pamela6000

hello,

I, like another poster, am new to all this! I am very intrigued by
unschooling, have read some books, and it just feels right! The only
issue I am having...besides all the family and friend negative
comments, is regarding reading. I have this hang up about it , I
quess. We are in FLorida and they push and push kids to read in
Kindergarden, which i strontly disagree with. THe only thing is I
find myself also, like the other poster, trying to "teach" my
daughter with phonic aids , videos etc. She likes the videos and
even likes trying to write the words on paper. THe problem is that
other moms of schooled kids, make comments all the time about their
kids in school like "oh it is so cool to see x and y reading
already! oh...they know all their sight words! Hey, I could give you
my daughters sight word lists..so they can AT LEAST learn those at
home!"

Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
learn to read..and specifically those damn sight words that
apparently do not follow the rules!!!! I cannot remember how I
learned to read. I know it was not the method they use now and at a
much later age. Makes sense that they need to be ready to learn
something...but I keep feeling like my DD will be behind (behind
what...I am not sure..I quess all her schooled friends..whose moms
have a habbit of saying in front of me and my dd ..."Jennifer..spell
H E R for me..and they spell it correctly...this is MY hang up.
HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: pamela6000@...

THe problem is that
other moms of schooled kids, make comments all the time about their
kids in school like "oh it is so cool to see x and y reading
already! oh...they know all their sight words! Hey, I could give you
my daughters sight word lists..so they can AT LEAST learn those at
home

-=-=-=--

Quit hanging around folks that make your or your daughter feel "less
than."

OR keep hanging around them, and ten years from now, you can sit back
and tell them how wonderful your relationship with your daughter is
while their kids hate them---and lie and sulk. <g>

-=-=-=-=-

Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
learn to read..and specifically those damn sight words that
apparently do not follow the rules!!!!

-=-=-=-=-=-

Cameron (18) was in school but there he learned that reading sucks. It
took him years to get over that.

Duncan (ten) has never had a lesson, but I've answered all his
questions about letters and words and sounds. He can read "big" words
with no problem; smaller, common words make him pause. <g> We've never
done "readers" (except those Spongebob and Scooby-Doo books). He pulls
Dr Seuss books off his shelf sometimes to look through by himself. I
sstill read to him. We just finished _Revenge of the Shadow King_. I
read, and he followed along. He read paragraphs every now and
then---with FEELING----and with accents! <G> We're starting _The Once
and Future King_ this week (more accents! <G>).

Last week I was in Charleston visiting a friend with a seven year old.
In school. His homework included one of those "readers" that
concentrated on the "ar" sound. Cart, start, arf, part, dart, mart ---
I can't remember all the words---and then they added "swarm"---I don't
know about the accents where you live, but "swarm" has a different
sound around here! ANYWAY... I watched as he struggled with each and
every word. That's never happened here with Duncan. He knows it or not.

Our world is print-rich. Reading is a natural result.

Our world is also dog-rich, bee-rich, cycling-rich, gaming-rich,
music-rich, writing-rich, gardening-rich, traveling-rich, talk-rich,
soon-to-be-chicken-rich.

What do you think the natural results of our children's lives will be?
<bwg>

-=-=-=-=-=-

Makes sense that they need to be ready to learn something...

-=-=-==-

Huh?

When we are ready and when we need it, we will learn it. Not a moment
before.

-=-=-=-

but I keep feeling like my DD will be behind (behind
what...I am not sure..I quess all her schooled friends.

-=-=-=-=

Will you be just as envious when your child is behind on drugs, sex,
smoking, and drinking? <g>

-=-=-=-=-

.whose moms
have a habbit of saying in front of me and my dd ..."Jennifer..spell
H E R for me..and they spell it correctly...this is MY hang up.
HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!

-=-=-=-=-=-

Get over it. <g>

She'll read when she's ready because that's what we do.

If the schools' methods worked, why are there so many illiterate
adults? Why do so many kids hate to read? Why is it such a big deal?

~Kelly




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Christy Mahoney

When those other moms offer their lists, just say "No thank you,
we've got it covered." Or whatever. That's too bad that your
getting so much pressure when your daughter is 5 years old.

My daughters really do read. One is nearly 12 and the other just
turned 7. No phonics teaching, no workbooks, no specifically "learn
to read" games. It really did just happen. They are quite
different in personality, and they learned at different ages, but it
happened. What did I do? With my older dd, I read to her A LOT.
She loved it, and she always wanted to know what everything was.
She started reading when she was 3, and I know that's not common.
With my younger dd, I read her a lot of stuff on video games even
more than books because that's what she liked. She just turned 7
last month and really started reading about 6 months ago. They both
play on the computer a lot. Also my older dd discovered closed
captioning on the TV once when she was about 4 or 5, and we always
have that on because she likes it. That's pretty much it.

You'll find a lot of great stuff about learning to read if you
follow some of the links at the left here. Joyfully Rejoycing and
Sandra Dodd's site are both great with lots of stories. All of the
older unschoolers do know how to read. They learned at lots of
different ages, but they all learned.

As far as sight words, we've had no trouble with words that don't
follow certain rules because we don't teach those rules! Sounds
silly, but it's true. If these are common words, your child will
see them a lot. If she wants to know what a word is, just tell
her. If she asks again, tell her again. Eventually she'll just
know it.

If there comes a time when she feels bad about not knowing how to
read, be confident that she will. Because she will, really.

Hope this helps.
-Christy M.


>
> Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
> learn to read..and specifically those damn sight words that
> apparently do not follow the rules!!!! I cannot remember how I
> learned to read. I know it was not the method they use now and at
a much later age. Makes sense that they need to be ready to learn
> something...but I keep feeling like my DD will be behind (behind
> what...I am not sure..I quess all her schooled friends

Vickisue Gray

Lol....I've started to respond three times and figure you really don't need the details.
I just wanted to tell you that this unschooling stuff really works. My son learns by
leaps and bounds on a daily basis. He reads everything and reads at a high level
just because he has found books contain tons of awesome information.

Recently, while playing a computer game, he learned of General George S. Patton.
That lead to a google search for more info on Patton. Since my son, George, and Patton share a name and a military passion, General Patton is my son's new hero. My son
was thrilled when he learned that Patton was homeschooled, also.

Yesterday, once again while playing another computer game, he decided he wanted to
learn more about the Greek Gods. Needless to say, he researched it and quenched
his thirst.

As for learning sight words and spelling and such....Let me just say that in February, 2006,
my son left his spelling book in GA on purpose. When we were just up there, for fun he
wanted to see if he could spell those words even though he never studied them. So I called out the word lists and surprise, surprise, without ever studying them, he knew them all.






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Debra Rossing

My DS learned to read right around age 5 by reading (others have kids
who learned earlier than that AND later than that - by teenage, there's
no way to tell the difference). At 8 1/2, he reads pretty much anything
at will. It's kind of like taking a white shirt and putting it in a pot
of red dye - it can't help but pick up the dye. Similarly, kids in our
culture are *surrounded* by words - on commercials, road signs, games,
etc as well as books and magazines. Closed captioning (when done well,
not the stuff on live sportscasts) is really cool because they can *see*
the action, *hear* the words, AND *see* the words all at the same time.
When my DS was wanting to read (he said "We need to get Hooked on
Phonics so I can learn to read"), I already knew that he knew many words
on sight (and really, isn't that what 'fluent' reading is, knowing words
on sight - how many adults reading this are sounding out every word, or
even reading every single solitary word - nope, fluent readers read in
'groups' of words, glossing over little words like 'the'). BUT he had
the idea that reading was difficult (thanks to all the phonics
commercials). We spent a total of about 1 hr over 3 nights with the Bob
books and that convinced him that he could read "Hey I'm a reader!" with
face all aglow (and even then, we didn't do them as 'instructed' - we
just picked books from the set and first night I read them all, second
night he read one, third night we did a random half dozen or so together
and that was it). All he really needed was to know that he *was* reading
already and he took off.

Some things we did with him included: reading aloud to him; turning on
closed captioning; playing with letter magnets on the fridge ("Mommy,
what does qrwztymbklf spell?" - time to discuss vowels and how they help
Mommy not sprain her tongue LOL); 'buddy reading' where he was
'responsible' for one or two words in a story (like Stop and Dog in Go,
Dog, Go) and I'd read the rest, pausing for him to fill in his word,
then continuing. That led gradually to alternating words, sentences,
paragraphs, pages as *he* chose (that's big, it wasn't an assignment or
lesson, I'd ask if he wanted to do a word, if so, great, if not, great)
- sometimes he wanted to just listen, sometimes he wanted to read
together, and eventually, sometimes he wanted to read to me (one time, I
wasn't feeling well and headed to bed early. He came in with a favorite
book and said he was going to read to me to help me get to sleep and
feel better. So I just closed my eyes and listened to him read me to
sleep.) Also, as he was wanting to read more himself, we went back to
his old favorite board books for a bit - stories he knew by heart and
loved, stories that are designed for adults to read to kids, not "early
readers", he knew the words by sound and could now sort out which
symbols went with which sounds. DH learned the same way per MIL - he
went off with a favorite book ("Johnny Lion's Book") and proceeded to
match up the symbols (aka 'words') with the sounds he knew so well. Of
course, then MIL called the school DH would be attending in the fall for
K and asked what she should do to assist him now that he was beginning
to read. They told her NOT to LET him read because he'd learn it all
wrong. She ignored them.

Okay, now, my best guess as to *how* DS learned to read (since we
certainly didn't sit him down and teach him, not even sight words.
Closest we came was answering a gazillion "what's that say?" questions).
He'd suck in words like a vacuum - "what's this say? what's that say?
That says Stop!" and listening to us read to him. Then, internally, he'd
break things into pattern blocks or chunks which he'd then apply to new
words he met. Kind of like digesting pasta primavera into carbs,
proteins, vitamins etc and using them to fuel your body. Example: he
'met' the word "water", and had "gathered" the blocks: w, at, er Then he
met the word "weather". Looks similar, apply known blocks, context
doesn't fit, look for other known blocks, ask questions. So, he'd ask
and we'd say "That's weather" and point out the ea and th blocks (based
on hearing his first try) so now he has w, at, er, ea, and th blocks to
apply. And so on. But way less "solid", lots more "fuzzy logic" type
approximations applied on his part to figure things out (again, that's
just my guesstimate of what was happening internally). While his
age-mates in Bible class were hesitantly sounding their way through
things, I was getting comments on how well he read *from public school
teacher friends* who were teaching his Bible classes. When they'd ask
how we taught him to read so well, we'd just smile, shrug and say We
didn't! He learned to read, we didn't 'teach' him (in the common usage
of that word, implying some form of structured plan of tuition applied
to a student rather than springing from the learner).

Deb

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Dec 13, 2006, at 12:01 PM, pamela6000 wrote:

> THe problem is that
> other moms of schooled kids, make comments all the time about their
> kids in school like "oh it is so cool to see x and y reading
> already! oh...they know all their sight words!

But what percentage of moms who have Kindergartners say that? It
undoubtedly seems like all the kids are reading but the ones with
kids who are struggling are keeping shut about it! The ones who speak
up are just so darned relieved that they don't have to worry about
learning to read anymore that they need to shout it out ;-)

> Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
> learn to read

How did your child learn to speak? Think about that. She started with
*nothing*, not even understanding what language is and she basically
pulled an understanding out of her environment.

Compared to that reading is a cinch! She already knows what words are
and that the sounds correspond to concepts. That's the hard part.
Figuring out how the squiggles on paper map to the sounds and
concepts is relatively easy.

Or *will* be easy when her brain is ready to make the connections.
That might be tomorrow. That might be 7 years from now. (But not to
worry. Unschooled kids learn just fine learning in all the other ways
there are to learn. And a new 12 yo reader is shortly reading at age
level and is indistinguishable from one who started 6 years earlier.)

Schools make learning to read difficult because they need the kids to
demonstrate that they can read by a certain age and they need all the
kids to use the same materials. There's little room to take into
account the child's desire, interest or need, all the things that
made learning to speak so effortless, and all the things that make
unschooling possible.

Learning to read in school on the school's schedule is very very hard.

Learning to read when a child is ready and interested happens with as
little effort as learning to speak.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

laura g

just about everything kids do set the stage for learning to read and write.
today my kids have played at the park, drawn pictures, watched a movie about
volancos, helped me make cookies, played a board game and played with
playmobil people for ALONG time. All these things set that stage and if you
look carefully you can see the skills they are learning from each of these
absolutely fun activities. It is all connected.


>From: Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] another newcomer of a 5 yrold and sight
>words!!!!
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>
>On Dec 13, 2006, at 12:01 PM, pamela6000 wrote:
>
> > THe problem is that
> > other moms of schooled kids, make comments all the time about their
> > kids in school like "oh it is so cool to see x and y reading
> > already! oh...they know all their sight words!
>
>But what percentage of moms who have Kindergartners say that? It
>undoubtedly seems like all the kids are reading but the ones with
>kids who are struggling are keeping shut about it! The ones who speak
>up are just so darned relieved that they don't have to worry about
>learning to read anymore that they need to shout it out ;-)
>
> > Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
> > learn to read
>
>How did your child learn to speak? Think about that. She started with
>*nothing*, not even understanding what language is and she basically
>pulled an understanding out of her environment.
>
>Compared to that reading is a cinch! She already knows what words are
>and that the sounds correspond to concepts. That's the hard part.
>Figuring out how the squiggles on paper map to the sounds and
>concepts is relatively easy.
>
>Or *will* be easy when her brain is ready to make the connections.
>That might be tomorrow. That might be 7 years from now. (But not to
>worry. Unschooled kids learn just fine learning in all the other ways
>there are to learn. And a new 12 yo reader is shortly reading at age
>level and is indistinguishable from one who started 6 years earlier.)
>
>Schools make learning to read difficult because they need the kids to
>demonstrate that they can read by a certain age and they need all the
>kids to use the same materials. There's little room to take into
>account the child's desire, interest or need, all the things that
>made learning to speak so effortless, and all the things that make
>unschooling possible.
>
>Learning to read in school on the school's schedule is very very hard.
>
>Learning to read when a child is ready and interested happens with as
>little effort as learning to speak.
>
>Joyce
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Ren Allen

~~Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
> learn to read~~

By having me answer "Mom, what does this say?" and "how do you spell
______?" over and over again.:)

It really was that basic. I answered their questions, I read to them,
I read FOR them without hesitation and I now have three readers. One
learned at a more traditional age of 6 (but not truly fluent until
close to 9), one that was intensely curious about words at 5 and 6 and
became fluent by 7/8, one that didn't seem to care one whit about
reading and asked me to read everything until he was 12 and suddenly
started reading and a 5 y.o. that has very little interest in words or
reading.

They learn if there is an interested and curious adult helping them
with whatever they want to know. It's that simple.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

pamela6000

--- In [email protected], Vickisue Gray
<vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
>Thanks Vicki!!
How old is your son??? THey just "start" reading on their own? It
should not be hard to believe..I quess you hear about people who never
learn to read. How does that happen??
Thanks for your repy!

Shelly

When our middle son was 5 years old he loved to play with flash
cards. He likes to play games and wanted me to
"show him how to read" so I actually made some
flashcards by pasting the pages from this site..

http://www.manatee.k12.fl.us/sites/elementary/palmasola/dolchflash.htm

onto construction paper and cutting them out to make flash cards. Our
son loves to paste and cut too! He would play with them all the time
and ask his brothers to say the words and ask me to flash them at
him.

That was the beginning. He really learned a lot from playing
Runescape on the computer too. Our 9 year old learned to read from
playing Runescape also. Each kid is different.

Well that's how it came about in our home. :-)
Shelly M.

--- In [email protected], "pamela6000"
<pamela6000@...> wrote:
>
> hello,
>
> I, like another poster, am new to all this! I am very intrigued by
> unschooling, have read some books, and it just feels right! The
only
> issue I am having...besides all the family and friend negative
> comments, is regarding reading. I have this hang up about it , I
> quess. We are in FLorida and they push and push kids to read in
> Kindergarden, which i strontly disagree with. THe only thing is I
> find myself also, like the other poster, trying to "teach" my
> daughter with phonic aids , videos etc. She likes the videos and
> even likes trying to write the words on paper. THe problem is that
> other moms of schooled kids, make comments all the time about their
> kids in school like "oh it is so cool to see x and y reading
> already! oh...they know all their sight words! Hey, I could give
you
> my daughters sight word lists..so they can AT LEAST learn those at
> home!"
>
> Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
> learn to read..and specifically those damn sight words that
> apparently do not follow the rules!!!! I cannot remember how I
> learned to read. I know it was not the method they use now and at a
> much later age. Makes sense that they need to be ready to learn
> something...but I keep feeling like my DD will be behind (behind
> what...I am not sure..I quess all her schooled friends..whose moms
> have a habbit of saying in front of me and my
dd ..."Jennifer..spell
> H E R for me..and they spell it correctly...this is MY hang up.
> HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!
>

Vickisue Gray

My son just turned nine and is so unbelievably smart.
My daughter is almost 17 (so hard to believe how fast
time flies) and has more education then I have with a
college degree!

I think it was Ren who said she just answers their questions
and they learn. It really is that simple.

I have met some kids that don't read, and to me it seems,
that they were not exposed to reading. Some of the others in
this group probably know how that happens better then me.

Hang in there.

pamela6000 <pamela6000@...> wrote:
--- In [email protected], Vickisue Gray
<vickisue_gray@...> wrote:
>Thanks Vicki!!
How old is your son??? THey just "start" reading on their own? It
should not be hard to believe..I quess you hear about people who never
learn to read. How does that happen??
Thanks for your repy!





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Dec 14, 2006, at 9:32 PM, pamela6000 wrote:

> I quess you hear about people who never
> learn to read. How does that happen??

Because they have huge baggage associated with being forced to read
when they aren't ready and the humiliation of not being able to do
what "everyone else" can and then the even greater baggage of
embarrassment at not being able to read when they reach an age when
they obviously should be able to. When kids are forced to do
something they can't (aren't developmentally ready to understand)
they often have two responses: they decide they're stupid and just
can't do it or, as self preservation, decide the thing they're being
forced to do is dumb and they don't care about it and so they just
won't try.

Or growing up in an environment where reading isn't done. Kids need
to be exposed to the process and have their questions answered in
order to decode the code.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mara

Sorry for the dumb question, but I really don't know
what sight words are. How are they different from
regular words? I did not grow up in this country - but
I do have a 5 y.o. as well, who so far has no interest
in learning how to read or write, although he
illustrates whole entire story books and when he reads
ME a book it is often more interesting than what it
acctually says.

--- Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:

>
> On Dec 14, 2006, at 9:32 PM, pamela6000 wrote:
>
> > I quess you hear about people who never
> > learn to read. How does that happen??
>
> Because they have huge baggage associated with being
> forced to read
> when they aren't ready and the humiliation of not
> being able to do
> what "everyone else" can and then the even greater
> baggage of
> embarrassment at not being able to read when they
> reach an age when
> they obviously should be able to. When kids are
> forced to do
> something they can't (aren't developmentally ready
> to understand)
> they often have two responses: they decide they're
> stupid and just
> can't do it or, as self preservation, decide the
> thing they're being
> forced to do is dumb and they don't care about it
> and so they just
> won't try.
>
> Or growing up in an environment where reading isn't
> done. Kids need
> to be exposed to the process and have their
> questions answered in
> order to decode the code.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "Shelly" <bmabe4@...> wrote:
>
> When our middle son was 5 years old he loved to play with flash
> cards. He likes to play games and wanted me to
> "show him how to read" so I actually made some
> flashcards by pasting the pages from this site..

We found some homemade flash cards at a yard sale and Mo asked to buy
them. She uses them with some of her computer games - she has a couple
where you type in letters and the computer tries to pronounce them.
Sometimes she likes to type in stlnhlbmex, but other times she
wants "real words". The cards are especially nice if I'm cooking or
sleeping.

Other times Mo likes to arrange them sort of at random - she calls
it "making a poem" - and then take a pic with the digital camera.

---Meredith (Mo 5, Ray 13)

plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], Mara <mamadeluz@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the dumb question, but I really don't know
> what sight words are. How are they different from
> regular words?

Usually it means words with "irregular" spellings that have to be
memorized. They also tend to be the most commonly used words. "Sight
reading" generally means reading without stopping to "sound out"
words.
---Meredith

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: pamela6000@...

THey just "start" reading on their own?

-=-=-=-

Yes, but not "out of the blue"---it's a process. It takes time to see
squiggles become letter which form words which are ideas.

-=--=-=-=-=-

It should not be hard to believe..I quess you hear about people who
never
learn to read. How does that happen??

-=-=-=-

In school. By being pressured before they're ready. By being made fun
of for making mistakes. By being put in the remedial reading groups
because they can't keep up with the others. Because they're not ready.
Then they think they're stupid or lazy or incompetent, so they give up.

This doesn't happen only in schools. Parents can do it at home to their
kids too.

But a world full of print and joyful reading produces readers.

~Kelly
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jen mobley

hi pamela! my name is jen mobley and i've been unschooling now for only two
months and I can't see ever sending my daughter back into public (or
private) school. I used sight words with her but not forcefully. I will say
that she gained a sense of accomplishment when we would read a story and she
knew the words from learning them off the cards. I didn't really teach her
how to read though. One day, we went to Barnes and Noble and she picked up a
box of BOB books (not bob the builder) and just started reading them all by
herself! I was so amazed that I bought them. She's been reading on her own
ever since! A big part of reading is being read to. Don't worry about her
falling behind...most unschoolers are way ahead of their public school peers
because they are given freedom to explore and express themselves in a way
that public school prohibits. You're doing a great job!
>From: "pamela6000" <pamela6000@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [unschoolingbasics] another newcomer of a 5 yrold and sight
>words!!!!
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:01:48 -0000
>
>hello,
>
>I, like another poster, am new to all this! I am very intrigued by
>unschooling, have read some books, and it just feels right! The only
>issue I am having...besides all the family and friend negative
>comments, is regarding reading. I have this hang up about it , I
>quess. We are in FLorida and they push and push kids to read in
>Kindergarden, which i strontly disagree with. THe only thing is I
>find myself also, like the other poster, trying to "teach" my
>daughter with phonic aids , videos etc. She likes the videos and
>even likes trying to write the words on paper. THe problem is that
>other moms of schooled kids, make comments all the time about their
>kids in school like "oh it is so cool to see x and y reading
>already! oh...they know all their sight words! Hey, I could give you
>my daughters sight word lists..so they can AT LEAST learn those at
>home!"
>
>Parents of older unschooled kids out there...how?? did your kids
>learn to read..and specifically those damn sight words that
>apparently do not follow the rules!!!! I cannot remember how I
>learned to read. I know it was not the method they use now and at a
>much later age. Makes sense that they need to be ready to learn
>something...but I keep feeling like my DD will be behind (behind
>what...I am not sure..I quess all her schooled friends..whose moms
>have a habbit of saying in front of me and my dd ..."Jennifer..spell
>H E R for me..and they spell it correctly...this is MY hang up.
>HELP PLEASE!!!!!!!!
>

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