Janice

Hi All,

I know it has been several days since I posted about my concerns
regarding unschooling, but I do not get a chance to check the computer
everyday. I would like to thank everyone who responded to my
postings, but I am still feeling very lost, confused and overwhelmed.

There was actually someone who mentioned that maybe this is NOT the
right choice for us, and I am feeling somewhat rebuffed in my attempts
to get a better understanding of how this is supposed to look and work
and feel.

We have a family of 5 children, most of them too young to be left home
without supervision, so what do you do when 1 child wants to go and do
something and the others hate it? Also, what about children with
special needs? Should they be unschooled, should it be exactly the
same for them, or should it just be modified somehow?

As you can tell, I am still very ignorant of this whole process. I
did ?

Please feel free to tell me to just observe if that is the better
choice.

Thanks.
Janice W.
Mom to 5 boys

Ren Allen

(((((((((((((Janice)))))))))))))))

First of all, just realize that what you're going through is very
normal, especially for someone with many young children.

"We have a family of 5 children, most of them too young to be left home
without supervision, so what do you do when 1 child wants to go and do
something and the others hate it?"

Find someone for them to go with? Offer up something the others would
like to do after the activity? There are many, many options and we can
throw a bunch out for you to ponder. The point is to get creative and
not decide that unschooling can't work just because you have challenges.
I have four children, and we use a lot of compromise and negotiation!:)
These days, it's a lot easier becasue most of my children CAN be left
at home if they don't feel like going. Kids get older, it gets easier.

"Also, what about children with
special needs? Should they be unschooled, should it be exactly the
same for them, or should it just be modified somehow?"

We ALL have special needs.:)
We ALL need unschooling/life to be modified for each of us. That's the
whole point. Unschooling is about meeting the child's needs and
helping them get the most out of life in their own way. It works for
every child in the same way philisophically...but how that plays out
in your home is going to look very different from mine. The philosophy
of trust and respect is the same. HOW trust and respect are put into
practice looks different from person to person.


"As you can tell, I am still very ignorant of this whole process."

Ignorance isn't such a bad thing!:) Unwillingness to learn is
downright evil. lol

"Please feel free to tell me to just observe if that is the better
choice."

Some of us learn best by questioning and interacting with others. I
know it helps me. Your questions are really useful things to ponder
and I'm sure they'll help others that aren't willing to post. Keep on
asking...this is the good stuff!!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/2/2006 1:56:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wolverton@... writes:

Also, what about children with
special needs? Should they be unschooled, should it be exactly the
same for them, or should it just be modified somehow?



**********

I think unschooling each child you have will be a little modified, in a way.
Some children need more of this, a little less of that, and all need a
responsive parent that understands them! The principles of unschooling remain,
but how each day unfolds for each child might be a bit different.

I find that special needs children just need special parenting. By that I
mean that I find I spend more time researching and working on my parenting
skills to make sure my special needs child is getting what he needs from me. I
spend more time bringing the world down to more manageable pieces for him.
An example might be some children can watch a scarier movie by themselves and
come to you later for any discussion they need. Another child might need mom
to preview the movie first, or only see it at home instead of a big scale
scary theater or have mom watch with him and discuss the scarier parts right
then and there. So with my special needs child, I need to be much *more*
proactive beforehand and more actively participate at any given time, experience
or situation.

But he is happily unschooling for four years. :)

Leslie in SC





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 6/2/06, Janice <wolverton@...> wrote:
>
>
> We have a family of 5 children, most of them too young to be left home
> without supervision, so what do you do when 1 child wants to go and do
> something and the others hate it?


Take them with you and do something else while the one child is engaged in
his passions. I have a friend who has 4 children ages 3-14. They obviously
have different interests and are constantly on the go. While one child
takes karate the other children go outside and run in the grass or read
books or draw or she runs them down the street to a park. She has a
treasure trove of activities in their car (since they are always on the go)
from books, art supplies (mostly drawing things - crayons, books, paper),
and games. It *can* be done. It just takes a little ingenuity on your
part.

Also, what about children with
> special needs? Should they be unschooled, should it be exactly the
> same for them, or should it just be modified somehow?


HOw should it be modified? There is a list called "shine with unschooling"
on yahoogroups and there are many families on there with children that would
be categorized as having special needs by the public school system who are
shining just wonderfully. I believe that Sandra Dodd has a few articles
about unschooling the child with different needs. *All* our children have
needs, some just need a little more help, patience and time than others. My
son is high functioning autistic, but it hasn't stopped us from allowing him
to live joyfully!

Please feel free to tell me to just observe if that is the better
> choice.


Observe, yes. Question, please. Read, always! And ponder all the things
you read here. Look at your boys and ask yourself if you are willing to
trust them to learn to trust you.





--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi Janice,

I have 5 kids as well. Here is what I would recommend to you starting
out.

When the kids want to do something, think long and hard before you
tell them no. Is there any possible way you can tell them yes
instead? If you have a strong feeling that you should tell them no,
ask yourself why. Is it because they could really get hurt? Is it
because someone else or something could really get hurt? Is it because
"that just isn't what we do"? Will it really matter in a month? Will
you even remember? Unless you can come up with a real, right now
problem with what they want to do, tell them yes.

Understand that sometimes you DO have to say no, sometimes it just
works out that Joey has to come with you to the store even though he
didn't want to. Honor that. Let him know that you realize it is a
bummer, sing a song with him, offer to let him pick the radio station,
whatever. Don't blow off his feelings.

I would just do those two things for a couple of months....see what
happens.

Julie S.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: jnjstau@... <jnjstau@...>

When the kids want to do something, think long and hard before you
tell them no. Is there any possible way you can tell them yes
instead? If you have a strong feeling that you should tell them no,
ask yourself why. Is it because they could really get hurt? Is it
because someone else or something could really get hurt? Is it because
"that just isn't what we do"? Will it really matter in a month? Will
you even remember? Unless you can come up with a real, right now
problem with what they want to do, tell them yes.

Understand that sometimes you DO have to say no, sometimes it just
works out that Joey has to come with you to the store even though he
didn't want to. Honor that. Let him know that you realize it is a
bummer, sing a song with him, offer to let him pick the radio station,
whatever. Don't blow off his feelings.

I would just do those two things for a couple of months....see what
happens.

-=-=-=-

That's a *really* nice way to start out, Julie!



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Janice <wolverton@...>

There was actually someone who mentioned that maybe this is NOT the
right choice for us, and I am feeling somewhat rebuffed in my attempts
to get a better understanding of how this is supposed to look and work
and feel.

-=-=-

It's not for everyone. And we're not trying to keep you or anyone else
away form unschooling. It's just *hard*! Not everyone's up for the
battle.

-==--=-

We have a family of 5 children, most of them too young to be left home
without supervision, so what do you do when 1 child wants to go and do
something and the others hate it?
-=-=-=-

Others will multiple children will chime in here.

-=-=-=-=-

Also, what about children with
special needs? Should they be unschooled, should it be exactly the
same for them, or should it just be modified somehow?

-=-=-

It's different for *EVERY* child, Special needs or not. No two are
identical.

But special needs seem to benefit even *more* for being accepted for
Who They Are Right Now.

-=-=-=-

Please feel free to tell me to just observe if that is the better
choice.

-=-=-=-=-

I'd suggest to read at SandraDodd.com and at Joyce Fetteroll's
ReJoycing site. Get Rue Kream's absolutely incredible book, Parenting a
Free Child, an Unschooled Life

Read here---daily---and go back and read the archives. Ask questions.
That's what we're here for.


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith

[email protected]

>>Also, what about children with special needs? Should they be unschooled, should it be exactly the same for them, or should it just be modified somehow? >>

Here's my take on special needs: http://sandradodd.com/special/mary

Unschooling allows each child to develop at their own pace, with their own style and utilizing their own special abilities.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Leslie530@...

Melissa

What ages are your children? As you can see in my sig line, I have
seven, all fairly young.

I think it's hard to tell you what to do, especially when every
instance is so dynamic. If one child wants to do something, what is
it? Is it a once-in-a-lifetime chance, or is it a weekly occurrence,
or is it something that could happen any day? Is it in a place that
is enclosed with no other options (like a classroom where it would be
hard to entertain other kids) or is it at a park where people could
make choices about what they can do at that time? Is it an event you
could drop the one child off at while you take the other kids to a
local park? Is it an event that takes all day, or just an hour, or is
the time flexible? Are you willing to negotiate and say, "X would
like the opportunity to do this, since we're out, is there anything
someone else would like to do?" or maybe "X wanted to go to this
playgroup, I happened to see a new comic book store over there, maybe
we could stop there later. Do you want to bring a toy/book/gameboy to
stay entertained while x is doing y?"

But you see how it's not this or that, it really depends on the
situation. And obviously if it's something that lasts an hour at an
art studio you'll play it differently than something that lasts all
day at the park.

On special needs, I like what someone said about everyone having
special needs. I have one with autism, one with aspergers, I have one
with social anxiety and another with speech impediments and adhd. I
have two with food allergies. I have a newborn. Unschooling allows me
to address each of their needs. It allows them that they know what
they are interested in and to have me facilitate one on one, rather
than be in a public school where it's legislated and the school has
no idea how to force feed their curriculum to a child it wasn't
tailored to. We did that already, it was an exercise in frustration
and left my kids angry and confused. What to remember is that
unschooling doesn't look the same for ANY two kids, whether they have
a disability or not. We facilitate a LOT more with Breanna than we
need to with our other kids, primarily because of her autism. She is
nonverbal and can't communicate like the other children. She has
eating disorders based on sensory information, we work harder at
providing healthy alternatives in appealing manners. It may look more
hectic, but we do things on her schedule...she has to get up and run
in circles in between her play on boardgames or videogames. She reads
books by taking them apart and artzifying them (okay, we made up that
word long before we knew that people embellished books as a hobby).

And there is a huge difference between my aspie and autie, who were
in school for five years, and my son with adhd, because he's never
been in school. He's never been labeled on a daily basis, told he is
bad because of his behavior, or never forced to do something that is
against his nature. The thought of them forcing him to sit in a seat
for even 15 minutes made me sick. He's doing great at home, he's
learning how to read, learning how to work, learning how to
compromise in the real world. Last week we were in a restaurant, and
he asked to go outside because he knew he couldn't sit still any
longer. My dh took him out, they ran up and down the hills outside,
and then came in. He was able to finish the meal, and sit while we
were finishing. He asked near the end if someone could take him back
out, and I asked him if he could wait just a couple minutes until we
paid, and he said sure. And he did, albeit bouncily.

So see, he's learning all the time, not just academics, but he's
getting real world practice of how to live with a differently abled
brain. My daughter with autism, in public schools would be forced
along in academics that don't matter to her, and as part of her
autism training, they wanted to teach her to brush her teeth and
hair. When she hit sixteen (some kind of magical age ;-) ) then they
would teach her how to shop and clean house. WTH? That's not cool.
She wants to go NOW. We take her to mcd's and she buys her own french
fries. They are amazed. Whatever.

and now I'm talking too much. I'm trying to avoid dishes. Just like
the rest of my family, which makes it even more imperative that I do
it. lol! Long and short of it is, it's not all black and white with
compromise, and all families benefit from unschooling. Parents, and
kids of any ability.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Jun 2, 2006, at 9:14 AM, Janice wrote:
>
> We have a family of 5 children, most of them too young to be left home
> without supervision, so what do you do when 1 child wants to go and do
> something and the others hate it? Also, what about children with
> special needs? Should they be unschooled, should it be exactly the
> same for them, or should it just be modified somehow?
>
> As you can tell, I am still very ignorant of this whole process. I
> did ?

Willa Ryan

I have 7 kids, but they range in age from 20 (in college) down to 3 years
old, so my situation is a bit different. I don't have to drag all the kids
everywhere any more, but I remember when we did. My daughter in particular
really liked to be out and about, while one of my sons was a very strong
introvert who thrived in a homebound environment.

We did a lot of working-out. If my sons had to be along for one of my
daughter's events, I would try to do something to make the trip a little
better for them -- books on tape, a treat at the store, whatever. Maybe
you could focus some activities for weekends or evenings; my dh is sometimes
willing to watch the kids at home OR provide the transportation for the more
active ones. In the long run, this working-out process has been a great
learning thing in itself. We were all challenged to look for working
solutions, but nothing ever worked perfectly for everyone ALL the time.

I have a special needs child -- medically fragile and he had a stroke in
infancy, so he has global delays. He just turned seven. Unschooling is
working GREAT for him. What I am seeing is that unschooling helps me
focus on my childrens' strengths, not their weaknesses.. Structured
schooling expects kids to do certain things at certain times, and BE a
certain way too -- usually extroverted. When my introverted kids went to
school when they were younger, they were overwhelmed by the environment
around them -- classes changing every hour, so many people, even the neat
preschool toys and learning projects -- it was just TOO much. But the
attitude was that it was my children who were wrong, or my parenting had
been inadequate, not that the environment was simply not suitable for them.

My special needs child, though he is extroverted, had a similar reaction to
Early Intervention -- SO much sensory input pouring in, and a focus on
working on his deficits. Unschooling, I can celebrate his progress and find
things that he will respond to, not expect him to respond to something just
because other kids do or because the therapist wants him to respond. So
much of school, especially for special needs children, seems behavioristic
and manipulative to me now.

I loved Melissa's post -- yes, I think the solution varies according to the
specific situations. Maybe if you asked for advice on a particular
situation. I find that sometimes I think I see a general problem in my
kids -- then when I try to describe it specifically, it breaks down to be
one somehwat manageable problem. Or the ideas that work for the one
specific problem sometimes help with the related problems. What's helped
me most, though, is realizing that all the problems have many, many
approaches to solutions, and that tackling it this way -- choices and
possibilities -- is a great example for the kids. I'm still learning this,
but even the little I've done has had lots of benefits.

Willa
married to Kevin, children Liam 20, Brendan 18, Clare 16, Sean 13, Kieron
10, Aidan 7 and Patrick 3

Ren Allen

" What I am seeing is that unschooling helps me
focus on my childrens' strengths, not their weaknesses.. "

I'm SO glad you mentioned this!
One of the really interesting Dad's I chatted with at the conference
told me about Japanese Table Tennis players. The way they train, is
to focus on their strengths and really put energy into that.
By contrast, the American players focus on making their weaknesses
better, and therefore the Japanese players tend to dominate.

Imagine that! Focusing on strengths and not worrying about the
weaknesses!:) What a great concept. One that unschoolers understand
all too well.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com