sometimes his passions make me nervous
Ren Allen
"Mostly I wrote the post not to beliettle him but to illustrate why I
might be nervious and to see if anyone else ever felt nervious or
experianced somthing similer."
Heck yeah.....I think a lot of us that shifted from some limits to a
more free lifestyle had some nervous moments. I sure did when my kids
were first VERY into television and video games. I kept having fits
and starts, questioning myself and others.
It takes a while to trust enough where you won't feel momentary
doubts. But luckily, our kids don't have to know we have these little
internal dialogues. We can just keep smiling and working through our
issues internally!:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
might be nervious and to see if anyone else ever felt nervious or
experianced somthing similer."
Heck yeah.....I think a lot of us that shifted from some limits to a
more free lifestyle had some nervous moments. I sure did when my kids
were first VERY into television and video games. I kept having fits
and starts, questioning myself and others.
It takes a while to trust enough where you won't feel momentary
doubts. But luckily, our kids don't have to know we have these little
internal dialogues. We can just keep smiling and working through our
issues internally!:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Natalie Komitsky
Hello,
I just joined on the recommendation of a friend who described your list as
"everything you need to know". That's great for me because I know
unschooling is the best for my family but I'm having some difficulty getting
the "how to" part down.
Talk to me more about controlling the TV time, please!
I have an 8 year old son, who is profoundly gifted and a daughter who is 6
and very creative, exhibits characteristics of gifted, and a 14 month old
dangerously curious daughter. We have homeschooled from the beginning
except for a short period in a religious part-time preschool environment in
order for them to master Arabic.
Salam,
Natalie
I just joined on the recommendation of a friend who described your list as
"everything you need to know". That's great for me because I know
unschooling is the best for my family but I'm having some difficulty getting
the "how to" part down.
Talk to me more about controlling the TV time, please!
I have an 8 year old son, who is profoundly gifted and a daughter who is 6
and very creative, exhibits characteristics of gifted, and a 14 month old
dangerously curious daughter. We have homeschooled from the beginning
except for a short period in a religious part-time preschool environment in
order for them to master Arabic.
Salam,
Natalie
On 5/14/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "Mostly I wrote the post not to beliettle him but to illustrate why I
> might be nervious and to see if anyone else ever felt nervious or
> experianced somthing similer."
>
> Heck yeah.....I think a lot of us that shifted from some limits to a
> more free lifestyle had some nervous moments. I sure did when my kids
> were first VERY into television and video games. I kept having fits
> and starts, questioning myself and others.
>
> It takes a while to trust enough where you won't feel momentary
> doubts. But luckily, our kids don't have to know we have these little
> internal dialogues. We can just keep smiling and working through our
> issues internally!:)
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
> ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> - Visit your group "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"
> on the web.
>
> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>Talk to me more about controlling the TV time, please!>>I'm sure you'd like more of an answer than "you don't need to control it." <g> So it would help if you explained what it is you are concerned about. What is the TV situation like in your house? What's your biggest fear if you let your kids watch?
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Natalie Komitsky" <nkomitsky@...>
Natalie Komitsky
Well, I have benefitted by just mumbling to my husband about it instead of
freaking out on the kids. We recently upgraded our cable service to include
Discovery Channel 1 and 2 and the Animal Planet, but of course with that
package comes Disney, Cartoon Network, and a whole slew of other pure
entertainment channels. I get out of whack when I see that my son spends
huge amounts of time on pure entertainment options.
But, of course, as life goes in cycles, today he got out the school game I
had created a long time ago (color coded cards of assignments for each
subject with options for assignments to advance 1-5 spaces) then you get a
bonus every so often and they can do things that I hate to do (painting,
clay, anything that usually makes a mess for me to clean up). Anyway, he
got it all out, threw it together, did 5 questions of the "challenge cards"
and announced that for his bonus he'd like to paint. And, I let them even
though it was already 9 PM with the condition that they clean it up so that
I would not be able to tell what had gone on. They met that requirement.
In other words, he does get around to leaps and bounds in learning, all in
his own time. I just have to be patient and remember that he is my twin. I
hate that realization but am grateful for the clarity of understanding on
which to base my judgement - when I stop to think that is.
But, back to the value of setting limits, I do not allow my kids to watch
shows that have mature themes, such as teen boyfriends and girlfriends, nor
violence nor shows that I find display outright disrespect (as well as a few
other things related to our religious beliefs). Usually they honor my
wishes but they lost the Disney Channel because they continually challenged
me with their offerings.
Do you recommend any limitations on hours of tv time or setting up a system
of earning that time. I've thought about it but honestly I don't have
enough energy to micromanage.
Salam,
Natalie
freaking out on the kids. We recently upgraded our cable service to include
Discovery Channel 1 and 2 and the Animal Planet, but of course with that
package comes Disney, Cartoon Network, and a whole slew of other pure
entertainment channels. I get out of whack when I see that my son spends
huge amounts of time on pure entertainment options.
But, of course, as life goes in cycles, today he got out the school game I
had created a long time ago (color coded cards of assignments for each
subject with options for assignments to advance 1-5 spaces) then you get a
bonus every so often and they can do things that I hate to do (painting,
clay, anything that usually makes a mess for me to clean up). Anyway, he
got it all out, threw it together, did 5 questions of the "challenge cards"
and announced that for his bonus he'd like to paint. And, I let them even
though it was already 9 PM with the condition that they clean it up so that
I would not be able to tell what had gone on. They met that requirement.
In other words, he does get around to leaps and bounds in learning, all in
his own time. I just have to be patient and remember that he is my twin. I
hate that realization but am grateful for the clarity of understanding on
which to base my judgement - when I stop to think that is.
But, back to the value of setting limits, I do not allow my kids to watch
shows that have mature themes, such as teen boyfriends and girlfriends, nor
violence nor shows that I find display outright disrespect (as well as a few
other things related to our religious beliefs). Usually they honor my
wishes but they lost the Disney Channel because they continually challenged
me with their offerings.
Do you recommend any limitations on hours of tv time or setting up a system
of earning that time. I've thought about it but honestly I don't have
enough energy to micromanage.
Salam,
Natalie
On 5/15/06, zenmomma@... <zenmomma@...> wrote:
>
> >>Talk to me more about controlling the TV time, please!>>
>
> I'm sure you'd like more of an answer than "you don't need to control it."
> <g> So it would help if you explained what it is you are concerned about.
> What is the TV situation like in your house? What's your biggest fear if you
> let your kids watch?
>
> --
> ~Mary
> http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
>
> "The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
> green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
> alive."
> ~Thich Nhat Hanh
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Natalie Komitsky" <nkomitsky@...>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Secondary school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Secondary+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=ZmtJ9eV8jDgLVf_rQitp3g> Graduate
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=_ar44lA2aVf7qUVJT2dfbA> Home
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Home+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=igfV0UPAcfSvC6KUmUYY6w> Graduate
> school education online<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graduate+school+education+online&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=OHt1qK6J19R35_4ff-oJHg> High
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=High+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=BV3EOkp5uIRJ0eqRAZQNcw> Chicago
> school education<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Chicago+school+education&w1=Secondary+school+education&w2=Graduate+school+education&w3=Home+school+education&w4=Graduate+school+education+online&w5=High+school+education&w6=Chicago+school+education&c=6&s=185&.sig=pesFSb8HMcPS2_oNEoEwuw>
> ------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> - Visit your group "unschoolingbasics<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>"
> on the web.
>
> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]<[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 5/15/06, Natalie Komitsky <nkomitsky@...> wrote:
*nothing* from "pure entertainment"? I've watched shows and movies that one
could classify as "pure entertainment" and gotten quite a bit from them.
Interpersonal communication, new thoughts on old ideas, something that
sparks my interest and has me running to google to learn more, or even
things that challenge my philosophical and spiritual side. My kids enjoy
anime, live action shows on Disney channel and Law & Order and CSI reruns.
All "pure entertainment." We have had some wonderful discussions about
racism, crime, themes from historic references, art styles, music styles,
and I can't count the number of times they have looked into some
investigation technique shown on tv to try to disprove it.
In other words, he does get around to leaps and bounds in learning, all in
has deemed as "academic" but he IS learning.
But, back to the value of setting limits, I do not allow my kids to watch
these shows with them if you have issues so that you can field any questions
or clarify where your family stands on these issues. Emily, my oldest is a
big fan of Degrassi. It has touched on some very mature themes over the
past few years (ok, since its inception with Degrassi Jr. High) My daughter
was very upset because in the US they didn't show one episode where a girl
had an abortion. There were other storylines in that episode other than
just Manny's abortion. We found the script online and talked about it. We
talked about abortion and where we stand on it and what our beliefs feel
about it and how the government views it and also why it was censored.
Another thing to consider is whether or not your children *want* to watch
shows with mature themes. Mary Elayne is 10 and still doesn't care to watch
shows that have kissing in them (not to mention sexual scenes). Even
animated kissing is not in her book for things she wants to watch.
Sometimes those things that we limit are things our children would naturally
not want to watch anyway and if they DO want to watch it, then we need to
know why and watch it with them if you feel it is something that is
questionable. There are some very healthy teen relationships being
portrayed on tv. Don't dismiss them just because they are portraying
something you aren't ready to deal with because your children may be.
Usually they honor my
"forbidden" shows. Your children seem ready to move forward and you are
fighting them to stay behind.
Do you recommend any limitations on hours of tv time or setting up a system
(which can record 2 shows at once while watching a third - you missed the
whole discussion of how much I LOVE my DVR LOL!) 2 of the tvs are in my
kids' rooms even - something I couldn't have fathomed just 5 years ago. Do
YOU have to earn television time? Can YOU watch whatever YOU want? Are you
setting controls for your children that you yourself don't follow? Are you
making tv an obstacle to joyful learning? I would suggest that you read
some of the articles here: http://sandradodd.com/tv There are some very
insightful articles on letting go of the tv control (both literally and
figuratively).
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Is there anything wrong with pure entertainment? Can you truly get
> Well, I have benefitted by just mumbling to my husband about it instead of
> freaking out on the kids. We recently upgraded our cable service to
> include
> Discovery Channel 1 and 2 and the Animal Planet, but of course with that
> package comes Disney, Cartoon Network, and a whole slew of other pure
> entertainment channels. I get out of whack when I see that my son spends
> huge amounts of time on pure entertainment options.
*nothing* from "pure entertainment"? I've watched shows and movies that one
could classify as "pure entertainment" and gotten quite a bit from them.
Interpersonal communication, new thoughts on old ideas, something that
sparks my interest and has me running to google to learn more, or even
things that challenge my philosophical and spiritual side. My kids enjoy
anime, live action shows on Disney channel and Law & Order and CSI reruns.
All "pure entertainment." We have had some wonderful discussions about
racism, crime, themes from historic references, art styles, music styles,
and I can't count the number of times they have looked into some
investigation technique shown on tv to try to disprove it.
In other words, he does get around to leaps and bounds in learning, all in
> his own time.He's learning all the time! Try to stop him. It may not be what society
has deemed as "academic" but he IS learning.
But, back to the value of setting limits, I do not allow my kids to watch
> shows that have mature themes, such as teen boyfriends and girlfriends,Why not? Understanding relationships is a very important thing. Watch
> nor
> violence nor shows that I find display outright disrespect (as well as a
> few
> other things related to our religious beliefs).
these shows with them if you have issues so that you can field any questions
or clarify where your family stands on these issues. Emily, my oldest is a
big fan of Degrassi. It has touched on some very mature themes over the
past few years (ok, since its inception with Degrassi Jr. High) My daughter
was very upset because in the US they didn't show one episode where a girl
had an abortion. There were other storylines in that episode other than
just Manny's abortion. We found the script online and talked about it. We
talked about abortion and where we stand on it and what our beliefs feel
about it and how the government views it and also why it was censored.
Another thing to consider is whether or not your children *want* to watch
shows with mature themes. Mary Elayne is 10 and still doesn't care to watch
shows that have kissing in them (not to mention sexual scenes). Even
animated kissing is not in her book for things she wants to watch.
Sometimes those things that we limit are things our children would naturally
not want to watch anyway and if they DO want to watch it, then we need to
know why and watch it with them if you feel it is something that is
questionable. There are some very healthy teen relationships being
portrayed on tv. Don't dismiss them just because they are portraying
something you aren't ready to deal with because your children may be.
Usually they honor my
> wishes but they lost the Disney Channel because they continuallyWhich is why you need to figure out what it is that draws them to
> challenged
> me with their offerings.
"forbidden" shows. Your children seem ready to move forward and you are
fighting them to stay behind.
Do you recommend any limitations on hours of tv time or setting up a system
> of earning that time.No. Not limits on television. In fact we have 3 televisions *and* a DVR
(which can record 2 shows at once while watching a third - you missed the
whole discussion of how much I LOVE my DVR LOL!) 2 of the tvs are in my
kids' rooms even - something I couldn't have fathomed just 5 years ago. Do
YOU have to earn television time? Can YOU watch whatever YOU want? Are you
setting controls for your children that you yourself don't follow? Are you
making tv an obstacle to joyful learning? I would suggest that you read
some of the articles here: http://sandradodd.com/tv There are some very
insightful articles on letting go of the tv control (both literally and
figuratively).
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 15, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Natalie Komitsky wrote:
creativity is messy and too much trouble.
*Is* that what you want?
Twenty years from now would you rather have kids who have neat houses
and an internal voice that says to their creative urges "No, too much
trouble to even try," or kids who are exuberantly creative but untidy?
Kids will be as tidy or chaotic as they end up being as adults. We
can create an environment where they experience (relative) tidiness
so they know the benefits (and downside of the time it takes). But if
tie their experience with tidy to their ability to be creative
we're stealing something hugely beneficial from them -- the freedom
to let their creativity flow -- for something temporary (tidiness).
If the goal is to have a neat house, then having kids is not a great
idea! ;-)
To help kids unfold we need to keep our own issues out of the way of
their exploration.
There are lots and lots of words written about chores and kids helping:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/ (lots of links over
on the right)
but don't "pay" for tidy with freedom to create.
you're calling attention to it with big red flags! You're saying
"This is something you can't handle." For many children -- many
*people* -- a barrier that says "you aren't capable of handling this"
creates an internal challenge of "Yes, I can!" It might not even be
something they *want* to do! But a barrier makes them want to test
themselves against it.
Use opportunties to talk about things! Try *not* to make them
opportunities to pour your beliefs into them. Use it as an
opportunity to share *why* you believe as you do but give them the
freedom to think things over and weigh them from various points of
view. If your values are good, they'll come to the same
conclusions! :-) (The process is more complex than that, but ask! We
*all* have values we dearly would love to pass onto our children. But
recognizing the more pressure we put on kids to beleive as we do, the
more they're likely to pull away from the values because they're
trying to pull away from the pressure.)
you still need to ask that question. ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> And, I let them evenYou are helping them create a connection in their minds that
> though it was already 9 PM with the condition that they clean it up
> so that
> I would not be able to tell what had gone on. They met that
> requirement.
creativity is messy and too much trouble.
*Is* that what you want?
Twenty years from now would you rather have kids who have neat houses
and an internal voice that says to their creative urges "No, too much
trouble to even try," or kids who are exuberantly creative but untidy?
Kids will be as tidy or chaotic as they end up being as adults. We
can create an environment where they experience (relative) tidiness
so they know the benefits (and downside of the time it takes). But if
tie their experience with tidy to their ability to be creative
we're stealing something hugely beneficial from them -- the freedom
to let their creativity flow -- for something temporary (tidiness).
If the goal is to have a neat house, then having kids is not a great
idea! ;-)
To help kids unfold we need to keep our own issues out of the way of
their exploration.
There are lots and lots of words written about chores and kids helping:
http://sandradodd.com/chores
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/ (lots of links over
on the right)
but don't "pay" for tidy with freedom to create.
> I do not allow my kids to watchBy standing between them and something you don't want them to have
> shows that have mature themes, such as teen boyfriends and
> girlfriends, nor
> violence nor shows that I find display outright disrespect (as well
> as a few
> other things related to our religious beliefs).
you're calling attention to it with big red flags! You're saying
"This is something you can't handle." For many children -- many
*people* -- a barrier that says "you aren't capable of handling this"
creates an internal challenge of "Yes, I can!" It might not even be
something they *want* to do! But a barrier makes them want to test
themselves against it.
Use opportunties to talk about things! Try *not* to make them
opportunities to pour your beliefs into them. Use it as an
opportunity to share *why* you believe as you do but give them the
freedom to think things over and weigh them from various points of
view. If your values are good, they'll come to the same
conclusions! :-) (The process is more complex than that, but ask! We
*all* have values we dearly would love to pass onto our children. But
recognizing the more pressure we put on kids to beleive as we do, the
more they're likely to pull away from the values because they're
trying to pull away from the pressure.)
> Do you recommend any limitations on hours of tv time or setting upDo some reading at Sandra's site and my site and come back and see if
> a system
> of earning that time.
you still need to ask that question. ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mother Earth (Tyra)
Great response, Michelle! Natalie, Michelle has told you pretty much what was told to me when I first joined this group because TV was big issue for me, too. However, I decided to just experiment with the info that was given to me and see what happened. We had just gotten expanded cable when we joined so many of the stations were like a huge candy store for my son. He watched and watched and watched. I told him the one channel that I did not want him to watch unsupervised was Cartoon Network. He is only 5 and I have seen some disturbing (in my opinion) cartoons on that Channel. My guy totally rejected our tried and true PBS and went full speed ahead into Disney. Then he found Nick and it was back and forth all day. This lasted for months. I said nothing although I was going crazy some days. Then one day none of it seemed to be a big deal except for Cartoon Network. I realized that during the day Cartoon Network did not show the more "adult" programming so I told him to have at it. My man watched and watched and watched Cartoon Network. Now, it gets boring to him sometimes. Because there are no limits, he can take it or leave it. And what I have actually found is that he has learned the line ups and it fascinates me. He will let me know that it is Monday so there is a Disney Channel movie or he will have me record a particular show at a certain time and he will let me know the shows name and time. I have even showed him how to record the cartoons while editing out the commercials. It has all become really fascinating and......VERY PEACEFUL! Many days he will come to me and say, "let's do an activity." When I was limiting TV and insisting that we do a special activity, my little guy was not happy and would not participate.
I say all of this to encourage you to just consider that maybe what is offered here is an option that can really work for you and yours. I don't mind my son at age 5 seeing teen kissing on Disney Channel. I think it is normal and natural and I feel that it takes away the mysticism which could make him more curious than is necessary.
My 2 cents! Wishing you and yours much success!
Namaste
Tyra
I say all of this to encourage you to just consider that maybe what is offered here is an option that can really work for you and yours. I don't mind my son at age 5 seeing teen kissing on Disney Channel. I think it is normal and natural and I feel that it takes away the mysticism which could make him more curious than is necessary.
My 2 cents! Wishing you and yours much success!
Namaste
Tyra
----- Original Message -----
From: Pampered Chef Michelle
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] sometimes his passions make me nervous
On 5/15/06, Natalie Komitsky <nkomitsky@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I have benefitted by just mumbling to my husband about it instead of
> freaking out on the kids. We recently upgraded our cable service to
> include
> Discovery Channel 1 and 2 and the Animal Planet, but of course with that
> package comes Disney, Cartoon Network, and a whole slew of other pure
> entertainment channels. I get out of whack when I see that my son spends
> huge amounts of time on pure entertainment options.
Is there anything wrong with pure entertainment? Can you truly get
*nothing* from "pure entertainment"? I've watched shows and movies that one
could classify as "pure entertainment" and gotten quite a bit from them.
Interpersonal communication, new thoughts on old ideas, something that
sparks my interest and has me running to google to learn more, or even
things that challenge my philosophical and spiritual side. My kids enjoy
anime, live action shows on Disney channel and Law & Order and CSI reruns.
All "pure entertainment." We have had some wonderful discussions about
racism, crime, themes from historic references, art styles, music styles,
and I can't count the number of times they have looked into some
investigation technique shown on tv to try to disprove it.
In other words, he does get around to leaps and bounds in learning, all in
> his own time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April Morris
How do you define "pure entertainment"? According to whom? My husband
loves the history channel....to him it is entertainment. To him, it's fun
and entertaining. He doesn't watch it because he wants to learn anything, he
watches it because he enjoys it.I can take it or leave it. I don't 'learn'
as much as he does from them because I don't particularly like the format.
Occasionally something is on I find enjoyable, but not usually. I love to
watch sci fi. Pure entertainment......and yet, I find it fascinating how sci
fi shows (past and present) take current issues and politics, place them in
a future or off-world setting and go with it. Watch old Star Trek episodes
and you can 'learn' a lot about the social issue of the 60s and the 70s. My
boys and I have had great discussions about race relations from some Star
Trek Deep Space Nine episodes) That's not why I watch them, but I enjoy that
about them. Old movies and tv shows can do the same thing. My 10 year old
had a blast a few weeks ago watching a pbs show, Texas Ranch House. He loved
it! He thought of it as pure entertainment. We all discovered a lot about
cowboys we never knew and talked a lot about the dynamics between men and
women, blacks and whites, rich and poor. It doesn't occur to him to
differentiate pbs from the cartoon channels. He watches what strikes his
interest. We have no rules or regulations about tv. They watch cartoons,
anime, tech channels, pbs, sci fi, discovery, cooking, tlc, we all love the
csi, law and order and those kind of shows, and who knows what else. Choices
are made based on what is interesting and, yes, entertaining to whoever is
choosing. And yet, the kids don't watch all that much tv. I watch more than
anyone else in the house. I like it for 'background noise'. I have my
kitchen tv on most of the day (well, when we're actually home).
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
loves the history channel....to him it is entertainment. To him, it's fun
and entertaining. He doesn't watch it because he wants to learn anything, he
watches it because he enjoys it.I can take it or leave it. I don't 'learn'
as much as he does from them because I don't particularly like the format.
Occasionally something is on I find enjoyable, but not usually. I love to
watch sci fi. Pure entertainment......and yet, I find it fascinating how sci
fi shows (past and present) take current issues and politics, place them in
a future or off-world setting and go with it. Watch old Star Trek episodes
and you can 'learn' a lot about the social issue of the 60s and the 70s. My
boys and I have had great discussions about race relations from some Star
Trek Deep Space Nine episodes) That's not why I watch them, but I enjoy that
about them. Old movies and tv shows can do the same thing. My 10 year old
had a blast a few weeks ago watching a pbs show, Texas Ranch House. He loved
it! He thought of it as pure entertainment. We all discovered a lot about
cowboys we never knew and talked a lot about the dynamics between men and
women, blacks and whites, rich and poor. It doesn't occur to him to
differentiate pbs from the cartoon channels. He watches what strikes his
interest. We have no rules or regulations about tv. They watch cartoons,
anime, tech channels, pbs, sci fi, discovery, cooking, tlc, we all love the
csi, law and order and those kind of shows, and who knows what else. Choices
are made based on what is interesting and, yes, entertaining to whoever is
choosing. And yet, the kids don't watch all that much tv. I watch more than
anyone else in the house. I like it for 'background noise'. I have my
kitchen tv on most of the day (well, when we're actually home).
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 5/16/06, Mother Earth (Tyra) <motherspirit@...> wrote:
>
> Great response, Michelle! Natalie, Michelle has told you pretty much what
> was told to me when I first joined this group because TV was big issue for
> me, too. However, I decided to just experiment with the info that was given
> to me and see what happened. We had just gotten expanded cable when we
> joined so many of the stations were like a huge candy store for my son. He
> watched and watched and watched. I told him the one channel that I did not
> want him to watch unsupervised was Cartoon Network. He is only 5 and I have
> seen some disturbing (in my opinion) cartoons on that Channel. My guy
> totally rejected our tried and true PBS and went full speed ahead into
> Disney. Then he found Nick and it was back and forth all day. This lasted
> for months. I said nothing although I was going crazy some days. Then one
> day none of it seemed to be a big deal except for Cartoon Network. I
> realized that during the day Cartoon Network did not show the more "adult"
> programming so I told him to have at it. My man watched and watched and
> watched Cartoon Network. Now, it gets boring to him sometimes. Because
> there are no limits, he can take it or leave it. And what I have actually
> found is that he has learned the line ups and it fascinates me. He will let
> me know that it is Monday so there is a Disney Channel movie or he will have
> me record a particular show at a certain time and he will let me know the
> shows name and time. I have even showed him how to record the cartoons
> while editing out the commercials. It has all become really fascinating
> and......VERY PEACEFUL! Many days he will come to me and say, "let's do an
> activity." When I was limiting TV and insisting that we do a special
> activity, my little guy was not happy and would not participate.
>
> I say all of this to encourage you to just consider that maybe what is
> offered here is an option that can really work for you and yours. I don't
> mind my son at age 5 seeing teen kissing on Disney Channel. I think it is
> normal and natural and I feel that it takes away the mysticism which could
> make him more curious than is necessary.
>
> My 2 cents! Wishing you and yours much success!
>
> Namaste
> Tyra
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Pampered Chef Michelle
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] sometimes his passions make me nervous
>
>
> On 5/15/06, Natalie Komitsky <nkomitsky@...> wrote:
> >
> > Well, I have benefitted by just mumbling to my husband about it instead
> of
> > freaking out on the kids. We recently upgraded our cable service to
> > include
> > Discovery Channel 1 and 2 and the Animal Planet, but of course with that
> > package comes Disney, Cartoon Network, and a whole slew of other pure
> > entertainment channels. I get out of whack when I see that my son
> spends
> > huge amounts of time on pure entertainment options.
>
>
> Is there anything wrong with pure entertainment? Can you truly get
> *nothing* from "pure entertainment"? I've watched shows and movies that
> one
> could classify as "pure entertainment" and gotten quite a bit from them.
> Interpersonal communication, new thoughts on old ideas, something that
> sparks my interest and has me running to google to learn more, or even
> things that challenge my philosophical and spiritual side. My kids enjoy
> anime, live action shows on Disney channel and Law & Order and CSI reruns.
> All "pure entertainment." We have had some wonderful discussions about
> racism, crime, themes from historic references, art styles, music styles,
> and I can't count the number of times they have looked into some
> investigation technique shown on tv to try to disprove it.
>
> In other words, he does get around to leaps and bounds in learning, all in
> > his own time.
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
--- In [email protected], "Pampered Chef Michelle"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
commercials? (Sometimes my dh and I try to trick the other into
pressing ff... doesn't do any good on live tv, sigh.) We used to have
3 vcrs, but are currently down to one vcr, one dvr and one dvd
player. We rarely watch things live anymore.
Linda
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>missed the
> In fact we have 3 televisions *and* a DVR
> (which can record 2 shows at once while watching a third - you
> whole discussion of how much I LOVE my DVR LOL!) >Do you ever watch something live, and feel like fast-forwarding
> --
commercials? (Sometimes my dh and I try to trick the other into
pressing ff... doesn't do any good on live tv, sigh.) We used to have
3 vcrs, but are currently down to one vcr, one dvr and one dvd
player. We rarely watch things live anymore.
Linda
Deb Lewis
***I get out of whack when I see that my son spends
huge amounts of time on pure entertainment options.***
Not sure what "pure" entertainment is but I'm all for it! : ) I've
never been so entertained that my mind switched off - is that what you
meant?
I've been so entertained by so many things in my life and I've made
deliberate choices to make sure my son has been entertained over the
years. He just turned fourteen and if I could somehow ensure that he was
always entertained I'd do it in a heartbeat!<g>
We went to a Cinco de Mayo party of the fifth of May (Ha! Who'd have
guessed?<snort>) and it was wildly entertaining. We had a cookout on
Mother's day and invited family and friends and it was all about
entertainment (with lots of food.)
I own a much used and beloved copy of The Princess Bride just so I can be
delightfully entertained anytime I want.
But what about entertainment might get a person "out of whack? " Is fun
for the sake of fun a sin? I think our early Puritan settlers are
sending their uptight vibes to us even today. <g> That seems like
witchcraft to me...
We recently played Buzzword and had so much fun. With a big group of
people you have folks yelling out answers when it's not even their turn.
I laughed so hard my stomach still hurts. But, I learned stuff, so was
it "pure" entertainment or was it something else? And I learned from
watching The Princess Bride. My niece even took a trip to the cliffs of
Moher when she realized they were a real place. She learned a lot on
that trip.
My son has learned so much from watching "pure entertainment." He is
very interested in movie making and when he watches a movie he's paying
attention to the lighting, the camera angles, the direction, the dialog,
the set design, the costuming, the musical score...
He's learned about comedic timing, line delivery, melodrama, puns,
sarcasm (maybe he learned a little about that from his family, too)
foreshadowing, suspense building. He's learned about movie budgets.
He's learned and learning about screen writing. He's learned about the
struggles of film makers to get their movies made.
He's seen every Stanley Kubrick film and every film we could find by
other directors he likes. ( He can tell you about camera shots in any
scene you can name in hundreds of movies. Hundreds. He's been working
for two years on his own claymation film. He and his cousins are talking
about making a B movie spoof this summer in the spirit of "The Lost
Skeleton of Cadavra."
I can't even begin to list everything he's learned from "entertainment."
We recently got the film "Eraserhead" on interlibrary loan. He learned
about "Eraserhead" from a documentary on midnight movies. He's been
systematically watching those old films when he can find them. Some have
been easy to find, like "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." (his mom owns a
copy<g>) Some are difficult, like "Pink Flamingos." (weird film!) He's
watched "Eraserhead" twice (so far) and he looked it up on-line and read
reviews and read ideas other people have about what the film means.
He's found interviews with David Lynch about the film. He learned that
some bands took their names and others took inspiration for lyrics from
that film. And he learned maybe the funniest thing of all about this
film he watched for "entertainment"... It's been added to the national
film registry after it was selected as "culturally significant" by the
Library of Congress.
Unschoolers: On the cutting edge of cultural education. <BEG> (well,
I'm amused though I doubt E.d. Hirsch would be...)
Of course, other David Lynch films are now on order through interlibrary
loan and the Twin Peaks TV series is on it's way from Amazon. <g>
Dylan's already seen Blue Velvet. And he's made countless connections
from that film and the actors to other films.
Here are two links to follow to other ideas about TV and movies.
http://sandradodd.com/tv
http://sandradodd.com/movies
If it is possible for something to be "pure entertainment" I think
that's wonderful. I think being entertained is very important. I think
joy will get us over the bumps of life like nothing else. But I think
there is no moment when humans aren't learning. If we're breathing,
we're gathering information we will use in the next moments or in the
next days or weeks or months or years. It all matters.
Deb Lewis
huge amounts of time on pure entertainment options.***
Not sure what "pure" entertainment is but I'm all for it! : ) I've
never been so entertained that my mind switched off - is that what you
meant?
I've been so entertained by so many things in my life and I've made
deliberate choices to make sure my son has been entertained over the
years. He just turned fourteen and if I could somehow ensure that he was
always entertained I'd do it in a heartbeat!<g>
We went to a Cinco de Mayo party of the fifth of May (Ha! Who'd have
guessed?<snort>) and it was wildly entertaining. We had a cookout on
Mother's day and invited family and friends and it was all about
entertainment (with lots of food.)
I own a much used and beloved copy of The Princess Bride just so I can be
delightfully entertained anytime I want.
But what about entertainment might get a person "out of whack? " Is fun
for the sake of fun a sin? I think our early Puritan settlers are
sending their uptight vibes to us even today. <g> That seems like
witchcraft to me...
We recently played Buzzword and had so much fun. With a big group of
people you have folks yelling out answers when it's not even their turn.
I laughed so hard my stomach still hurts. But, I learned stuff, so was
it "pure" entertainment or was it something else? And I learned from
watching The Princess Bride. My niece even took a trip to the cliffs of
Moher when she realized they were a real place. She learned a lot on
that trip.
My son has learned so much from watching "pure entertainment." He is
very interested in movie making and when he watches a movie he's paying
attention to the lighting, the camera angles, the direction, the dialog,
the set design, the costuming, the musical score...
He's learned about comedic timing, line delivery, melodrama, puns,
sarcasm (maybe he learned a little about that from his family, too)
foreshadowing, suspense building. He's learned about movie budgets.
He's learned and learning about screen writing. He's learned about the
struggles of film makers to get their movies made.
He's seen every Stanley Kubrick film and every film we could find by
other directors he likes. ( He can tell you about camera shots in any
scene you can name in hundreds of movies. Hundreds. He's been working
for two years on his own claymation film. He and his cousins are talking
about making a B movie spoof this summer in the spirit of "The Lost
Skeleton of Cadavra."
I can't even begin to list everything he's learned from "entertainment."
We recently got the film "Eraserhead" on interlibrary loan. He learned
about "Eraserhead" from a documentary on midnight movies. He's been
systematically watching those old films when he can find them. Some have
been easy to find, like "The Rocky Horror Picture Show." (his mom owns a
copy<g>) Some are difficult, like "Pink Flamingos." (weird film!) He's
watched "Eraserhead" twice (so far) and he looked it up on-line and read
reviews and read ideas other people have about what the film means.
He's found interviews with David Lynch about the film. He learned that
some bands took their names and others took inspiration for lyrics from
that film. And he learned maybe the funniest thing of all about this
film he watched for "entertainment"... It's been added to the national
film registry after it was selected as "culturally significant" by the
Library of Congress.
Unschoolers: On the cutting edge of cultural education. <BEG> (well,
I'm amused though I doubt E.d. Hirsch would be...)
Of course, other David Lynch films are now on order through interlibrary
loan and the Twin Peaks TV series is on it's way from Amazon. <g>
Dylan's already seen Blue Velvet. And he's made countless connections
from that film and the actors to other films.
Here are two links to follow to other ideas about TV and movies.
http://sandradodd.com/tv
http://sandradodd.com/movies
If it is possible for something to be "pure entertainment" I think
that's wonderful. I think being entertained is very important. I think
joy will get us over the bumps of life like nothing else. But I think
there is no moment when humans aren't learning. If we're breathing,
we're gathering information we will use in the next moments or in the
next days or weeks or months or years. It all matters.
Deb Lewis
Melissa
Joyce, I wanted to add one of my most shamed moments...the girls and
I were sitting at the table talking and laughing, and Emily said
something about being a grownup. I was joking around and asked if she
wanted to have a big family like us, and she said sure. Rachel,
however, got a very serious look on her face and said that she was
never having children. When I asked why, she replied "I don't want to
clean all the time, when you're a parent, all you do is clean up
after kids." Wow. Talk about a heart blow. I have unconsciously
trained my children to associate having children to having to clean
ALL the time because I was always tidying up after them, always
worried about a mess. It definitely added to my impetus to change our
lives.
If in the long run she chooses not to have children, then I want it
to be something her heart really wants, not some kind of concern that
I've implanted through my worries for a clean house.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
I were sitting at the table talking and laughing, and Emily said
something about being a grownup. I was joking around and asked if she
wanted to have a big family like us, and she said sure. Rachel,
however, got a very serious look on her face and said that she was
never having children. When I asked why, she replied "I don't want to
clean all the time, when you're a parent, all you do is clean up
after kids." Wow. Talk about a heart blow. I have unconsciously
trained my children to associate having children to having to clean
ALL the time because I was always tidying up after them, always
worried about a mess. It definitely added to my impetus to change our
lives.
If in the long run she chooses not to have children, then I want it
to be something her heart really wants, not some kind of concern that
I've implanted through my worries for a clean house.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On May 16, 2006, at 5:49 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
> Twenty years from now would you rather have kids who have neat houses
> and an internal voice that says to their creative urges "No, too much
> trouble to even try," or kids who are exuberantly creative but untidy?
>
> Kids will be as tidy or chaotic as they end up being as adults. We
> can create an environment where they experience (relative) tidiness
> so they know the benefits (and downside of the time it takes). But if
> tie their experience with tidy to their ability to be creative
> we're stealing something hugely beneficial from them -- the freedom
> to let their creativity flow -- for something temporary (tidiness).
>
> If the goal is to have a neat house, then having kids is not a great
> idea! ;-)
Paige
> If it is possible for something to be "pure entertainment" I thinkthink
> that's wonderful. I think being entertained is very important. I
> joy will get us over the bumps of life like nothing else. But Ithink
> there is no moment when humans aren't learning. If we're breathing,WOW! I'm printing that out and hanging it on my wall! Nothing like
> we're gathering information we will use in the next moments or in the
> next days or weeks or months or years. It all matters.
>
> Deb Lewis
being reminded a little sometimes. :)
This reminds me of a happening the other day...I have been
watching "Gilligan's Island" a lot, we bought the series and have
watched it through SO many times. The Skipper mentions being at
Guadalcanal (sp?)...I don't remember hearing about it before, but when
I saw it again I remembered. I was helping my little brother with his
homework and there it was! I read about it...a dreadfully long
battle, I'm thinking 8 months or something like...no wonder the
Skipper remembered it so well! I had the Skipper's experiences to
connect the knowledge in his book to...unfortunately, he didn't and
failed the test. I was watching the shows for "pure entertainment",
but they helped me make a connection later...sometimes it's not what
you are doing "right now" that matters, it's how it connects later.
Paige
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/16/2006 11:17:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
whole discussion of how much I LOVE my DVR LOL!) >
commercials? (Sometimes my dh and I try to trick the other into
pressing ff... doesn't do any good on live tv, sigh.) We used to have
3 vcrs, but are currently down to one vcr, one dvr and one dvd
player. We rarely watch things live anymore.
********************
Oh, it's even scarier when you've been playing the Sims and watching Tivo,
and start wanting to ff through boring things in LIFE! I was at a meeting the
other day....
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference, Memorial Day Weekend, May
26-28, 2006 in Peabody, Massachusetts! www.NortheastUnschoolingConference.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
whole discussion of how much I LOVE my DVR LOL!) >
> --Do you ever watch something live, and feel like fast-forwarding
commercials? (Sometimes my dh and I try to trick the other into
pressing ff... doesn't do any good on live tv, sigh.) We used to have
3 vcrs, but are currently down to one vcr, one dvr and one dvd
player. We rarely watch things live anymore.
********************
Oh, it's even scarier when you've been playing the Sims and watching Tivo,
and start wanting to ff through boring things in LIFE! I was at a meeting the
other day....
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference, Memorial Day Weekend, May
26-28, 2006 in Peabody, Massachusetts! www.NortheastUnschoolingConference.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: KathrynJB@...
Do you ever watch something live, and feel like fast-forwarding
commercials? (Sometimes my dh and I try to trick the other into
pressing ff... doesn't do any good on live tv, sigh.)
********************
Oh, it's even scarier when you've been playing the Sims and watching
Tivo,
and start wanting to ff through boring things in LIFE! I was at a
meeting the
other day....
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I get it with the radio! I miss something and am so used to rewinding
with TiVo...
I need TiVo for my radio! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi
From: KathrynJB@...
Do you ever watch something live, and feel like fast-forwarding
commercials? (Sometimes my dh and I try to trick the other into
pressing ff... doesn't do any good on live tv, sigh.)
********************
Oh, it's even scarier when you've been playing the Sims and watching
Tivo,
and start wanting to ff through boring things in LIFE! I was at a
meeting the
other day....
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I get it with the radio! I miss something and am so used to rewinding
with TiVo...
I need TiVo for my radio! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi
[email protected]
>>But, of course, as life goes in cycles, today he got out the school game I had created a long time ago...<snip> In other words, he does get around to leaps and bounds in learning, all in his own time. >>
It sounds like you place a lot of importance on playing school like this. It might help to try to focus on seeing the learning that happens outside of schoolish subjects.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Natalie Komitsky" <nkomitsky@...>