[email protected]

Hi all,
I am seeking some advice on something that happened yesterday and would like the Mindful Parenting approach to how to deal with this situation.

My daughter(new to unschooling, age 14) spent the night at her friend's house sunday night. This friend is attending a private high school in the ninth grade. Her parents are separated and my daughter has always been really fond of her Dad. They were at her Dad's house.
In the morning, at about 9am, my daughter overheard the Dad (who she admires and looks up to) speaking with his daughter about going to the beach. They thought she was sleeping, but she was not. They began to talk about whether to invite my daughter to the beach, when the Dad suddenly started "trashing" her and her foray into homeschooling, saying negative things like "she'll never go to college, she cant even get up in the morning, etc etc etc." Then the daughter chimed in, trying to gain points with the Dad by elevating herself in her Dad's eyes at the expense of my daughter. Needless to say, overhearing this stuff from a parent she always liked and from her best friend to boot, plunged her into a very hurtful state. I came home to find her back to her surly, argumentative self, a self that has largely disappeared since she left school. She was talking about taking the California High School Proficiency exam "to show them." She began to speak in terms of setting goals that would
"prove to everyone she was not an idiot." I tried to speak with her about not framing her goals that way, but she was very upset and hurt so I backed off.
My initial reaction was to call up this Dad and have some words with him, but I knew my daughter would not want that so I didnt. I am sure this stuff is not going to end with him or with any of the other friends she still wants to see. There are no supportive parents and they have made it clear to my daughter what their opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any advice/sugesstions/feedback appreciated.
Kathryn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vickisue Gray

Wow. Your poor daughter. She's old enough to know not all people are nice. Even if she was still in formal school, people would still pass these judgements.

My daughter's best friend at that age had a mother who was a public school teacher in the high school the girls attended. My daughter was in the Pre-IB program. Her daughter in general classes. The mother constantly told her daughter how much smarter her daughter was as her grades were higher. Needless to say, they are no longer friends.

Even in formal school, all children will have different goals and dreams and learning patterns. Hopefully your daughter will decide what she wants to be and avoid negative people who try and stop her.

airokat@... wrote:
Hi all,
I am seeking some advice on something that happened yesterday and would like the Mindful Parenting approach to how to deal with this situation.

My daughter(new to unschooling, age 14) spent the night at her friend's house sunday night. This friend is attending a private high school in the ninth grade. Her parents are separated and my daughter has always been really fond of her Dad. They were at her Dad's house.
In the morning, at about 9am, my daughter overheard the Dad (who she admires and looks up to) speaking with his daughter about going to the beach. They thought she was sleeping, but she was not. They began to talk about whether to invite my daughter to the beach, when the Dad suddenly started "trashing" her and her foray into homeschooling, saying negative things like "she'll never go to college, she cant even get up in the morning, etc etc etc." Then the daughter chimed in, trying to gain points with the Dad by elevating herself in her Dad's eyes at the expense of my daughter. Needless to say, overhearing this stuff from a parent she always liked and from her best friend to boot, plunged her into a very hurtful state. I came home to find her back to her surly, argumentative self, a self that has largely disappeared since she left school. She was talking about taking the California High School Proficiency exam "to show them." She began to speak in terms of setting goals
that would
"prove to everyone she was not an idiot." I tried to speak with her about not framing her goals that way, but she was very upset and hurt so I backed off.
My initial reaction was to call up this Dad and have some words with him, but I knew my daughter would not want that so I didnt. I am sure this stuff is not going to end with him or with any of the other friends she still wants to see. There are no supportive parents and they have made it clear to my daughter what their opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any advice/sugesstions/feedback appreciated.
Kathryn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schafer Vanessa

Kathryn,

Wow, your poor daughter. It is hard to hear things
like that, especially since this dad was someone she
liked, not to mention her friend too.

First of all, she shouldn't worry about what other
people think, she should just be herself. (I know that
is easier said, than done.) Why should she have to
prove anything to anyone? If you ask me, in my
opinion, they are the ones that are idiots, not your
daughter. I can definately understand how hurt she
is. I'm sure it feels like one step forward, and
about 10 steps backward. It's also hard, when you
need support, and don't have any.

I think she needs some time to cool down first, and
realize how wrong her friend and that friends dad
really are. Who are they to judge her? In time, she
will see that she doesn't need to do anything to prove
how smart she is. I always used to worry about my
daughter in school, because I find that girls are more
vicisous than boys can be. Hopefully your daughter
can find some new friends, that can accept her,
whether she homeschools or not. I have read articles,
and people have told me that homeschooled children are
smarter than public schooled children/private
schooled, because they can relax, and learn at a
better rate.

I think it was smart to not act on impulse, and call
that dad. It probably wouldn't have made a
difference, and might have hurt your daughter more.
(it's hard when you go into protective mode-I've been
there several times). From the sounds of it he's not
even worth wasting your breath on. Go have some fun
with your daughter-sometimes kids need a pick-me-up,
not matter how old they are.

-----Vanessa

--- airokat@... wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am seeking some advice on something that happened
> yesterday and would like the Mindful Parenting
> approach to how to deal with this situation.
>
> My daughter(new to unschooling, age 14) spent the
> night at her friend's house sunday night. This
> friend is attending a private high school in the
> ninth grade. Her parents are separated and my
> daughter has always been really fond of her Dad.
> They were at her Dad's house.
> In the morning, at about 9am, my daughter overheard
> the Dad (who she admires and looks up to) speaking
> with his daughter about going to the beach. They
> thought she was sleeping, but she was not. They
> began to talk about whether to invite my daughter to
> the beach, when the Dad suddenly started "trashing"
> her and her foray into homeschooling, saying
> negative things like "she'll never go to college,
> she cant even get up in the morning, etc etc etc."
> Then the daughter chimed in, trying to gain points
> with the Dad by elevating herself in her Dad's eyes
> at the expense of my daughter. Needless to say,
> overhearing this stuff from a parent she always
> liked and from her best friend to boot, plunged her
> into a very hurtful state. I came home to find her
> back to her surly, argumentative self, a self that
> has largely disappeared since she left school. She
> was talking about taking the California High School
> Proficiency exam "to show them." She began to speak
> in terms of setting goals that would
> "prove to everyone she was not an idiot." I tried to
> speak with her about not framing her goals that way,
> but she was very upset and hurt so I backed off.
> My initial reaction was to call up this Dad and have
> some words with him, but I knew my daughter would
> not want that so I didnt. I am sure this stuff is
> not going to end with him or with any of the other
> friends she still wants to see. There are no
> supportive parents and they have made it clear to my
> daughter what their opinions are. I feel they are
> out of line. Any advice/sugesstions/feedback
> appreciated.
> Kathryn
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Donna Brown

I know I am new and am supposed to wait to chime in but I can't hold back on this topic! Vickisue is right. It may be a good idea to talk with your daughter about some of these issues these won't be the last time she will face them. Let her know if you are dealing with some similar judgements. Hey, you are in it as a fam! My son is 16 and had a friend over the other day. I overheard a bit of conversation that started to sound like it was a bit judgemental instead it turned into a OMG guess what I can't remember... They both ended up laughing at their shortcomings. Public or home we have a bit of a competitive streak that has to be tempered with compassion and humor.

Vickisue Gray <vickisue_gray@...> wrote: Wow. Your poor daughter. She's old enough to know not all people are nice. Even if she was still in formal school, people would still pass these judgements.

My daughter's best friend at that age had a mother who was a public school teacher in the high school the girls attended. My daughter was in the Pre-IB program. Her daughter in general classes. The mother constantly told her daughter how much smarter her daughter was as her grades were higher. Needless to say, they are no longer friends.

Even in formal school, all children will have different goals and dreams and learning patterns. Hopefully your daughter will decide what she wants to be and avoid negative people who try and stop her.

airokat@... wrote:
Hi all,
I am seeking some advice on something that happened yesterday and would like the Mindful Parenting approach to how to deal with this situation.

My daughter(new to unschooling, age 14) spent the night at her friend's house sunday night. This friend is attending a private high school in the ninth grade. Her parents are separated and my daughter has always been really fond of her Dad. They were at her Dad's house.
In the morning, at about 9am, my daughter overheard the Dad (who she admires and looks up to) speaking with his daughter about going to the beach. They thought she was sleeping, but she was not. They began to talk about whether to invite my daughter to the beach, when the Dad suddenly started "trashing" her and her foray into homeschooling, saying negative things like "she'll never go to college, she cant even get up in the morning, etc etc etc." Then the daughter chimed in, trying to gain points with the Dad by elevating herself in her Dad's eyes at the expense of my daughter. Needless to say, overhearing this stuff from a parent she always liked and from her best friend to boot, plunged her into a very hurtful state. I came home to find her back to her surly, argumentative self, a self that has largely disappeared since she left school. She was talking about taking the California High School Proficiency exam "to show them." She began to speak in terms of setting goals
that would
"prove to everyone she was not an idiot." I tried to speak with her about not framing her goals that way, but she was very upset and hurt so I backed off.
My initial reaction was to call up this Dad and have some words with him, but I knew my daughter would not want that so I didnt. I am sure this stuff is not going to end with him or with any of the other friends she still wants to see. There are no supportive parents and they have made it clear to my daughter what their opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any advice/sugesstions/feedback appreciated.
Kathryn

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~~Hopefully your daughter will decide what she wants to be and
avoid negative people who try and stop her.~~

Find some unschoolers to hang out with!!! And soon.
In the meantime, that was an amazingly hurtful thing to have happen.
Maybe you could talk to her about how it's more of a reflection on
their own beliefs and issues than ANYTHING about her. I would try
encourage her to not prove anything to them...it won't change their
minds anyway. A life well lived is the best "proof". Give her some
time to process it all and just try to listen and empathize. She'll
probably work it through and mostly needs a sympathetic, loving family
member to understand how bad it sucks.

Then help her build a community of unschoolers that will not judge her
for anything related to school. I can't stress enough, just how
valuable our unschooling community is for us and how much it has
enriched our lives!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/10/2006 11:34:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
airokat@... writes:

knew my daughter would not want that so I didnt. I am sure this stuff is not
going to end with him or with any of the other friends she still wants to
see. There are no supportive parents and they have made it clear to my daughter
what their opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any
advice/sugesstions/knew my daughter



What a difficult situation for your daughter. I'm sorry she was subjected
to it. Unfortunately, his opinion is shared by many people who do not
understand unschooling. My 17 year old daughter wanted me to share her thoughts
with you as she is aware that many people don't always "get" her unschooling
lifestyle. At 14, she was often hurt by their opinions. At 17, I see her
overflowing with enthusiasm and confidence about her life and the choices she has
made.

He said those things out of ignorance. Your daughter is probably the only
child he knows that unschools and he has no frame of reference to understand
it. Just the fact that his daughter is in a private school points to his
strong beliefs in the traditional educational system.

It might be best to just be very supportive of her strong and understandably
hurt feelings for a few days. Give her some time before trying to put some
perspective to it. Some things you might discuss with her when she is ready
might be his uninformed opinions due to lack of knowledge and exposure to
other unschooling teens. She might not be comfortable discussing this with him,
but perhaps he would be open to reading a bit about unschooling. A great
book that has been recently updated is Grace Llewellyn's "Real Lives: Eleven
Teenagers Who Don't Go to School Tell Their Own Stories". It now includes
these young adults eleven years later and their impressions of their
homeschooling lives. Probably not worth the recommendation, however, if he only
equates success as acceptance and graduation from an elite university.

My daughter's advice about taking a proficiency exam to prove something is
simply "Don't do it" for someone else. She may not have been out of school
long enough to have the confidence to believe all that she is capable of yet.
All that she would be doing is giving credence to his "incorrect" opinions.
As time goes on, that confidence will come as she invests her energies in the
things she loves.

Some quick thoughts.....hope they are helpful. Many hugs to your daughter.

Gail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

I am sorry for your daughter. I don't have any words of wisdom but maybe she needs to feel empowered. Would she read any studies about how homeschooled kids do much better in College than public school kids? There are tons of studies showing that around in homeschooling sites.
Alex






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vickisue Gray

Out of the mouths of babes... (my unschooling son is engrossed in Calvin Hobbes today, as I was reading emails, he was cracking up and decided to share. This is what he read.

From Calvin and Hobbes....Calvin is writing
A Million Things That Bug Me
1. Dried-out catsup on the bottle rim.
2. Toast crumbs in the butter.
3. Mushy bananas.
4. Worms on the sidewalk.
5. Skin on pudding.
6. Making a hand gesture for quotation marks.
7. Raisins.

Then Hobbes says,"How about 'Excessively negative people'?"
Calvin replies,"Yeah, that's a good one.
...HEY!"

Made me smile!






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Leifur Reid

Kathryn I think that it is important for your daughter to understand
that his words were not about her but about homeschooling, of which he
obviously has a biased and uninformed opinion. I'm SO sorry she had
to hear such negative words and have those words hurt her self esteem.
She doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. She needs to live her
life joyfully and expectantly. There are always going to be bozos in
the world who are going to have opinions about any society of people.
I've heard my own uneducated "trailer trash" aunt and uncle (they're
my family I can label them how I want LOL!) tear into their older
brother and my mom because they are educated professionals. "Oh they
are so snobby because they think they are special going to college and
all." And (as you have seen) I have my own opinions about them. They
hate their lives, they always think that everyone is out to get them.
It's the police's fault that he was caught drunk driving. The judge's
fault that they had to install a breath analyzer in their car at their
expense. Someone else's fault (perhaps the president this week or
maybe even God) that they have no money and no ambitions and are in
dead in jobs that bring them no joy.

I hope your daughter doesn't feel she has to do something to prove
herself because then she is no better than my relatives.

Michelle

lpodietz

--- In [email protected], airokat@... wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I am seeking some advice on something that happened yesterday and
would like the Mindful Parenting approach to how to deal with this
situation.
>
> My daughter(new to unschooling, age 14) spent the night at her
friend's house sunday night. This friend is attending a private high
school in the ninth grade. Her parents are separated and my daughter
has always been really fond of her Dad. They were at her Dad's
house.
> In the morning, at about 9am, my daughter overheard the Dad (who
she admires and looks up to) speaking with his daughter about going
to the beach. They thought she was sleeping, but she was not. They
began to talk about whether to invite my daughter to the beach, when
the Dad suddenly started "trashing" her and her foray into
homeschooling, saying negative things like "she'll never go to
college, she cant even get up in the morning, etc etc etc." Then the
daughter chimed in, trying to gain points with the Dad by elevating
herself in her Dad's eyes at the expense of my daughter. Needless to
say, overhearing this stuff from a parent she always liked and from
her best friend to boot, plunged her into a very hurtful state. I
came home to find her back to her surly, argumentative self, a self
that has largely disappeared since she left school. She was talking
about taking the California High School Proficiency exam "to show
them." She began to speak in terms of setting goals that would
> "prove to everyone she was not an idiot." I tried to speak with
her about not framing her goals that way, but she was very upset and
hurt so I backed off.
> My initial reaction was to call up this Dad and have some words
with him, but I knew my daughter would not want that so I didnt. I
am sure this stuff is not going to end with him or with any of the
other friends she still wants to see. There are no supportive
parents and they have made it clear to my daughter what their
opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any
advice/sugesstions/feedback appreciated.
> Kathryn


Hi Kathryn

Ugh, my heart goes out to you and your daughter. I am no expert by
any stretch... but for whatever it's worth, I did have some
questions after hearing your story. While it's hard to comment
specifically not knowing the cast of characters involved, or their
personalities and their relationships to one another, my first
thought was --- are you on friendly, chatty terms with the father of
your friend? If so, has the question of homeschooling ever come up
with him before this incident? Or has your daughter ever talked
about it with this friend (or other friends)? I'm just wondering if
you and perhaps even your daughter could do more to educate the
people in your lives... I don't mean in any way to sound like this
was your fault, I'm just asking because it seemed odd to me that
your daughter's best friend would not know how great this has been
for her... (Although come to think of it, my son doesn't discuss it
with his friends.... but he's a BOY, they usually just grunt at each
other...ha ha), or that the friend's father wouldn't notice a
positive change in her, since it sounds like they've gone to school
together in the past. It just got me wondering...
In general do you feel that you have been open about homeschooling
with the people around you, or is there some reason why you don't
feel comfortable sharing it with people (afraid you'll be judged,
not being convinced yourself, which doesn't seem to be the case,
afraid you can't state your "case" well... etc, etc?) Maybe I just
live in a liberal community, but I have found that the more I
talk openly about how homeschooling (or unschooling if I feel
particularly brave)
has transformed my son, and how completely delighted I am that we
decided to do this... it usually at the very least shuts them up (as
in the case of my father) and sometimes leads to offers of support
and encouragement. I even went through an hour of intense
inquisition from the parents of one of Aaron's best friends ---
lovely people but TOTALLY different values (their son is only
allowed one hour a day on the computer, his time and his entire life
are strictly orchestrated by the parents, and if he steps out of
line... watch out! Lots of pressure to be perfect in school...etc.
There was a time when I aspired to be more like them...), and
eventually won their respect and "blessing" ("Well, you must be
doing something right, because Aaron is doing great!").

Another way to look at it is, these are people who love and care
about your daughter, and are sincerely worried that you and she have
gone "off the deep end" in some way perhaps... So even more reason
to reassure and educate them, to let them know that you are quite
sure you have chosen the best path for your daughter, and that she
is doing better than ever. Perhaps they feel threatened... that
this path you have chosen somehow invalidates their more traditional
choice... so it doesn't hurt to let them know that this is a
personal choice that works for your daughter, and to avoid getting
preachy about unschooling (which it doesn't sound like you are at
all).

Well, I can see that I've rambled way too long here--- I am totally
new to this, and feel a bit presumptuous chiming in, but you and I
have similar issues, so ... just thought I'd "think out loud" to
you. Please take whatever applies and disregard what doesn't...

Linda

PS: And there's always the possibility that our friends are talking
about us behind our backs too... we just haven't had the misfortune
of overhearing! In any case, I'm sure you know in your heart what's
best for you and your daughter-- how brave you guys are to go
against the tide... That's something you can say to your daughter---
to reinforce what an independent and courageous thinker she is,
rather than letting her buy into the idea that she has somehow
failed and therefore needs to prove something.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: airokat@...

There are no supportive parents and they have made it clear to my
daughter what
their opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any
advice/sugesstions/feedback
appreciated.

-=-=-=-=-

Been there.

Cameron had just finished sixth grade when we took him out. He caught
a LOT of flack from his friends and their parents.

Part of it was that he was able to do things they couldn't---and at
the time, it wasn't the cool stuff he's doing now. It was sleeping in
and playing on the computer and watching TV all day.

Part of it was that he'd left a private college prep school. They all
KNEW he wouldn't know ANYTHING or EVER get into college. His former
classmates would IM him, saying that he would be NOTHING. He'd call me
in and ask me to write to them and assure them that he wouldn't. HE
believed it TOO! It was really heart-breaking.

There wasn't much I could do but assure him that he'd be fine. Over
and over.

The parents too. Carly's mom asked good questions but later told Carly
that I was "flighty." <bwg> She was funny about having Carly date Cam
because she knew that he would amount to nothing.

Oddly.... <g> ....she htinks the WORLD of Cameron---he's the sweetest,
kindest, smartest,... <g> she goes on and on and on. <G> She's very
supportive of him. She *still* thinks school is necessary and it was
merely a fluke that Cam turned out so well. <g>

Cam's friends' parents were horrible---telling their kids how crazy
*I* was and how messed up Cam would be. One of them especially---Noah's
dad, moved to Charleston and had to make a decision about what to do
with Noah and his last year of high school. Final decision was to have
him live with his mom that last year. BUT! <g> He said he wished he'd
UNschooled Noah before so that he wouldn't have had to go to his senior
year here. Now it was "just too late." Bummer. But he'd actually SEEN
the difference between Cam's learning life and Noah's.

The in-laws were also a pain in the butt. With them, I simply waved my
hand dismissively and said, "Proof's in the puddin', and I'm a patient
cook." Five years later, I'm a genius! <g> Cameron is the only
grandchild over fifteen that hasn't had (or been a part of) an
abortion, hasn't been arrested, hasn't been in re-hab, hasn't been on
probation, hasn't gotten a tattoo (BIG issue with the in-laws), and
hasn't been fired from a job. Not only that, but my
"over-fifteen-year-old" isn''t surly or mean or inconsiderate or
impolite or afraid of adults---in fact he's just the opposite! I'm
looking GOOOOOD! <BWG> Well, I'm still seen as weird and
unconventional, but my kids aren't screwed up. I must be doing
something right, huh? Anyway---they don't question it constantly or
just KNOW I'm ruining my boys.


I'd certainly reassure your daughter that NOW---as a
freshman---*everything* hangs on the grades and what all you do in
extracurricular junk. They really *know* that these years in school are
SOOO important. They place very high expectations now. High school is
very exciting---it's not middle school any more, and it's *REAL*!

BUT in less than two years, it's all crap. They hate their classes.
They hate their classmates. All teachers are idiots. They're tired and
hungry, and have no time for anything *THEY* deem important. School
takes too much time. They lose passion and freedom and joy.

You can tell this all you want. She won't believe it. But as the time
goes, she WILL see it. It'll be gradual and a real downer to see her
friends so miserable. But eventually she'll see how great she has it.
So will her friends. <g> Things'll change.


If she would like to talk with Cameron, he'd be happy to correspond
via e-mail---or she can call him with any questions. He knows NOW how
wonderful these last six years have been even though it didn't look so
good when he started. He had a hard time making the adjustment. But he
can really talk about he benefits now that he can look back. Let me
know whether she's interested.

I know how hard it is to convince her. You can try, but only time will
make it clear to her (and her friends!).

Good luck!

~Kelly









________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Vickisue Gray

Wow! Kelly, I'm gonna frame this!

Vicki (Mom to 16, 14 & 8 yo's)


----- Original Message ----
From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 1:21:06 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Need advice


-----Original Message-----
From: airokat@comcast. net

There are no supportive parents and they have made it clear to my
daughter what
their opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any
advice/sugesstions/ feedback
appreciated.

-=-=-=-=-

Been there.

Cameron had just finished sixth grade when we took him out. He caught
a LOT of flack from his friends and their parents.

Part of it was that he was able to do things they couldn't---and at
the time, it wasn't the cool stuff he's doing now. It was sleeping in
and playing on the computer and watching TV all day.

Part of it was that he'd left a private college prep school. They all
KNEW he wouldn't know ANYTHING or EVER get into college. His former
classmates would IM him, saying that he would be NOTHING. He'd call me
in and ask me to write to them and assure them that he wouldn't. HE
believed it TOO! It was really heart-breaking.

There wasn't much I could do but assure him that he'd be fine. Over
and over.

The parents too. Carly's mom asked good questions but later told Carly
that I was "flighty." <bwg> She was funny about having Carly date Cam
because she knew that he would amount to nothing.

Oddly.... <g> ....she htinks the WORLD of Cameron---he' s the sweetest,
kindest, smartest,... <g> she goes on and on and on. <G> She's very
supportive of him. She *still* thinks school is necessary and it was
merely a fluke that Cam turned out so well. <g>

Cam's friends' parents were horrible---telling their kids how crazy
*I* was and how messed up Cam would be. One of them especially-- -Noah's
dad, moved to Charleston and had to make a decision about what to do
with Noah and his last year of high school. Final decision was to have
him live with his mom that last year. BUT! <g> He said he wished he'd
UNschooled Noah before so that he wouldn't have had to go to his senior
year here. Now it was "just too late." Bummer. But he'd actually SEEN
the difference between Cam's learning life and Noah's.

The in-laws were also a pain in the butt. With them, I simply waved my
hand dismissively and said, "Proof's in the puddin', and I'm a patient
cook." Five years later, I'm a genius! <g> Cameron is the only
grandchild over fifteen that hasn't had (or been a part of) an
abortion, hasn't been arrested, hasn't been in re-hab, hasn't been on
probation, hasn't gotten a tattoo (BIG issue with the in-laws), and
hasn't been fired from a job. Not only that, but my
"over-fifteen- year-old" isn''t surly or mean or inconsiderate or
impolite or afraid of adults---in fact he's just the opposite! I'm
looking GOOOOOD! <BWG> Well, I'm still seen as weird and
unconventional, but my kids aren't screwed up. I must be doing
something right, huh? Anyway---they don't question it constantly or
just KNOW I'm ruining my boys.

I'd certainly reassure your daughter that NOW---as a
freshman---* everything* hangs on the grades and what all you do in
extracurricular junk. They really *know* that these years in school are
SOOO important. They place very high expectations now. High school is
very exciting---it' s not middle school any more, and it's *REAL*!

BUT in less than two years, it's all crap. They hate their classes.
They hate their classmates. All teachers are idiots. They're tired and
hungry, and have no time for anything *THEY* deem important. School
takes too much time. They lose passion and freedom and joy.

You can tell this all you want. She won't believe it. But as the time
goes, she WILL see it. It'll be gradual and a real downer to see her
friends so miserable. But eventually she'll see how great she has it.
So will her friends. <g> Things'll change.

If she would like to talk with Cameron, he'd be happy to correspond
via e-mail---or she can call him with any questions. He knows NOW how
wonderful these last six years have been even though it didn't look so
good when he started. He had a hard time making the adjustment. But he
can really talk about he benefits now that he can look back. Let me
know whether she's interested.

I know how hard it is to convince her. You can try, but only time will
make it clear to her (and her friends!).

Good luck!

~Kelly

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

JULIE WOOD-HOLMLUND

<< The in-laws were also a pain in the butt. With them, I simply waved my
hand dismissively and said, "Proof's in the puddin', and I'm a patient
cook." Five years later, I'm a genius! <g> ... Well, I'm still seen as weird and
unconventional, but my kids aren't screwed up. I must be doing
something right, huh? Anyway---they don't question it constantly or
just KNOW I'm ruining my boys. >>

Thank you so much for sharing your story! :) Jake's only 14 months old now, so it'll be awhile before we have to deal with all this, but it's definitely in our future. My family is Mormon and Jake was the 25th grandchild! He'll be the only one not going to public school. My family already thinks of me as the oddball (the only agnostic, non-believer out of 8 kids, waited until late 30's to procreate, the list is long... ;), so I'm ready for whatever they can dish out (which is always done gently fortunately).

But I do want to help prepare Jake to deal with the inevitable questions, and perhaps teasing, from his cousins or other kids and adults who don't understand our lifestyle (unschooling already in progress ;).

Any advice on how you help "arm" your kids verbally so they can respond confidently when encountering the "uneducated" traditionalist of the world?

Thanks,

Julie Wood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], JULIE WOOD-HOLMLUND
<woodswords@...> wrote:
>
>
> Any advice on how you help "arm" your kids verbally so they can
>respond confidently when encountering the "uneducated"
>traditionalist >of the world?
>
DS, 8 yrs old, never been schooled, just says "we homeschool" and
drops it - as far as he's concerned that answers all questions
regarding school, grade, subjects, etc. since they are just not part
of his life at all. He thinks unschooling is the way to go - kids
who don't "tell" their parents to homeschool them are silly, in his
opinion, because they have so little time left for fun stuff. If
someone pushes him, he just refers them to either me or DH to
explain in further detail. To him, school is a far remove and he
really doesn't quite get how to 'translate' things - it's never been
part of his life. If you ask him "what do you like to do?" you'll
get a great long discussion (most likely of Lego Star Wars and Dr
Who and Line Rider currently). BUT if you ask him about his favorite
subject, he'll puzzle and puzzle and say I don't know - his life
isn't about subjects. And one person asked that, then when I said We
don't divide life into subjects, revised it to what do you like to
do? but he had already caught the undercurrent of 'subject' in the
revised question and still couldn't answer. *Our* confidence in what
we're doing is the best way to arm DS.

One thing we've always done that is really helpful is keep a steady
stream of "stuff we're doing" going out to the extended family - "we
just spent a great day at the Museum of Natural History, I'll be
emailing pictures as soon as we download them from the camera"
or "we had a great day canoeing - we saw a great blue heron, and a
pair of swans, and..." or "we've discovered this really cool game
called Line Rider..." - it provides fodder for folks to interact
with DS rather than falling back on the 'typical' questions one uses
to start a discussion with schooled kids.

--Deb

Manisha Kher

> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "kbcdlovejo@..." <kbcdlovejo@...>

Not only that, but my
> "over-fifteen- year-old" isn''t surly or mean or
> inconsiderate or
> impolite or afraid of adults---in fact he's just the
> opposite! I'm
> looking GOOOOOD! <BWG> Well, I'm still seen as weird
> and
> unconventional, but my kids aren't screwed up. I
> must be doing
> something right, huh?
Nyaah! You just lucked out! <BG>

Seriously though, when dh was talking with some folks
about unschooling what he said got dismissed with -
"But your kids are so motivated, my kids would just
watch TV all day..." I think unschooling goes so
against conventional wisdom that people don't want to
believe it even after they see it.

Manisha


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Lesa

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Lesa

--------------------------------------------------


Seriously though, when dh was talking with some folks
about unschooling what he said got dismissed with -
"But your kids are so motivated, my kids would just
watch TV all day..." I think unschooling goes so
against conventional wisdom that people don't want to
believe it even after they see it.

Manisha

__________________________________________________
.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

JULIE WOOD-HOLMLUND

<< ..." or "we've discovered this really cool game
called Line Rider..." - it provides fodder for folks to interact
with DS rather than falling back on the 'typical' questions one uses
to start a discussion with schooled kids. >>

Thanks for this idea, Deb! So simple. :)

Julie Wood


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hello all,
I want to formally thank everyone who replied to my post regarding my daughter overhearing her friend's Dad making negative remarks about her homeschooling. I would have responded formally to everyone but we are moving and I have been temporarily disconnected from the internet, aside from sneaking peaks at work, which I am doing now!
Fortunately my daughter has always had a thick skin and definately a "different drummer" kind of mentality. The very next day she asked if she could invite the friend to go with us up to the mountains. I said: "I thought you were angry with her for not sticking up for you." And she said: "Well, I thought about it and I cant really expect them to know anything about how homeschooling or unschooling works. I didnt know myself until you explained it to me. I really dont care what they think anymore." So she solved it on her own.
As an aside....I had enrolled her in an online writing course because I thought it would help her pass the CHSPE, which is her goal for the year, but after I saw what a schoolish slog it was I got my money back. Maybe she will even change her mind about taking the CHSPE. She's still deschooling (as am I). She made some remark about the fact that she's reading too much stuff "thats below my grade level." I wish I could get her to interact more with unschoolers, but its hard to meet them. She is still mostly focused on keeping in contact with her schooled friends.
Thanks again,
Kathryn

-------------- Original message --------------
From: kbcdlovejo@...

-----Original Message-----
From: airokat@...

There are no supportive parents and they have made it clear to my
daughter what
their opinions are. I feel they are out of line. Any
advice/sugesstions/feedback
appreciated.

-=-=-=-=-

Been there.

Cameron had just finished sixth grade when we took him out. He caught
a LOT of flack from his friends and their parents.

Part of it was that he was able to do things they couldn't---and at
the time, it wasn't the cool stuff he's doing now. It was sleeping in
and playing on the computer and watching TV all day.

Part of it was that he'd left a private college prep school. They all
KNEW he wouldn't know ANYTHING or EVER get into college. His former
classmates would IM him, saying that he would be NOTHING. He'd call me
in and ask me to write to them and assure them that he wouldn't. HE
believed it TOO! It was really heart-breaking.

There wasn't much I could do but assure him that he'd be fine. Over
and over.

The parents too. Carly's mom asked good questions but later told Carly
that I was "flighty." <bwg> She was funny about having Carly date Cam
because she knew that he would amount to nothing.

Oddly.... <g> ....she htinks the WORLD of Cameron---he's the sweetest,
kindest, smartest,... <g> she goes on and on and on. <G> She's very
supportive of him. She *still* thinks school is necessary and it was
merely a fluke that Cam turned out so well. <g>

Cam's friends' parents were horrible---telling their kids how crazy
*I* was and how messed up Cam would be. One of them especially---Noah's
dad, moved to Charleston and had to make a decision about what to do
with Noah and his last year of high school. Final decision was to have
him live with his mom that last year. BUT! <g> He said he wished he'd
UNschooled Noah before so that he wouldn't have had to go to his senior
year here. Now it was "just too late." Bummer. But he'd actually SEEN
the difference between Cam's learning life and Noah's.

The in-laws were also a pain in the butt. With them, I simply waved my
hand dismissively and said, "Proof's in the puddin', and I'm a patient
cook." Five years later, I'm a genius! <g> Cameron is the only
grandchild over fifteen that hasn't had (or been a part of) an
abortion, hasn't been arrested, hasn't been in re-hab, hasn't been on
probation, hasn't gotten a tattoo (BIG issue with the in-laws), and
hasn't been fired from a job. Not only that, but my
"over-fifteen-year-old" isn''t surly or mean or inconsiderate or
impolite or afraid of adults---in fact he's just the opposite! I'm
looking GOOOOOD! <BWG> Well, I'm still seen as weird and
unconventional, but my kids aren't screwed up. I must be doing
something right, huh? Anyway---they don't question it constantly or
just KNOW I'm ruining my boys.

I'd certainly reassure your daughter that NOW---as a
freshman---*everything* hangs on the grades and what all you do in
extracurricular junk. They really *know* that these years in school are
SOOO important. They place very high expectations now. High school is
very exciting---it's not middle school any more, and it's *REAL*!

BUT in less than two years, it's all crap. They hate their classes.
They hate their classmates. All teachers are idiots. They're tired and
hungry, and have no time for anything *THEY* deem important. School
takes too much time. They lose passion and freedom and joy.

You can tell this all you want. She won't believe it. But as the time
goes, she WILL see it. It'll be gradual and a real downer to see her
friends so miserable. But eventually she'll see how great she has it.
So will her friends. <g> Things'll change.

If she would like to talk with Cameron, he'd be happy to correspond
via e-mail---or she can call him with any questions. He knows NOW how
wonderful these last six years have been even though it didn't look so
good when he started. He had a hard time making the adjustment. But he
can really talk about he benefits now that he can look back. Let me
know whether she's interested.

I know how hard it is to convince her. You can try, but only time will
make it clear to her (and her friends!).

Good luck!

~Kelly

__________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle Leifur Reid

On 10/14/06, airokat@... <airokat@...> wrote:
She made some remark about the fact that she's reading too much stuff
"thats below my grade level."

Tell your daughter that you know of a 41 yo woman who reads "below her
grade level" quite often! I'm 41 and "should" be reading on a Masters
degree reading level :-) I LOVE Harry Potter, Christopher Paolini's
Eragon series, manga, Pendragon books, and I read Little Women by
Louisa May Alcott every year (it's my favorite book of all time). I
adore "teen and young adult literature" and believe that there are so
many gifted writers in the genre.

Michelle - who just finished "The End" by Lemony Snicket

[email protected]

Thanks,
I did tell her I read below my grade level all the time. I also love the teen genre books! I just read one this morning....it was reading level grade 5! And Lemony Snicket is a genious. Did you notice how the characters in the "Unfortunate Events" series are kind of unschoolers? Except when they end up at that horrible academy. "The Austere Academy," that one was hilarious.
Kathryn

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Michelle Leifur Reid" <pamperedmichelle@...>
On 10/14/06, airokat@... <airokat@...> wrote:
She made some remark about the fact that she's reading too much stuff
"thats below my grade level."

Tell your daughter that you know of a 41 yo woman who reads "below her
grade level" quite often! I'm 41 and "should" be reading on a Masters
degree reading level :-) I LOVE Harry Potter, Christopher Paolini's
Eragon series, manga, Pendragon books, and I read Little Women by
Louisa May Alcott every year (it's my favorite book of all time). I
adore "teen and young adult literature" and believe that there are so
many gifted writers in the genre.

Michelle - who just finished "The End" by Lemony Snicket



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Schafer Vanessa

I also read below my grade level. My all time
favorite books are the Harry Potter series. I have
read all of them at least twice, and am waiting for
the next one. I think they are well written for both
adults and kids. By the way, I am 39.

---Vanessa

--- airokat@... wrote:

> Thanks,
> I did tell her I read below my grade level all the
> time. I also love the teen genre books! I just read
> one this morning....it was reading level grade 5!
> And Lemony Snicket is a genious. Did you notice how
> the characters in the "Unfortunate Events" series
> are kind of unschoolers? Except when they end up at
> that horrible academy. "The Austere Academy," that
> one was hilarious.
> Kathryn
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Michelle Leifur Reid"
> <pamperedmichelle@...>
> On 10/14/06, airokat@...
> <airokat@...> wrote:
> She made some remark about the fact that she's
> reading too much stuff
> "thats below my grade level."
>
> Tell your daughter that you know of a 41 yo woman
> who reads "below her
> grade level" quite often! I'm 41 and "should" be
> reading on a Masters
> degree reading level :-) I LOVE Harry Potter,
> Christopher Paolini's
> Eragon series, manga, Pendragon books, and I read
> Little Women by
> Louisa May Alcott every year (it's my favorite book
> of all time). I
> adore "teen and young adult literature" and believe
> that there are so
> many gifted writers in the genre.
>
> Michelle - who just finished "The End" by Lemony
> Snicket
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: woodswords@...

Any advice on how you help "arm" your kids verbally so they can
respond
confidently when encountering the "uneducated" traditionalist of the
world?

-=-=-=-=-=-

Mostly it depends on who and why. But there are several options. <g>

"I'm not a performing monkey."

"What's 639 divided by 57? (and have him memorize the answer)

"How many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence didn't go
to school? (And know the answer)

"Please don't quiz me."

"I don't know. Does it matter?"

"I don't go to school, so I don't have to answer stupid questions. I
get to *ASK* them."

"What is the answer? OK, now I know. Thanks!"

"I don't know. Pass the bean dip.

~Kelly


________________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: m_kher@...

. I
> must be doing
> something right, huh?
Nyaah! You just lucked out! <BG>

-=-=-=-

Maybe. I think they would have been OK in school. Complete with
"deadlights"---but OK.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Seriously though, when dh was talking with some folks
about unschooling what he said got dismissed with -
"But your kids are so motivated, my kids would just
watch TV all day..." I think unschooling goes so
against conventional wisdom that people don't want to
believe it even after they see it.

-=-=-=-=-=-

*MY* kid DID just watch TV all day! For MONTHS!

But then that got old, and he started skateboarding. <g>

He's been SOOOO busy lately, I just today suggested that he do nothing
for a while. Just veg and "digest" all he's done. He needs a break from
his busy, busy life!

If someone thinks so little of their children, they deserve kids who do
nothing! <g> Motivation doesn't come externally. It HAS to come from
inside (welll, I guess *I* could be motivated with a whip and chains,
but....). Deadlines help. <g>

~Kelly





________________________________________________________________________
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JULIE WOOD-HOLMLUND

Those are awesome, Kelly! Thanks :)

And I'd love to know the answer regarding the signers of the Declaration of Independence... will have to look that one up... :)

Hugs,

Julie


Free Hugs!
inspiring video...
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2874839352749552222&q=free+hug

-----Original Message-----
From: woodswords@btintern et.com

Any advice on how you help "arm" your kids verbally so they can respond confidently when encountering the "uneducated" traditionalist of the world?

-=-=-=-=-=-

Mostly it depends on who and why. But there are several options. <g>

"I'm not a performing monkey."

"What's 639 divided by 57? (and have him memorize the answer)

"How many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence didn't go
to school? (And know the answer)

"Please don't quiz me."

"I don't know. Does it matter?"

"I don't go to school, so I don't have to answer stupid questions. I
get to *ASK* them."

"What is the answer? OK, now I know. Thanks!"

"I don't know. Pass the bean dip.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nance Confer

unschoolingbasicsThere are a lot of us!

Because, you know, there actually is a right way to load the dishwasher no matter what my DH says! :)

Nance


so nice I can tell her other people do it too. ha ha ha

Julie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]