squeakybiscuit

OK. There was a documentary about Hitler on, and I remembered Luke
mentioning Hitler to me a couple of times over the last few months,
so I told him it was on. He said he didn't want to watch it, so I
said no problem and sat down to watch it myself. After a few minutes
of watching it, I yelled into the other room to him, "Hey Luke Did
you know Hitler was a sex maniac?" becasue the docuimentary said he
was obseessed with sex. And Luke says--get this- I knew that!

Apparently, he has been researching Hitler at least a little bit to
have known that. I'm wondering what else he knows about him, but I
don't want to push the issue. So I let it drop.

Then, Later in the evening,he is on the computer and I overhear him
say to his brother, "Did you know we're descendants of "homo-
erectus" and he laughs. He liked the sound of the word because it
says "homo" in it. He had asked the questions about the origin of
man earlier today, and I ordered a book from the library, but I
guess he wanted to know more now. SO HE WAS READING IT ON HIS OWN!

He still has a big problem with books, but reading on the web is
wonderful! I wish he didn't have his aversion to real books, but
maybe with time.

Now my question is- what about math? My state requires that we cover
Algebra and Geometry and I don't know either topic. I can't see him
playing with Algebra and Geometry of his own free will.

How do you get real life experience with Algebra and Geometry?

[email protected]

<<real life experience with algebra and geometry>>

My family is not math happy folks....we aren't the kind of people that like to play math games for fun but we still have lots of algebra and geometry going on....the kids learned it differently than school kids though....it doesn't look the same.

Algebra--There are seven of us and 18 cookies. How many cookies can each of us get? 7 times X equals 18.

Figuring out how much would we needed for sheds and such.

Geometry--getting the goat shed square when we built it. Playing pool, etc..

My kids learned what the problems looked like in the physical world rather than how to write down a formula and work it. Adriane (my 15yo) wants to attend the local hs next year (that is where all the 17yo boys are <grin>) and I knew she had limited experience in math notation. So I hooked her up with a tutor over the summer. The tutor says Adriane is already head and shoulders above most kids her age because she isn't afraid of math and understand the terms easily.

This is just backwards of how school kids learn math. They learn the notation first and then eventually, perhaps use that notation for real world problems.

Julie S.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 6/11/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
>
> Now my question is- what about math? My state requires that we cover
> Algebra and Geometry and I don't know either topic. I can't see him
> playing with Algebra and Geometry of his own free will.
>

Algebra is figuring out an unknown element in a problem. We do it all
the time. When our checkbook doesn't balance by 52¢ there is an
unknown element that is causing it to be off. That is algebra.
Algebra is figuring out how many servings of brownies you will get if
you have 5 batches. There is nothing mysterious about algebra. What
makes algebra mysterious are textbooks trying to make people think in
algebraic ways through a serious of ever increasing problems which
make no sense to the majority of people who are having to do them in
order to pass some class.

Geometry is the math of shapes. Most of it is totally irrelevant when
dealing with real life. How often do *most* people have to figure out
what the volume is of a cone? The only cone that most people deal
with on a regular bases seems to be an ice cream cone and the only
reason that one needs to worry about the volume is when it is full and
you have a nice scoop on the top to start with. I would presume that
many of us took geometry in high school or college. How many of us
remember how to figure out the volume of a cone? We deal with shapes,
though, on an almost daily basis. Putting boxes on shelves, cans in
cupboards, soup in bowls, cutting out art projects, drawing, doodling,
decorating, moving furniture etc. We see volume in those same boxes
and cans. When we cook we use geometry. Measurements, volume,
placement of cookies on baking stones, having the right size pot for
mac and cheese. Geometry is not a static activity. Geometry most
makes sense when it is used in context.

Don't force math on him. Instead find a way to translate what he is
doing into the requirements of your state. It takes practice to see
those things and put them down to satisfy requirements because we
don't think in terms of, "Oh, I'm doing algebra" or "I think I should
use geometry to figure this problem out."


--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: jnjstau@... <jnjstau@...>

Geometry--getting the goat shed square when we built it. Playing pool,
etc..


-=-=-

Yeah---Cameron has told me before that he's going down to the nearby
pool hall to learn a little geometry! <g>

-=-=-=-

The tutor says Adriane is already head and shoulders above most
kids her age because she isn't afraid of math and understand the terms
easily.

-=-=-=-

Exactly!

-=-=-=-=-=-

This is just backwards of how school kids learn math. They learn the
notation
first and then eventually, perhaps use that notation for real world
problems.

-=-=-=-=

Right---it's so much better to understand the concept because you've
actually used it and *then* learn the symbols/notations than to learn
the silly notations and have to plug them into a nonsense puzzle
because someone said to and never even *get* to the concept/real use
part!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith


________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:17 PM, Michelle/Melbrigða wrote:

>> My state requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry and I don't
>> know either topic.

Didn't you go to school? Gee, interesting that you don't know algebra
or geometry - guess schooling didn't work for you, huh?

I doubt your state requires algebra and geometry for a 12 year old.
What state are you in?

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jlh44music

<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>> My state requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry and I don't
know either topic.>>

> Didn't you go to school? Gee, interesting that you don't know
algebra or geometry - guess schooling didn't work for you, huh?>

pam has a good point here (meant in a MOST supportive way!)
Jann

[email protected]

**Then, Later in the evening,he is on the computer and I overhear him

say to his brother, "Did you know we're descendants of "homo-

erectus" and he laughs. He liked the sound of the word because it

says "homo" in it. **

Do you really think so? My bet is toward the "erectus" part of the phrase. At
least that'd be what would have had MY 12yo boys doing the "huh huh huh"
laugh. <g> All together it's a heck of a funny name when you're young and in a
swirl of hormones.

Which isn't important except to point out that it's good to be careful about
what we think we know about our children. AND that sometimes, maybe often when
we haven't a history of trust, our children may not tell us the whole truth
and nothing but the truth about their thoughts and feelings. (ideas about
"erectus" being hard for even the most secure 12yo to discuss with his mother.)

Deborah in IL

Deb

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:17 PM, Michelle/Melbrigða wrote:
>
> >> My state requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry and I
>don't
> >> know either topic.
>
> Didn't you go to school? Gee, interesting that you don't know
>algebra
> or geometry - guess schooling didn't work for you, huh?
>
> I doubt your state requires algebra and geometry for a 12 year
>old.
> What state are you in?
>
> -pam
>
PA does specify algebra and geometry for secondary school - which is
not where a 12 yr old would be. PA is the only place that they are
specifically mentioned that I could find at a glance.

--Deb

Elissa Jill Cleaveland

My state requires that we cover
> Algebra and Geometry and I don't know either topic.

***Are you sure? Does it say somewhere in your state HS statutes that a "sixth grader" is required to study Algebra? Or does it say Math? Or does it say nothing at all?
I can't see him
> playing with Algebra and Geometry of his own free will.
********That's because you need to learn to see differently. He is NOT "playing with Algebra" in a conscious, writing on paper and learning Theorums kinda way.

I think that much of the answers you are looking for are only things that can be seen once your eye's have been opened.
Stop looking for school. It's not going to be there.
Deschooling is not just for children, IMO, it's more for the adults. If kids are given time to heal, they will heal. Just let them play, no matter their age. YOU are the one who has to deschool. This may take you a year or even more if you have college, a Master's or more.
You are the one that needs to see what is outside of the box.
Many posters have given you many wonderful ideas and thoughts. They are all a great place to START.
So my suggestion is to start BEing with your kids. Enjoy them as you would a favored guest in your home. Look for Joy, look for Fun, look for Peace.
That's it for now. Take one year, just one, and get rid of all the have to's should be's and what if's.
Just BE.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

squeakybiscuit

I'm in PA. It requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry sometime
on the secondary level. (between grades 7-12).



--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:17 PM, Michelle/Melbrigða wrote:
>
> >> My state requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry and I
don't
> >> know either topic.
>
> Didn't you go to school? Gee, interesting that you don't know
algebra
> or geometry - guess schooling didn't work for you, huh?
>
> I doubt your state requires algebra and geometry for a 12 year
old.
> What state are you in?
>
> -pam
>
> Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
> Live Love Learn
> UNSCHOOL!
> <http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Melissa

Good news is that if that's true, and someone is truly interested in
algebra, you don't have to introduce it til the last half of their
'senior' year and you'd get it all done. So wait til they are about
ready for college and do it then.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Jun 12, 2006, at 7:53 AM, Deb wrote:

> --- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
> <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:17 PM, Michelle/Melbrigða wrote:
> >
> > >> My state requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry and I
> >don't
> > >> know either topic.
> >
> PA does specify algebra and geometry for secondary school - which is
> not where a 12 yr old would be. PA is the only place that they are
> specifically mentioned that I could find at a glance.
>
> --Deb
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>He still has a big problem with books, but reading on the web is
wonderful! I wish he didn't have his aversion to real books, but
maybe with time. >>

"Real" books are just words and pictures on paper as opposed to words and pictures on a screen. They are both equally good at conveying the author's intent. And if you watch it in a movie or TV show you get moving pictures and narration. That can convey meaning and intent better in some instances. I wouldn't hold "real" books above other ways to get information.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "squeakybiscuit" <squeakybiscuit@...>
> OK. There was a documentary about Hitler on, and I remembered Luke
> mentioning Hitler to me a couple of times over the last few months,
> so I told him it was on. He said he didn't want to watch it, so I
> said no problem and sat down to watch it myself. After a few minutes
> of watching it, I yelled into the other room to him, "Hey Luke Did
> you know Hitler was a sex maniac?" becasue the docuimentary said he
> was obseessed with sex. And Luke says--get this- I knew that!
>
> Apparently, he has been researching Hitler at least a little bit to
> have known that. I'm wondering what else he knows about him, but I
> don't want to push the issue. So I let it drop.
>
> Then, Later in the evening,he is on the computer and I overhear him
> say to his brother, "Did you know we're descendants of "homo-
> erectus" and he laughs. He liked the sound of the word because it
> says "homo" in it. He had asked the questions about the origin of
> man earlier today, and I ordered a book from the library, but I
> guess he wanted to know more now. SO HE WAS READING IT ON HIS OWN!
>
> He still has a big problem with books, but reading on the web is
> wonderful! I wish he didn't have his aversion to real books, but
> maybe with time.
>
> Now my question is- what about math? My state requires that we cover
> Algebra and Geometry and I don't know either topic. I can't see him
> playing with Algebra and Geometry of his own free will.
>
> How do you get real life experience with Algebra and Geometry?
>
>
>
>

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 6/12/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:

> I'm in PA. It requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry sometime
> on the secondary level. (between grades 7-12).
>
>

Which means that you have 6 years in which to cover it. I wonder, can
a child graduate from a PA high school without completing algebra and
geometry? I know it wasn't a requirement when I went to high school
and it isn't a requirement in the current public school system here.
Makes me wonder if the standards for homeschooling are higher than
those for public schooling. Also does it say *how* these subjects are
supposed to be covered? If not then hands on day-to-day use of math
and physical shapes should suffice. :-)


--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

squeakybiscuit

I graduated from public school in PA and never had geometry, though
I did take Algebra 1 (I don't remember anything from it though)



Erin

--- In [email protected], "Michelle/Melbrigða"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>
> On 6/12/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm in PA. It requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry
sometime
> > on the secondary level. (between grades 7-12).
> >
> >
>
> Which means that you have 6 years in which to cover it. I wonder,
can
> a child graduate from a PA high school without completing algebra
and
> geometry? I know it wasn't a requirement when I went to high
school
> and it isn't a requirement in the current public school system
here.
> Makes me wonder if the standards for homeschooling are higher than
> those for public schooling. Also does it say *how* these subjects
are
> supposed to be covered? If not then hands on day-to-day use of
math
> and physical shapes should suffice. :-)
>
>
> --
> Michelle
> aka Melbrigða
> http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
> [email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval
Recreationist
>

Elissa Jill Cleaveland

There is a Yahoogroup called PAUnschoolers (I think)
They would be much better resources for questions that are specific to PA.
Personally, I think the best way to unschoool in PA is either to move out of PA or to go "underground" and not register as a homeschooler. The latter would be a difficult option once one has already registered.
When I lived there, I did not register my children after researching the truancy laws.
YMMV
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

squeakybiscuit

I forgot to answer the second part of your question...


No, it doesn't specify how it is to be covered or how in depth you
must go with it. The kids aren't tested or anything and don't have
to be proficient at either.



--- In [email protected], "Michelle/Melbrigða"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>
> On 6/12/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm in PA. It requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry
sometime
> > on the secondary level. (between grades 7-12).
> >
> >
>
> Which means that you have 6 years in which to cover it. I wonder,
can
> a child graduate from a PA high school without completing algebra
and
> geometry? I know it wasn't a requirement when I went to high
school
> and it isn't a requirement in the current public school system
here.
> Makes me wonder if the standards for homeschooling are higher than
> those for public schooling. Also does it say *how* these subjects
are
> supposed to be covered? If not then hands on day-to-day use of
math
> and physical shapes should suffice. :-)
>
>
> --
> Michelle
> aka Melbrigða
> http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
> [email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval
Recreationist
>

[email protected]

>>I'm in PA. It requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry sometime on the secondary level. (between grades 7-12).>>

So you've got a few years there to "cover" it. Does it say how it has to be covered?

Also, do you yourself have a good grasp of what Algebra and Geometry are? They are mathematical solutions for figuring out real life problems. You might want to read Algebra Unplugged just for yourself. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0962781576/qid=1150158708/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6308429-2149547?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 It'll take away some of the mystery. I don't know if there's an equivalent for Geometry.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "squeakybiscuit" <squeakybiscuit@...>
> I'm in PA. It requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry sometime
> on the secondary level. (between grades 7-12).
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
> <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jun 11, 2006, at 8:17 PM, Michelle/Melbrig�a wrote:
> >
> > >> My state requires that we cover Algebra and Geometry and I
> don't
> > >> know either topic.
> >
> > Didn't you go to school? Gee, interesting that you don't know
> algebra
> > or geometry - guess schooling didn't work for you, huh?
> >
> > I doubt your state requires algebra and geometry for a 12 year
> old.
> > What state are you in?
> >
> > -pam
> >
> > Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
> > Live Love Learn
> > UNSCHOOL!
> > <http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>

D Smith

erin,

then everyday life would cover it. you have years to
cover it. and if you think about what happens in
public schools, then saying you covered it in the 12th
grade, really wouldn't be a lie. i knew many of my
friends who saved the subjects they hated for their
senior year. not, me i didn't have one. maybe i could
say i was an unschooler, that year, instead of what i
say which is 'i was a bum'. lol; and now you have one
less worry. :)


for some reason trusting my son, to learn in his life
is easy for me. i just need help with the radical
part. but i'm getting better.

danie

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