[email protected]

The posts today have me wondering about what parents need to unschool.

I think you *really* do have to see learning in everything. There's no
"manner of unschooling"---there's learning and there's ...not.

I think many parents think that a child will "get" schoolish subjects
by doing something that the *parent* could possibly, remotely see as
academic.

Reading recipes, IMing (REAL writing for REAL purpose), discussion,
philosophizing, and laughing are all too far outside school's grasp.
Not "academic enough---not academic at all.

Like building a deck would be an acceptable way to "get" math.
Or---making a robot could qualify as math. A child needn't read
Shakespeare, but he *should* want to read the classics for English.
Stephen King wouldn't count---that's just fluff. And maybe not write a
report, but at least write poetry or beautiful (and proper!) letters to
Grandma.

But that's NOT what real learning looks like. That's all school crap.
Sandra calls it "looking at the world through school-colored glasses."
Take the damned glasses OFF!

The young man who is interested in bombs concerns me. He *could* be a
borderline personality and be actually dangerous. He could just be
trying to shock his mom into leaving him alone---or the other
extreme---shock her into doing *something*---seeing him as real.

Since she sees him as deficient, I'm guessing it's the latter. I think
he's a smart kid with a mom who doesn't understand him or learning in
general.

You can't change the child. You *can* change yourself and how you see
him. See him as perfect and whole and unique and smart and wonderful.
See him as a learning machine. Change *YOURSELF* and your child will
blossom.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
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Ren Allen

"The young man who is interested in bombs concerns me. He *could* be a
borderline personality and be actually dangerous."

I guess it depends on a lot of other factors. To me, this child sounds
like a human being that has not had enough control in his life and the
dangerous stuff makes him feel powerful. Not a great way to gain
control. Give him real power over his life and he'll be in a better
position to see the harm in some of that stuff...hopefully.

Trevor is fascinated with weaponry, how to make bombs etc... He's also
a peace-loving individual with NO hint of a desire to actually harm
anything or try dangerous illegal activities. He's a hugely sweet guy
that would give a friend the shirt off his back if he thought they
needed it.

He also feels in control of his life and knows he has the power to
make any changes and be supported completely. Big difference.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Barbara Miller

Well, my first day on this list and I might be blackballed after this, LOL,
but I just had to speak up. The 12 year old who is interested in bombs,
poisons, and drugs - yes, it could totally be a phase or attention-getting
tactic. But I would be interested to know how long he has been interested
in/pursuing these topics? If it just started, that is one thing - I would
keep a loose eye on it. It could be a passing interest. Maybe one day he
will be an expert at defusing bombs - you never know.



But, if it is something that has been an interest for awhile, I agree with
the person that said it could also be dangerous. Hopefully not, but those
of you responding know nothing about this boy. Neither do I. But there
have been too many tragedies with kids in this country to not also take it
seriously. If it is a concern for you Erin, I would ask the opinions of
those who you trust and also know your son well to see what they think.



And, again, I am not trying to be an alarmist - not at all. I just think
you do need to take into consideration that it could also be him sending
signals that he might need help - in whatever form or fashion. Just a
different point of view..



Well, if I'm blackballed, it was fun while it lasted..



Barbara





"The young man who is interested in bombs concerns me. He *could* be a
borderline personality and be actually dangerous."





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jun 10, 2006, at 2:47 PM, Ren Allen wrote:

> To me, this child sounds
> like a human being that has not had enough control in his life and the
> dangerous stuff makes him feel powerful. Not a great way to gain
> control. Give him real power over his life and he'll be in a better
> position to see the harm in some of that stuff...hopefully.


I agree. Seems like he's turning his anger over feeling powerless
outward - most kids turn it inward into some kind of self-loathing or
even self-harm, such as cutting or starving themselves.

He's young, too, and so I, personally, would worry about where this
would lead if nothing is done to empower him in other ways.

A fascination with explosives isn't unusual - lots of my teens'
friends are VERY into explosives - in movies and in their "play." But
this interest along WITH the rest of the information and the way the
mom speaks about it - that definitely seems worrisome.

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christy Mahoney

> "The young man who is interested in bombs concerns me. He *could*
be a
> borderline personality and be actually dangerous."

This reminds me of something a couple of years ago on an unschooling
list. A mom said that her son wanted to go into the military, and
another mom on the list was just horrified. She said something to
the effect that all soldiers were basically dysfunctional people.
Several people responded to tell her that this was just untrue.

Lots of people find bombs to be interesting. I've always been
fascinated by fire, and I used to enjoy chemistry experiments where
I got to burn stuff - LOL. My dh is in the Air Force and is very
knowledgeable about weapons. He likes to play shooter games on the
computer or be an assassin in games & stuff like that. He's not a
violent person at all.

Please don't assume that just because someone is interested in
something that can be dangerous, the person is dangerous.

-Christy

Malinda Mills

<<My dh is in the Air Force and is very
knowledgeable about weapons. He likes to play shooter games on the
computer or be an assassin in games & stuff like that. He's not a
violent person at all. >>


This sounds so much like my husband who is in the Army. He also happens to be a demolitions expert (he's a Combat Engineer). Right now he is teaching Iraqi soldiers how to detect and defuse IEDs (improvised explosive devices). He's probably the most levelheaded and sincere person I've ever met. He's also not violent at all. But, boy, does he love his demolitions! He's like a really big kid when he starts talking about his job...he gets that twinkle in his eye, and his face just lights up. The sign of someone who is passionate about his job.

Malinda

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tina

Just chiming in on this topic of bombs and weapons interest in
relationship to a young man. Our first five were girls...the last
two boys. What a WORLD of difference. They truely are from
Mars! :-)

Our oldest boy, Andrew, is 14, and he has wanted to go into the
military ever since he was five-years-old. He loves everything guns
and knives. He loves to explore martial arts. He thinks the idea
of killing a squirrel or a bird is a-okay, and in the right instance
maybe even funny. Andrew is also a natural shot and great hunter.
He views violence in war as necessary and acceptable. On the flip
side he is excellent with young children, extremely helpful,
compassionate, a good writer and a wonderful artist who wouldn't
hurt anyone.

Our youngest boy, Adrian, is 12, and he loves "violent" video games,
b.b. guns, South Park, Joe Cartoon and looks forward to joining Pat
and Andrew for his first hunt this fall even though he's a
vegetarian. On the flip side he is thoughtful, knowledgable about
small animals and history, has extreme polital views and interests
and is also good with young children. He would never hurt anyone
and thinks senseless killing is, well, senseless.

I think that our boys can come as a shock to us moms at times.
There were times that Adrian's "dark side" made me raise an eyebrow
here and there, but I just paid close attention to him. I listened
more and got as in tune with him as I possibly could. From my
experience it seems that boys, maybe not all of them...but at least
some of them, go through a real "snakes and snails" phase. They are
SO different than girls, and I'm a girl. So, I don't get A LOT
about them. When it comes to this I am VERY grateful that my
husband is around. I also try to read about boys specifically. It
really does help.

I also try to be VERY, VERY open to them. They talk about
disgusting stuff that involves bodily fluids, bodily sounds and
natural urges. They talk about killing and hurting and like
aggressive things. That's not my bag, but I do talk and laugh with
them. If something REALLY grosses me out, or I just can't handle
the way they are talking, I will comment something to the tune
of, "Okay, ladies are present." or, "Mom's REALLY don't NEED to know
that!" This is always with a smile, and they tend to laugh, but
they do back it off a bit to respect my poor, little brain.

I don't know if I'll ever "get" boys, but I do know we have
excellent relationships with eachother. It didn't start this way,
but it became open and wonderful by one means. Someone else
mentioned it earlier, *I* changed, not them. It is SO true that
your behavior will change your children. Openness is ESSENTIAL for
a mom to have a successful relationship with her son...not that it
isn't essential for other things too, we just happen to be talking
about boys right now.

Just my two-cents worth...

Tina

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

>>> Stephen King wouldn't count---that's just fluff.<<<

Fiddlesticks! King... only one of the most brilliant minds of our time! IMO

Anyone who says Stephen King is just fluff hasn't read him! Who's saying
this? I want to talk to them! lol :)

Lesa McMahon
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
http://stoptherod.net/
http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/

"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth."
-John F. Kennedy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lesa ODaniel

>>Barbara Miller wrote:

>The 12 year old who is interested in bombs,
>poisons, and drugs - yes, it could totally be a phase or attention-getting
>tactic. But I would be interested to know how long he has been interested
>in/pursuing these topics? If it just started, that is one thing - I would
>keep a loose eye on it. It could be a passing interest. Maybe one day he
>will be an expert at defusing bombs - you never know.<<

I apologize if this is way off the original topic/post because I can't find
the original post to these bomb responses.

I remember when I was about 13 years old and was obsessed with being a
grifter, learning to pick locks, pick pockets, etc. I never would have
carried it out because I didn't necessarily have the need or desire to do it
in real life - I just wanted to know HOW to do it. Kind of like wanting to
be able to do a magic trick every once in a while. I wanted to know how to
have the sleight of hand to accomplish all of these (the way I saw it)
"cool" tricks. Sure, they were crimes in reality, but in the movies they
looked so cool and I wanted to be crafty (not in the knitting way that I'm
crafty these days :)

Not really an answer, and, yes, I'm sure there are concerns in some
situations and with some kids. Just putting another perspective out there.

Lesa O'Daniel, AAHCC
Instructor, Bradley Method� of Natural Childbirth
323-541-5515
http://www.bradleybirth.com/ndweb.asp?ID=O123&Count=N

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Michelle/Melbrigða

On 6/10/06, Christy Mahoney <unschooling1@...> wrote:
>
> My dh is in the Air Force and is very
> knowledgeable about weapons. He likes to play shooter games on the
> computer or be an assassin in games & stuff like that. He's not a
> violent person at all.
>

And then there is my coparent who used to be in the Navy, loves shows
about weapons and bombs and wars and plays shooter games on
Playstation, and on the weekends helps to build a trebuchet. All that
violence and yet he is a peace advocate and pacifist. :)


--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

Deb

--- In [email protected], "Lesa McMahon-Lowe"
<lesajm@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone who says Stephen King is just fluff hasn't read him! Who's
>saying
> this? I want to talk to them! lol :)
>
Not I! I just make sure that any of his books are NOT kept in the
bedroom bookshelves - the glowing eyes and all the creepy pix on the
covers make it hard for me to sleep. I've never read any of his books,
however I had a roomie who read virtually all of them...and she'd make
sure to give me plot summaries and updates on the ones she was really
enjoying...

--Deb

perkykeri

My question to add to all this discussion is--
I am a single mother to five. I have to work(at this time its only 4
hours a day) their ages are 14,12,11,10,8. they don't get along very
well with each other. I don't think I could leave them home alone for
4 hours. any ideas? I've thought about starting a home business but
that takes money. something that we all could do together. I live in
Illinois so whatever it is has to be able to be done in the winter
also. I cannot afford to travel a long way as our van has 150,000
miles now. they do all want to be homeschooled and I prefer
unschooling. I did unschool my 12yo this year-but all five makes me
uneasy. I would appreciate any and all ideas.

Barbara Miller

While I don't have any specific suggestions for a type of business, but have
you thought of doing something that you can get the whole family involved in
to do all together? Talk about unschooling and learning.. :-)

Barbara
I am a single mother to five. I have to work(at this time its only 4
hours a day) their ages are 14,12,11,10,8. they don't get along very
well with each other. I don't think I could leave them home alone for
4 hours. any ideas? I've thought about starting a home business but
that takes money. something that we all could do together.

.


<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=12789513&grpspId=1600081972&msgI
d=14479&stime=1150185365>




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[email protected]

I know a lot of people who sell stuff on e-bay and make a lot of money. All
you need is a computer and a digital camera. You can start by selling stuff
you have around that you no longer need or buy stuff at yard sales or thrift
stores. I've done it a couple of times. I sold a baby backpack I picked up at
the dump for 80.00 + shipping. All profit. I sold a pet carrier that our
free bunnies were delivered in for 45.00 + shipping. It's easy and your children
can do most of it. Packing and shipping, taking pictures, responding to
questions about the items, etc.

Once you get going, invest some of your profits in electronics. Look for
closeouts and discontinued models. My neighbor sold a cd player for twice more
than she paid.

Best of Luck,
Robin in MA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

We once did a newspaper route and earned around $900/month. It was hard cause you have to get up at 4 am but are done by 7 or so. We all went to bed early and got up early and folded papers together. Or maybe the kids could stay home sleeping while you do it?
I have had good luck making things and selling them at fairs,homeschool conferences, etc. But that is if you have an idea of what to make. I started my business very small with no money at all, sold at farmer's markets, etc. and the kids have been involved in every aspect of it.
Sarah
www.sarahssilks.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I don't know how unschooly this would be, but my aunt lives next door to a
large family of homeschoolers. They have a sort of catering business. They
have a menu of cookies, cakes, pies, sandwiches and soups, simple to make
items. They put up fliers all over the neighborhood and church and friends'
businesses. They will make simple lunches for casual business meetings, provide
cookies and cakes for parties or for a busy mom when she needs cupcakes for
school! I think they require a certain amount of notice.

My aunt says they are quite busy because people like the idea of supporting
this family. Plus the food is homemade!

I'm not sure how much of a money maker it would be. But I think it is a
good place to start to brainstorm! What simple services do people need when
most people are at work or school?

To me the tricky part might be translating this sort of "on demand" business
into an unschooling environment.

Leslie in SC



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 6/13/06, Leslie530@... <Leslie530@...> wrote:

> I don't know how unschooly this would be, but my aunt lives next door to a
> large family of homeschoolers. They have a sort of catering business. They
> have a menu of cookies, cakes, pies, sandwiches and soups, simple to make
> items. They put up fliers all over the neighborhood and church and friends'
> businesses. They will make simple lunches for casual business meetings, provide
> cookies and cakes for parties or for a busy mom when she needs cupcakes for
> school! I think they require a certain amount of notice.
>
>
Before starting any business that deals with food, make sure you know
your state and county (and city) ordinances with such an endeavor. In
some areas home based cooking businesses have to have inspecitions
just like restaurants have.


--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jun 13, 2006, at 7:05 AM, sarah8591@... wrote:

> I have had good luck making things and selling them at
> fairs,homeschool conferences, etc. But that is if you have an idea
> of what to make. I started my business very small with no money at
> all, sold at farmer's markets, etc. and the kids have been involved
> in every aspect of it.
> Sarah
> www.sarahssilks.com

Your products are absolutely beautiful, Sarah. I felt calmed down and
peaceful just looking at your website and imagining those lovely silk
items flowing through my fingers! I want the Rainbow Blanket for
myself - it is going on my list of things the kids could get me for a
birthday gift!!

How great to make a business out of providing something so lovely and
wonderful for children to play with and enjoy!!

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

keri perkins

thanks- we do a small paperroute now which makes us
100.00 a month. I've thought about expanding

--- sarah8591@... wrote:

> We once did a newspaper route and earned around
> $900/month. It was hard cause you have to get up at
> 4 am but are done by 7 or so. We all went to bed
> early and got up early and folded papers together.
> Or maybe the kids could stay home sleeping while you
> do it?
> I have had good luck making things and selling them
> at fairs,homeschool conferences, etc. But that is
> if you have an idea of what to make. I started my
> business very small with no money at all, sold at
> farmer's markets, etc. and the kids have been
> involved in every aspect of it.
> Sarah
> www.sarahssilks.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>


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jlh44music

We've recently had success with Craig's list selling a frig that we
only used for about 3 or 4 years and a bike rack that was also only
used a handful of times. I'm searching for more items that we might
have better luck selling this way as opposed to a yard or tag sale.
Jann