal fixture in the bathroom flat. I told him I was aware he was very angry that night, and thanked him for trusting me to care how he felt rather than be angry. He replied, "I'd trust you with anything." I felt really happy about that (and happy he didn't hit the hot water pipe 2 millimeters to the right). I guess for the most part I teach the kids that all humans are fallible, and to avoid anyone who claims that they are the oracle of truth. Having said that, I do teach that there are some absolute wrong things in life. Not many, but some, and that one is killing. And they have
already frequently chosen not to read what I recommend, although they sometimes do. I will have to think about this some more.
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:09:26 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning without books
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@yahoo. com
Thanks for your reply, which made plenty of sense. My kids are aware
that I feel
war and killing are wrong, and inexpressibly sad. Our culture right now
is
trying to glorify war. I'd really like my kids to read some of the
books which
helped me understand the reality of what war actually is. I feel like
you are
saying that I can make sure that my kids know my feelings, then let
them explore
where they will. I agree with this: that what they desire to intergrate
into
themselves is much more real than what I impose. I guess when this
issue come
up I feel so intense that it's hard to let this go.
-=-=-=-
What if someone else thought it was important for you to read pro-war
books? I mean, you don't like what's being imposed on you right now,
right? The glorificaton of war?
If you're imposing *your* will, does that make it right? Would you read
what another said you should?
Just because they're important to *you* doesn't mean they are for
everyone!
When they are ready, they will ask your opinion. They *may* choose to
read what you suggest. They may not. Are you OK with that?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
already frequently chosen not to read what I recommend, although they sometimes do. I will have to think about this some more.
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:09:26 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning without books
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@yahoo. com
Thanks for your reply, which made plenty of sense. My kids are aware
that I feel
war and killing are wrong, and inexpressibly sad. Our culture right now
is
trying to glorify war. I'd really like my kids to read some of the
books which
helped me understand the reality of what war actually is. I feel like
you are
saying that I can make sure that my kids know my feelings, then let
them explore
where they will. I agree with this: that what they desire to intergrate
into
themselves is much more real than what I impose. I guess when this
issue come
up I feel so intense that it's hard to let this go.
-=-=-=-
What if someone else thought it was important for you to read pro-war
books? I mean, you don't like what's being imposed on you right now,
right? The glorificaton of war?
If you're imposing *your* will, does that make it right? Would you read
what another said you should?
Just because they're important to *you* doesn't mean they are for
everyone!
When they are ready, they will ask your opinion. They *may* choose to
read what you suggest. They may not. Are you OK with that?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@...
Having said that, I do teach that there are some absolute wrong things
in life. Not many, but some, and
that one is killing
-=-=-=-
But even that is not an absolute.
We can all imagine a scenario in which we *could* kill (or at least use
deadly force) to save ourselves or our children.
-=-=-=-=
And they have already frequently chosen not to read what I recommend,
although they sometimes
do. I will have to think about this some more.
-=-=-=-=
I think one of the hardest things for people with really strong
feelings about certain subjects is the idea that those we
love---especially our children!---will have different views.
A deeply religious person may feel that he's losing his child forever
(eternally even) if the child leaves the church.
It would hurt me if my boys decided not to unschool their kids.
What if your child decided to join the army?
We have to realize that our children have their own lives, their own
ideas and ideals, and their own thoughts and needs. It can be really
hard when their values don't mesh wih ours. But accepting that is
hugely important! Terrifically hard, but really, really important.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
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From: acsp2205@...
Having said that, I do teach that there are some absolute wrong things
in life. Not many, but some, and
that one is killing
-=-=-=-
But even that is not an absolute.
We can all imagine a scenario in which we *could* kill (or at least use
deadly force) to save ourselves or our children.
-=-=-=-=
And they have already frequently chosen not to read what I recommend,
although they sometimes
do. I will have to think about this some more.
-=-=-=-=
I think one of the hardest things for people with really strong
feelings about certain subjects is the idea that those we
love---especially our children!---will have different views.
A deeply religious person may feel that he's losing his child forever
(eternally even) if the child leaves the church.
It would hurt me if my boys decided not to unschool their kids.
What if your child decided to join the army?
We have to realize that our children have their own lives, their own
ideas and ideals, and their own thoughts and needs. It can be really
hard when their values don't mesh wih ours. But accepting that is
hugely important! Terrifically hard, but really, really important.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
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Ren Allen
~~Not many, but some, and
that one is killing. ~~
If killing is an absolute wrong, then it makes nature rather hard to
understand where it's kill or be killed every day.
It makes it hard to know when killing is right to other people....like
when someone wants help dying because they are terminal and don't want
to suffer. Or when a person defends themselves, or their children from
some person that wants to do them harm.
I've found there aren't many absolutes in my world. I want my children
to ponder many angles without the weight of my views and judgement
upon them, thought they do know how I feel about certain topics.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
that one is killing. ~~
If killing is an absolute wrong, then it makes nature rather hard to
understand where it's kill or be killed every day.
It makes it hard to know when killing is right to other people....like
when someone wants help dying because they are terminal and don't want
to suffer. Or when a person defends themselves, or their children from
some person that wants to do them harm.
I've found there aren't many absolutes in my world. I want my children
to ponder many angles without the weight of my views and judgement
upon them, thought they do know how I feel about certain topics.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Cameron Parham
What would happen if one of my kids joined the army, or killed someone, I would grieve, and they would know it because we have that kind of honesty between us. But I would never withdraw my love and support, and I think they know that.
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 5:58:51 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning without books
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@yahoo. com
Having said that, I do teach that there are some absolute wrong things
in life. Not many, but some, and
that one is killing
-=-=-=-
But even that is not an absolute.
We can all imagine a scenario in which we *could* kill (or at least use
deadly force) to save ourselves or our children.
-=-=-=-=
And they have already frequently chosen not to read what I recommend,
although they sometimes
do. I will have to think about this some more.
-=-=-=-=
I think one of the hardest things for people with really strong
feelings about certain subjects is the idea that those we
love---especially our children!--- will have different views.
A deeply religious person may feel that he's losing his child forever
(eternally even) if the child leaves the church.
It would hurt me if my boys decided not to unschool their kids.
What if your child decided to join the army?
We have to realize that our children have their own lives, their own
ideas and ideals, and their own thoughts and needs. It can be really
hard when their values don't mesh wih ours. But accepting that is
hugely important! Terrifically hard, but really, really important.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2007 5:58:51 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Learning without books
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@yahoo. com
Having said that, I do teach that there are some absolute wrong things
in life. Not many, but some, and
that one is killing
-=-=-=-
But even that is not an absolute.
We can all imagine a scenario in which we *could* kill (or at least use
deadly force) to save ourselves or our children.
-=-=-=-=
And they have already frequently chosen not to read what I recommend,
although they sometimes
do. I will have to think about this some more.
-=-=-=-=
I think one of the hardest things for people with really strong
feelings about certain subjects is the idea that those we
love---especially our children!--- will have different views.
A deeply religious person may feel that he's losing his child forever
(eternally even) if the child leaves the church.
It would hurt me if my boys decided not to unschool their kids.
What if your child decided to join the army?
We have to realize that our children have their own lives, their own
ideas and ideals, and their own thoughts and needs. It can be really
hard when their values don't mesh wih ours. But accepting that is
hugely important! Terrifically hard, but really, really important.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandL earnConference. org
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@...
What would happen if one of my kids joined the army, or killed
someone, I would
grieve, and they would know it because we have that kind of honesty
between us.
But I would never withdraw my love and support, and I think they know
that.
-=-=-=-=-
Even with love and support, a parent's disappointment is hard to live
with.
And keep in mind that joining the service does NOT mean the child will
ever have to kill. Nor does it mean he's aggressive or violent.
All the military men and women I know want PEACE (I do know there are
exceptions to that---but not among the *many* folks I know). Just
because they *will* lay down their lives for you doesn't mean they
*want* to!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: acsp2205@...
What would happen if one of my kids joined the army, or killed
someone, I would
grieve, and they would know it because we have that kind of honesty
between us.
But I would never withdraw my love and support, and I think they know
that.
-=-=-=-=-
Even with love and support, a parent's disappointment is hard to live
with.
And keep in mind that joining the service does NOT mean the child will
ever have to kill. Nor does it mean he's aggressive or violent.
All the military men and women I know want PEACE (I do know there are
exceptions to that---but not among the *many* folks I know). Just
because they *will* lay down their lives for you doesn't mean they
*want* to!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.